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This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

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85Comments

  3. 3.

    Dr. Squid

    He did actually vote against the first Catfood Commission nonrecommendations. Bad for his state, ja.

  5. 5.

    jwb

    Since I doubt that bitching about Baucus on a blog will help sway his vote on the super committee, it seems like we might do better to focus on concrete actions that we can take. Any ideas?

  8. 8.

    JPL

    He did actually vote against the first Catfood Commission nonrecommendations. Bad for his state, ja.

    I didn’t know this and I’m pleased that you pointed out how progressive he is.
    Unfortunately he has not voted for a progressive bill since then so he’s on his one. Good luck with that

  10. 10.

    Baud

    Baucus strikes me as someone who is willing to make deals, but not necessarily a push over. I also don’t see him as someone who will go off on his own without any other Democrats. But who knows.

  11. 11.

    PeakVT

    So the dream team of Merkley/Franken/Durbin wasn’t picked? (Sanders/Brown/Whitehouse might be better but they’re all up for re-election.) Color me surprised.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    My theory is tha the Democrats came out with their list first – not loaded with progressives and obviously a group where one could imagine at least one person siding with the Rs.

    If they waited for the Rs to post their list – surely all rabid anti-revenue folks, then the Ds would have looked dumb if they had chosen a group that might actually bargain AND they would have demonstrated that they are part of the problem if they had matched partisanship levels to that of the R members.

    I think the Democrats are playing to the longer view, hopig to be able to use the pressure of S&P to vilify the Rs if they won’t compromise. Which they surely won’t.

    That’s my two cents anyway, worth exactly what you paid for it.

  18. 18.

    aisce

    @ suffern ace

    what happens if there’s no agreement? the white house, senior house republicans and diane feinstein freak the fuck out and have to face some very, very displeased representatives from raytheon, lockheed, and the pentagon.

    so we’ll just see.

  19. 19.

    Sleeper

    Hooray! That means President Obama will get his super awesome Grand Bargain after all. Three cheers for the adults in the room!

  20. 20.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @Anya:

    Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

    I don’t know. Baucus can do the right thing occasionally. From what I’ve read, all this teabagger crap isn’t proving very popular in Montana (Rehberg was one of 4 GOP reps who voted against the Ryan Plan, only because he didn’t want it to come back to bite him in the Senate race), and Schweitzer, the governor, is a good guy, although I don’t know how much effect that has on the Senate. It seems like there’s definitely some factors pushing on Baucus not to bend over for the GOP, we’ll just see if they’re stronger than the opposing factors.

  21. 21.

    NobodySpecial

    Wonder if Reid made the list all on his own or who he consulted with to make that list?

    EDIT – and any fool who believes in Baucus standing up for Democratic Party principles after the healthcare fight needs their heads reexamined.

  22. 22.

    Suffern ace

    So we run the autocut macro if the committee fails, if the congress fails and/or if the president vetoes and the veto isn’t over ridden?

  23. 23.

    FormerSwingVoter

    @Suffern ace: Supposedly we’ll also allow the Bush cuts to expire – all of them, since extending the middle class ones would never pass without the upper-income ones as well.

    I’m… skeptical, but not by a large margin.

  24. 24.

    hamletta

    Baucus may be a conservo-Dem, but he’s still a Dem. He led the fight against Bush’s Social Security privatization nonsense.

    Don’t forget that up until the mid-’90s, SSI and Medicare were sacred even to Republicans. There was a consensus that elderly people shouldn’t live in penury.

    A long-serving Dem, even if he’s conservative, isn’t going to be for dismantling the entire safety net.

    I think he’s a good choice. He’s got a lot of pull.

  25. 25.

    Smiling Mortician

    @Zam:

    Man I can’t wait to have a bunch of assholes from tiny ass states tell me what to do.

    And this will be a new thing how, exactly?

  26. 26.

    Ira-NY

    Does anyone consider it a virtue to reflect on breaking news before raging about this, that or the other damn thing in response to it.

  27. 27.

    Emma

    Jesus H Felonious Christ. Another nervous breakdown by democrats. Can we just schedule them on Friday afternoons, followed by drinking party until we all pass out?

    (edit) even the ACLU rates him at 60% in his voting record. And he has a 74% pro-business record, and right now, business is PISSED at the Republicans.

  28. 28.

    Anya

    @Spaghetti Lee: If Baucus is retiring then being called a tax and spend democrat will not have the same impact. I think he believes that we need a revenue increase, so he will vote the right way. Also, does he really want to be known as the Dem who sold out the party.

    Hey, I hear John Cole’s Senator wanted to be in the committee. That guy is seriously diseased. I thought he was a reasonable governor but now he’s trying to out-crazy the wingnuts.

  29. 29.

    OzoneR

    The guy who lead the charge against Bush’s attempt to privatize Social Security is on the super committee.

    Burn him.

  30. 30.

    Joseph Nobles

    @FormerSwingVoter: The baseline that Extra Congress is working from assumes that the Bush tax cuts expire. So any tax reform must first make up that level of tax revenue before beginning to tackle the $1.5 trillion target of the commission. (I think $1.5 trillion, maybe it’s $1.2 T)

  32. 32.

    Swishalicious

    I’m not THRILLED (as for me, that would require Sanders/Franken/Sherrod Brown/even Lautenberg) but this selection could be a lot worse. Also had a friend who used to work for Baucus, said the senator kindof lost his proverbial shit over the entitlements discussion and is firmly for keeping them as they should be.

    Whatever THAT means…

  33. 33.

    Anya

    I just want to know when will we start attacking the other side? I am really getting tired of the daily OMG, ANOTHER DEMOCRAT IS SELLING US OUT, LET’S ALL PANIC!

  34. 34.

    FormerSwingVoter

    @Joseph Nobles: That seems strange. Doesn’t that mean that the Super Extra Deluxe Congress needs to let the Bush tax cuts expire, then? Since extending them or doing overall tax reform would increase the deficit under the baseline they’re being measured against?

  36. 36.

    aisce

    it’s fucking august. isn’t too early to be freaking out about how the super congress will screw us over?

    we’ve barely had any time to mock the very concept of a super congress to begin with. let the stupidity breathe for a moment, savor the institutional inadequacy and inanity. save the handwringing for november.

  37. 37.

    WaterGirl

    @FormerSwingVoter: I don’t think it’s always been like this here. I think some peope have been panicking lately and it’s contagious. This used to be a place to come for reason and wit, and it will be again. This is just a rough patch.

  39. 39.

    Danny

    Ben Nelson, Kent Conrad and Joe Lieberman you say? If that’s true, we’re truly fucked.

    Here’s the view from the other side of the fence (NRO):

    Murray, who is expected to co-chair the committee, serves in Senate leadership and is a senior member on the Senate Budget Committee. She is also currently chairing the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, which is certain to raise a few eyebrows. Baucus chairs the Senate Finance Committee, and served on the Bowles-Simpson deficit commission, but was the only sitting senator to vote against the commission’s final recommendations. Kerry is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

    Poshitico:

    Reid and Pelosi had been considering whether to install candidates who will draw a hard-line against deep entitlement cuts, particularly if Republicans don’t bend on new taxes. The Democratic leaders want loyalists who won’t give the panel majority support for a cuts-only approach, which could target popular programs like Medicare and Social Security.

    “The number one critiera should be someone who fights for revenues and if Republicans continue to rule out revenues, then the Democrats have to play proper defense in response,” said a senior Democratic aide.

    In an email sent to her colleagues Monday evening, Pelosi said her caucus was committed to “protecting” Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security – and said that the new panel should deliberate in public settings so that it achieves a “balanced” approach to deficit reduction.

  42. 42.

    LosGatosCA

    @NobodySpecial:

    FTW

    Max can be counted on the stall the whole process with bipartisan negotiations at the worst possible moment, let the Republicans demonize any reasonable alternative and then withdraw from the process once they have inflicted enough damage while the Democrats hold their fire in the interest of being all bipartisany.

    And then – new hostage crisis requires Max to take the fall for Obama in getting the Grand Bargain to a vote.

    We’re all fucked. Used to be a pretense of a ray of possible hope that we weren’t. Now, just bend over and take it.

    WTF.

  43. 43.

    Lolis

    Durbin voted in favor of the Bowles crapfest while Baucus voted against it. Durbin has been very unimpressive lately and he is from a blue state. Maybe Baucus will suck for us, but Durbin most certainly would have too.

  44. 44.

    Jenny

    If you don’t like Max Baucus, then don’t whine, organize some protests at his town hall meetings this August. Find out where he lives in Washington DC and camp out on his lawn.

    Sitting around and bitching doesn’t solve anything.

  45. 45.

    BombIranForChrist

    Well, remember, no matter how badly we get screwed by Dem’s, we have to vote for them or John will call us bad names.

  48. 48.

    boss bitch

    Max Baucus said, “Not On My Watch” when it came to the Ryan Plan.

    I’m just sayin’.

    Seriously, I’m just very happy Joe Manchin is not on it. He would def be the +1

  51. 51.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @BombIranForChrist: Vote for whomever you want. Have you found a third party candidate who has a reasonable chance of winning? Are you going to vote Republican? Is it your intention to teach Democrats a lesson by withholding your vote?

  53. 53.

    Marc

    The precise composition of this committee isn’t relevant to much of anything. It’ll be between Obama and the Republicans again.

  54. 54.

    Joseph Nobles

    @FormerSwingVoter: Any meaningful tax reform would negate the approaching expiration of the Bush tax cuts. So if any Kool Kids Kommittee tax reforms produced less revenues than the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, the difference would have to be made up by the KKK in other tax hikes (excise taxes, etc.) or more spending cuts. Otherwise, the triggers will activate.

    So, yes, it might be prudent for the committee to just avoid tax reform and let the Bush tax cuts expire. Not going to happen, of course.

  56. 56.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    OK, did anyone else think of Doctor Who when they saw this title? And where Jack got his ray gun?

  57. 57.

    Cat Lady

    Wait, does this pre-emptive freak out mean that emoprogs admit that maybe blaming Obama for not trying hard enough to get their progressive pony health care bill past the Nelsons and Baucuses and Liebermans and Landrieus of the Senate is stupid? Because it is, and they are.

  58. 58.

    hamletta

    @Lolis: Don’t you know how votes are traded?

    The deal with the Catfood Commission was that nothing was binding unless it got a majority vote. It didn’t.

    Max Baucus, the conservadem, voted against, while Dick Durbin, the bleeding-heart librul, voted for, making a statement that he didn’t like the conclusions, but would take them as a starting point, kinda like the 1967 Israeli borders.

    If you live in Illinois, you’ve got a really great senator. I envy you. I live in TN, and Lamar! who used to be a sane, goo-goo, moderate Republican has gone full wingnut, because that’s the way the wind’s blowing down here.

    It’s horrifying to see someone who was a decent governor and cabinet official bend over like a $2 whore.

  59. 59.

    Danny

    @Cat Lady:

    Good catch. Max Baucus is provably more progressive than Obama since Baucus wanted a public option and Obama didnt (or so they say).

  60. 60.

    tBone

    @eemom:

    No shit. DougJ is posting heartfelt stream-of-consciousness emo thumbsuckers, and level-headed Tim F is FREAKING THE FUCK OUT, MAN.

    Luckily John is as irascible as ever, so there’s something familiar to hold on to in these turbulent times.

  63. 63.

    Dungheap

    @boss bitch:

    Baucus’s statement on the Ryan Proposal:

    “I won’t stand by and let the House end Medicare and hand our seniors’ and retired military service members health over to private insurance companies. Our parents, grandparents, and military retirees worked hard all their lives to care for us, and they paid into Medicare to take care of them when they need it most” said Baucus, chair of the Senate Finance committee, which oversees the Medicare program. “We need to reduce our debt by attacking Medicare fraud and cutting insurance profits – not by cutting benefits and shifting costs onto seniors like the House plan does. The House plan means fewer benefits for seniors and military retirees and higher profits for insurance company CEOs. It’s wrong, and it won’t happen. Not on my watch.“

  64. 64.

    burnspbesq

    @eemom:

    “So Hamsher is collecting testicles over HERE now?”

    She can start with Steve Inskeep’s, if she can get them away from Barney Frank. That was the awesomest beat-down in the history of “Morning Edition.”

  65. 65.

    Danny

    TPM: A BIG chunk of Republican votes just came in from Waukesha County. Big pick up for Darling (R). That will put Darling into a clear lead and then it’s going to be down to remaining votes in Milwaukee.

  66. 66.

    Suffern ace

    I think this is the first thread all week where I’ve felt a little relief after reading yalls comments than before. I thought Baucus was a right negotiating stooge during hcr. But I’m feeling better about him being on the com now.

  68. 68.

    Nutella

    Speaking of cat food, a study on the effect of austerity in Europe from 1919-2009. Demonstrations and riots are more common. Hoocoodanode?

  70. 70.

    Caz

    There is no choice but to reform entitlements, whether you, Obama, Pelosi, and Reid like it or not. Without entitlement reform, our country will be Greece in a decade or two.

    So why do you cry foul every time the R’s offer up some way to reform SS and/or medicare?? We all know it has to be tackled at some point soon, so why don’t the progressives in Washington just start working with the the R’s on a plan for reform instead of just opposing it outright at every turn??

    You really think this recent debt ceiling deal does anything?? 20 billion dollars of cuts, leave SS/medicare on autopilot, add 2 trillion dollars to the debt, and keep increasing spending for the forseeable future.

    And it’s the tea party’s fault we were downgraded. Riiiiiiight.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @Caz:

    So why do you cry foul every time the R’s offer up some way to reform SS and/or medicare??

    Because all of your ideas are fucking stupid. Really, you thought the Ryan “let’s increase the deficit and give Grandma a voucher” Plan was brilliant?

    One of the big results of PPACA, if implemented as written, is that it will slash Medicare costs without damaging access. This is, of course, why Republicans have fought it tooth and nail — can’t let those poor suckers who paid their money into the system for decades think they’re actually owed something for their money, now can we?

    And if we raised the salary cap on the FICA tax from $106K to $250K, that would solve the “problem” with Social Security permanently, but we can’t force more taxes on those poor, struggling $250K earners, can we? How would they ever be able to afford that second vacation home?

  72. 72.

    Yutsano

    @Mnemosyne: Give him what he wants Mnem. Allow Medicare Part D to negotiate drug prices just like the VA does. He gets his entitlement reform and Medicare saves a shit ton of money. Your move conservatard.

  73. 73.

    LosGatosCA

    @Jenny:

    Millions in the streets pre-emptively protesting the Iraqi War didn’t do anything.

    Not even having more people vote for Al Gore made a difference.

    I’m not looking for politics to provide any thing of value for me, my family, or even my country.

    Looking to other venues for fulfillment and just writing off politics in America as a lost cause.

  74. 74.

    Arundel

    Dumb but honest question: How and why did something called a “Super Congress” or “Super Comittee” manage to invent and make itself part of the United States political and governing process overnight?

    See, a “Supercongress” was not covered in my “Schoolhouse Rock” videos as a kid. What in the hell is this curious new invention that was created overnight without a fucking peep allowed from the populace?

    I’m dead serious- as dysfunctional and damaged as Congress has been in the nation’s history, it’s generally done the job. A new “SuperCongress” strikes me as bizarre, even more elitist and aristo and prone to corrupt influence, and somewhat?? without any precedent. Help me out here: we’re reducing our decision-making body to a panel of TWELVE now? How is that not a further concentration of manipulable power? What in the fuck is a Supercongress, and why is this seemingly an unquestioned thing? What the hell is going on, with this?

    Do we need to start revising our Civics textbooks now, about this political creature and body that was created literally last week, and that no one is fucking questioning? A “supercongress”??? Sounds like some Hollywood spin, sounds like concentration of power. And this stunt and gimmick is unquestioned. Unbelievable. Someone talk me down from the ledge here, apparently representative democracy in America wasn’t enough after 200 years, they had to invent a thing called a “Supercongress” without asking us.

    Am I being dumb, alarmist? Who decides this, and are you comfortable with this “Supercongress” concept being foisted on you without explanation? I sure as fuck am not. We have a Congress. The House, the Senate. The establishment of something called a “SuperCongress” without a fucking peep from anyone frankly blows my mind , how far we’re gone.

  75. 75.

    Lysana

    @Arundel: Anything they propose has to survive floor vote and a signature. The reason it was created was to make sure the rest of Congress had more time to focus on everything else.

    So breathe.

  76. 76.

    TenguPhule

    So why do you cry foul every time the R’s offer up some way to reform SS and/or medicare??

    Because ‘reform’ is a thinly disguised dogwhistle for “destroy in all but name and fuck the poor bastards who thought it was for them”.

    Here’s your reform, accept higher taxes on the rich. Or find yourself up against a wall when the revolution comes.

  79. 79.

    Trurl

    Because ‘reform’ is a thinly disguised dogwhistle for “destroy in all but name and fuck the poor bastards who thought it was for them”.

    Except when Obama says it. Then it’s a sincere and well-intentioned attempt to strengthen those programs for the future. Because he’s a decent man who sides with the little guy.

    Ain’t that right, ABL?

  80. 80.

    MomSense

    Ok, I’m sure someone already pointed this out but I think it is a good idea to have the staff of the Senate Finance Committee involved in the process. Also, too at some point you will need to have enough votes to pass their recommendations so you might as well bring Baucus in from the beginning. Given the demographics of his state, I really don’t think this is cause for worry.

    My bias in choosing people would be that they know the ins and outs, nitty gritty of the budget so there would be less chance of being hoodwinked. I’m pleased with Reid’s picks.

  81. 81.

    MomSense

    @Suffern Ace

    I would have preferred a public option with rates tied to Medicare be in the Senate Finance version of HCR but it didn’t have the votes to make it out of committee and it didn’t have the votes in the Senate. As you may recall the version of the public option that made it through the House was the less “robust” meaning there weren’t enough votes in the House to tie the public option rates to Medicare even.

    Baucus’ committee had a different charge from the other 3 committees tasked with healthcare reform. They had to make sure that it was deficit neutral and that it didn’t add to the debt. They had to “pay” for reform. All in all, they did pretty well. And like all the other legislation that created the social safety net, the ACA enshrines in law the goal of providing health care for all even though it doesn’t complete the goal. We now have our foot in the door and we will continue to pull more people in until that door is wide open for everyone. It is called progress.

  82. 82.

    liberal

    @Caz:

    So why do you cry foul every time the R’s offer up some way to reform SS and/or medicare??

    As for SS, because unlike certain right-wing trolls we know that SS isn’t contributing a dime to the deficit?

  84. 84.

    MomSense

    @59 Baucus definitely did not want the public option. I know that for a fact. And PBO wanted it but after the version of the public option that the House passed, it wasn’t worth holding out for.

    Did anyone here read all the limitations that were placed onto the public option until it was pretty insignificant?

    Having the exchanges, combined with minimum % spent on actual health care services, some new regulations, and a patients bill of rights on steroids was a good law that will get better if we can stop freaking out and being depressed about accomplishments so that we can elect Dems in 2012. Man, the Dems would have been promoting the crap out of just the weak Patients Bill of Rights had Clinton actually managed to pass it.

    I swear that Dems/progressives/liberals–whatever you want to call the people who are more to the left–spent so much time protesting and complaining while Bush was President that they forgot how to get behind governing. It is sad and destructive. Call me crazy, but making progress used to be the goal.

  85. 85.

    Cris (without an H)

    @Anya: I have a feeling Baucus will not seek re-election so, he might vote his conscience.

    Why do you have that feeling?

    @Spaghetti Lee: From what I’ve read, all this teabagger crap isn’t proving very popular in Montana

    I’d like to see your sources on that too. The GOP majority in the two state legislative houses showed no qualms about pandering to Teabagger nonsense this last session.

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