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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / S&P is shrill

S&P is shrill

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I missed this until now:

We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

I’m sure this won’t change the Ambinder/Politico/Halperin judgement that this all great news for Rick Perry, but it is what the S&P actually said.

Reader Interactions

64Comments

  1. 1.

    JGabriel

    Shorter Village Logic: S&P says they’re lowering the US’s credit rating because Republicans refuse to raise revenues. But, Obama is president. See, it’s both sides fault!

    .

  2. 2.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Since S&P said that it’s the fault of the “Republicans”, we can be sure that the M$M will be quick to report that both sides caused it.

    Right?

  3. 3.

    Baud

    Our lowering of the rating was prompted by our view on the rising public debt burden and our perception of greater policymaking uncertainty, consistent with our criteria (see “Sovereign Government Rating Methodology and Assumptions,” June 30, 2011, especially Paragraphs 36-41). Nevertheless, we view the U.S. federal government’s other economic, external, and monetary credit attributes, which form the basis for the sovereign rating, as broadly unchanged.

  4. 4.

    lamh34

    Apparently, the S&P guys interviewed by AC on CNN said that US could get back AAA rating if we let Bush Tax cuts expire on the rich.

    Anyone else see that?

  5. 5.

    C.J.

    The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

    Still applies. Some of us live in reality, some of us live in a horserace.

  6. 6.

    Dexter

    Apparently, the S&P guys interviewed by AC on CNN said that US could get back AAA rating if we let Bush Tax cuts expire on the rich.

    Time to investigate the guy’s counter tops.

  8. 8.

    Suffern ACE

    @General Stuck: Hey, we currently have a D+ elite running the show, pretty much all of our institutions barely passing. Being AA+ just kind of shows how strong the rest of us are at this whole nation building thing.

  10. 10.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @General Stuck:

    Like I tell the wife and kids, we can’t do a damned thing about this other than watch in horror as it unfolds.

    What else can we do. Nothing. We have the government we voted for, those who asked for it deserve whatever it delivers to them. Unfortunately, they are few compared to everyone else who will suffer because of them.

  11. 11.

    PeakVT

    That dig is pretty explicit, but everything before it basically says “blah blah blah cut spending blah blah entitlements blah blah blah both sides do it.” S&P doesn’t call out the Republicans until the 13th paragraph (15th if you count the summary and bullet points) when it should have done so in the first sentence.

    ETA: Still, better than nothing.

  12. 12.

    Carolinus

    Also from the S&P Press Release:

    The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell:

    “… the default issue was a hostage … it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming.”

  14. 14.

    Suffern ACE

    @Carolinus: Yep. One of these times, the brinksmen are gonna fail at the game. S&P has decided that what we just saw was real and not some kabuki theater put on to score points where the outcome was guaranteed. Good for them.

  15. 15.

    WereBear

    The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

    That’s absolutely true. It’s like visiting your sick uncle and screwing around with his dialysis machine.

  16. 16.

    jl

    Does S&P have the proper and fitting humbility that is what I want to know.

    I will watch the little bit of corporate media I expose myself to on a regular basis every day, CBS radio (for traffic and weather reports). Edit: to see how the S&P downgrade is reported.

    Heard courtly and gracious ol’ Schieffer today. He is doing regular analysis segments, I guess in an effort to get a few more people to tune into his boring show with its rotating panel of half a dozen old white VIPs (and I think that is only a slight exaggeration).

    Dude, talk about a clichebot. On the debt ceiling, all of Schieffer’s reports might be a recording he made a month ago. Maybe they are all the same recording. Well, I will monitor courtly ol’ Bob, anyway, if he comes on near the traffic or weather.

    I’m waiting for him to exclaim ‘Isn’t that Bawwwiiyyyed! That really Bawwiiyyeed!’ again someday. Not sure any hanky panky in the WH is likely, though.

  17. 17.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Carolinus:
    Wow. The meat of it:

    The political brinksmanship of recent months…
    The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

    makes it clear who they hold responsible for this, without a doubt.

    Now I know that the M$M will be quick to say that it’s the fault of both sides!

    Still, this is a BIG WHAP! upside the head of the right. One that I’m sure that they will be quick to ignore.

    ETA: Yes, and McConnell/Boner helped to take that hostage. Remember, Boner was proud to state that he got 98% of what he wanted.

    And it resulted in our rating being lowered. Hang it on him.

  19. 19.

    scottinnj

    I’m actually more surprised that they other agencies seem to have buckled under pressure and kept the US at AAA. If you were within days of a default, why on earth are you still “AAA” rated?

  20. 20.

    ChrisNYC

    I’m watching CNN. The part about revenues actually is getting quite a bit of play as well as the “brinksmanship” bit — also too that public opinion is pro-taxes. No discussion yet of Boehner’s walking away from the grand bargain. Ha ha — he’s going to rue saying he got 98% of what he wanted.

    Good Lord, even the execrable Alex Castellanos, GOP strategeist, is saying he would advise GOPers to “reach across the aisle.” I’m the optimistic type but I think the GOP is scared of this. (Romney has declared the country in “decline” — bad word for a candidate to use.)

  21. 21.

    WereBear

    Now I know that the M$M will be quick to say that it’s the fault of both sides!

    actually, on Anderson Cooper, they just had a REPUBLICAN advisor saying they have to stop the “finger pointing” and be bigger than that.

    A) I’m sure I was not hallucinating

    B) Good luck with that. They have trained their finger pointers for years. I don’t think they have bigger people.

  22. 22.

    WarMunchkin

    I’m already tired of hearing about S&P. They’re just glorified opinion columnists. Rusty pitchfork, etc.

  23. 23.

    Dennis SGMM

    Isn’t the downgrade just a formal recognition that our economy is in the tank and that we’ve passed the point where we can fix it in any reasonable amount of time?

  25. 25.

    Jenny

    @lamh34:

    Apparently, the S&P guys interviewed by AC on CNN said that US could get back AAA rating if we let Bush Tax cuts expire on the rich.

    This means Fixxed News and Hate Radio will begin trashing Standard & Poors as French.

  26. 26.

    JenJen

    Heckuva job, Boehner! Also, if you have the stomach for it, Erick Erickson has a pretty kraaaa-zzzy post up which desperately attempts to unravel the statement.

    Wow. I’m sincerely blown away that S&P actually said that.

    @JGabriel: @Odie Hugh Manatee: Pretty awesome one-two punch, there. :-)

  28. 28.

    ChrisNYC

    Also too, young Erick at RedState has a “don’t believe the S&P spin that this is our fault” post up. Seems he’s nervous.

  30. 30.

    Breezeblock

    I really hate this fucking country. Well, the political shit.

    If I move to Ireland, whiskey and Guinness… sweet release.

  31. 31.

    Suffern ACE

    @scottinnj: The others haven’t taken us off watch. They would have immediately downgraded us if we had defaulted, but we didn’t. It is a tough call, really. We are the wealthiest nation on earth by far. It’s not like there isn’t money around to pay the bills or no one willing to lend so we won’t be able to roll over debt.

  32. 32.

    Dennis SGMM

    @Baud:
    I just don’t see how either party comes out ahead on this. The Republicans were called out for their intransigence and the Democrats’ hands are more tied than they were before because any effective big money stimulus seems off the table even if they should win big in ’12.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    @Dennis SGMM: I’d like to think that if the Democrats win big in 2012, we’d have a stimulus just from the collective relief we’d all feel having the tea partiers out of power.

  34. 34.

    LosGatosCA

    @General Stuck:

    I am just going to stop worrying as American voters have the stupid country they deserve want.

    FTFY.

    Of course, it’s also a country a spoiled 3 year old wants.

    But unfortunately, the global and American elites have a severe case of arrested development, so the spoiled 3 year olds are convinced of what they should want by bullying, manipulative, spoiled 5 year olds.

    So we have that going for us.

  35. 35.

    JenJen

    @ChrisNYC: Jinx! I just noted Erick’s nonsense right above you. Wasn’t that piece insane? This quote, for example:

    The issue here, however, is that while present law presumed the GOP tax cuts would go away, the policy presumption is that they would get extended. Likewise, this is not blaming the GOP. This is a statement of reality that the GOP wasn’t going to raise taxes.

    And later:

    The whole focus is on the debt burden. And if taxes are not going to go up, as is reality, spending must go down.

    The left, spinning otherwise, is simply trying to escape blame.

    Just, wow. That piece is just begging for a “Shorter Erick” treatment.

  36. 36.

    FlipYrWhig

    IMHO it sounds like a very loud shot across the bow in support of the need for additional deficit reduction in the form of revenue increases, as well as for bipartisanship (probably of the Bowles-Simpson/Gang of Six variety). I’m not sure which is more important. It sure puts a very pointy Sword of Damocles over the heads of the Supercongress.

  37. 37.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Dennis SGMM:

    The Republicans were called out for their intransigence and the Democrats’ hands are more tied than they were before because any effective big money stimulus seems off the table even if they should win big in ‘12.

    Agreed. Which is why I peg it as a very Bowles-Simpson-y/Gang of Six-y intervention into the process.

  38. 38.

    ChrisNYC

    @ JenJen

    Totally missed your comment! You see now Erick’s got something up talking about how the TP had “the only” $4 trillion deal? Other than Obama’s, of course — which the GOP walked away from. Erick really seems quite worried.

    Interesting too — on CNN an S&P rating person is saying “balanced” and “bipartisan” is the answer.

  39. 39.

    FlipYrWhig

    @JenJen:

    This is a statement of reality that the GOP wasn’t going to raise taxes.

    Somebody explain to Irk Irksome that it’s precisely that “reality” that led to the downgrade. S&P believes it, took it to heart, and felt the sensation of a million souls crying out in terror.

  40. 40.

    WereBear

    The Tea Partiers are only a quarter of the House. I would be surprised if a number of stimulus are lurking on hard drives all over the capital. It can be done if the other Reoublicans want to distance themselves.

    I’d think they would want to. It’s not like they have principles. They only have imperatives.

  41. 41.

    Suffern ACE

    @JenJen: And if we cut spending as much as you said that you want to, there will be an economic contraction so large that we wouldn’t be able to pay off the debt either. Deflation has consequences.

  42. 42.

    Erin

    Anderson Cooper also claiming that S&P claims that Republicans and Democrats are equally to blame.

  43. 43.

    JenJen

    Sorry for the blockquote fail in my Erickson quote in the previous post. (#35) Next to last sentence is his, too (obvs).

    @ChrisNYC: @FlipYrWhig: @Suffern ACE: Exactly x3. And now his Twitter feed has me in hysterics.

    Sorry to treat a somewhat grave situation with humor, but at times like these, laughing at Erick is good medicine. Also, I am enjoying a refreshing adult beverage.

  45. 45.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Erin: Equally to blame for not working together, presumably, even though Democrats try it all the time and Republicans virtually never. Sigh.

    IMHO there’s a difference between “both sides are equally to blame” and “both sides need to come together,” the latter characterization much more in keeping with what I’ve seen of the S&P memo.

  47. 47.

    Anya

    @Erin: There’s a wide spread disease in the MSM called “both sides do it”. Here’s Dave Weigel on twitter:

    Democrats: You wouldn’t bend on entitlements. Republicans: Really don’t give a shit that you signed a no-tax pledge. You guys f’d up.

  48. 48.

    Jenny

    @Erin:

    Anderson Cooper also claiming that S&P claims that Republicans and Democrats are equally to blame.

    He’s the male version of a dumb blonde. He’s pretty, but completely clueless.

  49. 49.

    Dennis SGMM

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I hope that you’re right. I wonder, though, if letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthiest Americans will bring in sufficient revenue to turn the tide. Doing that will certainly help. I just don’t know how much it will help with 18% of the country unemployed/underemployed.

  51. 51.

    ericblair

    Cynical little me, my question is who’s behind the S&P downgrade. S&P hasn’t exactly been a beacon of independent thought in the last few years, and has been quite happy to slap whatever alphabet soup label an ibank wants on a bond, provided the ibank’s check clears. If we got ourselves a war going on between Wall Street and the True Believers that’s probably a good thing.

  52. 52.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Jenny: Aw. I think he’s got a good heart, a sense of humor, and is willing to put himself in a modest amount of danger (and not just from Kathy Griffin on New Year’s). In my book Coop _far_ exceeds the knowledge-less Peter Principle hack Brian Williams, who has the additional detriment of a face that looks like it was drawn on an Etch-a-Sketch and then given one big shake.

  53. 53.

    Helen

    @Breezeblock: That’s where I’m headed; probably Nov 2012 regardless of who wins. Went to the consulate yesterday to renew my paperwork. Although I think I am fooling myself. I want to go there because I tell myself that I don’t care about their politics and pols in this country are killing me. Most likely 6 months after I get there I’ll hate them too.

  55. 55.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Dennis SGMM: This whole episode takes much farther my effort from this week’s meme-sandbox to call the debt ceiling deal “rebuilding the American credit score.” S&P is literally saying that the gov’t needs to shore up its accounts before its borrowing terms will be restored to good order. So I think you’re right that this is bad for the chances of stimulus spending in the form of borrowing more money (as opposed to reallocating other money, which might still be possible, hopefully). But politically it lines up very neatly with the deficit-hawk Democrat view, adopted by Obama — whose degree of sincere belief I’ll leave up to everyone individually to determine — that the “bipartisan,” “balanced” approach is what needs to be done for debt/deficit reduction.

  56. 56.

    chris

    You mothafuckas be snarkling!! (sorry someone was trying to say snorkling….and it came out..and well…i just had to…..) Carry on.

  59. 59.

    Dennis SGMM

    @Helen:
    A few decades ago I was offered a very sweet deal to emigrate to Australia. My best buddy from the Navy had already done so and he was loving it. I was single and there was nothing really holding me here. In the end I declined the offer and stayed in the U.S. I’ve never regretted that decision until now.

  60. 60.

    FlipYrWhig

    @ericblair:

    Cynical little me, my question is who’s behind the S&P downgrade.

    I thought the same thing. It’s a very Main Street Republican / Deficit Hawk (or Peacock) Democrat intervention into the process — which certainly smacks of the big money boyz pulling the chain. And we’ve been wondering if or when that would happen…

  61. 61.

    JenJen

    Our esteemed blogmaster’s Twitter feed is outta control tonight. It’s completely awesome. Weirdly, I don’t remember laughing this hard during the last global economic meltdown.

  62. 62.

    dww44

    @WereBear: Unfortunately, I happen to think that a great many of the Republicans over and above the 1/4 official TP’s in the house have either internalized the Tea Party economic misbeliefs or are so frightened of being primaried that they don’t have the guts to move towards policy sanity. Only if the money pipelines dry up will they turn towards sanity.

    O/T at the top of the list of things I would be thrilled about if Republicans lost the house in 2012 is that I won’t have to see so much of Eric Cantor on my teevee.

    … and did anyone see the extended Rachel Maddow show this evening? At the end of it, in her Dept of Corrections segment, she showed tapes from Limbaugh’s broadcasts this week highlighting his continuing racist slurs about the First Family. For the first time, I actually wished a person to be struck dead and said aloud that the country and the world would be a far better place without him.

  63. 63.

    Jebediah

    @ChrisNYC:
    So what is Koch Suckerson worried about? That the country won’t be destroyed? There will always be wingnut welfare for a skilled shitlicker; he has little to fear, career-wise.
    Unless he fears getting a new, pike-mounted head. Is RedState HQ angry-mob-proof?

  64. 64.

    slag

    Actually, I’m pretty sure this is all liberals’ fault for not calling enough congresspeople. The Tea Party Republicans are clearly just innocent victims here.

    Clowns to the right of me; jokers to the right also, too.

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