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You are here: Home / Books / Watching the Detectives

Watching the Detectives

by $8 blue check mistermix|  July 31, 20119:23 am| 68 Comments

This post is in: Books

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Brian Oliver at the Guardian has an interesting piece about Norwegian authors whose protagonists face neo-Nazi hate groups in their fiction, starting with Norwegian Jo Nesbø’s The Redbreast. Oliver concentrates on Norwegian authors, but also mentions Swedes like Henning Mankell, who wove far-right extremism into Return of the Dancing Master, as well as some of his Wallander books.

Oliver mentions other Norwegians like Karin Fossum, KO Dahl and Gunnar Staalesen. The only one I’ve read is Nesbø, whose Harry Hole is a morose and conflicted alcoholic, and an interesting protagonist, like Mankell’s Wallander. Maybe some of you have read the others and can offer an evaluation in the comments.

Scandinavian detective fiction is interesting because it deals with broader social issues, and if you’ve been reading it, the notion that a right wing extremist would do something violent in those countries isn’t much of a surprise.

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68Comments

  1. 1.

    Irving

    July 31, 2011 at 9:29 am

    I’d be a little hesitant to draw too many lessons from popular Norwegian fiction. Anyone who though that Tom Clancy and Ken Follett books represented actual America would, um, be a tea partier. I think pop fiction says a lot more about what a society thinks it is rather than what it is.

  2. 2.

    aimai

    July 31, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Right wing violence and hatred of women as well as police incompetence and corruption are central parts of Steig Larrsson’s “Girl” series. Breivik had some really vicious anti woman stuff in his screed and clearly had a Men’s Rights Activist/ “Nice Guy” sense that if women were going to be allowing themselves to determine who they have sex with, and possibly having sex with racial outsiders, they all deserved to be killed.

    aimai

  3. 3.

    mistermix

    July 31, 2011 at 9:43 am

    @aimai: Yep, that’s another good example.

    @Irving: Are you saying that Scandinavian society is actually more dull and depressing than those novelists portray it to be? Yikes.

  4. 4.

    Proudhon

    July 31, 2011 at 9:46 am

    You might want to add to your list the Swedish writing partners Maj Sjowall and Per Wahloo, who wrote a series of police procedurals starring Detective Martin Beck. These were written in the 60s and 70s and the backdrop of a changing Swedish society is never far from our notice. All are in print.

  5. 5.

    nickrud

    July 31, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Someone beat me to recommending the martin beck novels but I had to chime in anyway. I read them back in the 70’s (for the first time) and still mourn for what might have been if Wahloo hadn’t died.

  6. 6.

    Mike in NC

    July 31, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Harry Hole is a morose and conflicted alcoholic

    Does he like to play golf and frequent tanning parlors?

  7. 7.

    beltane

    July 31, 2011 at 10:07 am

    I’ll have to check out these authors. I used to think of Scandinavia as rather boring, but I guess they are just as crazy as everyone else.

  8. 8.

    Jinxtigr

    July 31, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Yes! Sjowall and Wahloo are amazing. Like the best American police procedurals, and totally unlike the worst Tom Clancy, they show a clear view of both sides of the equation. In some ways the Martin Beck stuff is even better than American stuff like McBain, because they’re showing a fully realized picture of good and bad within the police itself, before they even get to the criminals and degenerates.

    It’s extraordinary, brilliant stuff and SPECIFICALLY studies what it’s like when a police system turns into an abusive police state, and what it looks like from inside the police when that happens. I’m not sure that was their primary intent but it’s clearly a fundamental theme.

    The way it’s described, you understand how the system can break down, until it’s just as possible for the Norwegian political soldier executioner guy to have BEEN a rogue policeman. These are the mechanisms by which you get a state that turns against a subclass and has pogroms. The Norway mass murderer is symptomatic, evidence the condition exists.

  9. 9.

    WereBear

    July 31, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Always been a fan of Scandinavian mysteries! While it is popular fiction, the best is just as concerned with societal trends as “serious” stuff; in fact, it cuts to the chase.

    Pressures that result in mayhem & murder are quickly illuminating.

  10. 10.

    Loneoak

    July 31, 2011 at 10:30 am

    OT, but this is fun: Bill Nye smacking around Fox News moran for completely getting climate change wrong.

  11. 11.

    jefft452

    July 31, 2011 at 10:34 am

    “I think pop fiction says a lot more about what a society thinks it is rather than what it is”

    True
    But doesn’t knowing what a society thinks it is tell you a lot about what it is?

  12. 12.

    fourmorewars

    July 31, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Kind of lol’ing at the reply ‘That’s another good example.’ I mean, I’ve got no idea how superior the authors in the main post are (or are not) to Larson, but might not one expect his name to get bumped up into the main post, seeing as how he’s the only one here currently having his books made into blockbuster movies? I dunno. Anyway, Amy Goodman had his life partner on for a lengthy interview Friday. His touching on the issue of rw extremists, as it happens, apparently went so far as to affect their decision to remain unmarried all these years, she said, out of safety concerns (they used her relative anonymity to let him conduct his financial affairs through her).

  13. 13.

    Steeplejack

    July 31, 2011 at 10:42 am

    I recently read all of Håkan Nesser’s Inspector Van Veeteren novels and highly recommend them: Mind’s Eye, Borkmann’s Point, The Return, Woman with Birthmark and, just out in hardback, The Inspector and Silence.

    Nesser is Swedish, but the Van Veeteren books are set in a country that is never named, and all of the place-names are made up. But they sound Dutch-Swedish-German-Polish, and, with the geography described, the country is definitely a northern European socialist hellhole.

    Van Veeteren is in his mid-50s, crusty but not predictably so, with an active, engaging mind that you like following around. Nesser’s focus is more on psychology than sociology. The plots are pretty tight but not showy, and the characters are excellent. And there’s a nice strain of wry humor that runs through things.

    Reinhart sat down opposite the chief inspector and stirred his coffee slowly.
    __
    “It feels a bit worrying,” he said.
    __
    Van Veeteren nodded.
    __
    “Do you think there’ll be more?”
    __
    “Yes.”
    __
    “So do I.”
    __
    They sat in silence for a while.
    __
    “It might be just as well,” said Reinhart. “We’ll never solve it otherwise.”
    __
    Van Veeteren said nothing. Rubbed his nose with a paper tissue, breathing heavily. Rooth came to join them, carrying an overloaded tray.
    __
    “What’s preferable?” Reinhart continued. “Two victims and a murderer who gets away with it? Or three victims and a murderer who gets caught?”
    __
    “Or four?” said Van Veeteren. “Or five? There always has to be a limit.”
    __
    “Or at least one has to be imposed,” said Reinhart. “That’s not quite the same thing.”
    __
    “It would be best if there weren’t any victims at all,” interposed Rooth. “And no murderer, either.”
    __
    “Utopia,” Reinhart snorted. “We deal with reality.”
    __
    “Oh, that,” said Rooth.

    Detective Reinhart in bed with his girlfriend, the Englishwoman Winnifred Lynch:

    “Why did you become a policeman?” she asked as they lay back in bed afterward. “You promised you’d tell me one day.”
    __
    “It’s a trauma,” he said after a moment’s thought.
    __
    “I’m human, you know,” she said.
    __
    “What do you mean by that?”
    __
    She didn’t answer, but after a while he imagined that he understood.
    __
    “All right,” he said. “It was a woman. Or a girl. Twenty years old.”
    __
    “What happened?”
    __
    He hesitated, and inhaled deeply twice on his cigarette before answering.
    __
    “I was twenty-one. Reading philosophy and anthropology at the university, as you know. We’d been together for two years. We were going to get married. She was reading languages. One night she was going home after a lecture and was stabbed by a lunatic in Wollerim’s Park. She died in the hospital before I got there. It took the police six months to find her killer. I was one of them by that time.”
    __
    If she has the good sense to say nothing, I want to spend the rest of my life with her, he thought out of the blue.
    __
    Winnifred Lynch put her hand on his chest. Stroked him gently for a few seconds, then got up and went to the bathroom.
    __
    That does it, then, Reinhart acknowledged in surprise.

  14. 14.

    Norwonk

    July 31, 2011 at 10:46 am

    The thing you need to keep in mind about Scandinavian writers is that the majority of them belong to the far left. And I’m not talking American “far left” here, I’m talking actual communism. In the 70’s most of them were pretty pathetic in their eagerness to embrace Mao and Pol Pot. So their obsession with secret Neo-Nazis taking over the government is less a reflection of Scandinavian reality than a sign that they needed an excuse to champion armed revolution against democratic governments. The vision of secret fascists taking over the government from within became a staple in their fiction. It’s sort of the “Dolschtoss legend” of the Scandinavian far left.

    That’s not to say that right-wing extremists don’t exist — Breivik has proven that they do. But you should take these thrillers with a grain of salt. The average Norwegian Neo-Nazi is a skinhead loser who is more likely to engage in drunken hooliganism than terrorism.

  15. 15.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 10:46 am

    @aimai: that is right, Breivik killed “the most beautiful girl” first.

    On killing girls and women:
    __
    Every female category A, B, C traitor or system protector out there is someone’s daughter, someone’s sister or mother. But then again, so are the victims of the current systems, f example the girl who committed suicide after being gang-raped by Muslims.
    War isn’t pretty. It never has been. It is essential to know that approximately 60-70% of all cultural Marxists or suicidal humanist are female and up to 20% of police officers and military personnel (system protectors). Being a Justiciar Knight will involve killing our targets, or any system protector trying to stop us, indiscriminately. You will face women in battle and they will not hesitate to kill you. To them, you are just another armed criminal nut case as they will not know your true political agenda until after you have been slain or are apprehended. If you hesitate as much as a second due to the fact that your opponent is female you will fail. You must therefore embrace and familiarise yourself with the concept of killing women, even very attractive women.
    __
    Breivik killed the “most beautiful girl” first.

    Johan Galtung’s teenaged daughter was on Utoya….but she survived.
    She is the girl that lived.

  16. 16.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Have you guys ever heard of Galtung’s Peace and Conflict Doctrine?

    didn’t think so.

  17. 17.

    SBJules

    July 31, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Yes! Sjowall and Wahloo are amazing. I agree! They are my favorites of the Scandinavian genre. I have not read Steig Larrsson; I’m probably the only mystery reader in the US who hasn’t. However, I did read that he kept his location very secret because of right wing threats on his life. I thought that was odd at the time.

  18. 18.

    TheMightyTrowel

    July 31, 2011 at 10:55 am

    @Loneoak: The best bit of that had to be, not just the look on Bill Nye’s face when Fox News Dude is all ‘volcanoes mean fossil fuel was burning on the moon so climate change is false’* but the way he immediately scaled back from talking about big existentialist questions, put on the talking-to-stupid-children voice and explained that moon cools quicker than the earth like a cup cake cools quicker than a big cake.

    *This really was his argument.

  19. 19.

    The Raven

    July 31, 2011 at 11:00 am

    The main work of Stieg Larsson, author of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and its sequels, was not writing but anti-fascism. Amy Goodman interview with his long-time partner, Eva Gabrielsson, post.

  20. 20.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:00 am

    @Norwonk: that is quite simply false.
    Have you read the Girl with the Dragon Tatoo series?
    neo-nazis were a real force in sweden in the past.
    At on point in Hornet’s Nest the protagonists question how the Section was able to conceal its machinations from the world.
    the statement is

    well, we didnt have a socialist government back then.

    Larsson was definitely a socialist.

    Gabrielsson apparently produced a will Larsson had written back in 1977, but there were no witnesses to it, so it was not binding under Swedish law. This will, had it been legal, would have left all of Larsson’s assets to the Socialist Party in Sweden.

  21. 21.

    Alex S.

    July 31, 2011 at 11:02 am

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    How can he understand fossil fuels if he doesn’t believe in fossils?

  22. 22.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:03 am

    oops moderation

    @Norwonk: that is quite simply false.
    Have you read the Girl with the Dragon Tatoo series?
    neo-nazis were a real force in sweden in the past.
    At one point in Hornet’s Nest the protagonists marvel about how the Section was able to conceal its machinations from the world.
    the statement is

    well, we didnt have a social1st government back then.

    Larsson was definitely a social1st.

    Gabrielsson apparently produced a will Larsson had written back in 1977, but there were no witnesses to it, so it was not binding under Swedish law. This will, had it been legal, would have left all of Larsson’s assets to the Social1st Party in Sweden.

  23. 23.

    The Raven

    July 31, 2011 at 11:03 am

    The average Norwegian Neo-Nazi is a skinhead loser who is more likely to engage in drunken hooliganism than terrorism.

    And if you put together enough of them, you have a Tea Party.

  24. 24.

    Norwonk

    July 31, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I’ve often wondered why Stieg Larsson has become so popular. As far as I’m concern, he is by far the weakest of the Scandinavian writers mentioned here. He was apparently a good reporter, but his writing is awful. The plots are far-fetched as well, with a heroine who is more superhero than human. And while the first book of the trilogy has a pretty good murder mystery as its centre, the last quarter is just Larsson having a reporter’s wet dream. He badly needed a strict editor.

  25. 25.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:05 am

    @The Raven: trumped your quote, corvid.
    wanna play again?

  26. 26.

    TheMightyTrowel

    July 31, 2011 at 11:08 am

    @Norwonk: I always had problems with the sheer amount of sexual assault in Larsson’s books – i never finished the second and haven’t read the third. I know he meant to be provocative and it was supposed to be in part of revenge fantasy for all violated women, but in a lot of places it felt incredibly exploitative and squicked me out enough to stop me reading/enjoying.

  27. 27.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:11 am

    @Norwonk:

    He was apparently a good reporter, but his writing is awful.

    LOL
    are you a teabagger?

  28. 28.

    Norwonk

    July 31, 2011 at 11:12 am

    @Samara Morgan:

    It’s true that Sweden has a larger and more active neo-Nazi community. I suspect it’s because they, unlike the other Scandinavian countries, didn’t take part in WWII. In Norway, the Nazis became discredited by traitors like Quisling. There’s seems to be a continuity in Swedish fascism which doesn’t exist in my country. Still, we’re hardly talking about a powerful political faction here.

    And no, I’m not a teabagger. Are they known for their love of fine writing?

  29. 29.

    Steeplejack

    July 31, 2011 at 11:16 am

    I liked Henning Mankell’s early Wallander novels (Faceless Killers, The Dogs of Riga), but with The White Lioness his tendency to preachiness really started to jangle. The books are still pretty good, but be prepared for Mankell to keep beating you over the head with his “ripped from the headlines” social issues. That can get a little tiresome.

    I note that the original Swedish Wallander films (not the Kenneth Branagh ones) are now available on DVD and are pretty good.

    I recently read Mankell’s non-Wallander book The Man from Beijing, and it is a Tom Clancy potboiler. ZOMG! The Chinese are going to defuse societal pressure and colonize Africa with their millions of extra peasants! Give me a break.

    Karin Fossum’s Inspector Sejer books are quite good and manage to work in some social issues with a much lighter touch. Don’t Look Back, He Who Fears the Wolf and When the Devil Holds the Candle are the first three.

    I haven’t read any of Jo Nesbø’s books, although The Redbreast is in the queue and getting close to the top.

    I will also put in a word for Peter Høeg’s Smilla’s Sense of Snow (1992), a Danish novel that touches on issues of colonialism with Greenland. Nice icy noir, deftly written. I happened to think of it because a week or so ago I rewatched Bille August’s good movie version with Julia Ormond and Gabriel Byrne. That’s recommended too. Watch a trailer here.

  30. 30.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:17 am

    Do you juicers even have have enough self-realization to understand why you hate me?

    i won’t let you pretend.

  31. 31.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:22 am

    @Norwonk: Larsson’s books are definitely anti-fascist and pro-socialist.
    it would take a very crippled reading of them not to see the triumph of the free press in the trilogy.
    Do you have a Tea Party analog in Norway?
    Something comparable to League of the South and the Tea Party?
    white (NHC) christian conservatives?

  32. 32.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 11:24 am

    @Norwonk: Larsson’s books are definitely anti-fascist and pro-social1st.
    it would take a very crippled reading of them not to see the triumph of the free press in the trilogy.
    Do you have a Tea Party analog in Norway?
    Something comparable to League of the South and the Tea Party and the Klan?
    white (NHC) christian conservative nativists?

  33. 33.

    Maude

    July 31, 2011 at 11:26 am

    @Steeplejack:
    Fossum’s books are good.
    I read a lot of Northern crime novels. Aussie crime novels are also good. Peter Temple is great.

  34. 34.

    Norwonk

    July 31, 2011 at 11:32 am

    @Samara Morgan:

    it would take a very crippled reading of them not to see the triumph of the free press in the trilogy.

    I realise that’s what he was aiming for. I’m just saying that he wrote about in in a very clumsy way. Much of the first book is taken up with endless detail about how Larsson’s alter ego is going about publishing his big scoop — which somehow drops into his lap as if by magic. That’s bad writing.

    If there’s anything like the groups you mention in Norway, I suspect they could hold their conventions in a Volkswagen Beetle.

  35. 35.

    Steeplejack

    July 31, 2011 at 11:38 am

    @Maude:

    I will check out Peter Temple. I think the last Australian crime novel I read was Fergus Hume’s The Mystery of a Hansom Cab–published in 1886. LOL. Found it at Project Gutenberg, which is a treasure trove of old mysteries.

  36. 36.

    arguingwithsignposts

    July 31, 2011 at 11:42 am

    OMG, the undead tokerchan has now invaded the book threds!

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Scandinavian detective fiction is interesting because it deals with broader social issues, and if you’ve been reading it, the notion that a right wing extremist would do something violent in those countries isn’t much of a surprise.

    You’re making an argument about Scandinavian society based on their fiction? I guess there must really be wizards in England, and Smurfs and Spiderman in America.

  38. 38.

    BrianM

    July 31, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Not a mystery, but Let Me In by John Ajvide Lindqvist is a vampire novel set in a Swedish suburb. The tone and some of the concerns reminded me a lot of the Sjöwall/Wahlöö Martin Beck series.

  39. 39.

    srv

    July 31, 2011 at 11:51 am

    My impression from having watched series like Wallander, “Girl with the *” and one other I forget (was subtitled, not translated) was of the seamy underside of the police, immigration officials or right-wingers (more outwardly comfortable in their bigotries than their US kin) vs the lone heroic detective or journalist.

    Until this massacre, I kinda thought the monster antogonists were mostly like the nazis prevalent in US shows back in the day.

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    In a tech forum, of all places, I ran across praise for the blu ray disk of a 2010 Swedish crime film, “Snabba Cash,” based on a 2006 novel by Jens Lapidus. Anyone familiar with this author?

    Apparently there will be two more films. And Warners is working on an English language remake to be called “Easy Money.”

  41. 41.

    efroh

    July 31, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Diane Rehm interviewed Eva Gabrielsson back in June and she spoke about how she and Mr. Larsson were threatened by the right wing in Sweden.

    http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-06-22/eva-gabrielsson-there-are-things-i-want-you-know-about-stieg-larsson-and-me

  42. 42.

    Michael James

    July 31, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Not just Scandanavian crime-thrillers: watched “Festen” (The first Dogme 95 movie, directed by Thomas Vinterberg) last night, and there’s a scene with an extremely drunken Danish family gathering singing racist songs. In the light of what happened in neighbouring Norway, it seems quite prophetic and chilling.

  43. 43.

    xochi

    July 31, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    I’m a fan of the Wallander novels, though Steeplejack is right that they get a bit preachy. But Wallander as a character makes them worth reading. I wonder why no one has mentioned the nonfiction book Lords of Chaos by Michael Moynihan and Didrik Soderlind. It’s about a group of Norwegian kids who are involved in the black metal community who end up burning churches and committing murders. One of them, Varg Vikernes, becomes a part of the neo-nazi community after murdering his bandmate because he wasn’t hardcore enough. Crazy stuff.

  44. 44.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts: you answer the question then AWS.
    Do you think there are white (NHC) conservative christian nativist groups in Norway with power, that are analogous to the Tea Party or the League of the South?

    it sounds to me from the literature surveyed that scandinavians are somewhat more sensitized to crypto-fascist nativists masquerading as anti-socialist conservative christians.
    I think socialist government is regarded as a Good Thing there.

  45. 45.

    km

    July 31, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Åke Edwardson’s books are set in Gothenburg and are quite good. Helene Tursten’s books too, and her main character, “Irene Huss: Policewoman” lends her name to the program base on the books, which sometimes plays on local cable/PBS, a series called International Mystery.

    And I agree with Norwonk. Steig Larsson is a terrible writer. His plots are only barely coherent, and his language is overly simple (which, on the plus side, helped me slog through the Swedish). That didn’t stop me from reading and mostly enjoying his books, but there are better examples of Swedish detective fiction out there — Sjöwall and Wahlöö are probably at the top of my list, and there’s a ton that’s in the process of being translated right now, on the heels of Larsson’s success.

  46. 46.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts:
    It seems as if in the literature surveyed, a socialist government is regarded as a Good Thing.
    Perhaps scandinavians are just more sensitive to crypto-fascist white christian nativists.

  47. 47.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts:
    It seems as if in the literature surveyed, a social1st government is regarded as a manifestly Good Thing.
    Perhaps scandinavians are just more sensitive to crypto-fascist white christian nativists.
    @km: I guess that depends on your definition of a successful writer. Like many crit the Harry Potter books.
    Accessibility is one of the greatest criteria– how many more humans have read Larsson than the lesser knowns?
    And im also reading the trilogy in swedish. It helps that its simple.
    I’m charmed by the pure swedishness of the books. Everyone goes to IKEA and has a summer home and lives in a tiny city apartment.
    The citizens really seem to believe the government and the media and the police should be responsive to the citizens.
    Magazine editors can be heroes and cultural icons!
    way cool.

  48. 48.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts: and you can answer the question then AWS.
    Do you think there are white (NHC) conservative christian nativist groups in Norway with power, that are analogous to the Tea Party or the League of the South?

  49. 49.

    km

    July 31, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    @Samara Morgan: Having lots of readers doesn’t make one a good writer. The DaVinci Code was a hunk of crap, but there was a point when almost everyone was reading it (leading to this awesome Onion piece). I think there’s a big difference between a successful author and a good writer. Larsson is the former, not the latter.

    I think the Swedishness of Swedish detective fiction is less in the obvious stuff — though the Ikea and coffee help — and more in the embedded attitudes motivating characters’ actions, the kinds of crimes depicted (usually way over-the-top violence — not because it’s Swedish, but because it’s decidedly anti-Swedish), and the roles that different kinds of people play: for instance, Erica Berger in Larsson’s books is far more interesting as a Swedish woman than Salander, who’s little more than a male fantasy version of what a feminist is like. Also, the moralizing, which I find kind of refreshing.

  50. 50.

    scav

    July 31, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Is someone actually going to explain how cultural and national concerns don’t influence writers, even writers whose characters fly on broomsticks? Or is there a strong contingent of writers’ imaginations that work in a societiless bubble that I’ve just been missing all these years? The influences may not be the main thread of the story and easily read, they may even gasp! not entirely understand their own society but ruling out the local Zeitgheist as being a factor in novels and stories seems to be going a bit far.

  51. 51.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    @km: i liked Erica a lot too, but i think you are wrong about Lisbeth being a male fantasy avatar. If Larsson intended her as a male fantasy avatar she would have jumped into bed with Blomqvist at the end.
    :)
    She is a persecution avatar as a literary device. She is small, young, female and powerless, even working class and poor–and cruelly persecuted by the very system designed to protect her, and her triumph becomes our triumph.
    I loved her.
    But im a girl– are you a guy?

    Some of the tech (the cuff) was sort of unbelievable, but Plague and Wasp as citizens of the Hacker Republic is very apt…in case you havent guessed im an otaku of Julian Assange.

  52. 52.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    @km: and the sex. i liked the bi-curious tattoo’d and pierced stockholm clubscene counter-culture, and Blomqvist and Erica’s matter-of-fact longterm affair.
    sex as recreation, not the horrorshow of American suppressed, exploited torturous sexuality.

    and like the Potter books, Larssons novels are stuffed with literary tags.

    Through its main character, it also references classic forebears of the crime thriller genre while its style mixes aspects of the sub-genres. There are references to Astrid Lindgren, Enid Blyton, Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers, as well as Sue Grafton, J.R.R. Tolkien, Val McDermid, Elizabeth George, Sara Paretsky, and several other key authors of detective novels.

    and even the Pippi Longstocking reference. AMG! i loved Pippi as a young American girl. she was teh awesome, a child superhero.
    V. Vikula was on the nameplate of Lisbeth’s apartment for Villa Vikula.

    your crits seem wierdly similiar to grownups critting the Harry Potter series.
    if i may quote from another beloved book, Tom Robbins Still Life With Woodpecker….

    its never too late to have a happy childhood

  53. 53.

    James E. Powell

    July 31, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    @Irving:

    I think pop fiction says a lot more about what a society thinks it is rather than what it is.

    I may be stupid, but the distinction escapes me. I guess I am pretty stupid because the distinction escapes me.

  54. 54.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    one more thing km.
    American cinema and literature often feature a cinderella story– Legally Blonde for instance, or Flashdance.
    Lisbeth is another sort of faerytale character– a distinctly swedish faerytale.

    Eight-year-old Pippi is unconventional, assertive, and has superhuman strength, being able to lift her horse one-handed without difficulty. She frequently mocks and dupes adults she encounters, an attitude likely to appeal to young readers; however, Pippi usually reserves her worst behavior for the most pompous and condescending of adults. She turns white around the nose whenever she gets angry, though this rarely happens. Pippi’s anger is reserved for the most extreme cases, such as when a man ill-treats his horse. Like Peter Pan, Pippi does not want to grow up.

  55. 55.

    km

    July 31, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    @Samara Morgan: I’m a guy. When I was reading Larsson’s books I was reminded of something that Nabokov said about Lolita — that a lot of people give up reading once the “salaciousness” winds down and the book turns into a mere literary masterpiece. We often read stuff because we’re compelled by titillating characters and situations without really realizing it. In the case of Salander, I just never felt that she outgrew the titillation factor.

    I think she’s a cipher for male fantasy for a bunch of reasons. First, the gothy super-hacker is practically a stock character in procedural fiction and tv — but it’s almost always a man. Part of Salander’s appeal is that she’s doing typically male things, but she’s a woman. She also reacts in predictably male ways: with extreme violence (and I’m using “male” here in terms of how male literary characters are usually portrayed). Sure, there’s a genre of female revenge fantasy out there (think Kill Bill, though that was also created by a dude), but there’s nothing very interesting and subtle about the way Salander goes about it. She’s also a perpetual victim, not just of extreme physical and sexual violence, but also of societal pressures (boob job, gravitational pull toward savior men). My overall feeling is that she’s sufficiently “female” for the genre (victim, getting with the hero), but also uncritically “male” in all the things that stick out as making her different. There’s little attempt to portray her as powerful in her female characteristics.

    I think the Blomkvist/Berger affair is great, and pretty representative of a more open attitude to sex than Americans have. Agreed. But I don’t think that something like making references to other authors renders one a good writer when the main characters are more or less stock pulp and the plot is overly complex and barely coherent.

    Again, I mostly enjoyed the books, but I think that’s despite Larsson’s writing. Probably because they’re set in a time right before I lived in Stockholm, and they invoke a lot of nostalgia for me (his descriptions of the city are really accurate). I’ve just been kind of stumped as to why this series, as opposed to innumerable others out there, has put Swedish detective fiction (back) on the map worldwide.

    And as for the comparison to Harry Potter, I’m not sure what the relevance is. Just because some people criticized one series of books about some things doesn’t grant it authority status for understanding a totally unrelated series. I happened to like the HP books — and not without criticism — but they’re a completely different genre and audience than Larsson’s books.

  56. 56.

    hamletta

    July 31, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    I need to check out some of these novels, especially if they’re better written than the Millennium series.

    I agree that they’re not very good (and to make matters worse, the English translations were rushed), but damn if they aren’t engrossing! Like a big bag of potato chips, you know they aren’t terribly good for you, but I bet you can’t eat just one.

  57. 57.

    Emerald

    July 31, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    @hamletta: Yeah, I ate up the Millennium books. Crunch crunch! I adored Salander–thought she was quite an original character creation.

    Maybe, as a female, it’s just fun to see the persecuted but tough and self-sufficient little girl win, mostly on her own. (Sigourney Weaver in Alien did the same for me–most men who saw that didn’t notice that it was the woman who beat the bastard in the end.)

    I don’t look to detective novels for literary style. I can get that elsewhere when I want it. My only quibble about those books was the shooting-in-the-head part of the plot. Thought that did indeed go an eensey bit too far. Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed ’em, which is a major reason I read.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    @scav :

    Is someone actually going to explain how cultural and national concerns don’t influence writers, even writers whose characters fly on broomsticks?

    Two of the most reductive fallacies about fiction is to view novels merely as disguised biography or accurate social reporting.

    I am greatly enjoying PD James’ short work on the history of mysteries, “Talking About Detective Fiction.” One section quotes a letter from Dorothy L. Sayers to her publishers. She explains how she made Lord Peter Wimsey rich because it pleased her and likely would please her readers. She adds, “I deliberately gave him [a large income]. At that time, I was particularly hard up, and it gave me pleasure to spend his fortune for him.”

  59. 59.

    AAA Bonds

    July 31, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    If you didn’t consider the possibility of right-wing, anti-Muslim violence in Northern Europe before, well, I don’t know if there’s much anyone can do for you.

  60. 60.

    AAA Bonds

    July 31, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    @km:

    To me, she’s something that’s all over graphic novels, pseudonymous blogs, nerd culture, etc.: a white male with gender issues and liberal guilt projecting his fantasy of being a beautiful, masculine lesbian. There’s a bunch of readers who want to share this fantasy.

    Of course she doesn’t jump into bed with the male lead at the end, because that would make the avatar of the repressed male reader someone overtly attracted to men, which would immediately dispel the illusion.

    When they ever break hetero-celibacy for more than a few hinted sentences, you’ll usually see these pseudo-lesbian avatars go after shy male losers in these sorts of books, which squares the circle on the fantasy.

  61. 61.

    Steeplejack

    July 31, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    @km:

    I have pushed International Mystery on here before, but it seems hard or impossible for most people to find.

    My favorite is Montalbano, and I have bought all those on DVD. Really, really good. And the Bruno Cremer Maigret series is very atmospheric.

  62. 62.

    kideni

    July 31, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    One thing to consider with Larsson is that the books probably would have been much better had he lived to see them through the editing process. Then there might have been someone to work with him on cutting out some of the subplots that don’t really go anywhere (even as diversions), even out the plotting, improve the dialogue, etc. I loved the books anyway, but there were many times that I rolled my eyes.

    I do think that the Scandinavian writers, at least the ones that get translated into English, bring a more leftwing viewpoint into the mix than we see in most American and British crime fiction. I drifted away from PD James and the like because I got tired of the conservative talking points that would occasionally slip out. I like that the better Scandinavian authors tend to make their characters flawed in some way, and that female characters tend to be just part of the team, not objects or types.

    My mother’s side of the family all lives in Denmark, so I’ve paid attention to societal shifts in all the Scandinavian countries. Denmark really isn’t dealing well with immigration and racism. My own family shows some of the splits: my aunt’s side is liberal, thinks immigration is great for a country that’s otherwise losing population, and is itself multicultural (my cousin’s wife is Palestinian); my uncle’s side is conservative and some of them unapologetically and proudly racist (not all of them, fortunately).

  63. 63.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    @km:

    she’s a cipher for male fantasy for a bunch of reasons.

    maybe to males. that is why i asked if you were a guy. :)
    to me shes the embodiment of hero-gurrl prototype Pippi Longstocking.

    Pippi claims her full name is Pippilotta Delicatessa Windowshade Mackrelmint Ephraim’s Daughter Longstocking (Swedish: Pippilotta Viktualia Rullgardina Krusmynta Efraimsdotter Långstrump). Her fiery red hair is worn in kečkes, or pigtails, that are so tightly wound that they stick out sideways from her head.
    Pippi lives in a small Swedish village, sharing the house she styles “Villa Villekulla” with her monkey, Mr. Nilsson, and her horse (“Lilla gubben”, “little buddy”, in the books, in adaptations usually referred to as “Old Man” or Alfonzo) but no adults or relatives. She befriends the two children living next door: Tommy and Annika Settergren. The three have many adventures. Tommy and Annika’s mother, Mrs. Settergren, often disapproves of Pippi’s manners and lack of education, but eventually comes to appreciate that Pippi would never put Tommy and Annika in danger, and that Pippi values her friendship with the pair above almost anything in her life. Pippi’s two main possessions are a suitcase full of gold coins (which she used to buy her horse) and a large chest of drawers containing various small treasures.
    Though lacking much formal education, Pippi is very intelligent in a common-sense fashion, has a well-honed sense of justice and fair play, and has learned from a wide variety of experiences. She will show respect (though still in her own unique style) for adults who treat her and other children fairly. Her attitude towards the worst of adults (from a child’s viewpoint) is often that of a vapid, foolish and chatterbox of a child, with most of her targets not realizing just how sharp and crafty Pippi is until she’s made fools of them. Pippi has an amazing talent for spinning tall tales, although she normally does not lie with malicious intent; rather, she tells truth in the form of humorously strange stories.

    if Larsson was crafting a male fantasy avatar, he hardly would have titled the book in Swedish.

    original title in Swedish: Män som hatar kvinnor – “Men Who Hate Women”

    And as for the comparison to Harry Potter, I’m not sure what the relevance is.

    oh, Rowling stuffs her books with literary tagging too. Like the name of Voldemorts snake is taken from Kipling’s Rikki Tikki Tavi. And Harry is the persecution avatar for nerd boys. Outrageous injustices happen to him too.
    Its a literary device like sexual titillation.
    What do you think Steig would say if you told him you thought Lisbeth was a male fantasy?

  64. 64.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    @kideni:

    One thing to consider with Larsson is that the books probably would have been much better had he lived to see them through the editing process.

    this is probably true.
    :)

  65. 65.

    Samara Morgan

    July 31, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    @AAA Bonds:

    To me, she’s something that’s all over graphic novels, pseudonymous blogs, nerd culture, etc.: a white male with gender issues and liberal guilt projecting his fantasy of being a beautiful, masculine lesbian.

    pardon, but you’re totally full of shit.
    WTF? Liberal guilt?
    sry, i dont speak teabagger or white xian nativist or w/e the fuck you are.
    Larsson was a SOCIAL1ST you moron.
    and he was a total hetero-guy WITH A MISTRESS.

  66. 66.

    Bart

    July 31, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    The Scandihovians are writing the best crime/social commentary novels today.

    There are also some from Iceland, Arnaldur Indridason for one.

  67. 67.

    Delia

    July 31, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    @kideni:

    One thing to consider with Larsson is that the books probably would have been much better had he lived to see them through the editing process. Then there might have been someone to work with him on cutting out some of the subplots that don’t really go anywhere (even as diversions), even out the plotting, improve the dialogue, etc. I loved the books anyway, but there were many times that I rolled my eyes.

    Yeah, this is what drove me crazy about the books. I think the Salander character is what makes the whole narrative compelling. But Blomqvist, the main POV character is just blah, and I thought his other female friends were also. And as you say, there was too much stuff that didn’t go anywhere.

  68. 68.

    stormhit

    August 1, 2011 at 3:00 am

    @2

    If there’s an idiotic term that has long since lost all of its original meaning, it’s the whole “Nice Guy” meme.

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