There was crazy chatter about this earlier, and now CNBC is reporting that the government is preparing for a possible downgrade from S&P.
Remember, during the debt ceiling fight, S&P warned that there was a 50/50 chance of a downgrade if spending weren’t cut by at least $4 trillion dollars.
Bear in mind that both Fitch and Moody’s have both come out affirming the US AAA.
Ben White at POLITICO has also said that an announcement could come out today…
The popular thinking on this is that its impact on markets would be less significant than the political impact to Obama.
That being said, never before has the world’s safest sovereign been downgraded, so who knows what would happen. There could certainly be issues among funds that are compelled to hold AAA assets.
Allegedly, one of the listed causes is GOP refusal to ever increase taxes. But this is all rumors atm.
Monkey Business
Just a hypothetical. If Moody’s and Fitch both affirmed the US AAA rating, and S&P doesn’t, wouldn’t that A) make S&P look awfully stupid, and B) open them up to an SEC investigation, given previous statements?
Hill Dweller
Why should anyone take S&P seriously? They completely missed Lehman, Bear Sterns, and myriad other piles of shit they rated AAA. We need a rating agency for the rating agencies.
beltane
S&P? One of Silvio Berlusconi’s only good deeds was to launch a raid on their Milan offices. There is only one way to deal with gangsters.
FormerSwingVoter
Exhibit #15,792 on Why The Republican Party Must Be Burned To The Ground.
WereBear
And they like to call themselves the fiscally responsible.
They don’t act like they understand it at all.
demkat620
See, they told the Big Money Boys, “Don’t worry, we got these Tea Party Clowns under control”
Except they don’t. I won’t be a bit surprised when they start to fight back. CR expires soon too.
Won’t another Gubmint shutdown be fun?
lamh34
Ugh, can someone explain to me .WTF is this hard-on Tweety has against the POTUS “bus-tour”?
Isn’t this exactly what he should be doing? Taking his message to the people. IMHO, this is yet another way the administration can bypass the national press who seem to be all about the rating, and go directly to the local news coverage where more people who are not national news junkies?
Martin
Because the people with their hands on the economic levers take S&P seriously, and we need to take them seriously.
Sentient Puddle
If Moody’s and Fitch still hold the US at AAA, I’m not really sure an S&P downgrade really has any tangible effect, so this is more something to roll eyes at. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that.
But…
@Hill Dweller:
I really wish people would stop saying stuff like this. All the ratings agencies fucked up bad between 2005 and 2008, but that doesn’t have any relevance to the regulations that kick in automatically due to treasury bonds becoming riskier assets.
beltane
This is why it’s never good to put crazy, illiterate people in positions of power. For the good of the country, the Tea Part should be tossed overboard into the waters of Boston Harbor.
Hill Dweller
@Sentient Puddle:
Where else is the world going to go? We are still the safest investment, regardless of the rating.
Martin
@lamh34: From the link:
They don’t talk about jobs. They complain about a lack of a jobs initiative, while not providing one themselves. Tweety could save himself a lot of unnecessary exhaling if he’d simply point out that these asshats are whining without offering solutions.
Reality Check
@Hill Dweller:
They’ll go to the Euro.
Sentient Puddle
@Hill Dweller: Doesn’t matter. The risk-adjusted value of assets is dependent on those ratings. And if banks see a good chunk of their capital vanish into thin air, very bad things will happen.
Maybe not the most ideal system, but it’s the system that we have.
Stooleo
Stupid fuckers need to lined up against a wall.
beltane
@Martin: All Rick Perry talks about is Jesus. I, for one, would never vote whose prayers are so decisively ignored by God.
Never underestimate Chris Matthew’s hard-on for low IQ Texas Republicans. Something about these incompetent braggarts makes him yearn to exchange genetic information with them. Maybe David Brooks will explain this for us in his next column.
Linnaeus
@Sentient Puddle:
I understand what you’re saying here, but I hope you can understand why someone might say, “Fuck S&P” after they and the other rating agencies 1) helped perpetuate a massive fraud and then 2) tried to evade responsibility by telling Congress that their ratings were “just opinions” and shouldn’t have been taken so seriously anyway.
@Martin:
Perhaps, but I think that also means we need to get some new hands on the economic levers, and more of them.
Elie
When is S&P supposed to make this announcement? And why? Does anyone have any insight given the other Rating Agency’s AAA rating?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Stooleo: What are going to use, the great wall of china?
Sentient Puddle
@Linnaeus:
Oh I absolutely understand why people would say it. It just doesn’t change the fact that downgrades from the ratings agencies would totally fuck everything up.
@Reality Check:
You forgot the rimshot.
General Stuck
nuff to make a firebagger jump for joy
Rome Again
U.S. Constitution – Article 1, Section 8:
Section 8 – Powers of Congress
Yeah, it’s ALL Obama’s fault!
TK-421
Let’s all hope this is just stupid rumor-mongering and S&P won’t actually follow through.
If this turns out to be true, however, I am going to have the mother of all emo manic progressive freakouts, but probably not in the way people think/fear.
That a handful of guys who couldn’t hack it on Wall Street dared dictate fiscal policy to the largest economy on Earth was galling enough. For them to witness a bipartisan and intentional (albeit completely WRONG) effort by the US government to improve the long term quality of its debt as a sign to downgrade that debt is just…well, it’s just too much.
Fuck you, S&P. Just…fuck you.
WaterGirl
I wonder if this could be a response to the Republicans making it clear this week that we can expect more of the same, over and over. Could this be a message to the Republicans that they cannot screw with this stuff without consequences?
Is there any way to see this as a positive thing if it prevents the Republicans from doing this crap for the next 15 months?
Elie
@Linnaeus:
Linnaeus:
And how do you propose getting new hands on S&P’s levers? Just walk up and put new hands with clean, leftist vision in place.
For criminy’s sake.. really. Yeah, it would be great to have a world with no sadness, no poverty — just like the Beatle’s song, “Imagine”.
Get real…
TK-421
@Stooleo:
Co-signed, and repeated. I don’t care that the rhetoric is over the top, it’s totally justified IMO. Fuck these people.
TK-421
@Reality Check:
You’re suggesting investors will go to the Euro if S&P downgrades US debt?
You might be right, but I would totally LOL that. Investors, you think the Euro is a safer haven? Good luck with that.
Linnaeus
@Elie:
I am real. There’s a real problem when economic power is so highly concentrated. And there’s nothing unreal about wanting to do something to remedy that problem. How that happens is, of course, up for discussion, and that’s one of the things we do here at Balloon Juice, no?
jl
I think a downgrade would mostly hit state and local government and consumers, not so much market for US treasuries itself.
Credit agencies are like Keynes’ bankers, their fear is not so much to fail, but to be seen to fail by themselves rather than together. So I wonder if one will downgrade without others doing so.
Reality Check
The Euro thing was a joke, people. BTW, remember all the crowing in 2006 that the Euro would totally replace the dollar as the primary reserve currency? LOL.
I expect more people to go the Swiss Franc and, of course, gold. Gold is doing great as usual, and it will continue to do so until the government stops devaluing our currency.
Rome Again
@Elie:
#1: Who the hell is Criminy?
#2: If you never strive for the positive, you’ll always be stuck in the negative.
jl
@27 Good luck with the Euro, indeed. The new trade volume itself would roil that much smaller currency and securities market, in addition to the roiling already in progress.
TK-421
@WaterGirl:
Sadly, no, not IMO. This will suck hard if this happens. I’m just going to go get wasted now and hope that Politico is just fucking with everyone.
General Stuck
Looks like since the House wingnuts couldn’t pull the trigger on default and turn our economy into a nightmare from just an worried dream, some other wingnuts are willing to step up to the plate to destroy as much as is necessary, to where enough voters come to the conclusion that Obama is making the nutters crazy enough to kill us all, so the nigger’s gotta go.
Reality Check
I’m of the opinion that S&P is fucking with us. I don’t see how they downgrade when the other two ratings agencies haven’t. I’m thinking there’s going to be rumors of a downgrade followed by the keeping of the AAA rating with a strongly worded letter attached.
Plus politico is a rag that trades in rumor mongering.
Rome Again
@Reality Check:
If we ever get to the point that Gold is the only solution, be prepared to carry a lot of it in a short time just to buy groceries. It’s a Heavy Metal. A bag of groceries (by current standards) could take you at least two days to procure.
WaterGirl
@TK-421: I guess I was/am naively hoping that S&P might do the financial version of “if you don’t start behaving right now, you will “.
Like maybe they will leave us at AAA but announce a date for review again in 3 months? As you can no doubt tell from my questions, I have no idea how these ratings places work, other than having looked the other way during the run-up to the financial crisis a couple of years ago.
@General Stuck: But Stuck, if they were trying to bring down Obama, why the rumors that they will say it’s in part due to the republican behavior?
priscianusjr
@TK-421:
Reality Check
@Rome Again:
WTF? One ounce is worth approx. $1,600. It wouldn’t take much to buy groceries for a week.
Rome Again
@Reality Check:
I said if we get to the point where Gold is the ONLY SOLUTION – that means:
#1. It will not be worth that much (think inflation)
#2 It will be very heavy to carry (it will take a lot of time to purchase items because of how long it takes you to transport it).
priscianusjr
@<a href="#commen@TK-421:
Reality Check
@priscianusjr:
Yes, I was. The Euro won’t even exist in 5 years. So much for replacing the dollar!
priscianusjr
@Linnaeus:
General Stuck
@WaterGirl:
That’s my point. Wingers never do anything bad unless dems or one dem in particular causes them to do it. It’s the lizard brane predatory rule of sewing fear in the minds of the majority, with subliminal, and sometimes overt signals of how voters can make it stop. Get rid of the source point of it all and we can have nice things again. It is the basic premise hehind all the hostage taking and nihilistic GOP behavior. Don’t reelect Obama and you will be safe.
edit – it is also a form of political terrorism
Rome Again
@General Stuck:
Yes, and those needles hurt like hell!
ruemara
@lamh34: Because the only thing the media love more than bloviating their opinions as facts, is contradicting themselves the next day, or minute.
@WaterGirl:
um, “Do as we say, don’t fight back and we won’t kill your baby”. It’s kinda the undercurrent of the tactics, no?
Rome Again
@General Stuck:
Safe? I don’t think that word means what they think it means. I don’t feel safe with ANY Republican in the Oval Office. I’ll take my chances with Obama.
priscianusjr
@WaterGirl:
General Stuck
@Rome Again:
Yes, but you are an Obot. Only works on non Obots who might possibly vote for Obama/
fleeting expletive
I have a somewhat OT question: If a household earns $250K a year, where is that in the range of incomes, from $0 to the wealthiest? What % of households are over/under that amount?
TK-421
@WaterGirl:
That would be nice and yeah they can do that. I could be wrong, but I think S&P (or one of the ratings agencies) has already put US debt on “credit review.” If S&P already has Treasuries under review (somebody who’s not a lazy a–hole like me please Google this), then there’s no reason to announce that again.
You have to remember that this would represent a dichotomy between the fundamental quality of US debt, and the technical quality of US debt.
Fundamentally, S&P can call Treasuries junk and all that would happen is S&P would look like fools. Technically, however, LOTS of pension funds and mutual funds and hedge funds and god knows what else are severely constrained on what they can and cannot invest in. A lot of them cannot be invested in debt that is less than AAA.
So if Treasuries are no longer AAA, then no matter how much fund managers might disagree with that assessment, they will have to sell their Treasury holdings and get into…something else. And oooh will that be fun, because this will be the first time a market panic fueled by a “flight to quality” will involve a flight away from US Treasuries. Where the hell are investors going to go? Jesus, what a mess that would be, it would essentially be as if the US did default. WTF, thanks a lot S&P, now please go DIAF.
One question I have for, again, someone who’s not a lazy a–hole like me: what are the rules for investors if only one of the ratings agencies downgrades? Do they have specific instructions if the ratings are not unanimous? I almost think they don’t have clear guidelines on that, which would be a blessing (because it would allow investors to stay in Treasuries). It’s almost too much to hope for, though. Meh, where’s the rum?
DecidedFenceSitter
@fleeting expletive: Joint returns with more than $250,000 adjusted gross income and single returns with more than $125,000 adjusted gross income together are estimated to make up 3.1 percent of households next year [2009].
Rome Again
@General Stuck:
I’m NOT an Obot. I said I would hold his feet to the fire when I felt that it was necessary and I’m mad as hell over this recent package that was delivered. I still feel safer with Obama than with any Rightwinger.
Derf
Bahaha…! DOW closed up 60, employment numbers came in better than expected. So what is a gloom porn addict to do. Move on to the next shiny gloom object of course.
Stay Gloomy Cole!
priscianusjr
@WaterGirl:
Actually, the General said it better. It’s Obama’s fault because if it hadn’t been for Obama, the GOP wouldn’t have HAD to hold the country hostage.
Rome Again
@priscianusjr:
A black man can’t live in a white house?
TK-421
@Reality Check:
I can’t believe I’m saying this and I can’t believe it’s true, but Europe and their markets are in possibly worse shape than America and her markets. That’s…unpossible.
Dennis SGMM
Why didn’t S&P just say that we had to cut spending by “A million, bazillion dollars?” I am light years from being an economist but, how did S&P come up with $4 trillion, what was the time frame to make the cuts and wouldn’t it have made more sense in any case to express what they felt to be an acceptable deficit in terms of a percentage of GDP?
lamh34
I guess we can add this to the “REALLY FoxNews” list.
So POTUS can’t even celebrate his birthday without Fox geting all racial??
Fox Nation Reporting On President Obama’s Birthday: ‘Obama’s Hip-Hop BBQ Didn’t Create Jobs’
Elie
@Rome Again:
OMG — A REAL Utopian!
I bow to you, Oh great lecturer on optimism and the use of unapproved terminology….
I am way more optimistic but also practical, than many of you leftie utopians. Believe me, I totally am a can do person, and I understand hypotheticals, so quit with the lecture.
PS – “Criminy” is a figure of speech used loosely in this case as a subsitute for calling out “jesus” or some such. Hope that helps
lamh34
Whoops…duplicate.
MikeBoyScout
Just a reminder that CNBC reporting is akin to Fox & Friends reporting.
Lest you have forgotten … http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-12-2009/jim-cramer-extended-interview-pt–1
RossInDetroit
@Derf:
Okay, Derf. If you fell down a 50 foot elevator shaft would the 6 foot bounce when you hit be good news?
TK-421
There are times when Derf’s stupidity is so bad, it’s good. He’s kind of like the “Snakes on a Plane” of the internet commentariat.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@lamh34:
I think you aleady answered your own question there, sport.
General Stuck
@Rome Again:
My definition of Obot is someone who initially gives Obama the benefit of the doubt, and does not buy into false charges, or charges where the evidence doesn’t back it up. And is willing to make detailed arguments of whatever the allegation against Obama is. And demand those making the allegations provide their own evidence.
And allows some room for fucking up, before support is withdrawn. And he has fucked up a number of times, but none of them cross my personal red lines, at least not yet. And really not all that much with the situation he has to deal with. The rest of what he does that I don’t like, I also weigh against the things he does right.
I know the rumor is that Obots in general, and this one in particular, are blind followers never criticizing and willing to accept anything. People have to decide for themselves which is which, and who is right and who is wrong in this matter.
Maude
@lamh34:
Yup. It was on RightyRadio this a.m. I had to change the station which I had gone on for 30 seconds. It did make me a bit angry.
WaterGirl
@TK-421: Thanks so much for that explanation!
@priscianusjr: @General Stuck: I know they blame Obama for everything, but they are not subtle about it. This seems to subtle, to me. They could just as easily said they would be downgrading because Obama couldn’t get them to play nice or couldn’t control the debate (or whatever).
ruemara:
I think that’s what the republicans have been doing, but I’m not sure at all about why the hell S&P would leak this today, after the market was so up&down and took such a loss yesterday. Or maybe they leaked this late on Friday so the markets couldn’t react right away and so the Rethugs can do a little soul searching over the weekend. But who knows? This little game with S&P is being played way over my head.
Bill Murray
I don’t have anything to add, but if anyone has seen the Dalai Lama please let me know where he went
beltane
It’s just being reported that there will be an emergency meeting of G7 ministers tomorrow. I feel much more confident now.
Elie
@Bill Murray:
thanks for a friday afternoon yuk.. :-)
ruemara
@fleeting expletive:
Households that earn $250,001.00. The taxes are for over $250k earners.
tworivers
Welcome to the Austerity
Elie
@Maude:
But was there a downgrade of the US rating or is that still a rumor? Is that related to the meeting tomorrow or unrelated or do we know?
Linda Featheringill
@General Stuck: #66
In a better world, that would be the definition of all political commentators. But, alas, it is not.
Old Dan and Little Ann
If the U.S. does not have AAA who are they going to call when they lock the keys in the car?
300baud
@Hill Dweller:
They were paid to miss the problems with MBSes, and did a good job of it. And almost everybody was taken by surprise about the crash, so that’s not held against them.
But they are paid to be approximately correct about government debt. And it’s not like investors (especially investors once and twice removed from direct bond purchases) have a better option for rating things right now. So people will listen to them.
Elie
I don’t see any firm announcement of the downgrade, so assume its still “rumored”… what a destructive thing to do and I really would like to understand why, if it turns out to be true. Particularly why since most of the stock market broohaha relates to the international economic situation and the other two ratings agencies did not do that. Something smells very very fishy to me
Maude
@Elie:
No downgrade yet. BBC online is saying S&P hasn’t decided or whatever the term is.
It is strange that they are doing this. The US didn’t default and we are sound, except for the teatards.
From Listening to Bloomberg where they do have guest from Europe etc. Europe is afraid their banking system might collapse. They are also questioning if the EU will collapse and then the euro will go down the tubes.
TARP saved us from a banking collapse. In Europe, they have a different banking system where no one can do what was done here.
We are better off here than in Europe.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@tworivers:
Time to bend over and grab your ankles then, just as Marx predicted: First as Tragedy, then as Arse.
cleek
@General Stuck:
with this, i concur.
jeff
Kramer says it’s a downgrade.
“bracing for a downgrade” not certain.
Elie
@Maude:
Thanks, Maude.
I think its fair to say that the world is in turbulent times that really are a continuation of the crisis in 2008.
Of course I am definitely no expert in finance but I don’t see how downgrading the US today, given what has been happening globally, helps anything.. Like Old Dan says upstring, who they gonna call? We’re still the big dog, for all our fleas and bad habits…
RossInDetroit
According to Benen – sorry if someone stated this and I missed it – one of the rumored reasons for the rumored downgrade is “GOP intransigence”.
A downgrade would cost billions. All for their little tantrum. Thanks for being mature and responsible, Republicans.
Danny
@Linda Featheringill:
That’s what continues to baffle me, the lack of substance among the resident emoproggers. They got about a 1/10 reasonable/bullshit ratio, but make up for it in college sarcasm and circle-jerking.
“Oh excuse ME, OF COURSE Obama is the BESTEST PRZ EVER!11!!! Here, have this link to Brad DeLong, he will show why I’m not full of it”
lamh34
BREAKING: White House challenges S&P downgrade
greenergood
@Rome Again: My mom doesn’t think so, but I’m not my mom.
Sko Hayes
I just read this on Twitter:
ETA -Just tweeted from@LisaDCNN:
Reality Check
Hopey Changey really thinks he can stop the wolves at S&P? What an arrogant blowhard.
Maude
@Elie:
The day is over in finance land. They’re in their Mercs and on the way home.
I don’t like this type of thing. I wonder why it is happening.
We can’t understand finance because it makes no sense. The bankers didn’t know what they were doing before the meltdown.
Elie
@lamh34:
The CNN post sites that they are making some “revisions” to their reports that contain errors (?) or misstatements on projectin the debt?? Dunno. Any way, concludes ambiguously that “some” (whoever they are), still want to downgrade the US. Hmmmm
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@General Stuck:
Co-signed.
I’ll add the proviso that in my own very humble opinion commentors who have the country’s best interests at heart from a Dem/liberal point of view would be well advised to make their criticism of the President contructive and based on suggested alternative courses of action which bear some relation to the practical realities of today, and not the realities of 1933 or 1964 or some other exceptional moment of progressive triumph in our past history, moments which were exceptional in ways very different from the big ugly bag of bad juujuu we are grappling with now.
Maude
@Reality Check:
You need to put Does in front of that sentence.
Martin
@Dennis SGMM:
The $4T comes from looking out at the deficit baselines and expected GDP growth, seeing what the debt/GDP ratio would be 10 years from now and how much below the baseline the deficit baseline would need to be to keep debt/GDP at current levels.
In other words, S&P and other raters said that the current debt/GDP ratio for the US is the highest it can be and retain the AAA rating. Since the US govt shows that 10 years out, we’ll have an estimated $4T in debt above that line, the raters want to see a new plan that keeps it below that line, and we have 10 years to do it.
I think that’s a reasonable thing to ask for actually, and they leave it up to the folks in power to decide which of the 3 variables they want to tweak – spending, revenues, or GDP. Short answer, spending is easiest but takes the longest to get there, GDP is the hardest to tweak but gets us there the fastest, revenues is the most predictable way to get there. That Congress went for the easy/slow route rather than the hard, fast, or predictable routes doesn’t reflect well on the nations ability to actually get their house in order.
Reality Check
@Maude:
Missed an “s” at the end of “thinks”, actually. Corrected.
Elie
@Reality Check:
Arrogant blowhard. Tu?
A Ghost To Most
So many lamp posts, so little time.
JPL
@lamh34: Thanks…
hmmm what has Obama done for you lately? maybe point out a few errors?
Reality Check
Nobody gives a crap about Obama anymore, nobody in the world. If anything he probably made the downgrade come faster.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Maude:
That is President Hopey Changey to you asshole.
lamh34
Bwhahahaha. Here’s Fox defending their “hip-hop BBQ” headline.
Elie
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
here here! strongly agreed as well
Also cosigned…
Linda Featheringill
@lamh34: #85
WH challenges the analysis of S&P.
Wow. You can do that? I guess you can.
Elie
@Reality Check:
Fuck YOU…
Suffern ACE
@Maude: The’ve been doing quite well at bailing out their banks in Europe as well. But I’m not seeing the banking collapse since the risk has been moved to governments. That’s the whole Ireland deal. Banks in trouble, government bails out bank and issues debt, government needs to go on austerity cause now its credit isn’t trustworthy.
LIBOR rates would be rising if the banks themselves were concerned about a general banking failure in europe and they have been as flat as can be. Although someone with more knowledge of the signs of doom can explain why in 2008 banks were getting very skittish about lending to one another and now in 2011 the same thing isn’t happening.
Reality Check
@Linda Featheringill:
No you can’t! No you can’t! No you can’t!
He probably just pissed them off even more. Nice going, BO.
Dennis SGMM
@Martin:
Thank you. Now I’m left wondering how the downgrade is different from the old time habit of sending people to debtors’ prison in that, if anything, the downgrade is likely to materially harm our economy and will therefore make it more difficult to reduce the deficit.
lojasmo
@reality check;
I believe that arrogant blowhard just ate your lunch.
Maude
@Suffern ACE:
I don’t understand it, but I have heard the concern about the banks in Europe several times this week.
They were also saying perhaps Greece would be cut loose from the EU.
I get the sense that things are really confusing in the EU right now.
Linda Featheringill
@Reality Check:
You know, I agree with you. I also like fruit pies more than cream pies.
Lemon meringue, on the other hand . . . . .
Alex S.
@Elie:
Don’t make this paid troll enjoy his job. It’s Friday evening and he’s got nothing better to do than to offer a factually challenged opinion to a group of people that will not agree with him.
Elie
@Alex S.:
Alex, thanks. Lost my head for a bit.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Reality Check:
Awwwwww, is the awful awful President making you his bitch again? Here’s your binky, now go have a nice nap while the adults are talking!
Rome Again
@Elie:
Ahh, come on Elie. You know this all in fun and you have to have thick skin here. Don’t show me you’re upset, it doesn’t look good on you.
Reality Check
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
He’s going to be the first President in our history to have a credit downgrade on his watch, in addition to the coming double-dip.
Can’t you just FEEL that TINGLE up your leg now? The Hope and Change?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Reality Check: I’m sorry, I don’t speak bitch.
Sko Hayes
Reality Check, evidently that “arrogant blowhard” has made the S&P wolves go back and check their figures.
Remember, this is the same firm that is so on top of things, they gave the failed Lehman Brothers an “A” rating.
Alex S.
@Elie:
Well… if he was serious, I’d probably say the same. But I cannot imagine that someone would voluntarily do that, to always be the only one with the contrarian opinion.
And I’m waiting for the thread that features more than one conservative commenter, one in which they even quote each other to reinforce their position and act like real human beings with a motivation that exceeds the next paycheck from the Romney campaign.
Reality Check
@Sko Hayes:
Trust in OBAMA with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
For shits ‘n giggles, I checked MSNBC.
Top picture story, bold: Its Fucking Hot In Dallas
Top left story, bold: Please Save Us In The Media From A Boring As Fuck 2012 Election, Rick Perry
Bottom left story, smaller bold: Nation Bracing For Possible Credit Downgrade
Well, I guess if its not that big a story…
Dennis SGMM
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
They were hoping for the more succinct “Obama Causes Credit Downgrade!” but that didn’t work out.
Jay in Oregon
Now, in the wonderful Free Market Fairyland that the glibertarians fap off about constantly, Standard & Poor’s would lose all of its business because of shoddy analysis which could have cost (did cost?) investors who knows how much in losses.
I’m not gonna hold my breath…
Suffern ACE
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: I vote that we make Somersby the minister of media in charge of prioritization and content. Fairness, schmareness…
Gosh. I’m so sad that our elections could be boring to them.
Reality Check
Don’t underestimate Rick Perry.
Rome Again
@General Stuck: Oh, my definition of Obot doesn’t leave room for any criticism at all. That seems to be the common Firebagger conception.
Danny
@Reality Check:
Fixed.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reality Check: It is to laugh.
Reality Check
@Omnes Omnibus:
Liberals and “progressives” laughed at Reagan as well.
Rome Again
@Reality Check:
Yeah, his marvelous performance at Texas A&M is going to really come in handy (the man was a Veterinarian major and he failed at one of the classes in his chosen field…. BUT (he only got two A’s several B’s and C’s and a couple of D’d and one F) – BUT, he DID get an A in study improvement and World Military Powers. :P
tworivers
Too bad the whole country was so successfully hyped (via dutiful, on-message Republicans and a complicit media) about the supposed threat posed by the Big Bad Debt. It’s very reminiscent of the run-up to the Iraq War, where the country was inundated with hype about Saddam and the “smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud”. The sales pitch used in both cases was much the same: “BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! This threatens your life and liberty!”. You’d think it wouldn’t work twice in a row, but it did.
Obama’s in a really tough position now. He wants to pivot to jobs but he has almost no room to operate. Certainly, he can’t push much stimulus. Keynesianism has been dismissed and austerity rules. How the fuck are we going to get this economy going again?
Omnes Omnibus
@Reality Check: Perry is no Reagan.
Reality Check
@Rome Again:
Woodrow Wilson was a brilliant academic, and Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer. How’d they work out as Presidents? Not too well.
Reality Check
BTW, when is Obama going to release *his* transcripts?
Judas Escargot
Look on the bright side. All those important people had just enough time to get out of the stock market and get into bonds before this news went out.
How very fortunate for them.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Elie:
Ignore the trolls. They want to get a rise out of you.
Here’s a tip: it is best to ignore any commentor who’s handle is inflated with postive sounding adjectives like “the Truth Teller”, or “Full of Wisdom”. That is an old sales and marketing trick, to put positive sounding adjectives in a proper name, like Honest John’s Used Cars and it is a tell that the positive qualities in question are in fact nowhere to be found. In my face-to-face circle we call this the People’s Democratic Republic principle because when a country has words like that in it’s name, you can be safe in assuming they are actually a squalid little dictatorship which is neither democratic nor a republic nor in any way concerned about its people. The same rule applies to folks on the net who flaunt their supposed objectivity, wisdom and sagacity.
Elie
@Rome Again:
Oh you rascal.
Yeah — sense of humor is key..sometimes its hard to know all the commenters here well enough to tell true statements of opinion from witty asides. I miss it sometimes but appreciate you coming back around to let me know in your case what was going on..
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Rome Again: Who cares about that? Just say ‘George W. Bush’ and let the Texas drawl take care of the rest.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reality Check:
@Reality Check:
So which one do you want to argue, smart is better or dumb is better?
RossInDetroit
@Rome Again:
What is that, like, the Special Olympics of college?
I mean no offense to the mentally handicapped in indirectly associating them with the governor of Texas.
Judas Escargot
@Reality Check:
We still do.
Suffern ACE
@Maude: Oh, it is. Following the soap opera. Italy wants the ECB to start purchasing its bonds using a facility set up to bail out Ireland and Portugal or it might default, or it won’t be able to pay its share of the bailout of Greece, which would then make Germany and France have to pay a larger share, but Germany doesn’t want to and France risks its own credit rating. Meanwhile the ECB has told Italy that it might help it out, but it must agree to make structural changes including passing an amendment to its constitution of some sort, which can’t exactly be an easy thing to do in August in Europe when everyone is on Vacation. The European Commission has voted to tell the ECB to help Italy, and made some recommendation that would require the votes of the parliments of 36 countries, many of which aren’t in session, and one of which, Belgium, hasn’t really had a government at all for months and would probably need to just have new elections, which might put people in charge of it who want to divide it into two separate countries.
I’m sure it will all be resovled this weekend :-)
Reality Check
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t think academics make all that much of a difference as far as being a leader. But since everyone always gushes about how “brilliant” Obama is, I say let’s see his transcripts.
Danny
I just marvel at how much the guy looks like a western villain. And reminds me of Dubya all at the same time.
TK-421
Jesus effing Christ, these ratings guys suck donkey balls. What in the HELL is wrong with these people? Much like payday lenders and rent-to-own stores, I seriously think we’d all be better off if we just firebombed the ratings agencies.
Danny
Maybe that could be a pitch: We tried Hoss Cartwright for President but these trying times call for a Jack Wilson.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reality Check: Transcripts show brilliance? I thought they simply showed grades.
fhtagn
@RossInDetroit:
We should try it and see. That’s what Comrade Benjamin Franklin would say, anyway.
Omnes Omnibus
@RossInDetroit:
@fhtagn:
No bounce. Splat.
arguingwithsignposts
So basically, S&P is using McArdle’s calculator.
we are so screwed.
Derf
@RossInDetroit: Atta boy. How is that cup half empty thing workin for ya?
Let me correct your math a bit…mmmmok. Since Feb 2009 we have gone from the 7th floor to the 13th floor. Then only this week we went down to the 12th floor.
In your world that is a 50 floor drop apparently. And what a sad pathetic gloomy world that must be.
DougW
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: No, but bitch looks good on you honeypot…
DougW
@Reality Check: Where have You been? Both Barrack and Michelle were very successful students, particularly BHO and law school. And, unlike a lot of Wing-nuts, gave of their time to the community, helping the poor or otherwise disadvantaged, rather than resting on daddy’s laurels like most Wingers…
DougW
@Judas Escargot: And will be for all time… St. Ray gun the right wing whore…
TenguPhule
I propose a new economic theory.
If we sacrifice a randomly chosen Galtian Teabagging Republican to the Sun Gods by cutting their heart out in front of the Wall Street Bull, the DOW will rise.
I submit we must accept this theory as true because it makes as much sense as Tax cuts generate revenue and the DOW has fallen when we haven’t done so.
TenguPhule
There are too many villages in Texas that are missing their idiots.
bob h
In fact S&P has handed some powerful ammunition to Obama-will he use it?