Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Fight them, without becoming them!

We will not go back.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Giving up is unforgivable.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

I would gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today.

To the privileged, equality seems like oppression.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

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Reader Interactions

188Comments

  1. 1.

    cleek

    fuck the GOP.
    they mean nothing to me.
    if there’s a fire nearby.
    hope they all crawl in and fry.

    la dee da.

    Team Sasha is pissed.

  2. 2.

    Martin

    Just got back from an hour ride, but the gist seems to be that they’re all completely fucking bonkers. Except for Huntsman, who’ll likely be forced out of the race by tomorrow.

  3. 3.

    hueyplong

    That half hour or so on foreign policy was hilarious. Fox totally lost control of the message, and no one knew just how to tell Ron Paul to shut up.

    Bachmann’s short commentary on the subject gave Joe Stalin’s corpse a boner.

  6. 6.

    Yutsano

    We less than three you too big guy.

    Still at work, waiting on the next idiot. And there she is.

  7. 7.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Whatever. I’ve been watching this Crazy Train for 90 minutes and I’m ready to talk about bread now.

  8. 8.

    dmsilev

    I watched about 45 or so minutes of it and then had enough. Did manage to finish tomorrow’s NYT crossword though, so the evening hasn’t been a total loss.

  9. 9.

    Mark S.

    Not watching it but reading this Guardian live blogging. For those watching it, is Pawlenty really as pathetic as he comes across on the live blog? It sounds like he got his lunch eaten by Bachmann and Romney pretty much laughed in his face.

  10. 10.

    Steeplejack

    @Cole:

    I just realized I neglected you all.

    We’re just like Tunch–sitting out in the torrential rain, patiently waiting for you to remember to let us in.

  11. 11.

    Bruce S

    oops – non-debate generic “open-thread” comment withdrawn.

    On the debate, I wasn’t aware there actually was any debate amongst the GOP, beyond who can give Grover better BJs.

  12. 12.

    Martin

    And every time I see Bachmann in a lineup like this, I’m shocked at how short she is. In the usual news headshots she appears to be average female height and then she stands next to these other yahoos and she’s almost a foot shorter.

  17. 17.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Mark S.:

    Not watching it but reading this Guardian live blogging. For those watching it, is Pawlenty really as pathetic as he comes across on the live blog? It sounds like he got his lunch eaten by Bachmann and Romney pretty much laughed in his face.

    He’s gotten some digs in, at least towards Bachmann. He’s gotta keep the VP option open with Romney so he needs to eat a little crow there.

  19. 19.

    jl

    Now, little Johnny G. Cole, just because Politico hacks watch the insane GOP debate doesn’t mean Johnny Cole has to watch the insane GOP debate.

    Cole’s mom needs to call him on a daily basis and give him the advice of the day.

  20. 20.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Mark S.:

    I keep forgetting Newt’s still in the race.

    And Newt keeps forgetting Reagan’s presidency was over 20 years ago.

  21. 21.

    BombIranForChrist

    I’m going to hit the rye just so i can read about the debate. I can’t believe you’re actually watching it. It’s like staring at the sun. A very stupid and depressing sun.

  22. 22.

    hilts

    @Martin:

    And every time I see Bachmann in a lineup like this, I’m shocked at how short she is.

    Michele Bachmann is an economy size package of batshit crazy.

  25. 25.

    Arm The Homeless (formerly Third Eye Open)

    Can someone tell me what the hell Cain was rambling about when he got caught-up on the question about Mitten’s Mormoness?

    Also, too, why was Bachmann allowed to dig through David Bowe’s closet? It’s either that, or she is playing the Tin-Man during dinner theater following the debate.

  26. 26.

    jl

    Though, Josh Marshall says that the Mighty TPaw, America Saving Super Hero is back. Maybe I should watch it.

    But, naw. Even watching the trainwreck clips later will make me want to drink.

  27. 27.

    Chris

    @hueyplong:

    That half hour or so on foreign policy was hilarious. Fox totally lost control of the message, and no one knew just how to tell Ron Paul to shut up.

    Okay, now I’m actually curious. If it’s not too much trouble for someone to briefly summarize, what happened?

  30. 30.

    fhtagn

    Don’t underestimate Huntsman’s gibbering lunacy. He’s now talking about the EPA’s “reign of terror”. This is supposedly why he created 10,000 overseas jobs and only 2000 in the US.

  32. 32.

    jl

    From TPM liveblog:

    ” 10:24 PM: I think Cain’s plan to pull the price of oil so low it puts the squeeze on Iran may lack certain realism. ”

    Newt didn’t get there first on that idea?

    Poor Newt, getting old and slow, I guess.

  34. 34.

    Hal

    @Arm The Homeless (formerly Third Eye Open):

    Can someone tell me what the hell Cain was rambling about when he got caught-up on the question about Mitten’s Mormoness?

    Cain is still in this? Forgot about him, Newt and Palin. And, I doubt Herman knows what the hell he’s talking about, either.

    PS, no “everyone thought Reagan was nuts too, and look where he ended up” comments yet?

  36. 36.

    Jenny

    Bachmann says she has “an unrivalled record when it comes to man-woman marriage”

    I thought Newt was the record holder with three marriages.

  37. 37.

    Mark S.

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    He’s gotta keep the VP option open with Romney so he needs to eat a little crow there.

    I guess he said something about mowing Mitt’s lawn. That’s probably the best job Mitt will offer him, since Mitt will need a teabagger or religious nut for his VP to get the crazies to come out for him.

  38. 38.

    fhtagn

    @PeakVT:

    It’s quicker to stand on your head and let the good stuff flow down. Or so trickle-down economics leads me to believe.

  39. 39.

    Arm The Homeless (formerly Third Eye Open)

    @Mark S.: Can she really claim that with NEWT! standing there? Or, is it supposed to be an argument for ‘quality over quantity’?

    EDIT: I see Jenny got there first

  43. 43.

    Ron

    So far from the part I’ve watched, my conclusion is they are all morons except for Ron Paul, and he’s batshit crazy.

  45. 45.

    JCT

    @Ron: Scary fucking morons. They make Reagan look like Stieglitz. Holy cow, if one of these nutcases managed to win…

  48. 48.

    Omnes Omnibus

    From the Guardian:

    Newt Gingrich is getting increasingly tedious. He stitches together various words and phrases until he thinks they sound important, then he stops, as if he’s made a point.

    I say, getting?

  50. 50.

    Jeffro

    there has been so much crazy it’s hard to keep track, BUT:

    – Gingrich, Cain, and Santorum are still the boutique candidates that will have to GTFO shortly
    – Bachman ate Pawlenty’s lunch (with the hearty encouragement of the FOX moderators, which is telling)
    – Huntsman just sucks and frankly, he won’t be VP in 2012 or even running seriously in 2016

  51. 51.

    The Dangerman

    @xyzxyzxyz:

    You could be watching the Seahawks on ESPN. We’re in for a long season.

    I feel for Seattle fans; I would be far from shocked if Seattle ran the table the wrong way. But, that wins them Andrew Luck.

  53. 53.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Except for the retarded EPA comment, Huntsman sounded like The White Obama tonight. Not sure who that hurts more.

  54. 54.

    hilts

    @Ron:

    My conclusion is they are all morons except for Ron Paul, and he’s batshit crazy.

    This debate makes Saturday Night Live, The Daily Show, and The Colbert Report obsolete. No team of comedy writers can possibly out-parody or out-satire this rogues’ gallery of knuckleheads and numbskulls.

  55. 55.

    The Dangerman

    Can someone explain to me what private unemployment insurance (a Romney answer) look like?

  56. 56.

    themanintheguyfawkesmask

    I have to say that we need to water these plants, because outside of Huntsman, the lot of them sound pretty pathetic.

  58. 58.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Damn, I always forget how much Republicans love America when they’re trying to destroy the economy, eliminate the safety net and turn us into a third world banana republic.

    Then they tell us how much they love America in their closing statements and I remember again.

  59. 59.

    fhtagn

    @The Dangerman:

    It looks radical but moderate, ingenious but commonsensical, like a magic unicorn but handcrafted with a titanium spine. Most important of all, it does not look like Obama’s magic unicorn.

    Does that help?

  60. 60.

    Hunter Gathers

    At the end of this spectacular clusterfuck, screenwriting credits should go to Hunter S. Thompson, Aldous Huxley, William Burroughs and an absolute shit-ton of crack cocaine.

  61. 61.

    Arm The Homeless (formerly Third Eye Open)

    @fhtagn:

    Quantity has a quality of its own.

    New advertising campaign for Rush Limbaugh’s line of male brassieres?

    @fhtagn: As a life-long Dolphins fan, I would like to thank the foozeball gawds for the NFC West and the Browns, may they always push down the curve

  63. 63.

    OGLiberal

    Is anybody else scared shitless of a Perry candidacy? And for all the reasons Cole & DougJ mentioned. (even though they think a Perry nomination would help Obama) Everybody knows Mittens is a fake but he seemed the only reasonable candidate in the face of the crazy lady, boring as cardboard Tim, and the crazy black guy, etc. The media, though, will turn Perry into “everyman”. We’ll be right back to the “who would you rather hang out with at the BBQ” bullshit. Matthews will spend hours talking about how manly he is. If Palin was Halperin’s wet dream, Perry is his auto-erotic orgasm. Whether we like it or not these douchebags set the narrative…and the narrative is all our short-attention span nation has the patience for. Yeah, he’s another crazy conservative Texan and didn’t we just go through that pain 4-years ago. When I’m gone for 20-minutes my dog thinks I’ve been gone for 5-years. That’s similar to the political memory of most Americans. But he’s a secessionist! How many of our fellow citizens even know that’s a bad thing…or even know what it means?

    The silver lining of the crazy that is the GOP primary field is that there is no way Sarah enters this race. All of the folks already in have stolen her niches and most of them have much more experience they can point to. (eg – Perry is insane but he’s a 3-term governor) I think Obama would destroy her no matter what but I just can’t handle a year’s worth of media Palin obsession. (although even if she doesn’t run Halperin will still post about her whenever she farts on Facebook)

    The Gore-ing of Obama – he’s too cerebral, he doesn’t emote, he’s out of touch, he’s not like “us” – will begin as soon as Perry becomes the clear frontrunner…and that should be soon. Romney doesn’t have that advantage over Obama because nobody likes him. He’s not manly, he’s not authentic, he doesn’t have a real American accent, he tries to be insane but he can’t pull it off, etc.

    Does it hurt that he looks like the dickhead character Peter Gallagher played in “American Beauty”? Nope. Americans buy houses from those assholes and they also elect them to the highest offices of our government.

  64. 64.

    beltane

    @The Dangerman: It means you get fired and then live off whatever savings you have until relocate to a cardboard box under a highway overpass.

    This debate could have used more Giuliani. 9/11 was nowhere near as terrifying as these people. Also could have used Huckabee’s gravitas.

  67. 67.

    fhtagn

    @OGLiberal:

    No, because Perry has a lot of skeletons in the closet, is a slimy God-bothering thug and he doesn’t even poll that well in Texas, which he manages to lose to Obama. Running Perry is about as helpful to the GOP as offering up Dubya for a third term.

  68. 68.

    JGabriel

    @fhtagn:

    Pat Caddell looks like a child-molesting druid who has been forcibly stuffed into a suit.

    Druid?

    Just because Caddell has a beard doesn’t mean he’s druidic. Satanic Minion would be far more accurate than druid in that sentence.

    I mean, hell, fhtagn, what did the pagans ever do to you to deserve a comparison to Caddell?

    .

  71. 71.

    Chris

    @OGLiberal:

    Everybody knows Mittens is a fake but he seemed the only reasonable candidate in the face of the crazy lady, boring as cardboard Tim, and the crazy black guy, etc. The media, though, will turn Perry into “everyman”.

    Don’t want to say “scared shitless,” but I know what you mean. Seems pretty clear that he was waiting in order to allow all the other candidates to beat each other up in the circus freak show this primary has been so far, so that he could swoop in as the reasonable and responsible but still conservative Everyman candidate, as you said.

  72. 72.

    Larkspur

    OMG Samantha Bee, John Oliver, Wyatt Cenac and all the rest of my playmates just got sucked into a vortex! Okay, cover me, I’m going in after them and then

  73. 73.

    fhtagn

    @JGabriel:

    Dude, I was trying to keep up with the live debate. Anyway, just look at that beard and those eyebrows. I stick with druid, if I am going to use an easily recognizable stereotype. Sorry to any actual druids, but y’all shouldn’t be godless pagans with heathen orgies of incredibly tempting perversity featuring colossally-bosomed young ladies. Unless you invite me of course.

  74. 74.

    JGabriel

    @PeakVT:

    Fox’s CGI shop will have them all sounding like the geniuses by 8 AM.

    I think you overestimate the abilities of Fox’s CGI shop. Take Hannity (please) — he certainly doesn’t sound like a genius, though you know that pudgy dough face is all CGI.

    .

  75. 75.

    The Dangerman

    @beltane:

    It means you get fired and then live off whatever savings you have…

    But Romney said that he would pass a bill that would be some form of private accounts; since when would private savings require any federal action (OK, I know his answer was bullshit, but … it was Grade B Bullshit, it doesn’t even come close to making any sense, much like the rest of the debate).

  77. 77.

    fhtagn

    @JGabriel:

    Give them some credit. You can hardly see the blood-funnel amid the liquid dough that currently acts as Hannity’s facial facade.

  78. 78.

    themanintheguyfawkesmask

    I don’t know if anyone else is watching the Fox News livestream, but that has to be the most gawdawful pundit panel in history.

  79. 79.

    Hunter Gathers

    The Gore-ing of Obama – he’s too cerebral, he doesn’t emote, he’s out of touch, he’s not like “us”

    Where the fuck have you been the past 3+ years? Living under a rock on one of Jupiter’s moons? They’ve been screaming that shit 24/7/365.

    You’re scared of the Gun Totin’ Texas-Sized Bag o’ Hair better known as Rick ‘Succession Gives Me A Stiffy’ Perry? Dubya V.2.0? Christ, I think Obama has this thing all wrapped up after tonight, if Rick Fucking Perry is going to be their white knight. Good freaking God.

  82. 82.

    Arm The Homeless (formerly Third Eye Open)

    @fhtagn: I have an uncontrollable urge to spit when anyone mentions the Bills. But you’re absolutely correct.

    But things have been looking up for us. At least now when smarmy, wagon-jumping Pats fans decide to get all huffy, I just remind them they are cheating bastages. It makes me feel better, too!

    My kingdom for a QB who isn’t older than Methuselah, or only good as bait in the Wild-Cat.

  85. 85.

    Midnight Marauder

    @OGLiberal:

    Is anybody else scared shitless of a Perry candidacy?

    There is no reason to be afraid of that asshole. None.

    His presidential campaign will be one of the greatest gifts the liberal agenda ever got in this country.

  87. 87.

    The Dangerman

    I know shit about Rick Perry (other than he has GREAT hair)…

    …but, after tonight, it looks like Bachmann will win the straw poll (it sure as hell won’t be Romney and who else is even remotely possible? Perhaps Paul, didn’t he take it last time?)

  88. 88.

    fhtagn

    @Justin Morton:

    Dear succulently fleshy Baby Jesus, if you do not make Michelle Bachmann the GOP nominee, I shall be compelled to remember where I put the roasting spit and the good garlic.

  90. 90.

    themanintheguyfawkesmask

    @Justin Morton:

    Dear eight pound, six ounce baby Jesus: Please let Michelle Bachman win the Republican Nomination. Humbly yours. – Amen.

    I lol’d

  92. 92.

    OGLiberal

    @Hunter Gathers:

    You’re scared of the Gun Totin’ Texas-Sized Bag o’ Hair better known as Rick ‘Succession Gives Me A Stiffy’ Perry? Dubya V.2.0? Christ

    I think a lot of thought the same thing in 2000 and 2004. Version 1.0 won twice. (well, once) That says a lot.

  93. 93.

    fhtagn

    Well, amid the frothing, belching and vomiting, I thought Bachmann prevailed and that the invisible hand was slowly closing on Romney’s testicles. Gingrich, Pawlenty, Cain, Santorum, Huntsman are for the birds, but that’s been true for a long time. Ron Paul is actually sane on foreign policy, but sounds like a very confused old man half the time.

  97. 97.

    brettvk

    @fhtagn: “Pat Caddell looks like a child-molesting druid who has been forcibly stuffed into a suit.”

    FSM bless you for this comment, sir or madam.

  98. 98.

    Dennis SGMM

    @Chris:

    Seems pretty clear that he was waiting in order to allow all the other candidates to beat each other up in the circus freak show this primary has been so far…

    This. While reading the posts above it came to me that the real candidate was sitting this one out. That means Perry. He already has the fundies in the bag and his lunatic threats of secession will endear him to the baggers while being downplayed by the emmessem who will describe him as “passionate about states’ rights.” And let’s not forget jobs. That the jobs created are shit jobs enabled by savaging the environment and assorted give-away-the-store tax incentives will be transmuted by the media into “The Texas Miracle.” Anyone who thinks that Perry can’t be massaged into a real threat by GOP handlers and the horse race obsessed media is whistling past the graveyard.

  99. 99.

    Arm The Homeless (formerly Third Eye Open)

    @fhtagn: If I was that powerful, we wouldn’t have had to watch them get repeatedly trounced by a team I hate more than the Raiders. “America’s Team” my soft, succulent arse.

  104. 104.

    xyzxyzxyz

    @The Dangerman:

    Thank you. Seahawk fans are an tortured bunch, and I struggle daily with reading this blog and knowing it is run by a Steeler’s fan. I’m sure people are asking what the Seahawks have to do with the republican debate. Simple…there are still people in Seattle who think that Rick Mirer was a good quarterback, he was just the victim of a bad situation. I can see republicans in four-plus years after Mittens’ first term saying, “He would have been a great president, if it weren’t for Obama”. We’ll all be wearing barrels provided by our Galtian overloards, of course.

  106. 106.

    brettvk

    @The Dangerman: “Can someone explain to me what private unemployment insurance (a Romney answer) look like?”

    I think it would look a lot like Ryan’s Medicare vouchers, without the vouchers.

  107. 107.

    fhtagn

    @xyzxyzxyz:

    Actually, I think we have to buy the barrels out of our personal savings accounts. On the other hand, we can burn them to keep warm in the long nuclear winters after we go to war with Iran.

  108. 108.

    Chris

    @Dennis SGMM:

    He already has the fundies in the bag and his lunatic threats of secession will endear him to the baggers while being downplayed by the emmessem who will describe him as “passionate about states’ rights.”

    Yeah, nothing says “I love my country” like “I no longer want to be a part of it.”

    That the jobs created are shit jobs enabled by savaging the environment and assorted give-away-the-store tax incentives will be transmuted by the media into “The Texas Miracle.”

    As will the fact that Texas is running a big deficit right now… which, isn’t that contrary to the Essence of Conservative Principles? On the other hand, I’d LOVE to have a beer with him.

  110. 110.

    OGLiberal

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Anyone who thinks that Perry can’t be massaged into a real threat by GOP handlers and the horse race obsessed media is whistling past the graveyard.

    The most dangerous assneck in the mix. Obama may still be able to eke it out against him – I don’t think being a “real American Southerner” helps you in Virginia and NC the way it used to and not sure it ever helped in Ohio or PA – but the media will fluff his ass up and a large percentage of the disengaged, misinformed, American electorate will think he’s just a swell, authentic, strong leader-type, more like “me” than that elitist professor dude in the White House. I mean, look how popular he was in Texas…look how well he did there! And I could have a beer with him!

  112. 112.

    Dennis SGMM

    @The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
    Nope, Thompson never got off the couch and Giuliani was a one-note Samba. Neither had any strong showing of support from the fundies and the baggers didn’t exist in ’08 (Even though they swear that they did). Most voters don’t pay attention to politics until election time; they’ll believe what they’re fed by the media Remember; Bush was a “popular wartime president” in the media long after he wasn’t to anyone else.

  114. 114.

    The Dangerman

    @xyzxyzxyz:

    Seahawk fans are an tortured bunch…

    I’m pitying all Seattle fans right now; I think most of the Mariners are batting near the Mendoza Line (shit, they were batting Adam Kennedy cleanup when I was in town a while back), the Seahawks got an alleged QB in Tavaris Jackson (I mean, come on), and the Sonics are playing in OKC these days. This could be some weird form of Karmic justice for Microsoft, in which case, I call it square.

  116. 116.

    OGLiberal

    @The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Fred was too lazy and uninterested (NRO folks talked him into something he never really wanted to do – TV gigs are much more fun, less stressful, and financially lucrative) and Rudy was never, ever, ever going to win over the GOP base. Perry had neither of these things going against him. Couple base love with Beltway media fawning and an etched in concrete “Obama can’t connect with average voters” meme and you’ve got a dangerous mix.

  117. 117.

    fhtagn

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Moocher? Sir, I tell you now, this will not stand. I bought that barrel myself fair and square out of my private account. Given twenty years of honest employment I have high hopes of purchasing myself, even though this will require me to do without food, soap or reading material.

  118. 118.

    fhtagn

    @OGLiberal:

    Look at the counter argument: how big a majority did Perry ever win in the governor’s race in Texas? How many Americans want Dubya II? How many skeletons are lurking in Rick Perry’s closet? What do the polls say about Perry v Obama?

    I think Perry is less dangerous than Romney in the general.

  119. 119.

    Jenny

    The Trans-Texas Corridor (also known as the NAFTA Superhighway) was first proposed by Texas Governor Rick Perry in 2002.

    Ooops.

  120. 120.

    OGLiberal

    @fhtagn: That’s something only the Paulites will care about – and while loud and insane their numbers aren’t large enough to change anything. The establishment will rally around this guy. The Christianists will do the same and don’t give two shits about the brown-people superhighway stuff. The baggers who aren’t Paulites (that eliminates half of them but there aren’t many baggers to being with) will love the dude, mainly because he’s a Southern guy taking on the uppity negro. The old Southern (mostly former) Dems will rally behind him because he’s one of them. Dude will have a huge number of voters to draw from outside of the crazy 27%.

  124. 124.

    fhtagn

    @OGLiberal:

    I am not so sure about that. I reckon you could find a good number of blue-collar white people who don’t care much for NAFTA, much less a proposed superhighway.

  125. 125.

    Ian

    @Midnight Marauder:

    His presidential campaign will be one of the greatest gifts the liberal agenda ever got in this country

    Well, I wouldn’t necessarily say it helps the liberal agenda, since our POTUS isn’t too concerned with that, but I will take the centrist over the bat **** crazy agenda

  128. 128.

    xyzxyzxyz

    @The Dangerman:

    The Emerald City thanks you. I’ve been living through 47 years of hell. It isn’t cosmic justice for MSFT. It is cosmic justice for pretending that we invented the latte.

    And for the person who was looking for love for the Bills. When Seattle had the superbowl stolen from them, everyone in this city looked at each other and said, “Wow! Imagine how the people of Buffalo feel.” You have our sympathy.

    To push this Seattle narrative further: Obama is Matt Hasselbeck who had moments of glory separated by eons spent running for his life behind a porous offensive line (that’d be democrats in congress). Some (FireDogLake) are calling for Charlie Whitehurst (aka, clipboard Jesus) to come and win the day. But Charlie is only good in the pre-season (see Hillary in the primaries) and would get killed in the regular season (general election). So, all you can do (just like a Seahawk fan) is hope their quarterback sucks more than ours on any given Sunday.

  129. 129.

    OGLiberal

    @fhtagn:

    I think Perry is less dangerous than Romney in the general.

    The wild card here is that the media simply does not like Romney. They just don’t and they never will. That counts for a lot.

    As for Perry’s record in gubernatorial races:

    2002: +18
    2006: +9
    2010: +13

    Take Kinky Friedman’s votes in 2006 and give them to the Dem and take Scott McClellan’s Mom’s votes (she ran as the more conservative candidate) and give them to Perry and he wins by 15. Not exactly tight races.

  131. 131.

    OGLiberal

    @fhtagn: And a Democrat – particularly one portrayed as the second coming of Stalin/Malcolm X/Castro – has an advantage over Perry because of this how? Maybe that might play in the GOP primary (again, my guess is only among the Paulites) but not if he’s the GE nominee.

  132. 132.

    Felanius Kootea

    @brettvk: Because Fox Business Correspondent Charlie Gasparino told me they wouldn’t ;).

    “I talk to a lot of Wall Street guys . . . you know I don’t think a guy from Texas can win again. I just think there’s a Texas taint to it all. And I know the big money on the street in New York, I don’t think they’re going to go for a Texan.”

  133. 133.

    Dennis SGMM

    @Felanius Kootea:
    Why? He’s a Republican and he certainly seems to have done everything he can to allow big business to exploit Texas. If you’re talking about Wall Street, which is to say Big Finance vs Big Energy, then you have a point. I would say that the prospect of dismantling the vestige of FinReg as well as the chance to neuter the CFPB may well turn the tide.

  135. 135.

    fhtagn

    @OGLiberal:

    I don’t see Perry convincing any moderate or undecided voter to back him. Romney might have a chance, but I don’t see Perry getting any significant traction outside the deepish South/mostly pointless small midwestern states. I’d bet on him not taking back North Carolina for one. I just think people will see the Second Coming of George Bush. Moreover, I think the teabaggers are starting their long slide downhill into embarrassing irrelevance again. They’ll be able to bully the GOP for a while in primaries, but they will doom at it national level. They’ll push Perry far enough to the fringe right during the primary that he’ll never be able to escape from that losing box in the general.

  137. 137.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @OGLiberal: You’re right. Obama has no chance in a contest with the juggernaut that is Perry. Come on, everything that one group likes about this crazy fucker is something that pisses off the other elements of the party.

  138. 138.

    Dennis SGMM

    @fhtagn:

    I just think people will see the Second Coming of George Bush.

    If the voters managed to sufficiently forget the Bush years to return a Republican majority to the House in 2010 then I’d say by 2012 they’ll be ready to name an aircraft carrier and three airports after him.

  139. 139.

    The Dangerman

    I’ve been saying for a while that Palin will be their nominee; if Perry wasn’t running, I’d be even MORE sure of that outcome.

    Sarah staying the hell away from the clown car train wreck was, if she does jump in late, a good call.

  140. 140.

    fhtagn

    @Dennis SGMM:

    They returned a GOP majority that pretended to break with Bush on spending, while somehow keeping the War on Terror alive. These are different critters. Voters haven’t forgotten the Bush years or their impact on the economy, as the polls keep telling us.

    More to the point, they did what midterm voters almost always do – voted against the incumbent president’s party. Given how sour the economy was, you could probably have found a constituency for a magical underpants gnome party.

  142. 142.

    Mark S.

    @OGLiberal:

    Texas is a lot more conservative than the rest of the nation, so I don’t think his record there is indicative of how he’ll do in a national race.

    @Felanius Kootea:

    I doubt Wall St. gives a shit that Perry’s a Texan. I do wonder if it’s starting to dawn on them that Teabaggernomics doesn’t actually work.

  143. 143.

    Dennis SGMM

    @fhtagn:
    That the Bush years didn’t render the Republican brand toxic, especially in view of the fact that the Republicans were in no way contrite, gives me pause.

  144. 144.

    Fulcanelli

    @fhtagn:

    @OGLiberal:
    I am not so sure about that. I reckon you could find a good number of blue-collar white people who don’t care much for NAFTA, much less a proposed superhighway.

    Especially one where Mexican truck drivers with no US driver’s license can sail right across the US borders smack through the middle of their beloved Heartland with metric tons of ultra cheap junk goods make with slave labor from various ports o’ call on the Pacific rim.

    That should play well in Texas, Oklahoma and Missoura.

    OTOH, if Perry gets elected that’s about all anybody will be able to afford.

  145. 145.

    Anne Laurie

    @Hunter Gathers:

    At the end of this spectacular clusterfuck, screenwriting credits should go to Hunter S. Thompson, Aldous Huxley, William Burroughs and an absolute shit-ton of crack cocaine.

    LOL. I figured those poor basterds would be spinning in their graves, except Hunter was cremated.

    And in Bachmann’s case, not crack — just powdered methylphenidate, aka Soccer Mom’s Little Helper…

  146. 146.

    fhtagn

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Desperation and a sour economy made people willing to vote for anything but the Democrats. The teabagger nonsense was incoherent bloviation – but it did achieve its aim of rebranding the right-wing away from the tainted GOP label. You’ll notice too that Dubya has been remarkably absent from the discussion in the GOP debates – and for good reason. Once people see Perry as Dubya II, he’s going to find it very hard to escape that unwelcome piece of history.

  147. 147.

    Dennis SGMM

    Maybe I’ve just become too old and too cynical. To me, those who are disparaging the chances of Perry, Palin, Bachmann, whoever, in the general are overlooking the fact that the media/Republican nexus and reality are two non-intersecting domains.

  149. 149.

    fhtagn

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Palin’s a whole different category to Bachmann and Perry when it comes to sheer public dislike of her. Nominate her and Obama wins. Game over.

    Bachmann strikes me as disaster waiting to happen for the GOP. Not that I think the GOP will actually nominate her.

    Perry’s probably the closest to electable of the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party, but he’s walked the crazy line often enough publicly enough to make me think that he’s going to be all hat and no cattle in the long run.

  150. 150.

    Joseph Nobles

    I just saw on The Daily Show that Randy Travis will be in Michele Bachmann’s tent for the Ames Straw Poll. You know, what could one more gay man in denial hurt?

  151. 151.

    hilts

    @The Dangerman:

    I’ve been saying for a while that Palin will be their nominee

    Palin is a coward and a quitter who doesn’t have the guts to run for President. As vile and disgusting as I find each of the candidates who debated tonight, at least none of them is a chickenshit like Queen Sarah. It would be refreshing to see any Republican politician step up to the plate and tell Palin to either get in the damn race already or STFU and stop trying to steal the spotlight from real candidates whenever the mood hits her.

  152. 152.

    Dennis SGMM

    @fhtagn:
    Well, I truly hope that you’re right and I’m wrong. For my part, I still remember Republicans’ constant, and unchallenged by the media, references to “the Clinton recession.” I doubt that the media has become any more insightful than they were then.

  153. 153.

    The Dangerman

    @fhtagn:

    Perry’s probably the closest to electable of the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party…

    Probably; for sure, no one on that stage tonight will be President in 2013. I don’t think any one from that stage will be the candidate in 2012.

    As for Palin, she is unelectable, but her base loves her and the base would be enough to get nominated (see O’Donnell, Christine).

  157. 157.

    The Dangerman

    @Yutsano:

    Palin’s base has a new toy: Bachmann.

    True, but only because she’s the only toy to be played with right now; Palin jumping in ends Bachmann.

  158. 158.

    AlladinsLamp

    Governor Romney, if intelligent life is found elsewhere in the Universe, will they will be Mormon?

  159. 159.

    James E. Powell

    @Dennis SGMM:

    That the Bush years didn’t render the Republican brand toxic, especially in view of the fact that the Republicans were in no way contrite, gives me pause.

    Not to stoke any fires, but the reason that the Republican brand is still the number one brand in politics is because no one, not Obama, not the Democratic leadership, no one other than some bloggers and a handful of cable show hosts who almost no one watches straight out blamed the Republicans and their policies for what happened to the country between 2001-2008.

    The evidence was right there in the form of an economic collapse, a major increase in unemployment, foreclosures, and so on. The case could have been made.

    If Obama does not get re-elected, all the insider books will tell us why that was not done and why the author of the book just knew it was a bad idea to let the Republicans off the hook.

    If, on the other hand, Obama gets re-elected, then by the end of his second term no one will remember or care what happened in 2008-2010. By then, Obama will have ended the ‘wars’ in Iraq and Afghanistan and will have invaded Kenya in order to force its government to provide health care insurance and fire all the teachers.

  160. 160.

    Dennis SGMM

    @James E. Powell:
    That’s a bit harsh. I do remember that the attitude of the media and the pols in the face of the potential collapse was blame free – it was if the economy had been stricken by a rogue asteroid. The strongest language I can recall was Obama’s reference to “the failed policies of the past.”

  163. 163.

    Joel

    @Felanius Kootea: I don’t understand how a detailed understanding of statistics would help you there. The lottery isn’t the Monty Hall or the Birthday problem writ large, it’s semi-random (or should be). You can’t make guesses as to where winning tickets will be distributed based on past outcomes, because that would be a Gambler’s fallacy.

    The only “outing” that would matter is one involving fraud.

    ETA: I see, figuring out the algorithm used to generate those “random” numbers. Well, that would seem to indicate that the state of Texas has some dumbshits running the lottery.

  164. 164.

    The Dangerman

    @Joel:

    Well, that would seem to indicate that the state of Texas has some dumbshits running the lottery.

    Even a predictable algorithm is far less likely than good ol’ insider trading.

    Ever read the story of the fucked up algorithm from the old game show Press Your Luck that resulted in some dude winning BIG?

  165. 165.

    eemom

    haven’t read the comments, but it is my opinion that anyone who watches this thing in the absence of a gun pointed at their head is a sick, sad fuck in desperate need of a life.

    You’re welcome.

  166. 166.

    Bubblegum Tate

    Great line from the Guardian liveblog:

    “Give Michele Bachmann lemons and she makes kool-aid.”

  167. 167.

    Dennis SGMM

    @The Dangerman:
    I agree with you; it was an inside job. Otherwise, that woman is the greatest statistician on earth. My limited knowledge of statistics (Statistical Quality Control and Statistical Process Control) suggests that harvesting sufficient scratchers to determine the algorithm and to further determine where the algorithm would manifest itself positively in the scratchers to be shipped to a specific location would require buying a shitload of the things. It’s akin to winning a lottery by buying tickets with every possible combination of numbers.

  168. 168.

    Dennis SGMM

    @eemom:

    It’s human nature. For some of us on the left it is probably as irresistible as slowing down to gawk at a traffic accident. I only missed it because I have for some years forsworn watching anything on TV save TCM and the History Channel.

    How could it be promoted as a debate when every last one of the candidates likely agreed that Democrats suck and tax cuts increase revenue while creating jobs?

  169. 169.

    cckids

    @fhtagn:

    Perry’s probably the closest to electable of the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party, but he’s walked the crazy line often enough publicly enough to make me think that he’s going to be all hat and no cattle in the long run.

    Yes. Plus, my lol of the night came from Rachael Maddow: People who believe that W. Bush was/is smart think Rick Perry is dumb as a rock. That is almost unimaginable.

  173. 173.

    FlipYrWhig

    Perry is exactly Dubya Bush, only without the cohort of Poppy’s Little Helpers to make him palatable to the old guard in the Republican party. I think he’d make Republicans very excited, but I can’t think that America would fall for cowboy pastiche and Jesus talk yet again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, won’t get fooled again.

  174. 174.

    Jenny

    It’s gonna be fun watching Perry and Mittens nuke each other in a bloody Stalingrad attrition war.

  175. 175.

    RadioOne

    Didn’t watch the debate, opting for the NFL preseason games, but I can’t wait for Steve Doocy’s take tomorrow morning!!

  177. 177.

    TenguPhule

    As will the fact that Texas is running a big deficit right now… which, isn’t that contrary to the Essence of Conservative Principles? On the other hand, I’d LOVE to have a beer with him.

    So would I, the cyanide is easier to slip into his glass.

  178. 178.

    TenguPhule

    “Give Michele Bachmann lemons and she makes kool-aid. crystal meth.”

    Improved for accuracy.

  179. 179.

    harlana

    Marcus! Get with the program. Those shoes, or rather sandals, Michele was wearing, totally wrong with that suit! Better read up on shoe fashion, my dear.

  181. 181.

    RossInDetroit

    I skipped the whole thing. I holed up upstairs with Chuck Klosterman’s book Fargo Rock City, about Midwestern teenagers and heavy metal. This is at least as relevant to the early primaries as the Iowa Clown Show.

  183. 183.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Dennis SGMM:
    I remember Obama talking about the Republicans driving the economy off a cliff two years ago and blaming the deficit on Bush’s tax cuts, expensive wars, and unfunded Medicare expansion last month. Memory is a strange thing.

    As for Perry, the American people react badly to ‘crazy and whining’, but well to ‘genially stupid’. That’s why Bush was able to succeed and Palin was a drag on McCain’s ticket. But everything will depend on how Perry talks in public. The visceral reaction people have seeing him will decide his palatability with the average voter. I don’t really know how he plays in that department.

  184. 184.

    lol

    @The Dangerman:

    I wouldn’t even call that an algorithm. He just figured out from recordings that there was only about a dozen patterns to the grid flashing and memorized what handful of sqaures to watch to figure out which ones were safe.

    The guy who did it is a sad story. Won lots of money but got ripped off repeatedly and lost it all.

  185. 185.

    RossInDetroit

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The Republicans drove the economy into a ditch. The Democrats want to push and shovel to get it back on the road. But the GOP has decided the best course is to take the wheels off and give them to the rich.

  186. 186.

    RossInDetroit

    @Joel:

    I see, figuring out the algorithm used to generate those “random” numbers. Well, that would seem to indicate that the state of Texas has some dumbshits running the lottery.

    Seconded. Generating truly random numbers is not that hard. It was figured out as long ago as WWII. On paper. Not using a robust randomness generator in this day and age is just incompetence.

  188. 188.

    liberal

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I remember Obama talking about the Republicans driving the economy off a cliff two years ago and blaming the deficit on Bush’s tax cuts, expensive wars, and unfunded Medicare expansion last month.

    Problem isn’t that he didn’t mention it, because IIRC he did. Problem is that he didn’t keep mentioning it.

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