When Steve Jobs took Apple over in the late 90s, my roomate’s girlfriend, who was an MBA student at Berkeley at the time, told me it was a terrible move because Jobs was a visionary type and what Apple needed was a manager type. I said that after all the great stuff Jobs had done (Pixar, Next), it seemed silly to bet against him and she told me that showed how little I understood about the business world (though she didn’t say it in that insulting of a way).
I thought of this when Bobo wrote recently:
In 2001, Jim Collins published a best-selling study called “Good to Great.” He found that the best C.E.O.’s were not the flamboyant visionaries. They were humble, self-effacing, diligent and resolute souls who found one thing they were really good at and did it over and over again.
That could even be true for all I know, I’m not a business historian, but this civility uber alles stuff is everywhere these days and it scares the hell out of me. If you are rude or use profanity, you can’t be taken seriously, even if you’re right about everything (I’m not referring to this blog, obviously). If you’re humble and self-effacing, you can be wrong about everything all the time! Maybe I’m wrong to think that things are this way outside of the media world (I’ll admit that they aren’t that way at all in research science).
As much it pains me to say this, I like the fact that the pre-eminent tech CEO of our era was a big swaggering, Galtian (Roarkian?) prick who told people to fuck off at every turn.
anthrosciguy
It’s a little more complicated than that, but it’s clear that the one thing you don’t want is a manager. This is even more clear because Bobo says you do want that :), but besides that there’s history. The history of IBM for example. With salesmen in charge it does great. When they put the bean-counters in charge in the 1980s it led to their lost decade. Threw them out in the early 1990s and they were back to roaring along.
Really, is Bobo ever right?
schrodinger's cat
By this logic is m_c the most insightful commenter there is?
Big Baby DougJ
@schrodinger’s cat:
Taken to its logical extreme, I suppose.
scav
It’s not the swinging balls that made him a visionary, there are lots of managerial types that swing ’em just as hard. Not all idea geeks can make the switch into managing others, let alone managing budgets etc. especially as they scale up past a certain size. There’s a large swathe of them that can’t trust others to implement their visionary ideas and so they’re terrific micromanagers. Clearly, it’s not always the case but as a heuristic, sometimes it’s people other than the parents that best manage the teenage transition.
arguingwithsignposts
So your roommate was dating Megan McArdle?
ETA: And wtf has Bobo ever managed other than his expense account? Seriously, the man is so full of shit it’s almost embarrassing.
MonkeyBoy
Maybe for Jobs, but some would say the pre-eminent title goes to Gates who an abrasive psychopathic bully in many of his interpersonal interactions.
arguingwithsignposts
@anthrosciguy: Someone linked to an article after Jobs resigned that was written about how Jobs had out-Sony’d Sony. Sony was founded by a visionary – two, in fact. But later, they were overtaken by beancounters. And Jobs had that original vision that Sony had. I’m sure someone has the link still. It was an interesting article.
dmsilev
Jobs is an arrogant prick, no doubt, but does he really merit “Galtian”? He was usually pretty clear about the fact that it takes a cast of thousands to actually implement Apple’s toys, and that’s pretty much the antithesis of the pure Galtian worldview.
Keith G
So….Chris Christy for President?
In related news…
Does the public want Obama to be more Christy-like?
Edited
Sam Houston
Humble, driven, CEOs run stupid boring things like banks, insurance companies, and dull widget makers.
Flamboyant, successful, driven, CEOs run tech companies. (And we know it’s always been this way.)
Flamboyant, unsuccessful, driven, CEOs run Countrywide Mortgage.
arguingwithsignposts
DougJ, but was Jobs a Galtian? I don’t see it, but I haven’t read any biographies.
srv
I blame all this gender neutralization and PC in schools that are deprograming our naturally pre-disposed galtian rock ribbed republican boys.
Bnut
He also let his kid live on welfare for almost a decade because he didn’t admit to being the father.
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
I have had the great misfortune of having to work close to several CEOs/Presidents/CoBs. Some of them could actually pretend to be decent human beings if they needed to or wanted to appear like ‘one of the guys’. I also watched them act like vicious thugs. I imagine that there must be a few who actually are good guys but I think they are the exception not the rule.
TaMara (BHF)
I met Jobs once, I think 2002…and I swear to you, if someone hadn’t told me who he was, it never would have dawned on me that this was Steve Jobs. He was a complete gentleman, kind of quiet and very gentle in spirit. I wish I could have spent more time with him, he was fascinating. I wish him well.
Odie Hugh Manatee
When you said that your roommate’s GF was an MBA, I knew her bet against Jobs would be wrong. I wonder what she would say if you could ask her about that opinion now.
For some reason I think she would still insist that she was right.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Ben Smith don’t have to cuss on his blog to get pageviews
Sometimes your lyrics are just way too obscure, man
I don’t really follow the bidness world, so I have no idea about any CEO personalities, except for that guy from that movie, and people say that was pretty accurate. I do find Bobo’s comment pretty funny in light of the politicians on his side– Cantor, Christie, Perry, Romney’s trying to be more abrasive, it seems, and poor little pencilneck Pawlenty screwed himself right out of the race by trying to be a tuff guy.
Big Momm
Title reference: “Will Smith don’t gotta cuss in his raps to sell records” – nailed it?
SST
But you do! So fuck him and fuck Politico too!
ETA: Drat. Big Momm edged me out
srv
@arguingwithsignposts:
http://www.theatlasphere.com/metablog/1325.php
Woz is supposed to have some libertarian leanings.
JimPortlandOR
Steve Jobs: all too often no mention is made of his failures (starting with Lisa).
I can’t assess whether he made essential technical or marketing contributions to the successes, since Steve was projected by his communications shapers as the only person at Apple with a brain (his balls not being highlighted).
I can say this, after about 15 years of closeup but not insider watching of the Apple mythology: somebody there was very good at hiring obnoxious, overbearing Dickheads from stem to stern in the company. Maybe Jobs gave semenars to the troops on how to be a corporate jerk.
Omnes Omnibus
Luther Campbell: I said, that’s my bread and butter, man.
Frank Sinatra: No, you’re wrong, schoolboy. You don’t need to work blue! You’ll never play the big rooms with that crap. Ask Redd Foxx. You don’t need the blue stuff, kid, you got talent!
Luther Campbell: But I don’t have talent.
Frank Sinatra: You’ve got it, kid. You listen to me – you’ve got a Ben Vereen quality, I can’t put my finger on it. Take the high road, baby!
Luther Campbell: I swear, man, I don’t have any talent. None! This is all I got.
Ricky Roma
Except for the part where Jobs is a liberal, focused on success and not money, and isn’t actually prick who told people to fuck off at at every turn. This whole post is a meritless as a Bobo article, since you seem to have bought into a lot convential tech industry journalism.
Jobs doesn’t suffer fools and is willing to actually curse like a normal person. There are countless examples of generous and gentlemanly behavior in actual tech writing. Just not in the simpleton tech journalism Village.
Pro-tip: With few exception (Om Malik and Any Ihnatko come to mind) any tech journalist that appears in the WSJ, CNN, CNBC or Leo Laporte’s TWiT network (that last part makes me sad) can be ignored.
arguingwithsignposts
@srv: Hmmm. Could be. But he’s never proposed building any floating glibertarian islands or anything like that. Like I said, I don’t know enough to say one way or another. He’s certainly not in the Nick Gillespie sphere of glibertarian assholery.
wrb
Back in the early days he claimed to be a Buddhist.
He is an acid head, that we know.
Roger Moore
@anthrosciguy:
I think in all these things you need a mix of types for any organization to work. The dreamers need some bean counters to keep them down to earth- or at least to take care of messy practical details- and the bean counters need some visionaries to think about something beyond the next income statement. Apple needed to bring in Jobs because they were dominated by bean counters and needed a powerful visionary to move the company forward. Google needed to bring in Eric Schmidt to figure out how to make money off Page and Brin’s great ideas.
It’s when you lack balance that a company goes off the rails. NeXT is actually a good example of that. Jobs put together some really great ideas and built a fantastic machine, but it was never a big financial success. It wasn’t until somebody merged the visionary technology Jobs had built at NeXT with the functioning business of Apple that the whole thing took off.
Poopyman
@Big Baby: It’s no more complicated than Bobo latching on to qualities he sees in himself which have been framed (by someone else – a neutral observer!) as necessary qualities for success. I.e., it’s just Bobo telling us how successful he is in that passive-aggressive way of his.
Big Baby DougJ
@Ricky Roma:
I have never read a single story about Jobs where he didn’t essentially tell someone to “fuck off”, usually in those exact words.
Galtian may be wrong, how about Roarkian? If anyone was in love with the beauty of his designs, it was Jobs.
arguingwithsignposts
@Big Baby DougJ: But Jobs didn’t blow anything up, or drop out in a huff. He stuck to his guns. I shudder to think what the iPhone would have looked like if he hadn’t (cough – Motorola Droid – cough).
SiubhanDuinne
I also give you: Ted Turner. You kids won’t remember, but long, long ago, CNN was actually a pretty damn good, innovative, trustworthy source of news.
Then came the merger with AOL/TimeWarner. Sad.
WaterGirl
@arguingwithsignposts: You are making me laugh today, on every thread.
Chad N Freude
To make a long story longer:
Back in the 60’s, I worked as a programmer for an innovative software company (for its time) run by a flamboyant CEO, who may or may not have been a visionary but who did not personally direct the technical direction of the company, leaving that to an imaginative and creative tech staff. He died when the plane he was flying, probably flamboyantly, crashed. He was replaced by a microbean counter who was also dishonest with the tech staff. Like promising a programmer who was sent with his family to a European startup office with the unconditional promise of return airfare if he or his family were dissatisfied and wanted to return. When the programmer asked to return to the US, the CEO responded with “I don’t care what we promised him, we’re not gonna pay it.” (That was the camelback-breaking worst of a series of abuses of the staff.) The confidential message to the startup management somehow leaked to the techies, and after some — um — discussion, the company paid for the family’s return to the US. Within two years, the really innovative software staff had all gone somewhere else, leaving a company that happily turned itself from a creative software house into as service bureau. I was not the programmer in question, but I (cough) might have been the first to see the message.
Shelton Lankford
Steve Jobs is an inspirational genius, a perfectionist, and first and foremost, a technology freak who insisted that the people and the products be “insanely great”. Call him Galtian if you will but it was always about the technology. I bought stock in Apple when it was struggling, I hung on through years when their future as a company was being discussed doubtfully. Then, right after the iPod was introduced I finally read one more article that convinced me that it was as high as it would ever get and that I had been investing with my heart instead of my head. I sold what I had – at $32 a share. Today’s price – $383. Shoulda listened to my heart.
I never lost faith in the Mac though.
khead
@Omnes Omnibus:
“I’ve got chunks of guys like you in my stool.”
One of Phil’s best.
Also….
“I’ll tell you what you better understand! Next time you see Old Glory riding up that pole, you better sing that anthem, darling! You’re lucky you’re a chick, or you’d be nothing but a stain on the road and a crewcut. Our founding fathers went to the mat for you, baby!”
I needed to look that one up to make sure I got it right.
different church-lady
The thing about Jobs is that he is running his company, which sells products that match his vision, in his own way. The whole package adds up because it’s all of a piece.
Telling people to fuck off at every turn might not work if you’re running someone else’s company. Although Jobs has been CEO of a few companies, he’s not a professional CEO. He doesn’t run these companies because being a CEO is his career — he runs them because he believes in them and the things they make.
I think one of the major problems we have is that we have a professional upper-management class that treats companies like they’re interchangeable pieces. And business schools are churning them out at a rate of probably ten times more than we actually need.
piratedan
how nice that we can classify all business models into one neat nifty lil paradigm…..or so say the pointyheaded paradigm makers. There is no ONE successful business model, there are hundreds ranging from elitist corporate graft to visionaries with insightful ideas and folks who see a niche in the marketplace and fill it; to those who can find a way to translate plain common sense into sensible products that are made well.
I grow weary of these pathetic villagers that think everything can be boiled down into one or two sentences and then think that their work is done for the day… you want that kind of a job, feel free to haul ass down to Cliff Notes, where your talents at least have a practical application …..
Big Momm
@SST: haha well I didn’t come up with any more lyrics to that, so you win.
WyldPirate
From the Pew Report KeithG @9 mentions:
Losing support from Dems (and overall) and people are getting sick of seeing the GOP walk all over him. Hmmmmm….
More from the poll:
Probably most importantly from this Pew Poll, 51% of Dem-leaning independents–the fence poll sitters in the mushy middle–think Obama should “stand up to the GOP more often”. This is up 6% since April.
So, kiddies, less summarize. The base is getting restless and have a less favorable view of Obama and especially his leadership abilities and ability to get things done. They want him to stand up to the GOP. The crucial ones that want this are the Dem-leaning independents–voters who Obama can’t win election without–want him to call BS on the GOP and their horseshit.
I was right about Obama calling BS on the Rethugs months ago. It is starting to show up now in the electorate. Here is another prediction for all of you Obot apologists: if Obama doesn’t start calling out the GOP horseshit, there is going to be a lot of people who give up on him and sit at home ’12. People are going to get demoralized.
Obama and his staff better pull their heads out of the motherfucking sand and chuck the bipartisanship schtick in the trash. IT’s a goddamned pipe dream because the Rethugs are intent on driving the country in the ditch. They are not going to cooperate at all. Moreover, people will tire of Obama getting a stomped rhetorical by the Rehtugs. If he doesn’t call out their bullshit he won’t get a second term.
And yeah, I stomped on the thread topic.
different church-lady
@JimPortlandOR:
Yeah, because when we talk about Tiger Woods or Pete Sampras or Wayne Gretzky we usually spend a lot of time dwelling upon all the championships they didn’t win.
PS: I don’t think his daughter is a failure.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Long, long ago I was dating a guy who worked at NeXT and had an office pretty close to Jobs’. He said everyone who worked near the guy had an escape route planned out in case someone came looking for Jobs with an automatic and a nuclear grudge (my boyfriend’s was: stand on the desk, pop a ceiling tile, and climb up. He’d tested it). There were so many folks with the latter that they thought there was a pretty good chance of the former showing up, too.
But you know what? The man’s a genius who has made millions of lives better, too, including mine as I type this on my iPad. I don’t know where the balance lies.
different church-lady
@WyldPirate: So, does that poll cover the base, or all democrats, or just whoever you happen to think it covers at the moment you’re ranting?
scav
So we’re down to Peoplez iz Complex and Therz n+1 ways to skin and/or manage cats (including throwing up one’s hands and letting them get to whatever they were going to anyway).
Omnes Omnibus
@WyldPirate: A good leader doesn’t get too far ahead of his followers. Quite honestly, I would expect that, over the next few months, Obama will jack up the rhetoric. We are entering campaign season. Of course, when he does you will say it was about time he recognized the need, that he almost left it too late, and that proves he is incompetent. There is also the possibility that you will just say he is doing it the wrong way.
WyldPirate
@Shelton Lankford:
Too bad most everyone else did.
Apple wouldn’t be shit if the Mac was all they had. The IPod and IPhone pulled their ass out of the fire.
Doesn’t matter too much. The same thing that killed them in the PC world will kill them with the phones and tablets—locking out everyone else by making their shit propriety with respect to apps. Samsung (and I think Motorola) and Android OS have paired and made a better phone(s) than the IPhone already.
Sam Houston
The pixels were oblong. It was kinda disturbing.
different church-lady
@WyldPirate: The iMac pulled their asses out of the fire.
Is there nothing you can’t get wrong?
WyldPirate
@different church-lady:
I specified which it covered in the quoted sections. It covers both. If you would pull your Obot head out of your Obot ass you could go read it for yourself.
JGabriel
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Are you kidding? I got that one right away.
And I don’t always. I guess one man’s obscurity is another’s commonplace.
.
fleeting expletive
I met Ted Turner once, after he sold CNN, at a Democratic party function. He was one of those people who look you in the eye and make you feel like he’s really interested and happy to make your acquaintance. I hope and believe I didn’t blubber like a teenybopper.
WyldPirate
@Omnes Omnibus:
If he doesn’t and if the economy continues to get worse, he will go down next November.
I won’t enjoy saying “I told you so” because the alternative is damn near too awful to imagine. However, I fully expect you Obots to keep whistling past the graveyard.
different church-lady
@WyldPirate: So, all democrats are the base?
Do you sit around all day long thinking up ways to irritate people on the internet, or do you just come by it naturally?
Big Baby DougJ
@Omnes Omnibus:
I love that, one of my favorites.
Continental Op
Jobs and Gates are ideal CEOs for an industry operating in a technologically immature field. In automobiles or soft drinks, they might not do so well. When the stockholders at Apple got rid of Jobs, they replaced him with someone from Pepsi. Remember how well that worked out?
Omnes Omnibus
@WyldPirate: Okay. You are on the record. Multiple times. What graveyard was I whistling past with my comment or do you just have a macro to throw that in every third comment or so?
Svensker
@different church-lady:
Yes.
All bean counters, no jolly green giants.
Roger Moore
@different church-lady:
QFT. It’s interesting to look at areas there are where there’s a mix of companies that are run by MBAs and ones that are run by field experts who learned management ad hoc as they moved up the ladder. It seems to me that the school of hard knocks managers do well enough to make the value of an MBA highly questionable.
scav
@Roger Moore: A MBA isn’t certainly the only thing they need which is how they often treat it. Content-free, Context-free management is something I’m certainly hoping not to have to witness again.
srv
@Continental Op:
er, Jobs is the one who fluffed the Pepsi guy into coming in the first place.
MikeJ
@srv: You want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life?
Sam Houston
Who wants to hear about Superman fighting racist white assholes?
Y’know I’m thinkin’ it’s high time for an action adventure movie where Superman kicks some white cracker ass.
[edit] Even better: Black Superman!
WyldPirate
@different church-lady:
You dumbfuck, go look at their timeline of product intros and net profits on Wikipedia. That piece of shit egg-shaped eyesore IMac didn’t pull their ass out of the fire as it was introduced in 1997 when they lost a billion dollars. They didn’t begin to recover until 2005, well after the IPod and ITunes became successful and well after they partnered with Microsoft to get Microsoft Office on their machines. The ntroduction of the IPhone in 2007 kicked them into orbit profit-wise.
Walker
@WyldPirate:
And this is why no one will touch Apple for the foreseeable future. Because they mistakenly believe that the PC market and the consumer electronic market are the same thing.
Android may have the hardware market share, but their app share is in shambles. Game studios are largely avoiding the Android because they already learned about the problem of hardware fragmentation with the collapse of the PC market. In their mind, the closed system of Apple is exactly like the consoles (X-Box, PS3), and that is a good thing.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
The Falcons and Steelers!
Roger Moore
@Continental Op:
Take a look at the automotive world, though. The car companies usually bring in CEOs who have spent a long time in the automotive business and have worked their way up, rather than trying to poach hotshot CEOs from other industries. My impression is that this is generally the case in mature industries. If there’s something unusual about tech companies it’s that their segments are so young that many CEOs have been with the same company since it was founded.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
When can I gets a thunderbolt HD for my pro?
Jon H
@Roger Moore: “It’s when you lack balance that a company goes off the rails. NeXT is actually a good example of that. Jobs put together some really great ideas and built a fantastic machine, but it was never a big financial success.”
No, but the OS and developer tools were a resounding technical success, which is why they are the foundation of OS X, iOS, and the modern dev tools.
” It wasn’t until somebody merged the visionary technology Jobs had built at NeXT with the functioning business of Apple that the whole thing took off.”
That somebody was Steve Jobs.
Sam Houston
@WyldPirate: I had Mac Office in 1989. I met a Talking Moose in 1990. He lived with me for several years.
Apple’s success was writ large once everyone bought an iPod.
(reformed mac fanboi)
Why are people being mean to each other here?
CaseyL
I remember the first time I heard that: it was when an acquaintence of mine went to manage institutional computer sales, even though she knew very little about computers. She said all sales was the same; you didn’t need to know much about the actual product.
One of the foundational philosophies in the US holds that anyone can pull off any task, job or mission if they try long enough and hard enough. This is an essential part of our democratic (small “d”) mythos. It’s astonishing how often this does turn out to be the case.
The problem is, it’s not always true; and too often people focus on the first part (“Anyone can do anything –“) and forget about the second part (“– if they work and think hard enough!”). That’s when you get an entire school of business management shaping an entire economy on the precept that anyone can manage any business, even if they know nothing about the business.
And what happens then is two generations of MBAs trying to run companies they know nothing about. They take refuge in one management fad after another. They make a fetish of “metrics” since they don’t know how to evaluate anything except by arbitrary numerical ranking. Either they drive the company into bankruptcy through sheer incompetence or strip it of its assets and sell it off as fast as they can.
They have been the ruination of our economy.
PeakVT
I like the fact that the pre-eminent tech CEO of our era was a big swaggering, Galtian (Roarkian?) prick who told people to fuck off at every turn.
Jobs: confident to the point of arrogance – yes. I’ve never read him as swaggering, though. Ellison, OTOH… and Ballmer – definitely a swaggering asshole.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore:
Bob Nardelli?
jwb
@SiubhanDuinne: Yes, and I’ll never forgive Turner for selling CNN to Time Warner.
Jon H
@arguingwithsignposts: “I shudder to think what the iPhone would have looked like if he hadn’t (cough – Motorola Droid – cough).”
(cough – Motorola Rokr – cough)
Remember that lithium-powered abortion?
WyldPirate
@different church-lady:
No, I specialize in Obots with their heads up their ass. BJ is a target-rich environment.
srv
@Roger Moore: The future may have a bone to pick with you.
Jon H
My only personal experience with Jobs was that he glared at me on the show floor at NeXTWorld in 1993 or 1994. He was sitting at a PC running NeXTSTEP that was rebooting. I was standing at the next booth wondering what he was doing. He probably thought I was snooping or gawking or being nosy or something. Which, really, I was.
arguingwithsignposts
@Sam Houston: Stetson Kennedy had a song written about him by Woody Guthrie, performed by Billy Bragg and Wilco.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
OT: Gawker is running the 50 worst states in America, and this is what they say about Pennsylvania:
Corner Stone
Wasn’t there a magazine cover of Lil Stevie Jobs taking a call from Gates when he invested in Apple to keep that organization from hitting the wastebin of history?
srv
@Jon H: Talus had put a virus on it.
Stillwater
BigBabyJ: when is Cole gonna give you the reins on this here blog? He’s toast these days, twittering and baking bread.
And if he does, can I call you BigBJ?
scav
@CaseyL:
GSD Help us, I’ve known enough people working downstream from that person and, yeah, they nailed the fucking sale but they sold the wrong system to the customer with the wrong functionality for what the customer needs while making extravagant and technologically impossible promises and the tech team and help desk is left to clean up the situation. But hey, the sale was made!
SST
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
They need to update that shit. Sox are now FIRST in their division
/ hoping it lasts
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: I take it you aren’t an MBA.
Corner Stone
@Stillwater:
Why not? That’s what everybody else calls him.
WyldPirate
@Omnes Omnibus:
I suppose I was speaking in generalities with my WPTGY comment with you as you weren’t in that specific comment. Yo9u are much more of a realist than many of the buffoons here that reflexively attack anyone that dares question the wisdom or tactics of Obama.
Despite what the buffonish, ass-clown Obots spout here, Obama’s support is eroding with the very people he has to keep. Those voters are getting anxious and if they give up hope, they are going to sit out 2012. And they are going to give up hope if they perceive Obam to be ineffectual. The numbers in the Pew poll are telling that story. I happen to think that this is independent of which insane clwn-car occupant the GOP ends up nominating.
Let the ad hominems rip, BJ Obots. The red meat is there for you….
Stillwater
@Corner Stone: Gates is one of those few
ahntrayprenyoorsbusinessmen who actually encouraged competition. Is it cuz he thought he could actually meet the challenge?Roger Moore
@Jon H:
I think you’re missing my point. NeXT, where Jobs was completely in charge, was never successful financially because Jobs was allowed to focus too much on technology and not enough on practicality. It was only when he was constrained by a bunch of bean counters at Apple who demanded that his products actually be affordable to ordinary people that the great tech really took off.
I think that’s been the real, underdiscussed aspect of the success of the iPod/iPad/iPhone. Yes, they’re really great, cutting edge tech. So was the NeXT, which didn’t sell for shit. The big difference, and the thing that makes Apple’s appliances so successful, is that they’re priced close enough to the competition that they have a compelling case in the market. People are willing to pay a modest premium to get the very best, and Apple is doing very well because they have a great handle on just how big a premium they can afford to charge. That knowledge is what good bean counters will get you.
Special Patrol Group
I bet a million bazillion dollars that Ms. MBA voted for George Bush, Jr. with the greatest of ease. “Manager type.” Holy fuck.
Bobo is an elitist fuckhead. Still.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@WyldPirate: How bout a couple of examples? I don’t see all that much blind faith here.
debit
@WyldPirate: Every time you froth and rage it just makes me love Obama even more. Please continue.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Can you name another? I didn’t say that car companies always hire from within the industry, but they do far more often than they bring in outsiders.
Big Baby DougJ
@Stillwater:
I wouldn’t take them, this is John’s place.
I just want ABL to start posting more here, again. She makes me laugh the hardest of anyone here.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate: Here’s your ad hominem, WyldAsshole – This poll is still 18 months out from the election. Cassandra is in the third act.
Special Patrol Group
Also, too, this roommate’s girlfriend sounds like the second coming of Megan McArdle in that she was a pro-The Man, MBA-type and, oh yeah, wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Likewise, she didn’t have a potty mouth, whatever the fuck that’s worth.
Stillwater
@WyldPirate: Those voters are getting anxious and if they give up hope, they are going to sit out 2012.
I get it. Lefties sitting it out will will move back to the left. Nice!
Kilkee
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Pats! Long-suffering lions!Suh! Brady “wants to get hit” because it toughens him up!
Corner Stone
@Big Baby DougJ:
Me too.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Kilkee: Are they playing now?
Stillwater
@Big Baby DougJ: Maybe you know more than me (I check in on her blog everysooften), but she doesn’t seem to like us too much no more.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: Sure. I’ll assign that to my intern and get back to you shortly.
WyldPirate
@Sam Houston:
You know, come to think of it, we had a UC-Berkeley dweeb who turned up his nose and sniffed at anything non-Mac that landed in our lab around 95-96 that had a clunker Mac (a Quadra, I think) that constantly crashed. Now that you mention it, I think he had Microsoft Office on it–at least Word.
So my bad. I was going from this from Wikipedia:
So I don’t know if my memory is faulty or Wikipedia is telling an incomplete story.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@WyldPirate: Actually, I always figured your lower large intestine was what you thought was the entire universe.
handy
I’m not a fanboi but I am fascinated by stories about tech and the history of The Valley. I wouldn’t call Jobs Galtian or Roarkian. I would say he’s a humanist. The guy’s a billionaire, so obviously he loves him the money, and I couldn’t tell you a wit about his views on marginal tax rates. But one of his abiding beliefs, at least from the stories I’ve read about him, was that technology can empower. And that empowerment should be available to the people, and it should always be in service people, and not the other way around.
By most accounts he was a hard ass to the people who worked with him, but this is not a trait unique to Randian overlords. But more often then not his instincts were right.
WyldPirate
@Stillwater:
Lefties aren’t who Obama needs. He can’t win with just Dems or far-left Dems like the Obot buffoon brigade here at BJ.
Corner Stone
Thank you Matt Schaub.
/San Fran defense
Roger Moore
@WyldPirate:
They’re telling an incomplete story. Office was available for Mac for a long time; according to Wikipedia’s article on MS Office, it actually came out as a suite for Mac before it came out for PC. What happened in 1997 is that Apple was in bad enough shape that they needed a cash infusion. Meanwhile, Microsoft was worried about anti-trust prosecution. To ensure the continued existence of a nominal competitor for Windows, MS agreed to prop up Apple, including a promise to keep producing Office for Mac- a key application for Apple to be viable on the desktop.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WyldPirate:
and here I thought we were sell-out crypto-Republicans. Damn it’s so hard to keep up.
Stillwater
@WyldPirate: So he needs the middle? Isn’t that what you’re always criticizing Obama for: going to the middle?
CaseyL
@Omnes Omnibus:
You got that right :D
Actually, I was a Project Manager once upon a time, so I have had a taste of what it’s like to be a manager. I was great at the “project”part, lousy at the “management” part, because I had no sense of how to motivate people, or how to get everyone on board when not everyone wanted to be on board. I think I’ve learned quite a bit since then – mostly, a keen appreciation of people who do have those skills!
I think certain management tools or methods can be taught, and can be useful. But the ability to convince people, inspire and lead them? I think either you have it or you don’t. And if you don’t, all the fads and metrics in the world will only enable you to fake it for so long.
(Jobs had that skill, that gift. He had, like, a thousand persons’ worth of it.)
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@handy: Have you read “What The Doormouse Said”?
WyldPirate
@arguingwithsignposts:
You should go look at the poll. Then you should get down on your knees and pray that the trend of the last 4 months reperesented in that poll (and really polls that pre-date that) doesn’t continue for the next 15 months. That trend is people’s eroding confidence in Obama’s leadership abilities.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@CaseyL: My work tried to jam that PM shit down our throats while we were working with faculty to build online courses. Fucking waste of time.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate: You should keep it up for a while longer, maybe until Nov. 2012. Lots can happen between now and then. You say you won’t like saying “I told you so.” Somehow, I doubt it.
Oh, and btw, remember who was leading in August, 2007?
Yeah. STFU, troll.
Omnes Omnibus
@WyldPirate: Yeah, if the trend in the stock market in 2000 had continued, we’d all be rich, rich, rich.
Roger Moore
@CaseyL:
I don’t think that’s true. I think many of those things are more easily taught by example than by explanation, but they can be taught and, more importantly, learned. It’s fundamentally no different from any other skill. Different people have different natural ability and inclination, but they can still be improved with teaching and practice.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts: Another whistler, it seems.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@WyldPirate:
No, no, and no. They will be much better served by continuing to pray directly to President Obama.
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Amanda in the South Bay
@srv:
Alas, libertarianism is all too common here in Silicon Valley. I chalk it up to the fact that theres a shitload of money to be made here-I assume that once you start pulling in that high 5/low 6 figure salaries that are so ubiquituous here, that you start becoming selfish and everyone else who didn’t major in CS and land in the money bin of Silicon Valley doesn’t deserve jack shit.
WyldPirate
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Look at debit right below your post.
or try this from arguingwithposts…
I assume you were asking for examples of BJ Obama blind-ass buffoonery, no?
I posted about a simple poll that asked questions about Obama’s leadership and what people want to see from Obama. I didn’t really attack anyone, yet I knew what the post would elicit.
The mushy middle is wanting to see Obama call out the GOP according to the Pew poll. they are one of the most respected names in the polling business. Yet people here reflexively jump on the messenger.
Mind you, I’m not bitching about getting pounced on by the Obots. I can take that. “It don’t mean nothing” to me.
arguingwithsignposts
@Corner Stone: Oh for fuck’s sake. It’s 15 months out! Polls are worth shit at this point. You know that. WyldTroll knows that. Shit changes in a day, much less 15 months.
But keep calling me a happy-go-lucky Obot. I expect better from you. WP, not so much.
handy
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
No, but it looks good. Most of my knowledge of the nascent microcomputer era comes from Fire in the Valley and Hackers. The stuff I’ve read specifically about Jobs comes from Apple Confidential and The Second Coming of Steve Jobs.
darkmatter
@schrodinger’s cat: I’ll be mainlining everclear when that happens.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate: blind-ass buffoonery is your cassandra act at this point. What were the polls like a year ago? Hmmm? Stop talking out your ass.
debit
@WyldPirate: No, no, you don’t understand. It’s not that I have blind faith in Obama; it’s that your rabid, frothing hatred of him, your insistence on spreading said hatred in threads that have nothing to do with politics, your overwhelming dickishness, makes me wish I could figure out a way to beam my love for Obama at you JUST TO PISS YOU OFF EVEN MORE.
WyldPirate
@Omnes Omnibus:
OK, OO. Don’t make me change my high regard I hold for you given your well thought-out responses ;)
Obama’s leadership is being questioned (not only by me, but by the response to multiple polls). People like him personally, but they are losing faith in his leadership. His approval numbers are sliding. In 2.5 years he is now about where it took Shrub six years to get. The economy is in the fucking toliet and he doesn’t have much in the way of bullets in his economy “fix-it” gun. How does he reverse this trend with the GOP obstructionists standing in the way?
Don’t make me write you off as WPTGY by you starting a pattern of writing inane BS. ;)
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@Stillwater:
You are greatly insane, which is the opposite of insanely great. Microsoft is a convicted monopolist which has always hated competition and sought to destroy it by any means necessary. Read the “Knife the Baby” story for some typical Microsoft competition-encouraging behavior.
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handy
Bugger. Why am I in moderation? Too many links?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WyldPirate:
Even for you that’s stupid.
Brachiator
@srv:
Atlas Shrugged was one of them. That hardly makes Jobs a libertarian.
Shit, I read The Fountainhead, and it didn’t even make me turn Republican, let alone libertarian.
I take your point, but over the years I have seen a lot of people take management classes. The weird thing is that the people who are good leaders often find little things to add to their talents, while the bad managers just keep plodding along being bad managers.
Then again, I know people who take all kinds of classes, from martial arts to cooking to photography. Some get better, some excel, some just keep plodding along. I have yet to come to any conclusions about the effectiveness of training past a certain level.
As an aside, as I think about this, I recall one manager, very good at tech stuff and details, who consistently rejected the idea that he had to be a people person. This limited his career, but it was strange to see how he in effect sabotaged himself, since he appeared to have a lot of the right stuff.
WyldPirate
@Roger Moore:
Thanks. I kind of thought that that might be the case given what was in Wikipedia about the cash infusion from Microsoft.
handy
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
If that bastard Kildall didn’t insist on staying on that damn ski trip, just imagine how different things might have turned out for Billy and friends.
Honestly I think the real maniac at Microsoft is Ballmer. Gates was only psychotic in the Dick Cheney nuke-the-world-to-save-my-wallet way.
Stillwater
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: Ahh, UCT! You’re so cute, reading the headlines and arriving at ‘insightful’ and ‘cogent’ conclusions.
Gates invested in his primary competitor. How do you explain that?
Wait, don’t say it. It’s because he wanted to destroy the company from within, right? Just like Obama?
handy
@Stillwater:
Imma let the Clash explain to you what Gates was really up to.
WyldPirate
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ah, another WPTGY, head-up-their ass, Cult of Obama buffoon, speaks.
And you think Obama’s approval numbers are on a positive trajectory?
go look at this and then tell me who is fucking stupid, will you Jim, foolish literalist?
It looks to me like Obama is heading for Jimmy Carter territory.
Omnes Omnibus
@WyldPirate: You were talking about trends. My point is that trends are not immutable. Also, I do not think we will be able to tell much until the GOP nominee is clear. You run different campaigns against different opponents.
LosGatosCA
Sam Houston
@arguingwithsignposts: Ha! I have Merm Ave Vol 1. Cool!
anthrosciguy
I think in all these things you need a mix of types for any organization to work.
Of course you need them all, but to head the organization you need something other than a bean-counter manager.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@Stillwater:
Apparently you didn’t read the Knife the Baby saga, yet feel qualified to blow hard nevertheless. The balloonbagger sense of entitlement yet waves…
Established and mainstream financial and legal analysts have explained, should you ever do any actual research before opening your big yap, that it was an effort to prove that Microsoft was not abusing their desktop monopoly and engaging in illegal and immoral business practices. That effort was not successful. At the time, Apple had billions in the bank, so $150 million was not much of an “investment” and almost entirely symbolic.
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WyldPirate
@arguingwithsignposts:
Read the polling history above, you dumbfuck. If you can bother to pull your head out of your ass long enough. that is.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts: You know how to whistle, don’t you? Put your lips together and blow.
Corner Stone
@darkmatter:
Ahhhh, brings me back to my colorful yoot.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Yall’s about some cranky motherfuckers.
WyldPirate
@Omnes Omnibus:
I agree with you that trends and polls are not immutable. That’s a good point.
OTOH, what, given the current political climate, do you see turning around the current shitty economy? I don’t see much if anything, barring another terrorist attack or a “get your war on move” by the administration. Obama certainly isn’t going tpo get any help from the GOP saboteurs or the media.
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
Yep. The point here is that very successful people often fail. The key thing is how they react to failure.
It is also notable here that Jobs did not let pride get in the way of Microsoft’s offer of a lifeline.
I’ve known people who, in a similar circumstance, either give up entirely, having lost their nerve, or look for an opportunity to cash in their chips so that they can at least get a fat payout.
Stillwater
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: After the fact? Like lawyers and the DOJ would fall for an after the fact argument?
Do you think everyone’s as stoopid as you are?
Keith G
@debit:
I could be wrong at this, but I don’t think WP cares specifically about the level of adoration that you experience for our President. I am thinking that he cares more about Obama’s ability to keep an important part of the electorate connected to him.
Personally, I am glad you really dig the Obama. So so I.
WyldPirate
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
We need the distraction of college football cranking up, Raven. Though I will hate to see the fucking “ole ball coach” and the Gamecrocks pound my Pirates next Saturday. I’m afraid that’s going to get ugly.
Omnes Omnibus
@LosGatosCA: Nope, but believe what you want to believe.
Corner Stone
@WyldPirate: Go Cocks!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WyldPirate: It’s the way you phrased it, dumbfuck. As if those numbers were an accurate assessment of a presidency, as if the polls are based only on presidential actions, not on externalities like the economy, war, a major terrorist attack, a cowed press, a cowed opposition… Any of that ring a bell?
The fact that the public tends to blame or credit incumbent presidents on the economy, barring other major factors (see above), is not exactly the keen and original political insight you seem to think it is (“I was right about this months ago!” Congratulations. I’ll buy you a cookie). I’ve been saying for months that the election will be close, and that Obama’s re-election is at best a 55/45 shot. As others have said, it’s your childish obsession with criticizing Obama, even while you admit that there ins’t much more he can do on the economy, that makes you so tiresome.
Corner Stone
Oh Troy Nolan, I want to have your elebenty babies.
Stillwater
@handy:
So it’s a knife fight, eh? How bout this?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@WyldPirate: We’ve got em the next week after Boise State in the Dome next Saturday. Buncha people all the sudden like the Dogs, Beano picked us to win it all.
eta
I’m actually doing this, watching the Falcons and following what’s happening on the OBX on the Oregon Inlet Idiots facebook page. The focus has turned north but Hatteras is getting hammered but flooding from the sound.
BillinGlendaleCA (aka 10amla)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yup, DOW 36,000.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nah. You’re just a douche.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: What kills me was the implication that debit could pull the “Care Bear Rainbow” power move off and really work WP over.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: aw…. and I’ve always liked you.
WyldPirate
@Keith G:
Your not wrong, KeithG.
I think that if the economy doesn’t turn he’s in real trouble.
I live in NC. This past month, the raw numbers in NC show the unemployment going up. Obama won in NC by his thinnest margin. I don’t seeing him pulling it off again. He’s going to be in trouble in the Midwest and Florida, too IMO. He might pull off Virginia, but I have my doubts about it as well.
If he has problems in those states, it is going to be tough elsewhere as well.
I may be critical of Obama, but the last thing I want to see is one of the crazy motherfucking lunatics that the Rethugs have running as President. It is going to be bad enough when they take the Senate in 2012.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@Stillwater:
I see. You’re criticizing me for telling you what the financial and legal analysts said, while continuing to ignore all the relevant facts about the dispute, which is over Microsoft’s anti-competitive behavior such as monopoly abuse. You carry on this well-honed balloonbagger tradition of argumentation spectacularly well, I must say.
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Corner Stone
@Stillwater: I’m not even sure what you’re arguing any more.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, I’ve always been a bit of an overtipper…
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA (aka 10amla): Back in that time frame, I lived in Columbus, Ohio and the gym I used was in a building that also housed the local Smith-Barney offices and there was one car in the the parking garage that had a DOW 36K license plate. I wonder if the guy has changed plates.
Stillwater
@Corner Stone: No. I gave that up a while ago. I’m only looking for entertainment.
Corner Stone
God dammit Derrick Ward. Don’t they pay you to hold onto that fucking pigskin?
Keith G
@Omnes Omnibus: WP is not alone in his concern about trend lines, though he may be somewhat alone in his characterizations of this issue.
The President’s people have begun to see trend lines that they do not like (yes Arguing…even this far out)
Corner Stone
@Stillwater: Welcome!!
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Ooooo…Congress!!
That’ll show ’em!
Omnes Omnibus
@Keith G: I noted above that I expect Obama will be more aggressive over the next few months.
WyldPirate
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I made no such claim, but who the hell whipped out “even for you that is stupid, comment? And I’m sorry if I didn’t whip out a tome sufficient to satisfy your requirements
The fact is that there is a contingent here that reflexively attacks anyone-regardless of the content of their post that says anything negative about Obama. I can almost rattle them off by name now.
If you look at the numbers in that historical poll numbers I linked above, Obama looks to be in trouble. He is lower at this point in his Presidency than anyone but Carter. Reagan–who was also dealing with a shitty economy–at least had positive trends in the UI numbers, He didn’t have a raging, crazy obstructionists to deal with, either. He is on a negative trend with those numbers and Obama doesn’t look to have anything on the horizon to reverse that trend from an economic standpoint given the systemic changes in the economy from the 80s.
I thought some of these problems Obama faced would be evident to anyone paying attention, Perhaps I was wrong or perhaps you weren’t paying attention. Or perhaps you are a member of the Cult of Obama.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
As much as I hate to agree with Wyld, I think he (or she, not sure) has a point that should not be overlooked.
It’s not just about who Obama campaigns against. I commute with a diverse group of people who all voted for Obama. Some of them have lost a lot of enthusiasm, even as they continue to vehemently disagree with everything the GOP represents.
I had hoped that Obama would inspire the Democrats in Congress to get their shit together. Instead, both Obama and the Democrats have fallen back into their worst habits, and have largely capitulated to the GOP in many areas, especially tax policy.
This creates a dilemma, because I detest it when the best that the Democrats can offer is “vote for us, we’re crappy and inconsistent, but at least we are better than the alternative.”
And to be clear, I am not putting the entire onus on Obama. I have been greatly disappointed by the Clinton era people who returned to government and by many in the Congress who seem to be unaware that the economy is in a shambles and who offer little more than a variation of business as usual.
And I certainly have no use for worn out progressives, whose passion about their values disguises their utter inability to craft practical solutions to contemporary problems.
The Democrats have a lot of work to do to.
Keith G
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
But, but, but…the poll is saying that there are things that Obama can do to win more favor with the very group of voters who he must have to win. It means changing his comfort zone and his M.O.
An it seems the West Wing has belatedly caught on…
Better late than never. Now, if only B-J can get on board….
Edit
I do love the phrase “wrong and unfair”. So much for the Chicago Way.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Check out this incredible picture of Irene from NC.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Brachiator: And to be clear, I am not putting the entire onus on Obama.
That’s news to anyone who reads your posts.
D’oh, sorry, hit scroll accidentally and thought this was the WhinyPirate
WyldPirate
@Corner Stone:
Fuck the Cocks and fuck the ole ball coach.
@Raven–I hope ya’ll pound the shit out of both Boise and the ‘Cocks. The Vols, not so much. And Beano is an old dumb fuck, but I wouldn’t mind seeing ya’ll win the MNC.
WyldPirate
@Keith G:
Shhhh…one must not criticize Obama at BJ. It is verboten to do so or even present something else writes that criticizes Obama (unless you’re a frontpager then it’s okay..it gets the Obots REALLY frothed up).
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Now that’s some funny shit.
Corner Stone
@WyldPirate: How can anyone be against the Cocks?
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate: Strawmen don’t hold up in a windstorm, asshat. Perhaps you should change your nym to Timothy Schlongenhausen Interruptus WurstPersoninderWeltanschaung.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): The picture is NOT of Irene. It’s from Pensacola August 12. Sorry.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: Yeah, I do hope Axelrod and Jarrett rethink that one.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Corner Stone: With that shit-eatin dog-fucker for a coach who could be FOR them? WOOF!
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts: You seem a little angry.
Corner Stone
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Go Cocks!
Keith G
@Corner Stone: I sure am not!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@WyldPirate: We’ll see. The D should be way better, Murray is good but a freshman RB will have to prove himself.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Keith G:
If only he would use the bully pulpit!
Published: 05:29 PM, Thu Aug 11, 2011
Obama to GOP: Stop putting party before country
08/17/2011
Obama blames Tea Party in Congress for putting “party before country” and blocking his jobs ideas
Obama: Jobs Bills Stalled in Congress By Party Before Country Mentality
August 20, 2011 6:01 AM
Seems some people hear Obama criticizing Republicans, even if people here don’t.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Are you watching the Texans Pre-season?
SiubhanDuinne
@fleeting expletive:
I used to work at CNN Center (not for CNN — we were tenants) and used to run into him pretty often. He seemed to be very hands-on, and you’re right, he has always had that gift of making whomever he’s with at the moment feel like the
most importantonly person on the planet. Quirky, innovative, arrogant, troubled, incredibly sexy (IMHO). He’s one of my favorite people and I sure do wish he were still at the helm of CNN. Of course, if he were, we probably wouldn’t have Ted’s Montana Grill.Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: Are you still mad at me about something?
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
That’s so amazing, I half suspect it’s ‘Shopped. Fantastic image, regardless.
Keith G
@WyldPirate:
Speaking of which, this is a quote from Kay on the next thread:
I can’t say with certainty that Obama has been mute on this, but I do not recall the type of rallying attack that this type of infringement of the basic right demands. What the fuck is going on? We fought wars over this shit and the current leader of my party is…is..what?
Edited
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone:
LOL. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@SiubhanDuinne: From what I can gather it was Pensacola but I just pulled it off a thread I was following on the FB.
WyldPirate
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Fuck me…I skimmed over and ignored this earlier.
Excuse me for posting critical comments about a politician on something that is still–but just barely–primarily a political blog.
And as KeithG pointed out in his post, the poll and Obama’s advisers both seem to be pointing out that Obama needs to lose the “above the fray” mentality that hasn’t worked to this point.
Perhaps you don’t like my criticism and find it annoying. I find the “everything is alright” “I got this” mentality of you Obots irksome as well.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: Oh god no.
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
It’s an incredible, beautiful image.
WyldPirate
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
I remember a magical year 31 years ago when ya’ll had that very thing happen.
WyldPirate
@arguingwithsignposts:
Funny, I don’t consider a Pew poll to be a strawman, Herr Obot.
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone:
Seriously. I’m perplexed. Am I supposed to be mad at you? Have you done something so vile that even I would be miffed? Was I at one point mad at you about something that I’ve totally forgotten? Give me a little hint, please.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ll take that as an affirmative response.
Good enough.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne:
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/08/02/one-and-done-3/#comment-2705205
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone: Why are you fvcking with my head like this?
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m very delicate.
Keith G
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jim, come on. I thought we were past that.
The “bully” (here meaning ‘great’) pulpit is but one of the advantages that a president may utilize. It certainly is not a magic bullet and it needs to be used as part of a disciplined and proactive system of communications by the president and his team.
Accepting the role of Preisdent and wanting to be a good one implies a desire to learn and grow:
The latest numbers (Aug. 2011)are a lot lower.
Let’s see what Obama can learn from this
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WyldPirate:
and as I pointed out, he ditched that above-the-fray stuff after the debt ceiling deal was reached. A time and a season and all that. You’re arrogantly (“I was right months ago”) and obnoxiously (“buffoons…O-bots…ass-clowns, etc”) whining that Obama needs to do what he’s already started doing, and what every indication suggests he is planning to do in the fall. You can’t pretend to be all about substance when you brag about how much you like to pick fights. Though I have to say, you’ve done more to acknowledge that there’s an actual political context Obama operates in than I’ve ever seen you do before.
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone:
Well, I feel TERRIBLE that I upset you like that. Furthest thing from my mind, I assure you. I won’t be able to sleep tonight unless you tell me we’re friends. Friends?
:: mutters :: fvckin frail flower
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Keith G: Sorry, the trolls don’t usually get to me. I didn’t mean that to be a shot. But the point is that Obama has already started to try to change the conversation, which is what he can do. I said he can’t do much (on his own) about the economy, about unemployment. So you and I are actually in agreement, he can change the narrative (I think and hope) and he’s starting to do it.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ve missed sleep for a month now because I thought you fvcking understood. I’m an old softie. Just an open book, really.
Glad to have cleared that up! Thanks!
Corner Stone
House Special Lo Mein for everyone! On me!
WyldPirate
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What a load of horseshit.
First, I’m not going to apologize for being right months ago, It pissed me off that Obama waster=d nearly two goddamned years kow-towing to the Rethugs when a blind man could see what they were about. I raged for months about him “meeting them halfway” and giving away the farm on every position/policy proposal. He did it from day fucking one in office.
Secondly, I’m not going to apologize for using Obots or whatever term I use to make fun of you “cult of Obama” twits. You fools are every bit as bad as the unquestioning supporters of Bush. Morover, I didn’t start out doing that in this thread. I simply pointed out the findings of the Pew poll and reiterated my history of being pissed about Obama constantly kowtowing to Rethug rhetoric.
And what happened? I was jumped immediately.
I’ve got news for you..I’m not going to back down from anyone on here or anywhere else. Get fucking used to it or shut the hell up.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: Ming’s had a Lo Mein that could make the sun rise, the birds sing, and cool breezes blow.
I miss Ming’s.
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s funny. There are people who claim to be on the left who also seem to be professional Obama haters. I got no use for these people. I also got no use for people who obsess over polls, especially early polls.
A friend of mine loves Obama. Loves him. He is unhappy with some of the recent compromises, but will still vote for him. But there are others whose frustration the Democrats should be worried about.
Here’s the question: what would it take for Obama to be able to do something about the economy and unemployment? This is the narrative that Obama needs to build, the conversation that he needs to start having with the nation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WyldPirate: It’s almost a relief to see you revert back to full, spittle-flecked firebaggery. You were approaching coherence and adult discussion for a while and I was wondering if I’d confused you with NR or Jay B.
Um, yes, you did.
also in that first post, you said this
as I pointed out to you, Tiger, he started that a couple weeks ago. You’re whining about Obama needing to start doing something he started doing a couple of weeks ago. It really isn’t Obama’s fault, or that of us cultists, if you don’t follow the news. Also, too
Um… this is something that you and a whole lot of other people seem to have trouble understanding, so I’ll type this slowly and see if that helps you: Those first two years, Obama was negotiating with Democrats, who controlled both houses of Congress. Remember that, Skippy? Case in point, the stimulus that was too small and that’s all Obama’s fault: The White House reduced their original number because Nancy Pelosi (noted coward and Republican sell-out, I know) told them she couldn’t get a trillion through the House; then the Senate, led by Democrats (Claire McCaskill, Ben Nelson, they’re called “Senators”, I’ll explain to you what they do another time) made it even smaller, before Olympia Snowe or Arlen Specter even got in the game. Was that slow enough for you? Remember: Democrats.
You’re going to keep posting on a blog? Honest and for true? In spite of the fact that people on that blog disagree with you? Awesome! Did I ever tell you you’re my hero? Martin Luther King and Eugene V Debs could’ve taken lessons in courage from you!
Didn’t you just call me thin-skinned? Funny.
By all means, keep up your heroic typing. You are changing the world by insulting a couple of dozen people with pseudonyms, while using a pseudonym yourself. Just a small, friendly suggestion: Maybe you should bone up on the facts before you continue your self-righteous, petulant “raging”. You don’t seem to have a real firm grasp of current, or past, events.
Keep on keepin’ it real, man!
Now what kind of cookie would you like?
arguingwithsignposts
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Whew. Cigarettes, anyone?
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And to think, after all that, not a wit of understanding will be gained by the intended recipient.
@arguingwithsignposts:
No thanks, but I could stand a drink for sure.
xian
@WyldPirate:
Well that’s a lie. What else do you do (besides spout half-baked tech opinions)?
xian
@Keith G: pretty sure wyld guy is actually more about concern trolling and making real Democrats worry about this or that possible failure by their standard bearer. He(?) roots for failure under the guise of concern, with an ever-shifting series of reasons. Basically a wet blanket.
I think the Jimmy Carter line with a tell. Instead I suggest comparing the arc of Obama’s popularity with Reagan’s.
xian
@WyldPirate: re
actually what I think you’ll find is that people object to your dickish tone and annoying personality and will not jump down the throat at all of someone who isn’t personally offensive making points similar to your more constructive observations.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
Eh? Word and Excel started as Mac products, back when WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3 and QuattroPro dominated the PC wordprocessing and spreadsheets. MS was keen to partner with Apple to get some success in developing applications under their belt.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
“Alas, libertarianism is all too common here in Silicon Valley.”
Yeah, but Silicon Valley is still way more Democratic leaning that its income level would suggest. I ascribe this to the large number of naturalized citizens from India and China repelled by the xenophobia of the California GOP.
You even have some VC’s worth More Than God (John Doerr, for example) that are big Democrat contributors.