Not to be all gloomy, but Obama better pray to the FSM that the Republicans nominate a grade A wingnut like Bachmann, or I simply do not see how he gets re-elected. This has nothing to do with the worthless gasbags who have nominated themselves our progressive betters, but everything to do with the economy. Now that we have bought into the bullshit austerity solves everything/government is always the problem mantra, there ain’t no going back:
Sixty five percent approve of deal’s spending cuts. But it gets worse. Of the 30 percent who disapprove, 13 percent think the cuts haven’t gotten far enough, and only 15 percent think the cuts go too far. One sixth of Americans agree with the liberal argument about the deal.
Yes, the poll also found that 60 percent disapprove of the deal’s lack of high-end tax hikes. Yes, approval of the GOP is lower than that of Obama or Dems. Such findings have led many, myself included, to conclude that Dems were winning the P.R war in this fight in particular.
But the public disapproves of everyone’s handling of this mess. And while the public wanted the rich to kick in more, the poll finds that a plurality (49-42) believes the deal will help the economy, meaning a plurality believes the Republican argument that spending cuts are good economic policy.
You might argue that the public doesn’t really care about deficits; only jobs will dictate the 2012 election. You might also hold out hope that ultimately the public will prefer a Dem balance between spending cuts and public investment, rather than the extreme GOP vision. But it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the public is reflexively disposed to agree with the GOP’s economic worldview, and is all-too-willing to blame government for our economic doldrums.
So we’re all in on austerity and drowning the government in the bathtub, and the public has gotten the message, even if it is bullshit. I’m told by my twitter machine that he White House immediately “pivoted” to jobs now that the debt limit crisis is solved. Pivoted to what, exactly? There will be no additional stimulus. There will be no unemployment benefits extensions. None of that crap is going to get through the wingnut house, and the wurlitzer will start to scream about the invisible bond vigilantes and the deficit eating your babies if anyone even thinks about government spending (unless, of course, we need to bomb the fuck out of someone in the middle east or if the Koch brothers need another tax cut). So what can they do to spur economic growth, other than bad trade deals which will alienate key Democratic constituencies?
Basically, in 2008 Obama ran on Hope and Change. In 2012, it looks like it will be PLEASE LORD, I Hope Things Change.
Just Some Fuckhead
So substantial majorities approve of what the president’s been selling the last month?
Corner Stone
FIREBA…
Oh, what’s the point? You’re a monumental douche in any event.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Welcome to Despair, Population Us.
Tom Q
Obama re-elected easily, no matter who the opponent is. I’m taking the bet right now.
Corner Stone
Really you fucking asshole? Just catching your snap you fucking douchebag?
Fuck.
harlana
This has mystified me, how do we go from preaching about cuts to job creation? Cutting government spending will only add more to unemployment rolls. Doesn’t job creation involve a certain amount of investment or something? With what?
Corner Stone
@Tom Q: What’s easily? Let’s work this out.
Corner Stone
@harlana: Yeah, President Obama will “urge” Congress to pivot to jobs.
When they return from a 5 week recess.
He may also rent a bouncy castle too, but Plouffe was hush hush on details.
Jewish Steel
Does the nominating process not dictate that even if we don’t get a wingnut, Romney or whoever will have to commit to wingnutery in order to secure the nomination? Or have a wingnutting mate?
Further, 14 months isn’t quite an eternity in politics but it’s at least an eon.
different church-lady
@Corner Stone: Do you have some kind of implant that turns your random thoughts into BJ comments without conscious intervention?
Lev
Most notable factoid: independents HATE the debt deal. Repubs are ambivalent. Considering the whole political logic of a big bipartisan debt deal was to make independents happy, this is a pretty egregious miscalculation.
Corner Stone
@different church-lady: You have some steely eyed centrist type response to poke my way?
lamh34
Maybe it’s not too late for Obama to take Michelle and the girls back to Chicago or Hawaii, and just say “Dueces” and let the next one come along. I mean since obviously Obama’s election prospects are so dim. The Dems can obviously find someone with less baggage to run.
cleek
@harlana:
it’s really simple, actually. Obama did it in basically one sentence (paraphrasing) “Getting a handle on our debt situation is a start, but is only a part of what we need to do to get this economy to start creating jobs.”
sounded good to me.
of course i’m not a member of the BETTER FUCKING GO HANG MYSELF RIGHT NOW club. so, what do i know.
DonkeyKong
Well, Obama could fish Osama’s corpse out of the Indian Sea and chop his head off with a crucifix at his 2012 renomination convention speech.
There’s that……….
sb
eric
As I wrote in a previous thread, Obama’s big moment will come when he (through Reid) appoints the 3 Dem Senators to the Commission. FYI, the three sitting dem senators on Simpson-Bowles: Baucus, Conrad, and Durbin.
John Weiss
Corner Stone, troll or did an earwig crawl up your ass?
Hunter Gathers
His path to re-election is quite simple, really.
FUCK THE WHITE VOTE.
coloradoblue
While dissapointed, I’m not surprised that so many Americans think this shit sandwich will somehow improve the economy. For 30+ years they’ve been told that there is such a thing as a free lunch. That we can cut taxes, massively increase spending AND balance the budget.
And no one of any importance on the left has been telling Americans the truth.
WASF.
Loviatar
Shorter John Cole: Even though those Dirty Fucking Hippies have been predicting this since the election and have been proven correct, we’re still not going to listen to them.
.
Clap harder, reality is calling and you have to drown it out.
BalJu Commenter #2401
Is
(# rational people choosing !Obama as the Lesser Evil * % voting)
+
(# crazy people who hate Obama * 1.0)
>
(# ration people liking Obama * % voting)
+
(# crazy people who love Obama * 1.0)
+
(# rational people choosing Obama as the Lesser Evil * % voting)
?
And the answer is … 42!
John Cole
@cleek: So tell me, how does the government create jobs while spending no money? Answer that, and I’ll vote you for President.
PsiFighter37
@Tom Q: Put an over/under on a percentage point spread on the popular vote and the electoral vote and I’ll let you know if I’m interested.
Sasha
The Repubs wanted to make sure the Obama was a one-termer and they’ve got the economy by the balls to help ensure it. Let’s see if they overreach in the next year.
Ruckus
@different church-lady:
Thank, giggle, guffaw, You, giggle, guffaw
danimal
I still don’t see the Republican, outside of Romney (who will not get nominated), who can beat Obama. Perry? He’s the most likely nominee, but how is he going to play outside the conservative base? Bachmann? A more formidible candidate than assumed, but she’s still nuts. Palin? Is she a grifter or quitter? *(YES) Gingrich? Cain? Santorum? Hahahahaha. Huntsman? Playing for 2016. Pawlenty? Zzzzz. What were we talking about? I must have dozed off.
Obama is blessed with continually drawing weak challengers. Partially by luck, partially by design. He will win, not because he has inspired the masses for Hope and Change, but because people know the challenges he inheirited, and they know he’s a basically decent guy trying to do the right thing. The crazy will have been on full display for two years, and people will be sick of it.
different church-lady
@Corner Stone: No, it’s just that two out of three times I’m just trying to figure out the barest hint of what the ‘eff you’re talking about in any given comment. I mean, I can’t even decide whether to disagree with you until that step is taken.
FDRLincoln
John C: Although I’m not as down on Obama as some progressives, and I think he has a fair chance to win re-election (I’d say a little over 50% chance), I do think you should create a new tag to amuse the most pessimistic among us.
Instead of “Black Jimmy Carter,” how about “Black James Buchanan”?
Andy
The worst thing that could happen for the GOP is the economy getting better. That’s all one needs to know to understand their strategy. This whole thing was to ensure further suffering. Watch. As soon as they get the White House, they’ll pass huge stimulus packages and no one, not Fox, not Limbaugh, not Bachman, not anyone in the Tea Party, will bat an eyelash over it. They’ll say it’s different now.
RareSanity
Cole,
You are forgetting that there actually has to be a campaign in 2012.
With that year long, media pressure cooker, there is no way that any of the Republican candidates will be able to make themselves palatable to enough voters to win.
It’s really hard to try to extrapolate poll results that are based on large groups (Republicans, Democrats), out to the pinnacle of individual politics, running for President of the United States. It won’t be “Republicans” running for President, it will be Mitt Romney or Michelle Bachman, running for President.
You give me that matchup, I’ll put my money on The Big O every time.
Scott
@lamh34:
Do you have a link to your notable factoid? Seems a bit too early to arrive at that conclusion.
El Cid
You hate America.
arguingwithsignposts
Honestly, none of those polls mean jack shit, because the Republicans will say “The American People agree with us” no matter what. You can poll until the end of time, but until some people get their asses handed to them in the only polls that matter, all of the polling is sound and fury, signifying nothing.
JGabriel
John, two points:
First, the wording of the question:
This is showing approval of the first $1 Trillion in cuts, not anything else. In my opinion, it’s worded in a way to maximize aggreement from independents and low-info voters.
Second, this is from a CNN/ORC (Opinion Research) poll. I don’t remember anyone characterizing ORC as one of the best pollsters out there. They’re mediocre, at best, if I recall correctly.
I’m not sure how much credence to give these results, but I suspect you may be overreacting.
.
lamh34
@Scott: I have no factoid Isn’t that what John C saying is true based on the data he he just posted, that at this point Obama’s reelectton prospect seem dim.
Judas Escargot
The rubes swallowed the “gubbmint should be run like a bidness!!1!” meme decades ago.
Fine. But why do they all take that to mean that government needs to be run like such a shitty, shitty, doomed-to-fail business?
Money’s cheap: This is when you borrow. Labor’s cheap: This is when you hire. This is when you upgrade your equipment, or buy that new truck, etc etc etc so you’ll be in good shape on the upswing.
Morons.
Clever moniker
I can’t promote this article enough–even though he agrees that Obama’s deeply wrong to trumpet his cuts, this poll is essentially meaningless when it comes to the future of liberal policy because support for spending cuts in general≠support for cutting spending on specific programs.
Although, yeah, Obama basically screwed himself with this one. Hia only strategy is to hammer the Republicans as a counterproductive, do-nothing congress, but he can only hammer them as do-nothing if he’s constantly wanting to do something, which would contradict his
dealransom payment. So he’s screwed. Plus congressional and state Democratic candidates will probably be running on jobs/economic populism/rich people should pay for our healthcare, to some extent Obama and his party will be running against one another.The only poliitical silver lining is that the GOP completely believes its own macroeconomic nonsense, so you can probably expect some kind of wave in 2014.
benintn
Loans. Creation of a government bank to do loans like the one the Dept. of Energy did (to the tune of over a billion dollars) to help Nissan North America develop its electric vehicles. Increase profitability, private-public partnership, and focused on achieving America’s strategic priorities including infrastructure development, urban renewal, green jobs, and energy independence.
Any questions?
John O
There will be no jobs.
Obama still stands a 50-50 chance of re-election. But if you think peak wingnut was a lie, wait until they control all three branches of government again.
The only reason to pray for Romney is that he’s a part-time liberal, and if he’s ANY kind of man at all we’ll see where he really stands on things if he gets elected.
kdaug
Ask those folks at the FAA how “austerity measures” are working. (Coming soon to the CDC, FDA, GSC, et. al.)
If this ain’t deliberate wealth-transfer, I don’t know what is.
harlana
cleek : doesn’t address the question, i’m afraid
DarrenG
You and Greg are over-reacting to that poll.
Cutting government spending *always* polls well in the abstract. Things change very quickly once you start pegging spending cuts to specific programs, though. People hate “big government” but love their Medicare, Social Security, a strong national defense, highways, clean air & water, etc.
cleek
@John Cole:
beats the fuck out of me. but is there any reason that question has any more relevance today than it had in January, when the teabaggers moved into the Capitol ? as far as i can tell, nobody ever assumed the GOP house was going to let Obama spend any money.
he’ll do what he can.
and the fair-weather Dems will GBCW themselves for the next 15 months.
joy.
Lolis
The problem is that even though Republicans fight openly and vigorously for very unpopular ideas people still keep electing them. Democrats have noticed this and have decided, hey I need to also support policy that the public claims to hate since they keep voting in people who are fighting against what they say they want.
Even my Democratic House member, Lloyd Doggett, voted for this compromise when he didn’t have to. I am not sure why. But he is smart and usually perfect on the issues. Notice in Gillibrand’s statement she accepts the premise that we need deficit reduction just objects to there being no revenues. So she is accepting RW framing but nobody gives her shit for it. We live in a complicated world. It is hard to figure it all out or understand the motivations of any of our legislators.
Cat Lady
Does that include whining about Obama on blogs? Cuz if so, we’re golden.
Most people can’t remember what happened last week. The election is a long way away, can we give the chicken little shit a rest? kthx.
Maude
@arguingwithsignposts:
In the last thread I didn’t see you refudiate Stalin.
Brian R.
@Lev:
Yeah, but they think Obama handled the negotiations best, with a balanced approach (that they supported Obama on) and a willingness to compromise, while they think congressional Republicans handled them in bad faith.
Independents aren’t crazy about the deal, but in the same way Democrats aren’t crazy about it. They’re not siding with the GOP on this by a long shot.
different church-lady
@lamh34: at this point that may be true, but it’s only 7 o’clock.
Steve
Let’s assume, hypothetically, that Obama loses to Romney or whoever. Now, maybe the world ends at that point but bear with me. What do you think the reaction of the Democratic Party would be at that point?
The Democrats could take the Krugman perspective, and decide that compromise and post-partisanship just don’t work when you’re dealing with a radical opposition. The next Democratic nominee could decide that it’s important to draw a strong contrast with the GOP and keep fighting them day in and day out, FDR-style. They could decide that the only way to win re-election is to pursue bold economic policies that result in job growth and a stronger economy.
Or the Democrats could decide that Obama lost because he got portrayed as a radical left-winger, and they could redouble their efforts to appear even more moderate and conciliatory. They could engage in even more acts of what the progressive left would consider “surrender.”
History tells me the answer will be Option B. No one ever seems to learn the right lessons from failure, so the way I figure it, you might as well succeed.
cleek
@harlana:
the question was about preaching, right? well, he’s preaching about jobs.
wrb
There could be, as I’ve written before- apologies for being tedious. It is vitally important, I think.
If there isn’t, it will be because Democrats are tied to a cartoonish oversimplification of Keynesianism: “spending good, taxes good.” It should be “short-term deficits good in a weak economy (whether from spending or cutting taxes), deficits bad in strong economy.”
We can’t get stimulus spending through the house, at least without offering the controlling party something they want.
So either offer it, or propose extremely aggressive low and middle-income tax cuts and let them run against tax cuts for the middle class.
Yes, spending can be more efficient, but the situation is too critical to waste time seeking perfect efficiency. The middle class will be wiped out and our country left in the gutter of history by the time we pass anything that in theory, if time was immaterial, was ideal.
dollared
@RareSanity: Remember the alcoholic draft dodger with the permanent sneer and offset eyes who liked to mock women he executed?
The MSM made him into The Inevitable Compassionate Conservative and The Perfect Antidote to the Contentious Clinton years.
I see the civil rights theme of the First Mormon President, the Pro Jobs Republican.
arguingwithsignposts
@Maude: Consider him refudiated. Fucking broccoli Stalin!
beltane
I’ve been reading about the effects of austerity in Greece, and I honestly don’t think the average white, formerly middle-class suburban American could survive it. When the Hollywood inspired myth of the rugged individual grinds up against a reality of destitution without hope of improvement, things will get very interesting.
Just Some Fuckhead
If it’s any consolation, many more Presidential nominees are going to have to learn how to run a winning campaign in a lousy economy. It’s the new normal.
Lolis
It is funny that the new mantra against Obama is FDR, when FDR pushed to balance the budget and pushed the country back. I think most historians argue that the thing that got us out of the Great Depression was the war. Too bad we already have two and a half wars. That seems to be the only spending both sides agree on.
bemused
When I start paying too much attention to polls, I know I’m starting to freak out. Treat them as somewhat interesting but do not take them seriously. It’s far too early for this bs anyway. Have a nice cocktail.
The R candidates are just clowns. If they look this bad now, how much of a trainwreck is the whole slate going to be when we’re actually in campaigning hell?
harlana
@benintn: yes, how do you get the teaturds to swallow that one?
beltane
@Lolis: There is always the remote possibility of war breaking out in Europe. Gotta have hope, right?
superfly
@Loviatar:
Yep.
Citizen_X
Well, Cole, what can one say to this except go cry emo kid.
DarrenG
Also, too: The manic progressives are going to lose their shit again in October when the GOP holds the next appropriations bill hostage and gets yet more concessions out of the Dems.
After that, though, all the big fights in 2012 during election season when people are paying attention are going to be played on Obama’s home turf, particularly the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.
Both sides overstate the importance of government policy in creating jobs and economic growth (they’re not irrelevant, but they’re not the sine qua non either). I also think we’ll get at least an unemployment insurance extension through Congress heading into next year; the GOP knows that’s a losing battle for them heading into primary season.
Lev
@Lolis: Yeah, but…FDR had already dropped unemployment by half and growth was near 10% of GDP per year. I can understand saying, hey, maybe let’s hit the brakes a little bit and see what happens when that’s the case. I can’t understand doing it when the first half of the year averaged out at 1% growth with stubbornly high unemployment.
arguingwithsignposts
@Just Some Fuckhead:
That is actually some profound shit, JSF. Kudos.
Jewish Steel
@danimal: I wish I shared your optimism about Romney. Like DougJ I too, rationally or irrationally, fear sunchapped daddy figures.
If Republicans can’t suck it up and nominate their least loathed non-loony, maybe it is time to start hanging crepe on their door.
Maude
@beltane:
55
Hillary Clinton told the Greeks that they should suffer and then it will get better. I have no words.
cleek
@Lolis:
in terms of the effect on the economy, these wars ain’t shit, compared to WWII. we’re spending about 6% of GDP on “defense” right now. WWII hit 42% in 1945. now that’s some stimulus!
it’d be like dropping $5.6T into the economy, in one year.
slag
@John Cole: Tax cuts! (Those don’t count as spending, right?)
John O
Hell, the way I see it now Romney’s support is about as deep as a tennis court puddle, and the GOP rank and file are just itching to nominate someone else. Perry? Bachmann? Puhleease. Obama will scorch the earth with either of those two.
But all guesses at this point are subject to dramatic change, JC.
bemused
@beltane:
Do you have links? There are a few people I know that think austerity in the US would be no big thing. Idiots.
RareSanity
@dollared:
There won’t be any “folksy”, “one you want to have a beer with”, candidates for this election.
Don’t get me wrong, GWB was a complete and absolute failure as a President. However, he did have a certain like-ability, if you were buying what he was selling. It was only amplified by the contrast in personality between him and Al Gore.
And even after all of that, it still took the Supreme Court to actually award him the office.
There isn’t a Republican in the current field that could come close to pulling off what Bush did.
Martin
@John Cole:
Regulation. All aircraft need to be inspected 2x as often. All coal plants needs to be shut down by 2030. All autos must get at least 35 MPG by 2020.
You create jobs by forcing companies to spend money to remain in the marketplace and gain public benefits as a result. CA is bringing green energy in like crazy and isn’t spending a dime. It’s all through regulation.
Jewish Steel
@Just Some Fuckhead: Yeah, what arguing said. Good point.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts:
Is that as creepy as Fusilli Jerry?
dollared
@benintn: Yeah. What on earth makes you think more than two loans will close in 14 months? What makes you think it will deliver more than 250 R&D jobs per loan? The total value of this program will be 5000 jobs per $100M loaned.
Lev
@John O: You seem to be under the impression that it’s all about candidates. It’s not. Kevin Drum says it’s about 1/3 the candidates and 2/3 the economy, which seems about right to me.
But even that is hard to separate. If someone’s stressed for their job, maybe something that they otherwise wouldn’t care about hits them harder than it otherwise would. Or maybe a politician they wouldn’t otherwise like somehow starts to make sense to them because they’re a “change” of sorts. So, really, the economy and the candidates are intertwined. I strongly believe that this is why the right has been successful, by the way.
Just Some Fuckhead
@slag:
Tax cuts are off the table.
What we need now is deregulation.
If that doesn’t work, guns for everyone, including children. That should create some.. er, job vacancies that need to be filled.
Stooleo
Cole, don’t be so down man. Buck up. Did the Americans give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell No!
Martin
@FDRLincoln:
I’m going to put him at 90% to re-elect, simply on the assumption that he’ll turn out the same voters in 2008. He’ll rally the youth vote, they’ll come out where they didn’t vote in 2010, and that’ll be that. Obama has no clear opposition – nobody to contrast with right now. Guaranteed whoever the GOP nominates will scare the fuck out of anyone under 40.
Heliopause
Wrong, it’s a learned response. When the leftmost position that most media outlets present is Obama’s so-called “balanced approach” then you’re going to get poll results like this. The public wasn’t “reflexively disposed” to invading Iraq, they were talked into it. If the only place to find sane economics is a few bloggers or occasionally MSNBC (and keep in mind that MSNBC is usually right next to CNBC, which is full-on supply-side, on the channel lineup) then you’re going to poll answers like this.
beltane
@Maude: Greece suffered extreme hardship under German occupation, with people routinely keeling over in the streets from starvation, and yet was the only European country not to receive reparations from the Germans. When I think about that, and then look upon the white supremacist teabaggers, I start to wonder when China rallies the rest of the world against the Northern Europeans. I figure it’s only a matter of time.
dollared
@RareSanity: Are you kidding? Mormon Mitt? Huntsman? Pawlenty, if needed? I know Pawlenty personally, he is likeable.
The MSM and Republicans always find a way.
Keith G
@danimal:
Romney will most likely win the nomination, but even if it is Perry, 40% of US voters will vote for him without question in Nov. 2012. He just has to con an additional 10.1 %
Corner Stone
@Martin:
Honest question. You really think the youth vote will rally?
DarrenG
@Lev: I agree with that, but I think a key difference this time is the GOP won’t be offering an alternative economic vision that they can plausibly sell, especially since their major policy priority during election season will be extending the Bush tax cuts again.
The dynamics of the GOP primaries will make the eventual nominee swear numerous blood oaths to cargo cult Reaganomics, and that should be an anchor around their neck in the general.
slightly-peeved
Looks like Americans aren’t buying the Republican line on tax increases any more. Obama can campaign on increasing taxes on the rich now. I look forward to seeing multiple-choice Mitt or the secessonist defending tax breaks on Learjets.
And remember how important funding is to US elections. Given what just happened, how is business going to feel about a tea party endorsed candidate? I think a lot of businesses will be giving to both sides and hedging their bets. Obama could well come in with a massive financial advantage against either a guy arguing against his own record or a traitor against his own country. I’d wait a little before freaking out.
John O
@Lev:
I think that’s an oversimplification and perhaps downright wrong when it comes to the office of President. You could just as well make the argument that people would rather have the devil they know in tough times if they think she/he’s got a good head on his/her shoulders.
Personality matters way more than a third in Presidential elections, IMHO.
El Cid
@Martin:
On this one, they’re way ahead.
To what degree exemptions and delays and “triggers” will trim this, I don’t know.
slag
@Martin:
Close: http://autos.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Autos/20110729/obama-to-announce-compromise-to-double-fuel-economy-110729/?s_name=Autos
Corner Stone
President Obama is in for the re-election fight of his life.
Lots of Snoopy Dancing going on for our side but this is gonna be a real biznatch.
RareSanity
@dollared:
Methinks my troll-dar needs to be recalibrated…
SiubhanDuinne
@John Weiss:
Actually, I think an asswig crawled in his ear.
Jon
Welp, if Cole thinks he’s not getting re-elected then I’ll see you all at the victory party.
This post makes me feel much better.
Keith G
@Martin:
Yeah, that will happen.
Martin
@Keith G:
Everyone starts with 40% in a 2-way race. Even Mondale got more than 40%. What matters is where that 40% is distributed. I’m not sure that many of battleground states are going to be favorable to the GOP after electing teatard governors in 2010.
gwangung
Well, yeah. They learn “cut government, lower taxes at a very early age.
It’s just that it doesn’t have anything to do with what current politicians or media figures are saying.
aisce
@ john cole
by breaking their pledge to spend no money and acting like gigantic hypocrites. because that’s never happened before.
we’ve seen this dance already. if liberals would just give up their tax fantasies for a few more years, those stupid bush tax cuts can be traded for all kinds of stimulative goodies. just like december. now, granted, the economy still sucks ass even after the december deal, but that should illustrate the extent of the problem. not much use in trying to address inequality through the tax code if you can’t make any headway in creating middle class jobs. ending stagnation should be the only priority at the moment.
different church-lady
@Keith G:
Fffffffffffff-TFY!
Brian R.
@Martin:
Yup.
They’ve boxed themselves in with the angry, old, white Christian male vote, and that ain’t cutting it anymore.
And hell, the old part might not even be there if Democrats can highlight the Republican endangering of Medicare and Social Security. The Ryan budget is huge here, but I know a couple seniors who were eyeing the debt debate nervously in the last week realizing that their SSA check might not be coming to them this week.
So, angry white Christian men between 40 and 60? Good luck with that.
WyldPirate
@cleek:
Thanks for confirming that you are a dumbfuck.
Keynesian economics and reality shows that government stimulus in a depression/recession can work–and is the only thing that will work— when industry and consumers are tits .
But nooooo….Obama reads the polls, ignores fucking history and goes all in on what failed in 1936 when the Rethugs goaded–and FDR went in for–cutting government stimulus. It KILLED the rally in the economy at that time (which was double-digit growth).
Now we have evidence that the UK’s austerity measures are floundering.
“sounds good”..yeah right. You should pull your head out of your ass so you can think more clearly.
DarrenG
@Martin: Another excellent point that should count against the eventual GOP nominee in crucial states like Florida and Ohio. It’s going to be very hard for them to campaign on a platform of “elect me so I can do to the country what your dickhead state government has been doing to you since 2010.”
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: Hey! What’s this about?
grandpajohn
@DarrenG: finally some one who has been paying attention . Thing about polls , you need to see the cross tabs. How many of those polled are Almost certain to vote? whats the breakdown by party, age, ect.
point 2; Presidents are elected by electoral votes gained not by popular vote, remember Shrub?
Martin
@Keith G:
He wanted to know how to do it without spending. There it is. And the last one was basically announced last week. CA gov just signed a law requiring 1/3 of all power in the state be renewable by 2020. That’s a lot of infrastructure investment and jobs for no cost to the state.
There’s virtually no limit to what industries you can target. You want more coal mining jobs – improve safety regulation. And it’s all free, at least in direct costs to the federal budget.
GOVCHRIS1988
Ok, John, who’s gonna win in 2012. You wanna play James muthafuckin Carville, who is it John. See, this is what pisses my black ass off. people who don’t back shit up with facts, just say BULLSHIT when shit doesn’t go your way. Don’t half ass this John, name each state said Republican candidate A, whatever borderline stale tight ass idiot gets to win the election. What is the voter attitude now and what will it be later, John? Do you know the empirical data of what the media professes is important and what the VOTER actually deems important? Does the public blame the President for this economy or do they not? How does he or she pivot to the economy? Will he be able to straddle the tea party, independent voters, and regular Republicans and take bellweather Dems like yourself with them? What issues will he talk about. A campaign has to be more than just “Blame Obama, vote for me” bullshit. And don’t give me that midterm voter bullshit, everyone with a mind knows midterm elections are lower than election years. Don’t give me Reagan, since he did have new policy prescriptions as of 1980, their the same now with Republicans but were new then for people to give them a look.
Jesus Christ, I AM SO GODDAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE professing shit as unmistakable fact without dealing with facts and reality because they are pissed off about something! You are NO BETTER than any teabagger douche that professes President Obama is some America hating communist. Real Independents, not the ones that hate the Republican name right now, deal with reality and facts on the ground. If they see both sides not using FACTUAL evidence to support their claim, they tune out, stay home, and we get another Bushian President in the White House. Its one of the reasons why I broke into a hiatus here and stopped posting for awhile. I’m tired now.
Tell me, what was President Obama supposed to do with a teabag congress and borderline Republican senate? If he did do the “progressive” thing and barnstorm states and have town hall meetings and such, while not meeting with Republicans in the House, would his poll numbers go up and down? Would the Republicans have had the talking points down on how the President is overexposed and campaigning instead of leading and should be in Washington and all that shit? Answer those questions and go deep into it instead of this tripe you wrote above and maybe people will take you seriously. But GOD, spare us the “Oh woe is me” theatrical measures and have an actual debate on this. End of Rant, I’m done with it.
Tonal Crow
Oh for the love of Mary and all the icons, most of the American public does not understand policy. It doesn’t know who Keynes is, it doesn’t understand or care about “multiplier effects”, and it has not the least idea where on the “Laffer Curve” the economy resides.
Most of the American public makes decisions with its gut.
And in this case, its gut says:
It’s that simple. And until we craft our rhetoric to address those gut-level desires, we will lose to the Republicans, who learned this lesson decades ago.
Human psychology, how does it work?
Corner Stone
@Brian R.: Anybody bothered polling the under 40 crowd lately?
Clever moniker
@Martin 96:
If early polling is believed they’re favorable to him now.
Lev
@Martin: I really wish I could believe that. But the polls seem to indicate that the youth vote is falling away from Obama. Maybe he gets it back. He’s done it before. But it likely won’t be on the economy, which is worst for youngest voters. Which is to say he has to run a campaign in an electorate that doesn’t much care for him anymore, and the only way to do that is to make your opposition as unappetizing as possible. Also known as: George W. Bush’s re-election campaign. Raise your hands if you think Obama can pull that off. I’m not exactly expecting to be blown over by that breeze.
@DarrenG: I honestly hope you’re right. But we both know that the GOP talked about nothing but jobs in 2010 with no plan to get them, and Obama wasn’t able to gain any purchase with an attack on that. Admittedly, 2012 will be a different environment.
@John O: Political science strongly suggests you’re wrong. Read Jon Bernstein on this. Al Gore actually won more votes than Dubya, lest we forget.
Amanda in the South Bay
I think the biggest hurdle Obama will face is the progressive whinefest.
FlipYrWhig
@John Cole:
I think that’s the wrong question. I think the Obama (and maybe Democratic) argument will be that now that we have made a deal to cut spending, i.e., to _save_ money, there is less reason for concern about “overspending” and “going broke” and “we can’t afford it.” I think it’s a bit like this: passing this bill brings up the national FICO score, so now we’re on more solid ground for that home improvement loan we’ve been needing.
Or, alternatively, the government could create jobs by shifting money being spent on things that don’t create jobs to things that do. The same total $$ gets spent, but it’s channeled into things that make a more immediate impact. Like switching from eating out to brown-bagging it and growing your own vegetables, then putting the savings into calling the plumber to stop that slow leak.
beltane
@bemused: Here you go: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/02/greece-family-ties-debt-crisis
Americans do not have that type of family support, especially those RealAmericans who love to preach about family values.
Keith G
@DarrenG:
I fear they will have their focus-group tested buzz words that will have an unfortunate (for us)impact.
FlipYrWhig
@WyldPirate: What percentage of your posts here make some kind of reference to the rectal region? Is it 95, or 99?
WaterGirl
@Martin:
To me, what you have suggested is very smart. It seems in the same vein with the whole “birth control has to be covered with no co-pay” announcement we just had. I suspect Obama will move forward with the stuff he can do that does not require legislation.
Tonal Crow
@Keith G: Time for us to get to work on our own buzzwords. Rhetoric is Fundamental. Say, wasn’t there a public-service program like that a few decades back?
Martin
Oh, and to make a broader point about the jobs question:
We’ve spent 30 years trying to kill off zombie supply-side economic theory, and while federal spending can create demand-side spending, generally it’s just used to prop up supply-side. Focus on demand-side solutions, and one such way is to simply change the market demand. Just change the rules of what consumers buy – either in the marketplace itself by requiring higher fuel mileage cars, or through utilities like what CA is doing.
If you’re looking at subsidies or tax breaks for hiring, you’re focusing on the supply side, and while some of those things do work (as I’ve advocated trading new hires for repatriating foreign profits) generally just keep pounding away on the demand side of the problem and ignore the supply side entirely. You can always offer some subsidies to go along with new regulation, and then you get both domestic spending and that shove on the demand side.
arguingwithsignposts
would everyone stop paying attention to the goddamn polling on these issues. Please!?!? It doesn’t mean a goddamned thing. The public wants higher taxes on the rich. We don’t get higher taxes on the rich. The public wants mediwhatever/social security left alone – we sorta get that. The public is now majority pro-gay marriage benefits, the public believes abortion should be legal.
The Republicans don’t give *one shit* about “the public opinion” on any of those things. They have *a mandate* that they invented out of whole cloth. Does anyone remember how the “elections have consequences” thing didn’t mean shit to them over the last two years? Obama’s “mandate” still meant countless filibusters and holds on cabinet appointments?
You can read polls until you’re blue in the face and have a job at the NYT like nate silver, but it don’t mean shit to the True Believers.
jazzgurl
Hi
Martin
@Lev:
Turnout is everything. It really, really is. Dems have enough registered voters to win control of both chambers and the WH. We just need to get people to actually vote. No minds need be changed. We just need people to get off their asses for one hour on one day.
DarrenG
@Lev:
Disagree. In fact, most GOPers 2010 campaigns weren’t directly about jobs at all — it was all “government takeover of health care system,” along with the inherently-contradictory “Dems voted to cut Medicare,” and “out-of-control government spending.”
I don’t see them being able to play those cards again in 2012.
I don’t think Obama’s reelection will be a cakewalk, but I also don’t think the GOP will have as easy a time as John’s post and other recent Chicken Little commentary suggests, either.
Tonal Crow
@Martin: And motivating people to turn out and vote is why rhetoric is so important. It gives people a reason to take an hour off from work that’s difficult for them to afford. Of course explicit GOTV helps a lot, too. But relying solely upon it is a bad idea.
jazzgurl
Sorry,it was a tester. My posts have not been going through.How depressig is John Cole et al today. Anyway, good luck with your Repug prez. I hope that works out for ya!
slag
@Corner Stone: I think Pew did recently and found whitey falling away consistently in the under 40s. But I’m too uninterested in this topic to care enough to find it. Too early; too many variables. Though I agree that it’s nearly impossible to see a way out of our economic morasse from here.
Tom Q
@Corner Stone: I wasn’t ignoring this; I was away for a while.
I actually have very vernal expectations for next year, but there’s no reason I should raise my own odds. So I’ll say a minimum 5% popular vote margin, which, given the way EVs are distributed, will put him comfortably into the 300s.
I really suggest people take a look at Lichhtman’s Keys to the Presidency system, which agrees with my take (he says it would take an historic reversal of fortune for Obama to not win next year). His theory is that presidential elections are not jump balls based on sales pitches or candidates’ personalities (though charisma or the lack thereof accounts for 2 of his 13 Keys), but are informed decisions based on performance over the preceding four years. And that performance is a broad set of parameters, not just “what’s the unemployment rate today?” (It’d probably surprise most people to know the unemployment rates on Election Day 1980 and 1984 were almost identical — yet the difference in incumbent performance was a whopping 17-18%) Obama, by the Lichtman system, is likely to win all but 2-3 of the Keys — it would take 6 falling to defeat him. I’m amazed people don’t see this. But, then, plenty of short-sighted folk thought Reagan was a goner in mid-’83.
I’ll also take a somewhat contrarian stance on the economy. Everyone seems to assume what we’ve got today will continue and even decline next year. I see us as having just passed through a particularly terrible period: oil prices skyrocketed (but have now come back down some), state governments slashed jobs, Japan went through triple-economic-hell, and this idiotic debt ceiling fight rattled the markets. Once we’ve got through all that, I’d figure there’s a decent chance of the moderate job growth that preceded this stretch making a return. And a few months of such growth in ’04 was enough to re-elect even the far more poorly placed Bush.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Martin:
Impossible, Obama is worse than RomBachmann
dollared
@Martin: Jesus. Again. they voted in 2010 like they voted in 2008. 2010 was old whites voting red in exceptional numbers. Except this time 30% of students in 9 swing states will not have voting rights due to ID laws.
There is no savior. Obama actually has to win some white votes by acting in the interests of working people.
John O
@Lev:
Are you arguing Gore didn’t win in a walk because of the economy? Bush wouldn’t have even been in the game had he not promised us a more humble foreign policy, and to bring honor back to government. It was ALL about personality, that election.
Martin
@WaterGirl:
Yeah, he can do some stuff. That’s why wingnut Congress is so eager to claw back regulatory control from the EPA, etc. It’s economic power for Obama should he choose to wield it, and he has to some degree. He’s pushed CAFE standards MUCH further than I thought, but hasn’t pushed extraction regulation nearly as hard. His agencies can do a lot more.
Tonal Crow
@Amanda in the South Bay: Please go have some pie.
aisce
@ flipyrwhig
no, see, you’re being ridiculous. this isn’t abstract. republicans in the house control spending bills, so you don’t get to rearrange spending in a vacuum. the appropriations route is hostile.
you have to create incentives for their caucus to do this for you. what would you be willing to trade? bush tax cuts? corporate repatriation holiday? medicare? medicaid? it’ll come at a price.
unless you’ve decided to become a member of the church of the bully pulpit.
me, personally? i think the white house will hold onto their chips and use them as campaign issues. campaign mode started this afternoon. the super congress this winter is gonna be one wicked charlie foxtrot.
slightly-peeved
People were describing the ‘lowest spending since Eisenhower’ comment as a boast. I would have thought it makes a good pivot into an argument for more spending and taxes. It’s a simple response to Republican arguments that spending must be cut – and you know those arguments will come.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tonal Crow:
I can’t believe we don’t have saturday voting.
grandpajohn
@Keith G: Presidents are elected by electoral votes gained not by popular vote, remember Shrub?
Just Some Fuckhead
@arguingwithsignposts:
If we want real change, voting should happen on Sunday between 9 and noon.
WyldPirate
@FlipYrWhig:
Oh, I don’t know, flip. Why don’t you start keeping track of it and charting it if you are so interested.
I could ask you the same thing about the nearly 100%
Tonal Crow
@Just Some Fuckhead:
You win the thread.
arguingwithsignposts
@Just Some Fuckhead: I would get behind that just to hear the talibangelical freakout. OTOH, picture church buses arriving at the polls – forever.
slag
@Martin:
The only problem I have with this solution is that it seems like only half a solution. How do we get to electric cars without widescale infrastructure to support them? How do we capture solar energy without the smart grid? We can let private companies make the products, but giving away our infrastructure rights and responsibilities is a whole other ball of wax. One that I would have an extremely hard time supporting.
Judge Crater
The election, as we all know, will turn on the state of the economy next fall. With that as a given, we (Democrats) may be totally fucked.
But, elections aside, the short end of the stick has already found its home: the plutocracy has won. The poor, the unemployed, the people without any kind of personal safety net, the paycheck-to-paycheck households (which is a majority of Americans) are going to face real hardship. CBS news had report about a woman in Thomasville, NC who is making sure that needy kids get a real lunch during summer vacation. She mentioned growing up poor when her mother would boil water and put dirt in it to give to the six kids. Dirt soup.
That’s where we’re headed – Let them eat soup. Dirt soup.
WyldPirate
@FlipYrWhig:
Oh, I don’t know, flip. Why don’t you start keeping track of it and charting it if you are so interested.
I could ask you the same thing about the nearly 100% frequency of some lame-assed excuse from you for something Obama has done followed by a tedious exhibition of “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” explanation of said excuse.
CaliCat
John, get a grip. Really.
That’s all I have to say.
Just Some Fuckhead
@arguingwithsignposts: Around here, some churches are polling places, which really pisses me off. It’s like home field advantage.
boss bitch
@harlana:
Every single time Obama has brought up cuts or deficits he immediately follows it with several statements about making sure we still invest in ways to make the economy stronger. Everything he said in the Rose Garden today, he’s said before. But no one seems to point that out because it doesn’t fit the ‘ZOMG Obama believes in austerity’ lie.
So now that this HISTORIC debt deal has passed, he can say, ‘we have our house in order so lets get to those jobs I talked about’. Then of course the GOP will start shouting DEFICIT and the public will look at them and think ‘WTF we just dealt with that shit.’
Martin
@dollared:
30%? What bullshit is that?
arguingwithsignposts
@Just Some Fuckhead: I especially like how sometimes politicians get to speak from the pulpit – and this is really a “both sides do it” thing. Or the preacher getting up and talking about how “we have to support our congressman who’s doing god’s will” (actually heard that one). Yeah, it’s sorta shit with their tax-exempt status.
General Stuck
Yawn. Obama will do fine, but will likely lose the FDL vote, again. The economy is going to get going, and put the lie to The Church of Krugman. Psychology is a big component of decisions made by those who have the industrial controls in the private sector. I think they were just waiting to see that someone was doing a little something about what they care about. And that is a lack of concern for sounder over all fiscal policy coming from the government. There really is a “confidence fairy” and it gets happy when the pols manage their financial affairs in a more rounded way. These cuts are not near deep enough, or soon enough to have much effect on economic growth from a demand perspective.
boss bitch
@danimal:
Yeah, he’s lucky that there people arrogant and stupid enough to think they can beat him.
Martin
@slag:
You think the federal government owns that infrastructure? They own none of it. Never have. They have regulatory authority and that’s it.
FlipYrWhig
@WyldPirate: For your benefit, I’ll see if I can make more of my posts involve the anus.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
Oh, goodie, so we may well have Obama as president again in November of 2012. And what’ll we get? Will he have a blue Congress to work with, or will he continue to play pattycakes with a bunch of moronic T.P.er’s and Rethuglicans? Do you think the second term is when his true progressive colors will show and he’ll start really and truly supporting science and education? Think he’ll step up to the plate in a meaningful way on same-sex issues and the environment? Think we’ll no longer be an active presence in Iraq and Afghanistan? I’ll vote ‘O’, but I am very disheartened.
Just Some Fuckhead
@WyldPirate:
He’s got ya there, Flippers. It’s almost embarrassing watching you do your work here now. But you give it all you’ve got and take pride in it, unlike Nick, so you’ve got that going for ya.
aisce
@ dipshit stuck
this is the craziest fucking thing you’ve written yet. it explains so much about who you are and how you process things. cult of krugman and confidence fairies, indeed.
slag
@Martin: No I don’t think the federal government owns that infrastructure. But the federal government helps fund that infrastructure.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
John,
Since you’re obviously off of whatever you were on yesterday, I give you the name of the last president who dealt with a really, really bad economy, the only one that has been worse than this one: FDR. He had to die to stop winning.
I am not going to worry about the election next year, just work and give money to get Obama back in office and a bunch of Dems in Congress. If the US can’t see what the Republicans are doing to them, and what Obama has done for them, then it must be time for the country to go loudly into the night.
FlipYrWhig
@Just Some Fuckhead: Um, I’ll take that as praising with faint damn, I guess. I think it’s interesting to try to figure out why politicians do and say what they do. I also think it’s interesting to keep track of the entirety of the statements they make, rather than trying to seize upon the shortest, most incriminating remark along the way. It’s definitely a lot more interesting than dick-measuring contests about who’s the maddest, truest, purest progressive.
General Stuck
@aisce:
Blow it out your ass
And watch what happens with the economy
grandpajohn
@jazzgurl:
Another name to add to the list of those who have been paying attention
Lojasmo
Fuck this emo shit. Without reading the thread, I put the over-under on having been trolled at 85%
arguingwithsignposts
@grandpajohn: that was me, just for the record.
MosesZD
I’m sorry, but Obama is “Black Richard Nixon” not Black Jimmy Carter. Nixon, like Obama, has pursued disastrous domestic policies in response to an economic problem and, like Nixon, will make it worse, not better.
If you don’t like Nixon, go ‘Hoover.’
The Populist
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
I’m with you as the Supreme Court matters more to me than a lot of the silly points people use against him. Sure he’s a pussy, but he’s our pussy and until we get congress back in balance with more dems who will DO WHAT WE WANT, he’s kinda fucked regardless.
The Populist
Argh, moderation sucks.
cckids
All I can add is; this too shall pass. Wasn’t that long ago, when Obama got bin Laden, & the common “wisdom” was that the election was in the bag; nothing could stop him & the awesome good-feeling glow that event brought. Today, the doom clouds have rolled in & the meme of the week is that he’ll be lucky to get re-elected.
The basic truth is; it is too far away to know. People basically like the man; that is his strongest weapon. Lather, rinse, repeat. This too shall pass.
The Populist
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
I’m with you as the Supreme Court matters more to me than a lot of the silly points people make against him. Sure he’s a wimp, but he’s our wimp and until we get congress back in balance with more dems who will DO WHAT WE WANT, he’s kinda screwed regardless.
MintyGel
2006-2008, despite the economy was a vote against the wars. Centrists or Liberals, doesn’t matter. They don’t support an endless war state. The millenials don’t support an endless war state. The media, and a lot of people, have forgotten it is now 5 fronts, drone wars and stop loss to the point of the destruction of the standing army. And these are now Obama’s wars. His decisions. His decision to scale back “entitlements” to fund his wars. You don’t think people are going to notice that, eventually?
If Obama is primaried a lot of this is going to come back up to the surface. It doesn’t even matter if there’s a legitimate candidate to primary him with. As the economy deteriorates, as the rug continues to get pulled out from under vulnerable people (many of whom generally lean Dem) Obama has problems of his own making. The stats on people under 30 unemployed are horrific. They won’t show at the polls. Their choices are now living with parents or joining the army of the eternal war.
The risk on the left is always demoralization in terms of elections. Voter apathy in an evenly divided voting population is death to the candidate but moreso on the left because the right can be whipped by hatred against the “other” [pick ur victim of the day] and driven by fear. It is absolutely inexplicable that Obama and company have chosen to so blatantly demoralize the base. Not just progressives. The base.
You can lose at 11 dimension chess too when you get so absorbed in the opponents’ moves that you abandon strategy of your own.
Danny
@General Stuck:
I would say that if we’re lucky, the economy gets going. We’ve given it a fighting chance with the ARRA and the lame duck deal and by keeping cuts to a minimum before fiscal 2013.
Now we cant do much more than hope for the best. Nov 2010 killed any chance of seeing new jobs legislation in this congress.
Just Some Fuckhead
@FlipYrWhig:
Spoken like someone with a tiny dick.
The Populist
@cckids:
Advice to Obama and his handlers:
Focus on making congress get onto jobs programs. The public will be with you on this.
AlphaLiberal
Well, nice rant. I like it. Except for the progressive-bashing which is weird because the nice rant sounded like it was written by a – shudder- progressive.
The Populist
@Danny:
I own a small business and business is slow but up over last year. I have faith. As I always say, fuck the tax cuts righties, give me CUSTOMERS please.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@MintyGel:
[ citation needed ]
FlipYrWhig
@Just Some Fuckhead: Ron Jeremy doesn’t have many interesting dick-measuring contests either.
Danny
@MintyGel:
Obama’s has winded down Iraq and he’s winding down Afghanistan. There’s a deal in place to hand Afghanistan over by 2014, though not everyone seem to have heard about it for some reason.
The Populist
@General Stuck:
Funny, if those fuckers stay home they are useless and dumb. They are no smarter than tea baggers. Who the hell are they gonna vote for? Romney? LOL.
The Populist
@Danny:
Gee, I wonder why, LOL. That Liberal Media!!!!
grandpajohn
@arguingwithsignposts: Yeah, I know . I don’t know how the hell that happened but I did the same thing last night.
aisce
@ danny and general “animal spirits!” stuck
douchebags, the economy is not a magic genie. it doesn’t just do things, or not do things, on its own accord. there is no magic, there is no wishing spells, there is no luck involved.
there is demand. and demand sucks. there’s your fucking answer. that’s all you need to know.
Lojasmo
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I think flipyerwig is a chick, so, yeah.
Just testing the reply function, really.
Anybody here from Minnesota?
Strandedvandal
Some of you people are just amazing. Do you do this Eyeore thing all the time? What miserable lonely lives you must have. “Woe is me… I am so misunderstood” Meh. Fucking whiny jackasses. And to that moron who claimed that the Emo Progs have “been proven right”, Levitra or whatever the hell your name is, you haven’t been right about a single goddamn thing so far. NOT ONE THING. So piss off and go back to cutting yourself.
The Populist
@John O:
Fact: Gore lost due to style points. Gore got burned much the way Dean did by a media that focuses on the way Gore spoke during debates to what he wore. SNL did many skits on the LOCK BOX comment and nobody really tarred Bush the same way outside of his favorite philosopher question.
grandpajohn
@MosesZD: you should have stopped after the first 2 words and then your post would have made sense.
eclecticbrotha
Maybe Obama should hire Ed Grimley to be his campaign manager. Or, we could stop climbing on our ledges 15 months before the election and use our blogs, comment sections and twitter accounts to tell Americans that wingnuts are fucking insane.
slag
@aisce:
Great. You had to go and ruin it, didn’t you? Will no one think of the children?!
Danny
@The Populist:
Yep, I’m cautiously optimistic. Bumps in the road arent unheard of in recoveries and we had a spring with the Tsunami and European austerity and the Greece stuff. But we’re not in a new recession and things could go either way.
Scheduled cut’s arent big enough in 2012 to make a big difference, the bigger problem I’d say is when some of the stuff from the lame duck deal and ARRA runs out at the end of the year. If the economy hasnt picked up pace again by then maybe there’s gonna be trouble.
The Populist
@aisce:
Goes back to my point about needing more customers and I could care less about tax cuts for me or my business. I want these morons on the right to wake up and realize that government IS the consumer of last resort in a deep recession. God…I hate how the right dumb everything down to these dumb platitudes. I am a job creator I guess, but I don’t want a tax break…I want that money to go to people who will SPEND it on my products and brands. God.
General Stuck
@Danny:
We have had a 1.5 trillion deficits three years running. There is an awesome amount of fed government spending going on, from all sorts of small but cumulative spending add ons from Obama and dems in congress, and even wingers.
The ACA will be getting geared up and staffed up and spending start up funds for when it gets cranking in 2014. And extending the Bush tax cuts kept several hundred billion in the private economy, that would have been lost if not extended.
But we shall see, and you are right that nothing much more will get passed out of congress, or the House that adds extra spending. And we will just have to wait and see if my theory, and that of some others comes to pass.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Not worried. Economy could be good, could be OK, could be moribund. The problem is when the tires hit the road and Obama’s no longer up against T. Generic Republican. Either Bachmann wins and the moderates flee from crazy eyes in droves, or Romney squeaks out a win and the fundies and Teahadis leave the President portion of their ballot blank. Either situation is good news for John McCain.
Perry could bridge the gap, but we’re now less than a month away from Labor Day and dude still is doinking around. I don’t think he really wants the job, as much as the media is desperate for him to join in and prevent the run-up to next November from becoming a snoozer, but he’ll take all the attention he can get before then. Even if he did jump in late, the ghost of George W. Bush ads can write themselves.
The Populist
@Danny:
I am worried about the bubble building in China w/r/t Real Estate but outside of that, I am optimistic.
FlipYrWhig
@Lojasmo:
Gender is a social construct. Also, actually a dude.
boss bitch
@Danny:
Oh they heard, they just don’t believe it. Once he’s out of those countries, they’ll move to making bets about his next war.
This is what the left does. Demand XYZ, Obama takes steps to accomplish XYZ, “base” says, ‘meh, you’ll never really do it. Its just wooorddszzz. I’ll beleeb it when I ssssseeee it.” But once XYZ is done they ignore it or move on to another topic.
OzoneR
@Lolis:
When Gillibrand ran for the House in 2006, she supported a Balanced Budget Amendment.
The Populist
@General Stuck:
If your view takes off, Obama wins…period.
Keith G
@Martin:
With respects, it is a cost to someone and those someones have clout.
I hope it works out, will be a titanic struggle.
Danny
@aisce:
Neither is the economy some passive automaton that is only acted upon by government spending. There’s a reason why you dont know if DJ is gonna be up 20% or down 20% one year from now. If you knew you’d be rich(er).
The Populist
@boss bitch:
He’ll never win anymore than Boehner can with his tea party tards (not that I care what Boehner does). The fact is the vocal extreme of any party will always be unhappy about something.
cckids
@The Populist:
We have a small business, too; this is our best year since 2006-7. It isn’t fabulous, but FINALLY, it doesn’t suck. As for the tax BS, if you truly cannot stay open because you find your business taxes too onerous, you are doing it wrong.
FlipYrWhig
@Lolis:
Lots of progressive politicians believe in deficit reduction. Here’s Michael Capuano, D-MA, being interviewed by Jake Tapper for the Dartmouth Alumni Magazine:
CaliCat
To all you emo-proggers, get used to being disheartened. In your lifetimes, you will never see your fantasy liberal get elected president. Therefore, you will always be disappointed. Chin up, at least you’ll always have the blogs.
OzoneR
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
I definitely think he’ll push to repeal Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and stop defending DOMA in his second term
oh wait
General Stuck
@aisce:
The economy is not some inanimate entity, like a combustion engine and its simple physics to operate. It is a human construct and is affected by the whims of the humans that have the job creating levers in their hands. And they don’t think like you or me, or Krugman. They have their own concerns, and one of them is the government handling its fiscal affairs in all around fashion. And huge deficit spending worries them, and no one will get hired until ALL of their concerns are dealt with. I didn’t say we will have a boom economy, and don’t believe we will. But I do suspect that those who hire and who are sitting on trillions of capital, will react positively to long term deficit reduction, and congress paying attention to it.
You can call me crazy and anything you want, don’t make me no never mind. I think for myself. We shall all watch and wait.
Maude
@MosesZD:
No, no, no, no, he’s Black Ronald Reagan. You haven’t been paying attention. Try to get caught up.
The Populist
@cckids:
Agreed. I sell some of my wares on various marketplaces like Amazon and I can tell you how amazed I am that people whine about how often they get paid by those sites. If you can’t cushion yourself for a couple weeks selling online, you shouldn’t be selling at all.
Same thing with taxes…if I pay more THANK THE GODS…why? This means I am TAKING IN MORE. I can’t understand the greedhounds who want more and more at the expense of even their own shareholders.
Danny
@General Stuck:
I’ll gladly buy into your optimism, if for no other reason than doom-and-gloom being a bubble economy atm :)
The Populist
@FlipYrWhig:
Deficit reduction is good for one reason: It means we can take cash and invest in good things again. The right wants the added zing of BALANCED BUDGETS to keep the dems from ever spreading money around to good ideas and investments by limiting how much the gov’t can ever spend again.
cckids
@The Populist:
This is very true, and a sad commentary on our electorate. It is why Gore lost; it is why W won, what kept Bill Clinton in office; why (in large part) Obama won over Hillary. Name the last election where the more straightlaced, uptight candidate won over the warm, friendly, “guy-you’d-like to have a beer with” candidate. It is infuriating, even when the person you want wins. It is a deeply fucked up way to run a country.
Danny
@General Stuck:
Agreed. Among the american electorate, Krugmanism is sadly undervalued; With Krugman, the confidence genie is undervalued.
But Krugman is doing an important job selling Keynes and progressivism to the public so more guys like him are sorely needed; I just wish he’d go a bit more light on the doom-and-gloom now that this particular fight is over with.
Davis X. Machina
@MosesZD: Does that mean he’ll win a second term 65%-35%?
Just Some Fuckhead
Can we get a Stuck’s Folksy Bullshit About the Economy Open Thread? We can’t rely solely on alcohol to deaden brain cells.
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
A thimble full should do for you.
Tom Q
@cckids: Well, Gore actually won. And I’d say Humphrey was a whole lot warmer than Nixon.
Hell, Nixon damn near took out Charmisma King Jack in 1960, so there’s obviously more to it than a simple personality contest. It is, though, true that charismatic personalities tend to win their elections and re-elections…as part and parcel of whatever kiss from the divine made them charismatic to begin with.
All of which, by the way, is yet another counter-argument to John’s gloomy assessment of Barack’s chances next year. Name me the last charismatic candidate who lost a presidential election.
FlipYrWhig
@Tom Q:
As a corollary, which race had less combined charisma, Ford vs. Carter, or Bush I vs. Dukakis?
aisce
@ danny
this has nothing to do with the state. what is wrong with you? you seemingly have no idea how an economy grows and functions.
where is demand growth coming from? residential investment? stuck, bless his stupid, stupid heart, at least has a mechanism in mind. it’s absurd. it’s crazy. corporations aren’t sitting on money because of the government’s fucking finances. they’re doing it because of their customers’ finances. but at least he goes further than “man, i sure hope the economy gets all better so the president gets reelected easily! fap fap fap fap fap.”
are you five years old?
General Stuck
@Danny:
Absolutely. That is my problem with Kthug. He gets on tangents and starts getting myopic. These things I am talking about are not just my brain farts. If you got Krugman alone, or about any good economist they will tell you for sure that the confidence genie, or fairy, is an important element. As is general Keyne’s theory, that also includes not raising taxes during a recovery, and long term deficit reduction. I like Krugman, and don’t like slamming him for his political pundit shortcomings and lack of a more full an honest writings of the topic he is very good at, the economy, other than just stim all the time. It is more complicated than just that, and he knows it.
Suffern ACE
@FlipYrWhig: Bush v. Dukakis. I actually liked Jimmy and that smile. He was like the national Mr. Rogers to me.
OK I was six at the time.
Marginalized for stating documented facts
@Loviatar:
Preach it, brother. You and Corner Stone are about the only ones with a handle on reality left on this blog.
The DFHs predicted 3 years ago, based on the evidence of Obama’s ongoing federal raids on state marijuana dispensaries, that Obama’s toning-down-the-war-on-drugs pabulum was bullshit. The DFHs were right, John Cole was dead wrong, and Cole as usual told the DFHs to eat a bag of dicks.
Then the DFHs predicted 2 years ago, based on the evidence of Obama’s groveling and cringing before Petraeus, that Obama was the Pentagon’s bitch and that his announced withdrawal from Afghanistan was bullshit and that America would have more troops in Afghanistan in 2012 than it had back in late 2009. The DFHs were right, John Cole was dead wrong, and Cole as usual told the DFHs to go lick a dog’s ass till it bleeds.
Then the DFHs predicted a year ago, based on the evidence of Obama’s insane decision to freeze all government spending except our wasteful pointless military spending, that the economy would continue to collapse and unemployment would keep skyrocketing until the unemployment rate hit 10% by the time Obama ran for re-election in 2012 and as a result if the Republians nominated anyone with a pulse, the Repub would win. The DFHs were right, John Cole was dead wrong, and as usual Cole told the DFHs to go blow a donkey.
Anyone see something wrong with this picture…?
OzoneR
@John Cole
Lets ask the good people of Nassau County, New York who rejected spending $400 million on a big infrastructure projects that would have kept thousands of jobs there and added some more.
Here’s the kicker, Democrats overwhelmingly voted no.
Danny
@boss bitch:
Well, I got to hold out hope that this is not what the left does, I’d rather keep on calling them the nutroots. And I think that’s gonna be true until we reach a tipping point with the dem base “misery index” where it’s gotten to be too much of everything, particularly a bad economy and unemployment so the mainstream “left” gets pulled down as well.
But sure – the nutroots and the so-called professional left who are still defined by the Vietnam era New Left tradition of viewing every politician as someone who’s potentially a new LBJ or Hubert Humphrey – in other words The Man and out to fuck you in the ass – sure they do.
And they’ve helped us lose election after election and made us progressively more marginalized. But I think the outcome of the Obama presidency is gonna decide if New Left mentality will continue to persist within american progressivism or if it will be marginalized. If Obama prevails and is a successful President I’m betting on the latter, and if that’s the case I’m holding out hope for the start of a new progressive era in US politics.
cckids
@FlipYrWhig:
Well, yes. For me, I’d have to say that Bush/Dukakis was a sucking black hole of non-charisma, & that the one photo of Dukakis on the tank was enough to tip the scales against him.
Carter, at least, had/has a certain if not charm, at least comfortable manner that made most of us think he wasn’t full of shit. He reminded me of some of my grandpa’s friends, with a southern accent. And he was so intelligent, which helped.
Samara Morgan
chillax, dude.
the retardicans still don’t have a candidate.
Romney is a MORMON.
Tom Q
@Suffern ACE: I agree. Jimmy — before tripled oil prices/hostage crisis — had the look of a winner about him. And Ford was likable if dull — a big relief considering who preceded him.
Bush/Dukakis on the other hand was like a beauty contest between two ugly people.
FlipYrWhig
@Marginalized for stating documented facts:
There appears to be a big blank area in that picture where an explanation should go of how the DFHs use their rightness and predictive powers to make something different actually come to pass.
Marginalized for stating documented facts
@General Stuck:
100% certified bullshit. Guaranteed.
Show me the employer who refuses to hire because “government policies damage my confidence.”
That’s crap. Never happens. Ever. Not once.
Employers always base the decision to hire on one issue, and one issue only:
Do we have enough demand for our products?
If buyers beat on the doors of the company begging to purchase their products, the guy who runs the company will go on a hiring binge that’ll make a drunken sailor’s spree look tame.
Employers in America in 2011 are not hiring for one reason, and only one reason:
There’s no goddamn demand for goods and services in the economy.
And that’s happening because the American economy is collapsing and the American middle class is disappearing.
Get a clue, fool. Aggregate demand is the only thing that matters in a recession. If aggregate demand picks up, employrs will start hiring. That’s all that counts. All that “confidence” horseshit is fantasy doubletalk designed by heritage foundation windbags in a failed and futile effort to justify unjustifiable continued tax cuts for the rich.
Next time you post something, spew out something other than far-right wing talking points. Otherwise people are not going to take you seriously.
Samara Morgan
@boss bitch: we are gettin fucking KICKED out of Iraq in December.
they are gunna get their noses rubbed in it.
and once we are out of Iraq, the Arab Spring is creeping on AfPak without that Murrican presence to “balance” China and Iran. ;)
Obama isn’t “winding down” anything– hes folding our tents to slip away as quietly as we can.
Marginalized for stating documented facts
@FlipYrWhig:
Vote.
That’s the answer to your big mystery. Which actually isn’t a mystery at all.
Most of the DFHs are young people. Young people don’t vote. If as large a percentage of people under 25 voted as the percentage of people over 60 who vote, America would turn cobalt blue overnight.
Also, if under-25 Americans stopped stupidly volunteering to become brain-damaged basket cases courtesy of IEDs in America’s endless unwinnable foreign wars, America’s foreign adventures would screech to a grinding halt and U.S. military spending would plunge overnight. That would leave us enough money for things like, you know, repairing our crumbling highways, fixing our rusting bridges, and educating our children.
General Stuck
@Marginalized for stating documented facts:
You must be a deacon in The Church of Krugman. And I don’t give a tinkers damn whether you or anyone else on this blog takes me seriously. You are the one spewing left wing talking points. I agree with stimulus, but other factors as well that are just as important in the end as demand. And i’ve always cared about deficit spending, even when fuckwit emo progs also did when Bush was president. Now piss off you hypocritical piece of shit.
Samara Morgan
@Marginalized for stating documented facts: the problem is….the “freed” market is Murrican doctrine. it cannot be challenged.
all the ‘tards believe in it.
but the problem is free market economics is teleologically incapable of improving the human condition….on empirical observation it only improves the condition of the overclass.
General Stuck
@Marginalized for stating documented facts:
You aren’t any kind of DFH. I was a real one. You are a mouthy punk that writes bullshit on lefty blogs, and thinks that is some kind of brilliant beacon of truth.
Fucking firebaggers, crawl back in yer holes.
JohnR
@RareSanity:
I completely agree. And if we were holding the 2000 or 2004 election again, I might be as carefree as you are. Unfortunately we’re going to be holding the 2012 election with (a) an economy that is very likely to be worse than it is now, (b) and economy that has been bad for most people for the better part of a decade, (c) a President that even many liberals appear to feel somewhat equivocal about, (d) a media which is thoroughly corrupted and even more anti-DFH than usual, (e) a population which is increasingly fearful and angry, and (f) voting machinery which is, at best, of significant potential for corruption. Maybe that last will serve to swing the primary in Romney’s favor, but maybe not. I think the conventional wisdom underestimates Michelle Bachmann. She’s bat-shit insane, yes, but she works very hard, she has definite charisma and she is absolutely certain about what she says. The first thing I learned about leadership in the Boy Scouts was if you sound like you know what you’re talking about, people will believe you and people will follow you. It works. I’m putting my money on Bachmann to win the nomination, and I think she would give Obama a tough run if the election was held today. By next year, I think she’s the odds-on favorite. But then, luckily I’m just a pessimistic ranter, because if I was right, we’d really be in the shitter.
Corner Stone
@Marginalized for stating documented facts:
Oh, don’t blame President Stuck. He doesn’t actually know anything about the economy or business or how people interact in real life.
So he just takes his cues from President Obama, who’s been telling him the business confidence fairy needs to be fed and all will be well.
OzoneR
@Samara Morgan
Yet another reason why Democrats shouldn’t bother fighting for anything to please the base, they’ll always find some wrench to throw into a victory. Though I never believed it would be “Obama isn’t willingly ending the war in Iraq, he’s cutting and running.” That’s pretty ridiculous.
Svensker
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I shouldn’t have, but I LOL’d.
OC
@Cat Lady: Amen to that.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Svensker: You really in Canada?
OzoneR
@Marginalized for stating documented facts:
LOL as a young voters, I LOL at this. Young people would vote for Ron Paul if they could.
Johannes
@cckids: Oh, God that frakkin tank picture. That was when I knew we had lost–Dukakis looked like a prairie dog wearing a tea cosy.
Yes, that was the sucking black hole of suckitude–and it brought the wrath from high atop the thing.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
You and fuckhead just going to follow me around from thread to thread with the Stuck is a big poopyhead drivel? Yawn. You know how many times that has happened, and it is still a waster of band width, though it does meet the daily blog allowance of braindead wankery. It’s just not as much fun as it was to make a fool out of you both. Now you are stuck of stupid and no one can do anything about it. Beavis and Fuckhead. LOL.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
Hey, Ozone @198 ~ To be honest, I don’t personally have a horse in that particular race (the same-sex issue). I’m a breeder, but I’ve got family members and friends for whom Obama’s efforts on same-sex issues is regarded with tepid satisfaction. I think DODT should have been repealed long ago. Not defending DOMA is not the same thing as actively trying to make progressive change — it’s just (IMO) not defending the indefensible. No, I don’t think that if he proposes legalizing same-sex marriage that he’ll have a real winner on his hand that has a snow-ball’s chance in hell of passing through Congress. I guess I’d just like a little more grit from him, in particular in regards to science, global warming, supporting education, getting our expensive military-industrial complex out of so many global pies (as it were), and doing something that makes me say, “Actually, Sarah P(inhead), that hopey-changey thing is working out great! How’s the whiner-quitter thing working for you?”
Svensker
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Yup. Canukistan R Us.
Danny
@aisce:
I really dont understand what you’re on about here. My proposition was that macro-economics in a global economy is more complex than “government spending will be cut by 0.1% in fiscal 2012 and we had bad job growth for two months straight, we’re all doooomed!!!”.
Positive reinforcement by people getting employed, spending more, causing business to gain confidence about future prospects and hiring more people and investing? Business management acting on what they read in the WSJ? Fewer people sitting on mortgage costs they cant afford and thereby having more money for consumption?
And their customers finances and willingness to spend money are affected by “the economy”. Funny that, huh?
My compliments on the rant and gratuitous masturbation reference. That should be mandatory for all B-J posts imho.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@General Stuck:
Oh, you still are, if DFH = Diarrhea From Hell. So be of good cheer!
.
.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Son, anyone who talks about the confidence fairy being the major lever for American business investment shouldn’t mouth off to too many people.
Elie
@Corner Stone:
President Stuck? I thought that YOU were President.
EWWWW that would be so nice.. then we could swear at you and call you names for sitting on your – fine reputation.
Love to see what you could do, Mr Millstone, sir…ewww — just know you would be tops…
Just Some Fuckhead
@Svensker: Would you mind very much emailing me? I want to talk about Canada. jack dot jackson zero five one two at gmail dot com.
Corner Stone
@Elie: Get your hands out of your sweatpants, you naughty little thing.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
Are you retarded? I only responded to you over there because you felt like you should include me in a screed in a thread in which I was not even participating.
In this thread, you made me laugh with your typical stoopidity so I commented. In a perfect world, you wouldn’t even exist and no one would ever have to deal with you.
Taobhan
I concur with John Cole: Obama has just made his reelection a whole lot less likely. He’s got the worst economy in a long time (not all his fault but he’ll be blamed for not doing enough to fix it). And he just gave away the best tool available to improve the severe unemployment problem. The GOP (and Tea Party particularly) have worked to worsen the economy and they want to make sure the voters hang it on Obama. And it’ll probably work because … that’s just the way things work these days. The Republicans never get their own shit on them any longer – they just wipe it on the Democrats and the nation applauds them.
Danny
@Taobhan:
I just thought this was funny because you’re actually blaming Obama more for the economy than middle of the road, center-right Ammuricca who mostly blames Dubya.
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
You are correct, at least for this thread, I shouldn’t have added you on to my comment to corner stone. But give us all a break, it is hard to tell the difference between two idiots that say the same idiotic things day in and out.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Son, anyone that believes a word you type is an idiot of Texas size dimension. There are a few of them around here, but all of those i could care less about. No exceptions.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Ok, so…”confidence fairy” for business? Or no?
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck: You really need to stick to what you know best Stuck, macroeconomics.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Confidence fairy is a term made up by people who believe the economy is some kind of combustion engine that you poor gas into and it goes. The economy is not that, it is a man made and managed device where confidence of this or that matters to those who do have their hands on the levers of job creation.
I now this is impossible for a simple minded human cesspool to grasp. As it involves some critical thinking skills I have seen none of from you. It is all emo and hate. ALL of it. The only variable is who or what it is aimed at at any given point in time.
Fuckhead loves you though, Don’t you fuckhead?
Just Some Fuckhead
Sometimes I think Stuck is a Republican plant to make us think all Obots are mindless, spiteful fucks.
Cain
I think Obama should put aside his “let’s be adults” persona and start turning into a firebrand. It has been proven that Republicans are not trustworthy, and will not follow any kind of deal.
It’s time to hammer them. Hammer them hard.
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Sometimes I think fuckhead is complete psychopath that lives on another planet. And only visits us here on earth, to say stupid shit.
edit – and i am thinking that very thing at this very moment.
Jeffro
Obama 51% PV, Romney 48% PV
Electoral count: Obama 2008 minus 25-35 EVs.
He’ll win, because the Republicans have done just enough (especially in the battleground states) to make this a choice election, instead of a referendum on Obama/the economy. And because Romney sucks, can’t connect, is Mormon, will pick a Teabagger as a running mate, etc.
After all that, imho, we can expect another four years of Obama talking about how “Washington” is broken (instead of the Republican Tea Party being the vandals) and the U.S. limping ever so slowly into the New Normal: .5% growth, 9%+ (official) unemployment, and so on.
America: the Progressive Caucus is ready whenever you are! =)
plynch22
The Kerry states are going nowhere. That puts you at 252. So your potential paths to victory are:
* win Ohio (how is Mitt’s call to let the auto companies die going to play here?)
* win Florida (Ryan plan, Ryan plan, Ryan plan)
* win Nev., Col., and NM (where he had big double-digit wins in Nev and NM and almost 10 points in Col.)
* win Iowa and Indiana (OK, Indiana’s probably not sticking around for the second game of the double-header, but Iowa? 9-point win last time)
* win Iowa and Colorado
* win Iowa and Virginia
* win NM or Nev and Virginia
* win NM or Nev and NC
These are a handful of the combos. Montana and Missouri are still in play (1.5 and .1 point losses, respectively).
Let’s not forget that McCain would have gotten crushed were it not for the surge of base support from the Palin pick. If Romney has the nom, the base will not be thrilled, just as they weren’t with McCain. Romney has nothing to run on but being the anti-Obama. He can’t bash at healthcare without sounding like a complete hypocrite. Perry — give me a break. Do you think people are going to trust a back-slapping Texas governor with the WH any time soon?
Obama reformed healthcare and Wall St. Obama saved the U.S. auto industry. Obama put us on the first steps of a path toward smarter energy policy. Obama made too-cautioned but reasonable steps in Iraq and Afghanistan and many, many more troops will be home by this time next summer. Obama got bin Laden. Obama got rid of DADT and DOMA.
And let’s see my memory is kind of failing me, but I kind of have this hazy memory of Obama being kind of good on the campaign trail.
The fact remains that he will get into debate with one of these guys and they’ll look like whining sore losers and he’ll cut them to pieces.
Yes, he’s running uphill against the economy and an insane opposition. But he’s a good runner.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck:
Great! So “confidence fairy” for business it is for you, then. Thanks.
Reformed Panty Sniffer
@MosesZD:
I don’t think Obama is as truly devious as Tricky Dick. He is more likely afflicted with some sort of malignant cluelessness that strikes at elites/academics at this point, what with all the Republican handjobs and hippie punching he’s been doing. He seems more weak willed than Carter with a touch of Gore’s perceived arrogance.
When you get “de-pants” by the likes of Eric Cantor, you’re in trouble.
I think “the Black Ronald Reagan (Raygun)” would be a fitting tag line.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
I said as much in my first comment on the subject you braindead shithead. It is part of it. Can’t you fucking read?
General Stuck
Corner Stone is a parasite on this blog, a dead weight of lies and hate. Why any of you give him sustenance is beyond me. You get the blog comment section you deserve.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Just Some Fuckhead:
He is a well-known Republican ratfucker. Everybody around here knows that and mocks him for it. And that’s not the worst of it.
.
.
Hill Dweller
Sadly, I think Cole is right.
A double dip was looking likely even before this deal, but now it’s all but assured. Obama should call it extortion and blame the slowing economy on the “deal”.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Are you as stupid about business as you are about politics?
Wait. Don’t answer that.
Little reminder for you:
Corner Stone
But let’s all continue telling each other that American business doesn’t have enough “confidence” to hire people!
Because that makes sense!
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
You said there would be a second vote and Obama would cave on SS and medicare. I don’t care about anything else, of who was right or wrong about guessing the outcome IN PROCESS, that I had no idea about how it would play out. But there will be no extension, no second vote, until after the election. AND NO GUTTING MEDICARE AND SS. Regardless what clowns like you puke out.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: No I didn’t. Find it and quote it. If I said it, it’s there somewhere.
I did say they’d need some time (weeks) for technical details like CBO scoring to get it all sorted and was wrong on that timeline. But never said anything about Obama otherwise.
Quote it here, please.
Jeffro
So basically only plynch22 and I are playing here?
Mr. Cole, we can haz 2012 predictionz thread, just for bragging rights down the road?? Why not, right?
AxelFoley
@RareSanity:
This right here.
Cole, you been hangin’ around FDL or DKos lately or sumthin’? The fuck is up with this “Woe is me” bullshit? Damn you lefties (even new ones like yourself) throw in the towel with a quickness.
Corner Stone
@Jeffro:
I agree with this. Let’s have one we, who choose to, can all bookmark and talk smack about. Let’s get it all in one thread now and then again some time next Spring/Summer.
I think you should agitate for this Jeffro.
brendancalling
well, that’s what you get when you squander your incredible majorities and public support by pretending the republicans are reasonable, that we must meet them halfway, that everyone’s to blame.
Obama had a chance to destroy them and didn’t. I am happy to give plenty of examples of what everyone knows is true.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
you little asswipe, you asked my to do that yesterday when I said this, and then changed your fucked up little mind to not bother with it. After I had dug up the quotes. I’m not spending a second more of my time with your drunk ass.
And you spend all day on this blog hollering about how Obama is going to sell out SS and medicare. what a waste of air and space your miserable existence is.
Danny
@brendancalling:
Oh is that an option, destroying them? Great! Let’s do it. Where do we start?
priscianusjr
@<a hr@Strandedvandal:
Monkey Business
I’m wondering how exactly the President, or Congress for that matter, plans to create jobs.
They can’t pass another stimulus package.
A works progress administration or an infrastructure bank is out.
Funding to government programs and government funded research is about to be slashed to all time lows.
Hell, even the military, who might be the last department in government doing any kind of research and development, is being looked at with hungry eyes by deficit hawks.
We can’t even ask “Where are the jobs?” anymore. These guys couldn’t find their asses with two hands, a flashlight, and a GPS unit. How do we expect them to find a couple million jobs?
Oh yeah, I forgot. “The Free Market”. Because the free market has always been great about putting Americans back to work.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: C’mon now. If you had had something there’s not a force under merciful Keanu that would’ve stopped you from posting and commenting on it.
You don’t have anything because I’ve never said anything like what you’re claiming.
I have never said anything like what you’re claiming.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
hey Corner Stone, check out pricianusjr’ link. It’s addressed to you, among others.
The base doesn’t give a shit what you think, and neither do I. Bwwaaaaahahahahhahahhahhahhahah.
Corner Stone
@priscianusjr: Oh no! Another devastatingly insightful weeeeseeeeyou link!
Heavens no!
Aaaaaaggghhhh!!
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Yeah. They tell it like it is.
Thanks.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
You’re stuttering you drunk fool. you’re claiming You’ve never said Obama is going to sell out SS and medicare? Are you insane?
El Cid
I was still wondering which part of this was “Not to be all gloomy…”
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Drop something here where I have said that during the Debt Deal.
Don’t act all agog. You useless douche.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
The American people do, and especially the democratic ones that approve 2 to 1 that Obama done good with the debt deal. And the wingnuts hated it by near the same margin.
Now crawl back under that texas shitpile you live in.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
I’ll drop a sack of hammers on your drunk ass. Sleep it off,
Keith G
Oh good, our very own reenactment of the Star Trek TOS episode, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Can I ask you something? What are you trying to say?
Mnemosyne
@Marginalized for stating documented facts:
Wait, it’s already December of 2012 and you’ve been proven right?
Damn, this allergy medicine is stronger than I thought if I slept for over a year and only woke up after the 2012 election. Who won the 2012 World Series?
Keith G
@Corner Stone:
You and Stuck and Frank Gorshin
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Ok. Good enough.
OzoneR
@brendancalling:
Oh please, why, he decided not to carpetbomb the red states?
OzoneR
@Judge Crater:
Apparently, we were already there.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@JohnR:
I think the words you are looking for are ‘you can fool some of the people all of the time’. There’s no way Bachmann’s fooling enough to get 50%+1. Not when she’s cheering on default and hubby’s running an anti-gay ministry.
Rick Taylor
One thing I remember about Obama is he seems to campaign strongest when the challenge is greatest. So I’m expecting an extraordinary campaign in 2012.
TenguPhule
Obama needs to run on a “Fuck you GOP” theme.
When Boehner opens his mouth, the president needs to run up to him and kick him in the groin with steel tipped boots.
When they shout “You lie” he needs to bust a cap in them.
And Tax Credits for guillotines.
Will
Um, if it stands that the deal prevents a default and therefore a global recession, doesn’t it stand that the public is right to “believe the deal will help the economy”?
TenguPhule
It will go down in history as his greatest failure.
TenguPhule
I understand there is an excessive supply of right wing morons occupying valuable government employment. Perhaps removal and termination will free up jobs for the rest of us. And think of all the extra employment generated from digging all those unmarked graves!
Corner Stone
@TenguPhule: I’ve gotta tell you, I like where you’re going with this.
Kane
Department of Energy Secretary Steven Chu, announced last month that the administration has instituted a new program called Troops 2 Energy. The goal of the program is to provide soon to be discharged interested active duty service members with education, career training, and job placement so that they can transition into the energy industry with sustainable green energy jobs. The program is offered free of charge, and job placement can be made prior to the End of Active Service date. Educating and employing Veterans while addressing our energy future. It’s a win-win.
And best of all, the program didn’t need the approval of Congress. No filibusters, no obstruction, no hostage strategies, no Tea Party threats. The Obama administration was able to create this program very much like it did in stricking a new deal on fuel-efficiency standards with American auto makers. If the administration had sought approval from Congress on either of these deals, they would still be waiting.
The administration can’t wait for Congress to act on jobs. All departments throughout the administration need to think of similar creative ways of going around Congress to create jobs.
Kane
Last year, President Obama proposed the creation of a permanent Infrastructure Bank. The proposal would immediately inject $50 billion into infrastructure projects across the country, focusing on mass transit systems, housing properties, roads, bridges, drinking water systems, and wastewater systems. The proposal would address our need to rebuild our infrastructure while putting people back to work. The plan has widespread support from economists on all sides, as well as support from business and manufacturing groups and labor. Even the Chamber of Commerce offered their support. Unfortunately, the Republican congress has yet to push the bill forward.
As President Obama pointed out during the June 29th press conference, there are a number of bills sitting in congress that historically have had bipartisan support and that would help put more Americans back to work right now. But for some odd reason, the Republican congress wont move those bills forward. We all understand the Republican reluctance and their desire to drag their feet, but we all need to step up and get vocal to push Congress to act.
The Raven
Sympathies, John.
As always, I wish you leaders worthy of your loyalty.
The Raven
@Tonal Crow: actually, the largest plurality of voters makes decisions on personal loyalties, like John here. (There’s some part of this group that also includes personal dislikes.)
@Marginalized …: “Employers in America in 2011 are not hiring for one reason, and only one reason: There’s no goddamn demand for goods and services in the economy.”
There’s also the problem that, even if there is demand, they can’t float loans, because the banks are sitting on their cash.
The Populist
Sigh, The President doesn’t create jobs. It is HIS job to come up with ideas and push Congress to move on a plan. CONGRESS holds the distinction of being the governmental body that “creates jobs” since they control the purse strings.
Lydgate
Oh good lord. Does anyone really believe that Bachmann stands a chance of being nominated. In the last presidential Wall Street got their man, and they will this time when Romney is nominated.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Most people do see the debt as a problem. Most people think we need cuts. Period. If you don’t know this, you really are spending too much time in the progressive echo chamber. Liberals have failed to make their case to the public. Don’t get me wrong. I understand basic economics, and I agree (mostly) with folks like Krugman. However, while you people have spent all your time attacking each other on the internet, the GOP have been steadily and successfully convincing your neighbors that your preferred policies are unaffordable and don’t work. Obama would promote more liberal policies if the constituency pushing for them were bigger than a few people using ALLCAPS on the internet.
Pat
Just adorable. *wink*
sglover
Heh. Hilarious how Cole just can’t help himself. What a fucking clown.
wrb
@Hill Dweller:
Not on the deal, which is ok, but on the extortion.
Around here the confidence fairy is dead and rotting and it is in large part due to this spectacle. Investment was paralyzed while we waited to see if one of our parties purposely destroyed the economy.
Contributing to the stench is the belief that the government isn’t going to do with anything like the force that is needed. The confidence fairy doesn’t come to life spontaneously and a whole lotta people with their hands on the levers know their Keynes.
The dogma filling republican pinheads will prevent stimulus spending, the dogma filling democratic pinheads will prevent a tax holiday (the Reagan and Bush tax cuts were wrong but this is a different situation), and their ain’t any other good choices other than the Fed doing stuff the current board is very unlikely to do.
SectarianSofa
@sglover:
“What a fucking clown.” Projection!
SectarianSofa
@Kane:
The GOP becomes more and more pure (venomous and stupid) with each passing decade.