The media won’t admit this, but Perry gains the most from the debate because people loved that he executed so many people. That was the only time the audience really got excited.
It is that simple.
They like the anti-science and “abject liar” and “Keynes is dead” stuff a lot too. I just don’t think media observers understand the Republican electorate at all.
Shorter: Perry knocked ’em dead at his first GOP debate.
The next GOP debate will be held on a gallows and the winner gets to throw the lever to hang two robbers and an carpenter.
I thought the audience reaction would be more likely to creep people out, but YMMV.
Perry doubling down on the Ponzi Scheme thing should sink him; he can be nominated, sure, but he can’t win the General.
Big Baby DougJ
It creeped the non-Republicans watching out but they won’t vote much in Republican primaries.
It truly was the Rick Perry Show tonight
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
It’s just discouraging. Then I remind myself it’s a confederate party debate so there are unlikely to be very many sane folks in the audience, and I feel a bit better. I still wish I had an exquisite martini, however.
Tonight just keeps with the Republican theme of keep them dumb and keep them scared and they’ll do your bidding.
You’d think the media would have a better grasp of the Republican electorate being that they are so enamoured of these
Mike in NC
Recall that Dubya executed a mentally retarded woman and bragged about it and even mocked her. They ate that shit up, too.
Great Tom Junod piece on Perry and execution jus tpopped up on Esquire’s Politics Blog.
Gin & Tonic
I have been drinking, feeling no need to watch the debate, particularly since I can read the summary here much more quickly. Besides, aren’t there like eleventy-three more of these?
I’m not sure the majority of the GOP electorate (or general) knows or cares who Keynes was.
Wow, how is it that Barack Obama always manages to win these GOP debates and he isn’t even on stage?
I think Romney wins by default cause Perry is just beaucoup crazy. Still I think it’s Perry’s nomination to lose.
I would LOVE to see an election between Obama and Huntsman. Honestly, I guess the New England Republican in me is coming out (thought long dead), but I really like him.
Converseley, does the GOP understand the general electorate?
That makes me feel nauseous.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What you don’t get, Doug, is that no one watches the debates.
The last debate (before the heavily hyped straw vote) had only 978K viewers. It was the lowest rated show Fox had on that night, by 50 percent.
Big Baby DougJ
They’re like George Constanza with PABA on this one.
Perry may just cruise to the GOP nomination. At which point, the wise and tempered media elite will explain that it is time for him to pivot and court centrists. And the media will be wrong; there will be no pivot. Teh crazee will continue until either teh crazee is triumphant or the GOP crashes in flames. I’m hoping to see a wreck in 2012, so Go, Rick, Go!
Romney has some lines of attack against Pres. Obama that are particularly withering–but that doesn’t seem to matter. It certainly hasn’t helped him climb above 22-25% support. Perry appeals emotionally to the GOP electorate’s lizard-brains. To me, that gives him the edge over Romney. I think when they square off on something like Social Security, calling it a Ponzi scheme doesn’t hurt Perry with the voters who will pick the GOP nom.
Big Baby DougJ
I don’t think it helps him much, it just helps him the most.
Perry is nauseous. You are nauseated.
/ Word pedant
@Keith: No. SATSQ. But don’t tell them that just yet.
You really like the guy who wants to gut the tax code in order to make it less of a burden on the rich and more of a burden on the working poor?
Hell, I don’t I understand the Republican electorate.
Going by the audience reaction tonight, I’d they’re all bloodthirsty yahoos and ignorant cretins.
If any aliens were watching that performance in space, deciding whether or not we were ready for first contact, we surely failed.
Perry won..he kills folks. maybe he is not as tough as Cheney because he didn’t water board them..but he drew the most applause. He protected them kids.
@gnomedad: You sure? I thought it was the reverse: I feel nauseous; Rick Perry is nauseating.
OT: Fighting off what feels like a summer-flu, so I took some motrin, a benedryl and a Guinness before the debate. Nodded off on the couch, slept through it like a baby.
Best GOP debate experience, ever… now off to bed.
I didn’t watch and I was just skimming the last thread, but man, I completely forget that Newt’s in the race until someone mentions him.
Is Gary Johnson still in the race? Does he get invited to these things?
I didn’t say I agreed with everything he said. But an election fight between he and Obama would actually be a whole lot more engaging than what we are going to get. IMHO.
When a certain front page poster brought up Willingham, cough, cough, I brought up that maybe folks didn’t care but..
ALSO, TOO I am reading the bosses twitts..is rosie still alive?
Odie Hugh Manatee
That was one bloodthirsty crowd there. Shit, they love killing people. It brings raving applause though to be fair to the audience, they are clearly raving insane. Perry didn’t get much of a response for praising Obama for getting Bin Laden either.
nauseous = nauseating
I kept waiting for Walnuts to pivot last time. He picked Palin and kept appealing to his base.
You know who else killed people? Pontius Pilate, that’s who.
2012 GOP From 9-11 to today, Leadership that kills!
@Judas Escargot: All my friends were going to watch and I refused.. Guess what they saw one question and turned off but …………………..I lost brain cells watching.. I’m old and can never get those back.
Out of an earlier thread people were talking about Eric Ericson & what not, so I went over to RedState to see what they thought about the debate….Who is the commentor over there with a screen name ballonjuice? Tryin’ to steal Johns mojo. Anyway….Those folks aren’t willfully ignorant. They are wholly engaged in being completely misinformed. They spout facts that are not. They say they represent 80% of the country and they don’t.
What is it with the conservative ego anyhow? Are they stuck on King of the Hill stage or what?
Cole is the Foster Brooks of Twitter. All his Veritas comes marinated in Vino.
Josh Marshall is making the case that this was a strategic win for Romney; in that he will defend Social Security and Perry is bat shit insane. I think that is bullshit; this is a party that the entire House GOP conference voted for vouchercare and to destroy Medicare. The base of this party LIVES for the Ponzi-scheme rhetoric. The money boys might be freaked the fuck out; but I think Perry will make the case behind the doors that he will jump however high they want and stay in the air and do backflips as ordered.
Then again, I didn’t think Pawlenty would quit like a motherfucker midstroke either. So, who the hell knows anything before the first votes come in.
I just think that for the Republican primary; Romney is too far to the left. And, he’s a Mormon. I can’t see the evangelicals going for a Mormon. He was always a weak front-runner. Perry already is at 38% (something Romney never managed) without the debates. The Republican base doesn’t want him; and they’re looking for an alternative.
The same thing happened in 2008. The base went with McCain because he was more acceptable than Romney.
Perry hit the right tone from the start. It wasn’t perfect, but he made the slogans you remember (and that the media are going to repeat). I’m a little scared because an early Perry nomination gets him more time to move to the center.
@JPL: JPL, the GOP primary electorate loves them some state-sanctioned killin’, it’s the general electorate who won’t like the Willingham case so much.
The real question is, how will the money guys in the R party convince the rubes that Romney is their best guy?
I’m looking forward to witnessing that creative endeavor.
I watched Cher presenting “Follow the Fleet” on TCM. I knew I could get the gist of the debate here. And the Cole twitter feed is fabulous! I’m continuing to try to keep my record of not seeing Perry on video. I have no idea what he sounds like when he’s talking, and I’m hoping to keep it that way.
@danimal: I certainly hope you are right cuz in the red states that was a good killin. I live in GA where they are going to execute an innocent man without pause.
I can’t believe you remember Foster Brooks.
Republicans are a bloodthirsty lot, and no matter how many consultants he hires, Romney just can’t match executing an innocent man.
‘Cause even if he wasn’t guilty of killing his kids, he was probably guilty of something.
I think the debate was a lot about the pretenders ability to not answer questions.
A good politician when faced with an awkward question that they don’t have a good answer to will instead switch the topic (at worst in a non-sequitur. at best in a slightly logical sequitur) to some point they really want to advance.
From this perspective I think Michelle Bachmann came off the worst where she would jerk into and replay some remembered campaign speech that included all the “if I was president” phrases she could remember (including the “if I was president” phrases). Cain and Romney to a lesser extent seemed to be replaying campaign speech rather than thinking about a question that they were addressing or avoiding.
The other candidates seemed to be more engaged and since Perry is the newest in this race he came across as the freshest and least canned which will probably make him the new darling no matter how reprehensible his ideas.
Perry believes “thou shall not kill” has exemptions.
I watched a documentary on the Packers’ super bowl season [/shallow].
I only remember ’70s TV. In my mind SNL is still funny and George Jefferson is a minor character on All in the Family.
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Andrew Sullivan said pretty much the same thing.
I wish I could find the story I read suggesting that Huntsman was actually “running” for Joe Biden’s job.
I don’t think it was the Onion, but come to think, it may have been someone (Wonkette? Gawker?) quoting an anti-Huntsman Tea Party chain mail…
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Andrew Sullivan said pretty much the same thing.
John Huntsman? The one and only candidate on that stage to actually make a teleprompter joke for no apparent reason?
I don’t much like someone who’s flailing and decides to throw in the easiest most tired meme that was out their.
@jaywillie: I don’t know, I have a friend who is completely beyond reach but she almost had a stroke hearing Republicans call SS and Medicare a Ponzi scheme. She’s now shrieking about them calling it an “entitlement.”
She’ll never vote for Obama but I doubt very much she’ll vote for any of the Republicans either.
hells littlest angel
One thing worries me. Is running a Ponzi scheme a capital offense in Texas?
The bible is full of such exemptions.
That was my take on Perry as soon as he started making noises about getting in. TPaw is boring, Bachmann has a vagina, Newt is fat and old, Cain is melanin-challenged, Ron Paul isn’t for enough wars, Huntsman’s not crazy enough, nobody cares about Santorum, and Mitt wears funny underwear. Perry, OTOH, is just right – wingnuts are happy to vote for him, and the big money guys know he’s reliable. It’s his nomination unless he blows it.
Perry is all id. It’s going to be the unleashed lizard brain against the black
guyobelisk from 2001 A Space Odyssey. The 2012 election will be an irresistable force meeting an immovable object.
I am trying to figure out what moving to the “center” would entail for Perry — perhaps conceding SS isn’t a Ponzi scheme, but merely a pyramid scheme?
J. Michael Neal
@John S.: I like Jon Huntsman the man, not the candidate. I would never vote for him so long as the Democrats nominate someone to the right of Bakunin and to the left of Petr Wrangel. (I just finished Orlando Figes history of the Russian revolution. Can you tell?)
However, should the candidate I voted for lose the election, I wouldn’t be terrified that Huntsman will destroy the country before we get a chance to elect another Democrat. I can’t say that about anyone else in the Republican field.
Okay, I wouldn’t actually be worried that Romney would blow up the planet, but he could do a lot of damage trying to convince the wingnuts that he would like to.
Couldn’t make myself watch this one. Have had a fairly decent Karma buzz today, especially since giving birth to a baby bouncing rock this morning, so I don’t need any more pain.
Sully’s so precious.
According to him, Romney “kicked ass”. And Perry is a “W clone” that’s going to put voters off.
Excuse me? When were Republicans ever put off by Dubya? Even when the wheels came off the country, he could count on the 27 percenters. Goopers love them a crazy Texas redneck.
Yes he is & no he doesn’t. Some libertarians — well, Dave Weigel, whose word I’m willing to take on this topic — complain that the media unfairly favor single-digit no-chancers like Cain and Santorum over Johnson, carefully re-drawing their debate standards to keep Ron Paul (Cranky Old Fart with His Sweaty Nerd Supporters) as the big-media representative of those wacky, wacky libertarians. The media rebuttal, assuming they paid attention to non-billionaire libertarians, would probably be that Paul/Cain/Santorum draw valuable consumer eyeballs, unlike that snoozer from the mountains, and preferencing the most commoditizable candidates is extremely libetarian!
@J. Michael Neal:
I have no doubt that Romney would sign every piece of crazy, wingnut legislation that crossed his desk.
@Cat Lady: #61
Oh, my. You might have something there.
@hells littlest angel:
Not sure about Ponzi schemes but evidently quantative easing is.
I like this analysis. Probably because I agree with it.
How Rick Perry Won the Debate
There is an Urban Dictionary definition of the phrase beyond “hot air”. Not gonna suggest you look up anything on Urban Dictionary — just sayin’.
Poverty. To Republicans of Perry’s ilk, if being poor’s not a capital offense, it should be. The GOP War on Poverty is a shootin’ war!
Don’t forget poor Buddy Roemer.
@lamh32: I’d go with that. Romney on substance, Perry on style. And the GOP doesn’t want substance.
I think the Mayans were most definitely on to something. It’s on.
@Cacti: Exactly, it doesn’t matter if Perry or Romney is sitting in the White House. Romney isn’t going to not sign bat-shit crazy legislation coming from a bat-shit crazy GOP controlled Congress.
Yeah, I did a doubletake. I couldn’t believe that’s what they were applauding.
Brian Williams was pretty weak, not following up – the point was executing an INNOCENT man, not bringing justice.
1. Perry the Luddite should avoid the topic of science altogether, and particularly equate himself with Galileo. “Well, it took a while for people to come around to his point of view, too” Sure, Perry, but a) Galileo was right, and b) geocentrism didn’t threaten the earth if he was wrong.
2. Strongest point against Perry was the vaccine issue. I suspect it’ll come up many times again. Maybe next time they’ll even get into the second half of the story – Perry’s close ties with and contributions from Merck, the manufacturer of the vaccine.
Odie Hugh Manatee
At one time, not long ago, a politician would say the same thing Perry did but would use a completely different way of saying it. They would express it in a way that didn’t make the audience (viewing or attending) feel uncomfortable or make them (the politician and the spectators) look bloodthirsty.
Not any more. Now they feel free to loudly and proudly feed the obvious blood lust of their supporters, appealing to their baser instincts in the pursuit of electoral victory.
What a horror.
My impression as of now is that this election really comes down to two options, to be exercised by the Teahadi. Does the Republican base want:
1) a contest that will devolve into a pro wrestling-esque, operatic, high melodrama, clash-of-the Titans culture war
2) to give the nation a choice between a far right technocratic Republican and a center-right Denocrat
In other words, the Teahadi is basically able to hold the election hostage- for now.
I think that will change, though. It’s still very early. Lots if time for game changing moments.
Yeah, if Rick Perry becomes President, we’re fucked, so don’t root for him to have a chance to become President.
More or less, if statements in favor of secession as governor can be squared with the office of the Presidency by our body politic, I am unsure of national stability.
Treason aside, what Perry was intimating is that a very large portion of America is not, as far as he gives a fuck, his country. It’s populated by foreigners, non-citizens, who are not his responsibility in any way.
I liked Gail Collins’ quip: “Republicans, do you want to trust your nomination to a guy who makes Mitt Romney look clever?”
This. Perry’s just two or three months short of shooting a pistol off in one hand while waving the conferederate flag in the other. Can we all please stop criticizing Obama for reaching across the aisle as a governance model now? KTHX. We’ve Got Republicans To Beat.
This photo of a self-loathing Mittens and perfumed Parry is hilarious.
Should Perry become the nominee, Obama really needs turn to him in a debate and say “I’m wondering, can you think of another governor that looked the other way and allowed an innocent man to be executed?” and then to the audience and TV camera “And all of you would be applauding that act?”
We’ve all been wondering. Congratulations, I guess. Hope you feel better soon. Are you going to share pictures?
Where have you been? He’s already done that.
I hope that you are feeling ok. Those can be very painful.
If you don’t mind, was it the treatment or the diagnosis today….
Drink plenty of water. Hopefully they gave you good pain meds — essential..
Let us know how you are doing.
There’s something really strange and almost creepy about the way Perry holds his hands just slightly away from his body.
Dubya did the same thing. Look at videos of him walking, especially those saunterings down the ol’ dirt road at the Crawford ranch. Normal people kind of swing their arms and allow their hands to at least brush against their body. But GWB always kept his hands and arms out and not touching.
Such odd body language.
Such odd body language.
You really think so? I mean, yeah, that’s a killer (no pun intended) line, but lately I’ve been cynical enough to think that too many Americans simply wouldn’t give a shit. Even if they agreed the person executed was innocent, they’d see it as an acceptable price to pay to make sure we executed enough of the bad guys.
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Its just another “Reality” Teevee moment…
We see the contestants turning over tables, screaming and beating each other up.
It sells teevee and rick Perry is just gliding on that wave.
Its not more complex than that…
Think, election as Reality TeeVee
No treatment. Passed it, I am pretty sure anyways, without going to the ER, this time. I have passed them before, and will again since there were 4 last cat scan, small ones though, but have had several years to grow. This one was much easier than some others in the past. Thanks for asking though:-)
Its the “sign” of packing “heat”
He cANT put his arms down cause he has a gun that he could draw at any moment…
Of the stone? No. I forgot to use a strainer this time. But I was about completely plugged up this morning, couldn’t pee and was headed for the Er, but then it broke loose, and didn’t have to go. Still feel like shit, generally. But the pain and blockage is gone.
Take your pain meds,ok?
Keep the liguids like the doc orders (usually but not always acid — like cranberry)
You got someone checking on you I presume?
@Linnaeus: Obama would be reaching right into the soul of Perry’s base. That’d shake things up, and it’d be the bobblehead roundtable topic for the rest of the election season.
Perry does well by defining the parameters of the debate – mainly by firmly staking out one edge of them and forcing his opponents to define where they want to set the other edge. He can pull them far from their normative stance, or stake his territory right where they stand and force them to move away from it.
That would be one of those moments for Obama. We haven’t had an honest to God death penalty debate in this country in decades. Perry provides the ammunition for Obama to make it an issue next year – and he’d do that through such a statement. It puts Perry on defense. That’s what Obama is going to need to do.
Take care of yourself. And go heavy on the pain meds if you need them.
Crazy vaccine lady prays for the Apocalypse
Bonus motherfucking stumble over the proper voice for Calvinism in English.
I’ll be fine. There are some long time neighbors here that we kind of look out for one another, for emergencies, and such,. if they happen.
Makes as much sense as anything. I was thinking of a slightly more, um, Freudian explanation, but the whole gun thing does the job.
It’s because they’re posing. Reagan did the same thing, but he was better at because of his training in television commercials.
I wonder which branch of the government would have been called in to respond to Rick Perry hinting at Texan secession from the United States in 1881. That would be fun to watch.
I think he should just talk about how Rick Perry was talking about secession from the United States of America a couple years ago and bring up secession every five minutes and how it’s not cool to want to leave America to live in another country where you happen to be the ruler, and in fact we have laws against it.
If you start to feel crappy thought, don’t wait to be REALLY crappy before reaching out.
Bad signs: no appetite, feel cold and clammy, chills, just wanna lay in bed. TAKE YOUR FUCKING PAIN MEDS,
Its just to “give the impression” that he has some some in his jacket.
Honestly, its like they are 10 years old..
I hear what you are saying tho.
Yes Ma”am :-)
@AA+ Bonds: Well, that requires a whole Jed Bartlett debate moment, doesn’t it?
And 30 min later he’s still going…Rosie will be putting him to bed tonight. Maybe kennel…
But he was really on a roll tonight.
I… I’m just… I really don’t know. It’s getting increasingly harder by the day to shake the feeling that this country is inevitably doomed and probably actually deserves to be so. What the hell happened to this country? It feels like living in a giant mental hospital anymore. It’s hard to shake the feeling that the only hope left is to emigrate as far and as fast away from here as possible. Things have gone way beyond absurd and are definitely into the creepy and kind of terrifying realm now.
Big Baby DougJ
That is a great picture.
@Jenny: I know that look! He just farted . . . and it left a santorum.
@Cat Lady: Sorry, but Obama doesn’t just reach across the aisle;he’s moved across it and has taken residence there in pursuit of the independent vote. Or, conversely, that’s where his real political beliefs reside.
Don’t know how much Robert Gibbs speaks for Obama these days but he was on Hardball this afternoon and was directly asked by Matthews , “Is Obama a liberal or a conservative?” Gibbs equivocated and said that Obama is the President of all the people or some such. Matthews again asked Gibbs if the President was a progressive and he still refused to answer. Frankly, I was hoping Matthews would ask Gibbs if Obama considered himself a Democrat. The non-answer to that might have been interesting, given that Gibbs never directly answered any questions. He annoyed me as much today as he did while serving as Press Secretary.
I really don’t get this President. It’s like that most recommended comment at the Chait NY Times piece the other day. The one that Cole posted about. The lady said, in effect, “Is it magical thinking to have expected a Democrat to govern as a Democrat? Instead, what we got was George Bush’s 3rd term.” There was a lot more to her comment and very much worth a read.
George Bush never pretended to be President of all the people. He never moved left. But Obama has spent his entire Presidency moving away from his party’s base. I don’t see that as a good thing for his electoral chances. But, I’m no pollster, of course.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Obama is not a liberal version of Bush. Get over it already. Reality needs you.
Congratulations on finally getting rid of that!
You’re being willfully obtuse about what Obama can do with this corrupt obstructionist House and Senate, and sitting back waiting for legislative victories to fall out of the sky into your pure progressive outstretched hands just shows how much work we, the real Democratic base who support all Democrats has to do. Obama’s conciliatory nature is his best quality in this environment, or it’s going to be the American version of Rwanda. Trust me. Get your whiny ass off your chair and support the best Democrat you can find in your community. Stop with the whining titty baby nonsense. We’re at war now, and we need to be shoulder to shoulder. WE’VE GOT REPUBLICANS TO BEAT. If you don’t think there’s a difference, than just fuck you.
I really wasn’t really paying much attention to the debate, until Brian Williams started to ask that question. I was totally appalled to the audience response of the number of executions Perry ordered. These are obviously people who think death by lethal injection is way too merciful. They’d probably prefer public executions and heads on spikes if they could get away with it in modern America.
The Perry Christianists are jealous of the Saudis and Talibans who get to do public beheadings and stonings. That’s what we’re up against – 11th century values. We’re fighting fear and superstition.
My current best guess at Obama’s TKO line against Perry is ‘I intend to keep Social Security and Medicare strong, unlike my opponent, who wishes to abolish both.’ that hits the Repugs where they live.
The ACA is the biggest step towards a comprehensive healthcare safety net in the US since LBJ’s time. Since when was giving every American the ability to get the same health insurance as their congressperson a Republican goal?
@Cat Lady: Totally agree. President Obama was never as liberal as some progressives perceived him to be anyway. Now however, Obama is our countries only chance of survival (IMHO). I think anyone willing to run as a republican these days will ruin any chance this country has to recover from the devastation left by Bush/Cheney & co.
@Cat Lady: Spoken in language that will definitely encourage one to tack to YOUR point of view. In fact, I am sure you are aware that it does just the opposite. And, FYI, I am a longstanding member of the Democratic base in my red red state,and I worked long and hard for Obama in 2008. It seems to me the whining emanates from you and those like you who seem to be so emotionally invested in Obama that you simply must scream at those who dare to be less than enchanted with his actions thus far.
@slightly-peeved: Most of the stuff in the ACA legislation was lifted directly from Republican offerings back in the 90’s, wasn’t it and from Romney’s health care reform in Mass. So, it wasn’t Bush/Cheney from the 2000’s, but it was from the 90’s version of the GOP. I do recollect clearly that Obama campaigned on a public option and then, as President, said he didn’t get it why so many people wanted it.
From one of those comments at the NY Times there is this:
and this from the same commenter mentioned in my first post:
I will vote for Obama, but unless he actually indicates support for his party and its values, it won’t be with any sort of enthusiasm. Tonight will be enlightening. If he exudes more of that centrist bipartisan ship stuff that was on display from Robert Gibbs yesterday, I will be sorely tempted to tune him out.