This is Jamison Foser’s edit of the Perry/Obama comparison picture (click to embiggen). I like it better than the one Libby Spencer made. It would be perfect if the title was something like “Let’s Not Get Fooled Again”. I realize that it’s less high-minded and more backward-looking, but it encapsulates the extremely simple, winning message that will beat Perry: he’s just another Bush. Sometimes politics is very simple, and this is one of those times.
Update: Reader Chris sends his own version.
SiubhanDuinne
Thanks, mistermix. I had the same reaction. Sometimes you just have to fight simple with simple.
PurpleGirl
How many people, though, will see Bush and still think he was okay because he was in the National Guard? I have neighbors who damned Kerry as being a traitor for what he said after he left the Navy. Who still consider him as having less honor than Bush. And they don’t want to hear that he stopped flying because of skipped doctor’s appointment or that he got jumped into front of a few hundred men to get a slot in the NG.
Danny
“Fool me twice… Won’t get fooled again”?
mistermix
@Danny: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Viva BrisVegas
It’s all very well to be proud of your military service, but if you are going to brag about it and use it to put other people down, shouldn’t you have put your life on the line for your country at least once?
What did Perry ever risk apart from jetlag?
Also too, that is not a C130 he is standing in front of.
JPL
Personally, I thought Jenny had the right idea. She posted pictures at comment #3 and #4 but I liked this one.
link
Danny
@mistermix:
When will you stop misunderestimating the accidental wisdom of Dubya?
mistermix
@JPL: I think that’s a funny one, but the other thing I like about the version I posted is that it can be used with a minimum of the usual right-wing victimization. The Saddam comparison would lead to whining, and they’ll even whine about the Obama one because we’re exploiting the soldier’s sacrifice. This picture just shows something that’s obvious to anyone who watches Perry for 5 minutes: he’s GWB after a couple of drinks.
magurakurin
@Danny: ping pong. you’re the winner Danny
Canadian Shoggoth
I also think that “Read my lips: No new Texans.” works fairly well
Dennis SGMM
It sure is. A simple question like, “Are you better off now than you were four years ago?” could be devastating no matter who is asking it.
PeakVT
I think a comparison between that ridiculous letterman pic of Perry and Obama leaning against the wall would be amusing, though not as hard hitting as the pic up top.
JPL
@mistermix: The reason I liked that picture was it takes away Perry’s image as a manly man cowboy. He’ll use his love of guns to prove that he’s macho and a side by side picture with Saddam, changes that image. IMO..
The subtle approach is nice but the teabag folks miss Bush.
paul Thomas
Has anyone ever found W’s DD-214?
Danny
Admit it you guys, you miss him just a little bit.
dpCap
this seems like it could backfire to me. I can already see this photo getting passed around with the new line:
SiubhanDuinne
@dpCap:
Among the wing nut base, you’re right. But I think the independents (who will decide the election) would get the message we’re after.
MattF
I’d entitle it “Uh-Oh”.
gnomedad
My experience is that teabaggers pretend to dislike Bush until someone just like him comes along.
Syphon
I kinda like this one
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/SyphonBlue/presidents.png
Svensker
@Danny:
Well, he was a genius at language mangling, you gotta give him that.
kd bart
“Those who don’t remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
Mustang Bobby
@kd bart: Also, too:
Grumpy Code Monkey
BUSH.
WAS.
ELECTED.
TWICE.
And there are a considerable number of people who would vote for him again if they could, and they will happily vote for Perry simply because he’s white. The tighter you try to link Perry to Bush, the more popular you are going to make him with at least half the country who thought we were genuinely better off four years ago.
rikryah
I really liked these pics. thanks
Violet
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
Or he was elected once and appointed by the Supreme Court once.
RSA
@Canadian Shoggoth:
Or “Don’t mess with Texans.”
boss bitch
@dpCap:
Got Osama Bin Laden killed?
rikryah
Grumpy,
Bush was not elected in 2000. he was SELECTED by the Supreme Court.
2004 – Ohio. You can believe he won that state if you wish; it is your prerogative.
How bad was George W.Bush?
So bad that this country elected a BLACK MAN as President of the United States.
Not many White folks are willing to vocalize this, but that is, in essence, what happened. He was so awful that this country said, ‘eh, the Black guy can’t do any worse’.
Danny
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
Bush bottomed out at 25% approval and a majority still blame him for the state of the economy rather than Obama. Those who’ll vote Perry because he’s white like Bush aren’t persuadable. They’re the 25 percenters. How do you suggest we reach them?
schlemizel - was Alwhite
I created a variation on this image with the exact quote from Boy Blunders speech in Tenn. where he botcher the old canard about fool me once. Looks pretty good.
@RSA:
I love thay, gonna make another that reads, “Read my lips, No new Texans”
boss bitch
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
More than half the country still blames Bush for the economy. Perry should not want to be tied to George Bush.
boss bitch
@Danny:
This is one is perfect and can be used on all fronts because the Republicans are still trying to push the same ole policies that have been proven ineffective time and time again.
gnomedad
@rikryah:
Some commenter here reported a canvassing experience along these lines:
Woman (calling out): Who’re we voting for?
Man: We’re voting for the nigger.
Dennis SGMM
@boss bitch:
Your argument would be valid if Perry was advocating Bush’s policies under Bush’s name or if he was touting Bush as a great leader. I doubt that Perry even says the word “bush” outside of the privacy of his own home.
schlemizel - was Alwhite
@gnomedad:
I remember that. At the time I thought “Great, we have the ignorant bigot vote leaning the right way, this should be a cakewalk.”
My fear is next year that same clown will say “Why’d I ever vote fer a nigger?”
dpCap
@boss bitch: They already have a response for that on the link that mistermix provided:
Yes, blah blah blah, Obama was more involved than Bush and Republicans have been critisising Obama’s staff even though they’re the same people Bush had. Yadda yadda yadda uppity.
You can’t win. :(
Glen Tomkins
Sometimes politics is too simple
Yes, a big part of Obama’s appeal was probably that he was the anti-Dubya. People really were fed up with Dubya by 2008.
Well, the electorate is showing signs of being really fed up with Obama here in 2011. If that trend doesn’t reverse soon, a Dubya clone would seem to be the perfect candidate to serve as an anti-Obama in 2012.
Don’t misunderestimate Perry.
Dennis SGMM
Thank goodness Americans never vote their wallets.
Danny
@Dennis SGMM:
Aren’t you getting ahead of yourself with the pro-Perry concern trolling and all? I thought the anti-Obama party line was that Obama is to much of a p-ss- to take it to the repubs. But now we’re suddenly all supposed to be scared sh-tless that calling Perry Dubya 2 is gonna backfire on our -sses.
I’ll ask you the same question I asked Code Monkey: how do you think we should attack Perry?
After all, Perry sounds and looks like Bush and he is advocating the same policies as Bush. (With the exception of NCLB and Medicare Part D. And those weren’t what made Bush unpopular – whatever the Teaparty thinks.) This attack vector will resonate – because it’s the truth.
PurpleGirl
@Grumpy Code Monkey: I was way better off four years ago but I would NEVER vote for a Republican. It was their ass backward policies and ideas that led to the financial crisis and that then led to my becoming unemployed. It is their idealogy that is keeping this country from recovering. Many Democrats helped them but the Republicans are the ultimate cause.
Dennis SGMM
@Danny:
“Concern trolling,” hardly. “Pro Perry,” eat shit and die.
If you had the brains that God gave a pissant you’d realize that Perry is a real threat in the flyover states for the very reasons that we deride him. Ad hominem attacks, rather than challenging his policy positions with facts will backfire badly.
Polling as late as July suggests that Americans are still divided on the benefits of ACA. FinReg is a bad joke. While Americans may blame Bush for the state of the economy whom are they going to blame for failing to turn it around?
Obama is going to have a very difficult time getting re-elected. Superficial bullshit like “Perry sounds like Bush,” doesn’t make for a bumper sticker.
Danny
@Dennis SGMM:
Smearing valid attacks on Perry’s suitability as POTUS and CiC as “Ad Hominems”.
Then the pivot back to attacking the President and congressional democrats.
Yes, you are a stellar “progressive”, Dennis. Still looking like a Op Chaos:er to me, my friend. Or, possibly, a self-hating liberal. Either way, you’re not making sense and you ain’t got nothing to offer.
Frankensteinbeck
@Glen Tomkins:
Actually, it’s not that bad. Considering the economy, his high 40s approval numbers are insanely good, and he’s beating all of his Republican opponents in polls of how people would vote. This early in the election process, that’s amazing. He’s beating ‘Generic Republican’, for pity’s sake, and that’s just unreal. People always love the challenger until the election’s well under way and they’ve had a chance to see his faults up close and personal. Not this time.
To sum up, everybody’s pissed about the economy, but while they’re sulky Obama hasn’t fixed it, they’re furious at the Republicans for standing in his way.
Bruuuuce
“Been there, done that, still paying off the bill.”
Tim in SF
That image is hard to see. I fixed it. Use this one instead.
http://bit.ly/oRP82u
jibeaux
Well, we’ve got a very serious case of Battered Spouse Syndrome if we vote for Rick Perry, is all I’m gonna say about that. Oh, and I really miss Molly Ivins. I’m sure she could expound at length on “The next time I tell you someone from Texas should not be president, please pay attention.”
PanAmerican
WGAF
The reflexive reactions from liberals of certain ages `shrug’ it’s not 1988. Perry isn’t going to beat Obama on D-FENS.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Dennis SGMM: Considering the market’s (relatively) stable, the unemployment rate is also stable, and the auto and banking industries are no longer on Federal life support, I’ll go ahead and say that yeah, things are better than they were four years ago.
Never underestimate the ability of a good campaigner to remind the voters of that fact, either. Bush is a boat anchor, and don’t think Obama won’t lasso that sucker around Rick Perry’s flight suit.
Libby
Thanks for the shoutout but to be clear, I didn’t do any of those edits. I don’t know from teh photoshop. I think it was delrayser who posted the other one on the twitter. But also, too, think all the edits are better than the original.
My point in my post was I think people were hearing the wrong dog whistle. Or least I was hearing a different one.
John Weiss
@Danny: Not hardly.
wrb
I think the Perry campaign, or at least his supporters, will probably use that poster to good effect.
Fighter pilots good, community organizers bad.
People will just see it as showing “Bush’s good side”
boss bitch
@Dennis SGMM:
He is pushing Bush’s policies – just a more extreme version and there is enough video of him praising/endorsing/hanging around with Bush to tie them together. Obama was able to tie McCain to Bush.
Villago Delenda Est
@paul Thomas:
He’s got a DD-214, but frankly, it’s a piece of shit. There’s no record of him ever reporting to the MA National Guard that he was supposedly reassigned to when he left Alabama (where he missed drills) to go to Harvard to pickup his pre paid for MBA, seeing as the University of Texas wouldn’t accept him into its law school.
Officers who desert (which is what Bush did) should hang, so at least they can provide an example to the enlisted. I say this as a former officer myself.
Villago Delenda Est
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
In 2000, Bush was elected with 50% of the female vote, 100% of the black and Italian votes.
cleek
doesn’t Perry have to, like, win a primary or two before he becomes the nominee? or, are we just going to skip that part?
Dennis SGMM
@Danny:
I’ve only been voting Democratic and doing GOTV work for the Democratic party since 1968 so you’re probably right on both counts. I’ve also lived for years in the reddest part of a Red state so my take on Perry’s electability has to be wrong.
boss bitch
@dpCap:
You mean Gates? pfffftt….I could pull up clips of him genuinely praising Obama. The admiration and respect he has for him is just oozing off the screen like starbursts. I exaggerate but not by much.
I get your point but Obama has plenty of ammunition and he’s already beaten a military man. McCain never missed an opportunity to say “POW”.
boss bitch
@cleek:
Perry has never lost a campaign and never makes a mistake.
so I’m told.
boss bitch
@Glen Tomkins:
Sorry. The public’s frustration with Obama is no where near their anger towards Bush.
boss bitch
I know people want to be extra cautious but we gotta stop acting like ‘Rick Perry Can’t Lose’.
wrb
@boss bitch:
Maybe where you live. ‘Round here (an evenly split purple rural county in a blue state) it is barely safe to mention Obama in public, while Bush nostalgia is strong.
Glen Tomkins
@Frankensteinbeck: I think you’re mistaken on the idea that everybody likes the challenger early on. At least at the presidential level, the generic incumbent has a sizeable built-in advantage. For it to be so close for Obama this far out, is actually a pretty bad indicator. The challengers, especially before any one of them achieves the inherent credibility of getting their party’s nomination, all face a steep hurdle appearing “presidential”. Once their side actually nominates anyone, that person, no matter how extreme you could say now his or here views are, gains instant credibility as the choice of one of the country’s two mainstream parties.
As for Obama sloughing blame for the economy off on the Rs, well, that’s tricky under any circumstances, but for such a strategy to even begin to work, Obama would have to, you know, start blaming the Rs for the economy. Instead he’s embracing their economic prescription — tax breaks for the “job creators” and austerity for the rest of us.
FDR is the only example I can think of of a modern president (since the electorate started holding presidents accountable for the economy) managing to get re-elected despite a bad economy. He did that by admitting that the economy was bad, but presenting to the electorate a consistent ideological stance of why that was the case, and why the other party’s ideology would make the economy even worse if put into practice.
What we have from this president, in contrast, is someone consistent only in avoiding ideological clarity and consistency. He came out with health care reform whose workings even I can’t explain to the average voter as I canvass, and I’m an MD with an MPH. Maybe he couldn’t get anything clear passed by Congress. But then the right course, if he wanted to establish and keep faith with the electorate, would have been forthright advocacy of a clear plan, and an appeal to give him a Congress at the next election that would pass that clear plan.
Gee, and I’m just talking about the halcyon days before the 2010 election, before the man went completely Republican in his every public utterance on the economy.
If there’s only one economic plan on offer — tax breaks for the rich and austerity for the rest of us — why would any but the committed partisan voter not turn in 2012 to the party that offered that plan first and most sincerely? Above all, why would they not turn to a candiate that they can at least still tell themselves might be decisive in pursuing any economic remedy, as opposed to the known quantity trimmer already in the WH?
Dennis SGMM
@Glen Tomkins:
There you have it. What is Obama going to run on?
boss bitch
@wrb:
Okay, but the presidential race is nationwide.
wrb
@Danny:
DON”T do it using flight suit images, especially with Obama polling as a “weak leader.”
If some cheerleading or flubbing images can be found, ok, but in all I don’t think drawing a connection to Bush helps. Times were better under Bush.
wrb
@boss bitch:
Obama will almost certainly win my state. I figure the situation has to be worse in actual swing states.
Danny
@Dennis SGMM:
Maybe your red state residency is what’s gotten you so confused that you now find it easier to unload on the President and congressional democrats than to participate in a discussion asking reasonable questions whether america really needs yet another Texas governor who thinks that Social Security is a ponzi scheme, that torture is patriotic, that cutting taxes for the rich stimulates growth. That’s what’s on offer here.
When you start quacking like a Sam’s club voter perhaps it’s time you get out of Red Lobster country.
Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water
There seems to be a lot of people who seem to want to come up with a bumper sticker slogan that will convince every tea partier of the error of their ways. That’s never going to happen – focus instead on what should be your target market – independents and whatever moderate republicans still exist. There’s nothing wrong with reminding them that Perry is Bush revisited as long as that is not your main selling point
boss bitch
@wrb:
This is an effective lie if left unchecked. Bush, along with help from the MSM covered up our deteriorating economy/country very well. Obama came in when it all exploded and now we have a Republican House doing a great job of stopping any positive growth.
cleek
election day 2008, the DJIA was at 9,625.
by that measure, things are much better now.
Dennis SGMM
@Danny:
Gee, you’re so insightful. Thanks for pointing out that a Perry presidency would be harmful, I hadn’t realized that until now.
You’re residency in Red Lobster country has left you ignorant of the inclinations of the rest of the country. May you continue to find something, or someone else to blame in perpetuity.
I unload on the Democratic president and the Democratic Congress because I’m a democrat and they fucked up. They fucked up so badly that the House is now in Republican hands. With 23 Democratic Senate seats to defend in ’12 my party faces a steep, uphill fight.
There’s a difference between realistically assessing the political landscape and mindless cheerleading.
Paul in KY
@PurpleGirl: Fuck em. You just can’t reason with that level of stupidity. Just hope they don’t make it into the voting booth.
Corner Stone
@boss bitch: We’ve had U3 over 9% for 28+ months. I hope in the upcoming speech President Obama pins his ears back and brings some solid testifying.
If good policy can’t actually be passed then good politics needs to be implemented.
Glen Tomkins
@boss bitch: Let’s hope it doesn’t get that bad.
But if you’re relying on the big numeric difference between Dubya’s 20s late in his last term, and Obama’s 40s now, I wouldn’t lean too hard on that weak reed.
When a president reaches lame duck status, people feel free to tell pollsters what they really feel, feelings now unmixed with what they might earlier have hoped for, without fear of making “the only president we have” appear weak. Dubya didn’t hit the 20s until he was a lame duck. Carter was mid 40s in September 1979.
People look at the fact that Obama is going to be president for a year and a half, and they look at the R field right now, and of course they tend to rally around the flag. They did the same for Carter when the R field had that crazy extremist, Reagan, looking like he might take the R nomination. But once any of these R extremist boobs take the nomination of one of our two mainstream parties, they immediately get totally undeserved credibility as serious and mainstream, no matter how crazy many people now perceive them as being. They automatically become viable alternatives to the incumbent.
If unemployment is still above 9% by Labor Day next year, even folks who should be voting, easily, for our side, will be looking for an alternative.
What better alternative than the anti-Obama? No, the electorate will not, beyond the 23% dead-enders, look back with any fondness for Dubya. But many more than that 23% will convince themselves that this time, they will get the Texas firmness and clarity they wanted from Dubya, without the pig-headed thickness that went with it last time. Any clarity and strength of expression will seem better than the terminally nuanced mush that Obama delivers, and that has delivered >9% unemployment.
Danny
@Dennis SGMM:
That’s not what you were doing. You were saying that pointing out similarities – in style and substance – between Rick Perry and Dubya amounted to “Ad Hominems” and that if we dared point out those similarities we would surely lose. Then you took that as a pretext for yet another rant about the failure and unelectability of Obama and dems in congress. That certainly sounds like something a republican would say to me. Sorry about that. I call em like I see em.
I think you Emobaggers will find that if your schtick is gonna be relentless criticism of the president for being to non-confrontational, while at the same time you concern-trolling about how we cant ever take it to the repubs because “it’s gonna backfire” and we’re “misunderestimating them”, well that’s gonna look… funny.
wrb
@Danny:
Associating Perry with positive pictures of Bush (which is what most people will consider the flight-suit picture) isn’t taking it to Perry, it is helping him.
The case against Perry isn’t that he’s like Bush, it is that he is far more extreme. Equating him to Bush obscures that message, helping Perry.
Danny
@wrb:
Suuuure. That’s why Perry and his campaign is out there every day trying to put distance between him and Dubya. Because being associated with the the former president that had the worst approval ratings in modern history is gonna help him. Plz, any more firebagger wisdom from flyover country?
wrb
@Danny:
I’m on the coast, and there are few more hostile to firebaggers.
Thinking that the flight suit image won’t be seen as a positive shows some pretty deep isolation, the kind that loses elections.
benjoya
how about a picture of perry at age 18 -21, when he chose to go to college rather than serve his country in a time of war?
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Danny:
Majority of whom?
How do we attack Perry? By attacking what he did, not how much he sounds like Bush.
This “small-government” conservative mandated vaccinations for adolescent girls against the sexually transmitted human papilloma virus (which is the right thing to do, although he issued the mandate for the wrong rea$son), advocated a mass taking of private property for commercial development (the now-defunct Trans-Texas Corridor), and, oh yes, came up with the whole “Tits for Tots” program, advocating a surtax on strip clubs to pay for education.
The so-called “Texas Miracle” left us with something like a $25 bn deficit for this biennium. Might want to talk about that a bit.
You don’t have to compare him to Bush to convince people he’s a bad choice. He’s the longest-serving Governor in Texas history; has has a record to attack. There’s a strong indication that he knowingly allowed the execution of an innocent man. Because nothing says “tough on crime” like killing people for no good reason.
It took a botched response to a natural disaster and the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression to sour the public on Bush. Unless a hurricane destroys Houston, or Texas somehow triggers a massive banking crisis that makes Enron look like a shoplifting incident at the 7-11, Perry’s not going to have that kind of ill will against him.
You want to quibble about the Supreme Court and election shenanigans? Fine. Irrelevant, but fine. Bush may have never had the mandate he claimed, but that never stopped him from governing like he did. All Perry needs is that 50% + 1, and unless we engage in a GOTV that dwarfs 2008, he may damned well get it. Given the usual noise coming from the right plus the purity brigade on the left whining about how Obama’s no better than Bush, it’s not guaranteed we’ll get that turnout.
Danny
@wrb:
Which flight suit image are you referring to – the one from Bush patriotic youth, or the one from the Mission Accomplished photo op? Or you saying real murikans have the same warm feelings for both, right? And you’re also saying that the point of the image – “while it may be impressive to have served as a fighter pilot, that’s what they said about Bush and look what a failure he turned out to be” – you’re saying that real murkans are to thick to get that, right? But Obama’s magical bully pulpit can convince real murkans of anything, including have Gitmo terrorists incarcerated in their local jail, single payer and a 3 trillion stimulus, right?
General Stuck
@Danny:
I say fuck the firebaggers, Danny. They offer nothing but the thrill of defeat, whatever their motives are. There are a bunch of good reasons it will be easy to define Perry as the right wing nutcase he is. Way more than Bush ever had. But he or anyone else the wingers throw up can win, and shouldn’t be taken lightly by our side. Which is not the firebagger side. Their side is with the teabaggers to defeat Obama, no matter what they say to the contrary, or how many past dem creds they throw up, to cover up what they are about. Again, fuck em. We got better places to spend our energies toward keeping the WH in dem hands.
edit – to whit, Perry has come out four square to abolish The New Deal as being unconstitutional, and even wrote it in a book recently. Bush didn’t have that, until after he won a second term, when he did come out for dismantling SS, his poll numbers got stuck at 30 Percent his second term.
Tom Q
@wrb: There’s no such thing as a positive image of Bush, any more than there’s a positive image of Nixon. (You could show him in his navy uniform; people’d still see “crook”) Associating Perry with 22% popular Bush is zero risk for Dems.
I think emobaggers really WANT Obama to lose, to prove how right THEY were all along. Obama won’t give you that satisfaction.
wrb
@Danny:
No they are to smart to fall for such an weak and idiotic attempt to tar by association
“While it might be impressive to have earned an MD, Mengle earned an MD and look how he turned out to be.”
“Fighter pilot” has positive and romantic associations ideal when going against one that firebaggers have been doing their best to tar as a weak leader. I bet some of those very baggers who have been demanding that Obama make bold noise are swayed toward Perry by the picture.
Danny
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
You say all that like it’s an either or proposition, but that’s a false dichotomy if there ever were one. Of course we will do both. Both attack Perry for being like Bush, and for being more extreme than Bush. It doesnt even have to be the same persons doing the attacking.
Perry’s campaign is doing everything they can to inocculate him against comparisons to Bush. That tells any reasonable progressive all they need to know: Perry’s campaign is afraid of Bush comparisons hurting them, ergo Bush comparisons are gonna be one (of many) potent weapons that can be used against them.
A Bush comparison is especially apt re: the race-baiting Ad Hominem picture that Jamison Foser’s picture is a response to. That original David Limbaugh picture is the one that brought up Perry in flight suit. It contrasted that picture against one of Obama in a slick 70s outfit. The implication being Perry was a patriotic murkan, Obama was a black pimp hitting the streets looking for white women.
The response picture is brilliant because it attacks Perry’s perceived strength – him being white and all american – and ties that in with something that americans tried and know they don’t like.
Your and wrb’s and Dennis suggestion – the Emobagger position – is that Obama and Obama supporters should take the race baiting lying down. Caving as it were. Because you falsely propose that hitting back hard in the nuts and comparing the Bush lookalike Perry to Bush would somehow mean that we lose the option of painting Perry as a dangerous radical. But that’s false. There’s no problem at all with saying that Perry is a carbon copy of Bush – only much more extreme. But with the same bad judgement, the same jingoisms. Incidentally that is also the truth.
cleek
@Tom Q:
i think you’re 100% right.
or, to give them the benefit of my not being able to read minds: their words and actions are difficult to distinguish from what one would expect from people who want Obama to lose.
Danny
@wrb:
Let me illustrate this for you:
A: A background as a painter is a sure sign of a thoughtful soul and thus makes someone more suitable for leadership positions.
B: Hitler was a painter and look how that turned out. You’ll have to find a better measure of your candidates qualifications if I’m gonna vote for your guy.
You saying that B is somehow unreasonable and that murkans wont get B? You sure as hell dont seem to get it, but I do really think there are murkans who would.
wrb
@Tom Q:
Perhaps this is how it appears from extremely blue areas, but it is an illusion. By last December Bush had moved ahead of Obama in popularity, according to Gallup, and that was when Obama was still polling strongly. I haven’t seen a more recent poll.
I’m as strong an Obot as they come. This isn’t about Obama. This is about a picture, and an apparent inability to that will back-fire and hurt Obama and help Perry. Perry in a flight suit supports just the perceptions the right and the firebaggers want to propagate.
And they will be voting for Obama regardless. For the many of the rest “fighter pilot” still connotes someone who has excelled, is decisive, etc.
It stupid for Obama supporters to help Perry spread that perception of himself, especially at a time when much of the public seems to want a daddy.
Unless they really want Obama to lose.
Kilkee
@Villago Delenda Est: A winner!
Danny
@wrb:
Do you have a link to the poll that had Bush at higher favorability than Obama? W/r/t the flight suit – a picture of Perry in a flight suit is already out there. It was created by David Limbaugh and it’s coupled with a picture of a young Obama meant to race bait and unfavorably contrast Obama and Perry.
Are you saying that it’s better for Obama if Limbaughs picture is the only one out there, the race baiting one?
This seems to me exactly backwards. I’d say that people who will vote for Perry over the response pictures in this thread would have voted Perry any way. After all – Perry was a fighter pilot; Obama was a community organizer. There’s no way to stop the Perry campaign from bringing up his military service or Obama’s lack of the same. And they will. Question is – are they gonna be the only voice out there?
These pictures here wont make it out of the liberal bloggosphere unless the original does. They are a response to the original picture and handy as a retort. But that’s all they are. Painting Perry as Dubya redux, thats gonna go mainstream at some point though and it’s gonna help Obama and hurt Perry.
wrb
@Danny:
Dec: 47% v 46%
Note: one of the stories on the sidebar of the linked page is titled “Rihanna and J Cole Sex Tape” I don’t have the stomach to look.
Tom Q
@wrb: Gallup has for a decade now been second only to Rasmussen in spreading right-wing frames. (Look at the lightning speed with which they passed around the one-day reading from a three-day tracking poll a week or so back, when everyone knows that’s not reliable data) It’s not George Gallup’s organization anymore. And, as Danny has been pointing out throughout this thread, there’s a ton of polling info showing the opposite: that Bush remains massively unpopular, and WAY more blamed for economic conditions (the only negative surrounding Obama’s re-election campaign) than the current administration.
I have no doubt you’re saying all this in fervent support of Obama. But the same was true for all those who freaked out in the few days after the ’08 GOP convention, screaming that Obama was blowing the election and had to DO SOMETHING. Democrats have too little self-confidence; they’re constantly worrying about things that don’t turn out to be important, and pre-emptively deciding against doing things that might help. I just don’t see this as the negative you do.
Danny
@wrb:
I think you’re reading to much into that poll. Look into it and you’ll find that e.g. Jimmy Carter was at 61% approval in 2006 and 52% approval in 2010, beating Dubya with 14% and 5% respectively. And yet accusing Obama of being a black Jimmy Carter was one of the first lines of attacks they went for when he was in office.
Edit: Dubya is also second worst in the poll (ahead of Nixon only). While in office, Obama hasnt even been close to Bush approval numbers when Bush was at his nadir. Obama is at least +13% on Bush w/r/t their floors up to this point. Reagan was at much lower numbers than Obama’s been and yet he successfully hammered the Carter admin.
wrb
@Danny:
I wasn’t reading anything concerning Obamas popularity. I was pointing out that confidence that Bush still has toxic unpopularity is misplaced, and strategies that rely on the belief are thus liable to be sub-optimal.
Danny
@wrb:
So you consider Carter polling @61% in 2006 proof that republicans attacking Obama as a weak and ineffectual leader a la Carter in 2009 were misguided, suboptimal and maybe helping Obama?
Carters numbers went down 9% between 2006 and 2010 – significant or just statistical noice? But if the latter, wouldnt that mean that maybe Bush approval was @38%?
Drawing some big conclusion from one single data point where Bush achieves the same approval rating as there were McCain voters in 08 seems misguided when – as pointed out – numerous polls show more voters still blame Bush over Obama for the economy. Not saying that Obama is unbeatable in 2012, but if you believe that painting someone as Bush redux is gonna be net negative for Obama because a majority prefer Dubya back at that point, then Obama’s is very likely to lose, whatever he says.
lethargytartare
@Glen Tomkins:
that’s some grade A BS right there.
you’re wither willfully ignorant, or woefully dishonest.
Danny
Btw, the WPost is headlining a piece pointing out the HUGE difference between Bush and Perry right this very minute. That’s not by accident; that’s the Perry campaign having worked their little asses off trying to get exactly that meme out there – because they’re scared shitless of what Perry’s carbon copy Bushian speech pattern and appearance will do to them in the general.
boss bitch
@Corner Stone:
Uhm, pretty sure Obama can do good politics.
Stefan
Times were better under Bush.
Yeah, and Bernie Madoff was a great money manager.
Until, that is, both their schemes unravelled.
Corner Stone
@boss bitch: I guess we’ll see shortly what tack he chooses.
boss bitch
@Glen Tomkins:
I’m talking as a voter. I’m not relying on their approval ratings. There were numbers being shown around from a recent Pew research that showed that a large majority trusts Obama. They believe that he “stands up for what he believes in” and that he’s “warm and friendly”. The public still likes Obama and they want him to succeed. No they are not happy with everything, but put up against other Repubs, they choose Obama. If you don’t want to look at polls, look at the reception he gets when he steps outside of DC. Pundits and political junkies often fail to see what’s going on on the ground.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Danny:
I never said or implied any such goddamned stupid thing.
I’m going to try this again.
I think painting Perry as another Bush isn’t the best strategy (especially during the primary season). I think a better strategy is to focus on Perry’s own mistakes. I never said nor implied that we had to pick one exclusively over the other.
How you got from there to “we should take the race-baiting lying down; cave, as it were” is a mystery for the ages; I suspect a cognitive disorder, myself.
Paul in KY
@Grumpy Code Monkey: You also need to educate people in other states that in Texas, Governor is less powerful than Railroad Commissioner.
To me, it is essential, because people in states with powerful governors think Texas is the same.
Danny
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
It’s you who are missing the point, and specifically the context in which we’re playing around with these pics. This is the context.
No-one’s proposing that democratic surrogates mount a full on attack on the Perry campaign based on saying that him having been a fighter pilot makes him like Bush.
You objecting to that is you objecting to a strawman. These pictures are a retort to the picture I linked to, to that nasty little repub whispering campaign they’re working on. Nothing else.
No that’s because you opt to make up your own reality where we’re discussing some grand strategy that we want Obama et al to implement against Perry, and Dave Limbaugh never tweeted a picture that got us pissed. These pictures are a retort to the picture above.
Not responding at all is ipso facto “taking it lying down”.
Do you want to see a response or dont you? If you want to see one, what should it look like? You, and others who object to the various retorts proposed here don’t say. Unless you do, it’s reasonable to assume that you feel that no response is necessary. And that I think can be fairly characterized as proposing that we take (Limbaughs smear) lying down. (Or depending on your POV, as christians.)
(A different issue is whether Obama and dem surrogates should ever attack Perry for being like Bush, and if so – when. My answer is yes, definitely at some point but maybe not necessarily right now. But that doesnt have any bearing at all on whether these pictures we’re making are a useful retort to Limbaugh’s race baiting. I think they absolutely are and since we’re not the Obama campaign or establishment dems I fail to see why we cant make them)
Arclite
Heh, Chris’s version had a better tagline.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Danny:
Whatever.
@Paul in KY
Yeah, almost every Executive office in TX is elected (Gov, Lite Gov, AG, Comptroller, RR Commissioner), so the Gov has no real power over anyone’s future except the Sec. of State. The Gov can’t fire his or her predecessor’s appointees, and appointments are on staggered terms. The Lite Gov has more budgetary authority than the Gov. The Gov does have line-item veto authority, but no pocket veto.
TenguPhule
Really long pitchforks.
Glen Tomkins
@boss bitch: Aside from the occasional troll, I’m assuming that Obama and the Ds don’t have to worry about any of us who comment on this site as voters. But you can’t win an election just by carrying the Balloon Juice demographic even by a lopsided margin. And an incumbent president this far out who’s only doing a point or two better than his potential opponents is in deep trouble with the wider demographics that win elections, no matter what nice things they might have to say about some of his personality traits.
Of course he could still turn it around, he has more than a year to do that. But he’s not going to coast to any sort of victory, because he doesn’t have any laurels to rest on.
Glen Tomkins
@lethargytartare: Where’s the Republican who’s proposed 4 trillion in budget cuts — during a recession?
You’ld have to go back to Hoover…