I know you will attack me for being simplistic, but these people make me want to vomit:
Battered by a weak economy, the nation’s biggest banks are cutting jobs, consolidating businesses and scrambling for new sources of income in anticipation of a fundamentally altered financial landscape requiring leaner operations.
Bank executives and analysts had expected a temporary drop in profits in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. But a deeper jolt did not materialize as trillions of dollars in federal aid helped prop up the banks and revive the industry.
Now, however, as government lifelines fade and a second recession seems increasingly possible, banks are finding growth constrained. They are bracing for a slowdown in lending and trading, with higher fees for consumers as well as lower investment returns amid tighter regulations. Profits and revenues are slipping to the levels of 2004 and 2005, before the housing bubble.
“People heard all these things before, but the reality of seeing the numbers is finally sinking in,” said John Chrin, a former JPMorgan Chase investment banker and executive in residence at Lehigh University’s business school. “It’s hard to imagine big institutions achieving their precrisis profitability levels, and even the community and regional banks are faced with the same problems.”
A new wave of layoffs is emblematic of this shift as nearly every major bank undertakes a cost-cutting initiative, some with names like Project Compass. UBS has announced 3,500 layoffs, 5 percent of its staff, and Citigroup is quietly cutting dozens of traders. Bank of America could cut as many as 10,000 jobs, or 3.5 percent of its work force. ABN Amro, Barclays, Bank of New York Mellon, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, Lloyds, State Street and Wells Fargo have in recent months all announced plans to cut jobs — tens of thousands all told.
Even as they cut payrolls, banks are exploring ways to generate revenue that could translate to higher costs for consumers. Among the possibilities are new fees for automatic deductions from checking accounts that pay utility and cable bills, according to people involved in the discussions.
So basically, while the rest of us have been mired in a deep recession since 2008, the banksters that were the cause of this mess have been shielded from feeling any pain. They were shielded by you and me- we gave them big heaps of cash, the Fed gave them trillions in loans, and the party continued on well into the morning hours, and they kept living the high-life, issuing billions in bonuses and whining about the Kenyan Socialist Muslim in snotty open letters and on the Fox Business Channel. Now, though, they are running out of blow, it’s 8 am, and the dealer is out of what they need. So the cold hard reality of the economic slowdown they created is starting to sink in. Rather than revert to the behavior that banks traditionally engaged in until we decided as a nation that what we should do is turn banking and finance into speculative physics, a high stakes roulette with the best and brightest minds becoming quantitative analysts dreaming up new derivatives and other bullshit, they are going to look to new revenue streams.
And where will those new revenue streams come from? You and me, of course. And in the process, they will kill innovative new things, like automatic bill payment. How many of you are going to keep using automated billpay if the banks are charging you five bucks a pop?
Assholes. “The reality is sinking in…” Reality is 9% unemployment, wrecked retirements, and wrecked lives, you ponces.
cleek
Wall Street is God; let’s get a slushie.
PeakVT
Among the possibilities are new fees for automatic deductions from checking accounts that pay utility and cable bills, according to people involved in the discussions.
Another bait-and-switch. Surprise!
Sloegin
OP is a silly willie. If the banks had to cut their revenue streams or return to a more traditional model, they would have to cut the dividends to their preferred stock holders.
We can’t have that now can we?
James Gary
How many of you are going to keep using automated billpay if the banks are charging you five bucks a pop?
But…but…it’s reeeeeaaaally conveeeeeenient!
Don K
What the fucking fuck! If they really want me to waste their fucking money by writing a check to the various utilities and American Express, I’ll be glad to.
danimal
…and, much like FDR saved American capitalism in the 1930’s yet got nothing but grief from those he saved, Barack Obama gets skewered as the exemplar of Kenyan Socia!ism while pursuing a centrist course and protecting the banks from the mob. Sometimes I wish the Tea Party formed from the left and went after the banks and large financial institutions with rusty pitchforks and tumbrils.
ETA: In a just world, they would not be worried about their bonuses; they would be worried for their lives.
boss bitch
I guess the USPS will be getting some new business then. Credit unions can benefit too. They really should advertise more and remind people that there are alternatives.
artem1s
and when we all go back to writing paper checks, are the million dollar baby CEOs going to handle all the extra labor its going to create? After you fire all the middle managers, admins and secretaries who’s going to fetch coffee for the poor dears? talk about shooting your self in the foot. ponces indeed.
dpCap
It still drives me nuts that the shareholders, (you know, the actual OWNERS of a corporation) receive less in profits than the CEOs and directors.
They’re not only screwing over the people (in a progressive sense) but also their owners (in an Ayn Rand capitalist sense).
How is this an “honest” living?
gumbo
I just hope some of those folks being laid off are ones with the knowledge of fraud and other illegal practices perpetrated by these banks, and will finally spill what they know now that their paychecks don’t depend on their silence.
ChrisWWW
danimal,
Unfortunately, this go-round Obama didn’t save capitalism or even the banking system. He just postponed the demise of the current economic order. The banks haven’t stopped playing their shell game and eventually the people with money left are going to stop buying in.
dpCap
@James Gary:
I dunno. BoA is still trying to convince me to use automated bill pay on my credit card and offering me cash back as an incentive. My guess is they’re not getting rid of it yet.
greylocks
Except they don’t lay off the assholes who caused the problems. They lay off tellers and clerks and customer support reps who had nothing to do with any of the problems, who are low-salaried employees who don’t share in those big executive bonuses, and who have poor employment prospects elsewhere. It’s okay to hate the banksters, JC, but try to muster at least a little compassion for the employees who are going to suffer for the sins of their bosses.
The Republic of Stupidity
And bonus points for the correct and totally appropriate use of the word “ponce” this early in the day…
(I am on the West Coast… so mebbe it’s later elsewhere…)
Bob
There’s the problem, don’t ya know.
matryoshka
Luddite that I am, I still haven’t signed up for automatic anything, so fuck them. The whole system is a money funnel from us to them. I keep wondering what it will take for people to simply stop playing–I mean paying. How bad will it have to get?
attica
I see the perverse delight they take in slapping fees on things that save them money (ATM’s are way cheaper than tellers), but bill-paying does not equate with cash-getting to the average consumer. One’s a convenience for which there is a time-tested workaround, the other is really rather indispensable in a 24-hour economy. Sure, writing checks is more time-consuming than online bill pay, but I can still do it in the middle of the night in my jammies. So I will. I can’t see a teller to get cash except during banking hours, which, for me, is not any hour I have free.
And slapping fees on purchases (to recoup the swipe fees that were so cruelly ripped from their grubby fists) is just going to mean more cash transactions (yay for the retailer) and check transactions (boo for the banks and everybody else on line behind the check writers).
They should all be hoisted up, flayed, and roasted.
Montysano
Somewhat OT, but related to the convenience of online bill paying: one of the unintended consequences of the new immigration law here in Alabama is that, for the moment at least, renewing your car tags online or via USPS is a thing of the past. You’ll have to show up, in person, every year, to prove your citizenship in order to renew.
All of which has, of course, set off a symphony of outrage and butthurt, some of which is certainly coming from those who blindly supported this POS legislation.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
Oh John, don’t you get it? You, like Matt Taibbi, failed to get your doctorate in economics and you both like to say fuck. Both of these disqualify you from ever having a right to say anything about any bank or banker. The proper thing to do is sit back and wait for CNBC to tell you how to feel about this, because you’re just not qualified to be angry, peasant.
I expect an apology to these fine institutions and your readers will be forthcoming. Honestly John, just stop trying to copy Hunter S. Thompson already!
c u n d gulag
Since my unemployed ass can no longer even afford WalMart, I’m going to wait and see if The Dollar Tree doesn’t have a sale on pitchforks and torches after the Labor Day weekend.
Or, is that no longer Labor Day, but High-Finance Day weekend?
Jude
Wait a minute. They’re still making profits and revenues, but at 2004 levels?
THE POOR BABIES.
They were making money hand over fist in 2004. Jesus, I’d love for the economy as a whole to be experiencing conditions similar to that year right now (minus, you know, the fuse being lit on the bomb that would explode the world in a few years).
Derf
What? No DOW charts with sky is falling apocalyptic headlines?
Like this for example.
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/08/04/a-feature-not-a-bug/#comment-2708585
Oops, except I guess that won’t work now will it.
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1314648000000&chddm=1986&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=INDEXDJX:.DJI&ntsp=0
Karmicjay
Bend over Joe, here come the banks!
Roger Moore
@Sloegin:
FTFY. If you think the sociopaths in charge at those banks have the tiniest bit of regard for stockholders, preferred or otherwise, I have a friend in Nigeria who would like to discuss a business deal.
joeyess
Awww….. Looks like the party is over for these over privileged, under officious wankers. Now, the question remains: how do we extract these red, white and blue dildos from our asses?
Karen in GA
@dpCap: I see where you’re coming from, but I’m kind of annoyed that more of that money doesn’t go to us employees, since we actually do the work.
And speaking of, funny enough, I finally decided a few days ago to take the plunge and ditch Wells Fargo for a credit union. Just have to take the ride over on my lunch hour this afternoon. I’m looking forward to it.
singfoom
This is a feature, not a bug. Our entire political system is captured by Campaign Cash. I heartily recommend USAA Bank to all people as a replacement for dealing with the big banks.
It’s no co-op, but I find it less evil that JPMorgan Chase et al. Maybe Buffet gave BOA enough capital to not collapse, but I think we’re seeing a possible collapse of the major banks when the CDO counterparty/ AG investigations / another housing downturn finally hit them.
The banks are still badly leveraged. As Barry Ritholtz at the Big Picture says, we need to go Swedish on them now: The Big PIcture
The problem is that any of these solutions will take congressional action to make it happen. And we know how well that will work out. Depending on Congress to reform itself so that it isn’t captured by campaign interests on wall street is just never going to happen.
So thanks founding Fathers, you did great, greed killed it in the end.
ET
Oh boo hoo for the bankers. Can you hear the tiny violins?
They helped create this “economy” about time they get to experience it like the rest of us.
MattF
I’m about ready to go bank-shopping. When I moved to the DC area in 1980, I started accounts at Union Trust, a Baltimore-based bank. Since then, my accounts have moved through around six different banks, the very latest is Wells Fargo. The only question is whether to wait for them to start charging me unacceptable fees. Haven’t quite decided yet.
Mudge
Banks with physical offices will be reduced. They will gradually move everyone on-line to cut costs and abandon the brick and mortar bank. The physical bank will go the way of bookstores. They will lure everyone on line, lower costs (have all residual physical transactions done at ATMs). Then they will start to charge through the nose.
someguy
I wouldn’t worry about the banksters. We’ve got an attentive President who is on them like a cat on a can opener, looking out for our best interests. They’re not going to get away with anything.
Okay, well, maybe not. Whoops. Um, well… Gee.
Karen in GA
MattF, the first unacceptable fee is $3 a month to use a debit card. That’s coming down the pike pretty soon, from what I understand.
catclub
@attica: “more cash transactions (yay for the retailer) ”
30 years ago my skinflint (but nice to me) grandfather showed me the pseudo-credit card that you flash to the retailer to ask for a 2% discount for cash.
OTOH, am not sure what security expense there is to making very large deposits – it may be close to the 2% that credit cards are charging.
There is also a cost to the custo
And another thing vis a vis credit unions:
Kasasa checking accounts pay 3 – 3.5% interest if you qualify. Look it up!
LGRooney
WOCCU and the Postal Union are behind these decisions. They have wormed their way into the brains of the bankers with some insidious virus that will force bank customers into the arms of non-profits looking out for the betterment of you and me (assuming you aren’t a bankster).
singfoom
@MattF: @Karen in GA: I really heartily recommend USAA. Sure, their only physical location is in Texas, but they charge me no fee to have a debit card, I get reimbursed for ATM fees (up to some amount per month) and I get interest on my checking balance (with interest rates so low, it’s nothing, but it’s there)
Bonus if you have military service in your history or your family history.
catclub
@MattF: Look for the one with Kasasa checking. Probably a crdit union.
gnomedad
So glad we have Derp to tell us what teh markets are doing every fucking day, since the rest of us are living in caves.
Stooleo
Ha, classic turd polishing. More like “project your ass is fired”.
PurpleGirl
@ET: But the executives causing the problem won’t experience it as we do. They’ll fire a bunch of (lower-level) traders, administrative assistants and clerks, and other lower-paid people.
The CEOs and top management will brag about how they saved the bank and still get a performance bonus they don’t deserve. (Serving on each others’ boards means they won’t question the compensation package for concern that their package will be questioned. Same as it’s been for a few decades now.)
Snarki, child of Loki
Don’t get fooled, there isn’t NEARLY enough cash available from the peons to keep the MOTU in hookers and blow.
Rick Perry will roll out his plan to “privatize” the Fed, meaning that the mega-banks will be put in charge of printing the money.
What could possibly go wrong?
gene108
Sigh…the failure of maximizing shareholder value, as a basis for managing a society…
Was life in banking really so bad with the profits they made 6-7 years ago?
Would a bit of a drop in stock prices and executive compensation (since execs get paid mostly through stock options) really be the end of the world?
There’s just a disconnect between what’s good for business and what’s good for everyone else that somehow needs to be bridged.
Bank of America would charge me a “convenience” fee for paying my mortgage on-line. I don’t get the “logic”. It costs less to process an automated on-line transaction than having someone take a piece of mail, open it, and record the received payment.
I can understand needing new revenue streams.
I remember in the 1990’s, before free checking became common, that you needed a savings account with the bank to get unlimited checking or you paid to have your checking account with the bank.
Free checking came about because banks were picking up the revenue in different places.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with having to find new ways to add revenue.
I just think a “convenience fee” for on-line transactions, when they are less labor intensive than the alternative, doesn’t make a lot of sense.
JGabriel
NY Times (via John Cole @ Top):
Sociopaths still don’t recognize that the crisis began with the start of the housing bubble, not its collapse. The 1998-2000 numbers are the pre-crisis profit levels, not the Bush bubble numbers.
.
gex
Wells Fargo wanted to charge me $3 to transfer funds from one account to another. Naturally, I said “fuck that” and will write a check from one account and deposit it into another. They can pay the increased costs of having the physical check processed instead of charging me to save them money by doing it electronically. Same with bill pay. They can start processing my checks the old expensive way if they want to charge me for saving them time and money.
LGRooney
@singfoom: No, way! USAA places are popping up, i.e., retail locations, at least here in the DC area.
catclub
@gene108: “Profits and revenues are slipping to the levels of 2004 and 2005, before the housing bubble.”
No, those were the golden years of the bubble. In 2006 prices peaked. In 2007 all the rats were getting the last bites and by Aug of 2007 the big flaws were showing. Interesting that the article would say that, as if the bubble was not taking place in 2004-2005.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@MattF: We were with Fist National of Maryland, which became Allied Irish, which became M&T, out of Buffalo NY, I think. I don’t have anything bad to say about them, like I would for oh, say, BoA for example.
So if you’re in the DC area and not going to a Credit Union, M&T doesn’t seem too bad.
gene108
@Mudge:
Banks have been doing this for the past 10-15 years. In the 1990’s banks started charging for transactions with tellers, rather than doing a deposit at the ATM.
Different banks are still making charges for deposits not done via direct deposit or at the ATM.
At some level people need to figure out what they want to pay for the services banks provide. Plunking your money into a bank doesn’t automatically mean everything else should be free.
There is a cost associated with having someone pick up a check from the bank, that you deposited with the teller, taking it to a another place, where another person punches in the correct information, so the transaction can be properly processed and sending the canceled check back to the issuer for their records (though this is mostly sent to some place, where it is scanned these days).
High returns on investments off-set some of these costs, in recent years.
The question is what are reasonable fees for using the services banks provide.
Tomjones
Tuned you out at “banksters.” I’m no fan of the big banks, but that is the language of the mushy-headed progressive left.
JGabriel
gene108:
Which is why we should return to using checks instead of automated payments if the banks decide to charge for online transactions.
It is an idiotic decision, guaranteed to increase the banks business costs as people who are watching their own budget in tight recessionary times forego the electronic payments to save a few bucks, and thereby increase transaction costs for the banks.
Completely short-sighted and self-defeating.
.
LGRooney
@JGabriel: Thank you!
MattF
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
M & T would be good– they have a branch across the street from my front door.
srv
FOUR MORE YEARS!
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
I already stopped using it several years ago when my bank started charging a $5/month fee for online transactions.
.
JGabriel
@Tomjones:
So you’d rather be civil than admit that lefties might be correct?
Nice.
.
sukabi
when are we going to stop encouraging them to ‘jump’ and actively start pushing? Because it’s WAAAAAAYYYY past time for that.
MikeBoyScout
I can’t see anyone but a bankster or a fellow traveling crook or idiot who could make such an accusation because it is so damn simple.
We deregulated “banks” and then did a piss poor job of any remaining oversight and they robbed us blind causing a completely predictable global economic disaster. In the aftermath we bailed them out in an unprecedented way, and now they want more.
Obviously the only course of action remaining for us poor slobs is to do the exact GD thing again and hope for a different result.
Corner Stone
@Tomjones: I hope you’re feeling better. Drink plenty of fluids and get some rest.
sukabi
@Tomjones: you’re asking for respect for an enterprise system that’s done nothing to deserve it… and dismissing an argument against that system because it’s ‘uncivil’?
wow… that’s the type of reaction that keeps the current ‘system’ rolling over everyone in it’s path…
Corner Stone
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
Now that’s a bank I want to do business with!
jibeaux
I bank with a credit union for everything, auto, mortgage, etc. Their rates are good and customer service are excellent, and they don’t try to nickel and dime you for everything goddam thing under the sun, they don’t charge fees on their ATMS to anyone, and they don’t bundle up your mortgage and sell it to someone else. They use the $1 a month they charge for checking for their charitable foundation. Since they have credibility with me, I don’t even shop around. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing for me as a consumer, but I think it’s a good way to build business and I’m glad they’re doing it.
Samara Morgan
I would think you should be happier Cole.
We are all finally living in your homie Erik’s Free Market Fantasy Forest.
But sadly, all the valuable timber has already been made into freemarket tables and chairs and there is nothing left to sell.
:)
Citizen Alan
Crap like this is why it pisses me off so much when idiots call Obama a soshulist! I WISH he was a soshulist, because a soshulist would have nationalized these fuckers two years ago, followed quickly by a DOJ investigation into possible malfeasance by banking CEOs and (hopefully) the sight of creeps like Blankfein and Dimon being frogmarched into a paddy wagon.
Karen in GA
@singfoom: Thanks for the recommendation, but I already have a similar account with Charles Schwab. The Schwab account also doesn’t charge currency conversion fees when I travel, which is why I opened it (it’s my play money vacation account).
I just want my paychecks directly deposited into an institution with a local branch, for some reason. A small concession to my inner Luddite, I suppose.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
It’s not just the security cost of making big deposits. You also have to deal with internal security to keep sticky fingered employees from pocketing some of the cash as it passes through their hands. That means extra labor cost counting money and comparing the amount you have to the amount you should have based on your transactions, reconciling differences, watching people who handle large amounts of cash so they don’t run off with it, etc. I don’t know if that adds up to 2% of sales, but it certainly isn’t free. Businesses also tend to like credit card transactions because people tend to spend more that way.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Shorter former JPMorgan Chase investment banker:
Fix’t.
drkrick
@gene108:
They get the use of my money while it’s on deposit. If they can’t get enough of a return to make it worthwhile, they should take the hit – it’s their job to do that kind of money management, not mine.
The problem is that they’ve come to believe they’re entitled to entirely too much of a reward for what they do, screwing over both their shareholders and their customers in the process.
Elie
@boss bitch:
Think of it as saving the US Postal service…Lord knows auto bill paying has sunk them… many postal employees, though unionized, are being pushed into retirement.
We can’t seem to escape the underlying reality that our economy makes winners and losers. Paying online save many of us money, but is going to cost the Postal Service jobs. Back in the 80’s, discount airlines opened up cheap air fares to most US citizens. We destroyed a couple of airlines and the airline unions, but we got cheaper tickets, right? No matter that now we fly in quality that more closely approaches chickens in cages than the almost forgotten past experience of “luxurious” air transportation experience.
Winners/losers. Don’t forget that. We always play that.
rikryah
you aren’t being simple at all.
thank you
Capri
@danimal:
If the Tea Party was coming from the left, it would not have been pimped by Fox News at every opportunity, nor had any presence on the national stage. They would be Code Pink.
gex
@drkrick: Bingo! That’s so old school though. They like new and innovative methods of making money like bending over every American and the entire economy.
Tyro
we decided as a nation that what we should do is turn banking and finance into speculative physics, a high stakes roulette with the best and brightest minds becoming quantitative analysts dreaming up new derivatives and other bullshit
To be perfectly blunt about it, there are few open faculty positions, and when you consider how much more pay you get in finance compared to the sciences and engineering, it becomes way too expensive not to become a quantitative analyst.
As the Unted States evolves into a finance-based plutonomy, and since opportunities for upper level management were hollowed out in the 90s-era downsizing and it’s become more profitable to invest in companies than start them, what the heck are you expecting the nation’s brightest minds to do?
ChrisNBama
No one delivers a better rant than John Cole. Now excuse me, I have to smoke a cigarette.
t jasper parnell
I object to the idea that those in the financial sector are either the best or the brightest. The best, it seems to me, minds would be trying to change economic realities by creating a sustainable and equitable system. The brightest minds would have understood that they were ruining everything or not ruined everything with nincompoopery and general stupidity. It seems to me that the financial sector is filled the most venal, corrupt, and shortsighted minds of this or any generation.
mk387
Like it or not, the financial sector NEEDED to be saved by the gov’t 2008 or we would have fully lost $B in savings and equities similar to the crash in the 1930s.
We can all agree that it sucks that much of the tax payer money went into the pockets of the greedy risk-takers on Wall Street in the form of bonuses, essentially keeping the same crooked system in place.
But at least now that their TARP lifeline is fading away, they will start to see some possible fundamental change, which is a good thing.
John X.
I’ve met way too many idiotic techies, engineers and stat dudes to equate “Good with math” with “best and brightest minds.” There are a lot of technically talented but socially and ethically moronic people in the hard fields.
We need more wise, humane and decent people in positions of responsibility, even if they are not geniuses with the equations. The one thing all these crises have shown is that we’ve given way too much power to the Little Eichmanns in our society.
phil
Don’t worry, here in the great northwest, we’ve got plenty of new banks that have been growing and they can’t wait to compete with the current big boys for you dollars.
Don’t forget your local credit union probably offers Bill Pay and many have joined the CO-OP ATM Network. CO-OP gives you surcharge-free access to 28,000 ATMs nationwide. This includes 9,000 deposit-taking ATMs and 5,500 7-Eleven locations (throughout the U.S. & Canada).
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
the irony is that the quantitative analysts, and the wall st geniuses aren’t asking about what their money making information particle rays are actually making. they don’t stop and wonder if they are making anything. this has been a concern since the 80s, though the voices were drowned out, and long since been too hoarse to shout.
we are a nation where simplicity has created an existential crisis everywhere, but the one place it could do some good. we can only hope the new austerian school of d.c. economics is enough to slay this beast, once it realizes there is no way in hell anyone is coming to save them, if they screw it up again.
we can hope the rest of us can survive watching the wallst cashyno die, before the rest of us can live.
MikeBoyScout
@74 mk387:
Had you premised that our broken financial sector needed to be reformed after it knowingly ruined our economy and that the reform would require lots of money, you’d have been more correct.
The issue is not about the need of a financial sector in our economy, but the purpose of it. Like it or not, a well running financial sector adds little value and therefore requires not much in the way of compensation to those in it.
nellcote
I don’t understand people that bitch about the BigBanks yet keep accounts with them. There are lots of good alternatives that don’t make you part of the problem.
sukabi
@mk387: they only needed to be saved because they f’d everything up with blatantly fraudulent practices / products of their own creation, borne of rapacious greed… with a wink and a nod from our ‘betters’ in congress and the treasury.
so where’s the reform of these practices and the justice for all those bilked?
nellcote
@phil:
Thanks for mentioning this. I’ll bring it up at my credit union.
WaterGirl
I never get tired of seeing that photo. It makes me feel good every time I see it.
I think someone should do a poll, and instead of using words “how concerned are you about…” they should use images. For banking, you could choose between JUMP! You Fuckers! and a couple other images. I would LOVE to see the results of that poll.
LanceThruster
@danimal:
Excellent point. When the Chinese firm that poisoned the pet food came to light, some culprits were given severe penalties (and some committed suicide). There’s no shame or saving face in this culture, it’s seen as a badge of honor to commit grievous offenses and get away with it.
mk3872
@sukabi: The “reform” was part of a bill that passed last year in the form of Dodd-Frank.
The justice part will have to wait, apparently.
Maybe 1000s of Wall Streeters losing their jobs & big bonuses will help with the justice part of it.
WaterGirl
@nellcote: You know what’s really hard? Finding mutual funds that get a decent return, but don’t have the big banks in them.
I would never have a bank or credit card with those banks, but I don’t know what else to do about the mutual fund situation, so they do have some of my money. Which I do not feel good about.
I know if I spent a lot of time researching I could find some better choice, but I get really overwhelmed when I look at that stuff, it’s way too stressful. So I end up thinking “oh, I”ll put my money there for now until I figure out a better choice.
Though I should say I moved all my 401k money (100k) out of mutual funds in March because I thought the market would go to hell between the japan nuclear disaster and the debt ceiling. But I will surely face that problem again when the market stabilizes and I have to figure out what to do again.
TenguPhule
Reality in this case being the nickname for the headman’s axe.
jenniebee
I think it’s cute that the “reality” that is evidently not sinking in is that pre-bubble profits were still profits, and realistically sustainable profits at that, which is a pretty good basis on which to run a business. Unless, of course, you’re a sociopathic hyper-predator, in which case your preferred reality is that Manhattan is actually Fantasy Island and you are its King 4-EVA!
Paul in KY
@Karen in GA: Good on ya. Wells Fargo is a horrible entity. Bank of America too.
Paul in KY
@MattF: You need to get the fuck away from Wells Fargo. To them, you are a rube or a mark.
brendancalling
reality hasn’t sunk in yet. It won’t either, until someone loses their shit, perhaps an elderly man with a sick wife and nowhere to turn except to a truck full of fertilizer and the lobby of BofA.
I’m not endorsing such an act, just saying it is inevitable. people are freaking now, how do you think it’ll go down when the double-dip hits?
TenguPhule
No, too hard to afford.
Its going to be a bank parking lot, an out of work dad, and a lot of guns and/or suicide vest.
gene108
@drkrick:
When have banks ever operated this way? I’m in my late 30’s and have had a bank account for about 20 years now.
I cannot remember a time, when banks gave you a no minimum balance checking account for free, without an accompanying savings account.
Unless we want to go back to a 19th century (or earlier) economy, we need banks.
If the stock market and other investments aren’t enough to maintain profits, the banks go out of business and they take your deposits (above $250,000 thanks to socialism) with them.
I just don’t see the problem in and of itself of banks trying to find new revenue streams.
Every business on the planet is always looking to find new revenue streams, which is why Apple has its own stores, Nike has apparel, and movies have toy lines.
That’s the bigger problem of executive compensation.
The genie got let out of the bottle in the 1980’s and 1990’s, when stock options became a way to compensate CEO’s and not have the compensation hit the books.
How to put the genie back in the bottle? I don’t know.
enplaned
Move your money to a credit union. Seriously. They can do just about anything your bank can do, and aren’t going to rape you with fees.
Ken
@drkrick:
The classic banker’s motto was borrow at one, lend at two, home by three – that is, pay depositors one percent, charge those who borrow from the bank two percent, and live off the spread. In practice the spread was wider, but bankers still made a good living off numbers like 2% return for savings accounts and 5% mortgage rates.
Nowadays they pay 0.1% on savings (or borrow from the Fed at about the same rate) and charge 6% on mortgages and 20% on credit cards, yet somehow can’t make a decent profit. I can’t help but think the profession has gone downhill.
Corner Stone
@TenguPhule:
I’m not suggesting this action is positive or healthy in any way, but I am shocked it hasn’t happened to this point.
phil
@WaterGirl:
Morninstar and the American Association of Individual Investors are both great investing resources. Both charge for full membership, but they are worth it for the small investor.
KXB
I do pay off my accounts online, but not through my banks website. I have log-ins for the different accounts, and I never set it up for an automatic debit. It’s a few extra steps, but I just cannot see myself handing over that much control automatically.
Ruckus
John
You are being way, way too nice to these fuckers. One of my customers works for one of the big banks, as a local business loan officer. The other day we had a discussion about the banks and their plans to fire employees. I mentioned that his bank had somewhere around 20 billion in profit last year and he said I was wrong they didn’t make nearly that much. He was correct, they made about 14 billion. That’s after all those bonuses, payroll, capital expenses, etc, etc. And they are going to fire people and raise fees on everything so they can remain at that level or higher.
I’d say take them out and shoot them but the suffering would not be enough. A guillotine with no blindfold, face up, might do. But just.
Legalize
I do love my online bill pay. But if they make me pay for that shit, then I’m dusting off the check book full of the 500 checks they made me pay for when I opened my account. Of course, nothing on the checks besides my name is still accurate, but that’s not my problem.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
Nigerian business deal. That sounds a lot simpler than selling a public bridge, although the gullibility level necessary for success is probably the same.
sukabi
@mk3872: the ‘reform’ hasn’t been fully implemented, is being watered down so as not to displease the financiers and the agencies tasked with overseeing / enforcing regs are being starved of needed cash / people to do the actual enforcement….
and yes 1000 folks out of work on Wall Street (as long as they don’t sack the janitors / receptionists to ‘clean house’) is far better than 100,000 folks out of work on main street due to Wall Streeters’ greed / fraud…
Karen in GA
@Paul in KY: Thanks. Opened the account on my lunch hour. Just have to do the whole migration thing, then I’m closing Wells Fargo. I am a happy credit union member.
The closest I ever came to BofA was a credit card I had with them for a little while. I think the way it happened was that I had a Fleet card, and then BofA took over Fleet, but really, who can keep track? In any case, I closed the acount soon afterwards. I couldn’t stand the bastards. I mean straight-up in-your-face blatant-lying dishonest.
beergoggles
@enplaned: Is there a credit union that has online scan & deposit for checks?
I’d love to leave BofA, but the fact that I have to deposit over 10 checks per month and can do so on the walk from the train to my office building without actually taking any time out of my workday makes it too good a deal to pass up.
Tomjones
@JGabriel: I was hardly being civil when I ridiculed progressives, now was I?
JerseyJeffersonian
Mr. Cole and other posters with lurid imaginations had best watch out, or you may wind up like this artist in LA.
http://cryptogon.com/?p=24523
Click through on the link to the LA Times for the entire story. Good to know that the Banksters have the Stasi informants lined up to cover their backs. You might also find it informative to click through the link at the bottom of the Cryptogon post for another inspirational story of These Times in the Land of the Free, and the Home of the “Brave”.
WaterGirl
@phil:
Okay, i don’t even know what this means:
How sad is that? Thanks for the tip. I can at least see if either or both of these is available through my 401k. Our only options are through TIAA-Cref and Fidelity.
DontBeStupid
Any of you still banking at a big national bank and not a credit union are idiots. That is all.
Jenny
This is great news for the Post Office. No, really.
Abrxas
You guys will like this.
WaterGirl
@Abrxas:
Catchy refrain. It kind of stays with you.
Montarvillois
Here’s an idea, across the board salary cuts – 10% for the big boys, 5% for the middle, and 0% for the lowest tier.