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You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Dow Comes Tumbling Down

The Dow Comes Tumbling Down

by John Cole|  August 2, 201112:14 pm| 225 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Still crashing. Apparently austerity is neither good for the public or our Galtian superheroes.

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Previous Post: « Oh, And One More Thing
Next Post: It’s always darkest before it goes pitch black »

Reader Interactions

225Comments

  1. 1.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Still crashing. Apparently austerity is neither good for the public or our Galtian superheroes.

    Nah. It’s just the banksters reminding you all who’s the boss.

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    August 2, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    i blame Obama

    /in before cleek

  3. 3.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 2, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Virtue is up, though on heavy volume. And probity.

  4. 4.

    scav

    August 2, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    hee hee hee hee hee

    (actually, no, I need a rounder sound than that. I’m sounding like a demented Santa)

  5. 5.

    Sad Iron

    August 2, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Actually, it’s crashing because my coffee isn’t that good, not because of austerity. Remember, the market reacts nervously to everything.

  6. 6.

    Chukwu

    August 2, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    neither good for the public or nor our Galtian superheroes.

    /grammar pedant

  7. 7.

    Samara Morgan

    August 2, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    this isn’t brit style austerity.
    there are no revenues.
    as usual, the Murricans look like retards to my euro-friends.
    this is teabaggerism and free market fuckery.

  8. 8.

    cleek

    August 2, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    i like that you can now see a headline like “A deal that saves the US economy? No — it may have made it worse” at the top of MSNBC.com. they wouldn’t even hint that such a thing was possible, before yesterday. but now they’re not taking sides, they’re only doing post-mortem analysis. good job!

  9. 9.

    sixthdoctor

    August 2, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Maybe a cathartic Wisconsin ActBlue bleg today?

  10. 10.

    Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)

    August 2, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Obviously, more tax cuts are needed.

    And the summary dismissal of some looters and strapping young bucks.

  11. 11.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    You know when I know someone doesn’t have a fucking clue? When they use whatever the stock market is doing today, yesterday (insert short time frame here) to make some sort of horseshit point.

    In this case I know you have no fucking clue so this naive statement of yours is no surprise.

    I could go on about how people were using daily gyrations in the Stock market immediately before/during/after healthcare reform but people like you will never get it. It’s in your DNA.

    Stay gloomy Captain Doom John Galt Cole.

  12. 12.

    JPL

    August 2, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Companies and consumers aren’t spending. The last several weeks not only cost us more in interest, it hurt our psyche.

  13. 13.

    WaterGirl

    August 2, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Crashing? The market is only down by 88 points since yesterday’s close, and it’s still above 12,000. How is that crashing?

  14. 14.

    TooManyJens

    August 2, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    @Derf: Yeah John, why isn’t this the Sunshine and Ponies blog?

  15. 15.

    Steve

    August 2, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    @Derf:

    I could go on about how people were using daily gyrations in the Stock market immediately before/during/after healthcare reform but people like you will never get it. It’s in your DNA.

    You probably should have stuck with the point about daily developments in the health care debate because that would actually be a good point. Suggesting that the debt ceiling deal wouldn’t be expected to have a short-term impact on the markets, when that issue has dominated debate for weeks, is not as impressive.

  16. 16.

    Stooleo

    August 2, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    O.T. Matt Damon schools Reason TV reporter and cameraman. h.t. boingboing

  17. 17.

    fasteddie9318

    August 2, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Look, this is complicated high financial-type dealings that the Peasant is intrinsically unable to comprehend (this is obviously a feature, as if the Peasant could comprehend high finance it might resent the system or, worse, attempt to use that knowledge to secure affluence and force itself into the more refined social circles). Suffice to say, however, that in the course of these debt-ceiling negotiations certain remarks have been made by the more agitated peasantry which have resulted in a good deal of hurt feelings on the part of the Titans of Capitalism, and it will be some time until the Titans are feeling chipper again. A written apology from the Peasant to the Titans might go a long way toward setting things aright and restoring good comity between Master and Servant.

  18. 18.

    cmorenc

    August 2, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    WHAT CRASH? The Dow is only down -91 at 12.25pm, or -0.75% of its value, the Nasdaq -21, or -0.76% of its value. Yes, so far that makes it a “down” day, but well within the range of normal fluctuations rather than any sharp swing.

    That’s not to say that the way the debt hostage crisis was resolved won’t at some point produce a crash, but it’s certainly not here yet, today.

  19. 19.

    Dennis SGMM

    August 2, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    What? The markets didn’t want austerity at any cost to the yet-to-happen recovery?

  20. 20.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    @JPL:

    The last several weeks not only cost us more in interest, it hurt our psyche.

    No shit. So let’s all jump Obama for not using his mind fu powers to prevent the wingnuts from holding the country hostage for a month. A REAL president would find a way to make republicans behave themselves, beforehand, right?

  21. 21.

    LittlePig

    August 2, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    I love the smell of the economy crashing in the morning. It smells like….FREEDOM

    /teatard

  22. 22.

    TooManyJens

    August 2, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    @sixthdoctor:

    Maybe a cathartic Wisconsin ActBlue bleg today?

    In Wisconsin news: Dems’ polling has them leading in three districts, tied in the other three. WI Democrats have contacted over 1.4 million voters using more than 10,000 volunteers.

  23. 23.

    fasteddie9318

    August 2, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I’m confused; is Derf a firebagger troll or a teatard troll? Or is it more of a catch-as-catch-can kind of thing?

  24. 24.

    henrythefifth

    August 2, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Don’t worry, capitalist utopia is right around the corner.

  25. 25.

    John Cole

    August 2, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Oh fer fucks sake. I’m not looking at today alone:

    U.S. stocks declined on
    Tuesday, putting the S&P 500 on track for its longest down
    streak since October 2008, on worries over the United States’
    debt and economic outlook.

    Investors feared a possible downgrade of U.S. credit
    despite passage by the U.S. House of Representatives Monday of
    a last-minute compromise to raise the U.S. debt ceiling and
    avert a U.S. debt default. For details, see [ID:nN1E77107D]
    [ID:nUSBUDGET]

    The deliberations have taken a toll on stocks. The S&P 500
    is down for its seventh straight session. Last week, the market
    suffered its worst week in a year.

    Even with the deal, analysts say it is possible the United
    States top credit rating could still be cut.

    Do you people live in a god damned cave?

  26. 26.

    LittlePig

    August 2, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    capitalist utopia is right around the corner.

    No, silly, Somalia is in Africa.

  27. 27.

    maye

    August 2, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Off topic:

    My kid is required to get a T-dap booster shot before school starts in sept. (Not sure if this is a state or country mandate).

    He got the shot at his primary care physician’s office. She billed my insurance company $227. The company paid $143. As a network provider, she accepted the adjustment. I paid $20.

    The cost of the same shot at the local private walk-in clinic: $90

    The cost of the same shot at Walgreens: $65

    The cost of the same shot at the free public clinic: $10

    Nothing wrong with this healthcare system. No sir.

  28. 28.

    homerhk

    August 2, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    God, this is all so depressing. I am an Obama man, love him, love his attitude to his job, his smarts, his general calm demeanour. And yet, I have to ask, what the fuck is he doing? He really does seem to be adrift right now. Whether he is not, the worst is that that is the perception (and I think it’s time for us O-bots to acknowledge that it’s not just the firebaggers who think so). I admit, I want him to fight, to show some heart.

    About three months ago I made a bit with a US colleague of mine (hardcore republican) that Obama would win re-election with more of a majority in percentage terms then in 2008. No way that’s happening now, unless something truly amazing happens in the next 12-15 months. I’m not an economist but know that practically he can’t be blamed totally for the lack of recovery but that’s just tough luck for him in 2012.

    I think, personally, that he took all that celebrity shit during the election to heart and wanted to show that rather than just being a showboat, he was a serious man committed to do serious things. I think that’s great and he’d done some wonderful things, but he should be a little bit of a showboat too, no?

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    August 2, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    @John Cole:

    Some days I wonder if a cave would be preferable.

  30. 30.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    fasteddie,

    The important thing is that you have shown your support and have helped to keep me motivated to post even more. That is what really counts.

    Always happy to get luv from all my groupies.

  31. 31.

    liberal

    August 2, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    @General Stuck:

    A REAL president would find a way to make republicans behave themselves, beforehand, right?

    Yawn.

    A real president would have:
    (i) refused to accept anything other than a clean bill (note to OzoneMan, Mem-whats-her-face, and others: this means sticking to it throughout, not for a short period of time);
    (ii) pointing out repeatedly to the country that the Republicans were holdling the economy hostage;
    (iii) gone with the completely legal and constitutional platinum coin seignorage option if the thugs didn’t blink.

  32. 32.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    @John Cole:

    Do you people live in a god damned cave?

    As a matter of fact, yes, I do. They call it an apartment, but all the bugs, spiders and lizards that claim domain, also to, gives it a cave like experience. And in the fall, small mammals arrive to keep themselves warm for the winter.

  33. 33.

    Constance

    August 2, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Oh how tiresome is a derf?

  34. 34.

    liberal

    August 2, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    @homerhk:

    I am an Obama man, love him, love his attitude to his job, his smarts, his general calm demeanour. And yet, I have to ask, what the fuck is he doing?

    Well, at least one erstwhile O-bot can look reality in the eye.

  35. 35.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    @LittlePig: Down 100 points is crashing?

    Rrrright. Just bought more shares of some of my favorite stocks today. As you can see I am also terrified of these boogeymen under the bed you speak of.

  36. 36.

    Jewish Steel

    August 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    @fasteddie9318: Derf is a Canadian who finds Canadian politics dull and posts here when the hockey blogs are slow.

  37. 37.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    @liberal:

    You do know I regard you as full of shit, don’t you liberal. Your postings can at times provide a sardonic chuckle at the pure absurdity of how your mind works. But other than that. BIG YAWN, back atcha.

  38. 38.

    liberal

    August 2, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    @TooManyJens:
    OTOH some WI dems apparently think the federal Dem cave could hurt them.

    There’s also something about one of the Dem recall campaign HQs being burnt to the ground.

  39. 39.

    homerhk

    August 2, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    liberal, I am not an erstwhile O-bot; a current and fully paid up member. But I can make criticisms no? I can express my bewilderment can’t I? without it being seen as a wholesale repudiation of the man?

  40. 40.

    TooManyJens

    August 2, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    @liberal:

    OTOH some WI dems apparently think the federal Dem cave could hurt them.

    Eh, one guy interviewed by TPM, which likes catchy headlines. We’ll see.

  41. 41.

    liberal

    August 2, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    @General Stuck:

    You do know I regard you as full of shit, don’t you liberal.

    Yawn. I’m supposed to regard that as some kind of insult? Coming from you, that’s a complement.

    Noticed that you didn’t post anything of substance in your reply, as usual.

  42. 42.

    WaterGirl

    August 2, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    I’ll second the request for a Wisconsin ActBlue bleg. Especially since the republicans are lying and cheating in the election again.

    Edit: I am becoming exceedingly cranky as I sit here waiting for the president to speak. Even with MSNBC paused waiting for the speech, I hear snippets of chuck todd, etc as I fast forward to see if Obama is speaking yet.

  43. 43.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    On the bright side. This is yet more fodder for me to beat Captain Doom John Galt Cole over the head with daily. When the Dow gains back these losses in the next week/day/hour/minute it will do EXACTLY that. Over and over again.

    Make no mistake. That is EXACTLY what will happen. There is no argument that will shows just how dumb the truly naive are than to use daily gyrations to make some point. Or perhaps to try use it to re-enforce your world view.

  44. 44.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    On the bright side. This is yet more fodder for me to beat Captain Doom John Galt Cole over the head with daily. When the Dow gains back these losses in the next week/day/hour/minute I will do EXACTLY that. Over and over again.

    Make no mistake. That is EXACTLY what will happen. There is no argument that will shows just how dumb the truly naive are than to use daily gyrations to make some point. Or perhaps to try use it to re-enforce your world view.

  45. 45.

    boss bitch

    August 2, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Do you people live in a god damned cave?

    Yes, most of you readers do live in a cave. Just read the comments on any political topic.

  46. 46.

    dr. bloor

    August 2, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Some days I wonder if a cave would be preferable.

    There’s a very good chance we’ll be testing that hypothesis by the time the Khmer Teahadists are finished with the economy.

  47. 47.

    TooManyJens

    August 2, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    If there’s a Wisconsin bleg, could you also put up the URL for the Wisconsin Democrats virtual phone bank?

  48. 48.

    Loneoak

    August 2, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    I don’t find Derf tiresome at all. Their proclamations of love for pie kinda brightens my day.

  49. 49.

    liberal

    August 2, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    @homerhk:

    But I can make criticisms no? I can express my bewilderment can’t I? without it being seen as a wholesale repudiation of the man?

    No, actually, as far as most of the other O-bots here are concerned, you can’t.

    “rootless_e” used to post here. He’s had a few dust-ups with Glenn Greenwald re Obama. In one, GG (regardless of whatever else you think of him) made a telling point which I don’t think r.e. could respond to: “You have X thousand tweets. Can you point to a single one which is critical of Obama?”

  50. 50.

    boss bitch

    August 2, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    BREAKING: Crisis Averted – 74-26

  51. 51.

    batgirl

    August 2, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    @cleek: It isn’t just MSNBC. I’ve been seeing a lot of articles from mainstream news about how most economics think austerity measures are a really crappy and dangerous move right now. I just don’t get it. Though Reuters has an especially disgusting “both sides are at fault” (the Teahadists and the Dems wanting to protect SS, Medicare) for the crappy deal article that I started to read, stopped and wanted to burn.

    The press just flat out sucks.

  52. 52.

    liberal

    August 2, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    @TooManyJens:
    Here’s hoping you’re right.

  53. 53.

    Joseph Nobles

    August 2, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Extra Congress will be the best branch of the legislature ever.

  54. 54.

    Clever moniker

    August 2, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    @liberal (38):

    Adding to that, I think congressional and state dems will be running basically orthogonal campaigns to Obama, which won’t help either.

  55. 55.

    TooManyJens

    August 2, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    @liberal:

    In one, GG (regardless of whatever else you think of him) made a telling point which I don’t think r.e. could respond to: “You have X thousand tweets. Can you point to a single one which is critical of Obama?”

    In fairness, who could respond to that? Trying to find old tweets sucks.

  56. 56.

    agrippa

    August 2, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    @liberal:

    Boring.

  57. 57.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    I think it is okay to be disappointed at the final outcome of what crazy wingnuts brought to our doorstep, and also to be sad at the fact all this happened at all, when it never has with a debt ceiling increase. But Obama not fighting? Where have you all been living, in a cave. The dude was on teevee repeatedly accusing the wingers of holding the economy hostage, with something as leverage that world catastrophe if not satisfied. And also to, for god’s sake express your disappointment that Obama did give them something for this bullshit, but not the ranch they wanted.

    But going scorched earth “The President Surrendered” is like feeding manna from heaven to the right wing. They love it when dems consume their own, as we love it when they consume their own

    How about keeping the bulk of the rage and disappointed pointed to where it belongs, The Goddam Republicans.

    I probly need a break from blogging this shit, before going supernova myself.

  58. 58.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Oh btw. Need I remind you all that I had always said that there is no way the US would default. That there was going to be a deal guaranteed.

    So where are all the “we are going to default for sure” chicken littles. With Captain Doom John Galt Cole at the head of the line? Where did you all go? Are you the ones selling your 401k’s (again) so that vultures like me can swoop in and get some bargains (like I am doing today) again? Thanks for being lemmings. I know I speak for informed investors everywhere when I say, thank you for being morAns.

  59. 59.

    Bulworth

    August 2, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    @cleek: What’s worse is some of our media villagers are talking about jobs, too. Like anyone cares about that.

  60. 60.

    agrippa

    August 2, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    @liberal:

    Again, boring.

  61. 61.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 2, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    @boss bitch: Hmn… “I think we’re gonna need a bigger bus.”

  62. 62.

    JPL

    August 2, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    @Stooleo: Thanks, I already forwarded that to a few friends. Yesterdays Washington Post had an article about his participation in the rally/march.
    Sorry, I did not save the link.

  63. 63.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    August 2, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    @homerhk: Personally, I don’t need the showboat, especially when his quiet work yields something like this.

  64. 64.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    August 2, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    @General Stuck: Yeah, but, but, but—BULLY PULPIT! UNITARY EXECUTIVE! PIGS AND DONKEYS! ALICE COOPER, BABY!

  65. 65.

    Loneoak

    August 2, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    @General Stuck:

    How about keeping the bulk of the rage and disappointed pointed to where it belongs, The Goddam Republicans.

    A-fucking-men to that.

  66. 66.

    homerhk

    August 2, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    General, I assume your post was directed at me and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. The Prez did get on teevee loads of times and yes he fought. But I guess what I would have really liked was the “no bullshit” speech that Fallows talked about (without I guess the 14th amendment stuff which so would not have worked). I admit that it may not have achieved anything apart from making me feel a little better but a little selfishness comes to us all from time to time. I am not about to consume our own; my main concern stems from the fact that although I think Obama got a pretty good deal in the circumstances, the economy just will not be improved by this deal (probably worsened) and then Obama losing becomes that much more likely. While I am scared to think about what will happen under Prez Romney, my main issue with Obama losing is that he won’t get another 4 years fully to implement his long term goals. Boy, what I would give for an Obama presidency during a time of economic positivity.

  67. 67.

    freelancer

    August 2, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    @fasteddie9318:

    I’m confused; is Derf a firebagger troll or a teatard troll? Or is it more of a catch-as-catch-can kind of thing?

    Derp is so dumb he can’t even spell his name right. Way to derp, Derp!

  68. 68.

    Dennis SGMM

    August 2, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    @General Stuck:

    The time has come. You’re among the best when it comes to elucidating process. No argument from me on that account.

    Your newly converted zeal tends to trample all over what I see as an insightful mind. You don’t have anything for which to make up.

  69. 69.

    boss bitch

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Oh please don’t send me to that God awful place. One person used a rape analogy. Ugh.

  70. 70.

    aisce

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    i can’t help but notice derf stopped trying to pimp the macroeconomy as a whole, and is now talking exclusively about profitable trading opportunities. hmm. how ’bout that.

    though fyi, it’s true, the markets are hardly “crashing.”

  71. 71.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @Loneoak: And yet the same people (often using different handles) still show their luv for me. I think their pie filters are broken.

    So threaten to add me to your filter. It definitely makes me quake in my boots. Yup, you betcha!

  72. 72.

    cleek

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @fasteddie9318:
    Derf is a pie lover.

  73. 73.

    TooManyJens

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @homerhk:

    Boy, what I would give for an Obama presidency during a time of economic positivity.

    Same here. And as long as he’s President, the Republicans are going to do everything in their power to prevent economic improvement. I could weep.

  74. 74.

    JPL

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Since there is not a candidate running capable of reining in the teabaggers, I am going to work towards getting better representatives. Boehner sold all moderate repubs down the river when he supported the teabaggers demands and he needs to be replaced. I seem to remember the last leader of the House was pretty darn good.

  75. 75.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @liberal:

    Noticed that you didn’t post anything of substance in your reply, as usual.

    That’s because you’re not really a liberal, that would love nothing better than Obama to fail, and democrats to fail, and are just another flavor of nihilist than the tea tards.

    Nothing you have ever said here, not one fucking word, has been said in good faith. Unless you consider a yearning for anarchy and a chance for us to go for real communist.

  76. 76.

    MBunge

    August 2, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    @liberal: In one, GG (regardless of whatever else you think of him) made a telling point

    It’s only as telling as pointing out how few times The Last Honest Man has EVER had anything even vaguely positive to say about Obama, no matter what the circumstances.

    Mike

  77. 77.

    Loneoak

    August 2, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    The whole notion of ‘invoking the 14th Amendment’ like its some magic wand to make teatards go away is ridiculous. The 14th Amendment requires honoring the US debts, and that’s it. So Obama would be required to pay the debt-holders before he paid Social Security or military pay checks. That’s it. That’s all it means.

    I’m sure that would have been a winning strategy and Rethuglicans would have instantly become reasonable.

  78. 78.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    @cleek: Thank you for your show of support. As always, I luv all you groupies right back. Mooouah (big kiss).

  79. 79.

    Ash Can

    August 2, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    @Chukwu: neither good for neither the public or nor our Galtian superheroes.

    /even worse grammar pedant

  80. 80.

    Nied

    August 2, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    The solution is obvious, whether you’re a Liberal angry that the deal cut too much, or a Teabagger mad that it didn’t cut enough: Elect more Republicans! It’ll make everything better!

  81. 81.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Your newly converted zeal tends to trample all over what I see as an insightful mind. You don’t have anything for which to make up.

    WTF? “newly converted zeal”? What the hell you talking about, or are you smoking crack.

  82. 82.

    Poopyman

    August 2, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    @John Cole: And Europe isn’t helping. Italy looks to be the next domino to fall.

  83. 83.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    @cleek: msnbc.com has the unfortunate habit of making big-font-size headlines out of opinion articles. Those of us who are used to the rhythms of old-school journalism can suffer a lot of cognitive dissonance until you catch on to the new lack of rules.

  84. 84.

    joeyess

    August 2, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    @John Cole:

    Do you people live in a god damned cave?

    Yes. Yes they do.

    Also, too…. they don’t want to be accused of being a firebagger.

    Personally, I think this is ridiculous. A capitulation is a capitulation. If you give up everything to merely get a deal, you have capitulated to hostage taking. I’m not afraid to call it what it is. It pains me to do so, but you can’t hide your head in a hole, fer fucks sake.

  85. 85.

    boss bitch

    August 2, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    @General Stuck:

    How about keeping the bulk of the rage and disappointed pointed to where it belongs, The Goddam Republicans.

    Actually they are. They have tagged Obama as a stealth Republican and the vast majority of Dems in Congress as DINOS. So in their minds they are fighting Republicans.

  86. 86.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    @liberal:

    A real president would have…

    But the point is that he is the only real president we’ve got now, and he didn’t do all the peachy stuff you might have wanted. So, now what?

    I also note that the Democrats in Congress made a little noise, but ultimately fell in line with this stupid deal (and I agree with you on your point (i), but not (ii) and (iii).) The entire Democratic Party appears to be broken, at least on the federal level.

  87. 87.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    @Jewish Steel: I’m a Canadian? Really? Some family members would probably be quite surprised to hear that. I think I better tell them. Thanks for keeping me InfRomed!

  88. 88.

    Poopyman

    August 2, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    @Poopyman: Sorry. Italy would be the next big *big* domino to fall. Cyprus apparently holds a lot of Greek debt and will probably need bailing out real soon now.

    Also, is “Greek Futures” an oxymoron?

  89. 89.

    Tom Q

    August 2, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    @homerhk: If you want to feel better, take a look at Lichtman’s Keys to the Presidency system, which has Obama an overwhelming favorite for re-election. And bear in mind, this system predicted Reagan’s re-election in ’82, at the depths of the recession, and Bush I’s win in ’88, at a time when he trailed Dukakis by that famous 17 points.

    I wouldn’t bail on your earlier prediction yet. I still see Obama winning by a solid margin. Don’t get caught up in the emotional contagion of the moment.

  90. 90.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    August 2, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    @TooManyJens: Since X == 0, I really can’t.

  91. 91.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    @homerhk:

    I assume your post was directed at me and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying

    You assume wrong, I have no problem with your comment, that should be a template for responsible critique of a dem president. I am talking about the scorched earth crowd, that comes out of the woodwork to promote democrats going to war with themselves, and to bash a president they don’t like being president.

  92. 92.

    Cris (without an H)

    August 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    @fasteddie9318: I’m confused; is Derf a firebagger troll or a teatard troll?

    I’m pretty sure Derf is actually John Cole’s alter ego, eternally nagging at him as an overblown devil’s advocate. And John doesn’t even know it; it’s kind of a Tyler Durden thing.

  93. 93.

    piratedan

    August 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    @General Stuck: unfortunately Obama couldn’t give the teabaggers shiny new uniforms and inform them to march on and then annex the Sudentenland

  94. 94.

    RalfW

    August 2, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    If the Dow drops below 11,900 that will be a pretty bad signal – there “should” be a resistance level around the 3 month low. But we could blow through it.

    And it’s not as if the fucking debt deal ransom is the only cause of the drop. Europe is a mess, with Greece and Spain in major trouble. Revised figures for the last few qtrs are awful.

    Good thing the Teahadists succeeded in making it politically impossible for the federal gubmit to do anything stimulative.

    In a few months when it is painfully obvious that not extending unemployment is going to lead to 30’s style bread lines, the twelve cowardly lions of Congress will tell us there’s nothing that can be done.

    Heck, I bet a bit of hot war get’s going just in time to block any possible cuts to defense.

    We’re gonna rock this place like it’s 1937! Whoo hoo! Galtian paradise!!

  95. 95.

    Joseph Nobles

    August 2, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Press release from the Romney campaign: Mitt is gassing up the car and putting the debt deal in a pet carrier.

  96. 96.

    homerhk

    August 2, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    General, ok then I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick. Tom Q, thanks for the encouragement.

  97. 97.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Well, it should help that Obama’s currently in the Rose Garden putting lipstick on the pig and promising more austerity in the future.

  98. 98.

    Dennis SGMM

    August 2, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    @General Stuck:
    Nope, never smoked it. IIRC you’re a retired Tennessee revenuer who clapped his flippers for Reagan.

  99. 99.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 2, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    @boss bitch: “Both sides do it” isn’t automatically a cheap journalistic cop-out. I have some sympathy with the DemocraticUnderground.com crowd. I mean, what use is it having a party if you can’t read people out of it? People don’t build tree-houses because they work qua house, they build them because they can pull up the ladder. These humans, latitudinariansm isn’t what the species default to.

  100. 100.

    PeakVT

    August 2, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Crashing or gyrating? It’s fallen a bit from the 50-day moving average high, but it’s still at the 200-day moving average high. /shrugs

  101. 101.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    @maye:

    Nothing wrong with this healthcare medical insurance system. No sir.

    One of these days people are going to catch on to the fact that insurance increases costs because it creates the perception that “somebody else” is paying for it, so there’s never any motivation to drive down what the market will bear.

  102. 102.

    Suffern ACE

    August 2, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    @boss bitch:

    They have tagged Obama as a stealth Republican and the vast majority of Dems in Congress as DINOS. So in their minds they are fighting Republicans.

    And since one of their major complaints is that dems don’t fight back, they’re picking the side in the fight that they figure won’t hit them back. Yeah, they really want to upset the schoolyard pecking order.

  103. 103.

    celticdragonchick

    August 2, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    @General Stuck:

    I probly need a break from blogging this shit, before going supernova myself.

    Please, by all means, do continue. It might be entertaining. Your insult laden, content free screeds are always illuminating.

  104. 104.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 2, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Good thing the Teahadists succeeded in making it politically impossible for the federal gubmit to do anything stimulative.

    Not impossible, just difficult. We could, for example, persuade Chancellor Merkel to invade Poland. Sure, it’s a heavy lift….

  105. 105.

    EconWatcher

    August 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Can we dump this talk of the constitutional option? Raising the debt ceiling was politically unpopular, and if Obama had used an unpredecented and constitutionally questionable maneuver to do it all by himself, he would have been eaten alive. I mean, are you kidding me?

  106. 106.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    @PeakVT:

    Crashing or gyrating?

    Undulating relaxingly.

  107. 107.

    jman

    August 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    @homerhk: Sorry, you can’t make criticisms around here unless you want to be called a firebagger.

  108. 108.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    IIRC you’re a retired Tennessee revenuer who clapped his flippers for Reagan.

    Then maybe you are simply insane, that is clearly evident from this pure whack job comment, none of which is remotely true. What a weird fucking thing to say. jeebus man, get some help.

  109. 109.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    August 2, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    I want a Matt Damon T-shirt with some quotes from that interview (thank you Stooleo at #16) — “You think job insecurity is why I work hard?” and “The problem now is this MBA mentality.” Go Matt. Congrats to your mom on raising a fine son.

  110. 110.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    @celticdragonchick:

    Pathetic coming from an LGF minion during that blogs dark racist years. You have nothing to offer here but ratfuckery.

  111. 111.

    MBunge

    August 2, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    @joeyess: A capitulation is a capitulation.

    And the devil is in the details. You know, like how a third of the $1 trillion in initial cuts comes from the Pentagon and NONE comes from entitlements or how the initial cuts only amount to $7 billion this year. But that doesn’t matter because Obama didn’t whip it out and win the latest dick measuring contest.

    Mike

  112. 112.

    Derf

    August 2, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    @Cris (without an H): By suggesting I am Cole you really have managed to insult me. Touche!

  113. 113.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    @liberal: A real president would have:
    (i) refused to accept anything other than a clean bill (note to OzoneMan, Mem-whats-her-face, and others: this means sticking to it throughout, not for a short period of time); done what he did
    (ii) pointing out repeatedly to the country that the Republicans were holdling the economy hostage; done what he did
    (iii) gone with the completely legal and constitutional platinum coin seignorage option if the thugs didn’t blink. do some fantasy thing I hear somebody suggest even though I haven’t the slightest clue what its all about

  114. 114.

    geisha gurl

    August 2, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I’m enjoying all the hurt fee-fees in the comment section for Joe Nocera’s column today that calls the teahadists terrorists.

    http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/opinion/the-tea-partys-war-on-america.html?sort=oldest&offset=4

    gee, they really made their last stand like bull run.

    what did D.Boon say? “Custer died with shit in his pants…”

  115. 115.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    @slag:

    it should help that Obama’s currently in the Rose Garden putting lipstick on the pig and promising more austerity in the future.

    you must be watching something different.

  116. 116.

    Dennis SGMM

    August 2, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    @General Stuck:
    It’s perfectly okay for you to recreate a better self on the internet. I wish you good luck with that and hope that your recreated self follows up.

  117. 117.

    Montysano

    August 2, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    @maye:

    He got the shot at his primary care physician’s office. She billed my insurance company $227. The company paid $143. As a network provider, she accepted the adjustment. I paid $20.
    ..
    The cost of the same shot at the local private walk-in clinic: $90
    ..
    The cost of the same shot at Walgreens: $65
    ..
    The cost of the same shot at the free public clinic: $10
    ..
    Nothing wrong with this healthcare system. No sir.

    I read and occasionally comment at a rightwing/libertarian forum, where one of their favorite appellations is the “FSA”, aka the Free Shit Army, otherwise known as Young Bucks Eating T-Bones. When I suggested that the healthcare and military industries were nothing but different brigades of the FSA, it was all flames and butthurt.

  118. 118.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    @Cheryl from Maryland: Seriously. Science has demonstrated time and again that money is not a good motivating tool in most instances. Almost every study that’s been done on the issue has come to a similar conclusion. If anything, it works best as a de-motivator (esp in cases of severe income inequality). And anyone who’s hired someone (outside of the financial “services” arena) knows that the last person you want to hire is someone whose main motivation is money. At this point, believing money to be a good motivator is nothing more than letting faith overcome Reason. Not that libertarians would ever do such a thing.

  119. 119.

    dollared

    August 2, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    @Montysano: Send us a link. I’m sure many of us would be happy to annoy people other than General Stuck, if given a chance.

  120. 120.

    fasteddie9318

    August 2, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    I don’t even know why Obama gets out of bed in the morning. It’s not like he has any ability to do anything.

  121. 121.

    evinfuilt

    August 2, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    “A deal that saves the US economy? No — it may have made it worse” at the top of MSNBC.com. they wouldn’t even hint that such a thing was possible, before yesterday. but now they’re not taking sides, they’re only doing post-mortem analysis.

    @cleek:

    What do you expect from the media. They’re stenographers, it’s much more cost effective. Doing research costs money (and then of course actually talking about facts may taint they’re almighty impartiality.) Our modern media is all about the horse race, not about the data that matters.

  122. 122.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    @OzoneR: Nope. That’s exactly how that press conference started out. Rewind the tape.

  123. 123.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    It’s perfectly okay for you to recreate a better self on the internet. I wish you good luck with that and hope that your recreated self follows up.

    I’m the same as I always been. This must be from the Reagan reference calling me a republican. Is that where you firebagging morons are going with now, supporters of Obama , or Obots, are really republicans in disguise, as is Obama? I can’t help but laugh out loud about that, if that is what you are claiming here. And sigh as the inmates take over the asylum.

    Let’s all hold hands and jump jaws together.

  124. 124.

    Jewish Steel

    August 2, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    @Derf: You admitted as much after Cole outed you, imbécile.

  125. 125.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    But going scorched earth “The President Surrendered” is like feeding manna from heaven to the right wing. They love it when dems consume their own, as we love it when they consume their own

    But the president and the Congressional Democrats did surrender. Facts are facts. You can try to put a cheerful face on it, but it doesn’t change things.

    How about keeping the bulk of the rage and disappointed pointed to where it belongs, The Goddam Republicans.

    Other posters and people I know are angered by Boehner’s gloating, but are also deeply disheartened by this compromise, some (like Chuck in another thread) to the point of giving up. It is not enough to talk to these people, many of whom have worked hard for liberal causes for decades, about continuing to be either angry or afraid.

    The sad thing is (and this may be temporary) but the Democrats’ capitulation has severely undermined the Democrats. The weak sauce that is being offered, Democrats must win elections even if they can’t govern for shit, is not working for a lot of people anymore.

    Meanwhile, the Republicans continue to press every advantage they can, and have even found a way to partly soothe their lunatic fringe in the Tea Party.

    Simply raging against the GOP is not an effective counter strategy.

  126. 126.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    @General Stuck:

    I’m the same as I always been.

    I’m under the impression Dennis was making a suggestion for your future, not an accusation.

  127. 127.

    boss bitch

    August 2, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    it should help that Obama’s currently in the Rose Garden putting lipstick on the pig and promising more austerity in the future.

    He was talking about jobs and investing and spurring demand by putting money in people’s pockets who will then go buy stuff and cause businesses to hire. But his first line was about living within our means so clearly he’s embracing austerity.

  128. 128.

    celticdragonchick

    August 2, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    @General Stuck:

    Pathetic coming from an LGF minion during that blogs dark racist years. You have nothing to offer here but ratfuckery.

    Bravo! Your capacity for truculence and nonsensical enmity is simply breathtaking!

    By the by, my account at LGF started on October 2, 2009, which is well after Charles began his attacks on Gellar and the neo fascist anti-ihadists. I have numerous pages as well as well rated comments posted at LGF attacking racism in the GOP, and these are readily found by anybody who wishes. When making allegations of racist leanings, one should be sure of the facts, no?

    Please carry on. :) You know you always make my day.

  129. 129.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    but are also deeply disheartened by this compromise, some (like Chuck in another thread) to the point of giving up.

    Then they’re too weak to ever make it in politics anyway.

    Democrats must win elections even if they can’t govern for shit, is not working for a lot of people anymore.

    Then they’re useless, because if they think 2009-2010 was “can’t govern for shit,” then they’ll never be happy with politics and are just useless.

    Meanwhile, the Republicans continue to press every advantage they can, and have even found a way to partly soothe their lunatic fringe in the Tea Party.

    After decades of dealing with RINOs and NOT FUCKING QUITTING DESPITE IT.

  130. 130.

    Tonal Crow

    August 2, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Down 1.5% is not “crashing”, but Republicans are still terrorists.

  131. 131.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    @boss bitch: You should rewind the tape too. It wasn’t his “first line”. And it wasn’t limited to living within our means.

  132. 132.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    @celticdragonchick:

    Dude, you once said you were a regular commenter on LGF during the Bush years on this blog. Did you not?.

    If not, then apologies, as I said that from memory of something you said and were open about it. you’re still an erratic hack, imo. But you seem to be thinking the same of me.

  133. 133.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    @slag:

    You should rewind the tape too. It wasn’t his “first line”. And it wasn’t limited to living within our means.

    If this isn’t proof that the bully pulpit is pointless cause the “base” will hear whatever it wants to hear, I don’t think what is

  134. 134.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    @slag:

    In a Rose Garden statement, Obama made clear he expects tax reform to emerge from deliberations around a new joint bipartisan committee to be established by the legislation, and that a “balanced approach” in which the wealthier pay more taxes is needed for more deficit reduction.

    using the guise of deficit reduction to sell tax hikes on the rich. the bastard!!!

  135. 135.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    @different church-lady:

    Don’t think so DcL, looks like to me he’s parroting fuckhead and his purity brigades that sniff out republican traitors on this blog, in dem, or obot disguise, or something like that.

  136. 136.

    Elie

    August 2, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    @Brachiator:

    We have Medicare, We did not lose Social Security, We still have HCR and many of the program cuts go back to being haggled in the Congress. The Congress did its job and the Executive didn’t have to rupture the constitution and go into that whole impeachment instability arena.

    We won. Ugly, yeah. We won. Given what could have happened, whew…

  137. 137.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    @different church-lady:

    @Dennis SGMM:

    IIRC you’re a retired Tennessee revenuer who clapped his flippers for Reagan.

  138. 138.

    Dennis SGMM

    August 2, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    @General Stuck:
    Firebagging morons. I’ve worked Dem GOTV efforts for a bit more than four decades, rain or shine, in CA-26. If that makes me a firebagging moron in the eyes of a bullshiter then so be it.
    My attempt to recognize your abilities while encouraging the better angels of your nature failed. That’s on me for believing that humanity is perfectible.
    You’re an asshole. You were an asshole when you were a Republican and you’re an asshole now that you’ve chosen to be a Democrat.

  139. 139.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    @General Stuck: now that I’ve chased the… uh… “discussion” back a bit further, I think you’re right. That thread got mixed up in my head with your “break from blogging” comment and I incorrectly thought he was making a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that you come up with a new on-line persona.

  140. 140.

    dww44

    August 2, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    @JPL:

    You got that right and the doom and gloom is evident everywhere. Another thing to chalk up to the idiots on the right and those who think that reinforcing their memes, i.e. the enablers, is the right path to follow.

  141. 141.

    chopper

    August 2, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    (iii) gone with the completely legal and constitutional platinum coin seignorage option if the thugs didn’t blink.

    yes, monetize the debt. a great option with no unfortunate side effects. wait, what? oh, never mind.

  142. 142.

    celticdragonchick

    August 2, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    @General Stuck:

    LGM, not LGF.

    Lawyers, Guns and Money. I believe you made a disparaging comment about my time there, as you are often wont.

    I have no idea if you are an “erratic hack” or not. I think you have a temper problem and that you have difficulty recognizing nuanced arguments from “firebaggers”. I still support this President and I think some people are giving up on him too soon, but in the end, the President will have only himself to blame if he alienates so much of his base that he cannot win re-election. That is the price you pay for being a politician. Complaining about your own supporters is useless and self destructive.

    Also, “dude” is not a correct appellation for me.

  143. 143.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    @celticdragonchick: Good comment. But…

    Complaining about your own supporters is useless and self destructive.

    …in the current environment one needs to ask at what point someone stops qualifying as a supporter.

  144. 144.

    celticdragonchick

    August 2, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    @different church-lady:

    Around the time they start calling for a primary challenge, I guess. Really bad idea, imo.

  145. 145.

    Bender

    August 2, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Apparently austerity…

    Austerity? You Drama Queens are really in full bloom today!

    Ball-Juicers are delusional. You’re living in a fantasy world where you whine like six-year-olds if you don’t get exactly what you want. You are what you think the Tea Partiers are.

    Possibly cutting 3-5% from our expected, baselined budget, mostly in Defense, with increased spending and increased deficits every year until time immemorial? Austerity?

    Thank God you guys weren’t alive in the 1940s! You’d have gone down as “The Whiniest Generation.”

  146. 146.

    celticdragonchick

    August 2, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    bbl. Lunch time.

  147. 147.

    Bender

    August 2, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Obamanomics at the podium: “You see, the reason people weren’t spending and investing six months ago was that they were worried about something that happened the past month.”

    Media: “Yeah, that sounds about right! TINGLE!”

  148. 148.

    Elie

    August 2, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    @celticdragonchick:

    Yeah, we’ll show HIM, right? That’s the spirit! The alternative to Obama is something that doesnt make you lay awake at night, so you are right. We’ll show HIM, allright.
    Hey, pass the cheetos. Revolution, revolution, revolution!!! I want it now,now,now!

  149. 149.

    chopper

    August 2, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    the Dow ain’t crashin’, but it ain’t pretty. manufacturing data is horrid and consumer spending is in the shitter. the latter makes up a majority of our economy. god help us if they downgrade our credit rating.

    oh yeah, GDP grew by .8 percent this year, likely to be downgraded later, despite the fed having continued to buy bonds by the shit-ton just to pump dollars into the economy.

    so yeah, I get cole’s cynicism.

  150. 150.

    Turgidson

    August 2, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    I hear snippets of chuck todd

    I remember when I actually looked forward to seeing Chuck Todd on MSNBC during the 2008 election. He was no Nate Silver, but he at least tried to crunch the numbers and do real analysis.

    Now he’s one of the worst inside-baseball assholes of the bunch.

  151. 151.

    ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

    August 2, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    @John Cole: We will soon!

    I blame everyone Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher, who forced Obama to adopt Republican austerity framing and policies.
    ~

  152. 152.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    @Elie: Naw, you’re missing it: whoever wins their fantasy primary is the guy they should have waited to marry, instead of this piece of shit they’re stuck with now.

    In other words, they’re quite keen to repeat the exact same mistake they made with Obama: they elevated him to the fantasy candidate they needed him to be and he turned out to be human. Now they crave a new fantasy to fall in love with because they can’t deal with how shitty and un-magical reality is.

  153. 153.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    @OzoneR:

    If this isn’t proof that the bully pulpit is pointless cause the “base” will hear whatever it wants to hear, I don’t think what is

    I can only assume you’re referring to yourself here.

  154. 154.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    @OzoneR:

    using the guise of deficit reduction to sell tax hikes on the rich.

    Hahahahaha! Where have I heard this idea before?

  155. 155.

    Elie

    August 2, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    @different church-lady:

    Yeah. I be sad. No way to do grassroots change. That is what we need and have always needed. Targeting the wrong part of the system to do what we want… need to influence the other end.

    Still, I think we will be ok. Reports of our early demise are greatly exagerrated.

  156. 156.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    @slag:

    I can only assume you’re referring to yourself here.

    assume again oh wise one.

  157. 157.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    I think you have a temper problem and that you have difficulty recognizing nuanced arguments from “firebaggers”

    LMAO. I didn’t see that one coming. And you are correct of course, depending on how you define “nuanced” . Temper problem? Some, and at times more than that while in the blog world. Reams and reams of unabashed bullshit still can get under my skin at times, but it is fairly thick these days.

    offline, I am sweet as a peach. Buy those tickets and run away if you want. The rest of us will get by.

    Your comments on the pol effects of the debt ceiling deal is completely full of it though, but you aren’t alone.

  158. 158.

    Felanius Kootea

    August 2, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    @Cheryl from Maryland: I loved the “maybe you’re a shitty cameraman” rejoinder to ten percent of people suck at everything.

  159. 159.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    @slag:

    Hahahahaha! Where have I heard this idea before?

    the last time he tried to use the bully pulpit to end them and got fucked by his own party in Congress, and also liberals who sat around waiting for him to lose, so they can call it capitulation and reinforce their ugly cynicism.

  160. 160.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    @John Cole:

    Do you people live in a god damned cave?

    It’s NOT a cave. It’s a modest suburban house outside of Abbottabad.

  161. 161.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    @OzoneR:

    A real president would have: done what he did (and repeat)

    Why is this in the compromise agreement:

    White House Press Secretary Jay Carney made clear that President Obama would veto any legislation to extend high-end tax cuts if Congress does not pass a balanced deficit-reduction package by the end of 2012.

    Why is there any consideration at all for extending these dumbass tax cuts? Isn’t this pre-capitulation, even if it is an attempt at strategy?

  162. 162.

    FormerSwingVoter

    August 2, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Meh. Lots of crappy economic data being released at the same time. The poo-flinging and austerity fever certainly haven’t helped, but they’re hardly the sole culprits.

  163. 163.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    You’re an asshole. You were an asshole when you were a Republican and you’re an asshole now that you’ve chosen to be a Democrat.

    Well, yes, sometimes, and you aren’t the same? And spare me the whiny passive/aggressive nonsense that you are someone the least bit concerned about my future, when you turn around and call me a republican that I have never been, but like other liberals have in the distant past voted for repub or two. And take that smarmy purity bullshit, and cram it up your ass. Firebagging Clown.

  164. 164.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Why is there any consideration at all for extending these dumbass tax cuts? Isn’t this pre-capitulation, even if it is an attempt at strategy?

    You’re reading that wrong. A balanced deficit reduction bill would repeal them for the rich. If they’re not repealed for the rich, Obama won’t reauthorized them at all.

    this is the veto threat liberals kept clamoring about last year.

  165. 165.

    General Stuck

    August 2, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    @different church-lady:

    No problemo DCL :-)

  166. 166.

    Elie

    August 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    @General Stuck:

    And what if you had been a republican in the past? Who the eff cares what someone was in the past? Do we now have to have a DNA test to see if we are “truly” Democrats or progressives?

  167. 167.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    @OzoneR:

    the last time he tried to use the bully pulpit to end them and got fucked by his own party in Congress, and also liberals who sat around waiting for him to lose, so they can call it capitulation and reinforce their ugly cynicism.

    Wow. And here I thought the larger problem was that liberals had no meaningful structural power. Whew! Glad to find out I was wrong about that. Now you must kneel before the might of my new-found ennui, slave!

  168. 168.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    @Bender:

    Obamanomics at the podium: “You see, the reason people weren’t spending and investing six months ago was that they were worried about something that happened the past month.”

    They were worried about this, I don’t understand how tone deaf you have to be to not know the debt ceiling question has been hanging over the heads of businesses since April. Rising oil prices due to the Arab Spring and the Japan tsunami exacerbated the problem.

    I mean I’ve always ignored you, but this is really stupid. Even Republicans admitted the debt ceiling concerned businesses.

  169. 169.

    Elie

    August 2, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    I’ll tell you what, you lazy assed purity progressives better get your behinds out there and work for re-capturing the House and retaining the Senate unless you want more of this. Kneed capping Obama is a lot of fun, I know, but you aren’t part of the solution right now doing that. You are part of the PROBLEM.

    Use your widdle bwains for once and help fix stuff and not just making everything worse. Killing Obama’s Presidency will not give you what you want unless you are very very sick. (which some of you may be)

  170. 170.

    celticdragonchick

    August 2, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    @General Stuck:

    offline, I am sweet as a peach.

    LOL, meet me for drinks. First round is on me. :)

  171. 171.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    @homerhk:

    Boy, what I would give for an Obama presidency during a time of economic positivity.

    he couldn’t win in a good economy anyway

  172. 172.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    I’ll tell you what, you lazy assed purity progressives better get your behinds out there and work for re-capturing the House and retaining the Senate unless you want more of this.

    Psssst… they do want more of this. They live on it. They crave it.

  173. 173.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    @slag:

    Wow. And here I thought the larger problem was that liberals had no meaningful structural power.

    yes, that was my point, instead of building one around a message, and a leader with one, they sat around and watched him lose. Now you’re irrelevant. Sit home next year rather than rebuild, who cares, it’s your funeral.

  174. 174.

    cat48

    August 2, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Markets might be nervous b/c Standard Poor hasn’t revealed whether they will downgrade our Bond rating yet. They wanted a $4T Deficit deal or they would downgrade us in 90 days on 7/15.

    Fitch & Moody’s said today they will not downgrade now, but we are being watched & need to do more about the debt with more tax revenue or spending cuts.

  175. 175.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 2, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    @slag: This is pretty remarkable. Benen characterizes the statement as a lot of calling out the process as a waste of time and a manufactured crisis and listing, in particular, what needs to be done to jumpstart the economy.

    Quoting from over there:

    “While Washington has been absorbed in this debate about deficits, people across the country are asking what we can do to help the father looking for work. What are we going to do for the single mom who’s seen her hours cut back at the hospital? What are we going to do to make it easier for businesses to put up that ‘now hiring’ sign?
    __
    “That’s part of the reason that people are so frustrated with what’s been going on in this town. In the last few months, the economy has already had to absorb an earthquake in Japan, the economic headwinds coming from Europe, the Arab Spring and the [rise] in oil prices — all of which have been very challenging for the recovery.
    __
    “But these are things we couldn’t control. Our economy didn’t need Washington to come along with a manufactured crisis to make things worse. That was in our hands. It’s pretty likely that the uncertainty surrounding the raising of the debt ceiling — for both businesses and consumers — has been unsettling, and just one more impediment to the full recovery that we need. And it was something that we could have avoided entirely.”

    IOW, what everyone always wants Obama to say? He said it. In the right language. But it fell on deaf ears. Again. A-fucking-gain. It happens every. fucking. time.

  176. 176.

    El Cid

    August 2, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Remember, no matter what happens and the conditions of life and who appears to have done what…

    …you can fix it all by just working a lot harder at Democratic electoral organizing.

    That’s all it takes.

    If we just get out there and work hard enough and make phone calls and do fundraising and neighborhood meetings, then whatever seem to be things which massively affect how potential Democratic voters feel and are likely to turn out.

    Because that’s how it works. Right?

    Anyone who doesn’t believe that 100% is clearly a progressive purity firebagging immature hyperactive shouty hack.

  177. 177.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 2, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Can’t edit for some reason, but those three paragraphs in quotes are all from the Obama statement. Only one blockquoted because of FYWP.

  178. 178.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Because that’s how it works. Right?

    yes, that’s how it works. That how it worked in 2008 and that’s why we had our successes in 2009 and 2010.

  179. 179.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: put the paragraphs together in one giant paragraph and blockquote it

  180. 180.

    different church-lady

    August 2, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    …listing, in particular, what needs to be done to jumpstart the economy.

    Well, lookie here: the usual suspects have already declared preemptive defeat. Surprised?

  181. 181.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    @OzoneR:

    yes, that was my point, instead of building one around a message, and a leader with one, they sat around and watched him lose.

    The funny thing is that, in so very many circumstances, I’m easily persuaded by this point. The fact that you don’t admit how this point doesn’t credibly apply in this circumstance is why you are not at all persuasive when you try to make it. You see that, don’t you? When you have absolutely no capacity for variability and are completely incapable of appreciating the true origins of a specific problem, you come off as nothing more than either a shill or a rube.

  182. 182.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    @homerhk:

    I admit, I want him to fight, to show some heart.

    He did fight. He fought for weeks for a 4 trillion dollar deficit reduction package that included cuts to Medicare and Social Security. He even used the bully pulpit to implore Republicans voters to call their Congressperson and demand compromise and balance.

  183. 183.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    @El Cid:

    …you can fix it all by just working a lot harder at Democratic electoral organizing.

    Yep, three more new voter registrations and I qualify for the Get-Us-Out-Of-Afghanistan prize level.

  184. 184.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    @slag:

    The fact that you don’t admit how this point doesn’t credibly apply in this circumstance is why you are not at all persuasive when you try to make it. You see that, don’t you?

    No, I’m sorry, I don’t. But keep telling us how Obama should use the bully pulpit more often and tell us how when he does, it “doesn’t apply in this circumstance” cause it’s really quite telling.

  185. 185.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 2, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    While Washington has been absorbed in this debate about deficits, people across the country are asking what we can do to help the father looking for work. What are we going to do for the single mom who’s seen her hours cut back at the hospital? What are we going to do to make it easier for businesses to put up that ‘now hiring’ sign?
    __
    That’s part of the reason that people are so frustrated with what’s been going on in this town. In the last few months, the economy has already had to absorb an earthquake in Japan, the economic headwinds coming from Europe, the Arab Spring and the [rise] in oil prices — all of which have been very challenging for the recovery.
    __
    But these are things we couldn’t control. Our economy didn’t need Washington to come along with a manufactured crisis to make things worse. That was in our hands. It’s pretty likely that the uncertainty surrounding the raising of the debt ceiling — for both businesses and consumers — has been unsettling, and just one more impediment to the full recovery that we need. And it was something that we could have avoided entirely.

    What kind of crazy fire-breathing fire-bagging Krugthulu commentator said this? Obama. Today.

  186. 186.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Hey-I didn’t say the speech didn’t improve as it went along. I was characterizing what I was listening to at the beginning. And if you care to notice, my characterization was pretty accurate as far as it went. But don’t let your not hearing it get in the way of a good rant. Again…A-fucking-gain…

  187. 187.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    @slag:

    I was characterizing what I was listening to at the beginning.

    Yeah, I know. Don’t do that. Listen to the beginning, the middle, _and_ the end.

  188. 188.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    @OzoneR:

    But keep telling us how Obama should use the bully pulpit more often and tell us how when he does, it “doesn’t apply in this circumstance” cause it’s really quite telling.

    See…and here’s where you’re wrong again. I’ve said absolutely nothing about either a bully or a pulpit. But I guess people just hear what they want to hear. Again…A-fucking-gain…

  189. 189.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    And it was something that we could have avoided entirely.

    Huh? Has he already forgotten about his role in perpetrating this nonsense?

  190. 190.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    @Elie:

    We have Medicare, We did not lose Social Security, We still have HCR and many of the program cuts go back to being haggled in the Congress. The Congress did its job and the Executive didn’t have to rupture the constitution and go into that whole impeachment instability arena. We won. Ugly, yeah. We won. Given what could have happened, whew…

    You call this winning? And really, what could have happened?

    I don’t know that the Constitution would have been ruptured. No one does. Hell, no one knows for sure what would have happened had a default happened (even though I think the GOP would have caved on this).

    But you may have ruptured the Constitution elsewhere. The idea of even the possibility of future automatic tax cuts robs a future president and Congress its ability to pass budgets and determine tax and economic policy. Even the hint of a promise of a Constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget is absurd. The demand for cuts may hamper the president’s ability to put forward another stimulus program.

    And on the table are bipartisan proposals that would pay for spending cuts by cutting middle class tax provisions. Other proposals would rewrite tax laws to favor big corporations.

    I can almost understand those who accept this deal. But calling it a win just because, for now, Social Security is supposedly protected, doesn’t pass the smell test. Hell, the payroll tax holiday, which originally was a Republican proposal, threatens social security because it says that it is acceptable not to fund Social Security in order to provide a tax break.

    And as part of this dumbass agreement, the president has signaled that extending the Bush tax cuts may be acceptable in the future, depending on what else is done with the budget. I don’t get this at all as anything less than pointless capitulation.

    Lastly, the Republicans have promised to gut Health Care reform and anything else they don’t like. You’ve only warded off the latest attack, not preserved anything.

  191. 191.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Listen to the beginning, the middle, and the end.

    Look, I was trying to do a public service and alert you to the fact that the President was in the Rose Garden talking to you. If you had wanted a play-by-play of the speech from me, you should have asked for one. I can’t read your mind.

  192. 192.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: He did say “our”.

  193. 193.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    @slag:

    I’ve said absolutely nothing about either a bully or a pulpit. But I guess people just hear what they want to hear.

    No, you said “hahaha, where have I heard this before?” thereby making my general point about how bully pulpting to the base is pointless. You’re never going to believe what he says, you never did and you never will.

  194. 194.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Has he already forgotten about his role in perpetrating this nonsense?

    And scene.

  195. 195.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    @slag: So he’s complaining about himself?

  196. 196.

    Corner Stone

    August 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    @slag:

    you [Nick] come off as nothing more than either a shill or a rube.

    Why do we have to choose?

  197. 197.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Wouldn’t you be?

  198. 198.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    @OzoneR: Are you kidding with this garbage? Because if you’re going to try and make this case, it might be better to wait…I don’t know…at least a day after the complete failure to use the deficit as an argument in favor of revenue increases. Seriously, a day is all I ask. Unless, of course, you expect the magical bully pulpit to persuade me to not believe my lying eyes.

  199. 199.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    @slag:

    Wouldn’t you be?

    Yes, after I fired the political adviser who told me to play up the debt/deficit and to offer my own crushing reduction plan.

  200. 200.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    @Corner Stone: You don’t. I believe in situation-specific assessments, remember?

    BTW-You were right. I bet you that the deal would include revenue increases and not just tax cuts. I was wrong. The wager of our bet, unstated by me, was not a single donation from my pocket to the Dems through 2012. I will honor it.

  201. 201.

    Binky

    August 2, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    No one could have predicted that vaporizing $1 trillion in government spending might adversely affect the sales of products and services of American companies. It’s crazy!

  202. 202.

    eemom

    August 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    why the fuck does he keep using the word “Washington,” thereby playing right into the both sides do it bullshit — instead of saying REPUBLICANS created the crisis?? REPUBLICANS caused the gridlock??

    Fuck.

  203. 203.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    @slag:

    BTW-You were right. I bet you that the deal would include revenue increases and not just tax cuts. I was wrong. The wager of our bet, unstated by me, was not a single donation from my pocket to the Dems through 2012. I will honor it.

    Can I interest you in Fuckhead’s Fourth Way Party? We’re going to need a little seed money to launch our party Party on Friday night.

  204. 204.

    Corner Stone

    August 2, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    @slag:

    The wager of our bet, unstated by me, was not a single donation from my pocket to the Dems through 2012. I will honor it.

    Damn. I can’t even get a tequila shot offa being right? What kind of country do we live in?
    Oh, that’s right. I’ll just tighten ma belt a lil and everything’ll come up agave.

  205. 205.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 2, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    Oh look, now eemom wants a Framing Pony.

  206. 206.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: From what I can tell, Stephen Colbert is doing pretty much the only job worth paying for these days. All my ducats are now belong to him.

  207. 207.

    El Cid

    August 2, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    @OzoneR:

    yes, that’s how it works. That how it worked in 2008 and that’s why we had our successes in 2009 and 2010.

    Really? There weren’t any other quite significant variables and realities which outweighed enthusiasm and zeal by supporters?

    Which other big elections were so determined? Why do all these poopyheads keep finding big underlying and usually quantifiable variables which are much stronger predictors?

    A lack of zeal on their part, too?

  208. 208.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    @slag:

    it might be better to wait…I don’t know…at least a day after the complete failure to use the deficit as an argument in favor of revenue increases.

    Maybe if you had paid attention, you’d know he did use the deficit as an argument in favor of revenue increases all summer and it got nowhere in part because people like you are too fucking cynical to know it’s happening.

  209. 209.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Damn. I can’t even get a tequila shot offa being right?

    No. But look at it this way…if you’re wrong enough, you could end up with a swank gig at any one of a number of cable news outlets. Or possibly even Wall Street. Just work a little harder at being wrong next time. For your own good.

  210. 210.

    Elie

    August 2, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Of course dear, the fight goes on. Nothing is ever locked in stone — “preserved” as you put it. We have to work all the time. Whaaa? You didn’t know that!

    The thing is, you can’t accept success. That means that everything is always failure. You don’t keep progressive movements going with that. Folks need to know that we have to treasure our successes, not matter how small, and keep pushing forward.

    Black people in this country got “freed” in 1860, but we are still fighting. We have made enormous progress but at any point along the way, you could characterize where we are now as “failure”.

    You are just not about working to do this thing, psychologically. You just don’t have that in the belly thing. You want to show up at the last minute and walk across the finish line, arms outstretched in the V for victory, pose for pics and go home, satisfied that all is well. Forever.

    Wake up to life, man. Really. Wake up.

  211. 211.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    @OzoneR:

    RE: Why is there any consideration at all for extending these dumbass tax cuts? Isn’t this pre-capitulation, even if it is an attempt at strategy?

    You’re reading that wrong. A balanced deficit reduction bill would repeal them for the rich. If they’re not repealed for the rich, Obama won’t reauthorized them at all. This is the veto threat liberals kept clamoring about last year.

    The president always has a veto threat. There is nothing new here.

    I don’t understand why Obama is tying anything at all to the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Isn’t this a substantive change from his earlier promise to repeal the Bush tax cuts?

    In fact I don’t understand why Obama is not working with the Democrats to craft a more proactive tax proposal that formally kills the Bush tax cuts.

    As it is, aside from Obama’s original outline, every tax proposal being considered by Congress, Republican and bipartisan plans, assume a continuation of the Bush tax cuts, reduced taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals, and pay for this by severe cuts on the middle class.

    So as a reminder, if the Bush tax cuts expire, Individual tax rates revert to 15, 28, 31, 36, 39.6 percent.

    The plans under consideration (The Gang of Six, etc) would see three Individual tax brackets as low as 8, 14 and 23 percent, and a single corporate tax rate as low as 23 percent. The strange thing is that even some Congressional Democrats are in favor of this.

    So you get a crappy tax plan, Obama vetoes it, and automatic spending cuts are triggered. Victory!

  212. 212.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    @OzoneR:

    it got nowhere in part because people like you are too fucking cynical to know it’s happening.

    So, is the Cynicism Fairy any way related to the Confidence Fairy? And are they both related to the Free Market Fairy? Is there a Fairy family tree I can follow to see exactly where I, personally, have failed the process? Maybe I need a Bootstrap Fairy so I can have something to pull myself up by in order to adequately distance myself from the Cynicism Fairy.

  213. 213.

    Major Mel Funkshun

    August 2, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    Dow down 200+ points, for those still keeping score…

  214. 214.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t understand why Obama is tying anything at all to the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Isn’t this a substantive change from his earlier promise to repeal the Bush tax cuts?

    No, because a balanced-approach calls for them to expire. He’s saying “either you kill them or I will”

    every tax proposal being considered by Congress, Republican and bipartisan plans, assume a continuation of the Bush tax cuts, reduced taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals, and pay for this by severe cuts on the middle class.

    which the President DID NOT support.

  215. 215.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    @slag:

    So, is the Cynicism Fairy any way related to the Confidence Fairy? And are they both related to the Free Market Fairy? Is there a Fairy family tree I can follow to see exactly where I, personally, have failed the process? Maybe I need a Bootstrap Fairy so I can have something to pull myself up by in order to adequately distance myself from the Cynicism Fairy.

    so you got nothing then?

  216. 216.

    OzoneR

    August 2, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    @El Cid:

    There weren’t any other quite significant variables and realities which outweighed enthusiasm and zeal by supporters?

    Well there’s the reality that Democrats just don’t fucking vote ever no matter what their party does or tries to do.

  217. 217.

    catclub

    August 2, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    @Major Mel Funkshun: -265
    but still much closer to all time highs than the 2009 low.

  218. 218.

    catclub

    August 2, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    @Brachiator: Promise #1 from Obama was “If you make less than $250k/yr, I will not raise your taxes.” The GOP will turn that into another hostage to
    keep the tax cuts on those above $250k/yr.

  219. 219.

    WaterGirl

    August 2, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    @dr. bloor: You made me laugh, then not so much, when I realized it could be true if we don’t all work our butts off in the next election and keep the crazies out of the white house, the house and the senate.

    Edit: Oh, I see that this thread has devolved to a back-and-forth between Ozone and others, which always signals the end of a thread. If some of you guys wouldn’t play with these kids who are just here to tear things down, maybe we could have nice things.

  220. 220.

    Zach

    August 2, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    What’s funny is that, at the moment, this is about half the fall that everyone was so worried about with the vote last night. The TARP failure led to a 6% drop in global equities (roughly the same in the DOW, American equities, etc) or a few trillion dollars. The total market index is down over 2.5% today and over 7% over the past 5 sessions… or a few trillion dollars in global equities.

  221. 221.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    @Elie:

    Of course dear, the fight goes on. Nothing is ever locked in stone—“preserved” as you put it. We have to work all the time. Whaaa? You didn’t know that! The thing is, you can’t accept success.

    Had you said that we have to continue to fight despite setbacks you might have a point. But it is pointless to suggest that Obama succeeded here, no matter how narrowly you want to redefine the results of the compromise.

    Your attempt to somehow yoke the struggles of black people to political fights between Democrats and Republicans is bizarre, ridiculous, irrelevant and insulting.

    Black people in this country got “freed” in 1860, but we are still fighting.

    And by the way, I think you want to double check that date.

    The rest of your post crosses the line. You don’t know me, what I have done or what I will do for my beliefs. You really should know better.

  222. 222.

    slag

    August 2, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    @OzoneR:

    so you got nothing then?

    No. I have everything I need. In this situation, I gotta go with rube. I mean, how could you not at this point?

  223. 223.

    Brachiator

    August 2, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    @OzoneR:

    RE: I don’t understand why Obama is tying anything at all to the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Isn’t this a substantive change from his earlier promise to repeal the Bush tax cuts?

    No, because a balanced-approach calls for them to expire. He’s saying “either you kill them or I will”

    That’s not what he’s saying at all.

    And the tax cuts were set to expire before, but somehow got extended. But of course, that will never happen again. Ha!

    But again the larger point is that the president needs to seize the initiative and propose a more comprehensive and coherent tax plan, especially if somehow the Democrats retake the House.

    RE: every tax proposal being considered by Congress, Republican and bipartisan plans, assume a continuation of the Bush tax cuts, reduced taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals, and pay for this by severe cuts on the middle class.

    which the President DID NOT support.

    These proposals are on the table right now. They are being considered by Republicans and Democrats right now. Clearly, the president’s wishes are being ignored. And if, by some phony accounting tricks, the Congress claims that their new proposals come closer to balancing the budget, this president will look for the compromise, even if it makes no long term fiscal sense. The precedent has been established.

    The president’s promises about killing the Bush tax cuts mean nothing. He has already broken that promise. There is no particular reason to believe him when he says, “next time it will be different,” especially when he ties it to the so-called “balanced plan.” And doubly especially if he gets backed into another corner regarding spending cuts.

  224. 224.

    MBunge

    August 2, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    @Brachiator: The president’s promises about killing the Bush tax cuts mean nothing. He has already broken that promise.

    He also promised not to raise taxes on the middle class. Which one should he have broken in the middle of an economic catastrophe?

    Mike

  225. 225.

    Ken

    August 2, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Binky @201: I’m kind of going back and forth. Obviously the news that the largest single employer in the country will be scaling back operations is bad. But it’s also now clear that a small-but-powerful segment of the Congress is perfectly willing to have the US default, and I would think that would also be a drag on the market – at the least, investors have to reconsider their risk assessment, and perhaps even the idea that the US is a “safe haven”.

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