“There can be no high civility without a deep morality.”
The bright moment of yesterday’s vote on the “Ugh, this bill sucks” bill was Gabby Giffords’ triumphant return to Congress.
The House erupted in applause and Giffords looked marvelous, smiling, and strong. (Oddly, it was during the standing ovation that Michele Bachmann decided to slink into the room — bizarre).
The tone in Washington, however, is just as uncivil as it ever was. From Talking Points Memo:
Instead, Giffords returned on Monday to find things as bad as ever.
~snip~
In the most recent instance, Republicans are slamming Vice President Joe Biden — who stopped by the Capitol for Giffords’ big entrance — for reportedly comparing conservative lawmakers to “terrorists” in a meeting with House Democrats the same day. Biden has claimed it was a House Member who used the phrase instead, but Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) demanded an apology in a fundraising email to supporters. “Our belief that America should live within its means and not spend more than it takes in distinguishes us as patriots who love our country, not to be equated with the terrorists whose sole aim is to destroy it,” she wrote.
Michele’s outrage is disingenuous, given her statement that she wanted Minnesotans “armed and dangerous”:
I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people—we the people—are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country. And I think this has the potential of changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the United States.
Um, Michele? What term would you use for a bunch of idiots who are arming themselves to fight the ever-looming threat of healthcare reform and the mortal danger that is cap-and-trade? Riddle me that?
Talking Points Memo has the rundown of the Beltway’s civility problem. Essentially, Democrats and Republicans are pointing fingers at each other: Democrats are likening the Tea Party to terrorists, while the GOP does little to dispel the notion that they are terrorists by watching clips from Ben Affleck’s movie The Town, in order to get fired up about the debt ceiling fight.
Last night’s vote was a culmination of weeks of rancor, accusations, and outrage — on both the left and the right. It seemed that the air was thick with tension.
And then there was Giffords:
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Again, from Talking Points Memo:
As Giffords left the House yesterday, a reporter asked Nancy Pelosi whether her vote might help the two parties put the worst partisan excesses of the debt fight behind them.
“I certainly hope so,” she said. “She’s a symbol of that.”
As I watched Giffords, I must admit, I teared up a bit. The tragedy in January occurred one miles from my parents’ house. I have walked to the grocery store where she was shot. My parents routinely shop there. Tucson was devastated by the events on that fated January day, and that devastation went almost entirely ignored.
What got lost during the tragedy and the subsequent healing process, is that Tucsonians were severely shaken up. This tragedy affected their lives in ways they couldn’t even understand. And once the media frenzy died down, it was Tucsonians who were left traumatized, to pick up the pieces — left to wonder if there was something wrong with them because six months later, they couldn’t read a newspaper or watch the news, or think about politics as a result of the fog of depression still hanging over their heads like a menacing cloud.
So, for me seeing Giffords’s grand entrance was a testament to the human spirit — to our ability to pick ourselves up after a tragedy and fight onward. To do our jobs. To do what we are here to do. To make things better.
Some say she was merely the victim of a madman and that “civility” had nothing to do with it. Others think that’s a load of horseshit. And still others aren’t yet sure who or what to blame, but nonetheless think that we could all tone down the rhetoric to a respectable level. For my part, I was solidly in Camp Two directly after the shooting, but I’ve got one toe in Camp 3 now.
Still, I don’t buy the false equivalencies that are being floated now, and I didn’t buy them then. I don’t adhere to the “both sides do it!” argument. Both sides don’t do it. (In fact one side recognizes the absolute necessity of gun control, while the other side wants to put a gun in the hands of every man, woman, child, and fetus, and thinks it’s an awesome idea to actually engrave anti-Obama rhetoric on an assault rifle.)
I also will not pretend to be above it all. Y’all know me. I’m no poster child for “civility.” I have a category on my blog called “Please Die in a Fire,” for frack’s sake. I live in a glass house and I’m not going to cast stones.
But I will say this: The reason my category is called “Please die in a fire” is that it’s my own irreverent way of signaling that I don’t advocate violence. I’m all for people taking themselves out of the humanity pool by engaging in a little self-immolation, but commit violence? No. I slapped a girl in sixth grade (I don’t remember why — she pissed me off, I guess), but that is the extent of my fightin’ experience.
I may irreverently joke that I’m going to “reach out and cut somebody” or that something or other “makes me stabby” but it should be obvious that I’m not serious. I understand that words have consequences, and I’m sure that, by now, my readers understand that, love it or hate it, it is a stylistic choice.
My irreverent hyperbole aside, if folks point out that something I’ve said is wrong, over the line, or offensive to a group of people, I’ll retract it 1 I’ve done it before! More than once!
Point is, there’s a time for snark and there’s a time for dooshery. The trick is to figure out what time it is, and act accordingly.
When a woman returns to her job after being shot in the head — when Gabrielle Giffords returns to Congress to do the job for which she was elected? That is not the time for snark or dooshery.
I’m talking to you Adam Green:
There’s something wrong with you, son.
To those echoing Adam Green’s sentiment? There’s something wrong with you, too.
It’s called “lack of compassion.” It’s also called “no damn sense.”
You’re an embarrassment to the progressive values you purport to hold so dear.
UPDATE: Here is Giffords’s press release:
U.S. REP. GABRIELLE GIFFORDS CASTS FIRST HOUSE VOTE SINCE JAN. 8 SHOOTING
Congresswoman travels to Washington to support bipartisan bill to avoid defaultWASHINGTON – U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords returned to Congress today to vote in favor of legislation that will avoid a default by the U.S. government.
It was the first vote she has cast since she was shot and critically wounded on Jan. 8 while meeting with her constituents in Tucson.
“I have closely followed the debate over our debt ceiling and have been deeply disappointed at what’s going on in Washington,” Giffords said. “After weeks of failed debate in Washington, I was pleased to see a solution to this crisis emerge. I strongly believe that crossing the aisle for the good of the American people is more important than party politics. I had to be here for this vote. I could not take the chance that my absence could crash our economy.”
In December 2009 and again in February 2010, Giffords refused to go along with an increase in the debt limit. But this vote was substantially different, with the strength of the U.S. economy hanging in the balance.
1 Only if I agree that my statement or position should be retracted or amended, of course. Often people demand that I retract statements or positions they don’t like. That’s not gonna happen.
[via Talking Points Memo]
[cross-posted at ABLC]
retr2327
Amen.
Steve
Quoting Bob Brigham is basically nutpicking by definition.
jibeaux
My thought was, “poor woman deserves something better to vote for than this POS.” A variation on the theme, yes, but I think an important variation.
Corner Stone
One tweet by Adam Green, your super eeebil villainous nemesis of pure doom destruction and destituteness?
I looked for other links but couldn’t find any.
RareSanity
(snicker)
brendancalling
well, yes. I too would attack anyone who voted to cut billions from program like Head Start, education, infrastructure; and who voted for something that’s going to lead to social security, medicare, and medicaid cuts.
I don’t care who that person is, you don’t fuck with my future and my kids’ future. I don’t give a flying fuck if it’s bipartisan or not, it’s a rotten deal.
Corner Stone
95% of this ummm post is quoting ridiculous right wing nut jobs. And a tweet from some insignificant nobody on the left. And this proves “progressives” attacked her?
Michelle Bachmann is a candidate for President. Who is Adam Green?
Nancy Pelosi gave a quote full of hope.
WTF.
Dave
All due deference to Giffords’ victimization, she cast a bad vote.
ABL
@RareSanity: inorite? i already fixed it. shameful.
hildebrand
Sometimes people need to do a bit of self-filtering – what sounded fine in your head may not be so swell when shared with others.
eemom
@jibeaux:
yeah, that’s sort of where I was at.
Frankly it bothered me that her appearance was used to lend some MUCH undeserved credibility to the whole disgusting process. Exploited, one might say.
I don’t see how it’s disrespectful to Ms. Giffords to feel that way.
burnspbesq
@brendancalling:
And you know this how?
ABL
pie filter no longer working? good times!
::exits::
Linda Featheringill
I was so glad to see Gabby at the House. And she could vote any way she damn well pleased for all I cared. It was just nice to have her part of the equation again.
Hopefully, we’ll see more of her after the recess. And again, she can vote anyway she wishes. It will be good to have her in the game.
And maybe some of those other jerks will just fade into the background.
Nice post, ABL.
cyntax
It’s a great gesture, and I’m gob-smacked that she’s getting criticism from “progressives.”
However, jibeaux has a point; it’d be nice to have a bill that actually does the country some good for her to vote on, not simply the evil of two lessers. Ah well, you legislate with the Congress you have…
Mike M
Well here’s a new form of hippie punching we haven’t seen before. Hauling a woman out of the hospital after a near death experience to vote on a piece of dogshit bill, then using dis-satisfaction with that bill as a cudgel. “Why can’t you respect Giffords, what are you crazy!”.
I’ll take a pass on the knee jerk sentimentality thanks. I’m very happy that Giffords is back on her feet and happy she’s back to work. None of that changes the fact that this bill is a piece of shit that probably just ruined any chance of Democrats governing for the next 2-3 election cycles. And Giffords was wrong to vote fo it.
If anything the pathetic Democrats deserve condemnation for hauling this woman in what reeks of a publicity stunt in order to get the last of the progressives in line. Don’t blame the peasants as they’re sharpening their guillotines, your name is likely to be knitted next asshole.
RareSanity
@ABL:
Almost 5pm EDT and my first giggle of the day…
DonkeyKong
ABL, Balloonjuice’s official cuckoo clock.
Gustopher
I like to think it speaks to the nature of her recovery that she is able to hold her nose with one hand, and vote with the other.
Ok, she’s always been a bit of a conservative Democrat, so she might actually approve of the bill. But, I don’t blame her for the Satan Sandwich, I blame the Teabaggers who made us choose between a Satan Sandwich and economic collapse.
Brachiator
Shit, that line got crossed a long time ago, unfortunately.
Very touching stuff, what you write here about Tucson and Rep. Giffords.
Brian R.
@brendancalling:
On what planet?
It’s not going to happen. No matter how many people on the left wet their pants over that idiotic fantasy, it is not going to happen. Pelosi has already said as much.
RalfW
@brendancalling: Complaining, loudly as one pleases, over a bad vote is OK.
Saying a person wasn’t sufficiently maimed, and voted wrong, is vile.
The Worst Person In the World
It is great that Gabby G is making progress in her recovery.
It is not great that she made this sack of shit bill her first vote upon return.
It is also kind of tacky, the way Pelosi and GG made her vote into a Lifetime movie moment. Way too many politicians in DC think everything is about THEM personally.
Steve
@eemom:
She’s not a vegetable, you know. Presumably she was there because she felt it was important to be there for this vote and to vote the way she did. She wasn’t “used.”
Just because I might admire Gabrielle Giffords’ personal courage does not mean that her political views happen to align perfectly with my own. I think this deal was something of a turd sandwich. She apparently disagrees. Doesn’t mean she was “exploited” by the non-turd-sandwich faction, though.
Morbo
If you believed that Giffords’s return would bring a new era of civility to Washington, I have a bridge you might be interested in. If you think the invocation of civility is anything more than a cudgel used exclusively against lefties who swear, then I have a tunnel, too.
TooManyJens
Like I said in the other thread, I’m pretty bothered by all the people saying that she was manipulated or exploited or used. She has severe difficulty expressing her thoughts, but by all accounts her intellect and personality survived intact. I really believe that if she was there, it was because she wanted to be there.
I know how frustrated I was, as a citizen, sitting by and watching the House dick around for months on a routine housekeeping matter, threatening to tank the economy in the process. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must have been for a sidelined member of Congress. Sure, this was a turdburger of a vote for her to come back for, but I can see why she would.
ETA: Steve, I see great minds think alike.
Craig
What this Bob Brigham character (whoever the fuck he is) said is pretty cockwieldery, but if you’re a politician and you cast a vote on this or that piece of legislation then you should expect to be criticized, and especially with a vote as unloved as this one you should expect to be criticized from all sides.
Elie
Nice post ABL…
Wow, do you get under some folks’ skin. Nice. :-). You must be doing something right.
Steve
@RalfW: Unless I misunderstand how Twitter works, which is entirely possible, it was not Adam Green who said that Giffords was insufficiently maimed.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
This. Before she was shot, we here in Left Blogistania would have worked hard to primary her out of Congress because she’s a Blue Dog.
I’m not forgetting her political record. While I’m glad she’s recovering, glad she made it a point of coming back to vote on something she believed in, nothing changes the fact that she’s not one of the “better Democrats” some of us over at Teh Orange try mightily to get elected. She’s simply a “more Democrat”.
Roger Moore
@brendancalling:
You’re over simplifying. The alternatives were not “vote to cut programs” and “vote to keep everything the same”. The alternatives were “vote to cut programs” and “vote for default and fiscal armageddon”. That’s an ugly, unpleasant choice, but don’t damn the person who chose the lesser of available evils because they voted for evil.
Mattminus
Wow, melodramatic much?
TooManyJens
@Roger Moore: Yeah. I just can’t understand the impulse to aim more anger at the extortees than at the extortionists.
DonkeyKong
So we are clear, this is what passed, with or without the sentimental vote of Giffords.
The Obama-GOP plan cuts $917 billion in government spending over the next decade. Nearly $570 billion of that would come from what’s called “non-defense discretionary spending.” That’s budget-speak for the pile of money the government invests in the nation’s safety and future—education and job training, air traffic control, health research, border security, physical infrastructure, environmental and consumer protection, child care, nutrition, law enforcement, and more.
The White House’s plan would slash this type of spending nearly in half, from about 3.3 percent of America’s GDP to as low as 1.7 percent, the lowest in nearly half a century, says Ethan Pollack, a senior policy analyst at the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute. Pollack’s calculations suggest the cuts in Obama’s plan are almost as deep as those in Rep. Paul Ryan’s slash-and-burn budget, which shrunk non-defense discretionary spending down to just 1.5 percent of GDP. The president has claimed that the debt deal will allow America to continue making “job-creating investments in things like education and research.” But on crucial public investment, Obama’s and Ryan’s plans are next-door neighbors. “There’s no way to square this plan with the president’s ‘Winning the Future’ agenda,” Pollack says. “That agenda ends.”
Brian R.
@TooManyJens:
Yep. There’s also the fact that she has always been one of the more centrist Democrats in the entire House caucus. Shooting or no shooting, she would’ve supported this from the very start.
She’s not some pathetic victim who was manipulated in this debt ceiling debate. Sorry if she didn’t play whatever imaginary role some of you carved out for her, but this is who she is and who she’s always been.
JGabriel
ABL @ Top:
Not so bizarre, just sociopathically opportunistic. Bachmann probably wanted footage, for her ad campaigns, of herself entering the House chambers to a standing ovation. Since that wasn’t likely to be forthcoming on her own behalf, Bachmann decided to trundle in on someone else’s thunder.
That’s my analysis anyway.
.
Mike Goetz
I’m not alone! Somebody else gets it! A Fallows reader:
“My hope is that the Tea Baggers don’t have the wit to realize just how badly they’ve been snookered. But, since they have no grip on or connection to reality, I suspect there is no danger of that.
Consider, they could have had $3 Trillion in cuts, including changes to SS and Medicare without any pressure on Defense, plus only $1 Trillion in increased revenues. Now, they have basically $25 bil in cuts plus equal pressure on Defense and Discretionary cuts going forward with no pressure on SS, Medicare or Obamacare, and $4 Trillion in increased revenues.
And you think Obama was pawned? Paul Krugman notwithstanding, this is better than anyone on the left could have hoped for.”
Elie
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
Well unless you can replace a “blue dog” with a more liberal democrat, and not a buttfuck crazy teapartier, I’m not sure you are helping much.
Samara Morgan
People that crit Gabby for this epic vote are as LD as the teabaggers that just got rolled by Team Obama.
Oh retards…Obama just ganked the GOP.
If Douthat is bright enough to see that why aren’t you?
hahahaha
oh ross, baby…..its a TRAP!
gogol's wife
I love the fact that the first few comments are doubting anyone on the left said anything bad about Gabby Giffords, and then a large percentage of the following comments dump on her.
FlipYrWhig
@Roger Moore: Actually the alternatives were “vote to cut unspecified programs in unspecified ways to be determined over a very long time horizon” and “vote for default and fiscal armageddon.” But that doesn’t sound nearly as orgataclysmic. It helps if you fill in “cut unspecified programs in unspecified ways” with “stick a needle in the eye of a poor kid,” because that’s totally what that Obama bastard has led you to have to conclude he really truly wants.
boss bitch
@Steve:
Gifford disagreed that we should allow the country to default. That’s it.
Egilsson
That’s coming from ABL??!!
Her standard blog post is a semi-coherent spew of bile. In fact, I’m not actually clear what the point of this post is, except that if you don’t agree with ABL, you are a discourteous and uncivil douchebag. And isn’t ABL wrong about who said what in the hashtag?
Loviatar
typical ABL post.
John out of your more recent front pagers, ABL is definitely a miss. She doesn’t write anything interesting, its usually FIREBAGGER, Racist, FIREBAGGER, Sexist posts with very little there to back up her assertions.
She is usually a skip for me, send her back to the minors you’re wasting front page space on her.
FlipYrWhig
@DonkeyKong:
I think this is called “putting your thumb on the scales.” It’s also budget-speak for the pile of money the government may well be spending in ineffective ways or using to incentivize, in essence, looting: f’rinstance, grants to “faith-based initiatives,” ethanol subsidies, or other flimflam. It actually is possible, especially given that Republicans had the run of the government for a solid chunk of years, that “non-defense discretionary spending” includes tons and tons of payoffs and bullshit. I don’t know when progressives decided we had to act like every government dollar is as sacred as conservatives consider every sperm.
Keith G
Oh for goodness sake ABL, you document one person who I have to guess is a progressive and further you write “those echoing” this unknown Adam Green (the song writer?). Who are these people? Why does Green’s brain fart make a difference?
And this deserves the headline, “..is attacked by progressives..”
How about, “..is attacked by a few unknown sorry-assed persons..”
Samara Morgan
@DonkeyKong: @DonkeyKong: you got rolled like a teabagger dude.
Chunky Bobo
Obama just sicc’d the defense lobbyists and the insurance industry lobbyists on the retardicans.
All the dems have to do on the supercommittee is……nothing.
then the hammergun falls on the defense industry and the medicare PROVIDERS.
you are as dumb as a teabagger.
;)
Heliopause
Giffords is alive and modestly functional because of state-of-the-art science and medical insurance that is only available to a small fraction of the population. So of course she voted for the most severe federal austerity legislation anyone can remember as a payback. Oh well.
brendancalling
@burnspbesq: it’s called “reading the news”. You might want to try it some time.
aisce
“cannot believe @rep_giffords chose this vote to make her comeback.”
hmm, yes. such vile incivility. is there a reason why you’re yelling at adam green and not this bob whoeverheis character?
beyond the obvious, of course. you know what’s sadder than parasites like adam green? embarrassing scooby gang bloggers who are parasiting off the parasite. grifters gotta grift.
Samara Morgan
@Loviatar: so Kain was a success for you?
hes jennifer rubin with a dick.
try again.
or freddie?
it is to laff.
ABL is on our side at least, and i betcha i cannot make her cry.
;)
brendancalling
@ RalfW: when did I EVER say GG wasn’t “sufficiently maimed”? I never said that.
You know what you call someone who falsely puts words in other people’s mouths? a “liar”.
Disagree with me all you want, RalfW, but don’t tell lies about me. or else I’ll make up some shit and put those words in YOUR mouth, Fucko.
Lolis
@Mike M:
WTF? Who are you implying “hauled out” Giffords. Please provide links for your conspiracy-riddled drivel or STFU. She is disabled now but that doesn’t mean anyone used her as a political prop. Her statement clearly states she wanted to come back for this.
Samara Morgan
@Heliopause: this is not austerity legislation. austerity legislation has taxation revenues.
the cuts fall on Medicare PROVIDERS not on recipients, you retard.
read the bill.
O just unleashed a plague of lobbyists on the GOP.
taylormattd
Gee, what a shock that firebagger, and Obama-hating former Dodd blogger Bob Brighman is trashing this woman for not being sufficiently injured after being shot in the head.
Honestly, what a bunch of psychopaths.
aisce
@ flipyrwhig
and i believe this is called chucking the scales out the window altogether and running away. it’s alright, flip. just keep repeating the mantra “waste, fraud, and abuse. waste, fraud, and abuse” over and over again until your panic subsides. heaven forbid you have to confront the truth that you can’t actually reduce the budget by hundreds of billions of dollars on cuts to…cough…flimflam.
TooManyJens
@Keith G:
That would be the Adam Green who co-founded the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.
taylormattd
@Loviatar: Hey firebagger, what do you think about your fellow firebagger’s words:
Linnaeus
I think Giffords’ vote, as a vote, can be praised or criticized just like any other member’s vote on any particular bill, but Brigham didn’t need to say what he said. That was tasteless.
Steve
@boss bitch: Is that you speaking or her?
Elie
@Mike Goetz:
Mike — you are not alone but a few folks here, as you can tell, cannot understand the facts. There is no hard agreement on cuts to anything right now and perhaps never. We are back where we started — having to legislate specific cuts in the Congress. Out of the woods? No. We have to keep fighting but we have escaped the catastrophe to the poor and weak and our country in a default and lived to fight on the rest… and there has been no agreement to prevent the Bush tax cuts on the rich from expiring —
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
I engaged the idiots at FDL on this and the punks banned me. . .finally.
taylormattd
@Craig: Bob Brighman is deeply involved in the so-called “progressive” blogosphere. He has blogged at Daily Kos for years, both under his own name and under “blogswarm”. He was somehow involved in the Dodd for president campaign with left-blog outreach. He blogs for FDL. He is completely and utterly typical of these psychopaths.
Elie
@gogol’s wife:
You got that right, girlfriend..
Scott
Never imagined Balloon Juice would go firebagger. But the last few days’ worth of comments say it’s happened. RIP, awesome blog.
Corner Stone
Still not clear from the post itself who the “progressives” were who attacked Gabby?
A retweet by somebody of a tweet by Adam Green?
More links please. This seems pretty thinly sourced. As usual.
retr2327
“If anything the pathetic Democrats deserve condemnation for hauling this woman in what reeks of a publicity stunt.”
FWIW, my understanding is that she was in Washington because her astronaut/husband was retiring, so she was in town anyway. If you have a (factual) basis for your claim, feel free to point it out.
Oh, and BTW: if we had had 30 or so more Dems like her in the House, this whole farce could have been avoided. Not every insufficiently liberal/progressive Dem is an enemy. And if this experience has demonstrated anything, it’s that even the worst Blue Dog Rep. (which she isn’t) is better than a Republican, given how the House works.
The Senate, not so much . . .
Dave
Um, not a conspiracy. White House thought they might need her vote.
Remember when Robert Byrd’s skeleton had to be wheeled into the Senate to vote on healthcare? It’s like, the same thing.
TooManyJens
@Elie: Not to mention that very few of the cuts happen up front, so if we can elect a better Congress (a big if, I know), we can avoid most of them or direct the cuts to be made where they should be made.
Suffern ACE
@aisce: You also can’t do much to support those progressive programs you like with an additional $60 billion in tax revenue you’ll get by ending the Bush tax cuts for the rich only. But hey, that’s librul flim flam, so it’s o.k.
Corner Stone
@gogol’s wife: How about an actual cite to stake out the original post? Is that not needed for you?
eemom
Her appearance WAS exploited to dress up this piece of shit bill in the guise of something that, in my firm opinion, it was NOT — a bill that principled representatives would vote for.
I also do not buy that a vote for this bill was a vote to save the country from default, because it shouldn’t have come to that, for all the reasons that have already been discussed.
Furthermore, for the folks accusing me of being condescending towards Ms. Giffords — ok, fuck it. I do hold her responsible for her despicable blue dog votes. Including the ones against gun control.
Corner Stone
@cyntax:
Like who?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
From FDL
sadlyyes August 1st, 2011 at 6:15 pm
oh jeebus,maybe they put aa talking chip in her head….i better go take cover,Raven,and Tbogg will git me…..g
dandelion August 1st, 2011 at 6:40 pm
458
Gabby Giffords received the best medical care possible, all at taxpayer expense.
Many many Americans are shot, suffer traumatic brain injury in car accidents, have strokes or other organic brain disorders. And what happens to them? They get care which more than likely drives them into bankrupty, or they die.
Gabby Giffords, recipient of this care at taxpayer largesse, just voted to make sure even fewer Americans will get the care she got. How different is she, then, from Marie Antoinette cutting off bread to the people while she ate cake?
I don’t see any reason to cut her any slack for that. In fact, I see a lot of value in pointing out her hypocrisy.
ottogrendel August 1st, 2011 at 7:50 pm
550
In response to Fractal @ 367
“Now that Giffords voted for the bill, if we attack the bill we are attacking Gabby Giffords.”
That is really the nut of the public theatrical framing here. It speaks volumes, perhaps more than the apparent laughter on tape, the applause or Boehner’s behavior. To use someone who owes her life to good medical care as a means to take access to that same care away from others is cold, craven, shameless, emotional manipulation.”
Amir_Khalid
It isn’t an ABL comment thread without the usual crowd of commenters pouncing on ABL just for being ABL. Never mind that she’s making a perfectly valid point: it is hyprocrisy for people aligned with Democrats to denounce Republican incivility while denouncing Gabrielle Giffords, one of their own, for voting according to her conscience — and also, it should be noted, according to the wishes of her party leadership.
Steve
@taylormattd: Bob Brigham has long been one of the very worst of the worst. I strongly disagree that he is “typical.”
AlphaLiberal
Your headline:
Gabby Giffords returns to Congress to vote on the debt ceiling compromise… and is attacked by “Progressives” for it.
Only, you don’t show where she was “attacked.” Someone didn’t like her choice of vote to return. Only in Hyperbolia is that an “attack.” Are we no longer allowed to disagree with the votes or actions or Rep Giffords? (It struck me as an odd vote, as well).
I have no idea who Bob Bingham is.
You’re the expert on attacks, I would think you would understand the difference.
someguy
You know if she hadn’t been shot in the head by some right wing extremist, I don’t think anybody would care about the criticism. As it is, she looks like a fig leaf for a bunch of Dems to vote for an atrocious Republican spending bill that is going to gut social security and medicare. “But oh, don’t criticize, because she’s recovering from a head wound…”
Corner Stone
@Amir_Khalid: She could bother backing it up with more than one tweet from fucking Adam Green.
Or is the thinly sourced bullshit ABL being ABL?
Oh wait, answered that.
Violet
Gabby Giffords is a very impressive woman. I was very glad to see her back on the floor of the House. That’s all I’ve got to say.
TooManyJens
@AlphaLiberal:
You really think saying “she wasn’t injured enough” is mere disagreement?
El Cid
I might disagree with some vote, but anyone who went through what Giffords did and returned to cast a ballot would get admiration from me and would be a stirring moment showing one’s dedication to serve in his or her elected capacity.
Even if you thought it was a vote for something you found to be terrible, you might think the vote was unfortunate in his or her choosing it, but there’s still no way to not view this as a personal triumph of enormous dedication.
(This does not include Strom Thurmond’s votes from the cryogenic chamber.)
It’s not for nothing that even among the worst enemies, there have always been moments of simple human decency between one and another, even on the very opposite of sides, because that’s how human decency works.
Without human decency, politics is shit, of any ideology.
That’s what Hitchens apparently could never understand about Orwell, and how wrong he was in thinking he was following in Orwell’s footsteps — it was the human decency and respect for free thought which you get from the volumes of writings from the latter, and not the bitter denunciations and smears of enemies that Hitchens grew to embrace more and more over time.
Corner Stone
John Cole. Really?
Maude
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
I hope you gave them what for before they gave you the boot.
Jay B.
@taylormattd:
Yeah, he’s a huge wheel at the cracker factory. Why just the other day, some Other Guy said something which I ascribed to Everyone Else as proof.
Jesus Christ, you live in a hermetically-sealed environment.
Mutaman
Over the last couple of months, I “tear up” every time I watch Obama.
Corner Stone
@TooManyJens:
Off one tweet cited in this post? Do you also disavow everything Ward Churchill and Ted Rall have ever said?
burnspbesq
@brendancalling:
You might want to consider a course in remedial reading, if your takeaway from the statutory language is what you wrote in your first comment, because you have completely missed it.
Unlike you, I read statutory language without filtering it through bizarre preconceived notions or the rantings of lunatics with axes to grind. You have a better chance of ascertaining its true meaning when you do it my way.
If you think you’re right, quote specific statutory language.
Corner Stone
@Mutaman:
I kinda do, too.
eemom
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
See, that is where a reasonable line can be drawn: between gratuitous assholery like that towards a woman who barely escaped death…..and the attitude, I’m very glad she’s ok but I still dislike her vote, and I dislike the way her vote was used. I don’t see anything reprehensible about the latter.
Elie
@Scott:
It hasnt.
gogol's wife
@Scott:
Just wait a few days. I’ve seen this happen before, but it recovers. A lot of them go away.
AlphaLiberal
@Amir_Khalid
Yes, she is a basher of progressives. We know that. She goes out of her way to find some insignificant morsel of information to use to condemn progressives.
Fuck that shit. We get that from the right wing all the time.
Look, it’s a fair comment: That was a weird vote to make such a big deal over. It’s okay for people to say as much of an elected official. It’s not a personal insult, it’s on the merits of the issue.
Again, just like the right wing, she is making up rules as she goes along. Reminds me of the right wing criticizing people for having political statements at Wellstone’s memorial.
Samara Morgan
@eemom: look dummie, its a great bill.
you are just too stupid to understand it, and the other dems that emocutting themselves over it are too…
and Jonah Goldberg wants us all to go to hell.
that must mean Gabby did the right thing.
hildebrand
Whether one agrees with Giffords or not is not the point. The point is whether or not it is kosher to mock someone after said someone is back on the job after convalescing after GETTING SHOT IN THE HEAD! Good lord, a whole day of human compassion before pissing on someone is not too much to ask.
Corner Stone
@taylormattd:
Oooo…”somehow involved” in Dodd as a candidate…
Fuck, I’m gonna need an extra blankie tonight and the backup binkie.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Maude: Not really, that’s what is so funny. I said yesterday that if I said what I said there here on the BJ I would have gotten flowers. They spout incredibly nasty personal shit about people all the time and then ban me for “inappropriate comments” for saying “screw all of you”.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@eemom: Like I said, at least TBogg jumped up too but I’ve been angling to get the boot for a while. Fucking sissy motherfuckers.
patroclus
I agree – Gabby Giffords’ emotional return to the Floor was the high point of the entire charade. The multi-minute standing ovation from all sides of the Chamber was very moving. I saw my Congressman – Mike Quigley – beaming right near her.
It was great to see – especially this soon after last January.
Frank Chow
Digby was guilty of this offense too. Calling it “clever.” http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/house-vote-giffords-returns.html
Not a fine moment for a few prominent progressives yesterday.
AlphaLiberal
I also object to the evil tactic of collective guilt. So one guy (not Adam Green but the other one) said something eye raising. That means all Progressives suck?
How about we remove “Progressives” and put in “Blacks.” See how it reads then.
Tell you what, you guys hate progressives so much? Fine. Why don’t you turn to all those centrist activists for your next elections. Hmm kay?
BruinKid
@Dave: I disagree the White House had anything to do with her showing up. Look at the final margin of the bill, you think they didn’t have some sense before the vote that it would pass?
But if you want to talk about wheeling someone in, look at former Senator Clair Engle (D-CA), who couldn’t even speak after a deadly brain tumor, and had to point to his eye to signal “Aye” in order to break the crucial filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. He died 40 days later.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal: You are full of shit.
Maude
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Their fees fees get hurt easily, I gather.
You zing them because what you say is true.
aisce
@ someguy
that’s true. if not for being shot in the head, she’d be just like any other random congresswoman.
this thread is amazing.
Martin
OT: Wife got a jury summons for US District Court. She cares for the kids, so she’s an easy out of it, but how interesting are cases at that level? I’m thinking she might enjoy this if I can work out a way to deal with the critters. I’ve gotten state superior and municipal court before, but never U.S.
AlphaLiberal
@Frank Chow:
Nothing. wrong. with. questioning. an. official. act. of. an. elected. official.
And you selectively quoted Digby:
Centrists have made a mess of things. like not scheduling the vote on Bush tax cuts before the election. Or making more of a priority of the deficit than jobs during an employment recession. Heckuvajob! GOP loves ya!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Maude: Some of my old pals were truly shocked. I don’t think they realize the turn that place has taken with this cult of Jane.
Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)
@Roger Moore:
Exactly- People, keep the target in sight-
If this POS bill leads to bad things, its because the effing Tea Stains forced it.
If the next budget results in cuts to entitlement, its because the Tea Stains outmaneuvered the Dems.
If the media fails, its because the Fox/ Tea Stains corrupted the system
The drivers in all of the misery we are having are the Tea Stains, not the Dems.
If you want to elect better, stronger, smarter Dems, yes please do. But never confuse the Tea Stains with Dems, no matter how feckless or inept.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@aisce:
Ain’t it? Sociopaths gonna sociopath.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal: I’ll re-post this for you and wait for your bullshit rationalization:
From FDL
sadlyyes August 1st, 2011 at 6:15 pm
oh jeebus,maybe they put aa talking chip in her head….i
Alex S.
As far as I know her district is made for these bipartisan, radically serious bills. This vote is going to help her. And also, she will be a perfect candidate for the Senate. That will help the Dems. The 2012 election is too soon for her, I guess. But she might want to replace McCain.
Keith G
@TooManyJens: Possibly. He didn’t pop when I googled. Must be a disruption in the Force.
So that’s one or a dozen progressive somebodies now?
eric
sweet jeebus. the only thing more depressing than reading the know-nothing news-fo-tainment people talk about the bill is reading people that have NO effing clue how this is gonna play out. that would be just about everyone here. In some sense the endgame is all up to Obama int he form of Reid. We know every GOP selection to the Commission will gut the safety net and we know Pelosi’s crew won’t. The unknown is who harry Reid appoints to assure a 6-6 tie or a 7-5 conservative win. There is no way on god’s earth that Reid chooses his three senators without Obama’s blessing. The will be the moment of Obama’s redemption or true failing. Everything to date is sound and fury signifying nothing.
AlphaLiberal
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Ya got nuthin. Insults only.
So because Giffords voted for the raw deal, now we can’t criticize it? And now she may never, ever, be criticized again? Can you explain why without insults?
I honestly don’t understand why she chose this vote to make a dramatic and emotional (I was moved) reappearance. You could make a coherent case or you could sputter and swear. We have your answer, I guess. Just like ABL, all anger and spite and no logic.
Oh and someone rented a billboard she didn’t like so all progressives suck.
Heckuva job, centrists. You stand for nothing.
Corner Stone
Damn, Adam Green…must be a hell of a drug.
matt
It’s lame that she came back to vote for this – it’s like she came back to vote for the Patriot Act reauthorization or to start a war in Iraq or something.
TooManyJens
@Keith G:
It’s in his Twitter bio.
@AlphaLiberal:
Who the FUCK is saying that?
AlphaLiberal
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
I don’t like that quote you posted at all. It is offensive.
Here’s the part where you exhibit stupidity: That quote is different than saying “why did she pick that vote?”
burnspbesq
The yield on ten-year US Treasury securities is down to 2.66 percent.
Not only have the non-existent bond vigilantes continued to be non-existent, any rational person, even a rational person who failed introductory macro, should be able to grasp that it is hard to imagine better conditions for the Government to borrow a fuck-ton of money and use it to re-ignite the economy.
Republicans are not stupid. No one could be that stupid. They’re evil. They are deliberately inflicting suffering on people who have done nothing to deserve it.
eemom
@Samara Morgan:
Look brat, my boundless maternal instincts have occasionally enabled me to indulge your miniature insanity — but with your epsilon minus semi-moron comments today you have morphed from entertaining little scamp to tantrum-throwing toddler who’s exhausted but won’t admit it’s naptime.
In the words our beloved Sarah, off you fuck.
stinkdaddy
@Brian R.: Oh, Pelosi said so! Ok, well we know we can always take politicians at their words. Besides, it’s not like Reid gets to appoint anyone right?
Don
I obviously don’t know everything that was said about GG but I don’t see how saying “why now?” is mocking or disrespectful. This bill is a festering turd and the only thing it beats is doing nothing. It’s beyond the pale to wish Giffords was coming in for a vote that was for something that wasn’t a piece of shit? I don’t see that at all.
cyntax
@Corner Stone:
You mean this guy:
@AdamGreenOnline Washington, DC
Co-founder, Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC) at BoldProgressives.org (@BoldProgressive)
http://BoldProgressives.org
AlphaLiberal
@patroclus:
I agree it was great to see Rep Gaby Giffords there and it was one positive moment. We were talking about it last night. And it’s just amazing.
I think it is sullied, however, by the useless parasitic centrists who use it for yet another occasion to rip on progressives.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Don:
So have her hold off her return until January 2013?
burnspbesq
@AlphaLiberal:
Please feel free to join us in the real world. You’re currently living in fantasy-land.
Elections have consequences. All of this shit is on people who sat out 2010 because Obama hurt your fee-fees by failing to deliver things that were impossible to deliver. If that description includes you, then direct your hatred where it belongs, i.e., at yourself.
arguingwithsignposts
@AlphaLiberal:
Really?
AlphaLiberal
@Don:
It is not disrespectful. This is simply a hunting expedition to tear down progressives from the Obama loyalists.
You are right: that bill was a big stinking turd. “Super Congress” and all. But they want to silence anyone who does not applaud anything Obama does. Because they, apparently, think Obama is perfect.
Stranger
@Frank Chow:
Yeah, and her commenters all distinguished themselves, too.
I liked Digby better when I didn’t know who she was.
FlipYrWhig
@aisce:
That would be a better argument than pretending like the non-defense discretionary spending budget was comprised entirely of virtuous things.
TooManyJens
@AlphaLiberal:
You know, if you want to just sit around all day making shit up, I know lots of fanfic forums that would be happy to have you.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal: Listen, I don’t care what people think of her vote. That’s their business. When they start attacking her and making smart ass little jokes about her condition I’m going to speak up.
harlana
The tragic thing about all this is that now the entire national debate has shifted from creating jobs to cutting spending as a remedy for the economy(!?) And so now we, Dems, are saying yes, there must be cuts. In this economy and with 9.2% unemployment.
Cain
@RalfW:
Not only is it vile it calls into question whatever bonafides you have as a progressive. Let’s replay that comment shall we:
Read it. Let it resonate.
If you like default better, then fuck you, because it seals my opinion that you don’t give a shit about the causes you purport to care about. A global melt down so that you can teach the American people a lesson while in the same breath cry about healthcare, children, social security.. all which will be completely affected for I don’t know how long.
If you cared about those issues, you’d work to avoid default as well. Which means, that you share the same disbelief that tea partiers have about default causing problems. A short term pain. It’s not short term pain..
I blame our media for making this all about us vs them. The entire reporting has been this way. Better media, and better progressives please.
Elie
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
You got that right. Sociopaths gotta sociopath.
..and these are progressives? What the hell is happening to us? Remember when believing in liberal values meant listening to diverse opinions and expecting to work for change? Remember when folks thought it too work to make change and that set backs and hard slogs were to be expected? Remember Martin Luther King writing letters from FUCKING JAIL!!?
pete
Among the many things I love about ABL is the talent she has for eliciting comments from idiots that prove her point for her.
I don’t agree with Gifford’s vote, and I thanked my Congressperson for voting No (have you done that yet?), but I appreciate her courage and wish her well. I will always respect an opponent who goes to significant trouble to make a vote they believe in, even when I think they are wrong. And that goes double for someone with severe medical issues. Really, does anything else need to be said?
burnspbesq
@AlphaLiberal:
I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone try to silence you. Mocking you, or trying to help you understand why your views are wrong, those are not the same as silencing you.
TooManyJens
@Cain:
Which, lo and behold, is exactly what ABL said!
Thanks for saying it, though. Maybe people will understand it a little better coming from someone who’s not ABL.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Elie: There are plenty of people who remember and are still working hard at it. Just ask Kay. Most of ’em are just not posting to internet message boards.
Corner Stone
@cyntax: Yeah! Like that one tweet that was cited! By some guy 99.9999999% of America has never heard of!
Tell you what. You or ABL or anyone else here. Please finally for once and all certify something for us all here.
Is Adam Green powerful and speaks for a significant chunk of potential voters, or is he an insignificant grifter who’s gotta grift. And therefore speaks for not much of anything.
Which is it?
AlphaLiberal
@burnspbesq:
You speak in ignorance and don’t know what I did in the election, do you? Or anyone else? I worked and donated and voted. As did progressive activists everywhere.
I will repost this message I posted over at TPM after reading through dozens of posts slagging on progressive activists.
Progressives were, and are, out there working on winning elections. We were last fall. But when the actions of the Dem Party fail to inspire and rally the non-politically engaged voters, there is only so much we can do. If they perceive the Dems taking care of banksters and big business and not them, they think “why bother?” (When Obama courts cuts to Social Security and Medicare before an election, for example – not helpful).
Another example: not backing off of fights as they did on the Bush tax cuts last year, before the election: Dems Officially Decide To Delay Bush Tax Cut Vote Until After Election.
Never forget: it’s not the duty of voters to re-elect Dems regardless of their performance. It’s the Dems who have the duty and obligation to give voters a reason to turn out and vote to begin with. That begins with fighting for working people, not the rich and privileged.
Keep blaming the activists for the failures of party leadership and you will have fewer activists. We are out on the ground now in Wisconsin and we will be working – for someone – in 2012. We are not the enemy.
Corner Stone
Grifters gotta grift, or powerful advocate for a widely held position?
Which one?
AlphaLiberal
@burnspbesq:
Bullshit. All you have done is regurgitate a falsehood about progressives and sling insults.
arguingwithsignposts
@AlphaLiberal:
Oh, for fuck’s sake. Strawman much? Look, I’m about as big of an “Obot” as you can get outside of Gen. Stuck and ABL, but some of us can hold several thoughts in our heads at one time, like the fact that this is a shit sandwich, and Obama and the dems seem to have maneuvered things to a slightly less horrible ending.
And, yeah, I personally would have liked it if the dems had gotten more out of this. I don’t like it. But it doesn’t mean I’m going to take my vote and go home, because that would be *fucking stupid.*
But I don’t think Obama’s perfect. I think he’s better than the treasonous bastards on the other side. And I’ll take that for what it’s worth and hope the country can do better next time. And I don’t think most Obots would think he was perfect either. (not that I’m speaking for them, but give it a rest)
While I appreciate that it is the nature of Balloon Juice these days to deal with cardboard cutouts of actual people’s opinions, lets at least try to raise the bar a little bit.
ETA: And I renounce the broccoli mandate and primarying Obama.
Elie
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
You are absolutely right… just wanted to be dramatic… also wanted to remind these others here who don’t seem to remember — or maybe care either.
DonkeyKong
The 570 billion in cuts over the next ten years will be made against programs that don’t have deep pocket or well connected defenders on the Hill. Is this really hard to figure out.
What Chunky Bob (that’s not a forehead, that’s a fivehead) thinks right now about Obama 11th dimensional fingerbanging means nothing.
FlipYrWhig
@harlana:
If only someone had said that this whole thing was a manufactured crisis and that it was past time to get moving on job creation. Someone who was president. Today. Wait, it’ll come to me.
Lolis
@AlphaLiberal:
She has a statement explaining the Why Now? question. Reading is fundamental.
Nobody has still provided a link proving the WH or anyone else dragged her out to vote for this. It is bizarre the lack of agency some people have been assigning all of Congress. At DKos someone was writing about how Obama has shot the Democratic Party in the head by forcing all the Ds to vote for the bill. These meltdowns are irrational and deeply bizarre.
Corner Stone
@Cain: Righteous bro, righteous.
Keith G
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
That’s more than bad taste….. awful indeed. Was that an individual comment? Sort of what is happening here?
Who does she represent?
taylormattd
@Corner Stone: Sorry, was being kind of vague, because I didn’t want to describe it incorrectly. “New Media Political Consultant”. I.e., pooping out stupid tweets for Daily Kos, FDL, Talk Left, Atrios, Digby, etc., to parrot. Shit like this:
cyntax
@Corner Stone:
So if he’s not Obama’s liason to the netroots, it doesn’t matter?
Their website claims to have over 700,000 members so I’d say he’s not nobody (even though that’s most likely over-stated), but as BJ’s new ombudsman, why don’t you tell us what the bar should be for posting around here? And then we can all get in line.
Elie
@pete:
You got that right :-)
AlphaLiberal
@pete:
Yes, I thanked my Congresswoman.
No-one has made a logical case that I have seen of why it is wrong for Adam Green to question an official act of an elected official. I get the outrage, there is plenty. I don’t see why or why blaming all progressives is appropriate.
What I DO see is a continued effort to attack any progressive who criticizes Obama. And that is not the mark of democrats but of authoritarians. And, really, idiots out to seize upon the smallest, pettiest, thing to go out and attack progressives.
Just like the right wing, you want to destroy progressives, destroy FDL, destroy PCCC, destroy Adam Green. Just so you can get blind obedience to Your Leader.
Frank Chow
@AlphaLiberal: Selectively quoting? It’s actually worse than I portrayed because Digby accuses Dems of using Giffords and that Giffords didn’t place her vote on her own accord.
“Centrists have made a mess of things. like not scheduling the vote on Bush tax cuts before the election. Or making more of a priority of the deficit than jobs during an employment recession. Heckuvajob! GOP loves ya”
This side rant is ridiculous. That’s not even the argument. I agree they should’ve been talking about jobs, but you’re not helping whatsoever. This isn’t about questioning an elected official, this is about an element of the Left that is so cynical that they can’t differentiate between a honest politician in a moment of civility and the asshats in the Tea Party. And your accusation of centrism towards me is appallingly silly. How would you even know?
John Weiss
@arguingwithsignposts:
Right on.
El Cid
@arguingwithsignposts:
This is not allowed. You are now scheduled to meet with local movement leaders to assist you in realizing which thought in your head may be permitted at any given time. Such false beliefs must be rooted out.
AlphaLiberal
@Lolis:
Oh how helpful.
I know. I read it. It was lame. It’s manufactured outrage. ABL has a bright future on the right wing.
FlipYrWhig
@Lolis:
When fiscal conservatives vote for fiscally conservative bills, that doesn’t just _happen_, it has to be the product of a well-oiled and far-reaching machine.
arguingwithsignposts
@AlphaLiberal:
I think you answered your question in the very next paragraph.
Keep talking about “Your Leader” and “Obummer” and all that noise, and that’s what you should expect.
Corner Stone
@cyntax: You wanna get behind ABL and wank to the devil that is Adam Green? Be my guest.
Just sounds kinda ridonkulous to me. But, hey, far be it from me to tell you what fairy tale you can chase. Good luck.
Keith G
@TooManyJens: Sorry, I went to google.
In my Twitter bio, I am Queen of England.
jenn
Jesus Christ, God Almight Damn. A woman got shot in the head, miraculously not only didn’t die, but only a few months later is back at work, voting to prevent our nation from defaulting, and people here are fucking criticizing her for it?! I want to take a fucking 2×4 to the lot of you.
Re. the debt ceiling bill, I wanted a clean bill, I’m disappointed we didn’t get it, but … we didn’t default. We live to fight another day, and I bloody well intend to do it. If half the energy spent on spewing angst and anger on this blog were channeled into something, you know, useful, our country would be in a whole lot better shape. How many of the whiners on this blog have their Senators, their Congressmen, and the Whitehouse phone numbers in their cell phone? How many times have you contacted them in the past month? The past 6? Yeah, whining and bitching can be fun and cathartic, but if all it’s doing is demoralizing you, then it’s counterproductive. Stop bitching, and DO something.
/rant
Frank Chow
@Stranger: Yeah she’s definitely someone to read with a grain of salt.
hildebrand
Again, regardless of who said this and regardless of whether you agree with her vote or not, or even if you like her or not, the point is very simple – show some compassion. She was shot in the head, this is her first day back to work, show some basic human compassion.
I am not talking about the vote, the issue, the deal, progressives, centrists, teabaggers, firebaggers or anybody else – I am saying that showing some compassion and not mocking someone just back from a horrific attack is a good thing.
If some of you cannot see this – well, good luck to you, because you have some serious issues that have nothing to do with politics.
FlipYrWhig
@Frank Chow:
Everyone who isn’t the precise variety of paradoxically tough-talking and despair-filled asshole that has proliferated in the liberal blogosphere since 2005 is, by (their) definition, a centrist or a stealth Republican. No _true_ Scotsman would see things any differently.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Don’t fuck with Adam Green! God dammit man, have you no fucking respect?!
That dude’s got more insane followers than the crazy religious man in Indiana Jones : Temple of Doom
You betrayed -Sheba- Hamsher!
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: Asshole!
AlphaLiberal
@Frank Chow:
Where? i reread it and don’t see it. This?
WTF is wrong with that? It’s true! It was an uplifting moment in an otherwise very depressing proceeding! “Poignant” is not a bad thing. Really, man, WTF?
I guessed you are a centrist due to your obvious hostility toward progressives. Like ABL you seem to clutch at straws to manufacture outrage to bash progressives. Perhaps first impressions were wrong.
Look, idiots. Progressives are not the enemy here. That would be the Republicans, who were served by this bill.
Obama sure is The great Divider of the Dem Party, isn’t he? He’s got his loyalist attack dogs who will follow him over a cliff and attack any of his supporters who have the temerity to, unlike them, think for themselves.
Why don’t you guys sell us on this great bill? Why is it wonderful?
FlipYrWhig
@Frank Chow: A grain of salt carefully selected after the distillation of oceans of tears of outrage.
Frank Chow
@FlipYrWhig: Thank you for clarifying. I’ll make a note of that.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Keith G: She’s a regular at FDL and the specific comment was one of several
sadlyyes August 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm
111
In response to Kassandra @ 81
no way…..truly brain injured….im shocked…she had platinum care…fuc her too
and another PROGRESSIVE reply
onitgoes August 1st, 2011 at 4:18 pm
132
In response to sadlyyes @ 111
she [Giffords] had HAS platinum care FOR LIFE
more accurate quote. That’s why Giffords (who I’m glad is recovering) doesn’t give a sh*t about her constituents. Giffords has platinum benefits for the rest of her life (and for her family too) thanks to the US taxpayer. Screw the small people, though. Giffords got HERS, EFF you.
cyntax
@Corner Stone:
So lemme get this straight, criticizing Green is pointless cause he’s either nobody, or somebody, or somebody you don’t know, but it’s worth your time to criticize me and ABL for saying his remark was off-color.
By your logic that makes your criticism the weakest sauce yet.
Good luck to you sir–you’ll need it I think.
AlphaLiberal
In case I wasn’t clear enough before, I thought that was a dumb and offensive statement.
BUT. It was made by ONE MAN. Not Adam Green. Not all progressives. So why does it set off a bashfest of progressives?
I get it, you guys believe in collective guilt. You have some pretty skeezy company.
General Stuck
Adam Green is a race baiting grifter who claims to be a leftist. He goes on teevee on regular basis and delivers lies concerning Obama and his supporters. Just like Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald do. And all claim to speak for the liberal/progressives of the country. They don’t accurately describe their followers as internet acitivists, or which is a tiny itty bitty teeny sliver of the dem party, to the extent they belong to it, nor to the liberal/prog base at large, most of which do not know FDL or No QUARTER even exits. Nor Balloon Juice.
As long as these flim flammers do this, make themselves something they are not, on the most powerful medium there is, the boob tube, then they can eat shit and die, and take whatever I or ABL, or anyone else that wants to confront them on their bullshit. And they can return rhetorical fire for effect, if they so choose. They are not on ‘my team’, they are on the other team. The leftist tea tard team. Corner stone and fuckhead team.
As Dougj once opined in a posting, it is choosing up sides time, for all of us. If you want to piss and moan, when less than optimal results arrive from the sausage grinder, then fine for all. But close minded rejectionist posturing concerning the only real possibility of democrats keeping the WH. puts you squarely on the other team, the GOP team, or at least their enabler, as a third party of morons from the left.
We are in a war of sorts, if you haven’t noticed. And while the debt ceiling battle was no win for dems, it was also not that for the wingnut. If you doubt that, go read some of their bloggings about it. But they don’t put out the sustained assault on their own side as professional and unprofessional lefters do.
And for gawd sakes progs, quit pretending you are loyal democrats when you bash the prez of your party in the most one sided fashion possible. Here is a hint, your loyalties lie elsewhere, so grow up and take the responsibility for those loyalties and proud to be idiots, other than the pathetic thumb sucking butthurt titty babies.
arguingwithsignposts
@AlphaLiberal:
I think the idea that Giffords is not acting of her own agency is upsetting to some. I could see where that would rub people the wrong way. Nobody likes to be accused of using someone with an obviously huge obstacle to overcome as a political weapon. Maybe we should inspect her countertops.
Elie
@FlipYrWhig:
Well that is just too poetic, Flip…
harlana
omg, Pat Buchanan just called the president “your boy” to Al Sharpton
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal: You come up in here making judgements about everyone’s politics and then whine with shit like this
“You speak in ignorance and don’t know what I did in the election, do you? Or anyone else? I worked and donated and voted. As did progressive activists everywhere.”
You really are a punk.
Heliopause
@hildebrand:
If Giffords is, at this point in her recovery, beyond reproach from criticism because of her condition then she is incompetent to cast a vote in the U.S. House of Representatives on issues of monumental importance. If that is the case then parading her into the House was an act of supreme cynicism, borderline criminality, perpetrated on both the general public and Ms. Giffords herself.
If she is competent to cast votes in the U.S. House on issues of monumental import then she is fair game like any other politician.
Which is it?
Corner Stone
@cyntax: No, you do not have it right.
If you’re going to put up a bullshit post that says “Progressives attack”, then maybe you should cite something further than one tweet by one person who no one has ever heard of.
His tweet may or may not be worth the time to wank off to. Whatever.
Personally, no one but ABL and her Hit Brigade have ever heard of him across the toobz. Tell me the truth – would you know who he was without ABL’s tireless slagging of him?
But it’s one fucking yokel. No one. Has ever. Fucking heard. Of.
Is he nobody? Or is he somebody? Do you know?
But criticize away fearless one.
AlphaLiberal
@arguingwithsignposts:
I have never said “Obummer” in my life. Lie much?
It’s a fact that this portions of web site and others among the Obama loyalist contingent routinely set out to bash and otherwise damage people such as I mention above. ABL did as much last month or so against Jane Hamsher over a fucking bus ad. Adam Green, same thing. PCCC, same thing. FDL, same thing.
Show me where ABL has anything nice to say about any progressive anywhere? She’s like a self-appointed Obama loyalty enforcer.
And, you know what, all it does is make people want to criticize Obama more. It’s dumb.
Keith G
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): And she is a horrible person.*
How many divisions does she command?
Edit: *And I am taking you at faith, as there is no desire on my part to patronize that place.
pete
@AlphaLiberal: Just like the right wing, you want to destroy progressives, destroy FDL, destroy PCCC, destroy Adam Green. Just so you can get blind obedience to Your Leader.
No. I did not write that, I do not think that, you are simply making stuff up. Why would you imagine that when you write fantasy it’s persuasive?
I commended my Congressperson for voting NO — I wrote that down, you could read it, it was in the same post to which you were replying. That is, um, not the position of blind obedience to Obama, whom I assume is the person you are calling “Your Leader.” Care to apologize?
arguingwithsignposts
@General Stuck:
Not sure I agree with this. The Tea Party True Believers will definitely do so. Erick son of Erick will attack people who voted for this as sure as the sun will rise in the east. I’ve actually heard Dana Loesch (Big Dumbass Breitbart “journalist”) say as much in a roundtable discussion. They don’t give a shit about winning if the winning isn’t pure.
Corner Stone
Ward Churchill!
Bill Ayers!
Reverend Wright!
Broccoli!
Stalin!
Bender
Obviously, she meant intellectually “armed and dangerous” with the pamphlets she was passing out (full quote that the left will never print because they are liars by nature: “I’m going to have materials for people when they leave. I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax, because we need to fight back.”), which would be readily apparent if you hadn’t dishonestly edited her remarks. You’re worse than O’Keefe.
Well in light of the actual facts, that made you dead wrong after the shooting, of course, and nine toes away from sensibility right now.
So even when I show 15 example of the violent and hateful “terrorism” rhetoric from the left this week, “both sides don’t do it?” So even when they do it, they don’t do it? But when they do it, it’s different, somehow? Doesn’t that kind of thinking make you a delusional moron?
Yeah. Right. Perfect sense. You should tell that one to Al Sharpton. When he wants people to die in a fire, they die in a fire, baby!
B-b-b-but, Bachmann said the word “armed!” You do realize this makes you look like a loon and a hypocrite, right? No, that would require a level of self-awareness that is always in short supply in the HiveMind.
FlipYrWhig
@AlphaLiberal:
The real enemy? Obama, apparently.
It’s a sucky concept that’s sure to be executed in a worrisome way without vigilance from the outside. But it specifically protects the major social safety-net programs, backloads the cuts, and should do some good in negating the charge that the economy is bad because Obama ran up the national credit card.
Viewed as an opportunity to answer “What Would Democrats Cut?”, there’s some potential there: how to cut back government spending _without_ touching liberal priorities. Take the “conservative” imperative to cut spending and work to do it in the most “liberal” possible way.
Viewed as an opportunity to help the economy, it blows. So stop looking at it as that.
hildebrand
@Heliopause: You are willfully missing my point. Criticize all you want – at great length if you so choose – but do so in a manner that shows you have an ounce of human compassion. That is all that I am asking. Are you such a soul-less monster that you cannot even do that? Why is this so hard to understand?
Frank Chow
@AlphaLiberal: Uh really? “Don’t know whose idea it was, but it’s very clever” It’s pretty clear right there. So WTF, mate?
Yes, your first impression was wrong especially since I wasn’t bashing, I stated it wasn’t some progressives finest hours yesterday.
As for the “Look idiots” nice non-starter there, I’ll have to use that next time I’m pitching a sale. And no one is saying that progressives are the enemy, from what I can tell they are saying “get out of your own damn way.”
I suggest a beer summit that will solve everything!
Christian
Gabby Giffords is a Blue Dog Democrat, which is what you are going to get as a Democrat in that district in that part of the country.
She had an unfortunate (to be mild) attack on her, which she heroically survived.
Her return is orchestated (in part to change the discussion on an odious bill) and someone makes an impolite comment. For all the sympathy I can muster for Giffords, there are a lot more people, who are much more unfortunate, who are hurt by this bill (if you believe anything left of center).
So this is the real time to beat the dead horse of you don’t like the PCCC.
Do you ever post anything substantive or do you just wage purity campaigns?
Ken
Does every fucking thread here have to be Obots vs Firebaggers? Really?
Corner Stone
@General Stuck:
You’re a registered Independent, aren’t you? Registered I ?
AlphaLiberal
@Corner Stone:
Thank you!! This is a time dishonored tradition, quite like comment trolling where the right wing would find some comment buried on a web site and then hold that up to bash all progressives/dems/liberals everywhere. It is offensive.
I guess we can call it “tweet trolling.” Looking for some minute offense in the Great Twitter Sea to pluck out use to bash all progressives.
And the fact that it is the same behavior, with the same targets, as the right wing, should be enough to make people pause and think. It’s not, sadly.
arguingwithsignposts
@AlphaLiberal:
Sorry, I should have specified that I wasn’t aiming both of those terms at you. But I’ve seen enough “progressives” use the term, and others (like Dear Leader) that I tend to lump all those terms together.
If you want respect for your position, talk about the president, or Obama. The “Your Leader” stuff is of the same fabric, imho.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Keith G: I’m missing your point I think.
El Cid
@Ken:
Sometimes they’re about dogs.
FlipYrWhig
@AlphaLiberal:
Just to clarify, you’re the same person who earlier wrote this?
Isn’t this kind of like saying, “You guys unfairly treat people like me like we’re all alike. You’re all like that”?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal: Aw, it’s ooooofensive. I bet your mommy will cuddle you till you get over it.
A Humble Lurker
@AlphaLiberal:
Because they’re totally the same thing. You are a moron.
@Corner Stone:
He can’t be both?
JLM
Did not make it through all the comments so this may have been addressed already.
There were comments on TPM yesterday trashing Giffords for this vote. That makes more than one person on the left.
I love ABL but it’s Tucsonans, no i needed.
As a constituent of Giffords in the 8th in Tucson who has voted for her in the past and hope to do so again in the future, the reality is that a very liberal democrat cannot be elected in this district. The 8th is much bigger than Tucson, it encompasses Sierra Vista, Ft Huachuca, Benson, Bisbee and other fairly conservative areas. The fact that Grijalva continuously get reelected in the district next door is in and of itself a mini miracle and his district is more left leaning than Gabby’s.
Corner Stone
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Oh God no! OH GOD [email protected]!!GYVCXRDUGWQO:Nndsa;dkjv szvas,m dsdfxc zxdc
Sorry bout that. They sent a kill team after me for knowing who she was online.
I engaged the unassing mechanism and cleared the AO.
Stranger
@Ken:
Short answer – no, but every thread devolves to that anyway.
AlphaLiberal
@Ken:
No shit. I used to come here to enjoy the site but anymore I get a fat finger poked in my eye every visit, like this shitty post by ABL.
And, I don’t even surf FDL!
Gotta hand it to Obama, he sure can divide the Dem base!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Corner Stone: 5×5
Mnemosyne
@AlphaLiberal:
And he did that, when, exactly? I heard all kinds of chatter from progressives about how he was totally going to do it and then nothing happened. I was told at least five or six times that he was going to announce cuts and … nothing. I had several commenters on this very blog assure me that he was going to announce cuts during the State of the Union address in January and — surprise, surprise — nada. Now I’m being told that there are cuts in this legislation even though Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are specifically exempted.
That’s probably what drives me craziest — you seem to be reacting to rumors and theories and not to actual legislation. When the actual legislation turns out to not be so bad — like with the budget deal in December that turned out to be a bunch of previously-scheduled cuts — it immediately goes down the memory hole in favor of the Next Worst Thing Obama Ever Did.
Corner Stone
@A Humble Lurker:
Sure can. Is he? Do you know who he is without teh googleschmertz machine?
Anya
@Samara Morgan: You are hurting the issue more than helping. … You are just repeating the same damn illogical points so would you so kindly STFU
Steve
@General Stuck:
That’s all very interesting, but part of the problem is that Adam Green said something in this case that isn’t particularly offensive. ABL, like yourself, seems to hate him, so this post is about him, but the point would have been much more effective if it had been made about Bob Brigham or any number of other loudmouths. I saw plenty of comments that offended me right here at BJ (shocking, I know).
Instead we ended up with a bunch of people saying “wait, so it’s offensive merely to disagree with Giffords’ vote?” A fair point, unless you can tell me what was so awful about what Adam Green said.
Stillwater
@AlphaLiberal:
So, all the bitching about Obama really is due to hurt feelings.
General Stuck
@arguingwithsignposts:
I agree, the point is made. The wingers do not agree they were successful at what they attempted, and are expressing their discontent. And that evidence quashes the pro left meme that they got everything they wanted and Obama sold out the farm.
The truth lies in the fact that neither side won, and both sides lost. Wingers got some cuts, but they didn’t the ACA and entitlements broadly. Dems didn’t give them what they wanted, but enough to piss off the left wing, and demonstrate what i was talking about the ease of which the pro left pundits and activists attack their own with zeal. And for something that is false, the great win for the other side. The right wing side.
The right wing is reacting to that reality in a rational way, the left wing is not. Therein lies our problem, or one of our problems.
AlphaLiberal
@arguingwithsignposts:
I was making a point (as you well know and ducked for this diversionary argument). Which is that the hatred from the Obama loyalists towards progressives has nothing to do with anything except for loyalty to a leader. It does not involve a principle or an issue. Just simple hatred for criticism of Your Leader.
Whatever. I’m just sorry I need to ally with jerks like ABL et al. Balloon Juice sure has gone down the tubes.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal: So leave you jerk.
Stillwater
@Mnemosyne: it immediately goes down the memory hole in favor of the Next Worst Thing Obama Ever Did.
They’ll never forgive him for beating Hillary.
Corner Stone
@Steve:
ABL hates Adam Green because he has made the grievous error in judgment of questioning Obama and/or Obama supporters.
President Stuck hates Adam Green because Stuck’s not smart enough to think for himself and just wants some succor for doing what he thinks will earn him a belly skritch at some future point.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@AlphaLiberal: “What I DO see is a continued effort to attack any progressive who criticizes Obama.”
What I see are a bunch of whiny emo-progressives who attack the president and when called on it they claim it’s just criticism. There is a big difference between criticism and an attack but these asshats are deliberately conflating the two to cover their bullshit attacks. Calling them on it puts them on the defensive, with their claiming that ‘Obots are trying to be authoritarians and shut down any criticism of the president’. Bullshit, absolute bullshit.
This is their way of turning the calling out of their attack back on the person who is confronting them. IOW, they are always right and everyone else is wrong. We are seeing the same thing in here about Giffords and criticism of the bill, with them claiming that saying mean shit about Giffords is fair criticism and that they are only upset with her voting for the bill. When called on that bullshit they again claim that the ‘Obots are trying to shut down any criticism of Giffords to protect the president’.
Fuck each and every one of you emo-progs. Fuck you all. You aren’t progressives, you’re stupid, mean assholes.
Keep bringing it on ABL, you set great traps for these assholes and it’s fun kicking them and their stupid shit around.
arguingwithsignposts
@AlphaLiberal:
I responded to your argument earlier in the thread, in case you missed it.
aisce
@ flipyrwhig
that’s not my point. you’re acting like the mirror image of rightwingers who want to balance the budget by cutting public broadcasting and birth control.
the federal budget is not unknowable. you want to know how much ethanol subsidies or faith based initiatives cost? you can just look it up. you don’t have to hide in a corner and start mumbling about “corporate looting” and “flimflam.”
not that any of this matters anyway, since the deal is a fraud. for now. i don’t know what the trigger is or will be or what it will do. but the first trillion is all bullshit. any monkey can slap an arbitrary cap on outyear spending. no programs will really get cut. real spending will still increase year over year, just below the rate of inflation, and spending per capita will still be higher than it was ten years ago.
it’s an “austerity budget” to “help the economy” that’s neither particularly austere nor helpful. because politics is a joke.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Fuckin A Dawg.
Stranger
@Stillwater:
They’ll never forgive him for beating Hillary.
Nope, never.
Mnemosyne
@AlphaLiberal:
Let me explain it to you with a true story to serve as a metaphor: my mother in law just had thyroid surgery. The labs came back and it was cancerous, but it’s a form that has a 95% survival rate with fairly minimal radiation treatment.
Now, are we all leaping around the house cheering about how wonderful it is that she has cancer? No, of course not. But we know it could have been much worse and we’re very happy that it’s treatable.
Do you have a vague understanding now that there’s a whole lot of room between “wonderful bill on the merits” and “bill that managed to step on the brakes right before we went off the cliff”?
Dennis SGMM
@General Stuck:
Well why don’t you let us know where lies the line between legitimate criticism of Obama and bashing? I’m a progressive and I’ve worn out more shoe leather going door to door for Democrats than you ever will. I’ll continue to do so while you’re still vainly pounding your keyboard insisting that if we just clap louder everything will be fine.
Heliopause
@hildebrand:
I obviously have far more compassion than you do, since I don’t think that Rep. Giffords should be paraded around like a cartoon character for the amusement of people like you. I think people in her position ought to be left in peace and privacy to recover and not made into reality show fools. Conversely, if she is competent to cast that vote, she owns it. It’s that simple.
Sad Iron
Can somebody clarify for me what this post is about? Is it about what Joe Biden said? Is it about Michelle Bachman? Is it about that guy’s tweet which doesn’t really seem so ridiculous given DC. Anyone?
pete
@AlphaLiberal: To repeat, I opposed the debt ceiling vote, so I think it’s fair to say I am not an Obama loyalist. Why did you imply I was? Merely because I disagree with you about my personal (not political) admiration for one individual? That is foolish.
I would really appreciate the apology I previously asked for.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: If anything’s dispiriting about the Era of Obama, it’s having seen in action the reading and listening skills of many self-avowed liberals, lefties, and progressives.
AlphaLiberal
@Stillwater:
No, not at all. It’s about how he has abandoned the unemployed with his embrace of deficit fetishism.
It’s about how Obama refuses to stand up to the right wing and, instead, keeps caving into them and encouraging them. He can criticize the left, not so much Republicans.
It’s about how Obama’s debt deal, like his support for the Bush tax cuts, will put Democrats in a worse position in November 2012 by driving up unemployment (not that the Obots give a shit about the unemployed).
It’s about how Obama and the Dems are so fucking bad at politics! Obama refused to include the debt ceiling in the Bush tax cut capitulation because he trusted Boehner.
Or how Obama and the Dems refused to hold the vote on the bush tax cuts before the election, when it would have fucked up the Republicans.
Or how Obama has taken to use the bully pulpit we all helped him win to voice support for Republican economic dogma. Or how Obama abandoned tried-and-true and direly needed Keynesianism.
It’s about how Obama let the banksters get away with it and no bankers have been indicted for their criminal activity.
And yes, it’s also about feelings because these action make people (regular voters, not most activists) feel like Democrats are out for themselves, not the working people. And that depresses turnout (for which this sorry lot at BJ will blame progressives).
For starters. Does that clarify a little for you? I know, you guys will now spew content-free insults – just like the right wingers! You have a lot in common!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@FlipYrWhig: Where were you when Hube the Cube ran for president? None of this is new.
Stranger
I can barely believe what I’m reading as this thread continues to deteriorate.
Mnemosyne
@AlphaLiberal:
Why, hello, Pot! Have you met the Kettle yet? Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot.
General Stuck
@Steve:
please stop with the emo that I hate Adam Green, or anyone on the left. I oppose them, because in the politics we discuss here, they want something other than what I want.
The right wing, at times, I do hate, but not all of them. usually, unless when they do as a group something really fucked up, like invade Iraq, or use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip.
ABL is attacking him, to discredit him, same as political activists on both sides due to those they oppose. And that is at the pinnacle of issues, the presidency and reelection of Barack Obama. That Green and his acolytes have positioned themselves to oppose. It is not a case of political debate between those on your side,
It is political warring, and usually not personal, but sometimes it is, when those claiming to be on your side, attack for the purposes of destroying, such as the presidency of Obama, something that others value. That can get personal, especially if you have black skin in this country, and all that comes with that heritage. You might want to cut ABL a break for passion on this subject.
Politics are ruthless this way, and has always been, due to the very high stakes involved. And none so higher stakes than our current condition. But “hate” is a powerful word, and for most of us, doesn’t apply to those we confront.
Stillwater
I’m getting keener to the view that Firebaggers are Teabaggers who vote D. They’re bitter old, white racists who know nothing of politics and want their social programs, dammit!
The young Firebaggers compensate by being especially stupid.
Anya
@Stillwater:
Kinda reminds you of the “Obama was mean to us, so America gets it” crowd. More and more our progressive guardians are resembling wingnuts.
Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m sure that we’d all feel better if the self-avowed liberals, lefties, and progressives just stopped pointing out that today’s Democrats really aren’t somewhere to the right of Richard Milhaus Nixon.
Corner Stone
@Sad Iron:
Sure thing, happy to. Lots of right wing nutjobs said some nasty shit. They are cited at the top.
One unheard of guy sent a middle of the road tweet.
And there you have it, a post titled “Progressives Attack Gabby!”
FlipYrWhig
@aisce:
No, I’m acting like it’s irresponsible to play word games to suggest that “non-defense discretionary spending” is just budget-speak for All Good Things, and hence that any cuts to it make the baby flying spaghetti monster cry. What I objected to was narrow: the contention that, according to the piece DonkeyKong excerpted, “That’s budget-speak for the pile of money the government invests in the nation’s safety and future.” That’s bullshit-speak.
So why is it such a disaster? If it’s possible to craft a budget that improves the numbers through a lot of sleight-of-hand that doesn’t hurt anybody, why should we be opposed to that? Sounds like the best possible result.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Corner Stone: Not buying what I posted huh?
Corner Stone
@Stillwater: I think you’re being mislead, but that’s up to you either way.
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM: Hopefully when they do so they point to actual facts. I don’t have any issue with that. But there’s SO MUCH bullshit that people just swallow instantly.
Sad Iron
@Corner Stone: Much obliged and thanks for taking the time. I thought it might be something like that, but I wanted to be sure.
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM: Hopefully when they do so they point to actual facts. I don’t have any issue with that. But there’s SO MUCH bullshit that people just swallow instantly, and repeat. Starting with any number of claims that “Obama hasn’t said X.”
AlphaLiberal
@pete:
Good for you for opposing the Raw Deal. I don’t see where I insulted you. If I did and you didn’t deserve it, I apologize.
But this whole post started, from the headline, with an insult and they continue. So we would probably have a better conversation elsewhere. This is pretty much surfing in a swamp.
@Mnemosyne:
Sorry about your mother-in-law.
Obviously. Are you always so patronizing? And why attack Adam Green over a simple, on-the-issues statement if you don’t like the bill?
I think the answer is that people like ABL are simply Obama loyalty enforcers. She’s on a tear to tear down progressives. That’s what she does. Will you go along with her or stand up to her?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@AlphaLiberal: “I think the answer is that people like ABL are simply Obama loyalty enforcers.”
Change “loyalty enforcers” to “thugs” and everyone can see where AlphaLiberal is coming from.
Riiiight?? :)
hildebrand
@Heliopause: If it comes out that she was truly paraded about without her consent – I agree with you, it would be wrong and grotesque.
If she did make this choice, yes, I agree she owns the vote. Absolutely.
But you see, my concern is with the comment “wasn’t injured enough to stop voting like a blue dog”. The operative phrase isn’t blue dog, it is “wasn’t injured enough”. That is the problem, or at least that is my problem with all of this.
Here is the kicker – I am not even close to thrilled about the bill. But then again, my comments were never about the bill.
General Stuck
@Dennis SGMM:
I don’t give a shit what you have done Dennis, You can say and do whatever you want, and I will do the same. Please stop with the credentialing of being a more pure this or that. It is embarrassing when folks do that. We live in today, not yesterday, and it matters a bit more what you do today, rather than the past. At least to me. And if you notice, it is pretty rare for me to initiate contact with you on this blog.
arguingwithsignposts
@Corner Stone: No, you have it wrong. I think the gist of the comments, at least is:
OMFG WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!
NO, WE’RE NOT!
YES, WE ARE!
rinse, repeat.
Keith G
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Easy to do as I am being too brief. Was trying to continue my thread-long notion that the comments of a few piss ant individuals did not earn the lead-in idea that Progressives attack Gabby Gifford without a qualifying phrase such as “a few unimportant”.
Mary Jane
Nice blog you had here, John. BJ has been my first click of the day for over a year. Rarely posted but always read.
Now that the firebaggers have dug in, fuck it. If I want to read misinformed rants and poutrage, there are more entertaining venues.
This place has become an excellent example of somewhat intelligent people with an embarrassing lack of common sense.
FlipYrWhig
@Stillwater: Meh. Teabaggers are just the John Birch Society with Gadsden flags, and “firebaggers” have pretty much the same views as the people who didn’t want Humphrey to be the candidate in 1968. These are age-old political divides.
For that matter, Cato of Utica was so committed to opposing tyranny that he killed himself rather than live on after being defeated by Julius Caesar; that’s pretty much the archetype for declaring that the system is so corrupt you can no longer in good conscience work within it.
Stillwater
@Corner Stone: Maybe. I look at the Digby-esque critiques and resulting conspiracy nonsense and don’t see anything in there but a desperate search to confirm what they already believe. I don’t see any facts. Or the convenient exclusion of others. Eg., when the Dems controlled both houses, Obama could simply not pass legislation to the left any particular Dem senator – Lieberman, Nelson, Landreiu… Yet, who did the FB Brigade blame?
Obama isn’t a progressive. He never advertised himself as one. So given Congress and his own pre-election platform, I don’t get the Obama derangement.
TO be pissed off at the policies being enacted is entirely different, and justified. But the criticism here ought to clearly be the Dem Party as a whole. And face it, most of those cats in the Senate are veryvery conservative.
AlphaLiberal
@Mnemosyne:
What the? If I disagree with people who constantly attack progressives on the pettiest of excuses that’s the same thing as defending a leader?
No. No it’s not. I think the attacks in progressives (“you all stayed home and put Republicans in power”) are false and insulting. So I push back. That would be different.
I posted a thoughtful post about all how erroneous, dumb and damaging is all the bashing of progressives, here. It’s pretty telling that that post is ignored entirely (near as I can tell).
Well I am off to do phone calls for Wisconsin recall candidates. hope the bile subsides at Balloon Juice soon!
aisce
@ flipyrwhig
because the deal isn’t just 900B+ in deferred phony cuts? it’s 2.5T, and while people want to spin about defense spending and medicare providers, when you start talking about numbers like that without entitlements on the table…well, you’re slicing the budget up like michael myers. nobody should want to see that trigger get pulled four months from now. the economy would be displeased.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@FlipYrWhig: So you think Hube was the right candidate? Really?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@AlphaLiberal:
I posted a thoughtful post
Now that is funny.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Mary Jane:
Stick around. I’ve been here for six years now and this shit happens in waves and the regulars are used to it. Besides, it’s fun to play Shoot the Fish in the Barrel.
Or is it Whack a Doof? Either way, it adds a bit of a diversion to the day. If it gets too bad for you, get Cleek’s excellent pie filter.
Then all the idiots will talk about is pie and everyone loves them some pie! :)
@AlphaLiberal: “Well I am off to do phone calls for Wisconsin recall candidates. hope the bile subsides at Balloon Juice soon!“
It just did. Thank you.
pete
@AlphaLiberal: Thank you for the apology.
Let me explain: You quoted my statement, and then said, after an expression of frustration that frankly made it clear that you had not read my comment carefully, “… you want to destroy progressives, …” etc., which sure made it sound like by “you” you meant me.
I am willing to accept your assurance that you did not mean that, but I would also point out that the generic “you” can be extraordinarily offensive, as in “you people” etc etc. The risk is always that you attribute views to people who do not hold them, and that is not constructive.
I suggest you post a little slower.
Mnemosyne
@AlphaLiberal:
I’m just matching your tone, particularly when you decide that all of us “Obots” don’t know anything about the bill and only supported passing it because we just luuuuurve the president.
Because, unlike Mr. Green, I think the bill was necessary to avert disaster. I think all of the 14th amendment and “giant platinum coin” rescue plans were wishful thinking masquerading as solutions for people who didn’t want to face the abyss we were looking into if this bill or something like it didn’t pass. And unlike DougJ, I don’t think that an impeachment would have been a great thing for the stability of the country.
As I said, there’s a difference between thinking that this bill was a great idea on the merits and thinking that it’s not great but kept us from plunging off a cliff, and yet every time I point out that IMO it kept us from disaster, someone accuses me of thinking it’s the Bestest Bill Evah!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@pete: I suggest he/she stays on the phone bank.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
So what? you’re a Mccain voter.
Steve
@General Stuck:
I wouldn’t exactly call it emo, maybe because I think I’m a little too old to be accused of emo. Let’s just briefly recap what you wrote in the post I responded to.
My reaction, in a measured post where the strongest language was calling Bob Brigham a loudmouth, was to say that it sure sounds like you hate this Adam Green person.
And the result is that you are now accusing me of being the emo one! Well golly gee whiz.
Mnemosyne
@AlphaLiberal:
Pushing back with equally false and insulting attacks is not doing something different. Hence the pot and kettle.
Good luck with the calls — as a former (temporary) Wisconsinite, I’m following everything closely.
General Stuck
@Steve:
Maybe you are new here. But everything I said that you quoted is standard pol speech for this blog. Not personal, though I could see where someone new could get that impression. You were invoking and associating my words with the powerful emo word of “hate”, that is why I used the term emo. Whether you delivered it in a measured way or not. I hope this answers your question.
No one of Importance
@DonkeyKong:
“ABL, Balloonjuice’s official cuckoo clock.”
DonkeyKong, newest recruit to the pie filter.
Djur
Any spending reduction right now is bad. If it turns out we’ve been spending $10 million a year to the Time Cube guy, I’d rather keep him funded than take $10 million out of the economy.
“cannot believe @rep_giffords chose this vote to make her comeback.”
That is not off-color. That’s a mild criticism. What this Brigham asshole said was off-color, and he can go fuck himself. And those random FDL commenters can also go fuck themselves.
The only issue I have with what Adam Green said (and I don’t know him from the other Adam) is that he is apparently enough of an idiot to think that Rep. Giffords, a Blue Dog, would not vote for a bill which Blue Dogs support. Just because people deified her as some kind of progressive martyr doesn’t mean she’s somehow obligated to change her politics and play the part.
Dennis SGMM
@General Stuck:
Except that I worked for Democrats in 2010 and I’ll do so in 2012,regardless. I’m too old and too many miles on to believe that the work that I do for the party in any way empowers me.
When push comes to shove I’m just another Democrat. And being just another Democrat I’m comfortable with defining you as the the Johnny Come Lately shitbird that you are.
TooManyJens
@Heliopause:
The next person who posts one goddamn shred of evidence that she didn’t do this of her own free will will be the first.
Danny
Amen, but would have preferred “nutroot” or something over “progressive” in the headline. Let’s do what we can to keep the Progressive brand untainted by the loonies.
pete
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Phone banking is good. Listening is important, especially there.
General Stuck
@Dennis SGMM:
Whatever. I like it when the gloves are off. Do Obama a favor, and stay at home this time, and just continue to pump out volumes of barely disguised racist bullshit even more disguised as honest criticism. You fuckers think we are stupid?
MikeMc
Are people in these comments actually accusing the Dems of using Gabriel Giffords as a prop against her will? That’s fucking sick. The far left is no better than the far right. On both sides, ignorance is only outpaced by arrogance. The difference is the far left can’t get anyone elected and the far right can. Both wings are a fucking joke.
Wee Bey
We got outworked.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/study-tea-partiers-outworked-democrats-in-debt-fight.php?ref=fpb
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts: Um, no.
FlipYrWhig
@Stillwater:
I think this bill looks a lot like what a compromise between, say, Mark Warner and Tom Coburn would look like. That’s why progressives don’t like it. Because it fairly well embodies, IMHO, the preferences of the rightmost 60% of the Democratic party. That’s actually a majority of the Democratic party. Sad but true. YMMV.
Corner Stone
@Dennis SGMM: Ok, you’ve just got the “racist” hammer applied to you. It’s a fairly standard technique for President Stuck.
arguingwithsignposts
@Corner Stone: What, not enough “You’re a racist” “Fuck off, emoprog”?
LanceThruster
Seeing Gabby Giffords (who I knew nothing about before the horrifying attack on her) always reminds me now of what we almost lost because of a deranged psychopath. She is a marvelous human being.
I am glad she came in to ensure her vote was added to the fray. I also saw a female Congressional rep the other day on MSNBC say she voted against it as a protest vote because of some of the spending cuts incorporated into it, but if her’s was the deciding vote, she said she probably would’ve voted in favor.
I can agree with that.
Steve
@General Stuck: I don’t know which of us has been posting longer. I was here back when John still hadn’t figured out that DougJ was a spoof, and when Senator John Cornyn used to post here under the name “Darrell,” but BJ was around for a long time before all that.
Still, I’m just asking you to take a step back and consider the following. You’re suggesting that normal people say things like “pathetic thumb sucking butthurt titty babies” but only immature emo types use the word “hate.” That’s a mighty odd view, my friend.
Quiddity
@eemom:
Totally agree. The woman was used.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts: You could always add a few dashes of that, especially if President Stuck or President Odious Manatee shows up.
But the comments are fairly routine given the garbage of a post to start with.
Tell me you got your rumble buckets rumbling after reading one tweet by someone no one has ever heard of.
Stillwater
@FlipYrWhig: I agree with you about the bill representing a compromise that most of the caucus is entirely comfortable with. I disagree with you that that’s why progressives don’t like it. They would dislike any bill that conceded anything to the GOP, and insist that those concessions were part of a Grand Bargain and blah blah blah. The simple fact that a compromise was necessary here is something they fundamentally reject. Cuz Obama coulda done this or that ages ago. But he didn’t. So he wanted it. QED.
General Stuck
@Steve:
alright, point taken, I withdraw the emo descriptor, but the ‘hate’ designation stands as inaccurate, you can believe it, or not. Free country, my friend.
MikeMc
@Corner Stone: @Corner Stone: What do you think Obama should have done? What would have been your strategy? What would have been your winning move, jag-off?
Tehanu
@Mike M:
Absolutely. I’m glad the victim of a horrible crime is better. I’m sorry she saw fit to vote for that POS bill.
FlipYrWhig
@Stillwater: There are plenty of legitimate gripes from progressives, and, hell, from anybody, about the form, content, and strategy behind how all this shook out. I just lose patience with all the falsehoods and fantasies and willful misunderstandings that get used to bolster those legitimate gripes.
Corner Stone
@MikeMc: One-inch death punch, bitch.
MikeMc
@Tehanu: She is, and always has been, a moderate. Did you think she was going to vote for possible default?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Corner Stone: “You could always add a few dashes of that, especially if President Stuck or President Odious Manatee shows up.”
If you’re going to give me a promotion, Mr. McCain Voter, then I prefer El Presidente.
You may commence kissing my ass any time you wish. Get a ladder if the pedestal you’ve put me on is too high.
JFitz
It’s “Tucsonans” not “Tucsonians”. Jeez
Corner Stone
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Actually I was half hoping you and President Stuck would do a little death match ala Star Trek. To settle once and for all who was the biggest authoritarian asskisser here.
My money’s on President Stuck, btw. But I’m sure you’ll whip your manly braided ponytail in a most deadly fashion.
Buena suerte Senor.
Cain
@Christian:
So then you wish we go into default? Convince me how that is a win for our side and for all those unfortunates hurt by this bill.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck: Wow, that was quite a screed against Democrats from a Republican-turned-Independent. You should put it a book, maybe call it “My Struggle.”
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Corner Stone:
Are you talking to me? Really? What did I ever do to have the attention of a McCain voter bestowed on me? I am flattered that you think that I’m an attractive target but to be honest, you’re just not my type.
Now go wank away at someone who gives a shit about what you have to say.
Cain
@Sad Iron:
Yes, it’s an example of both sides do it.
:)
Keith G
@Steve: That’s our Stuck.
Keith G
@MikeMc:
Let me address this argument as it is being used frequently.
I don’t give a shit what Corner Stone (or any other target of this silly question) would do. When I vote for a president, I vote for a professional specialist who has promised results, who is dedicated to getting better at the job each day he/she is working it. I am voting for someone chose to run for the job by promising success.
I do not vote for missed opportunities, for excuses, or for what Corner Stone might do. I am paying for the efforts of a pro not a peasant.
Keith G
I have a very benign comment in moderation. Will some official release it, please.
grandpajohn
@Heliopause: Well we could have defaulted, not issued SS checks and other payments to individuals and then we could have seen some real Austerity, when people couldn’t pay their bills or buy food , but at least we could have stood on principle couldn’t we. Any one know how long you can survive on principle?
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Maybe you should just surrender to your inner Horowitz, and be the Trotskyite self that is just busting to come out of the phony democrat closet you broadcast from.
General Stuck
@Keith G:
I pray every day that Texas will secede and our long national nightmare will be over. You and your bud Corner Stone, can become the underground resistance, or something like that.
Corner Stone
@Odie Hugh Manatee: You’re the asskisser here, right? Then yeah, talking to you son.
Heliopause
@TooManyJens:
Read my full comment, then get back to us.
@hildebrand:
That comment would qualify as the 3,839,457,393rd most insensitive on any given day at Balloon Juice. Stop obsessing about trivial bullshit when legislation that will profoundly hurt hundreds of millions of people just got signed into law.
Heliopause
@grandpajohn:
WHOOOOOOSH…….
General Stuck
@Keith G:
Well, that’s a new one. Calling Obama a peasant? There is all sorts of fodder for the imagination to what that actually means in the Texas size empty spot between your ears. Peasant. jeebus, what will they come up with next.
grandpajohn
@AlphaLiberal:
Maybe she decided it was time to start earning her pay again.
Contrary to the opinion of many here, you don’t have to be a progressive/liberal to have principles and integrity. And It would also helps to have some compassion and an understanding of the real world of others beside themselves. knowing this and perhas a realization of their self centeredness and ideology over reality would help the liberals to understand why many here dislike them and it would also help to cut out the “hate” bullshit, nobody here hates you. This is just another manifestation of your self centered defense of your ideology.
Some how I don’t find it gratifying that many of the prog/liberals are like the extreme right/teabaggers in that they willing to sacrifice others ,like those of us on SS ,for their principles. So you would be willing for Me and millions of others to not get a SS check this month so that You could make a principled stand on your ideology.Tell me, how long can an individual survive on a diet of principles 3 times a day.
General Stuck
@grandpajohn:
Nice rant sir, and I agree completely.
Too Many Jimpersons (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
So for all these experts out there who are telling us just why this deal sucks (and it does), and are full of wise words about what Obama should have done and why he sucks because he didn’t or what Reid should have done and why he sucks because he didn’t or what somebody or other should have done and why they suck because they didn’t, there’s one thing I’d like to know: How many of you sat out the election last year? I’d really like to know. There was a lot of bad feeling last year because Obama didn’t fight hard enough for a better health cre bill or Obama didn’t fight hard enough to shut down Guantánamo or he didn’t fight hard enough for gay marriage, and I heard people whining that he wasn’t any better than Bush, and other such bullshit.
Well, how many of you voted? How many of you gave money to candidates? How many worked for candidates? If you didn’t like the candidates you had, how many of you ran for office yourself? I know this sounds snide, but I don’t mean it that way. Republicans have gotten a lot of things this year becasue they won the House last year, and they won it by running the most fucked up loser assholes they could find, and these fucked up loser assholes were willing to set fire to the country to get their way.
Now the Republicans didn’t get these assholes into office just because the teabaggers showed up at constituents’ meetings the year before and got stoked; the assholes won because hardcore fundamentalist, nihilist, fascistic, racist nuts worked for 40 years to take over every fucking state, county, town, borough, township, precinct and ward party office. The nuts now run the party in places like fucking Maine and Wisconsin, not just in Texas and Idaho and Alabama, where you’d think the nuts would do well; they run the Republican Party in Minnesota.
And the nuts never let it get to them when Ford didn’t do what they wanted; they never got down on Reagan when he didn’t give them what they wanted; Neither Bush was as big a win for these people as they had hoped; neither was taking over Congress in 1994. But rather than whining and pissing and threatening to sit out the next time, or vote for the conservative equivilent of Ralph Nader, they just got back to work.
I wonder if some liberals haven’t just gotten lazy. It seems like too many of us believed that we could elect a Democratic president and bring in a Congress with big margins in both houses, and then that’s all there was to it. We could forget about politics and Obama and Congress would give us everything we ever wanted.
Well, that isn’t how it works. Too many of the Democrats in Congress are moderates or even conservatives. Now you can whine about that all you want. I think Ben nelson and Mary Landreiu and Jo Manchin are tools, too. But if you want to not have to worry about them, then the answer is to get more Democrats in Congress, not fewer. It’s to work harder, not sulk and go home because it didn’t go your way this time. Go out and get on your local party board. Sure, I know it’s shit work, but still, if you can’t be bothered to do the work, then shut the hell up when you don’t get your way.
I’m not thrilled with everything Obama has done and said in these 2 years and a half; but I’ll take it. And I’ll work my ass off to get him another 4 years, since anything else might mean the end of our country. I know this deal sucks. I know that. But, shit, sometimes a sucky deal is the best one to be had. I want a better deal next time, but I know we won’t get one by sitting on our asses a year and a half from now or by writing in Kucinich or Nader or somebody else on the ballot out of spite. If we want a better deal, we have to work for it, local office by local office, the same way the radical conservatives did.
Keith G
@General Stuck: Oh Stuck.
Reread.
In counter to the question “What would you do?” I do not care what the non elected hoi polloi would do (any more than I care what a Monday morning QB would do the day after the Super Bowl), Presidents are chosen to confront super difficult problems and to access knowledge and skills beyond the reach of the regular population.
So no, I was not calling the President a peasant. You can put your indignation away.
And there are millions of great folks in Texas who would rightfully take exception to your specious comments.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@grandpajohn:
That has nothing to do with this argument, but it is far truer than you can imagine. BTW, she unnecessarily cast an irresponsible and corrupt vote.
You have no principles or integrity, because you are willing to sacrifice everyone who comes after you, everyone, for your own selfishness. The Republicans will be the ones “killing the hostages” not the progressives. The principle is, Don’t Capitulate to Terrorists. If they kill the hostages, then you kill the terrorists, every one of them. Unhappily, in the long run it is by far the better outcome. More good people will live and do good, and more bad people will be unable to practice their evil. If you have a better principle, I’m listening.
.
.
Mnemosyne
@Too Many Jimpersons (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
That’s the part that everyone likes to forget — radical right-wingers are in charge of the Republican Party because they worked for decades to take it over from the inside. Hell, I only got halfway through Nixonland and I got that much from it.
When progressives are willing to do as much work as the right-wingers did to get where they are, then we’ll have a progressive revolution and not a minute sooner. And, no, less than a decade of blogging is not going to have the same electoral result as stacking every school board and town council with conservative nutcases.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
So, to turn it back around on you, who are you to decide that this was the worst possible solution if the guy who specializes in politics thinks it was the best he could do?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Corner Stone: “You’re the asskisser here, right? Then yeah, talking to you son.”
I know that you call everyone “son” because they might be related to you but you should remember that everyone isn’t from Texas.
Corner Stone
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Nah, I get that. But since you’re the asskisser here I feel pretty good about the rest of it.
Corner Stone
Do you go with the mwah, or the smooch, or maybe the sluuuurp?
Oh, it doesn’t matter. Authoritarian asskissers gotta kiss ass, no matter how they get it done.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Corner Stone:
Your nursing home staff are off getting drunk again eh? Shouldn’t you be fucking that near-corpse in the bed next to you? As usual, your priorities are all screwed up but then again, you did vote for Palin.
I’ll leave you to flail away at teh internets since I have other things to do, like go take a dump. I’ll be sure to think of you when I’m wiping though.
I wouldn’t want you to feel left out.
ETA: Make sure you get the last word in so you’ll feel like you ‘won’…lol
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: Fair enough.
I do not recall saying it was the worst. I do agree with Obama that it should have been better.
I will try to replicate what I typed in an earlier thread.
I think Obama did okay this last Sat/Sun. It was what it was and he made the most of it.
Broaden the time frame out to the last few weeks and I would give him a lower grade. The longer the time frame the lower the grade.
Why?
He does not deserve a bunch of credit for putting out a fire that he helped build or helped grow by earlier inaction. Obama has a predictable M.O. and it seems that others are using it to cause mischief.
Corner Stone
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Speaking of taking a dump, if this is the best shit you can bring then maybe you should keep your fucking piehole shut about fucking with other posters here.
Because you’ve displayed an amazing amount of really weak, lame and frankly, laughably stupid retorts.
So now I will leave you to wipe your ass and try and pipe back up with some kind of lame rejoinder.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Corner Stone:
I’d ask what crawled up your ass and died but I really don’t want to know about your strange sexual habits. For some reason you think you are ‘bringing it’ to me for whatever reason that turns your crank. I’m sure that every single brilliant post of yours is accompanied by the furious fapfapfap! sounds of self-abuse but you should remember that you started this pissing contest tonight.
I don’t know why I am wasting my time talking to a lame-assed McCain/Palin-voting Texas goatfucker like you. Looking for a goat to mount? Look elsewhere, mine’s not interested. Now I’ll leave you to your fast and furious fapping with another lame-assed response that you think I actually care about.
Fucking wingnut.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Too Many Jimpersons (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
Considering how many of said liberals were willing to throw the grandpajohns of the world into the pet food aisle in some grandiose pursuit of crushing the Teabaggers, I’m going to vote a hearty ‘you fucking betcha’.
hildebrand
@Heliopause:
Compassion is not trivial. That you cannot see that is…instructive. Good luck to you.
Corner Stone
@Odie Hugh Manatee: God, don’t you have another gear? The masturbation knock?
Goat jokes?
Oh well.
TK-421
Yet you can’t seem to do it nowadays. Your credibility is eroding rapidly, ABL, at least with me. It seems like your blogging is far too formulaic- mock Progressives for being overly critical of President Obama, go silent when President Obama disappoints even the moderates, then point at something or someone to distract from the disappointment. “CTFO you stupid firebaggers, Obama’s got this!…oh, he doesn’t have this?…hey look, over there, someone is racist/disgusting!…” It’s tiresome and dishonest, and this blog is better than your recent behavior.
You insisted that the White House’s position on Social Security was “unchanged.” Your words, not mine. And oh how you enjoyed mocking people who freaked out about it! Was it worth it? Was it good for you?
You assured us all (as you often do, just like in this post) that if you were proven wrong you would gladly write a mea culpa post. But instead of writing a mea culpa, you simply defended the change in position in comments, and then pretended that you weren’t wrong.
Refusal to admit error is a mortal sin, no matter how small the error. And chiding others for their bad behavior while condoning your own dishonesty/foolish pride seems pretty hypocritical to me. Again, this blog is better than you.