Has anyone else been following this Dan Choi saga? What is he on trial for, exactly?
I don’t know what the point of trying him is, anyway, if it is for civil disobedience. He just wants attention. Just give him a fine and ignore him would be the smart thing to do. On a somewhat related note, with DADT gone, I was under the impression he wanted to go back in the service. Was I wrong about that, too?
Oh Lord, I can almost guess how this thread will go. I think I’ll just sit back and catch up on some net surfing.
No Fortunate Son
Remember Cindy Sheehan? Yeah.
Grifting with Lady Jane pays better.
John, From the same site..
Choi Turned Down Offer to Dismiss Charges, E-mail Reveals
@lamh32: Yep, I’m getting out of this boat.
I think he’s on trial for the arrest during the DADT protests at the White House last year. Although I think he is becoming more of a hindrance for the LGTB movement. IMHO he is coming off as an attention whore. I can’t go to any LGTB sites without some story about him somewhere…next will be the reality TV show.
From FDL which I will not link to “The government elected to pursue federal charges against Choi and 12 others for chaining themselves to the White House fence on November 15, 2010 to protest Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”
Quote: “He just wants attention.”
That would be my take too. Also, like you, I thought he wanted more than anything to go back into the service. I thought he was an honorable, standup guy. And who knows: maybe he is. But he also seems to have discovered that being aggrieved agrees with him.
He was already out of the army when he came out.
He was in the state national guard and inactive.
I thing people were confused because he kept wearing his active duty uniform and fatigues in public.
He’s on trial for chaining himself to the White House fence a year ago. Why this is still being tried, and why minor legal moves in the trial matter…no idea.
“Twelve other demonstrators arrested with Choi previously accepted deal with prosecutors, agreeing to plead guilty in federal court but serve no jail time if they were not re-arrested within four months. Feldman said his client rejected a similar plea deal prosecutors offered Friday, though he would not have had to plead guilty.”
This trial gives him another 5 – 10 minutes on top of the 15 he was close to exhausting. Absent this, where could he go? Dancing with the Stars?
Yes, as already linked to, I read that Choi was offered a plea deal that was better than all the other people he protested with got. He turned it down and it got sent to trial. Then he gets his lawyer to say he is being persecuted. Nice trick.
Cool, another day, another progressive hero falls victim to the acid tongue of John Cole, the most mysterious and un predictable blogger on the internet. Let the crying game begin.!
He doesn’t want to go back to the army, his arrest in Russia showed that.
@Marc: At this point Choi doesn’t want the charges dismissed. He wants an apology from the Government because anyone who chains oneself to a fence needs an apology.
Ah, my bad. Clearly the Man is Crushing Those Who Speak Truth to Power.
Thoreau, for example, clearly wanted the government to apologize to him for his tax protest.
@General Stuck: The next post will be on Kucinich. I’m starting to feel bad for the firebaggers.
Meh. He’s a drama queen.
Wonder what the firebaggers think of their hero Kucinich. That’s the one that really gives me giggles.
“Was I wrong about that, too”
Rhetorical questions will get you nowhere.
Uh, No. He turned down an offer of deferred prosecution as long as he didn’t get into any more legal trouble. The headline misrepresents the situation.
@Lynn Dee: This seems a bit unfair. First, if you are protesting something, isn’t your goal to get attention? It seems that he’s been quite successful since we no longer have DADT.
Secondly, his defending himself against criminal charges doesn’t seem to obviate his desire to be back in the military. You do realize, don’t you, that these charges were for actions prior to the repeal of DADT?
It’s my understanding that the real story here is that the Interior Dept decided to charge him with fairly significant crimes (possibly felonies, but I’m too lazy to research it), when they have never charged anyone with anything similar, so the prosecution smacks of trying to muzzle his rights of free speech.
Looks like he has found out that being a professional protester is a rather cushy job that gets you a lot of attention for not a lot of work. He’s not the first and he won’t be the last.
wtf is Choi whining about now? I thought dadt was the biggestest most importantest issue ever for him and a matter of life or death or something.
@Marc: IMO and my opinion only, Choi seems to have forgotten the message. The trial is less about the message and more about him.
Al Jazeera has discovered documents in Gaddafi’s office showing Kucinich asking the dictator to provide/manufacture evidence to show the NTC was linked to al-Qaeda.
This is Cheney redux. Cheney manufactured links between Iraq and al-Qaeda and now Kucinich wanted to Libya to manufacture links between the NTC and al-Qaeda.
It’s been a disappointment. I admired him so, when he first came out. I wrote letters on his behalf, I thought he was an excellent serviceman. And then I started to notice that when movement happened he wasn’t happy and there did not seem to be any focus to a return to service. I hope he gets some perspective and comes to a determination about his future.
Plus, I just read about Kucinich. Damn Skippy. Is everyone I supported in the past decade going to disappoint me? WTF, asking Gaddafi to find info so you can advocate on his behalf? What were you thinking? But then, no one ever asks Bernie Sanders about his Gitmo vote, so I doubt he’ll really be asked tough questions on this by anyone. Bringing down Obama may be the first bipartisan project that truly gets both sides together.
Culture of Truth
What to say about this….
When Bush was President, the White House fence sold U.S. Attorney jobs!
@Jenny: The DADT repeal established procedures for discharged service members to apply for reinstatement. So if Choi wanted to go back into the service (which he said he did, repeatedly) he could give it a try.
@Jenny: Any actual proof for that “manufacturing evidence” claim? Or even anyone on the record or off making that claim besides you?
@Derf: Do people really say “fudge packed” past the age of about 12? Acus that’s pretty weird.
Culture of Truth
Doesn’t everyone who chains themselves to the White House fence do it for free speech reasons?
i doubt very much that Choi had any effect at all on the end of DADT.
Odie Hugh Manatee
I’m staying out of this pissing match for now…lol!
OT: Holee sheet! On Hardball today, Mikey Steele just pointed out that “we had a balanced budget in 2001” and that it was Republicans who racked up the national debt, and that ‘this resonates with more people than many in my party want to believe’ than their (Cantor’s) line that ‘the Democrats have almost doubled the national debt since they took control.
Whoa there Mikey! While the truth will set you free, on your side it also ends your career.
Not that you have much of one left. Maybe that’s why…
@Kyle: I accept both of your worthy points. But I still have the sense that he’s discovered being aggrieved a rather agreeable place for him to be. I will be happy to be proved wrong, though.
I imagine that being a defendant in a federal prosecution would be a hindrance to that . . .
Here’s the roll call of the vote: http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00196
Not only did lefty icon who-can-do-no-wrong Bernie Sanders vote against closing GITMO so did…. wait for it… St. Feingold.
He was on an episode of the Kathy Griffin show last year or the year before.
@Jenny: Feingold, paragon of civil liberties? That’s unpossible!
I’m sorry for being slow, but I think I missed the part where who the fuck cares.
@Jenny: No idea what’s true, but Kucinich has denied it. And it’d be more compelling if it was actually a letter/call from Kucinich, not a Libyan official summarizing what he claimed to be Kucinich’s requests.
And going from that to saying Kucinich was asking for fabricated information is pretty despicable. Yes, Kucinich opposed the Libya intervention. And the claim that the rebels are associated with al-Qaeda has been out there for a while. If there was actually evidence of this, wouldn’t it be a worthwhile thing for a Congress member to dig up and publicize?
I don’t care for Kucinich, really — just another media poser like Anthony Weiner. And if harder evidence shows up of a dishonest connection to the Gaddafi regime, I’ll have no hard feelings over it. But I think it is really, really early to accuse him of corruption.
Also, that document seems suspicious to me. Stuff like:
… seems a little too candid to me.
@cleek: I don’t think that’s fair; Choi is one of the most recognized and known advocates for repealing DADT. While he may not personally have signed the bill, he is a major face of the social movement. He might be an attention whore, but he’s advocated relentlessly. Unless you think the politicians would have decided to end DADT without any social pressure whatsoever (which I doubt you do), it seems a bit churlish to claim that a major activist had nothing to do with it.
Choi was protesting the administration/congress/Human Rights Campaign stonewalling (ha!) on DADT.
Its the same stuff you were complaining about on this site, about how the gays should take it easy, things will get done. So Choi and others chained themselves to the white house fence several times in 2010, wanting to get the government off its ass and actually get something done, because they can’t wait till the end of Obama’s second term in 2017, as the HRC wants, because obama might not get a second term, and in 2010 it was clear that the Dems would lose seats/control of congress.
Congress did finally get off its ass after they lost the election, passing it shortly before the GOP took control of the house.
I know the defense wants to call some guy at the interior department who supposedly gave the order to have him arrested.
And to all the clowns above complaining that DADT has been repealed, why doesnt choi drop it, well, yes, it has, the case and the arrest started before that.
Quite frankly, this is the best choi has been in months, and I hope he wins the case.
@MattR: If you look, I proved a link to the original Al Jazeera report. If you don’t want to believe Al Jazeera, fine. I thought most true progressive thought highly of Al Jazeera.
But please, this isn’t the first time he’s did this. Just a 3 months ago, in an interview with the Cleveland Plain Dealer, he blamed the massacres in Syria on the dead protesters.
Let’s remember Kucinich isn’t a liberal. He spent his entire career opposing women’s reproductive rights, only to flip-flop in 2004 when he ran for president. NAARAL and Pro-Choice-America both gave him a zero rating due to his staunch opposition to women’s fundamental rights.
Kucinich might have some wiggle room there. That Welch guy sounds like he was violating that law (I can’t remember the name of it) that prohibits private citizens from conducting diplomacy for the US.
I read the entire link including the actual letter (at least the english translation of it). There is nothing there that says or suggests that Kucinich wanted evidence manufactured.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
You keep fucking with people they will fuck back. They taught him that at West Point.
I’m curious what his side of the story is – because the apparent facts of the offer to drop the charges make him look like a prick.
Certainly, the business about insisting that not only the charges be dropped but also the assistant undersecretary apologize to him personally is histrionic and absurd (after all, if they wanted to drop the charges, they hardly need his permission, and could do so without apologizing to him).
And the business about how he’d have to pledge not to get himself arrested for four months as part of the deal: what’s his objection to that? Is he objecting to that item as being an unfair imposition in principle, or does he have plans for additional illegal protests? If he did have plans for additional illegal protests, why would he find it to be an obstacle that he’d face penalties for both illegal protests? And what illegal protests might he have in mind? Is he out there protesting that DADT isn’t yet dead enough?
Basically, the Drama Queen hypothesis seems to be pretty strong.
Shorter John Boehnor – Up yours, Nigger.
NO. NO. NO.
From the article:
That is most emphatically not the same as “…Kucinich wanted to Libya to manufacture links between the NTC and al-Qaeda”. That is a grotesquely misleading summary of what was actually in the article, and it does not serve anyone’s interest to spread such misinformation. Please be more careful in the future.
Fuck YOU, bigot.
When Thom Hartmann does his national town hall with Bernie on Friday, someone’s got to take him to task re: the Gitmo vote. Don’t make me do it, I suck at getting on radio shows.
Sorry to single you out, but this is ridiculous. Its not a “neat trick” he has a point to make and in some respects he’s clearly right.
Say the cops arrest you for filming the police with your iphone. They take you in, and offer you a plea deal of 6 months probation, but only if everyone else filming the cops that night also agrees to the deal.
THat is the deal Choi got, its coercive, he refused, everyone else took the deal.
Choi heads to trial, everyone else gets their probation.
At the trial, They again offer the deal, choi says no, asks for an apology.
There is nothing wrong with this, the government is at least in part being coercive, and at least partly in thw wrong.
So lets go back to the cops, they unlawfully arrest you for filming, offer probation, you refuse, they offer it again, you refuse and ask for an apology.
At that point the government just wants you to go away so they can avoid a court decision against the cops, and so they can continue illegally arresting people for filming on a public street.
Yeah, neat trick.
And besides, if the supreme court is going to declare that money is speech, chaining yourself to the federal government’s fence in protest against federal government policy and footdragging sure as hell is speech.
Will choi be convicted? maybe, but I hope not. He deserves to win, and right now he’s shoving the government’s nose into the dirt. Good for him.
That doesn’t strike you as a bit… politically incorrect? He’s gay, so it has to be about the butt sex?
1. Dan Choi has, in fact, applied to be reinstated. The request is currently being processed. It was a whole big thing.
2. “Fudge packed”? Dude, you’re supposed to keep that bigotry thinly veiled. Everyone else kept their bigotry thinly veiled. Try harder next time.
3. The very fact that people are still writing shit like that in 2011 is proof that DADT is not the end of history where LGBT issues are concerned, as if we needed reminding. So enough of this “you got what you want, now shut up and go home” attitude, ‘kay?
4. Many here seem to think that there’s no appearance of bias in the government’s prosecution of Mr. Choi. That’s one opinion. The judge has a different one.
Oh thank FSM I was beginning to think it was just me that found Derf’s comment offensive.
I think Dan Choi is a true hero. It fifty-years time, people will remember him, whereas no one will remember who the fuck John Cole is.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Naah… Derf sounds jealous (along with delusional, but that’s a given for him).
Envy, one of the seven deadly sins. How sad.
Aside from this issue there is the issue where the government sent a bill collecting agency after Choi for money they want him to pay because they threw him out of the service for the reprehensible DADT policy.
@Ahasuerus: What turnip truck did you fall off. Kucinich asked civil libertarian Moammar Gadhafi to provide information linking the NTC to al-Qaeda, surely Colonel Gadhafi would never have provided unadulterated documentation.
This reminds me of an old saying. A wise man once said: Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.
True. I forgot about that. I might be prone to some histrionic behavior as well in that position.
WTF did I do now? All I did was ask why the government is prosecuting him, which seems to be pretty stupid. If they in fact really care about marginalizing him and attacking him (which is what the Choi defense is alleging), just ignoring him would make more sense.
Christ, I fucking hate blogging sometime.
@John Cole: That’s okay, I already forgot who you were.
And derf is banned for a week for being a bigoted homophobic scumbag.
The judge asked the prosecution if they wanted to drop the charges, they said no. The government can drop the charges whenever they want. But the government wanted him to agree to probation. He refused, and if he wants back in teh military thats probably a good idea.
He wants the charges dropped and he wants an apology.
Presumably he wants this so that future administration officals in the interior department don’t direct cases into federal court, where he faces stricter punishment, when his previous cases were all held in local dc courts.
Prick yes, semi-principled yes, drama queen, no.
Get over yourself Warren.
By the way, I think DADT actually ends tomorrow, its sometime in september. even then, a republican or other president could reimpose it easily.
@Bondo: Thank you.
The Balloon Juice crowd loves the gay community. They just hate us individually. In most cases where activists get too popular or are in the news too much, they start bashing them. It’s always been that way here. Especially if said gay activist was saying anything bad about Obama.
But they ALL have a gay friend tho!
Thank you. He’s a disgrace to Obots most of the time and that comment had me reeling.
@Michael D.: Commenters do this a lot on this blog. It’s pretty irritating. Instead of saying “The Balloon Juice crowd” and “They” you should find quotes that people have actually said and then actually respond to them.
So what’s he trying to attract attention to now that his goal has been achieved? And, FWIW, I don’t think he was very effective in achieving his goals. I think the end of DADT was mostly a result of changing broader public opinion about homosexuality and was not much affected by the actions of individual activists. IOW, Choi got what he wants, but mostly not by himself.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@John Cole: Thanks.
@Bondo: He wanted to get arrested. That was the whole point. If he simply wanted to picket, he could have easily done that. No, he chained himself and alerted the media to cover the arrest.
You can’t walk into a crowded public theater and scream “FIRE” and then claim first amendment protection.
It is pretty amazing how long it took for someone to call out that comment, isn’t it? Almost as amazing as all the half-assed reasons people in this thread are finding to condemn Mr. Choi.
Like, what’s wrong with wanting a fucking apology, exactly? And what’s wrong with standing on principle and refusing to take a plea deal? And since when have liberals been such fainting violets about protestors harmlessly breaking the law?
Oh, right. Since five minutes after it involved a gay guy. Well then, it’s time to paint him with hurtful stereotypes. His own fault, really. The fucking drama queen.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Michael D.: Yeah. Uh-huh. The BJ community is all str8 or self-hating. Question: Does that include ex-front pagers?
Good for you, but why isn’t just being an obnoxious trolling PITA scumbag enough for the banhammer?
@Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen: lol..
Okay; I’ll bite. I’m baffled by the disdain certain people (ahem!) continue to show for the concept of direct action / civil disobedience. It works, folks. It reshapes the debate. I’ve seen it happen too many times. So what if Choi’s name is in the paper? That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? I cheered when I saw him put his commission, and his actual ass, right on the line.
I think saying that Choi is all about himself is really fucking insulting, and I would urge those who have taken issue with his actions to rethink their position on this. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear before.
I check BJ almost every day, its my favorite political site, and have been ever since this site was the only semi-reasonable Republican blog back before John officially switched to the democrats.
I don’t comment much, but I certainly disagree with John and everybody who thinks that Obama and the rest will get to it eventually, (maybe! if they’re not voted out of office first!) so theres no use raising a fuss.
ETA: At least that one got through.
Now, now, let’s be honest here. The truth is that the reaction you’re seeing re: Choi isn’t about him being gay. It’s about the fact that he chained himself to the White House fence in a deliberate effort to rebuke Obama over something that’s really only important to the Left. That’s easily enough to convict him of wrong-think and declare him un-mutual! Choi’s lucky he hasn’t gotten a face full of rats from General Stuck and the rest of the Ministry of Obama Love functionaries to be found here.
Tell it to the ladies of “Code Pink!”
He was already out of the army. He was on inactive duty in the national guard.
OT…I’m on antenna and still watch the major networks for news. NBC just talked about Infant Mortality and we nosedived. We are now 41st. I’d make a wise-ass comment but this is just appalling.
appalling, depressing, unnecessary…
I always figured that somebody would remember that the sturm and drang of DADT would get quieted down by the veritable army of gay guys working in conservative think tanks, conservative congressional offices, and libertarian house organs. Note, if you will, the total absence of any form of a pivot by gay activisterators to economic, environmental, or good government concerns. Now, I guess we may be on to the next LBGT cause of the moment (emphasis being on the G).
In my defense, I generally stop reading once I see the comment is from d-e-r-f.
ETA: Is that why my comments were disappearing? Once a person gets banned, you can’t say their name?
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
As for the subject at hand: Like it or don’t, Choi is a fucking hero for his actions related to getting DADT yanked. And while hearing he was paling around with Chris Barron caused me not a little gastric distress, he’ll still always be a hero for his actions related to getting DADT yanked.
Couldn’t have said it better.
The democratic party loss the house and how is that working for you. The Supreme Court would be changed for decades under a Perry. I love my country and hate for it to become a theocracy. Sorry if I don’t bitch enough but I didn’t buy into the argument that Gore and Bush were the same so vote for Nader.
Code Pink served a very useful purpose, as did Cindy Sheehan. They provided excellent cover on the left-flank of that particular debate.
And I think Gandhi and King might disagree with your facile statement, @Jenny.
“He was already out of the army. He was on inactive duty in the national guard.”
As in, he still had his commission.
@ ruemara, jenny
people like feingold and sanders voted against it as a protest against all indefinite detention, whether here or in cuba.
that’s completely different from voting against it because you’re scared of people saying you’re “soft on terror” or “jeopardizing national security.”
i would imagine the administration would be thrilled if they had 100 sanderses and feingolds demanding that every gitmo detainee get a proper trial under constitutional law.
Much of this is more reasonable than would be the impression given from the news story I linked. Although I rather doubt he sincerely wants to be muzzled by a return to the military. And the apology demand remains a bit silly: as I pointed out, he has no way to make that demand, because rather than giving him a win and an apology they font need his permission to only give him the win.
Gee, thanks for the advice. I didn’t think my earlier comment was terribly offensive.
This is nonsense, and also is the logical counterpart to the Firebaggers’ insistence that Obama end DADT by (illegal) executive order. The whole point of Obama’s long and drawn-out process of DADT repeal is that the repeal is federal law. A hypothetical Republican successor to Obama is less able to arbitrarily reimpose DADT than Truman’s successor would have been able to resegregate the military – as that change was an executive order, not a federal law (IIRC).
@Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen:
Choi famously said, “Harry Reid is a puzzy, and he’ll be bleeding once a month.” What a heroic statement.
I’m a nincompoop now? Yes, I think he wanted to get arrested, thats why I called him semi-principled. He’s not completely principled, because its not entirely clear that he thinks chaining yourself to the fence should be a crime.
Did the police/administration overreact? Yes, and this guy at the interior department might be a lifesaver.
But at the same time, chaining yourself to the fence is a long, and beloved american tradition. The suffragettes did it, and the police force fed them when they went on a hunger strike.
Guess what, women got the vote. If they sat on their asses it would of taken longer. Doing the right thing, for a noble cause, is always a good thing, and now Choi is sticking it to the government, and that is also a good thing.
Okay, I am trying to figure out what Choi wants an apology for. It can’t be for being arrested. He did break the law and did it knowing he was doing so and would probably be arrested. So does anybody know what he wants an apology for?
@aisce: Horseshit. What excuse do you have for Bernie voting against the Brady bill and for Feingold voting for John Roberts?
Apparently he wants an apology for the decision to prosecute, which his partisans assert was (1) unfair and unequal treatment; and (2) the result of meddling by a political appointee at the Interior.
Re: Dadt, when everybody (Obama, Panetta, Mullen) certified the repeal, it initiated a waiting period, so DADT isnt gone yet, and thats why everybody in this thread saying “dadt is gone, he should get over himself” and “dadt is gone, why isnt he back in the military” is completely and totally WRONG. DADt is still the law, like I said, I think it might actually end tomorrow, september 1st. if not, its soon. Maybe its actually the 21st, I dont remember.
Also, I was surprised at this too, but congress didnt actually repeal dadt, they once again refused to do their jobs (we can’t do it, lets get a supercongress!) so they instead directed the military to begin repeal.
The military, and the next president, could change their minds. Its slightly insane, but I can certainly see Perry or Bachmann doing it, hell, even “moderate” Pawlenty pledged to reinstate dadt.
I called you out for the drama queen comment. Choi is standing up for something at least somewhat principled. Yes, he’s being a dick about it, but he’s also not relinquishing the principle. Go ahead and call everyone who stood up for a principle a drama queen.
Oh Gandhi, you drama queen, just start eating already.
@Jenny: About Kucinich/Quadafi letter: Could be real. Then again, not like there’s been an uninterrupted protection of Quadafi’s offices since he left. Anything could have been planted there, by anyone. Additionally, even if really from Kucinich, who’s to say if he wasn’t working with the CIA to discover if there really were A.Q. ties the revolutionaries had.
One other note: At some point late last year, I think it was, Choi suffered from a very public case of burnout and was subsequently taken to the local VA by another West Point grad. I’m not at all an expert on this, and I don’t want to come off like I am smearing/stereotyping the guy, but that incident probably raised a red flag with those who determine who can get back into the service.
Hmm. I dunno. My impression is very different: when protesters do this kind of thing, ordinary people _hate_ it. They hate Fred Phelps, they hate abortion-clinic theatrics, they hate picket lines, they hate Nazi posters, they hate people blocking streets, they hate giant puppets, they hate any politically- or morally-derived action that inconveniences anyone’s daily life, especially their own. It doesn’t matter if the protest is “right” or “left.” The only recent American exception I can think of is the Wisconsin protests, which IMHO were colored in an interesting way by the Egypt protests.
Gandhi and King used it successfully, but in my view King would never have been successful in the modern media climate. Think of how many Foxified people would watch the police turn firehoses on nonviolent black protesters and cheered the hoses. I’m really not sure “it works.” Maybe it used to.
Here’s another example of direct action working:
This world needs more Paul Watsons. Imagine the change that could be wrought if we were all as committed as he.
that’s not horseshit, that’s what they actually said when they cast that vote.
absolutists are not pragmatists. feingold doesn’t seem to do half measures. maybe that’s why he’s no longer a senator.
but it’s probably why he voted for roberts. a republican was president, republicans had a majority, they put forward a judge who was statutorily qualified, so he confirmed him. it’s the difference between confirming scalia (who was obviously qualified and capable of being on the court) and confirming clarence thomas, even if you completely disagree with how and why they both make decisions.
strict adherence to abstract principles doesn’t always lead to great results. giving roberts 40 years as chief justice is harmful to the cause of justice. voting against the financial reform bill was churlish. he was almost never an asset to his party as an organization in any way. but you can’t say he voted against the gitmo bill for the same reason as some pisspants blue dog.
as for sanders and gun control, i have no idea.
Nobody really remembers Choi now. That’s why he has to keep playing up the drama.
He should be re-handcuffed to the white house fence…during a thunderstorm.
Damn blockquote not working properly on my comment, above..
@Lojasmo, as long as you’re right beside him.
Of course the government can drop the case, But asking for the apology puts pressure on teh government. Maybe this interior department guy did something wrong, maybe not, I dont know. But putting him in lesser jeopardy the other times, then punting him over to federal court in an attempt to get rid of the protests once and for all isnt right.
The goverment losing the case is the best option, the government dropping the charges is okay for choi, but the government could then turn around, and some future evil Cheney-type SOB could be putting all the activists he doesnt like into federal court, and lesser more nuissance activists in local courts.
For a local example of this happening, the “Anonymous” group were staging disruptive protests, over BART cutting off cell service in their tunnel during some previous protests, at stations in downtown San Francisco. They eventually discovered, apparently to their surprise, that commuters weren’t getting mad at BART over the cell phone issue, they were getting mad at the protesters.
Thanks. He had that coming.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
No, no, and no. The man is a known associate of that bony-assed grifter bitch Jane Hamsher, is making President Obama’s administration look bad, and in addition, Dennis Kucinich somehow. We can all agree that these incontestable facts fully justify the endlessly strident balloonbagger attacks he has so studiously earned, as well as the possible loss of his gay card. If he were a real man, or woman, he would defend himself to Jenny on this blog comment thread – and yet he does not. He will most assuredly not be invited to a seat on the center-right cheerleading squad on this day, or any other day.
@aisce: I don’t what’s wrong with you. Feingold voted for Roberts and against Alito. It had nothing to do with strict adherence to blah, blah, blah.
i mean, you can read feingold’s statement to the president on the matter:
that’s a very different rationale for opposing what the administration was trying. the result, voting against the bill, is the same. so you are certainly free to criticize him on the grounds of effectiveness and productivity. but the guy is clearly saying publicly that he will refuse any paradigm where anybody is preventatively detained for any duration, anywhere in the world.
i’m willing to respect that. knowing full well that it’s the true position of the president himself. that’s the difference between being senator and being president.
@John Cole: I can feel my sinuses clearing already.
“This trial gives him another 5 – 10 minutes on top of the 15 he was close to exhausting. Absent this, where could he go? Dancing with the Stars?”
This is the kind of shit a post like this engenders. You publicly accuse him of having no actual feeling for the subject of his activism, just “wanting attention.”
I think it’s disgraceful, John.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Nope. My one gay friend went full metal wingnut and we haven’t talked since.
He’s fucking delusional about Obama.
Sorry. I guess I don’t fit in here any more.
John, I love you, but someone who has a blog on the internet really can’t complain about people wanting attention…
roberts should have been confirmed!
by the same totals that antonin scalia and ruth bader ginsberg were.
that’s the way the system is supposed to work. bush won reelection fairly. the republicans had the majority in both houses. that’s the price of elections. you don’t want the other side to control the judiciary? don’t lose.
once it becomes acceptable to hold judicial nominations hostage, the system breaks down. the senate should be a majoritarian body, not a place where one side simply obstructs the other just because they can. because then you end up with republicans holding up every single goddamn person obama nominates with no recourse.
if you’re not willing to confirm john roberts, then you’re not willing to confirm any modern republican. and while i’d be willing to endorse that notion in the abstract, for the good of the country, i’m pretty sure republicans didn’t just all up and disappear and stop winning elections in the last five minutes, so i imagine it would be tough to put into practice.
One of the ways to counter the reality of “hippie-punching” here is to mock the concept itself – whatever – but it is so deeply embedded in the psyche of so many Americans that – I don’t know. I honestly just don’t know. It’s impossible to not think that the same people who do this would have found revered activists of the past to be unseemly, in a word. But they’d never say it now. History gives them some comfort, they don’t have to be so close to those unseemly people like they do to Choi.
@LT: I don’t care what you think, all I said was “WHY IS THE GOVERNMENT DOING THIS? IF THEY REALLY WANT TO MARGINALIZE HIM, JUST IGNORE HIM.” Here is the sum total of my post, really:
For chrissakes, this is not hard. People who chain themselves to the WH do so because they want attention. Do you deny that? I mean, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE DOING IT.
If the WH, as alleged by the Choi defense, is trying him in an attempt to demonize and marginalize him, THEY ARE GOING ABOUT IT THE WRONG WAY.
Yet somehow, I’ve launched a vicious assault on Choi.
And reading comprehension takes yet another hit.
When people chain themselves to the WH fence, they are doing it for attention. Pointing that out is not a nasty smear.
Unless, of course, you can come up with another reason for chaining yourself to a fence. Maybe to keep oneself from flying away in the hurricane? Fill me in. I am all ears.
@ZenPoseur: I pied that dickhead after his third or fourth comment, so I have no idea what bigoted bullshit he spews out. I suspect a lot of other regulars have done the same.
@Michael D.: Really, Michael D? I thought you were better than serving a weak tea.
Interesting take on Dan Choi from a “gay service vetran”
@John Cole: A week is too short for that tiresome douchebag.
Testing, FYWP. eating my comments again
Choi is demanding an apology because he was arrested for chaining himself to the White House fence? The Secret Service is oddly picky about that, and they arrest everyone who does that.
I’m not minimizing civil disobedience – but part of the point is that you’re willing to face the consequences of your actions. Not demanding apologies for the outrage of getting deliberately arrested.
And Choi moved from “principled hero” to “obnoxious attention whore” over the last year. If he’d stopped where he started, about a year ago, he wouldn’t be drawing the negative attention that you’re seeing here. Being a jerk in public to your allies tends to piss people off.
You’re claiming that is the same as civil disobedience for political protest? Jesus, that’s disgusting.
Whether you agree with Choi’s specific views or the political value of his tactics, political protest with or without civil disobedience is an honorable act.
@lamh32: pass the popcorn. I’ve got cold beer.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Brutal but honest opinion. IMO, activism is fine as long as you stay focused but falls apart when you go overboard and do stuff that has people scratching their heads in wonder. The Choi ‘technique’ seems about as focused as a shotgun blast.
It’s like he’s throwing everything to the wind, hoping something works. In the end it only makes him look unstable and unfocused.
You’re saying now that you saying “he just wants attention” wasn’t an insult? And/or that you don’t know that accusing someone of wanting attention is a very common way to insult somone? Like this person, who was riding off your wave?
Not only that, this:
“The smart thing to do” in what way? I mean how are we not supposed to take that as you side with the government against Choi? (I dont’ think you do, I just think you’re automatic hippie-punching makes you say stupid and offensive shit like this. Like you did with DDay. You end up on the wrong side cuz those activists just fucking infuriate you for reasons you probably don’t even comprehend yourself.
Amen. And made all the more difficult because people on your side of the issue who should fucking know better mock people like Choi instead of giving hima “Good on ya” and supporting him. It is fucking disgraceful
Exactly, if they want to get rid of him, ignore him and drop the charges, they’re not doing that though.
So now, Choi is obviously sticking it to the government, he’s sticking it to the prosecutor, he’s demanding apologies, and some people here are complaining that he’s being mean to the people that arrested him.
He’s doing what he should be doing. If he’s convicted it will be bad, but at this point he’s doing good.
“And Choi moved from “principled hero” to “obnoxious attention whore” over the last year.”
@aisce: Why did St. Russ personally go to the White House and ask Obama to delay the vote on rescinding the Bush tax cuts until after the election if he’s such a brave man of principle?
” ‘Choi famously said, ‘Harry Reid is a puzzy, and he’ll be bleeding once a month.” What a heroic statement.”
For heaven’s sake. What is your point? Malcolm X publicly celebrated John F. Kennedy’s murder before softening late in his life. Martin Luther King, Jr. cheated on his wife. Robert Byrd was a goddam Klansman before he was honored by this very President.
There are real threats to the equality of women out there (including a couple of Supreme Court justices that your hero Harry Reid could’ve, ya know, filibustered, and yeah, I know Reid’s effort would’ve been thwarted, but I’m not going to pretend a guy who’s done little more for women than vote the right way is suddenly a helpless victim of misogyny); a single pissed-off serviceperson is not one of them. Heck, I know female soldiers who’ve dealt with foul-talking men in their units by answering with even bigger potty mouths.
I don’t like the language, and I believe that, if it’s picked up by a mob, it can play a role in creating the sexual assault crisis we saw, for example, at our service academies. Choi should’ve known he wasn’t in the dirt cussing it up with his old Army colleagues, some of whom, undoubtedly, were women. If you want to use Choi’s remark to argue the guy shouldn’t be some saint of the lefty activists, fine. I actually agree with that. There are many very smart, very talented, and very public GLBTQ folks, like his fellow West Point grad Anthony Woods, Choi could bring on for his stints in the public eye, but, selfishly, he does not share the spotlight. What I won’t do is use Choi’s immaturity to write off his activism or concede that a dirty mouth makes him complicit in the marginalization and assault of women.
@LT: When John wrote that Choi wants attention, he meant that he wanted attention at the protests, etc… I dont take it as meaning “he just wants attention at the trial”.
If the government wants him marginalized, they should have ignored him, not prosecute him, and not bump him up to the federal court where he faces stiffer punishment than he did previously.
Did you even read the god damned article I linked before you came in here all worked up:
Choi and company are claiming the government is going out of their way to prosecute him more harshly. I said that from the government’s standpoint this is stupid, because if they really want to marginalize him, just fine him and ignore him. Don’t try him and make him a martyr, because all he wants is this attention. Here it is again for you:
I’m even going so far as to assuming the Choi team is correct, and the government is being vindictive- the title of the god damned post is “WHAT’S THE POINT OF THIS?” Pretty clearly I think the government is being stupid.
And then in comes LT- “HOW DARE YOU WRITE A POST ALLOWING PEOPLE TO ATTACK CHOI! HOW DARE YOU SMEAR HIM AS AN ATTENTION SEEKER! DISGRACEFUL!”
There are times when what I write is unclear, as we all know, but this ain’t one of them.
Cool, LT is here to bore the bejeebers out of us with poutrage. Some days can’t help but to seem normal.
You might want to keep in mind that many of us, including me, skip over the posts of trolls without reading them at all. If you haven’t read the comment, it’s pretty hard to call someone out.
Edit: I see Mark S. beat me to it.
@Bondo: Along with the jibe about he thought Choi wanted to go back into the service you really think that?
I almost commented that it ws time for Stuck to come out and defend Cole.
Reading comp trouble again LT? I was mocking you, and fully agree that Cole is pure diabolical evil. Ernst Blofeld grade evil, Ming the Merciless has nothing on John Cole. But that does not change the fact you are a fulminating idiot.
Now get back out there Tiger, and show em how it’s done.
edit – and don’t ferget your strawmen
@John Cole: Even if I granted you all that – and it’s difficult to – what was this about:
I guess you’re going to say that that wasn’t an underhanded insult. Whatever. I guess I’d have to take your word from it. But along with everything else on this, it is hard to.
Also: DADT is not gone. It’s gone Sept. 20. I have no idea how that applies to Choi, but I do know that when DADT was found unconstitutional he tried to resign. I don’t know what has happened since, but his trial might have something to do with it. I have no reason to question his motives on that.
Werd. “We’re down with the gay activists, so long as they don’t insist on anything beyond our rigorously-parsed statements of being down with the gay activists!”
Serious question: If some number of current front-pagers, say ferinstance one, posts some number of “COME BACK MICHAEL D” laments, would there be any chance of it working? Because I, at least, miss reading you here.
Re-sign, not resign.
@LT: I know this may come as a shock, but since every time I have ever seen Lt. Dan Choi, he was in uniform, I was under the impression he was kicked out because of DADT. I did not know until today that he was out of the army before he started protesting against DADT. It wasn’t an underhanded attack, it was a question. I thought he had been booted out and wanted back in.
I apologize for not immersing myself in all things Dan Choi and not knowing these things, but I will from here on out tread very lightly so as to not upset your delicate feelings and obvious adoration for the man.
@JPL: Yes, the Democrats lost the house, how is that my fault?
You listen to blue dog clowns like ex-senator whatshisface from idiana it was all the democrats fault for passing health care. He also blamed the gays, but Democrats didnt get their act together on that until after they already lost the election. At that point they decided, crap, we better do something and rushed out the dadt repeal around the time of the christmas break. by late January, the new republican majority took the house.
And If you remember the blue dogs like the aforementioned clown from indiana were bitching that progressive issues were in the news in the months before the election.
Thats ONLY because the blue dogs DElAYED taking up those issues for so long. If you get them out of the way quickly, they don’t consume the media attention. The Blue dogs are clowns, don’t blame the progressive minded ones.
What? He WAS kicked out because of DADT. And he did want back in.
Edit: Is the confusion because he was in the Army, then the Guard?
Reading comp trouble again LT? I was mocking you, and fully agree that Cole is pure diabolical evil. Ernst Blofeld grade evil, Ming the Merciless has nothing on John Cole. But that does not change the fact you are a fulminating idiot.
Now get back out there Tiger, and show em how it’s done.
WP, damnit, eating my posts. try again
Oh fuck it. WP has got my number tonight.
@John Cole: yes, but even if he wanted back in, he couldnt, but I figure you know that since you were in the military. The law has been repealed as far as the media is concerned, but as a matter of law, its still in effect :-)
Some other servicemen kicked out have reapplied, and were denied, because the law is still in effect.
been there, done that. Had some life experiences and grew the fuck up. Choi needs to do the same.
If I wasn’t born a genetic lefty and a compassionate spiritual humanist, I’d read through this thread of emo WATB butt hurt and want to do anything and everything that pissed off liberals too, also. ZOMG fee fees!
Fuck you, @Lojasmo. How about that you sanctimonious asshole?
@General Stuck: How goes the stone?
No change, quiet for now.
@General Stuck: Well, much like the histrionic nonsense of this thread, it will pass.
Sorry. I would’ve hated myself if I’d let such an easy one sail by.
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Rachel Maddow made Dan Choi famous after she interviewed him about his discharge from the army, but she didn’t interview him after the repeal of DADT. She interviewed other service members including Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, Former Cadet Katherine Miller, Former. Air Force Comm. Officer Mike Almy & Former. US Army Captain Jonathan Hopkins ( a dreamboat). I think Rachel wanted to stay as far away from Dan Choi as possible, when he revealed himself to be a complete loose cannon (calling President Obama “the worst president ever”, and Harry Reid a pu**y who if he were a women would bleed once a month, or some shit like that)
@Anya: Funny thing with activists is they always turn out to be human, so it’s always easy to find some faults to diss them about and thereby the work they’re trying to do. The unfortunate part about that is that people who agree with the issue take part in the dissing, and, I think, do varying amounts of harm to the cause as well.
because he’s still a politician. specifically, a democratic politician who didn’t want to have to go on record voting in favor of a tax hike a month before his reelection. once again, a very simple explanation. these have all been very simple explanations. politics really aren’t that complicated.
i don’t know why you seem to hate him. i assume because a stranger on the internet once said they’d rather have him as president than obama, and so now you must hate feingold forever.
i tend to find him rather sanctimonious and unproductive sometimes, myself. but that doesn’t change the fact that he clearly went on the record opposing any and all indefinite preventative detention and has voted accordingly. if it were actually possible to close the gitmo facility but maintain its detention policies here stateside, and he was the last vote necessary to make it happen, i couldn’t say what he’d do. but he has the luxury of being an absolutist on the subject. like i said, there’s a difference between being senator and being president.
you will clearly refuse to understand what i’m saying once again, and find another new goalpost to shift towards. i look forward to hearing about the time he totally cheated on his third grade math test by looking at his neighbor’s paper…
Count me as a queer activist who finds Choi tiresome. From disgracing his uniform to being best pals with right-winger butt-kissers, the misogyny someone else cited was just icing on the cake.
The fact he’s self-aggrandizing and whining while talking about something worthy is what really annoys me. No comparison is possible to Gandhi here. For one, the stakes aren’t as high. For another, Gandhi was FAR more intelligent about how he handled himself in the public eye.
@LT: All the people I’ve listed above showed an exemplary behavior throughout this trying time ( if you discount Cadet Katherine Miller and her nonsense date with Lady Gaga) but your heart does not bleed for them because they’re not attention seekers who display strange behavior or conduct themselves in a way unbecoming an officer. Dan Choi spoke for the right cause but he was the wrong spokes person for it. Also, too, he did hang out with bigots and birthers.
I find it rich, the lecturing about civil disobedience
Odie Hugh Manatee
I watch TRMS every night and remember those interviews. I never noticed the drop-off in Choi’s appearances but you are right, she has kept coverage of him to a minimum.
As I said, advocacy is an honorable pursuit, as is civil disobedience when necessary. That necessity must be tempered with a solid approach that increases your chances of making an impact.
Throwing glitter, grandstanding for the sake of grandstanding and attacking those who support you are some of the things that are turn-offs to those the advocates are trying to reach. Just because someone is an advocate, that doesn’t automatically them right about everything/anything they say or do. This seems to be an important point that has been lost among many of the advocates on the left.
As with everything else in life, there’s a right way and a wrong way. Advocates will never be right all of the time so they need get over themselves already. The problem with that is that too many advocates are incapable of listening to anything but the hive-mind they have become a part of.
That’s why any time a beloved advocate is ‘attacked’, the supporters swarm. They aren’t interested in opinion, they just want to shut down anything they view as criticism.
@LT: Snicker, snicker.
@gwangung: “I find it rich, the lecturing about civil disobedience”
Who are you talking to here, Gwang?
I note that this is a discussion of tactics, not strategy. We all want the same thing in the end.
Therefore it seems a bit of over reaction to put too much energy into this. Feeling betrayed seems to me to be wasting energy that can be used better elsewhere (which I think you agree with).
@Anya: “All the people I’ve listed above showed an exemplary behavior”
You don’t get to make everybody’s call on what is proper behavior.
Yeah, John’s got a hangup and he can’t stop writing about it.
I was on the same side of the original issue as Choi, but I don’t know anything about him, and I don’t seek out stories about him, either. I consequently haven’t seen his name in a while, until this post.
@LT: Whatever dude!
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Isn’t there a difference between looking for attention for personal reasons and attempting to draw attention to a cause?
To me, “looking for attention” implies the former and implies immaturity or pettiness. Not so for the latter, which implies honorable political speech.
Also, you can read a transcript of what the judge actually said here: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/08/31/transcript-of-dan-choi-trial-day-3-doj-files-writ-of-mandamus-against-judge-facciola/
Be sure not to miss the part about Bermuda onions. Really.
@aisce: Sanders has never been a proponent of gun control. He was first elected to congress in the 1990s with NRA support.r
Most people are surprised to find that Vermont has some of the most lax gun laws in the country.
joe in oklahoma
@JPL: but what was in the offer? the details just might be important. it appears on the face of it that the Administration is being vindictive. perhaps not, but it would be nice to have more information before somebody dismisses this as insignificant.
Am I the only one wondering if maybe LT = Dan Choi ?
@WaterGirl: “Am I the only one wondering if maybe LT = Dan Choi ?”
You have not only found me out, you have developed a new, 100%-guaranteed tactic to win every debate you ever have with strangers on the internet.
Why didn’t anyone else think of that before?
Larime the Gimp
I love how all of his defenders are conveniently and pointedly ignoring your quote from an active duty gay servicemen talking about how the soldiers on the inside feel about him. It really says a lot.
@Larime the Gimp:
What horseshit. You want quotes from service members who support him, I’ll get them. That’s just fucking weak.
@Roger Moore: Nonetheless, he has sacrificed a great deal and exposed himself to criminal charges for what he believes. And for all that, he is rewarded with all these churlish comments from those on the left who are comfortably ensconced in their homes calling him a drama queen. No one will be able to parse out what finally pushed the repeal of DADT over the line, but he certainly gave it his all, and for that he deserves respect at the very least. But go ahead, the left is used to eating its own.
The judge states: “No, our position at this point in time is that the issue of selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution should be considered pretrial in a separate hearing and should be resolved after discovery is turned over. And if it is found that we selectively prosecuted the case, then it should be dismissed.”
If the court finds that the government is selectively prosecuting they just want it to go away.
Choi protested in March and April and was treated both times the same way Darryl Hannah will be treated after being arrested for sitting in the same spot protesting the Keystone pipeline this week.. It has been discovered that the government decided “before the last protest” that Choi would be prosecuted in this extraordinary manner.
Choi went to enlist when the first breakthrough of ending DADT came through. He was denied and told to “wait” as was every other gay person who was out and proud at the time.. Sure he has said some stupid shit. But doesnt everyone?
I really support his radical stance. Someone has to wave the bloody shirt in order for things to change. Especially now, when the media all but ignores any even slightly left wing protests.
After all, the media ignored 15 Million people protesting the start of the Iraq war (I marched in Paris); and they covered in depth every single Teabagger fart after the Obama election.
Gozer: if you spent time in Vermont you would know why they have lax gun laws and why Bernie is supporting his constituents in this matter. Almost everyone is a hunter. They all teach their children GUN SAFETY. They all know how to handle guns, how to clean them, how to store them and when they are and are not appropriate.
Guns are NOT a problem in Vermont. They have a very good gun culture because it is attached to hunting and family life. Most poor and middle class families stock their freezers with wild game to supplement their income and eat very well.
Unlike Arizona, which does not have this culture. The rednecks here are fuckin’ dangerous. Arizona should have stronger gun laws and require gun safety classes because these people do not have a clue.
And it is a border state. So much of the lax gun laws here have to do with the gun makers wanting to make big bucks selling to the cartels, and the media feeds the NRA bullshit 24/7/365. There is a huge difference.
I live in both states and I only wish Vermont had Arizona weather. It would be the perfect state.
The other thing to say about Choi: the government realized they made a HUGE mistake by prosecuting him in this way and tried to get out of it with some cheap deal. I do not blame him one bit for forcing them to go through with their original plan.
It shows the government up and makes them look like fools for planning this and then trying to weasle out of the prosecution at the last minute before the trial. Maybe they will think twice before they prosecute someone like this again, because it was extralegal and wrong and vindictive.
I guess I’d be more sympathetic and more likely to believe the sincerity of people like Choi, Hamsher, Hannah etc. who are getting themselves arrested now, if they had been willing to get arrested during the Bush administration. I’d wager a bet that if we have a President Romney or Perry in a couple of years, they’ll not be bothering with civil disobedience.
The Tim Channel
Choi is a national hero. End of story.
As to the repeal of DADT? Is it really safe to be gay in the service now or aren’t they still dragging their feet?
It’s disgusting to see so many people here attacking the guy. I can’t help but conclude that these comment threads are now attracting large amounts of paid rightwing shills.
If all his naysayers had half as much moxie as Choi, I doubt the country would be in as bad a shape as it is.
@shano: Easy hoss. I am well aware of Vermont’s outdoorsyness (the Missus and I consider it our favorite vacation spot) and wasn’t knocking the state’s gun culture. I am also well acquainted with gun toting hooligans who have no respect for weaponry or safety…I grew up in Louisiana and Kansas.
EDIT: I should also add that I have no problem with gun ownership, but have major problems with the NRA.
I don’t visit FDL regularly so I am not always up-to-date with Choi’s antiques, but it’s remarkable how everything he does and everything that I find out about him confirms my negative opinion about him. So it turns out that his military career was already over before his DADT activism and he only turned activist once the DADT repeal actually became a realistic possibility, how weird is that? Also, he wanted to go to CPAC, would rather support a republican president than Obama, has got this alliance with Jane Hamsher who is only in it to squeeze out more money from the gay community, and he likes to perform vanity acts with the only intent of keeping his name in the news. The government offered him a deal twice and he rejected them both. He went to Russia and got arrested as well, why? Did he want Obama to meddle with russian internal matters? I think he did it to sabotage his own re-enlistment process. He is insulting and chauvinistic and he uses his uniform as a prop. Also, thanks Anya, for that insightful comment.
The defendant raised the issue of selective prosecution in his own testimony on the third day of trial. Had the defendant raised that issue prior to trial, there would have been a pre-trial hearing on it, because if the defendant prevails, the state has to dismiss the case.
Here’s the judge explaining the timing. He’s talking about the fact that this is a “bench trial” (no jury, judge is fact-finder)
They’re all scrambling to deal with it. When to hear it, whether it can be raised as a defense, etc. It’s no more complicated than that.
So, to answer your question, the government would have gone ahead with the trial and the “fine” (if that’s the penalty), but the defendant raised an issue in testimony that the judge believes should be dealt with. The judge says he wants a “complete record” and that’s as good a reason as any to deal with it.
That’s my reading of the transcript. I think people may be taking more meaning from this than is in the transcript.
Shorter answer is, they’re trying him because he didn’t plead. On the third day of the trial he raised an issue that the judge wants to hear him on. The judge didn’t hear him on the selective prosecution issue prior to trial because he didn’t raise it. So, now he’ll be heard on that issue. All they’re arguing over is how he’ll be heard, because they didn’t know they had this issue until he raised it.
So fucking tired of John’s smug sneering at anyone whose activism he doesn’t approve of. I don’t always agree with Dan Choi but I think that back in November 2010 — when DADT had NOT yet been repealed, please note — chaining himself to the WH fence was an admirable act of civil disobedience. Certainly more than I did to try to protest the injustice, and lord knows it’s not anything John would ever do. Much easier to sit on your ass and fling poo, isn’t it?
@Gozer: People are always so baffled when one of their heroes has a position they disagree with. Who knew, individuals have their own opinions and aren’t reading your mind! Bernie’s position on guns has been pretty consistent from day one.
Amen. Where was Dan Choi when the gay community was in the streets of Albany, fighting for marriage equality? Nowhere to be found. He’s become the LGBT Sarah Palin – an irrelevant grifter who’s looking to keep that 15 minutes going for as long as possible.
That’s not true. You have no idea what your’e talking about. But you are so sure, and so grand about yourself.
IN a garden like this post, that’s the kind of flowers you expect.