Rick Perry says a lot of crazy shit, but the most interesting piece of Perry stupidity that I’ve seen is what he tried to do with the HPV vaccine in Texas. Perry mandated that all sixth grade girls in Texas be vaccinated with Merck’s Gardasil vaccine in 2007, a decision that he’s only now walking back.
Providing HPV vaccine for those who can’t afford it, and educating parents and children about the benefits of the vaccine are both positive, progressive policy steps. Mandating vaccination for a disease that can only be sexually transmitted is certainly something any real conservative wouldn’t support. But when Perry’s friends at Merck told him to jump, he jumped as high as he possibly could, and was only stopped when the state legislature voted overwhelmingly to overturn his executive order.
This, rather than the aw-shucks, gun-toting bullshit, is the real similarity between Bush and Perry. Perry’s HPV vaccine extremism is of a piece with Bush’s Medicare Part D extremism. Providing a drug benefit to the elderly is something liberal and moderate policymakers could support. Doing it by creating a market with hundreds of different, confusing plans, and not using government buying power to buy drugs more cheaply in volume were just another kiss for big pharma. The cherry on top was that there was no plan in place to pay for Part D — Bush and the Republicans completely abandoned any pretense of fiscal discipline when they rammed Part D through during a midnight, arm-twisting vote.
Just as with Bush, the raw evidence of anti-conservative corporatism will be ignored by true believers and the DC mancrush media because Perry talks a good game, looks good in a suit, and occasionally shoots a gun.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
Ah, but REQUIRING the use of a drug that hasn’t been properly tested on the targeted age group because the Free Market’s Invisible Hand must be allowed to grope whomever it wants IS something they support.
Really, it’s a miracle the whole thing didn’t make their heads explode.
cleek
i propose a limit of ten Rick Perry stories per day.
rikyrah
Benen had a post about this yesterday, and I and others posted that his view of Perry was wrong.
YOU nailed it.
this was all about his FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF being hired by the company and giving them MILLIONS of dollars.
as you and others have pointed out, IFFFF this was about health of young women, then the state of Texas would have offered to PAY FOR THE VACCINATIONS OF THOSE WHO COULD NOT AFFORD IT.
but, that didn’t happen.
this was a GIVEAWAY to Big Pharma, and the only reason it failed was because it had to do with ‘sex’ to the Jesus Freaks.
Han's Big Snark Solo
@rikyrah:
Was that the same chief of staff Perry is rumored to have had a gay affair with? ‘Cause I’d think that guy would have a lot of leverage over ol’ Good Hair.
Caz
No problem with the numerous vaccines that we mandate to all babies in the U.S. by the establishment big brother though? Like vaccinating babies against Polio, which has been eradicated in North American; and vaccinating against chicken pox, which is uber mild for children and poses no real health risk. So what’s one more vaccination in light of the numerous, unnecessary ones already being hoisted upon our infants and children?
I wonder if this vaccine has a mercury preservative in it like the other ones I mentioned. That would be awesome if we are giving young girls AND infants mercury injections. That should help boost developmental problems in children, which will make pharmaceutical companies happy – whose lobbying dollars are why we require all these injections in the first place.
The issue is bigger than Perry and HPV vaccines, but I do agree that this is an issue that should be left up to parents. Gov’t should not be mandating health decisions in place of parents.
Mattminus
@Caz:
Yeah, it’s not like whooping cough is making a resurgence because of anti-vaccination morons or anything. Vaccinations are completely unnecessary. It’s best practice to get all your scientific information from Jenny McCarthy, right?
mistermix
@Caz: If you want to home school your children, or send them to some alternative school, or even just belong to religion that prohibits vaccination, you’ll never have to vaccinate them. As for chicken pox, it’s not mandatory even for school attendance anywhere in the US. You might have a point with polio, though it’s a very safe vaccine.
fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21414.pdf
So, your freedom to let your children get whooping cough, and perhaps die or be brain damaged, isn’t in danger:
children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20100721/whooping-cough-epidemic-hits-california
Ash Can
OK, what were the chances that Caz would be a vaccine conspiracy nut on top of everything else? At this point I’m really hoping Caz is a spoof, because that kind of thinking is genuinely dangerous, not just to people in general but to children in particular.
Chrisd
Polio was eradicated by vaccine.
I didn’t get chicken pox as a child, but I did get it as a young adult, and, believe me, “uber mild” would not be an accurate description of that nightmare. The same applies to young children with immunodeficiency.
There’s a lot of words I could use for people who rip vaccines while benefitting from them, but I’ll just leave it at free rider.
Gin & Tonic
@Caz:
So smallpox was eradicated due to so many parents making so many optimal decisions. Got it.
Dustin
Caz: You gave yourself away the moment you mentioned mercury, moron. You want to bitch about the vaccines fine, go ahead, but don’t use discredited anti-vax bullshit to do it and for fucks sake keep you and your kids away from my son. He was born three months early and couldn’t go out in public for three months after that because of people like you.
Napoleon
@Caz:
Hey look, it is an anti-vaccine wacko.
Hey dumb fuck, not only does all scientific studies show that the mercury does not represent a risk but it hasn’t even been used in the last 10 years.
Go pollute some other website with your tin foil hat theories that have caused so much damage to the health of this country.
WereBear
For the love of Francis Bacon, polio got eradicated BECAUSE OF THE VACCINE.
Rub two brain cells together, and you just might be amazed.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Caz: While we’re at it, let’s remove street lights because people are far better at making optimal driving decisions than an automated, government run, lighting system. And we all know how bad the color red is for us.
Violet
Perry is like the biggest fish in the Texas shaped fishbowl who just got dumped into the ocean and thinks he’ll survive just fine because he’s always been the biggest fish. He’ll be out of his league in national politics.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@WereBear: And it hasn’t been eradicated everywhere. One person brings it into Caz’s America and some child has a lifelong debilitating condition that could have been prevented.
Samara Morgan
That isnt the whole of the problem.
Razib Khan (posting as David Hume) had an interesting post about how all republican presidential candidates had to be pro-creationism and anti-abortion at a minimum. It seems to have been deleted, but here is a note where he mentions the post.
The GOP has become ~99% white (NHC) conservative christian nativists.
This a big problem for conservative elites, because any candidate is forced to conform to a rigid platform of ideological purity including not just revenue oppo, global warming denialism, but anti-choice and pro-creationism (anti-science) public positions.
for example– roe v wade
the youth vote opposes the overturn by 70%.
this is a big problem for republicans, and why this election season season is such a freakshow for GOP candidates. This may be the last demographic election for the GOP, and as long as their candidates are forced into an unappealing straightjacket of conservative posistions….their time to demagogue jobs is limited.
the trends are against ehm.
Stephen1947
Whenever we’re talking about Publicans and corporations, it’s probably useful to have this little word game in mind.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
This thread never had a chance.
Violet
@Stephen1947:
I saw that yesterday and thought it was brilliant. Such an easy thing to switch around and might even open some eyes.
I wish Saturday Night Live’s seasons had started so they could do a skit where one of Mitt Romney’s kids wants to go out on a date with Exxon or Merck.
Xenos
Just three threads back I asked what sort of fucking moron is opposed to vaccinations now that the autism issue has been sorted out, and lo-and-behold, Caz lets me know.
Polio is no fucking joke. If we vaccinate for 100 years after we think it is eradicated it will be too soon. I am ticked off that my kids did not get smallpox vaccine, because even a few vials of smallpox virus on this planet is way too much.
Southern Beale
I just heard the craziest anti-Obama smear ever from My Conservative Friend™. Keep in mind this guy thought Tim Pawlenty was the most sane of all the GOPers (I tend to agree) but now that he’s dropped out he’s interested in … Herman Cain.
Oy. Makes the head hurt.
Anyway, he alluded to the 2008 election as being in a sense “stolen” — likened it to when I said Bush wasn’t chosen by the people but the Supreme Court — because of .. wait for it … GOTV activities! I’m like, WHAT? He said, “they bused people to the polls, they got homeless people registered to vote,…” And I said, there’s nothing illegal with that, Republicans do it too, it’s called getting out the vote. It’s what political parties do.
And he’s like, “yeah but they were doing to try to shift the election their way.”
And I”m like .. and? What, you think Republican activists weren’t mobilizing THEIR voters? You think they were out there in black neighborhoods bringing people to the polls?
He said he had never heard of GOTV stuff, said from what he read they made it sound like Obama For America was doing something different, something that somehow was out of the ordinary. He said, “they brought in all of these people who wouldn’t normally have voted.” And again I’m like .. “and this is wrong because …????”
I then schooled him on what GOTV is, told him everything I’d done to elect John Kerry in 2004, explained that this is not unusual or exceptional and certainly not illegal, that THIS IS HOW IT’S DONE.
I mean Jesus fuck. So now a simple GOTV campaign is somehow analogous to Bush v Gore being decided by the Supreme Court? This is their version of “both sides do it”?????
TEH STOOOOOPIT IT BURRRNS ….
me
Don’t forget, Wisconsin voting today.
Steve
This post doesn’t make clear what was awful about Perry’s plan, other than the conservative objection which presumably mistermix doesn’t agree with. What am I missing? Was the vaccine not covered by Medicaid and poor people were forced to pay for it themselves?
Han's Big Snark Solo
@Southern Beale: Your Conservative Friend™ is a moron. Sorry, but that there is some powerful stupid.
Ash Can
@Southern Beale:
::headdesk::
Amir Khalid
@Southern Beale:
It’s the old sense of special entitlement to power, in this case fueled by the vision of a permanent Republican majority that I remember being touted by some eminence of that party back in the 1980s. (You Americans might remember exactly who it was.)
Reading Up on Sam Houston
Houston: I am aware that in presenting myself as the advocate of the Indians and their rights, I shall stand very much alone.
Perry: I am aware that in presenting myself as the advocate of PharmaCorp and their rights, I shall stand very much in good company.
Xenos
@Southern Beale: The ‘Stooopit’? That is not stupidity, that is racism, although a bit cryptic. The assumption is that poor black folks are not legit citizens and it is somehow illegitimate to enable them to vote – it is cheating, somehow.
PurpleGirl
@Caz: Ever heard of herd immunity? When people stop vaccinating their children, those children then pose a danger to all other children in a community because the unvaccinated children can become vectors for infections. Those infections can then be passed on to the community in general.
A Mom Anon
@Caz: Mercury isn’t used in vaccines anymore,hasn’t been for several yrs now. If you honestly think that vaccines aren’t necessary,I suggest you read something not by Jenny McCarthy or one of the charlatans she uses as part of her money making scheme.She is a liar and an opportunist and she needs her ass kicked for the damage her crap has done,both inside and outside the autism community. Oprah deserves a neck punch for giving her a voice too.
I am the mom of an autistic child,I have done more than my fair share of research on vaccines,neurology,brain development and spoken with endless numbers of doctors,psychologists,psychologists and other experts(I’ve been at this for nearly 18 yrs). The risks of not vaccinating far outweigh the risks of making sure your kid has shots before entering school. Seriously,were you vaccinated as a kid? I see you’re still here.
cleek
the GOP’s ground game is a lot weaker than the Dems’, so they have no choice but to make the true believers think the Dems are cheating. can’t have The Base thinking they’re inferior in any way!
kay
@Southern Beale:
I just think it’s a very funny story, so thanks for that.
Those BASTARDS. Outworking conservatives. Will the unfairness never end?
What does ‘wouldn’t normally have voted” mean, anyway? Conservatives read the minds of voters, and declare them non-voters, presumptively. It’s a lot like how they handle election law.
Paul in KY
@Southern Beale: The law in all its majesty says the poor as well as the rich must have their own transportation to the polls.
PurpleGirl
OT to this thread but, US currency is produced by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. They print currency every day — primarily to replace old and damaged currency. They give tours of their printing plants. One of their printing plants is in Fort Worth… Think Perry has ever heard of it? Or been there?
mistermix
@Steve: The issues with mandatory HPV vaccination were that Gardasil was extremely new in 2007 and the risks were not known, and that the vaccination was for a disease that’s serious but doesn’t cause epidemics, and the disease is not spread by casual contact, unlike every other vaccination “mandated” for children (see my comment above for the sense in which vaccines are “mandated”). The US doesn’t even “mandate” a vaccination for chicken pox, though it has rare serious complications and there can be epidemics of chicken pox.
burnspbesq
So, let’s recap.
Making Gardasil available is a good thing, but making it mandatory is a sellout to Merck? Ummm, Gardasil is patented, and there is no substitute available in the United States. If you want it, you buy it from Merck. Merck gets all the money from sales of Gardasil, no matter what. So this argument is, to put it mildly, a crock.
@Thoughtful:
Not this morning, you’re not. Interestingly enough, about two minutes on the toobz would have led you to the FDA recommendation that the vaccine be administered before the onset of sexual activity. In today’s world, for better or worse, that means no later than age 12. Also worth noting: (1) there have been tests on girls as young as 11; (2) VAERS data don’t show a statistically significant difference in the number or severity of adverse events when compared to other vaccines in widespread use.
Look, y’all, there are lots of legitimate reasons to dread the idea of Preznit Perry. There’s no need to make shit up.
burnspbesq
@mistermix:
Gardasil was approved by the FDA based on the results of well-designed clinical trials. That’s the way the system works.
We now have five years of VAERS data, which show that Gardasil is reasonably safe as vaccines go.
If you want to have a conversation about how new drugs are evaluated, or about what level of adverse events justify changes in warnings or removal of a vaccine from the market, we can have either or both of those conversations, but neither of them have anything to do with Rick Perry.
Amir Khalid
@kay:
If the Aussie Balloon Juicers are with us right now, they’ll be able to confirm that voting there, in every election, is not only every citizen’s right but is required of them by law. How different that is, from believing that it is somehow unfair for the other party to encourage voters who might not pick your party to exercise their citizen’s rights..
mistermix
@burnspbesq: There’s a difference between encouraging vaccination by financing the vaccine for those who can’t afford it, and mandating vaccination in 2007 when Gardasil was new to the market and parents might reasonably want to wait a year or two to judge effectiveness and safety. The point is that Perry chose the most extreme option because it is the most beneficial to Merck, not only because it makes Merck more money, but because it sets a precedent Merck can use to market mandatory Gardasil vaccinations in other states. Perry did that due to his clearly documented deep ties with Merck lobbyists, all while at the same time he was gutting other social programs in Texas.
I’m explaining this very carefully because you’re either being willfully obtuse, or you’re using your keen “esq” debating skills, honed by years of careful study at Regent University. As usual, I can’t tell which.
snoey
@burnspbesq: The trials were “limited” because the results were so clear that the monitoring board recommended that they be stopped on ethical grounds so that the placebo group could be vaccinated.
mistermix
@burnspbesq: Does this kind of slippery reasoning work in your day job defending indigent corporations or whatever form of esquiring you do?
Yes, we have that now, in 2011, but in 2007, we didn’t, did we? So, the parents who were a bit reluctant in 2007 were being irrational because they lacked the foresight to predict how the research on Gardasil would turn out?
Nutella
Here’s a nice pic of Perry to pair with his college fascist outfit.
Ash Can
@burnspbesq: The issue isn’t that he made Gardasil mandatory, it’s that he did so contrary to his supposed conservative values. Performing one significant “progressive” act in isolation naturally raises a red flag, and mistermix isn’t “making shit up” by analyzing that. You’re trying a little too hard here to be the devil’s advocate.
ETA: And obviously, mistermix and others have said it earlier and better.
kay
@Amir Khalid:
Conservatives think different on voting. I watched SC governor Nikki Haley all but giggle over the fact that older, rural residents in SC were (often) born outside hospitals, so don’t have state documents.
First, she didn’t know this about the people in her state (amazing), and second, when she found out, she could not have cared less.
She said she would drive anyone who needed access to documents, but we all know that’s a silly and inane thing to say, because we all know she’s not driving anyone anywhere. She simply doesn’t care if she bars them from voting, and she doesn’t care if we all know it.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: it is exactly the same sense of entitlement exercised (exploited) by the Barisans in your country.
religio-racial nativitism.
jacy
@mistermix:
I’m not going to argue about Perry’s motives – which are obviously bad. But I can’t argue against mandating a vaccine that will eradicate cervical cancer. There’s a thing called “herd immunity,” and when enough people in the herd are vaccinated, it not only effectively eradicates the disease, it protects the most vulnerable members of the population who cannot physically withstand vaccination.
The thing is, to get herd immunity, you have to mandate vaccination. If there’s one thing I hate, it’s vaccine-deniers. They literally kill people. I agree with burnspesq — there’s enough to hang around Perry’s neck without throwing in something that actually saves people’s lives, regardless of his motives for doing it.
Public Service Announcement: guidelines now suggest that all boys should also receive the HPV vaccine. We started the 11-year-old last week.
Ash Can
@kay: We’ve heard conservatives come right out and say that they consider voting to be a privilege rather than a right, but I believe that, on an even deeper level, they reject the entire idea of democracy altogether.
ETA: And I use the term “conservative” very loosely here.
kay
@Ash Can:
It’s better than before. The lines are clear. Conservatives seek to bar voting, and liberals seek to expand voting.
Now that we all understand each other, we can fight to the death on the actual issue, w/out all this preliminary bullshit :)
Nethead Jay
@mistermix: Burns is many things, including sometimes a bit obnoxious, but I very much doubt that he’s ever been in contact with the Regent University hacks.
Southern Beale
@kay:
Stayed on the sofa watching “Bachelor” re-runs?
PurpleGirl
A little research and I found two interesting points:
1) Perry’s original order instructed the state health department of cover the costs for people/children who were uninsured. At $360 or so per 3-shot routine and an administrative cost, that’s real money to Merck. (Also Merck was lobbying in other states and Perry’s order created a precedent Merck needed.)
2) Perry vetoed a plan to cover Pap smears for low-income women which would have uncovered the same cancer Gardasil is aimed at preventing.
Samara Morgan
@kay: i liek this New Warrior Kay.
@mistermix: does this mean you aren’t going to mercy
fucklink EDK any more?Villago Delenda Est
Caz, I’m afraid, is another one of these sacks of vile offal who can’t understand cause and effect.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
To summarize: Requiring pediatric patients to take and pay for untested vaccines, even when the person mandating the vaccine has a clear financial interest in doing so is A-OK, so long as it pisses off the TalEvan.
@mistermix: Hush now, you’ll mess up his aim.
I mean it isn’t like Big Pharm has ever put a thumb on the scales to expand the use of a drug without full testing. See for example certain anti-depressants used on pediatric patients.
But, that was recommended by respected medical professionals, you say?
Amazing what people will do for a big stack of cash, ain’t it?
mistermix
@jacy: I’m OK with mandating proven vaccinations as long as the state pays for them if parents can’t afford them. I think it was reasonable in 2007 to wonder if Gardasil really was safe and effective, since it was approved in late 2006. If you had an 11 year-old then, waiting until they were, say, 13, seems like a reasonable option for a generally vaccine-friendly parent. But Perry’s order didn’t give parents that option. So, his decision actually set back herd immunity on HPV. By pushing Gardasil almost immediately after it was approved, and doing so by executive order rather than in partnership with the legislature, he provoked a backlash and made the whole topic politically radioactive. It’s 2011 and there’s no mandate in Texas. A more astute politician who wasn’t out to cowboy this to make money for his Merck buddies could have done a hell of a lot better.
@PurpleGirl:
He’s also a Medicaid-hater in general, and we can certainly wonder if the $360/shot could have been better spent on a different public health initiative given that Texas’ Medicaid funding is so paltry.
Samara Morgan
time to give up the gun, dontchu think mistermix?
PurpleGirl
@mistermix: Yes, that cost of Gardasil could have covered many other things, especially since at least 25% of Texans don’t have insurance.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
By UMNO, really, as the leading party in Barisan. But please try to stay on topic. This post and this thread are about America’s politics.
Samara Morgan
and daft punk is playing at my house.
:)
set them up, mistermix.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: YOU made the comparison.
im just refuting it.
if you want to get wid me theres some things you gotta know.
redshirt
Dang it’s easy to troll this blog. Caz knows what he’s doing. Or, possibly, he’s a complete Moran.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
I’m not seeing the connection between that clip and anything under discussion here.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: and im not seeing the the connection between the Barisans and the democrats.
the connection is between the GOP and the Barisans– wholly religious parties.
:)
Bruce S
Gov. GoodHair: “We’re going through difficult economic times for a purpose – to bring us back to those Biblical principles of you know, you don’t spend all the money.”
titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/08/governor-good-hairs-texas-miracle.html
Rick Perry is GOP Perfection – he’s got the Bachmann crowd’s crazy covered without her problematic (to the GOP’s Big Boys) quality of being utterly earnest, and he also brings the raw opportunism of Mitt, but with a less transparent veneer. Problems solved. What’s not to like?
Nethead Jay
@Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen: There’s certainly a debate to be had about Corporate Pharma bad influencing and inadequate testing of drugs in general. But that one we should have separate from this particular case. Why? Because the trials for this drug were closely followed by many observers.
I’m part of a group that takes an active part in the sex and reproductive health care part of the Culture Wars. We knew from the start that depending on the results from the trial this vaccine could be an early candidate for a mandate and that the social cons would be looking for even the meagerest scrap of doubt that could be used to oppose this. So we followed it closely And that’s exactly how it went, but the other side couldn’t find anything, so they had to fall back on generalized doubt and fear-mongering.
So I have no problem with a mandate because HPV is a real health problem and frankly it should be federal and not state-based. This would be for the right reasons, namely improving the health of a big part of the population and dealing a blow to the social cons is just icing on the cake.
Highlighting that Perry is a well-trained corporate lackey doesn’t mean you have to be against mandating the vaccine, in a well-planned and economic way of course.
Death Panel Truck
And I would also remind you, that moderation in the pursuit of cutting Granny’s Medicare is no virtue.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
” Like vaccinating babies against Polio, which has been eradicated in North America;”
There’s still the risk of importation of the virus from the countries in which the disease is still endemic. Unlike most diseases, polio only has a human host, and so is on the path to eradication. (As was measles before anti-vaxers and their data-fabricating allies ginned up a panic and immunization rates dropped.)
“and vaccinating against chicken pox, which is uber mild for children and poses no real health risk.”
I was laid out for two weeks by chickenpox as an adult. Mild is not the word I’d use.
Joel
This isn’t a popular opinion around these parts, but I support the HPV vaccine mandate. This disease is a major epidemic and primary cause of cervical cancer. Also affects men and is typically carried without symptoms.
taylormattd
Great, so this is now a fucking Jenny McCarthy anti-vax site?
Why the fuck would you use the phrase “HPV vaccine extremism”? What’s next, you denounce mandatory DPT vaccines as extremist?
Big Momm
Why does a politician always have to apologize for improving public health? I don’t care how scummy Perry’s relationship with Merck was, the fact is that Gardasil has been proven to work and in a couple decades’ time we’ll have tens of thousands of women with cervical cancer who could be living healthy lives had their state vaccinated them as children.
Also, people like Caz are the scum of the earth.
The Spy Who Loved Me
Our daughter had the recommended vaccines and now that it is being recommended for boys as well, our son will also go through the series. Anything that protects against cervical cancer and genital warts, just to name two of the strains of HPV eradicated by this vaccine, is a very good thing.
mistermix
@taylormattd:
Read what I wrote in the comments in response to questions like that before you require sedation.
taylormattd
@mistermix: Your responses are the same pathetic dreck vomited up whenever the anti-vaxxers show up to troll the people at scienceblogs.
The studies about gardasil that were out at the time were very rigorous, involved a very large number of people, and the results were shockingly amazing.
And if you hadn’t noticed, it is no longer 2007 – it is instead 2011, and every result has been confirmed. Yet for some reason you are using the phrase “HPV vaccine extremism” when talking about making it mandatory. This is in no way, shape, or form “extreme” anymore than it is “extreme” to require polio or DPT vaccinations for schoolchildren.
This kind of tripe has no business on a supposedly progressive, reality based blog. If you want to make a point about Perry’s motives, which everyone would agree were likely shitty, fine. If you want to write about how this could bite him in the ass with the teabaggers, fine. But please stop with the Jenny McCarthy routine.
TenguPhule
And thus Caz proves themself full of shit.
Polio REMAINS a distant memory here BECAUSE of ongoing vaccinations.
And chicken pox damn well is a health risk if the immunity is not developed early. Not all of us catch it as kids, Moran.