Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

No Justins, No Peace

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

In my day, never was longer.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Thanks for reminding me that Van Jones needs to be slapped.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / There Is Something Deeply, Deeply Wrong With These People

Reader Interactions

96Comments

  3. 3.

    Ben Cisco

    I knew better than to get out of the boat, but I did it anyway.
    __
    The level of sociopathy needed to get to where that guy is used to get a guy locked up…

  4. 4.

    Villago Delenda Est

    “Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”

    Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to
    watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trails

  5. 5.

    iriedc

    I’m going to ignore the cruelty for the moment to observe that the NoH8 tribute was touching and classy.

  6. 6.

    Don

    Opponents of marriage equality would love to make talking about it after a death off limits. After all, it’s one of the times when the repercussions of an inability to form legal bonds are most strongly felt – when hospital visitation is denied, communal property taken away by greedy/hateful family members, social security benefits and pensions denied.

    It’s not a lack of empathy, or at least not one any different than the lack that informs their entire position. This is just cold and calculating gamesmanship.

  7. 7.

    freelancer

    Were you not around for “It takes balls to execute an innocent man.”?

    ETA: and I see Jager was following the same linear thought process. Kudos.

  9. 9.

    Thoughtcrime

    It’s called “Wellstoning”

    “Wellstoning is the accusation by conservatives of politicizing a funeral or memorial service of a liberal political figure in order to deflect criticism of the conservative agenda by speakers at the service, or offset any political value the service might have to liberals.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellstoning#Aftermath

  10. 10.

    Xof

    It’s important that when one eulogizes someone, one must never mention political causes that were central to the departed’s life. Unless, of course, the pundit agrees with the cause; that’s different.

  12. 12.

    WeThePurple

    If you go to the comments on the American Power post there are a couple of reasoned, heartfelt rebuttals. Then there is this comment, the one I really liked:

    Dear hste-filled wingnut asshole,

    Go fuck yourself.

    Too bad it wasn’t a moron like you who got snuffed out instead of a loving person working to change the world for the better. The fewer clueless motherfuckers like you around, the better.

    Did I tell you to go fuck yourself? Just checking…

  13. 13.

    danimal

    Conservatives trash these heartfelt and spontaneous (and, yes, politically motivated) tributes for a reason: they resonate. Deeply and emotionally, they resonate; and they change people’s thoughts and actions.

  15. 15.

    TenguPhule

    Nothing that can’t be solved by heads on chopping blocks and lots of enthusiastic people wielding axes.

  16. 16.

    Brian R.

    The best part is that when I opened this site, right under the post headline “There Is Something Deeply, Deeply Wrong With These People,” there was a picture of Allen West.

  17. 17.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Brian R.:

    Which is perfect. West is definitely one of these people.

    He’s “principled” you know. So was Reinhard Heydrich.

  18. 18.

    Paul in KY

    @Villago Delenda Est: Although most all, if not all, of the Nuremburg defendants were ammoral monsters, I do believe one can have empathy & still commit evil acts.

    The person might cry over it or agonize over it, but they still may end up doing the same evil if they can rationalize it in some manner.

    The ammoral sociopath doesn’t worry about rationalizing it (at least to themselves).

  19. 19.

    Keith G

    Dr Douglas PhD (Long Beach City College)is not a good human being – Details here.

    Is this sadly hateful jerk representative of a known and large quantity of others, I do not know. I hope not.

  20. 20.

    Jay in Oregon

    Apparently these conservative sociopath fucksticks weren’t paying attention to the fap-fest that was the tribute to Ronald Reagan.

    Or 9/11, where we were admonished not to “play the blame game” or use the tragedy to make a political point — right up to the point where Jerry Falwell accused everyone he didn’t like (primarily liberals, gays, and lesbians) of causing 9/11 to happen.

  21. 21.

    Matt

    @Paul in KY:

    Indeed – that’s the real hazard of having political and religious institutions hijacked by sociopaths. The few who utterly lack morals get to convince the rest that they NEED to do horrible things for “freedom”, “country”, and/or “Jeebus” and disaster ensues…

  23. 23.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Paul in KY:

    The point is, they need to be led into it. Which as Matt points out at #21, is what leads those who might have empathy down the path.

    Most Germans were not sociopaths. But their leadership in WWII consisted, predominantly, of sociopaths.

    Hitler loved dogs, you know.

  24. 24.

    Brian R.

    I love how the original post shakes his fist angrily about the “sick sympathy shakedown” by NOH8.

    Don’t worry, dude. You were apparently born without the ability to feel sympathy or empathy. Just knee-jerk hatred.

    Have fun dying alone and unloved, asswipe.

  27. 27.

    Elliecat

    @Paul in KY:

    I do believe one can have empathy & still commit evil acts.

    I think the word you want is “sympathy” rather than “empathy.” There is a difference. Sympathy is kind of a general understanding of someone’s feelings while empathy is an identification with a person and their feelings or experiences.

    For example, the person with sympathy understands that torture is painful and distressing and feels sorry for the person being tortured. The person with empathy imagines what torture would feel like on his or her own body and mind and identifies with the person being tortured.

    I think this would make a huge difference in which of these people could carry out an evil act.

  28. 28.

    Frankensteinbeck

    His response and complaint read like standard conservative double standard. If it supports them it’s justified, if it doesn’t it must be illegitimate somehow. It’s more tribalist than strictly sociopathic. The feelings of others matter, but only if they’re on his side.

  29. 29.

    merrinc

    @Brian R.:

    [Allen West ad]

    Under mine was some doofus holding a book about liberalism destroying the world or some such nonsense. What I can’t figure out is why these folks pay to advertise on this site.

  30. 30.

    eemom

    not to trivialize the discussion, but…..bumper stickers.

    Am I the only one who loses their shit when they see a car covered with ignorant, lying bumper stickers?

    Recently I was exiting the gym when I saw a woman sitting in car with a “Nobama” on one side and a “No Hope in Socialism” on the other — the O’s, of course, pirating the Obama logo.

    “You’re an idiot,” I noted. She didn’t hear me — the windows were closed. And besides, she was too fucking stupid to see her nose in front of her face, let alone someone walking right beside her car.

    But then finally she did look up, and I said “You’re an idiot” again and gave her a look that I hope conveyed every ounce of the disgust that possessed my being.

    This morning, there was a car parked outside the Whole Foods store which sported “It’s Not Right vs. Left — It’s Right vs. Wrong” and “Obama: Trickle Up Poverty” among others. This time there was no one in it. I thought about writing “I’m a Pig” on a stickie note and sticking it on there, but didn’t. Then I thought about waiting around, just to see what the creature who owned that car looked like, but I didn’t do that either.

    Dunno, guess I’m overreacting. They’re just stupid bumper stickers. But I do hate those people so. very. much.

  31. 31.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @merrinc: The site’s using Google’s matching algorithm to match ads to content being discussed. They aren’t specifically targeting us, just based on a few keywords. But, if we can take some of their money off of their hands, I’m all for having them here.

  32. 32.

    Judas Escargot

    OT: But it looks like the MSM, still flush with that certain glow only Perry-mania can bring, will soon have yet another shiny new toy to play with. Christie might enter the race. Hope they saved Taft’s old bed.

    Even weirder: Cantor’s making sense, for some reason. Wonder what the catch will be?

  33. 33.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    Michele and Marcus praying the ghey away = Sympathy

    It Gets Better Campaign = Empathy

  34. 34.

    FormerSwingVoter

    I don’t know if you guys have noticed, but the one common factor connecting the disparate entities of the modern conservative movement is this:

    A complete and total hatred of all living things.

  36. 36.

    FormerSwingVoter

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Another thing they might be targeting on is other sites you’ve visited in their network. I’ve gotten a bunch of gaming ads when I visit from home and B2B software ads when I come here on my work computer.

  38. 38.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    But guys, everyone knows that empathy is a horrible, horrible thing! We were told that all the time in the Sotomayor hearings!! Empathy is the WORST thing you can have in politics!! It’s just so…evil and biased!!

  39. 39.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Judas Escargot: The catch is that when it comes time to the shutdown, Cantor will point back at this statement to show that he doesn’t want a shutdown, but the President is making him force one anyway.

  40. 40.

    pete

    Presumably the gentleman enjoyed having the “Fvck you” comment because my (more moderate) one went to moderation. I told him that the only merit of his post was that now I know where to send a donation, which I have done.

  41. 41.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Paul in KY:

    Yeah, I know.

    But it’s amazing if you compare Churchill side by side with Hitler on some traits, Hitler comes out “ahead” in the conventional wisdom. Which shows you how stupid conventional wisdom can be.

    One of the interesting things about Hitler was that many Germans couldn’t believe he was at fault for so many things; it was always his bad advisers who seemed to be the reason for reversals. This is pretty much cognitive dissonance on a high level, given the concept of the Führerprinzip itself, but you see this same sort of thinking during the deserting coward assmalistration (bad advisers steering Bush wrong), and after he’s out of power…he wasn’t REALLY a “conservative” at all!

  43. 43.

    jharp

    I’m waiting for the religious crackpots to claim God dropped the stage on them for being lesbians.

  44. 44.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Elliecat:

    Yup, that is a very, very good point. Some men see some other guy get kicked in the crotch, and they reflexively cover their own…that’s empathy.

  45. 45.

    The Dangerman

    Given the unprecedented levels of hagiography when Reagan died several years ago, the Right should be silent regarding how anyone chooses to commemorate a passing.

  47. 47.

    Gotwolfy

    I think
    Evil = Selfishness + arrogance
    would be more appropriate
    When you are selfish you do not concern yourself with other And When you are arrogant you think you are better than other, you deserve more, witch lead you to do thing that help you even if it harm other

  49. 49.

    Ash Can

    @Judas Escargot: Belafon has a good point about pre-emptive ass-covering by Cantor. It could also be a matter of him noticing the polling on Congress/the GOP/teabaggers, or he may simply have been getting a good earful from his constituents or — more likely — his Wall Street overlords. Or maybe he’s just trying to flush his behavior during the debt ceiling imbroglio down the memory hole. Or any or all of the above.

  50. 50.

    Loneoak

    @Steve:

    Oh man, I forgot about that. You would think generating that many fallacies would require at least a dash of intelligence, but no, it doesn’t.

  52. 52.

    FlipYrWhig

    @FormerSwingVoter:

    A complete and total hatred of all living things.

    You forgot Poland stem cells! Those are sacrosanct. You even get to promote them to the major leagues of “living things” for the precise purpose of empathizing with their alleged pain.

  53. 53.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @The Dangerman:

    No kidding. I and my small circle of friends dreaded what we called “The Reagasm” for years prior to its actual occurance. It was as dreadful as we expected it to be.

    I cringe ever year September 11th rolls around too. I call it “The Wallow”.

  56. 56.

    cackalacka

    What I would have posted to The Donalde’s site comment, if I didn’t have to risk being cyber-stalked by disturbed Donalde:

    “Can’t speak to these advocacy groups using the occasion of this woman’s untimely death to make statements.

    But I do note that you have used this occasion to 1) grind a political ax, and 2) post a snuff film where people died and scores were horribly injured.

    I’m no theologian, but this is exactly the sort of blog post that is probably going to greet you in hell, Ms. Douglas.”

  58. 58.

    eemom

    Sir Cole. Can you please release my comment from moderation jail. It is sorry for using the S word and promises not to do it again.

  59. 59.

    Amir Khalid

    @Judas Escargot:
    At a time when the Republicans’ latest shiny new candidate is being criticized, by people in his own party, for an implied threat of violence against a federal official, do they really want a candidate who can’t control his temper? Earlier this year, Chris Christie teed off on one of his constituents just for writing to his local paper. The letter had a mild and indirect criticism of Christie’s policy toward the poor in New Jersey. (The constituent concerned is Bruce Springsteen, but that’s not important here.)

    He is arrogant and petulant with citizens. He is no paragon of gubernatorial competence. What’s worse, Christie’s temper overwhelms his judgment too readily for him to be trusted with high office. And he’s very easily provoked. His Presidential candidacy would always be just one big tantrum away from a meltdown.

  60. 60.

    drkrick

    At the end of the day, they believe it’s illegitimate for anyone to the left of Newt Gingrich to even attempt to make their case. Any ideas that they don’t entirely agree with feel like an attack to them. Since that argument, made plainly, is obviously ridiculous, they hide behind crap like this, or arguments about union political activity. Also so stupid, but not quite so overwhelmingly so.

  61. 61.

    Southern Beale

    GAH don’t go in the water! Brain-eating amoeba kills second victim:

    Christian Strickland, a 9-year-old from Henrico County in Virginia contracted an infection after visiting a fishing camp in his state. He died of meningitis on August 5.
    __
    This week, health department officials confirmed that the deadly amoeba–officially known as “Naegleria fowleri”–was to blame.
    __
    “Sadly, we have had a Naegleria infection in Virginia this summer,” Dr. Keri Hall of the Virginia Department of Health, told The Richmond Times-Dispatch.
    __
    “It’s important that people be aware of . . . safe swimming messages.”
    __
    Earlier this month, Courtney Nash succumbed to the brain-eating amoeba after diving off a dock into the St. John’s River at her grandmother’s house in Florida.

  62. 62.

    TooManyJens

    @drkrick:

    At the end of the day, they believe it’s illegitimate for anyone to the left of Newt Gingrich to even attempt to make their case.

    Bingo. They’re so gracious that they’ll tolerate our presence here, just as long as we shut up and don’t challenge the Real Americans.

  63. 63.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Southern Beale:

    So, in other words, it’s perfectly safe for guys like RedState maven Fucker Fuckerson to go swimming, as, like Fry from Futurama they are in no danger from brain eating amoebae.

  64. 64.

    Judas Escargot

    @Ash Can:

    Belafon has a good point about pre-emptive ass-covering by Cantor.

    It’s a very good point. Just find the timing odd– the time to get reasonable (or even to pretend to be reasonable) was before the S&P downgrading, not afterwards.

    Either the downgrade was unexpected, or Cantor’s indulging in an 11-dim chess game of his own.

    Time, as always, will tell.

  66. 66.

    Judas Escargot

    @Amir Khalid:

    All true. But there’s definitely an “Angry White Male” demographic that would see itself reflected in Christie’s demeanor. His team is probably running polls to see if that demo is big enough to get him the numbers he needs. It probably isn’t.

    BTW, random thought: Christie the AWM from the northeast; Perry the libertarian cowboy; Bachmann the radical Christianist… each of these is an identifiable rightwing archetype that you’ll find in any online forum (going all the way back to USENET, really).

    I just realized why this election cycle seems so particularly weird: it’s almost as if each of the various online rightwing archetypes is trying to manifest itself in the real world as a Presidential candidate.

    This, IMO, is new.

  68. 68.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Judas Escargot: Well, we do have budget negotations to, theoretically, go through. And this one is fun because it really is about deciding what gets funded, unlike the faux crisis of the debt ceiling.

  69. 69.

    Chyron HR

    Jane Hamsher, via @Alex S.:

    But who do they think is keeping Obama’s poll numbers afloat?

    Oh, clearly that would be FDL bloggers.

  70. 70.

    jl

    @63: I won’t get into the political tactics issues, but the NM Obama staffer was totally wrong and off base about the criticism of WH economic policy from Krugman.

    What the staffer misses is that the criticism of the current WH economic stimulus efforts is that it is not just Krugman’s opinion. Krugman is the most visible because he has a very high profile media platform.

    Pretty much all prominent Keynesian economists are saying the same thing, based on a model that they can use independently to churn out results that agree. Examples of other high profile Keynesian macroeconomists who agree are Brad Delong, Joseph Stiglitz, Robert Shiller, James Galbraith, Oliver Blanchard, Alan Blinder, Dean Baker, and ex WH staffers Peter Orszag, Lawrence Summers, and Christina Romer. And I could name a few more.

    Krugman is correct when he says the standard Keynes/Hicks model of macroeconomics has stood up pretty well. All these economists take the standard model, with some minor variations usually related to each individual’s area of specialty, and can use it to reproduce (as well as things can be reproduced in the very soft science of macroeconomics) the same analysis and the same forecasts, and the same policy prescriptions.

    This differentiates them from the hapless new classical and real business cycle people who are all over the map in their analysis, to the extent that they have any independent analysis at all. Mostly they are reduced to nit picking Keynesian analysis and working on half a dozen 20/20 hindsight and Monday morning QB schools of thought about different ways the government messed it up, or how the evil of the CRA finally manifested itself after decades of being a very minor macro policy and blew up the world.

  71. 71.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Judas Escargot: I had a thought along similar lines when Rand Paul was running. He just seemed _exactly_ like the classic libertarian douche who thinks he’s rather clever from Usenet. But your theory has a pleasing SkyNet/The Matrix quality about it.

  72. 72.

    dmsilev

    @Judas Escargot:

    BTW, random thought: Christie the AWM from the northeast; Perry the libertarian cowboy; Bachmann the radical Christianist… each of these is an identifiable rightwing archetype that you’ll find in any online forum (going all the way back to USENET, really).

    Usenet, huh? I wonder when Archimedes Plutonium or Robert McElwaine will enter the GOP primary race? (for those who were lucky enough never to encounter the underbelly of Usenet back in the Nineties, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_celebrity )

  75. 75.

    jl

    @Alex S.: Did we read the same link? Seemed to me that half of the blast was defending the economics of the WH approach, not just the politics.

  78. 78.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Alex S.: Jane Hamsher saying that someone else’s writing “smacks of narcissism” has to be a new benchmark for lacking self-awareness.

    @jl: All of that rings true to me, but there is a hypersensitivity to any suggestion of “cuts,” even cuts to the provider side, even cuts aimed at bloat and looting, that has been immensely counterproductive to the prospects of controlling medical costs. And treating those lost dollars, rhetorically at least, as macroeconomically calamitous shows that something is askew in Keynesian prescriptions. To pull a reductio ad absurdam on it, if the government somehow gave the Koch brothers $1 billion, that would “stimulate the economy”; and if the government somehow took away from them $1 billion, that would shrink the economy. But we can’t just total up the dollars and evaluate policy on that basis. All cost-cutting isn’t inherently virtuous, but it isn’t inherently vicious, either.

  79. 79.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @jl: There were so many great points in that, my favorite being that while Texas only loast 178K over the three year period, which is small for the population of the state, it added nearly half of the government jobs created in the entire country.

  80. 80.

    FlipYrWhig

    @jl: I agree that the objections weren’t, this time, about the politics (e.g., “Krugman complains that there wasn’t a bigger stimulus, but where were the votes for it?”). But on the economics the point seemed to be that, contra Krugman and “firebaggers,” the agreed-to cuts didn’t qualify as austerity and weren’t taking money out of everyday people’s pockets.

  81. 81.

    Alex S.

    @jl:

    I think I interpreted it differently, that is, the policy of the deal is closely linked to the politics. Or in other words, policy-wise this was as good as possible (I might be biased because I think that medicare and defense spending cuts have to happen anyway). But yeah, this is just one side of the austerity medal.

    @Corner Stone:
    What makes them a clownsite (honest question, never really paid attention to them)?

  82. 82.

    eemom

    @FlipYrWhig:

    the other quote Chyron HR notes above is killer too — i.e., Hamsher taking credit for “keeping Obama’s poll numbers afloat.” bwaaaahaaaahaaahaaaaa.

    Truly a contender for the Top 10 Shits You Can’t Make Up.

  83. 83.

    Woodrowfan

    @Keith G:

    Dr Douglas PhD (Long Beach City College)is not a good human being – Details here.

    Is this sadly hateful jerk representative of a known and large quantity of others, I do not know. I hope not.

    Good lord, the commentators on that site are so bad it almost makes the Donalde look good! (almost)., “TexasFred” is quite a piece of work himself…

  84. 84.

    Judas Escargot

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Oddly enough… with 2012 looming, I decided to re-read The Invisibles not too long ago. So that’s probably influenced my framing. Between the real “King Mob” running amok in London, and the 2012 election cycle turning out the way it is, I suspect Grant Morrison would approve.

    Speaking of the present catching up to the future: Stand on Zanzibar, an oddly prescient 1968 novel set in 2010 and long out of print, is finally out on the Kindle. I had a hardcover edition nicked by a long-ago gf when I was only halfway through, so I never got to finish it. Now I can.

  86. 86.

    Judas Escargot

    @dmsilev:

    Damn, I’m old: I remember almost 2/3 of those people. And found myself wondering “whatever happened to…” about a few more who didn’t make it on that list. Doctoress Neutopia? ‘Andrew, Beckwith’? Andrea Chen?

    Fellow old-timers might be amused by this.

    Wonder if Kibo ever googles himself.

  87. 87.

    TheStone

    This type of stuff goes a long way to explaining why liberals will never be able to stop wringing their hands and wondering “Why won’t they just listen to Rachel and her facts?” There is a moral and ethical chasm there that I have stopped trying to bridge. There is nothing to do w/ such folks except neutralize their capacity to poison the communal well.

  88. 88.

    Ian

    @eemom:

    My favorite was when I saw a brand new 2010 GM vehicle with the Sticker ‘Is this the change you voted for’ with a communist flag.

    It was certainly the change that enabled her car to come into existence

  89. 89.

    eemom

    @Ian:

    heh. And you can be sure that thought never got anywhere close to her tiny little mind, much less crossed it.

  90. 90.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    You’re not telling me something I don’t already know John. These people are disturbingly hateful of anyone who is not ‘one of them’. How people can hate fellow human beings is beyond me. I was raised in a colorblind home (thank you very much Mom!!) and when I look at someone I see a fellow human. Humans are diverse and differences are to be expected, but only if you acknowledge reality.

    Reality is something that these people have been avoiding for decades. They can’t handle it.

    @Judas Escargot:
    “Even weirder: Cantor’s making sense…”

    Methinks his Galtian Overlords (translation: donors with DEEP pockets) have given him his marching orders. The change is too abrupt for this asshole, it couldn’t be anything else.

    IMO, Cantor has been read the riot act and is jumping as high as they have told him to.

  91. 91.

    HyperIon

    @Jay mentioned: “JuCo Toynbee.”

    Heh. had to goggle and then think for a moment…
    tbogg, g1.

    (and a reminder that he does occasionally write about something besides all things Palin.)

  93. 93.

    Bill Murray

    @Corner Stone: rootless_e is on the frontpage, that’s a pretty big clue right there. The articles on the front page all seem to be anti-emo progressive/professional left, fee-fee hurt rants. not many facts in evidence when hippie bashing. there ere some facts when they attacked the right, but then hippies aren’t respectable enough to deserve facts.

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