A few weeks ago in the comments, one of you wrote that it’s impossible to understand contemporary politics without following Fox, right-wing radio, and the winger blogs. I think that is true. For example, yesterday my mom told me that grandmother picked up this meme from right-wing radio that Obama should deport all the illegal aliens to decrease unemployment, the idea being that the illegal aliens are taking jobs from real Americans. Later that day, when I was flipping through the dials, I heard a bit of a long discussion of this novel, Burkean economic initiative on the radio. Now, it is probably true that illegal immigration depresses wages, but a sudden mass deportation likely would be catastrophic for the economy. In short, it’s a crazy common-sense-sounding idea that no president would ever implement.
Occasionally some serious person, usually at Slate or TNR or Kaplan, takes a fancy to a nutty winger idea (e.g. “death panels“, intelligent design, eugenicism light), and it becomes something I, and probably most of you, hear “debated” on the Sunday shows or the Atlantic blogs or whatever. Mostly, the memes fly under the radar of reality-based observers, but even then, I think they do have a political effect.
Do any of you follow Fox, right-wing radio, and the winger blogs? I used to but at a certain point, I found it all too stupid and depressing so now I can’t do it anymore. What would people think of a once or twice a week open thread where people summarize all the nuttiness flying around in the wingosphere?
Gozer
Why are you trying to kill us DougJ?
Brian R.
Opposition research. I like it.
Samara Morgan
i read AllahP religiously.
:)
gnomedad
I can’t do it either. I come here to get updates from people with stronger stomachs. If I were responsible for someone’s campaign strategy, I’d have to make myself do it. The post title sums it up nicely.
This stuff is bad enough when regarded as invective; what really scares me is to stop and reflect that millions of people actually believe this stuff.
Spaghett iLee
My post got eated, so, what gnomedad said.
JGabriel
One possible starting point would be to simply link Roy Edroso’s weekly Rightblogger columns at Village Voice.
That wouldn’t catch the nuttiness at Fox Propaganda or in fascist radio, but it’s a start on the wingnut blogger circuit — though we’re always covering that here to a lesser extent too, aren’t we?
.
Randiego
Jon Stewart’s bit about the GOP wailing about those lucky ducky poors not paying any taxes took me by surprise. What evil bastards. Apparently some of their stellar Presidential candidates are also pushing this.
Ron Beasley
Not to mention the fact that most of us would starve to death.
JGabriel
DougJ @ Top:
E.g., Paul Ryan’s dreamy blue eyes and Devo hair piece.
.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I can’t even watch the non-Fox Sunday shows anymore, but I’d be curious to see what’s going on in Wingerville.
I was thinking about this the other day, the alternate universe they live in, when Bachmann got called on wishing Elvis a happy birthday on the anniversary of his fatal bowel movement, she said “I forgot my teleprompter”. I suspect to 99% of the country that meant nothing, but to her people, Palin’s people, Beck’s people, that was a brilliant zinger.
gnomedad
One of the payoffs of extremism is that your “ideas” (please, God) never get put to the test so you can rant about them indefinitely.
ThresherK
Do any of you follow Fox, right-wing radio, and the winger blogs?
Not much; I avail myself of the badasses who can stomach it and rightfully claim “We do this so you don’t have to”.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
I listen to Boortz at noon because he has Jamie Dupree on from DC and Jamie doesn’t take any of his bullshit.
MattF
I’m against it. Part of the psychological tactics of cults is to have an ever-changing standard of ‘truth’ handed down from the fearless leader– the cult member has to spend time and attention to follow the latest directives in order to prove his or her loyalty.
Following the latest Fox/Limbaugh line without being a believer is just doing the hard part of being a winger and then not getting the bliss of social reinforcement.
Shawn in ShowMe
That’s what the Villagers are for. The Villagers embrace the wingnut memes, write love letters to the wingnuts and then we throw rotted fruit at both of ’em. But if you and John want to hang out at wingnut coffee houses all day to get teh crazy first-hand, knock yourselves out.
gnomedad
MyRightWingDad deserves a mention here.
kansi
What did Michele say was the first rule of warfare? Oh, yeah. Know your enemy. This is a great idea, Doug, but I am not sure my blood pressure could the it.
Jewish Steel
I thought You Read Those Idiots So I Don’t Have To.
I’d love a thread like that, but only to read. I don’t have the stomach for that dreck. Further, once you understand the psychological and philosophical underpinnings of the conservative movement, the rest is just point and laugh.
Violet
I listen to Rush Limbaugh, if I’m in the car at that time of day, and I feel like I can stomach him that day. Some weeks I catch some of his program most days. Other weeks not at all. I have reported here what I’ve heard and would be happy to do it again.
JGabriel
Do any of you follow Fox, right-wing radio, and the winger blogs?
I check Red State and Free Republic from time time to time, particularly if the Democrats recently had a success, for the schadenfreude, or if there’s been a tragedy somewhere, so I can watch the right confirm their inhuman awfulness in real time.
.
jeffreyw
Who has the time to follow even our own side? I’m too busy cooking and raising orphans.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@jeffreyw: Did you get that off my front porch? Lil dude is tormenting Bohdi day in and day out.
Baud
Ha! I stopped reading certain liberal blogs because I couldn’t stomach the constant attacks on Democrats. Right-wing media would make me mental.
I used to listen to Christian radio and TV for a while because I found that whole culture fascinating. After about a year, however, they start recycling the same material over again.
Kane
One doesn’t need to follow Fox, right-wing radio, and the winger blogs to know what the daily right-wing narrative is. The narratives bleed into all other forms of media, whether they are regurgitated as fact or used as a never-ending debate-entertainment or whether they are offered as outrage du jour.
I don’t watch Fox and have never listened to Limbaugh or any of the other usual suspects, but on a daily basis in the web-media, cable news, and blogs, their daily offerings are provided. Why that is, I don’t know. But it’s all so unproductive.
TruthOrScare
I read RedState pretty regularly but find that’s as far into the sewer as I can stomach. WhirledNutsDaily and its ilk are too grotesque. The fact that RedState rigidly enforces the party line by banning any who dare to even question makes it pretty easy to scan through the outrageous outrages being pushed to the rubes and see which have real ‘legs’ (as measured by the amount or length of focus on that ‘outrage’) and therefore likely to become a mainstream meme. I also figure that the fact ErickSonOfErick is himself considered a “mainstream” commentator makes it likely that whatever he’s pushing is on the verge of or already seeping into the mainstream media. I’d be willing to do some reporting from RedState.
Bubblegum Tate
I follow one winger blog. I find that’s pretty much all it takes, as they all sing from the same hymnal. But I have to walk away from it every so often because while it can funny/informative to drop by regularly, being exposed to that sort of toxic idiocy day in and day out can really have an effect on you. I’ve heard the same thing from friends who go visit their all-Fox News, all the time parents: “You have that shit pounded into your head 8 hours a day every day, you start suffering adverse effects.”
Mustang Bobby
If you watch enough MSNBC they will provide you with a sample of right-wing nutsery groomed for prime time. Chris Matthews and Ed Schultz regularly have some guy named Ken (forgot his last name) who is an earnest and nerdy approach with the added feature of being African American so he can get away with saying shitty things about President Obama without going all Pat Buchanan on his ass.
I realize that MSNBC plucks the easy targets out of the right wing bullpen to run counterpoint to the lefties, but if you listen to them, they have the majority of the Fox/Ailes/Rove talking points to give you an idea of what’s out there.
boss bitch
I don’t follow or listen to right wing anything. I get all my right wing news from left wing blogs. The comments section of certain sites also give me an idea of what’s going on over there.
malraux
I read the Fark/Politics tab, but I suspect that its mostly mods trolling for clicks more than anything.
forked tongue
Elvis Costello reference!
This is part of the game with DougJ’s posts, right?
jeffreyw
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Mrs J carted her home today. The momma cat and all the rest of the litter died. Li’l Bit is recovering from pneumonia, seems OK now.
Mustang Bobby
Slightly OT, but I’ve noticed that Fox News seems to be the default channel in a lot of places with TV’s in their waiting areas and such, like motel breakfast areas and airports. I was waiting for a flight out of Toledo Express Airport last week and all the TV’s in the departure lounge were on Fox. It was the third time I’ve had that happen in the last year. Last November, after enduring an hour of high-volume Fox, I sent an e-mail to the airport management inquiring if that was the only channel available. They wrote back and said that they rotated between Fox and CNN — as if they were polar opposites — and that it was just a coincidence that I was subjected to it again. Yeah, right.
Next time, I’m flying out of Detroit.
KCinDC
I’ve been aware of the libertarian obsession with lemonade stands, but somehow I’d missed out on Lemonade Freedom Day, which is today, and now people are being arrested at the Capitol here in DC (though I’m not sure what Congress has to do with local cops’ actions against lemonade stands).
I guess the hope is to turn this into a movement in support of the right to sell food and drink (and anything else) anywhere and anytime you like, with no regulations. Freedom! (And food poisoning!)
Dee Loralei
Tommy T over at First Draft goes Freeper diving every Monday, it’s on your blog roll. The Sadly Naughts often go to those places so we don’t have to get out of the boat. And Scott over at World O’Crap does it too. And so does Roy Edroso. Sheesh dude all of these people except WO’C are on your blog roll. And these people are all funny.
But yea, I think it’s a great idea to know your enemy. But as others have mentioned, much of the wingnut shit bubbles up through the regular MSM anyway, because everyone has Drudge on their speed dials. And because “it’s out there and people are talking about it”, so too are CNN and many folks at MSNBC.
But, yea, I’d read it for the laughs.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@jeffreyw: Aw man.
cleek
i do not give a shit what the hateful retarded assholes have to say. i pity the people who enjoy listening to/reading them, however.
Kane
@Mustang Bobby:
The “liberal” MSNBC offers conservative MorningJoe fifteen hours a week, and self-professed conservative Dylan Ratigan five hours a week. Republican commentators Pat Buchanan, Peggy Noonan, Michaeal Steele, Ron Christie, Mike Murphy and a long list of other GOP loyalists are paraded in throughout the day to provide their “insights” while stories are often presented with republican narratives.
Mino
My sister came at me with a meme, from e-mail, I suppose, that many of the founding fathers went to divinity school and thus religion belonged in politics. When I told her that was the primary form of higher education at that time, she acted like “duh, I should have known that.” Wingers just seem to stop using their brains.
eemom
dunno. Depends on whether this is one of your Weak Spots or one of your Strong Analyses.
Has your mentor weighed in yet?
p.a.
Fed Res San Fran has a study showing ill igs increase employment and wages of native-born: native English speakers get pushed into higher wage managerial positions to oversee immigrants (legal or not). Yglesias is invaluable for info like this.
dww44
@Randiego: Yes that zeroed in on the vileness, cruelty, and outright meanness of the right wing talking heads. Just a perfect crystallization. Have shared with a few family and friends whom I know don’t habitually watch the Daily Show. Now, I need to share it with the numerous others who are Republican, but I don’t have the time or energy to engage in any more flame wars. They will ALWAYS defend their side’s talking points. To the extent they all truly believe that the poor are poor because of their own shortcomings. And, that unlike power, all welfare corrupts absolutely. They covets the power, no matter how acquired.
By-the-bye it seems that Stewart doesn’t have a problem taking down the Foxes, but still wants to be viewed as an equal opportunity slayer of both the right and left, a tendency most on view in some of the fawning interviews he conducts, and in his weak, to me at least, takedowns of Obama.
Sawgrass Stan
I used to try and follow Newsmax, NRO, and Instapundit, but my blood pressure couldn’t take it. Really, I went and measured it.
I moved all the right wingers on my blogroll into a folder called “Assholes!” which I almost never open anymore. The “Winger Watch” thread is a good idea, but there will have to be a constant stream of new commenters as the inevitable brain-rot sets in.
Mike Jones
Ha. The Wall Street Journal published an op-ed yesterday touting the superiority of “common sense” over “fancy theories of macroeconomics.” You don’t even have to go as far as Fox to get high-octane stupid these days.
eemom
@cleek:
Quite this.
I never get how our good people enjoy checking out those sites and/or trolling them.
Hell, I don’t even get how people can stand to LISTEN to Palin, Bachmann, Gingrich, Trump, Cantor, McConnell, No-Boner, any of the right wing hacks, ad infinitum……ANY of them….even for purposes of mockery.
I do not voluntarily accept sensory input from people whose existence is loathsome to me, much less seek it out. To me that is like asking to get jabbed with a thousand red hot needles. When they come on the radio, I turn it off. When they come on the teevee, I lunge for the remote. When they appear in my newspaper on the OpEd page, I put it in the recycling bin.
People keep talking about how Perry sounds like Bush….does he? I will have to take their word for it, because I have yet to hear the creature speak.
cleek
@Mike Jones:
i’ll be more impressed with “fancy theories of macroeconomics” as soon as it ceases being obvious that economists are happy pulling theories out of their asses in order to justify whatever political position they prefer.
dww44
@Mustang Bobby: While I agree, that won’t change unless a number of us challenge the accepted practice. After 1/20/09 my mild-mannered dentist installed an up-near-the ceiling TV permanently tuned to Fox in his teeny-tiny (really small) waiting room. I challenged, but the station is still the same. Guess I need to vote with my feet, but I still think speaking out, respectfully and frequently, will eventually change things.
It’s just plain indicative of the lay of the land when most folks just benignly accept the sheer naturalness of Fox News being broadcast non-stop into their brains in public places. Down in the entirely rural, but way way right, small town where my Mom’s nursing home is (attached to the local hospital), even AA’s seem to accept the inevitability of a Fox monopoly on publicly viewed teevees. Until that practice is changed, or the network changes its meme, I don’t see much hope for turning this country away from perceived conservative conventional wisdom.
Robert Waldmann
If I worked for NPR I would be very irritated by this post. The text says Kaplan or slate or NPR and the examples are from Kaplan, Slate and the WSJ. It seems to me that you have made a very serious accusation against NPR without bothering to present any evidence.
I don’t work for NPR and have spent a total of about 1 hour in my life listening to NPR. I’m pretty sure I heard about Lake Wobegone but didn’t hear about intelligent death panels or eugenic design. I know almost exactly nothing about what NPR broadcasts. I just note the claim and the lack of supporting evidence in this post.
Mr Stagger Lee
@Jewish Steel: I think the blog Sadly,No. Goes to the sites so that you don’t have to. Anyway there is not enough cleaners in the world for me to go there besides, to much de-lousing will shorten my life.
Kewalo
I think it would make me ill to listen or read at the far right sites and I don’t listen to the radio. But if we have folks that do listen I would love to read their opinions.
I’m mostly a lurker, but something I know, the people who post here are very bright. So not only would we get what was going on the right, but their take on the issue too. That sounds win-win to someone like me.
Tom Hilton
Not as such, but I do a lot of arguing on a message board where those people are well represented, so I can infer the talking points from what wingnuts parrot there.
And I think a thread like that could be really valuable, especially if we take it as an opportunity to share and sharpen responses to the wingnut lines.
Robert Waldmann
Your proposal however is an excellent idea. Someone sane has to follow Fox. Someone should sacrifice their time and raise their blood pressure. Please.
No way that I am going to volunteer. I gave at the office. I would pay someone though (I mean media matters sort of does it, but a complete summary of Fox and not just the demonstrably wrong bits would be useful. Uh complete and very very brief).
Big Baby DougJ
@forked tongue:
Great song, underrated album, IMHO.
Big Baby DougJ
@Robert Waldmann:
TNR, not NPR. Easterbrook and Lane both worked for TNR.
Constance
I have no TV or radio at home but listen to NPR in the car. Yesterday I caught myself screaming at Rick Perry’s voice coming out of the speaker (he was discussing what Texans do to traitors such as Geithner) and realized NPR has become dangerous to my health and the health of other people on the highway with me. I returned the dial to the Spanish-language station where I understand nothing. I love Mexican pop music. It’s a win-win.
I am grateful to BJ for keeping me informed about the insanity. Somehow my rage level stays much lower and most commenters raise great points which I steal for the bi-weekly potluck. Very political group of liberal Democrats–no blue dogs allowed.
Mr Stagger Lee
@Mr Stagger Lee: I meant there are not enough of cleaners in the world for me to go to the R/W sites.
jharp
Yes, I follow some winger blogs. Lately I’ve been hanging around the Indianapolis Star following the tragedy of the stage collapse at the state fair.
Take a looksy. You’ll be stunned. The wingers believe it’s the concert goers fault that the stage fell on them.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110820/NEWS15/108200329/Stage-collapse-suits-seek-least-60M?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|IndyStar.com
Kewalo
@Mike Jones:
Of course that op-ed is written by Stephen Moore who is very often on MSNBC as an econ expert. This is the same man who wrote an op-ed in the WSJ back in Jan. 09 titled…
‘Atlas Shrugged’: From Fiction to Fact in 52 Years
I was disgusted my him two years ago and now he actively makes me ill.
jharp
Take the looksy in the comments section that is.
howard s
I follow winger blogs a bit. I could add a comment or two in an open thread.
Yutsano
@Constance:
You’re welcome.
cincyanon
@Ron Beasley: According to the Washington Post: “Since taking office, the Obama administration has implemented a far more aggressive immigration enforcement policy than the Bush administration…”
But you’d never know that if you followed Right Wing Media.
Sawgrass Stan
@cleek: I know, I know, I know, and it looks like most of us feel the same way.
When I tried to read winger blogs and news sites, it was after Limblow’s statement (paraphrase) “I don’t have to listen to liberals because I ALREADY KNOW what they think!” But after reading page after recycled page of “lazy welfare-bloodsuckers,” “failed stimulus,” “Obama Bin Laden,” “free markets will cure cancer!” and so on ad infinitum, I really couldn’t take anymore. So maybe Limblow is right– except he meant “conservatives.”
Roger Moore
“I Read These Morons So You Don’t Have To”: you’re doing it wrong.
Martin
The ‘deport everyone’ meme is a funny one. Undocumented immigrants outnumber all law enforcement at all levels (federal, state, local) by about 15:1.
They might as well say ‘Let’s arrest every single person living in the state of Illinois and deposit them in Mexico’, as though they’d go willingly, and as though you could even identify Illinois residents from Indiana residents. How the fuck does anyone think that’s even feasible, even if it was desirable and there was the will to do it?
Constance
@Robert Waldmann:
I listen to NPR in the car and while it is better than Faux news, it’s been moved to center and to “both sides do it.” With the exception of the BBC interviewers, who are unrelenting in pursuit of actual answers to hard-hitting questions, and Terry Gross most of the reporters are so kind to the people they interview that it might as well be Faux news.
Thank gawd I have the Spanish-language station on a saved button and can punch it without taking my eyes from the road.
Martin
@Mike Jones:
I’m telling you, before the election the wingnuts will be treating economics as just some liberal conspiracy, not unlike evolution. You watch. Econ departments are without question the most conservative lot at universities, and yet someone is going to float a bill before the end of next year in some state to stop funding the teaching of economics in state universities and the Fox News morons will be banging this drum 24/7.
Roger Moore
@cleek:
And I’ll be a lot more impressed with “common sense” when it reflects something other than the deep-seated prejudices of the person wielding it. For the time being, can we just agree to discard theories of economics that have already been proven false by this particular recession? That would include all the ones that say austerity is the fastest route to recovery.
Thymezone
I never have, do not now, and never will waste my time listening to a bunch of blathering lunatics. I don’t care what they think or what they say about anything. I don’t read them, watch them, listen to them, or think about them.
I don’t understand the people who are supposedly on our team, who do these things. Or who blog about them. Politics is a team sport. Do great sports teams sit around and obsess about the gossip of the other teams? They do not. They spend their time working on their game. That’s how they win. They work on their game. Because on game day, that’s what they have to bring to the field. Their game. All the rest is useless bullshit.
Constance
@Yutsano:
Thanks. Funny thing, on the station I listen to, female vocalists are about one to fifteen. Since I don’t understand Spanish I have no idea who any of the vocalists are.
Anonymous
I think it’d be very useful to have someone do this. I can only watch Fox TV for a few minutes at a time before I have to switch it off. (I can only stand Chris Matthews for maybe ten minutes longer.)
I have a rightwing friend who I see every month or so and he recently emailed me why he despises the left so much. It was weird. Basically lefties are violent and utterly incapable of telling the truth and their organizations like ACORN are hopelessly corrupt. I can barely imagine a world where leftwing violence in Wisconsin (yes, that was what he was talking about) and ACORN’s flaws are enormous issues , but if that’s the worst of it it sounds like utopia to me.
karen marie
@eemom: I recommend listening to Perry at least a little bit sooner than later. Get yourself sitting in a comfortable chair, or your bed, with a blanket and a strong beverage. If you wait until it happens accidentally, like, say, when you’re driving your car, you may get into an accident as a result of the shock to your system.
Calouste
@Mike Jones:
The WSJ is also owned by Murdoch. It’s really not very far from Fox.
Big Baby DougJ
@Thymezone:
Yes, great teams scout other teams carefully. Somtimes…they even film their practices.
Richard W. Crews
Absolutely! You should present the strongest stuff – straight up. We need to know what the nutcases are thinking – AND HOW THEY TALK!
This is very important! HOW THEY TALK!. I’m sure you have observed how you can’t use metaphors on a conservative. They don’t understand theoretical stuff – so you can’t use analogies.
It’s why we can’t communicate with them – why they can hold terribly dumb ideas for decades. Don’t you ever wonder why Conservatives are so confused about Cli8mate Change? It’s because we said the danger comes from warming, and they learned in the 1970’s that the Earth was going to cool. So, their head is full-up on that subject, and their “common sense” doesn’t see a coupla’ degrees warmer as a problem. There is no analogy about Sudan or Brazil or Mars that they can relate to.
We simply must bring our talk way down to a level they can use. I’m not saying I know how – but notice I’m using small words. The only mysterious words I’ve used are : “metaphor” and “analogy” – and I’ve accused the Cons of not understanding them!
Yes! Everyone look at Drudge every day! See the start of the Clown Parade! See their simple language. They don’t use metaphors as metaphors – they present their metaphors as actual instances – as the current reality. No “what if …” just “right now!”.
Not ‘evaluation boards” but “DEATH PANELS!”
I dunno – that’s why more of us have to tune in their junk.
khead
Tell your grandmother to google Georgia + rotting + immigrants.
Triassic Sands
Well, no sane president would ever implement such an idea, but in January 2013 the US may have its first certifiably insane president — someone who would turn down a budget deal of 10 to 1 cuts over revenue increases; someone who would have refused to bail out the banks; someone who would have refused to bail out the auto companies; someone who would make the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent; someone who would privatize Medicare, Medicaid (or eliminate it altogether), and Social Security; someone who would criminalize abortions;…and the list goes on and on — all things no sane president would do.
@Constance:
NPR’s basic reporting is fairly good, but you’re right, they are prime purveyors of false equivalence. They don’t want to anger their Winger critics, who would zero out all public broadcasting if they could — failing to realize that NPR and PBS both carry water for them regularly by supposedly being “Left Wing,” while regularly embracing Right Wing talking points and criticizing Democrats for being equally guilty of all manner of sins.
Not long ago, during the debt ceiling fiasco, EJ Dionne appeared with Bobo, who admitted that the Republicans were the only ones who had been unwilling to compromise. He even went so far as to state that Obama had caved in on one issue after another to Republican demands. Their general assessment was accurate. Dionne agreed with all that, but he summed up by saying that (paraphrase) “now, both sides had to compromise to reach an agreement.” That was what the “liberal” concluded even though both commentators had agreed that only the Republicans had refused to budge up to that point.
Dead Earnest
to your question; an open thread w/ postings of what the far right is presenting – I can’t tolerate spending any time ‘over there’ but would very much like to be current with what they’re up to. So to your question; ‘Yes, please’ (and w/ gratitude to those who can stomach gathering the poison).
But lemme add; that would be a thread I’d want to fly through and be done with. I think it is pretty likely it would exceed 200+ quickly as good people posted their reactions and revulsions.
That would discourage me from reading it, to being able to Hold My Breath, wade through the toxins and Get Out. I would not suggest people do not post their responses – so: Yes, I’d like to be Current with The Crap but I don’t know how an open thread could be that kind of simple summary.
AlladinsLamp
I heard on the radio, right after that last space shuttle landing, that Obama had cancelled the space program.
Why did Obama cancel NASA?
fhtagn
About as tempting as an invitation to eat other people’s vomit.
Thymezone
@Big Baby DougJ:
One can never underestimate the power of blogcreatures to miss a point, no matter how huge or well made it might be.
Sports teams study other teams’ play on the field. Not gossip about their genitals or blather about why they act the way they do. They don’t study the graffiti the other team writes on its shitter stalls. They study their moves on the field. There is a difference. I doubt that you can see this difference, but trust me, your superior … the differences are real, and they count.
Here’s a real world example: A, endless blogging about why people on the right reject their own ideas once we adopt them. Versus B, discussion of how to disempower an opponent who practices gratuitous obstructionism. Get it? I don’t give a flying rat fuck why a crazy person does what he does. He’s crazy, that’s why, and that’s all I need to know. I only want to work on my game plan for fucking him in the ass with the sharpest possible stick. Let his mother worry about why he does things. I want a play that pulls his balls off and shoves them up his ass and into his throat on the crucial drive. Can you see my meaning?
steve
I can’t follow them. Stupidity really annoys and depresses me, and nothing is stupider than America’s current right-wing.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mino:
Joseph Stalin studied at a monastery to become an Orthodox cleric.
Obviously, he was as fundigelical as Pat Robertson.
Korea Beat
The most entertaining, even if not comprehensive, way to follow the right blogosphere is to read Alicublog.
http://alicublog.blogspot.com
Marty
I prefer the Tom Friedman approach. I just chat with the guy sitting next to me on an airplane, or with my barber. They complain to me about how immigrants are taking all the jobs away and we need land mines on the borders, etc. etc. That’s all I really need to hear.
aimai
@MattF:
What a brilliant observation. Also, it would be dangerous.
I’d like to add that the far right concerns get bumped to the top of my page when I’m googling, and that is a real prpoblem. I’m slightly embarrassed to say that I googled Michelle Obama + martha’s vinyard because I was looking to enjoy some pretty pictures of the first family on their vacation. So sue me! But all I could find were endless links to bitch fests about how she and the kids took an earlier flight and it cost the taxpayers THOUSANDS. They will never stop trying to kill every last human moment that family enjoys, for two terms if they are unlucky enough to get it, with cries of “Michelle used tax paper financed toilet paper!” and “Obama pays attention to his children on the tax payer’s dime! Why can’ t he ignore his kids like we ignore our own?”
etc…
I wish we had a system for google bombing feel good stories about Obama etc… to the top of the list.
aimai
Dennis SGMM
An old Navy buddy of mine has gone full metal winger over the years. He’s an avid email forwarder so I get all of the top RW memes and conspiracy theories I need from him.
Woodrowfan
Just check media Matters every day and you’ll get a lot of it.
Ruviana
@dww44:
Haven’t read the whole thread yet, but about those annoying public FAUX news tvs, there’s always this:
http://www.tvbgone.com/cfe_tvbg_main.php
Several years ago I was traveling in Central America and Mexico and many, if not most of the hotel televisions had fox, sometimes as their only English-language news source.
BarbCat
@aimai:
The Obama Diary posts loving photos as soon as they go public. I just go straight there when I need a visual reminder.
Like others, I see/experience plenty of their whackedness on MSNBC and by skimming HufPo comments, but a rundown of the most salient, um, ‘ideas’ of the weeks would be great.
Kevin
This probably isn’t too close to the topic, but I regularly read Jason Linkin’s Sunday Talk Show recaps on Huffpo for the humor and demolition of whatever talking points are on the ReThugs “minds”. The comments section is pretty amusing, too.
SensesFail
@Mike Jones:
Thanks for the link. From that WSJ piece:
See? Because complex economies and Stephen Moore’s household “economy” are TOTALLY analogous, right?!?!?!?!?!
Fucking moron.
The Raven
I think this is a capital idea Doug, if you can find enough people to contribute.
BTW, I have decided to put anti-Keynesian economics in the same box w. climate change denial. The Keynesians have won the argument and it is time to move on.
SensesFail
@The Raven:
I’m totally with you on this.
cmorenc
@DougJ:
Wonderful idea! One particular species of this nuttiness that should be included with the others is wingnut chain emails, which are one of the more influential viral forms for spreading right-wing lunatic ideas and conspiracy notions.
danimal
I try to listen as much as I can. I do have a Limbaugh rule. I’ll listen to dear leader until he tells one demonstrable lie, and then I get out before the stupid metastasizes. I usually only last a minute or two.
zimzam
could be good fun. I listen to hannity, boortz and erickson for fun and it would be good to have a place to commiserate.
NobodySpecial
DougJ:
There is no dark side of the moon. It’s all dark.
Woodrowfan
so deporting all the illegals will provide more jobs? You know, I’ve just been dying to stand outside of Home Depot to find work on a dry wall crew, but kept getting crowded out…
300baud
@SensesFail:
And even if they were totally analogous, it’s not accurate. Stimulus spending isn’t handing out money to random lazy people. The goal is to spend in ways that a) maximize knock-on economic activity, and b) create long-term value (or prevent the destruction of long-term value).
The Spy Who Loved Me
Don’t really watch Fox, except when my in-laws are in town. I do read a few blogs you would probably call “winger”: Instapundit, Hot Air, Ace of Spades (he can be really funny sometimes) and occasionally Legal Insurrection, but that usually comes from something via Memeorandum. Otherwise, it’s either left or what is considered moderate, like Outside the Beltway.
Will
I read The Other McCain and Hot Air every few days. The first is a charming bigot, the second is a boring content thief, not much more.
Maura Cavaleri
I’m a blue-dog, southern Democrat and a strong supporter of Obama, financially and time-wise. I do listen/mostly read some of them because my daddy always said for me to keep my enemies close. If I don’t know what they’re up to, then how am I gonna fight them?
Personally,I use a mood-altering substance before I dive in. it helps. a lot.
btw, when I first started lurking, I thought I would not fit in. I wasn’t sure a moderate would be welcome. I was wrong.
pepper
i occasionally read redstate.com. it’s awful. i periodically watched beck. if i am in the car, i will sometimes listen to hannity or limbaugh. i think to properly engage the other side, you have to know how it things. otherwise, we are in an echo chamber of our own, and while facts have a demonstrable liberal bias, it is healthy to know where the other side is coming from.
The Raven
It occurs to me that I did my time on this, several decades ago on Usenet. Hunh.
Lojasmo
I get my wingnuttery through the BJ metafilter. Even if I didn’t, I believe I would have a better understanding of American politics than 95% of Americans (and 30% of Europeans)
Bill Murray
@SensesFail: why didn’t Moore kick the lazy one out rather than support him. If he’s old enough to work, he’s old enough to pay for himself. No more of that commie familial support.
Karen
@dww44:
Where to begin, where to begin…
1. Jon Stewart will talk about hypocrisy wherever he sees it. Sometimes he’s harder on Democrats because he expects better out of them and you know what? So do I. I expect the current GOP to be evil or petty or stupid. I expect better out of the Dems.
2. They’re not fawning interviews, the guests on both sides are pushing their books or movies or TV shows and he tries to talk to his guests objectively because it’s a lot more effective to let certain guests hang themselves than to Keith Olbermann them, which I’m guessing is what you want. And guess what? Sometimes when you hear the other side and know what motivates them it helps you know how to stop them. And….just because you may disagree with people that doesn’t make them evil. Like Michael Steel was there the other day and even though I don’t agree with his views, he’s a lot less crazy and extreme than a good deal of the Repugs today.
3.This is my favorite, the lame takedown of Obama, though I can’t tell if it’s “lame” because you believe Stewart is pro or anti Obama. When Obama is being an idiot, Stewart will say so. If Obama is affective, Stewart will say so too. He’s never had any issue about showing anyone’s – GOP or Dem – idiocy. Because at the end of the day, he and the other people on there are comedians not journalists and they feature whoever is FUNNY.
Maybe you should go to Current TV and watch Keith Olbermann if you want hard hitting constant pounding of Republicans. Not a comedy show.
dww44
@Ruviana: Thanks, I had forgotten about this. Seems its available online at both Amazon and Target.
dww44
@Karen: Ah, where to begin, where to begin…….
Just count me in Digby’s corner as one who believes that Stewart is not really a progressive. As he says, he’s a comedian. And, I watch him a lot. Some nights he’s good. Many times he’s not.
And, by the way,mostly his interviews are lame and its very evident that he’s doing a commercial for the guest. Like the one the other night with Anne Hathaway,promoting her new movie. Very inane and in a fundamental way, disappointing.
And, also too, Rachel Maddow long ago proved that Michael Steele (with an “e”)isn’t an idiot. I didn’t need Jon Stewart to provide proof of that. I happen to like Olbermann a lot but don’t require a daily dose , so, thanks for the tip, but I think I will carry on on my own, being the extremely partisan leftist, and definitely not a centrist, that I am.
Roger Mexico
Who needs a thread when there’s always newshounds.us to watch FOX?
Also MediaMatters for the bigger picture.
Valdivia
@Maura Cavaleri:
Glad you are here.
For those having read that Moore carp at the WSJ Chait at TNR totally demolished him yesterday. Linky:
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/93942/in-which-i-try-restrain-my-nasty-impulses-limited-success
Joseph Nobles
This is what I use Twitter for, among other things. I have found a couple of good retweeters who follow all that noise and send the “cream” of the crop back out. Then I follow a couple of actual pundits, though the impulse to counter their nonsense is too great. I’ve been banned so far by Breitbart, Erickson, Beck, etc., but that’s just medals of honor, you know. 140-character doses are a lot easier to deal with.
Gretchen D
@gnomedad: I had an old high school buddy who sent me stuff like that all the time. I felt like I was being stalked until I finally figured out how to get his emails routed directly to my Junk file. It’s hateful.
BattleCat
BattleCat is reminded of the time one of BattleCat’s small-time websites was caught in the middle of a giant political clusterfuck.
WND ran some bullshit article about how they tried to contact BattleCat, but that BattleCat was apparently “not available for contact.”
BattleCat would like to inform you that Right Wing Newsrags make up their own news.
jwest
This is an enlightening thread.
It’s always been a mystery why so many seemingly intelligent people could hold the views they do, but the lack of intellectual curiosity exhibited by the commentators here explains it. By isolating yourselves to one side of the argument and fantasizing about what the other side is saying, all the while receiving reinforcement from similarly ill-informed individuals, you never receive enough information to make a thoughtful decision on the issues.
As liberals enter a phase of crushing defeat, it may be helpful if the politically active take the time to explore why the country is moving so far to the right.
Mayur
jwest:
This is one of the funniest things I’ve read on this blog.
Oh wait, you’re serious. Why don’t you actually look at the purported reasons for, say, going into Iraq, or the actual science behind climate change and the range of workable scenarios, or how the tax burden is actually distributed in this country (hint: It ain’t “fifty percent of households pay no TAX! JESUSELEVENTYONE!!!” like your Fox propandandists say) and get a grip on which part of the spectrum in US politics is “ill-informed.”
Brachiator
Doesn’t the Guardian have a column that does this sort of thing with respect to right wing media shows? I never watched much of Fox News, and now avoid its Sunday pundit show entirely. Ditto with Limbaugh and company. This crap is predictably rightwing nonsense, as are the winger blogs.
As election season heats up, it might be useful to have a taste of what the nut jobs are up to, but sparingly.
fuckwit
It’s be easy, since the right wing is so heirarchal. Pretty much all you have to do is summarize the day’s FAUX “News” or Limbaugh. It’s not like there’s any kind of endless cacophony of disagreeing voices to keep track of. They right wing marches, SIEG HEIL, in lockstep. Which is why they win elections, of course, but also it makes oppo research very straightforward.
I can’t communicate with my all-FAUX-watching parents anymore, but my daughter came back from a visit to her grandparents and told me that they are currently whining about Obama taking a vacation in Martha’s Vineyard.
shep
I listen to Limbaugh in the morning whenever I’m in the home-office. A)it’s about all I can get inside the house in my rural hamlet and B)I’d just as soon get my corporatist propaganda straight up than disguised as objective, balanced reporting (see: NPR-NBC).