Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

No one could have predicted…

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Republicans in disarray!

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

You are here: Home / Politics / Glibertarianism / Underachievers Please Try Harder

Underachievers Please Try Harder

by | 135 Comments

This post is in: 

Here’s one of the ACLU’s advocacy efforts for the week:

Here’s one from Reason:

August 20 is Lemonade Freedom Day! In response to a rash of kids’ lemonade stands shut down for lack of licenses, permits, or other bureaucratic devices, father-of-two Robert Fernandes launched a site to promote a big citrusy celebration this Saturday. So go find some young ‘uns and get ready to help them set up a lemonade stand for liberty.

If anyone ever asks why we use the term “glibertarian” around here, give them a link to this post.

(Both via EDK)

Update: Just in case it isn’t clear, the point is that the ACLU is doing their usual excellent advocacy job on a substantive issue, while Reason picked some sideshow to highlight.

Reader Interactions

135Comments

  3. 3.

    Alwhite

    While I agree that more prisons and more prisoners is not the answer I think the ACLU has produced a giant softball that any room temp IQ or above (so even Bobo) can whack out of the park thereby ignoring their point.

  5. 5.

    Linda Featheringill

    Lemonade stands are suburban middle class. Nobody else participates in that sort of thing. [You need foot traffic, some disposable income, and safety for the young business people.]

    On the other hand, Reason is probably suburban middle class, too, and not directed at the rest of us.

  7. 7.

    MBL

    Grr. I hate it when advocacy organizations that I share goals with (like the ACLU) pull crap like that chart.

    Somebody find me a wrist to slap.

  9. 9.

    Southern Beale

    Meanwhile, over in the land of Gannett, a shoddy piece of fearmongering reporting on the Tennessee Board Of Parole & Probation’s “phone-in” tracking program, which allows some parolees to phone in with their parole officers instead of in-person, has caused quite an uproar. It lumped perfectly good citizens, people who have done their time and gone on with their lives and been “rehabilitated” in with dangerous felons, all to further their “dangerous criminals! Lax oversight! They’re comin’ fer yer guns and white wimmin!” message.

  10. 10.

    sparky

    gotta agree with #3.
    additionally, the people at the ACLU are not stupid, so that leaves the unsettling probability that they think the general public is. not that they are wrong, necessarily, but this is a rather cynically-minded piece of work. or really stupid.

    or was the point of this post that the ACLU can screw up too, though in a “better” way?

  11. 11.

    superluminar

    yet again, glibertarian fluffer mistermix gives approval to link-whore ED Kain and the Reason people, i hav neeww def. of libertarian = a wingnut with a college degreee and a lemonadestand. ballonjuice cannot be prostelytized by glibertarians as it is immune, this is my unified theory of WAI: BJ IQ is too high compared to reasonIQ…

    I think that about covers it…

  15. 15.

    MagicPanda

    And here I thought the good folks at Reason only cared about the rights of corporations, not people. As it turns out, they also care about making symbolic gestures to champion the rights of cute young humans who are pretending to be tiny corporations.

  16. 16.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @geg6: But, but, Obama doesn’t use the bully pulpit! Not enough! Too late!

    nb4 firebagger/obot clash.

  19. 19.

    El Cid

    Our billion dollar news media once again manage to prioritize the important issues in their coverage of manly manly big Texas gun-totin’ man Rick Perry.

    From his first “Howdy!” to the frequent thumbs-up gestures that punctuate his speeches, Rick Perry may seem over-the-top folksy to many who are watching him for the first time.
    __
    But for those who share his cultural past, if not his political persuasions, Perry is sending a clear message, easily understood by a select but global group of insiders. That “Howdy” is akin to a password. The thumbs up a shared signal of determination. Translation: “I am a proud Texas Aggie.” That’s what graduates of Texas A&M are called. Perry is Class of 1972…
    __
    To outsiders, it is hard to grasp the impact A&M has on many of its students. But stand for a moment or two in the quad outside the Corps barracks and listen to the Aggie band play the music from the movie Patton, hear the bugles echo off the walls, and it is quickly apparent this is a place that compels loyalty and inspires friendship. Here traditions go beyond wearing hog hats or driving backwards on campus. The most famous traditions are Silver Taps and Aggie Muster…
    __
    This is the stuff that Perry, a young West Texas farm boy with a cheery smile and a penchant for mischief, absorbed as he arrived in Aggieland in 1968. Perry came to College Station at a crucial time in the university’s history, recalls former Democratic Texas Land Commissioner Garry Mauro (Class of ’70)…
    __
    Back when they were in school together, Mauro recalls, Perry did not strike anyone as a future governor, let alone presidential candidate. But, he says, the signs of his conservative leanings and dogged campaigning abilities were there.
    __
    Unable to run for elective student office due to mediocre grades in his first three years at A&M, Perry finally achieved a 2.5 average in his senior year and ran for yell leader.
    __
    Mauro, one of the last liberal Democrats to hold statewide office in Texas in recent years, says Perry exhibited a conservative, “reactionary” bent in his campus campaign. “He was one of the most popular guys in the corps,” Mauro says, but he had a “mean streak” when it came to campaigning, urging his followers not to say “howdy” to women students and non-corps members, according to Mauro. “He got [Corps] outfits in his class behind him and marched his supporters to the polls,” Mauro says. The episode may have been an omen of Perry’s future political career…
    __
    What Freeman and other Aggies fear is that the world-class university and the first to open its college military ranks to females (in 1973, three years before West Point) will become a punching bag for late night comedians. But Mauro suggests that if Perry succeeds, their alma mater likely will deserve closer study. With no small amount of pride, he says, “If he becomes president, everybody will be going to A&M to figure it out.”

    Such cynicism about and liberal news reporter hatred for Republicans is a true scandal of the librul drive-by medja.

    Thankfully, few will make it to those boring final paragraphs urging caution and noting that another Texan fake populist college cheerleader mean Governor is aiming to take the Preznitzy, and instead will walk away with the knowledge gained in those first few paragraphs that Rick Perry is a loyal Aggie which helped his farm boy charm and who bravely used Corps values to avoid being corrupted by the establishment, and if he becomes President, Texas A&M will get more media attention…

  21. 21.

    WereBear

    I wish I had a nickel for everytime one of these loons attempts to explain why punitive, nasty, and coercive methods work for everything, from a stubborn pickle jar to a child abused and ignored since birth.

    They are especially stupid about the pitfalls of authoritarian child-rearing; and we had a murder recently, to show how not obvious it can be to not beat a child to death.

    Thus, love of prisons!

  22. 22.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Alwhite: Yeah, but it’s not like the right has paid attention to reality before. If we had to take into account the wingers reactions to every fact written, we couldn’t publish anything. And then they would win.

  24. 24.

    Jay in Oregon

    I started to watch this Thom Hartmann clip about the amazing disappearing Ron Paul in the discussion of the Republican candidates, and when it got to his guest, Mike Riggs of Reason, I had to turn it off because Riggs’ smugness just got to be too much.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT#p/u/14/T15dvpnwPJo

    First, he answered Hartmann’s question of “Would you vote for Ron Paul?” by proudly stating he was a “principled non-voter”, then started talking about how he liked Gary Johnson “if he was going to vote for anyone”.

  26. 26.

    Southern Beale

    I read WingNut Daily so you don’t have to:

    Is ‘fix’ in to sink ratings for Rush, Savage, other conservatives?

    __
    ‘By falsifying numbers this way, liberals can kill talk radio’

    __
    A few years ago, Arbitron began phasing out diaries and brought in the Portable People Meters, or PPMs. These pager-sized devices automatically record whatever their wearers hear as they go about their day. No need to rely upon fallible human memories, or worry about diarists “fudging” their feedback or forgetting to send it in.
    __
    The PPM sounded like the accurate, scientific ratings system sponsors and programmers always hoped would be invented.
    __
    Until the first batch of ratings came in, showing conservative talk going strong and certain, urban and minority programs far lower than ever calculated before.
    __
    Faced with the new numbers, community leaders suddenly turned on the PPMs, blasting the new system as “racist.”
    __
    Or at least they were, until Arbitron was pressured by powerful political forces to “fix” its new ratings system.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    Right wing wackadoodle talk radio isn’t failing, it’s going strong! It’s all an evul librul conspiracy started by those uppity brown people just to make it LOOK like no one listens to Rush anymore!

    HA HA HA HA HA

  27. 27.

    Samara Morgan

    @superluminar: nope, a glibertarian does it for pageclicks.
    they all all expect to be paid for their “thotz” because they are soooo much more enlightened than the rest of the proles.

    Like always, I’ll just link some of some of my favorite Kain Krapology from his own blog where mistermix, glibertarian fluffer, apparently doesnt read.

    I’ve cooled on the idea of unions lately, at least in their current form, and have had a number of really good conversations in the past couple of days after writing this post, about unions and particularly teachers unions.
    __
    Certainly teachers unions represent a major obstacle to reform of our education system.

    if i may remind you juicers, Kain parleyed his pulpit here into a paid gig at Forbes, a union roundtable, and the presidents ear.
    Might as well link Douthat and McArdle, mistermix.
    @Jay in Oregon: you know who else likes GaJo?
    EDK is who. He’d vote for him too.

  28. 28.

    El Cid

    If this is true, it’s a very good thing for Libya and North Africa and the Middle East in general.

    Embattled Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi may be preparing to flee the country within days, according to NBC News.
    __
    U.S. officials told NBC that intelligence reports suggest Gaddafi is in the process of making plans to evacuate from Libya with his family. The reports indicate he may be headed to Tunisia, where it is possible he will be granted exile.

    First (for me) it means that my feeling (and statements) that I didn’t see a clear victory for the anti-Qaddafi forces as most likely (I hoped for one) but rather a messy continuation were wrong, assuming the pro-Qaddafi forces as actually constituted by rival regional interests (“tribes”) don’t continue with a lower intensity continued civil war.

    Second, it’s at least the chance for a at least a semi-centralized government to be not just less repressive but a much more functional government than the pathetic Iraqi non-state. Which is anything but a suggestion of a uniform trend toward a better life once the quick advances of it just not being Qaddafi are achieved.

    Patrick Cockburn, among many very long-time regional and Libya reporters and analysts and researchers, advocates extreme caution with portraying the rebel coalition as thoroughly trustworthy forces. But it’s the opportunity for history versus a crumbling stagnation.

  35. 35.

    Samara Morgan

    @superluminar: the Mistermix Axiom of the Unified Field Theory of Libertarianism– all libertarians expect to be PAID for the infinitely superior intellectual property of their thoughts…..sooner or later….and I (mistermix) am going to help them get there!

    AMG can you believe this crap?

    Maybe there is a way to make unions and a highly fluid, highly competitive market work together.

    The pompous little assclown just cant quit the Free Market Fantasy Forest, can he?

  36. 36.

    Samara Morgan

    @El Cid:

    the pathetic Iraqi non-state

    ?? WTF el Campeador?
    2.5 million Iraqi citizens just signed a petiton to tell America to GTFO in December.
    sounds like a functioning democracy to me.
    thats the equivalent of ~35 million americans signing a petition.

  37. 37.

    Samara Morgan

    why dont you just mainline that glibertarian asswhipe Yglesias directly mistermix?
    all Kain does is link him.
    quit with the fucking skin pops….just go full-frontal glibertarian, mistermix, and shoot up the full strength glibertarian smack.

  38. 38.

    Aimai

    Yes reason is dumb and the ACLU is good but the ACLU flyer is terrible. The average person won’t have the faintest idea what is going on in the graph or why it matters. A strong photo of a sweet looking kid behind bars that morphs into a tattoed lifer would be better.

    with the legend

    in prison I learned from the best teachers. Now I’m returning the favor!

    At the bottom the flyer should say

    ny reduced prisons and crime ask how your state can do the same.

    Aimai

  39. 39.

    Samara Morgan

    @mistermix: why dont you take a swing yourself?
    instead of repackaging glibertarian crapology dor the juicers.
    go for it.
    Link Yglesias directly.
    you know you want to.

  40. 40.

    chopper

    it’s like summoning Beetlejuice, only way more annoying and not the slightest bit funny.

  41. 41.

    MikeBoyScout

    So the upshot from the intellects at Reason is that those who lost their jobs manufacturing things and took a job at Walmart and lost that should no longer be considering going all independent capitalist and opening a Lemonade Stand to support their family?

    Dear Reasonoids, should they sell apples on the street?

  42. 42.

    Paul in KY

    IMO, everyone who posts here (other than a few dicks) needs to be a member of the ACLU. I am.

  43. 43.

    Paul in KY

    @El Cid: I fucking hate Texas A & M. Was bummed out when I thought they were coming into SEC. Just what UK needs, another great football school to whomp on us.

    Now that I know ‘Chaps’ is a grad of that school, I hate them even more.

  47. 47.

    Amir Khalid

    @chopper:
    I may have missed this, or maybe it happened elsewhere; but what’s her beef with ED Kain anyway? With me, I know, it’s her insistence that I’m infatuated with the West (an odd accusation, coming from a Muslim Westerner).

  48. 48.

    dpCap

    Those lemonade stories always pissed me off in how much of a lie they are. The reason the police are shutting down these “kids” (even though they’re really just set up by their glibtarian parents) is because the other street vendors were threatening to kill them and the police didn’t want a street level brawl over rights to sell lemonade!

    Jebuz, you’d think these people assume they live alone in this world and when they want to do something, everyone one else is just expected to get out of their way.

  49. 49.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid: i said you were CHARMED by the west. and im not sure you can claim to be a muslim and ignore shariah and quranic exegesis.
    but wat ev.

  51. 51.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid:

    what’s her beef with ED Kain anyway?

    i loathe glibertarians…Kain, de Bore ,Yglesias, GG, they are alla same.
    crypto-conservative free market fucktard spin..

  58. 58.

    Ash Can

    Yeah, like matoko is old enough to drink.

    As for Reason, straw men have been their bread and butter for years. If they had to rely consistently on actual substantive issues they wouldn’t exist.

  61. 61.

    Matt

    For bonus glibertarian points, Reason should have included a sidebar explaining just exactly how much urine you can put in lemonade (to reduce costs, natch) before people can taste it. After all, that’s the profit-maximizing solution… ;)

  63. 63.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    someone who pumps out the same moronic gibberish boilerplate you vomit up every time someone mentions the three letters “E”, “D” and “K” together doesn’t get to talk about ‘contributions’. you’re like jack chick on a cup of LSD.

  66. 66.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    you got banned for being an annoying stalker. being right once had nothing to do with it.

    as it stands, you just came back even more annoying than before.

  68. 68.

    MattR

    I love that Reason’s “rash of incidents” is an article from this year that lists two incidents as well as three other articles from the past 6 years. Sounds like a real epidemic to me.

  69. 69.

    Amir Khalid

    @MattR:
    It’s a very mild rash, I guess. One only a hypochondriac would even notice, let alone demand treatment for.

  70. 70.

    gwangung

    @Amir Khalid: It’s not odd when you realize m_c is a racist bigot in denial, who doesn’t value observations from non-whites, even when (or maybe most especially) when those observations are about non-whites themselves.

  75. 75.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    no. here is the thread. you didn’t link shit, you got banned for attacking mixie for posting news stories about the shootings and tried to make it another tired ‘you love EDK!! admit you’re an asshole for loving EDK!!’ bits. doug gave you a time out because you’re a douchebag with behavioural issues, not because you turned out later to be right about the ethnicity of the shooter.

  77. 77.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: i linked this post.…and pointed out Kain is no different than Jennifer Rubin.
    when you get blacklisted it disappears your last 2 or 3 comments.
    Ax DougJ.
    he gave me the timeout.

    tried to make it another tired ‘you love EDK!! admit you’re an asshole for loving EDK!

    i dont know if mistermix loves EDK. i think mistermix is an asswhipe for trying to direct traffic to Kains Forbes blog while ignoring the epic glibertarian freemarket fuckery Kain posts at the LoOG.

  78. 78.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid: how does being infatuated with the West effectively differ from being charmed by it?

    are you really sincere? i doubt it.
    n/e ways…
    infatuated implies an illogical, thoughtless intoxication. charmed means….i think you see the good things in western culture, and naively think Islam can be magically “reformed” to include them.

  79. 79.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper:

    not because you turned out later to be right about the ethnicity of the shooter.

    i was also RIGHT about EDK. hes a JAFI.
    :)

  80. 80.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: mistermix is trying to rehabilitate Kain, to legitimize him, by farming pageclicks for his Forbes blog and linking posts the juicers will mostly agree with.

    i think mistermix should just go comment at Forbes and the LoOG.
    im never going to stop linking the glibertarian crapology the LoOG churns out.
    unless of course i get another “timeout”.

  81. 81.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    so again, you got banned for being an insufferable douchebag.

    when you get blacklisted it disappears your last 2 or 3 comments.

    oh, i forgot, you’ve been banned before. clearly, also because you posted a link to EDK, right? nothing to do with being a stalker freakshow?

  82. 82.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid: that is the thing about arabic…you can usually get the exact, precise word you want.
    like theres 77 different words for different kinds of love.

  83. 83.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    mistermix is trying to rehabilitate Kain, to legitimize him, by farming pageclicks for his Forbes blog and linking posts the juicers will mostly agree with.

    clearly, it’s a conspiracy.

  84. 84.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: i got banned initially for saying that dead missionaries get what they ask for on the Evil Poor Black Muslim Somali Pirates kill Noble Rich White Christian American Missionaries thread.
    Cole said that was appalling.
    so he does understand what im sayin’.
    :)

  85. 85.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: well you explain it then. i can show links…at least twice a week mistermix links Kains Forbes blog. He NEVAH links the LoOG because you guys might see things like this.
    and like i said, Forbes is gettin’ ready to shitcan Kain for lack of traffic.
    I dunno, but that seems to me like an abuse of front page privs….mebbe i should ax Cole.
    :)

  86. 86.

    Amir Khalid

    @Corner Stone:
    Why, that’s absolutely correct! However did you guess?

    And now, back to my Friday night’s entertainment…
    @Samara Morgan:
    I wonder if you’re aware that during its Golden Age, Islam had a great deal of influence on Europe’s culture and intellectual development. Indeed, Europe would likely not have had a Renaissance without exposure to what was then the most advanced, and progressive, culture on their side of the Eurasian landmass.

    So no, I don’t see what’s good in Western culture as necessarily opposed to Islamic culture, or even different from it. In fact, I wish Islam had maintained its Golden Age progressiveness. This would have been a different and better world had it done so.

  87. 87.

    Amir Khalid

    @Samara Morgan:

    i got banned initially for saying that dead missionaries get what they ask for on the Evil Poor Black Muslim Somali Pirates kill Noble Rich White Christian American Missionaries thread.
    __
    Cole said that was appalling.

    Great. But do you understand why it was appalling?

  88. 88.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid: so i think you dont understand al-Islam. One of my shayyks says al-Islam is a process.

    and this is what i say.
    wa yuzhira bihi sirrahu ilayhi
    do you understand apotheosis and creative ambiguity?

    @Amir Khalid: i understand why Cole and the BJ commentariat think its appalling…..but isnt it my free speech right to say it?
    and i dont think its appalling.
    its the truth.

  89. 89.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    maybe, just maybe, mixie likes some of EDK’s posts and links to them accordingly? i know, sounds implausible compared to an unproven conspiracy theory that they’re in cohoots to bring up kain’s pageviews.

    then again, maybe i’m part of the conspiracy. kain pays me to argue with you to distract everyone from the truth.

  91. 91.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid: And i wonder if you are aware that Imam Ghazali postulated many worlds theory 400 years before the christians tried to burn Galileo?
    or aware that Ibn Arabi’s Time and Cosmology parallels Sean Carroll’s From Eternity to Here in its core elements?

  93. 93.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: well, that is why i got banned.
    i think missionariism is evil and missionaries get what they deserve if they are killed while proselytizing.

  95. 95.

    Amir Khalid

    @Samara Morgan:

    I’m not quite sure what it is you’re trying to say in comment #91. There’s supposed to be an argument in there that’s germane to what we’re discussing, right?

    You don’t agree that what you said about the Christian missionaries was appalling, so you must not understand why it is: Nobody deserves to be murdered. Got that? Not even for being a murderer. Certainly not for being a missionary, even though you may hate missionaries with the burning fury of a thousandty billion suns going all kablooey-supernova.

  98. 98.

    chopper

    maybe it goes deeper. i emailed cole about the conspiracy and he quickly replied “Mistermix is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”

  99. 99.

    keestadoll

    This post has truly inspired me to take action. I’m FIRED UP!!!! GLOVES ARE OFF AND IT’S TIME TO CONFRONT DA MAN!

    I think I’ll start by opening a lemonade stand in front of our local police station.

  100. 100.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid: sure people deserve to be murdered.
    George Bush deserves to be murdered, for example.
    if one is willing to die for Jeebus, well, knock yourself out.
    if one is willing to die for Allah, go for that too.
    they all deserve EXACTLY what they asked for……martyrdom.

    bi la kayfah

  101. 101.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper:

    “Mistermix is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”

    im sure that is true.
    hes also giving Kain mercy links at Forbes so he doesnt get shitcanned for lack of traffic. He is kind and wunnerful to glibertarians also.
    idc.
    do what you like, it doesnt make any difference.
    Bury your heart at Wounded Knee or bury your uterus at Waco, its all the same.

  102. 102.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Samara Morgan: Irony, sarcasm, and snark just fly right past you, don’t they? As do nuance and subtlety.

    @Samara Morgan: So you are saying that you are in favor of murder? That alone says an awful lot about you.

  103. 103.

    Samara Morgan

    @Omnes Omnibus: im in favor of murdering George Bush. Or Hitler. Or Mussolini or Stalin or Pol Pot or Idi Amin Dada or Ayatollah Khomeni or Richard Speck or Jeffery Dahmer.
    so?

  104. 104.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Samara Morgan: I will just suggest that you figure out the difference between kill and murder. If you do that and still stick with your choice of phrasing, well, then….

  106. 106.

    George Donnelly

    Where is the post where I can find out all the great substantive issues you are making progress on, so I can learn from you? This lemonade thing is so sideshow, so give me some main course. Please provide links.

  107. 107.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Samara Morgan: Ah, but there is, and if you were as intelligent as you think you are you would have figured out that someone wouldn’t just make a suggestion like that for no reason. Then you would have done a little research and avoided embarrassing yourself further. I am going to go watch the Packer game now; feel free to wallow in your ignorance.

  110. 110.

    chopper

    @Samara Morgan:

    im in favor of murdering George Bush. Or Hitler. Or Mussolini or Stalin or Pol Pot or Idi Amin Dada or Ayatollah Khomeni or Richard Speck or Jeffery Dahmer.

    or christian missionaries! ♫ one of these things is not like the other…♫

  111. 111.

    El Cid

    @Samara Morgan: Whether it was Iraq or Sweden or the Abbasid caliphates, how on Earth does the number of people signing a petition help determine the centralized power of the bureaucratic nation-state?

    For example, if in Somalia 90% of the population were to sign some petition for any subject whatsoever, would this mean that Somalia currently possessed a coherent nation-state?

    Second, the existence of a centralized nation-state does not in itself suggest anything positive; North Korea is an extremely centralized nation-state, yet it’s not commonly quoted as a more desirable alternative to mixed degrees of chaos.

    I think you have things you want to say, and you’re just waiting for a chance to say them, and then when you see things which vaguely remind you of the things you wanted to say anyway, you go ahead and stick them there, because what’s important is that you wanted to say something, and if it’s irrelevant to what someone else has said, or if you don’t grasp what it would mean to be relevant or irrelevant, well, that just means that that other person is prejudiced against you.

  112. 112.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: again, i did not say i was “in favor of murdering xian missionaries”. i SAID if they get dead then they get what they deserve. those who seek martrydom often find it.

    @El Cid: YOU SAID “the pathetic Iraqi non-state” .
    They seem to be functioning to me, and i read a lot on iraq.
    For example, people vote, they have multiple parties that are all uniting right now in their common fervent desire to see America GTFO.
    how are they not a state and why are they “pathetic’?
    because they are rudely showing America the door instead of expressing proper gratitude for America’s invasion, occupation, and slaughter of their citizens and destruction of their infrastructure?

  113. 113.

    Samara Morgan

    @chopper: what does my loathing for Proselytizers have to with mistermix sneakily directing pageclicks to Forbes to help Kain keep his paid gig?

    nothing.

  114. 114.

    Samara Morgan

    If anyone ever asks why we use the term “glibertarian” around here

    wallah…..could it be because you link glibertarians like Kain?

  115. 115.

    Amir Khalid

    @Samara Morgan:

    again, i did not say i was “in favor of murdering xian missionaries”. i SAID if they get dead then they get what they deserve.

    Let’s see if I understand this: you don’t think that people should actively set out to murder Christian missionaries. But it’s okay with you if Christian missionaries get murdered in the course of missionarying, because they deserve it — presumably for being missionaries, whom you hate.

    Yes, I can definitely see you considering that a morally acceptable position.

    those who seek martrydom often find it.

    You seem to be missing the distinction between willingness to die for a cause, and intent to die for a cause. The former is acceptance of the risk of (for example) military service. The latter is what leads to suicide bombers.

  119. 119.

    Yutsano

    @Omnes Omnibus: A) How old do you think I am? :)

    B) Her physical age is not why I label her a child. Her emotional age suggests she thinks in an immature and juvenile fashion. The label is proper, in my estimation. YMMV.

  125. 125.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yutsano: Age, in many ways, is really just a number. Yes, there are some physical changes, but they can be ameliorated. Mentally, though, you are as old as your mind is. I think I have stayed young. Also, someone, perhaps Oscar Wilde (easy to attribute things to him), said that by 50 every man has the face he deserves.

  127. 127.

    Samara Morgan

    @Amir Khalid:

    You seem to be missing the distinction between willingness to die for a cause, and intent to die for a cause. The former is acceptance of the risk of (for example) military service. The latter is what leads to suicide bombers.

    that is a false difference. i do not see any difference between xian missionaries and suicide bombers.
    they are both willing to die to make a point.
    you must also consider the selection gradient. its stupid to proselytize in shariah law states, in majority muslim nations.
    Because proselytizing can be punishable by death in muslim states.
    S overeign nations have DIFFERENT LAWS than America.
    that is the whole point of this discussion.
    The Noble Quran mandates a proportionate response to proselytizers– YOU do not get to decide what the Quran means by that, just like YOU dont get to decide if shariah law is compatible with free speech.

  129. 129.

    El Cid

    @Samara Morgan:

    how are they not a state and why are they “pathetic’?
    __
    because they are rudely showing America the door instead of expressing proper gratitude for America’s invasion, occupation, and slaughter of their citizens and destruction of their infrastructure?

    Why would you think — irrespective of the facts — that criticizing the weak nature of the centralized Iraqi state would express opposition to Iraqi efforts (at the party or popular level) to expel US forces?

    Do you even understand what you say? Do you even ask yourself if some statement even contradicts the thing you want to say?

    Again, I could be entirely in favor of Iraq expelling US forces (and other civilian similar forces), or entirely in opposition to such moves.

    And either perspective would be unrelated to evaluations of the centralized capacity of the Iraqi nation state.

    I don’t think you’ll understand that point. But you won’t care anyway, because you already have the thing you want to say.

  131. 131.

    Samara Morgan

    @El Cid: Iraq is already leaning towards an alliance with Iran. But the Iraqi government needs to expell America because Iran is America’s sworn enemy, because of Operation Ajax, Israel, the Shah, etc.
    Qom and Karbala will become one, in the new virtual shi’ia caliphate.
    Muqtada is plotting to become the new Sistani– he just spent 3 years studying in Iran, exactly like Sayyid Ali al Sistani did.
    is it that you just dont understand the ground game here?

  133. 133.

    El Cid

    @Samara Morgan: Not a single one of those words had anything to do with what I said.

    Not one of those statements had anything to do with the ability of a central state to function throughout its territory.

    You do this every single fucking time. You always hallucinate that someone simply must be supporting American / Western / Christian policy or whatever against your outline of what is happening.

    Why?

    Because you didn’t say it. If you didn’t say something, then, clearly, it’s by someone who supports a US presence in Iraq and who hates the Muslim world and so on and so forth.

    That’s why when I’m interested in what’s going on in NA/ME/SA/Pac regarding the Muslim world, I read directly from a variety of local and regional sources, Muslim and otherwise. Not you.

    But then, because the preceding paragraph was not written by you, clearly it means that I am a pro-imperialist dupe who doesn’t understand that blah blah blah.

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