Apparently, President Obama is the Rodney Dangerfield of presidents.
Fresh off the heels of John Boehner’s unprecedented refusal to grant President Obama’s request for a joint session, here comes Joe Walsh to demonstrate how little respect President Obama gets:
Walsh, a tea party-backed freshman from McHenry, issued a statement today saying he’ll be in Illinois on the night of the speech to host a small-business forum. A Walsh aide said he expected details of the forum to be known Friday morning.
Talking about avoiding Obama’s address, Walsh said in his statement: “I don’t see the point of being a prop for another of the president’s speeches asking for more failed stimulus spending and more subsidies for his pet projects.”
He added: “The president needs to stop the speeches, get out of his office and away from all the White House academics and start talking to real people out there. They’re the ones who are going to create the jobs, not White House paper-pushers and bureaucrats.”
Joe Walsh is acting like a petulant child. Who does he think he is? If the President addresses Congress, and you are a member of Congress, you suck it up and you go. It’s really that simple. Could you imagine the outcry from the right if a Democrat up and decided he or she just didn’t feel like attending a Bush address?
It’s utterly ridiculous.
But hey — look on the bright side:
It’s one fewer person who might be inclined to yell “You lie!” à la Joe Wilson while the President is speaking.
Go ahead and add showing the President of the United States the respect he deserves to the list of Shit Joe Walsh Won’t Do — along with paying more than 100K in child support owed to his ex-wife.
(In case you missed it, here’s Lawrence O’Donnell’s epic takedown of Deadbeat Daddy Walsh last month:)
Joe Walsh is a classy guy.
(H/T That Guy With The Ponytail!)
[cross-posted at ABLC]
AlphaLiberal
Guy’s a real piece of work. Makes you wonder about McHenry.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@AlphaLiberal:
Fix’t.
These fuckers are taking disrespect to a whole new level and in our form of government, that could lead to catastrophic results.
They truly want to destroy our government, all because of their ideology and the burning hate of one man.
And they call themselves patriots. No, they are seditious bastards.
AlphaLiberal
They are more and more the enemy within, tearing down our government and replacing it with a corporate feudal state.
Arclite
I dunno, seems totally in character for Mr. Walsh: Skip out of your kid’s lives, skip out of the president’s speech.
For the Repubs, it’s all about me, me, me, me, and me.
Anya
Joe Walsh is such a nothing. He doesn’t deserve any attention. He’s a loathsome fucker who shouldn’t be in polite company.
ruemara
I don’t get why no one will call this what it is. And I’m sick to death of the beat up on Obama too crowd. WTF, he has to bully people into basic respect? Man, these are ridiculous people.
Yutsano
@ruemara:
Yup. A lot of progressives really wanted their own Dubya. That’s a big part of the emo freakout.
MTmofo
Looking at Joe Walsh reminds me of looking at the character who played the PI in Trading Places. The guy with the orange futures report.
sb
@Yutsano:
Monkey Business
Based on Congressman Walsh’s statement, I can only assume that the reason that he refuses to add to the debt of his children is that he’s that he already owes them a ton of money and if he adds anything else to it his kids are going to hire a guy to break his kneecaps.
On a related note, when did it become part of our political culture for elected officials to openly disrespect the President?
There’s always been partisan sniping and whatnot, but surely there must have been a point in relatively recent history where one party threw decorum out the window and basically said “Fuck this guy.”
I’m not saying that it’s not the Democrats. God only knows that we heaped plenty of scorn on George W Bush, and a lot of it was probably uncivil.
But the level of vitriol being leveled at the President by the GOP is unprecedented, at least in my lifetime. I remember Clinton getting some scorn, but nothing like this.
It’s ironic that when people lament the lack of civility in our political process, they’re usually the people that vote guys like Joe Walsh into office.
Yutsano
@Monkey Business:
When the President became near.
Batocchio
Good riddance.
So, will Fox News interview him before the speech, after, or both?
(Hell, maybe they’ll go for during.)
Gwiwer
Things have gotten so absurd. These idiots whined incessantly that Obama isn’t DOING anything while Congress was on break and, from what I understand, even used sleazy procedural technicalities that prevented him from doing things like recess appointments to try and get something done while they weren’t around. Then, they’re scheduled to come back to work so the White House says, “Hey! Great! You’re finally going to be back in session. Let’s try and start getting stuff done immediately.” Now they’re whining that Obama is a big meanie for trying to force them into doing stuff when they don’t feel like it.
I’m pretty thoroughly convinced this country is doomed.
James E. Powell
Why no Democratic hue & cry? This goes back to “you lie!” The Republicans disrespect the president because their supporters love it and because no one does anything to punish them for it.
niknik
@MTmofo: You mean the principal from the Breakfast Club?
I’m always reminded of the lawyer Barry from Arrested Development.
Yutsano
@James E. Powell: And risk being labeled uncivil and partisan?
Comrade Kevin
@niknik: Don’t mess with the bull, young man, you’ll get the horns.
dogwood
@ruemara:
What don’t you get? I’m a 58 year old white woman and it’s plain to me. Progress in this country is a slow and painful process. In my lifetime I’ve seen doors open up to minorities and women and the first to walk through those doors always faces this crap. President Obama knows he became president of the Harvard Law Review, because decades before him African Americans entered the Harvard Law School and were treated differently than their white classmates. They put up with the resentment and disrespect because they had larger goals to fulfill. Now he’s the pioneer and future women and minorities who occupy the oval office will owe him a debt. Policy and politics aside, it must be acknowledged that the President has handled this nonsense with grace and dignity.
Arclite
@Yutsano:
Dude, C’mon. Give me a freakin’ break. Two things:
1. We want Obama to honor his campaign promises.
2. We don’t want Obama to keep the worst excesses of the Bush administration in place.
We just want a leader, someone who will at least make the pretense of fighting for progressive values. Obama likes to give away the farm before the game has even begun, like with drug negotiations or the public option. At least give us something to cheer about.
The problem with “leading from behind” is that Fox news is pushing the consensus to the right with no counterbalance. Obama has the opportunity to counteract that through public disputes by standing on principle and not compromising right away. But he almost never does.
SRW1
Endicott: Gillespie?
Gillespie: Yeah.
Endicott: You saw it.
Gillespie: I saw it.
Endicott: Well, what are you gonna do about it?
Gillespie: I don’t know.
Eric Endicott: I’ll remember that.
Endicott (to Tibbs): There was a time when I could’ve had you shot.
BlizzardOfOz
Like omg the opposition party is opposing? This is truly unprecedented. I’m sure the jobs speech will be “historic” as you’ll be happy to tell us afterwards, along with regurgitating D talking point like a good (unpaid) shill.
ABL
@BlizzardOfOz: feel that? that’s the point going right over your head.
Emerald
Limbaugh, yesterday, said that Boehner needed to deny Obama’s request for speaking time in order to “put him in his place.”
Any further questions?
Arclite
@ABL: Dude, it’s 1:30 AM in L.A. No work tomorrow? =P
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Arclite: I’m off today and I still woke up at 4:30!
Bruuuuce
One quick question, Mr. Walsh: Exactly how many jobs bills have you and your party even proposed, much less passed? Hint: The number is also called the additive identity.
Please go home, retire, and let the adults put the country you and your have ruined, back together, and not in the 17th Century the way you want.
A Mom Anon
I suppose the good news is that this assclown can be voted out of office fairly soon.
I’ll never understand the concept of voting for people who loudly proclaim they hate the government to then go collect a paycheck from that same government. Would you hire a babysitter that told you they hated kids? A doctor who loathes the practice of medicine and patients? And isn’t the government really supposed to be US? You and me? Aren’t they really proclaiming then that they hate US?
I can hardly wait to hear the GOP’s big jobby job job plan,I’m sure it’ll be just the thing we need. I really hate these people,jesus.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Arclite:
Problem for you is that Obama did not campaign as a progressive, did he? No he didn’t, yet so many manic progressives think that he did and claim that all of his failures stem from his having lied about being a progressive. It never happened, get over it. He is who he is and that is it. Nobody will ever be the president you dreamed of.
Nobody. It’s a pipe dream. Get back to reality, it needs you.
Calouste
@A Mom Anon:
Tax cuts and less regulation. Did I mention tax cuts?
pika
@Odie Hugh Manatee: This.
WyldPirate
You Obama cultists are a bunch of butthurt cultists.
The last 48 hours since Obama rolled over like a bitch has seen nothing but a bunch of sniveling on here about how all of the “emo progressives” and “profeessional leftists” are attacking the President. How Obama wasn’t at fault and it was a “staff blunder”. Hit you Obama cultists here on BJ; ya’ll are the “true supporters” of Obama and not like the rest of the left. YOUR president is perfect–he’s President Immaculate Perfection and do no wrong.
Bullshit. This NYT Op-Ed
The contemptuous reaction from the House speaker, John Boehner, to the president’s request to address a joint session next Wednesday — the day Congress returns from its summer recess — was appalling. No matter how he feels about Mr. Obama personally or politically, there can be no excuse for his lack of respect for the office, to which he is second in the line of succession.
Are the Rethugs a bunch of goddamned obstructions ass-clowns who are putting politics before the rest of the country? Yes, you’re goddamned skippy they are, but that is not what is pissing off many of Obama’s supporters. What is pissing them off is Obama’s seeming lack of spine and his unwillingness to lower the boom on the Rethug assholes.
The Pew poll last week showed that the electorate wants to see Obama stand up to the Rethugs, confront them and not compromise and capitulate to their lunacy that it is destroying the country. They want someone to fight for them and not roll over like a bitch and bare his throat to these animals in the Rethuglican party.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@WyldPirate: Aw dawg, what kinda rant is this for 6 fuking am?
SRW1
@Emerald:
Alright, here’s the reworked version:
Limbaugh: John?
Boehner: Yeah.
Limbaugh: You saw it.
Boehner: I saw it.
Limbaugh: Well, what are you gonna do about it?
Boehner: I don’t know.
Limbaugh: I’ll remember that.
Limbaugh (Obama): There was a time when I could’ve had you shot.
sherifffruitfly
Doesn’t count if you’re a BLACK President, plain and simple.
WyldPirate
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
I got up on the wrong side of the bed at 4:45. Then I read ABL’s daily defecation which pissed me off more.
A Mom Anon
@WyldPirate: Umm,the President cannot address a joint session of Congress without the Speaker putting it up for a vote first. The President isn’t a Unitary Executive. I’m not sure how to get around addressing Congress if the Congress won’t even let it come up for a vote. That’s not what I’d call rolling over. I think the idea was to be able to say”Look,glad you all are back from vacation,let’s get moving on jobs now”. This isn’t just the House being petulant,Sen. DeMint also promised to put a halt on this,even if the House agreed to it.
I disagree with alot of what the Dems and the President are doing,but some shit isn’t just about Obama being weak or whatever the butthurt of the day is. It’s also a problem that alot of Americans,including some in Congress, actually don’t know how their government works AND don’t bother to inform themselves before they start bitching about the President.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@WyldPirate: Hang tough bra. . .
Odie Hugh Manatee
@WyldPirate:
So you consider ABL’s post to be “defecation” and felt that you had to drop a bigger load? I’ve heard of a morning dump but you put a whole new meaning to it.
Kudos?
geg6
So, as it has ever been, threatened white men seek to emasculate the black man.
Right, Wyld man? You and Boner and Joe Walsh. Screaming fear of the blackies. Cowards, every one of you.
harlana
Don’t you all think progressives should bear this historical level of disrespect towards the president with the same level of self-control and silence that you want from them on pretty much anything?
I don’t care about any of this, I am immune at this point to republican douchebaggery, a term which is inadequate in expressing what they are doing, but the english language is out of adjectives that rise to the level of asshattery we are experiencing.
Don’t get me wrong, I do care that the republicans have disrespected the president again and I am offended, but that’s beyond par for the course now and this is certainly a small thing to focus on as far as the bigger picture of loathing and disrespect they have have shown for the president at every opportunity to do so. This silliness (speech scheduling) has already been flogged to death by the media but I think it will pass soon and we’ll move back to jobs. .
People like Walsh should be categorically ignored. If he was, he’d stop. Ok, I know I don’t live in an ideal world, but really, this guy does not deserve even a raised eyebrow. He is walking scum. His constituents must be every bit as fucking dumb (or maybe dumber) as we SCians, and that’s saying a lot.
kansi
@dogwood:
Thanks, I agree and appreciate this thought.
Chris
@Monkey Business:
Oh, I don’t know. I wasn’t following politics much back then but they definitely had the same “Clinton must fail and all our duties as secondary to that objective” logic, which is why it culminated in impeachment, a level they have yet to reach here. Disrespect specifically… I wouldn’t know.
Two factors for the increased Obama disrespect, though. One, there’s been another decade of them ramping up the politics-as-civil-war stuff, of course they’re going to get more extreme as time goes by. Two: he’s black.
WyldPirate
@geg6:
You’re full of shit, geg6.
Obama is emsasculating himself by not showing any fucking spine and negotiating –every time on every issue– by meeting the Rethugs more than halfway.
And what does he get for it? More of the same. What does he do about it? slinks away and seeks more compromise with nihilists and douchebags in the Rethug party.
Now run along and shove your baseless accusations and labels of me as a racist up your stupid ass.
Chris
@A Mom Anon:
Thank you – this. I’ve been saying it for years now, and while there are several gajillion excellent reasons why I’d never vote conservative, this is the top one.
StonyPillow
Joe Walsh says:
Hmmn. The Christine O’Donnell “I’m not a witch — I’m you” gambit. Should be interesting to see how many residents of McHenry County, especially the womenfolk, identify with Deadbeat Dad.
A Mom Anon
@Chris: Yeah,there’s that AND they really seem to delight in ripping families and communities apart.
I’d also bet a large percentage of the assclowns bitching the most right now wouldn’t even want to live in the America they want to foist on the rest of us.
RosiesDad
@Monkey Business:
When the President made it repeatedly clear that he would turn the other cheek and put up with it.
Dennis SGMM
What is unprecedented is having staffers who decide that scheduling a joint address to Congress in opposition to a Republican presidential debate is an okay thing to do. If the shoe was on the other foot ABL’s outraged screed would be several tedious paragraphs longer.
Someone on Obama’s staff goofed up, BFD. The thinly veiled attempt to turn Boehner into Lester Madox over an unforced error by Obama’s staff just redefines desperation.
Chris
@A Mom Anon:
They don’t think they’ll have to, I think. They expect that if the Republicans are elected, those people will finally get their just desserts, but nothing’ll happen to them.
John S.
@Yutsano:
Google this blog for the term “Bizarro Bush”. I’ve been referring to what you describe for quite some time. Jackasses like WyldPirate aren’t braying because they are racist, but because they didn’t get their very own tough guy Daddy president to slap Republicans around.
For emoprogs, it’s all about Obama being weak, a pussy, not strong enough, getting rolled, etc. And the first example they’ll toss out their is Bush. See? Daddy Bush always got HIS way! Daddy Bush always pushed HIS opponents around and strong-armed Congress! Why can’t Obama be more like Daddy Bush stylistically?
They wanted Bizarro Bush, and all they got was this guy named Obama.
Donut
@dogwood:
Good observations, especially the last point, which I think we as Democratic types are not talking about enough. I was thinking similar thoughts the other day – especially after reading and thinking about MLK last week, before the storm side-tracked the memorial dedication. I’m not even a huge sports fan, but a sports analogy occurred to me: the President is much more Jackie Robinson than Muhammed Ali in terms of his demeanor and public face. The point being that before our stupid racist, bigoted, crooked-ass culture will accept the latter, the former kinda has to take it on the chin a million times, and still manage to get up every day and say, “is that all you got, assholes?”
We can’t cut the president any slack, not now – and not because he doesn’t deserve it, but because there just is any time for such luxuries. But putting oneself in his shoes for a minute now and again is advisable. He’s not perfect, and who is, but the guy has had a lot of successes, considering the circumstances.
John S.
@Yutsano:
Google this blog for the term “Bizarro Bush”. I’ve been referring to what you describe for quite some time. Jackasses like WyldPirate aren’t braying because they are racist, but because they didn’t get their very own tough guy Daddy president to slap Republicans around.
For emoprogs, it’s all about Obama being weak, a pu$$y, not strong enough, getting rolled, etc. And the first example they’ll toss out there for contrast is Bush. See? Daddy Bush always got HIS way! Daddy Bush always pushed HIS opponents around and strong-armed Congress! Why can’t Obama be more like Daddy Bush stylistically?
They wanted Bizarro Bush, and all they got was this guy named Obama.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dennis SGMM:
That is a fair point, and, if that was that primary attitude being seen from people, I don’t think you would see the level of attack on Boehner, et al., but a reasonably large number of people are portraying this as an “OMG Obama caved,” moment. That can rile up Obama’s supporters. Further, this post is really about the propriety of a Congressman flat out saying that he does not believe that an address by the President to a joint session of Congress is not worth his time.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@WyldPirate: Shorter WyldAsshole:
The nigger deserves it.
soonergrunt
Go ahead and add showing the President of the United States the respect he deserves to the list of Shit Joe Walsh Won’t Do—along with paying more than 100K in child support owed to his
ex-wifechildren.There, FIFY.
John S.
Here’s what I said in July 2008 when emoprogs were already freaking out over Obama not living up to their expectations:
Same as it always was.
StonyPillow
Forgot the link to the Joe Walsh “I’m not a witch — I’m you” gambit.
Please return to your regularly scheduled coffee.
soonergrunt
@Yutsano: I see what you did there.
sherparick
Actually, my problem with the President is that he and his team are their stubborness in refusing to change strategy and adapt when the facts and situation change. Martin Wolf of the Financial Times said something I have been thinking guite a bit since really 2008 about the President: “… Obama wishes to be president of a country that does not exist. In his fantasy US, politicians bury differences in bipartisan harmony. In fact, he faces an opposition that would prefer their country to fail than their president to succeed…” http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/08/martin-wolf-looks-the-economic-situation-squarely-in-the-eye.html
One of the Obama campaign tropes in the primary against Hilary was that he, unlike her, would be able to reach across the aisle and find common grounds with Conservatives, that the there would be no repeat of the “partisan” warfare of 1990s. I thought it was a weak trope, but it played well with the Village Media, whose feedback cause the Obama team to believe that this was the “key” to their success. They also bought into the idea that Rubinomics (pro-bank policies while cutting Government deficits) was the key to restarting economic growth. And when the facts of an implacable, almost crazy opposition, and a liquidity trap economy presented themselves to the President, he and his folks seem to just deny the reality or accept that they may have made some misjudgements that require a course correction. The result is in his relationship with McConnell and Boehner he keeps creating situations where he makes himself dependent on the good will of men who clearly stated that there primary object is to prevent his reelection, and on the economy, he has eliminated is strongest tools for getting the economy going by accepting the trope that the Government is broke, even at a time where it can borrow for 10 years at just over a 2% interest rate.
arguingwithsignposts
@WyldPirate:
I didn’t have to read any more to know that the only proper, decorous response to your spittle-flecked furious typing is:
you can not so kindly go fuck yourself.
kay
@WyldPirate:
Wyld Pirate, ABL’s post says nothing about any of that. It’s about Walsh.
Frankly, I don’t understand why a single pro-Obama blogger gets you so upset. There are plenty of anti-Obama bloggers. PLENTY. On any given day, were I to want to, I can read 20 or more posts critical of Obama on the big liberal sites.
She doesn’t agree with you about the President. A lot of Democrats don’t, if we’re to believe the polls. I don’t agree with you. Why is that so offensive? Is it really such a big scary threat?
Did you know there is now a whole section on the internet Left that is pro-Obama? Completely fascinating. There is a blog called “the Pro-President Obama Blog”. I kid you not. The People’s View is a pro-Obama policy blog. Great! What’s wrong with that? There’s room for that, right?
That was completely predictable, and is completely great. They’re all minor players, but it was inevitable that there would be push-back to what they see as relentlessly negative coverage of Obama. I was surprised it took as long as it did, given their numbers, again, if I believe polling.
That’s how debates work. Both sides are represented. Deal with it. You’ll be fine.
Omnes Omnibus
@sherparick: A political reality here is that Obama must also take into account what conservative Democrats will support. If he proposes something and the Blue Dogs flat out oppose it, he would walk into a buzz saw of “Even his own party doesn’t back his plan, that how dangerous and radical he is” shit in the media. It would get play everywhere and the people who only pay tiny bits of attention to politics would hear it and it would resonate. As a result, I believe Obama is somewhat hamstrung, not by a pathological need to compromise, but rather by the need to thread the needle between what is necessary and what won’t scare the Blue Dogs into shivving him in public.
soonergrunt
Quoted for truth
Tuttle
That’s how debates work. Both sides are represented. Deal with it. You’ll be fine.
Yes, both sides; the crazy side and the side that believes we need to meet the crazy half way.
We won’t be fine. We’re fucked. Badly. But at least the rails to hell are well greased with civility!
cleek
@Omnes Omnibus:
yeah, but who cares what Congress wants. Obama should just do it!
/idiot
Baud
@kay: My God, that’s reasonable. You’ll never make it in this business if you keep acting like that.
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m proud to be a Democrat, but just about every Democrat thinks they’re the only Democrat that matters. It’s really not just a liberal thing; the Blue Dogs think their interests matter more because they have to win in tougher districts.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tuttle: Hey, look, we found the bizarro Emile Coue.
kay
@Tuttle:
Now, you knew that wasn’t what I was talking about, but by all means use my words to make your point.
On your point (which wasn’t mine) I think process fights hurt the incumbent President more than they do the challenger, and this was a process fight, ie: interesting or relevant only to political professionals and interested amateurs. I would have shut it down too, were I him, and taken the hit. It isn’t what he wants to talk about.
But that’s always a judgment call. Your opinion of the worthiness of a pissing match over a speech date may vary.
kay
@Baud:
Wyld Pirate is always spoiling for a fight, but when he gets one, he gets incredibly upset and distraught. He may not be cut out for internet battling, if it’s keeping him up nights :)
Look for another line ‘o work.
kay
On-topic, I think it should be noted that the most money free-market proponent Walsh ever made in his worthless, non-child supporting grifter life is when the idiot Tea Partiers elected him to Congress. That’s right. This gubmint job is the high point for him, income-wise. Which is good, because now his children have an asset to attach. His federal paycheck.
I cannot imagine a worse person to offer advice on success in small business.
He was an abject failure at making money. He was an abject failure at the one and only thing he values: money. Michelle Obama could give then better career advice. Maybe she could meet with Walsh and set up a family budget for him.
geg6
@WyldPirate:
Well, when you use the same frames as the racists, it’s pretty hard to see how you are any different.
Just sayin’.
The Other Bob
@sb:
They wanted a
bullyCheney. They got apresidentBiden instead.Tyro
. Could you imagine the outcry from the right if a Democrat up and decided he or she just didn’t feel like attending a Bush address?
Yes. And I kind of wish the democrats had the balls to pull off something like that.
kay
@StonyPillow:
Complete bullshit, of course. This is the single best paying job he has ever had. Ever. Were it not for the Tea Party, he’d be scrambling to make child support, and dodging his creditors, full-time, instead of part-time.
I don’t think he’s worked a full year in his entire adult life. This will be a first for him. Interestingly, he doesn’t bother to show up for this job either. The free market was working just fine in Walsh’s case, completely rejecting his “talents”, until the Tea party stepped in and gave him a job.
geg6
@Tyro:
You know what takes balls? I can tell you right now that it’s not being a rude, disrespectful asshole.
It’s taking the slings and arrows, walking on despite them, and maintaining dignity the entire time.
Make a study of the life of Lincoln or MLK or Ghandi. And then tell me who has bigger balls.
OzoneR
The left wanted someone who could change the conversation that has been mainstream for the past 30 years. To do that, they had to convince a white historically racist country full of pride that they’ve been wrong all along, and they thought the black guy who sounded smarter than then can do that?
Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
A.J.
He issued a statement about something he wasn’t going to do? I get that right?
What a self-absorbed ass.
arguingwithsignposts
@kay:
Well, at least he got that right. Also, does IL not have automatic child support deductions from payroll?
General Stuck
@Dennis SGMM:
Your comment has nothing to do with ABL’s post. A post that does not relate to whatever was behind the scheduling snafu. WTF is wrong with you? Your lame attacks on ABL should at least be rational to the subject of her post.. Clown, you and Wildy, cut from the same hateful cloth.
kay
@OzoneR:
I think the conversation on taxes has changed completely. I think that’s a huge success. Liberals and Democrats won that argument. They don’t have the tangible victory yet, but they won the public argument. They’re halfway home.
That’s huge. My entire adult life conservatives have been scaring the shit out of Democrats (including Bill Clinton) by threatening to portray them as tax-raisers. Most of the juice is gone from that attack, and it’s turning out to be a political liability for conservatives. That’s a huge public sentiment win, but rather than recognizing THEY WON that part of the battle, liberals and Democrats just sink nto despair. I don’t get it. I’ll never get it. They don’t lose every fight. They just refuse to acknowledge the interim wins.
arguingwithsignposts
@geg6:
Recently, I watched a documentary about the Freedom Riders. I encourage everyone to watch it. That took balls.
FlipYrWhig
I want all discussions and meta-discussions of How To Appear Tough In Politics to be banished into the Phantom Zone, especially those discussions initiated by obvious dorks vicariously working through their own sixth-grade traumas. L’esprit de l’escalier. Get over it.
OzoneR
@kay:
I don’t think a lot of these people actually WANT to win.
arguingwithsignposts
@FlipYrWhig: so is that a meta-meta comment, or a meta-meta-meta comment?
kay
@arguingwithsignposts:
Every state has automatic deductions. Clinton changed the whole child support system, and made it uniform nationally. The state objective was not touchy-feely. It was hard-headed. They were getting killed on assistance to children, because parents (it’s not always dads!) weren’t supporting their children.
Judges in family and juvenile court state it right out loud: “you’re going to pay because the state of Ohio isn’t”.
Which is what makes Walsh my favorite Tea Partier. The hypocrisy doesn’t get any better than him.
geg6
@arguingwithsignposts:
Exactly. Dignity in the face of hysterical hate. It moves me to tears.
Although I am also frustrated sometimes by the way Obama deals with these things like this scheduling silliness or not smacking Joe Walsh in the face, I remember this stuff and realize that this is the wisest and most effective way to act in such circumstances.
FlipYrWhig
@arguingwithsignposts: Touche. :P I hated sixth grade too. I just haven’t decided to view all decisions in my adult life through a prism of wishful thinking about how I really should have punched Jedlowski when he took my granola bar, because then I would have been cool.
kay
@OzoneR:
It’s a fundamental change in how we talk about taxes. “Fair share” has won the day. The Reagan approach is sucking wind, public sentiment-wise.
I’m surprised as hell, frankly. I didn’t think I’d see it in my lifetime. But I’m pleased, you know? It’s a major accomplishment, in my opinion. The public is on our side.
arguingwithsignposts
@geg6: yeah. me too. i can’t honestly imagine facing that level of hate and not striking back in anger.
FlipYrWhig
@kay:
And it was a lot of deficit talk that set that in motion. We’ll see if it lasts, but I agree that it’s an interesting development.
General Stuck
Obama as US president, is a further walk in Jackie Robinson’s shoes, is the way I look at it. For the same reasons Branch Rickey requested Jackie take the indignities with grace, in order to beat the haters. All the while, keeping the focus on the job at hand, baseball for Robinson, presidenting for Obama.
Marc
@WyldPirate:
You don’t support Obama. So don’t pretend to speak for Obama supporters.
Marc
@FlipYrWhig:
But that’s not possible! Obama changed the public conversation about taxes, and he did so by ignoring the sage tactical advice of the online left!
MomSense
@Yutsano #7
Progressives are schizophrenic! I remember the complaints abut W and his unitary executive, failure to treat the Legislative branch like the equal it should be, disgust with the debt and deficits, and his “cowboy” bully mentality at home and abroad.
Lori
This latest disrespect to Obama, on top of so much before, makes me sad to think about how much we as a country need to improve on race. Then I think of the painting Obama has outside the Oval Office, of the little girl integrating her school and suffering insults. An appropriate and inspiring reminder of how continuing his work with dignity is so much more important than those awful people.
kay
@FlipYrWhig:
I watched video of a Paul Ryan town hall, and there was this middle-aged lady who perfectly typified the whole debate. Ryan was droning on about how “job creators” can’t be taxed fairly and she did this dismissive motion with her hand, and said something like “oh, trickle down. You always say that”. Just great. She, like me, has heard this shit her entire life and is not buying it anymore.
Mitt Romney robotically recites the tax mantra almost apologetically, like he’s reading from a script. All the fire is gone! They know it’s a loser.
Pelosi is flat- out saying “tax the rich”. That’s a huge change for Democrats. They used to avoid the subject of taxes completely. John Kerry looked hunted when it was raised in ’04. He couldn’t change the subject fast enough.
arguingwithsignposts
@kay: if the ultimate effect were to wipe the influence of Grover Fucking Norquist out of American politics, it will be pure win, imho.
kay
@FlipYrWhig:
I think what Obama has done is talk about taxes. It started in the ’08 campaign. He talks about taxes. Democrats never used to do that. The funniest thing about the whole Joe The Plumber episode is how wrong media got it.
Obama completely engaged on taxes with Joe. He made the liberal argument. Patiently. Thoroughly. That’s what amazed me. He didn’t dodge it. It’s a good argument. There’s no reason to dodge it. But Democratic politicians always have, in my lifetime, anyway. Hell, Ted Strickland, the Democratic governor of Ohio and frequent Obama critic, ran from taxes. Deer in the headlights every time it was mentioned. I liked him as governor, but that was disappointing.
Bulworth
I can’t wait for PerryRomney to be president so we can return to the rule that disrespecting the pres gets your records smashed. //
geg6
@Bulworth:
Heh. Just watched that documentary OnDemand again last weekend. I’m no country music fan, but after watching “Shut Up and Sing” the first time several years ago, I am now a Dixie Chicks fan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shut_Up_%26_Sing
kth
Conservatives only love their country when their side wins an election.
Surly Duff
Frankly, none of this political theater means anything. The only thing that will ultimately affect public approval, and the only thing the admin should concern itself with, is whether the proposals introduced have a positive affect on the unemployment rate in this country.
Anya
@WyldPirate: I am beginning to think you’re hatred of President Obama has nothing to do with any perceived or real disappointments over unfulfilled campaign promises. I think it comes from the same place as Limbaugh’s, the only difference is the mask it’s wearing.
FormerSwingVoter
At some point, don’t Republicans need to at least pretend they’re not openly at war with Americans?
Cacti
@WyldPirate:
Hey everybody, southern cracker hates the black President.
What a surprise.
PaulW
Can Joe Walsh’s district do us all a huge favor and vote his deadbeat ass out of office? Plzkthnxbai
FlipYrWhig
@Surly Duff:
Republicans won’t allow anything that has a positive effect on unemployment, and conservative Democrats are deficit hawks/peacocks, so all we have left is symbolism anyway. That’s a whole separate discussion that takes place on different terrain: how Obama should talk if all he can do is talk, vs. how Obama should talk if he’s trying to cajole politicians into voting for stuff. Distinct rhetorical strategies are in order in each case.
Anya
@Bulworth: This quote by Joy Reid via Rumproast, explains why we don’t see the same reaction when President Obama is disrespected.
Cacti
@Anya:
One time, it made the mistake of letting its mask slip. On a thread about the Confederacy, it couldn’t help itself and had to step up and defend the honor of one Nathan Bedford Forrest, slave trader and Ku Klux Klan founder.
Wyld Bedford Forrest Pirate is a neoconfederate cracker pretending to be an outraged liberal.
FlipYrWhig
@Cacti: I don’t think race is much of a factor. I think Obama critics have many valid points about suboptimal political outcomes; I just don’t think they put proper weight on the reasons for those, and they put _way_ too much weight on wishful thinking about fighting and looking tough as tactics that would secure better political outcomes.
Ironically, or something, the Big Media those critics purportedly despise is hung up on a lot of the same things. Think of Chris Matthews, Maureen Dowd, and all the psychosexual baggage they carry — as aptly dissected by Bob Somerby.
Swishalicious
@John S.:
I think the rhetoric of “emoprogs” wanting Bizarro Bush may be just about the dumbest goddamn thing I’ve read in a while. And given that ABL has been back for a few days now, I’ve read quite a few stupid things lately.
If the status quo is: Republican president accepts no compromise and pushes through almost all of his domestic and foreign agendas, fucks the country, and leaves office; Democratic president comes in, compromises away the kitchen table so that his policies are ineffective in the face of the massive problems caused by the prior GOP president…
PROFIT??!??!!
if the Republicans are hell bent on ideas that are so insane they can’t even be called conservative, and Democrats are so gun shy they will bite the bullet on things that are merely conservative, how are we ever going to fix this mess?
of course i am assuming that, you know, history is a lesson in the utter failure of conservative (and worse) policies
FlipYrWhig
@Swishalicious:
The status quo is: Conservative Democrats fall in line behind Republican president, conservative Democrats balk at Democratic president unless stroked and fed properly, ergo what conservative Democrats want, happens. That’s the difference. “Compromising away” whatever is driven by skittish conserva-Dems.
Electing a liberal majority. Not just a Democratic majority, a liberal one. Including in suburbs, exurbs, and Red State monocultures. Doesn’t seem too likely, does it?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@FlipYrWhig:
Shhh! Those are facts that you’re sprouting there. You should be careful with those things.
Facts can hurt!
Tyro
Make a study of the life of Lincoln or MLK or Ghandi. And then tell me who has bigger balls.
Two out of three of those never held elective office. This is what pisses me off so much about my fellow liberals– they have no interest in politics or winning elections, and yet they keep involving themselves and talking about how great their picks for politicians are, almost modeled on non-politicians. And then they wonder why they keep losing elections and political battles.
Kristine
Just a shout-out to kay for her always-welcome sanity and clearheadedness.
And Yutsano’s point about some progs wanting their own Dubya. Agreed.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tyro:
I don’t think ghandi or king lost their political battle, whether they were elected or not.
ETA: and do you notice another similarity between those three?
Tone in DC
@Swishalicious:
And she came to your house and forcibly MADE you comment on this. Yeah, right.
I’m certain you didn’t actually read what she wrote.
Try this, outraged one…
scroll
past.
John S.
@swishalicious:
Yeah, the premise is so stupid that you just validated it:
You clearly want the Bizarro version of this. Democratic president accepts no compromise and pushes through almost all of his domestic and foreign agendas, saves the country, and leaves office. Hell, I would love for this to happen – but it isn’t possible for the reasons FlipYrWhig mentioned.
Oh, and while you’re fluffing Bush’s prowess for (mis)governing, let me know how your privatized SS is working out for you.
JR
@Anya:
This just isn’t true. Liberals and progressives all despise the teatards and their open disrespect, nay, hatred of President Obama. The news media ignores us, not our fault.
I had some serious electrical work done recently. The contractor (who I never met before, he was recommended by a friend who retired recently from commercial construction work) was a round, buzz-cut guy. I met him at the nearest point he knew how to find, and he followed me home.
First thing he says is “Love your bumper sticker!” speaking of the Veterans for Obama sticker I got before Mr. Obama won his primary battle for the Dem. nomination. This is in southern West Virginia, in a county President Obama did not take in the general election.
There’s a lot of nuance in how most people feel about Republican hatred of our government and the Democratic Party. Most folks who aren’t racists are very uncomfortable with the disrespect going on in Republican circles, even people with relatively conservative politics.
There are a lot of conservatives who aren’t racist at all, and those folks hate what they see. My contractor told me he would never vote for a Republican again, and when he told his life-long Republican (and elderly) Mom that he was done, she actually said it would be hard to blame him. This guy is a grandfather, and he’s worried about his grand-kids because he doesn’t think the R’s are capable of leading the country forward.
President Obama hasn’t lived up to all my expectations… I expected to see bankers in jail, and to my surprise and delight, just the other day the Goldman,Sachs CEO hired a criminal defence lawyer!
So I’m going to give our President time and support. Again.
Just like I did President Clinton.
JR
PS, the sticker has been on both vehicles since primary times, and I’ve only had two other drivers react negatively, a biker in Arizona two years ago, and a successful-looking passenger in a big Detroit car in Ohio last summer.
Anya
@Cacti: My memory is fuzzy, but didn’t WyldPirate agree with premise of wingnut’s we-hate-the gays-muslims-blacks-women petition about how black families or children were better off under slavery time than under the first black president — because in the slavery era children tended to grow up with two parents?
geg6
@Tyro:
You know what, asshole? Fuck this shit.
FTR, I have a degree in political science, with a minor in history. I have been an active Democrat (meaning that I have canvassed, registered voters, marched and held up signs at rallies, phone banked, driven voters to the polls, worked at the polls, spoken at rallies and meetings, and actually worked on a campaign and policy measure or two) since 1976. Now, tell me again what I don’t know about politics.
You are obviously too stupid to get the point I made. It’s not about being a politician. It’s about grace under pressure. Which you, obviously, don’t have.
Anya
@JR: I think you’re right — there’s a silent majority out there but the media reports the disdain that the prominent members of the so-called base has for the President. Just tell me if he receives less vitriol and disrespect from Hamsher, Uygur, Kos (less than the rest), West, Smiley, et al than he gets from wingers. They advance the same memes but dress it in a different ideology.
geg6
@Anya:
I must have missed that one. But I will never forget his rabid defense of Nathan Bedford Forrest. Never. Couldn’t hide his white sheets that day. He’s a racist, through and through.
licensed to kill time
I finally installed cleek’s pie filter, and the first thing Wyldie said today was:
“What’s round, brown, and full of hot steamy goodness? PIE!”
Haha, rather apropos. Thanks, cleek!
grandpajohn
@soonergrunt: @soonergrunt:
In other worlds living in the real world instead of fantasy land
kay
@grandpajohn:
I don’t think Obama gets enough support from the institutional Democratic Party. I’ve thought that from the start. They’re a political Party. They have no other real purpose than supporting and promoting their candidates, and Obama is their candidate, in addition to being the incumbent.
We suck at this, as a Party. Forget the “professional Left”. We have a problem with people on the payroll in the Democratic Party. It’s fucking incredible to me. Where do they get off with this reluctant, grudging support of the Democrat? Do they have some other job I’m not aware of? I must be confused. I thought their job was electing Democrats, not serving as impartial critics.
Anya
@geg6: This is what WyldPirate said at comment# 51 on this thread
Anyone who read the petition and didn’t recoil is someone with deep seated prejudices. Instead WyldPirate attacked ABL for unfairly smearing Michele Bachmann.
kc
@MTmofo: \
That’s it! I was trying to figure out why Walsh looked vaguely familiar.
TheWorstPersonInTheWorld
@WyldPirate:
Lulz. That is RIGHTEOUSLY awesome.
Are we a friend of Bill’s?
Anya
@kay: I think in this instant the media chooses to ignore the party and instead go to the Dem side that’s criticizing the President – for not doing enough or the Nelsons of the party, who are always arguing that the President is going too far. In the media, in any issue, you have the Administration’s side and two opposing sides: the Republican side, and the angry base.
grandpajohn
@PaulW: he don’t have a district anymore after the redistricting
FlipYrWhig
@kc: Clarence Beeks!
kay
@Anya:
Okay, but give me an example. Who’s the high profile Democratic Party advocate the media are silencing? Seems like a vacuum to me. It’s odd to have a political party who have decided they are impartial observers of the political scene, is it not? I don’t see that on the Right, on the political end.
I’m not talking about the parade of former elected Democrats who are pundits, or even elected Democrats raising policy objections.
This is a political Party, with a huge payroll. Where are they? Just sort of undecided on supporting the incumbent? WTF?
I mean, really. It’s bizarre. What’s the point of the whole vast payroll if it’s not to publicly and loudly support the Democrat?
Are they shy people? Sort of wishy washy independents?
Anya
@kay: But isn’t the job of the head of the DNC to mobilize support for the President and to put together a rapid response team for any issue? This might be really simplistic but I think we need Howard Dean back at the helm.
TheWorstPersonInTheWorld
Spot-on, Kay. Thank you for articulating something I’ve been wondering for at least 20 years.
oops. does saying that make me racist?
Anya
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld:
No, but asking that stupid question makes you cruel, insensitive, smug, humourless prick.
kay
@Anya:
That never works, in my experience, a re-hire. Never, ever. Things begin and they end, and we must accept that :)
Just as a practical, on the ground matter, all of the paid activists I know at the state level cycle through: they went from Dean to Obama 08 to the Ohio Democrats to union advocacy jobs, etc.. The nature of that work is cumulative. They’re the same people. It’s not like they unlearn whatever they learned from Dean. They add campaigns.
But. At the top. Surely there’s a talented advocate somewhere in the cubicles there at the DNC they could promote to cable tv fame? Is it really Howard Dean or nothing? We have ONE GUY? If we do, we have big organizational/management problems, I must say.
Maura Cavaleri
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Exactly.
Chris
@FlipYrWhig:
No, but that is indeed the answer. Twenty years straight of sending liberal Democrats to both Congress and the White House and pressuring them to be more liberal, back in the 1930s and 1940s, is what gave us the best economy we ever had in the following years.
Ultimately, it comes back to the American people – not Obama or the “professional left” or even the Republicans. Don’t feel comfortable electing Democrats, and even less comfortable with the liberal ones, because of God knows what personal issues – then don’t vote for them. But don’t complain when your country keeps getting deeper and deeper in the shitter.
Anya
@kay: you know way more about this than I do, so you’re right, substituting one leader for another might not change much but Dean was more affective than our last DNC Chairs. Maybe as a party we’re more mobilized when we’re out of power because we don’t have our side to kick around, so we focus more energy on the opposing side.
kay
@Anya:
I don’t know more than you. I know my own little area, and the individuals I encounter there or at state party events and such. The rest I read or watch (national), same as you.
I run into this with court-appointed lawyers, and it always makes me crazy.
“I have some concerns about this kid”. Great. Indulge those, by all means. God forbid you should know what you’re actually doing here, and offering your personal opinion is not what you’re doing here.
They’re paid partisan advocates. If they have concerns about Mr. Obama, or are sort of “on the fence” about a full-throated defense of the Democratic Party, whatever, they should probably find other work.
FlipYrWhig
@Chris: Agreed. But re-liberalizing America is a decades-long undertaking that will move extremely slowly.
JenJen
@Yutsano:
This is SO true. I would take it a step further and say maybe their own Cheney, too.
kay
And I’m ranting, Anya, and it is of course not directed at you.
I hate being a Democrat :)
I’m all for dissenters w/in the ranks, but could we please have some hired guns? Some “happy warriors” who enjoy a spirited back and forth, and can make a statement without 15 qualifiers on their personal concerns?
johnsmith1882
I live in Illinois, and would just like to point out a few things about this Walsh guy. First of all, he has a very slim chance of getting reelected. He was one of the few teabag types to ride the wave into office in IL, defeating a blue dog, Melissa Bean, in a district that always goes republican. The district, made up of wealthy outer suburbs like Barrington and even further away places that are nice places to go fishing and camping, is 95% white. Bean voted for healthcare. So, basically, Walsh is in office because healthcare is socialism multiplied by satan.
The district has been split in half, and isn’t solely comprised of wealthy outer-burbs and nice places to go fishing any longer. Walsh will have to decide which district he will run in the next time, and is one of the plaintiffs in the suit against the redistricting done in IL.
Oh, did I mention that Walsh defeated Bean by a robust 290 votes?
So, he barely squeaked by a conservative democrat in a consistently conservative district, riding the wave of anti-healthcare sentiment, and now his district has been cut in half.
All his bluster is an attempt at earning street cred with the National right wing. A tale. Told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.
Whichever district he opts to run in, he won’t pass the sniff test. He will be primaried, he will have to explain his extremism and his deadbeat dad status and why he lost his driver’s license this year for letting his insurance lapse, and he will likely lose. Not that a republican won’t still be in the house representing that IL district, it just won’t be Walsh.
Which is a long way of saying: don’t let this idiot get in your head, just point at him and laugh. This thread got hijacked by Obama this and Obama that, when it has got nothing to do with him or the joint session he called that Walsh won’t be attending. A fool like Walsh can do some foolishness and that gets us fighting amongst ourselves? Don’t take the bait. Look at Walsh, give him the pffft that he deserves, and move on.
cckids
@arguingwithsignposts:
I agree. Also, read Long Walk to Freedom (Mandela), Playing the Enemy; watch Invictus. There is a definite power & grace in rolling with the punches & getting up to fight another day. When you step back from the day-to-day naval gazing of the beltway, who looks better? Who, in the long run, will be respected more? Obama, or Boehner? Is it even a contest?
Anya
@kay: Kay, I agree with you that one of the biggest obstacles of a consistent message for this administration is lack of surrogates who can hammer that message. Maybe Gibbs and Burton will take some lead but we need folks at the DNC playing their fucking role.
@johnsmith1882: I totally agree with you – Walsh is a loser who should be mocked.
ABL
@Cacti: you should have seen the butthurt email he wrote to john and me back in june when he got banned for lobbing “nigger” at obama.
wyldpirate is a hateful racist asshole who thinks it’s cool to call female commenters on this blog “cunt” (which he did to asiangrrlMN and for which he was banned.)
why john continues to let this walking human sack of unempathetic misogynist racist shit comment here is beyond me.
salacious crumb
HEY ABL!
is Frank Rich racist? he criticized his President, a black man!..oh the horror!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/02/frank-rich-obama-weak-amateurish_n_946479.html
salacious crumb
@ABL: thats quite coming from you ABL..u get all huffy because someone called a female commenter c#nt but u call other uncle fucker and racists and thats ok…yeah get a real job ABL. come up with something better than branding anyone criticizing the President as racist. American elected him, not just black people.
Cacti
@ABL:
More than a few white internet lefties have a major blind spot about their racial paternalism.
Wyld Klansman on the other hand is just a straight up troglodyte.