Kevin Drum on the new Consumer Financial Protection nominee/sacrificial lamb:
Republicans can get away with this because (a) nobody cares about presidential appointments below the cabinet level, and (b) as I mentioned a few days ago, Republicans are expected to hold lunatic views and reporters simply give them a pass on it. At its core, the press doesn’t really consider this stuff spiteful or petty or partisan or dangerous or anything like that. Sure, we’re being treated to the spectacle of a bunch of constitutional conservatives explicitly abandoning their black letter constitutional duty to advise and consent, but hey. It’s just Republicans being Republicans, and it’s considered completely sincere no matter how crazy it is.
That’s all true, but I’ve been wondering if the next Beltway media move is to suddenly discover that Republicans are crazy and to start a “who’s crazy” witchhunt. I don’t know what would trigger that discovery. It would have to be something that the Villagers care about, like horse race politics — perhaps if Obama started to poll significantly better than Perry, when Perry looked like he had a lock on the Republican nomination? If such a witchhunt and change in the status quo bias happened, the one thing to remember about crazy is that it’s pretty sticky. Once you’re put in the crazy bucket, people stop listening to to what you’re saying, they stop trusting your judgment, and they do so for a very long time.
Ben Cisco
Prolonged public nudity?
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
You mean like Dennis Kucinich? Al Sharpton? Howard Dean? Al Gore?
Face it, for the media, “crazy” is a label best reserved for anyone left of Lieberman. If you’re a righty, crazy only applies if you’re expendable or reasonable.
Dexter
Never going to happen.
ETA. IOKIYAR, also too.
cleek
the debt ceiling fiasco almost got em there. there were dark hints that maybe the crazies in the GOP were playing with something really dangerous. but in the end, the fact that Dems’ were simply present in the debate ensured that the media could use the “both sides are to blame” template.
it would have to be something like a mega-Schiavo.
Redshift
I’m generally an optimist, but if Republicans calling journalists “fifth columnists” and traitors didn’t do it, I find it hard to believe anything else will.
Elizabelle
Unintended, but the first thing that struck me about Kevin’s post:
Headline: The Upside of Being a Lunatic
and there’s your picture of Richard Cordray, clearly labeled.
I know, but that’s about as much news as a lot of people get. They don’t listen; maybe they read the crawl as they’re hanging out in a restaurant or passing through a bank lobby.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Case in point, Rumsfeld being honored by the Yankees for all his great work on and since 9/11.
lacp
Given what’s going on in all the other rings of this circus, I suspect Consumer Financial Protection is going to vanish like a stone down a deep well.
Elizabelle
Seriously and naively:
If we wait for the press to do anything, we are screwed.
If Cordray’s nomination is important — and it is — time to make some signs ourselves and stand outside congressional offices demanding he be confirmed.
Give the press something to cover, although they’re wired for those real Americans, the Tea Partiers.
mistermix
@Elizabelle: I do wonder about the sanity of someone who accepts Obama’s appointment to that job, because they’ll never get confirmed and their confirmation hearings will be extremely unpleasant, to put it mildly.
Matt
Not gonna happen – it might have been possible 20 years ago, but in the intervening time nearly every sane Republican has been hounded out of the GOP. At this point, the “who’s crazy” search will just turn up “every goddamn one of them” and the GOP response will be the usual “OMG LIBRAL MEDIUUUUUUH!” baww-fest.
Some Guy
I am not sure I understand your point; I can imagine many worlds where the Washington Press corps did something of value, even for the wrong reason. But they almost always don’t.
Drum’s point is depressingly true. Republicans can say anything short of actively advocating stabbing the poor with dirty forks (’cause they are dirty and earned it), and it is consider “a position,” a “point of view.” Nothing ever has any consequences attached to it were such views to be acted on.
That something is demonstrably unprovable or easily shown false, or that it would lead to a horrible outcome? Well, now, you’re going a little far aren’t you? Somebody somewhere says different, so we’ll just let it go at that, shall we.
sukabi
the better route to stop this bullshit would be to EXPOSE the beltway journalists for the crazier than dirt GOP operatives that they are… someone’s got to have video of those exclusive ‘we’re the only ones that matter’ cocktail parties they love to attend…
Elizabelle
A graphic that would be great on a sign: proportion of income going to the wealthiest Americans during the 1950s (60s, 70s) and now.
That didn’t happen by accident.
And Cordray and consumer protection is needed for the vanishing middle class.
I’m not that good with graphics, but would anyone here like to try a hand at graphics that are attention-getting, factual, and can be remembered by people passing by?
Han's Big Snark Solo
The only thing the media pays attention to is the wingnuts, so I’d guess the “who’s crazy witchhunt” will begin as soon as Republican nominees start calling each other crazy.
I hope you are right. But more likely the wingnuts will do what they always do: redefine crazy. Crazy is the new “patriotic!” The rightwing’s war on sanity is only possible because of its victory in its war against the English language. And the only reason they won the war against the English language is that media, whose job it is to speak and write, is barely literate.
Citizen Alan
Why do people cling to this preposterous fantasy that something will happen to “wake up” our prostitute slut-whore media? It’s not going to happen. The entire media establishment now functions as a propaganda arm for the fascist death cult that is the GOP. To the extent that there is any difference amongst the various media outlets, it is merely the difference between Fox and the rest, with Fox deliberately staying as far “out there” as possible to give cover to the fact that CNN, MSNBC and the rest are every bit as corporatist, coopted and demonstrably pro-GOP as Fox but simply less flecked with foamy spittle.
MagicPanda
mistermix: So your point is that the media is not doing their job but maybe they’ll snap out of it? Sounds like wishful thinking to me.
jibeaux
I’m in the noh-gunna-happen basket. Unless and until someone has to make a campaign ad solemnly intoning “I am not a witch,”, they simply will not be placed in the crazy basket. I mean, that was the accusation that got the most traction about Christine O’Donnell, and I don’t care how dumb, hypocritical, unqualified, and flat out crazy she was, I’m pretty sure she wasn’t a witch. But none of the evidence of dumb, hypocritical, unqualified, and flat out crazy caught much attention.
Jon O.
Unless, of course, you believe that the President is a secret Kenyan. Or secretly Muslim. Or, if on the topic of Islam, you think building a mosque near the site of 9/11 constitutes “gloating”. Or if you think The Gay is something that can be cured. Believe me, Perry and Bachmann are totally considered crazy now. But if either one wins the nomination, look forward to an election season full of “Will slashing fire department funding help fight wildfires? Views differ.”
Ben Cisco
After reflection, I have decided that the only way the beltway media turns on the GOP is if the GOP turns on them first.
Some Guy
@Citizen Alan: That is my point, but more vividly made.
Political journalism has in investment in a fantasy of process, where the wrangling is always better when its more hyperbolic. It has lost all sense that its (journalism’s) actions affect the climate of discourse and the policies enacted.
An ethic of responsibility for what they put on TV would mean all sorts of things change. Just look at what even CNN does on a daily basis and you have all the proof you need. Journalism has abdicated any accountability for its actions. Shit happens, they are bystanders (except they help create the context which shit happens).
And yes, a lot them want the system to be broken because it makes for better reality-style TV journalism.
We have no 4th estate. Time to accept that.
...now I try to be amused
@Ben Cisco:
By sinking their investment portfolios?
maye
I guess you haven’t heard, crazy is now mainstream.
kindness
If the Beltway Villagers started a ‘who is crazy witch hunt’ you know they would top the list with liberals and Democrats, because the elite Villagers are so darned fair (and nutty those libruls, puhlease)!!!!
West of the Cascades
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I think this is right — off the top of my head I can’t think of any right-winger who has been labeled as “crazy” where that person is now ignored or tied to the crazy by the mainstream media. Even people like Pat Robertson or Ralph Reed are quoted as fairly respectable voices by most media outlets, not to mention certifiably insane Presidential candidates like Ron Paul or Michele Bachmann. Probably the last instance of a right-wing “crazy” label sticking I can think of is the John Birch Society — even the Tea Party, which in my mind is indistinguishable from the John Birch Society in terms of being crazy, retains a veneer of respectability in the current media. Andrew Breitbart, instead of being put in the crazy bucket where he belongs, gets a commenter gig on CNN.
So long as the overwhelming message is that “both sides do it” and there is a Fox News/Newsmax/World News Daily/Washington Times to vilify the left and make the right seem respectable, and so long as the rest of the media is terrified of being labeled “liberal,” I find it hard to believe that anyone on the right is going into the crazy bucket any time soon.
Culture of Truth
What really makes the Beltway mad is when hippies are right about something.
Also if you make fun of them, like Colbert. Then they will have a tantrum in public in front of everybody.
Chris
@Matt:
This.
Fully one half of the U.S. political spectrum has assimilated “insanity” as an integral part of their being. The media can either point that out, in which case, like you said… Or they can simply play along and treat the crazy people like they’re perfectly normal and there’s nothing weird going on here at all, which is what a lot of them have opted to do.
goblue72
@Citizen Alan: THIS. A 1,000 times. The naivete displayed by far too many liberals would be cute if it didn’t contribute to such awful consequences. Our mass media is owned by a very small group of corporations – 6 companies own pretty much everything – TV, film, radio, print.
Good interactive chart: http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main
You think their corporate agenda (and that of their ownership) of low corporate & capital gains taxes, de-regulation, prevention of campaign finance reform, anti-consumer protection, anti-labor, etc. isn’t the agenda of the news outlets they own? You think somehow the news is “insulated” from corporate editorial control? If so, I have a bridge in Broolyn you might be interested in buying. The fix is in. Waiting around for the media frame to change is like waiting for Godot.
Zifnab
@Elizabelle:
It’s too little, too late. The CFPB would have been a great idea in the 80s, during the Savings and Loan scandal. It would have been handy during the 90s, BEFORE people started signing their lives away on refinanced mortgages. But now? The horses are gone. Barn door doesn’t need shutting.
More and more consumers simply don’t have any finances to protect. What is the CFPB going to do? Guard a bunch of empty bank accounts? :-p
scav
Reality shows found that having the crazies in the house made for better TV: Political media have found the same thing (and the house is expanding to include the rest of the govt).
sukabi
@Ben Cisco: and for that to happen, the GOP would have to do something like put them all on a ‘watch list’, or significantly impact their incomes (tax increases — not going to happen)… I just don’t see it happening… for all the GOP’s whining about the ‘liberal media’ and ‘liberal bias’ in the media, our beltway betters know that’s just part of the game and they very cautiously thread the needle with their ‘both sides do it’ bullshit…
Brachiator
. The problem is that the GOP has gone far beyond “advise and consent,” to essentially trying to prevent Obama from governing. So you have stuff like this:
But it is certainly NOT the case that “Republicans can get away with this because (a) nobody cares about presidential appointments below the cabinet level.”
If this were really the case, you wouldn’t have this:
I would far rather have unpleasant confirmation hearings than this slow strangulation of the executive branch by Republicans.
Chris
@Ben Cisco:
Wait.
What?
Hasn’t it already?
bkny
secessionist rick perry should not even be a friggin candidate; but with the ever helpful mainstreaming by the so-called media elites, it’s forgive and forget …
and then there’s magic underwear mittster…
Culture of Truth
Also if the Beltway sense weakness or nerdiness or dangerously un-Beltway thinking — Al Gore’s earth tones, the Dean scream, but they have also marginalized Ron Paul and seem on the verge of doing so with Palin and Bachmann.
Villago Delenda Est
The vermin of the Village will never “discover”, at least not in the published sense, that the Rethugs are insane.
They’re not about to compromise the entertainment value inherent in giving these assclowns a free pass. Because they’re not about informing people…they’re about profit, and profit alone, and that means drama, entertainment, conflict.
daveNYC
Won’t happen. If they toss people into the crazy bucket, that will kill their ‘horse race’ and ‘both sides do it’ stories.
Svensker
@West of the Cascades:
At least the JBS was against the Iraq War and the Patriot Act. Tea Party: even crazier than your old JBS uncle!
sukabi
@Culture of Truth: hey, they’re just culling the herd of *’unacceptable’ candidates…
* the real money boys don’t want to have to deal with folks that won’t play their game… so the actual crazies, and folks with a mind of their own, and the ones that don’t toe the party line aren’t invited to play and are either ignored or blackballed by the media…
catclub
Well, NPR this morning did have a piece on the anti-science GOP, and made fun of Michele Bachmann (and tried to do it much less to Rick Perry for saying the same things).
So it is possible, but not likely, that identifying
the crazy ones (and NOT supporting their craziness)
will come into vogue.
Jay B.
Name a single Republican or super centrist columnist who have been treated this way. A single name.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
I have to go with the group consensus of Not Gonna Happen. Our media overlords drank the Brawndo a long time ago and there isn’t any going back, short of a major societal collapse which converts the figurative news media food chain into a literal one, i.e. from moot to meat.
wrb
@Brachiator:
You know a week or two ago the administration suggested that it could possibly refinance the mortgages held by Fannie & Freddie at lower rates w/o congress, which could add stimulus to the economy, potentially big stimulus, depending on how aggressive they were. It might be about the only substantial stimulus available to the administration w/o new legislation or Fed action.
The acting head overseeing F&F, a Republican, turned them down and Congress won’t confirm his replacement.
That deserves both coverage and protest.
catclub
@Brachiator: “I would far rather have unpleasant confirmation hearings than this slow strangulation of the executive branch by Republicans.”
Why not both? Its a floor wax AND a dessert topping!
eemom
sorta on topic, and back when it all began: Diane Rehm had a gentleman on this morning who’s written a book about the air traffic controller strike in 1981 and how it basically set in motion the decline of unions both public and private that has culminated in the present day GOP’s sick crusade to choke the life out of collective bargaining once and for all.
One of the points discussed was that the air traffic controllers were one of only a few unions who actually supported Reagan in 1980. Sheep to the slaughter.
wrb
@daveNYC:
Don’t let your horse drink out of the crazy bucket, silly.
Mike Goetz
Here’s a nice reality check for some people: only 44% of Massachusetts voters have heard of Elizabeth Warren.
Not have an opinion on: have heard of. At all. In her home state.
No, nobody cares about this Cordray guy, or really the CFPB.
Calouste
@MagicPanda:
The media don’t do the job you’d expect them to do, but they are doing very well at the job they are paid to do. Who would think that hiring entitled, unqualified people who only got where they are because of their parents would be so good at defending the interests of entitled, unqualified people who only got where they are because of their parents?
Culture of Truth
Yes, it would have to be something beyond all acceptable levels of common decency and discourse, like getting drunk and shooting a man in the head and covering it up, or outing a CIA agent to cover up lies to go to war, or admitting to torture, or taking American citizens off the streets and holding them without charges, or widespread illegal wiretapping, or giving troops inadequate body armor, or joking about weapons of mass destruction, or…
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
@Ben Cisco:
Newsflash: They did that several decades ago.
The media’s response was to purse their lips, wonder if the complaints had merit, then proceed to reflexively cull themselves of anything that could be deemed ‘Liberal’ out of pants-wetting fear that they get stuck with the ‘liberal media’ label. All the while the drum being pounded harder and louder to the point that Fox News is somehow the only ‘unbiased’ news outlet out there with everything else being so fucking outrageously liberal that they fall over themselves to worship most GOPers out of hope that it buys them some ‘unbiased’ cred.
Suffern ACE
@Brachiator: Senators are too powerful. So now to get confirmed someone needs to never to have once thought that dirty drinking water was a problem. In fact the only people qualified for government positions will need to demonstrate that they poisoned wells.
Jim Pharo
I think you’re thinking of Democrats. When a Democrat starts to become popular, the GOP will declare that they are crazy, and the press will move into “how crazy is, say, Al Gore (fat, too!).”
But virtually all leading GOPers are crazy — remember the moment in 2008 when the GOP hopefuls were asked to raise their hands if they believed in evolution?
The problem is the unspoken premise: the Dems are good guys, the GOP are not. When that is not said, the reporting looks a lot like “he said – she said.”
Emerald
@…now I try to be amused:
Not even then.
During the debt ceiling mess, I kept wondering when Wolf Blitzer might realize that he personally could lose his yacht if the crazy continued–but nope.
If the media clung to their false equivalencies when the Rs were close to crashing the entire world economy, they’ll never come blinking out into the daylight. They now do actual “reporting” only about natural disasters, and there is no “journalism” attached even to that.
Somebody ought to try journalism again someday. There could be a market for it.
rlrr
@The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik:
Anyone who thinks Fox “News” is unbiased, is too stupid to breath…
Villago Delenda Est
@Jim Pharo:
The Dean Scream.
I said consistently during the dark days of the naughties that the deserting coward could have raped a three year old boy on the White House lawn during the Easter Egg roll, with cameras from all the networks trained on the act, and they wouldn’t even notice it.
WereBear
What will be required is people realizing the “news” is not.
Look at the dropping ratings across the board. Television has gotten more crazed and idiotic as their viewers have. Because their viewers are aging and easily fooled.
The younger generations watch TV less and less; they may be playing World of Warcraft for hours on end, but they are not listening to the propaganda, either.
Our parents trusted Walter Cronkite, and he did actual news reporting. We have nothing like that now; and the trust is eroding itself.
Chris
I think a lot of people do and don’t care. Sure, the news is biased, but ALL news is biased (“both sides do it” applied to the media). What’s REALLY important is that I have a news source out there that reflects MY biases, tells me what I want to hear, it’s only fair. Etc, etc.
Orwell would have a field day with the United States if he came back.
TenguPhule
Here’s a nice reality check for some people: only 44% of Massachusetts voters have heard of Elizabeth Warren.
Fortunately, this would be the part that votes. The rest don’t come to the polls, so their opinions are worthless.
sukabi
@Emerald: During the debt ceiling mess, I kept wondering when Wolf Blitzer might realize that he personally could lose his yacht if the crazy continued—but nope.
there is virtually NOTHING that will get these guys and gals to actually ‘report’ the facts…. and that’s because we are living in a classist society… those at the top (blitzer and the rest of the ‘beltway media’ and the politicians and uber rich) don’t have to abide by the rules the rest of us do… they have a free pass to do / say what ever they want with virtually no consequences until they fall out of favor, or a scapegoat is needed to appease the masses and keep us from getting unruly… 10 minutes later it’s business as usual for them… the business of greed.
Chris
@WereBear:
I think a lot of that is just technological change. We had laptops on which we can do a lot of the things that used to require a TV to do (like watching the news. Or reading it, something that used to require buying the newspaper).
But hey, the Internets are full of horseshit too. How many people do you suppose get their daily “news” from sites like PJMedia?
Dennis SGMM
As long as the non-Fox media continues to introduce even the most lunatic Republican with “Here, with an opposing view, is Republican Congressman Bob Rabid,” we will remain fucked.
It’s that simple.
danimal
I’m usually a cynic when it comes to politics, and that has served me well in my political analysis. But I think most of the commenters here are too invested in their cynicism to see the wisdom of what Mrmix is saying. I think Mrmix is right, the media (especially the MSM types) will eventually discover the grotesque abuse of filibustering all Obama nominees. It just takes a trigger and they will be all over the story.
The story is a good one because: it’s easy to explain, it’s really hard to justify mass obstruction as anything but political gamesmanship, a whole lot of Republicans are complicit in it, and the American people HATE, HATE, HATE this stuff. Most Americans aren’t politically aware, and don’t really care about Beltway insider stuff. But once the obstruction is connected to some type of actual, tangible harm, the media trigger will be pulled and the floodgates will open.
We shouldn’t wait for the media to become aware of this (of course EVERYONE covering Washington knows about the obstruction already). We need to be ‘working the refs’ by connecting GOP obstruction to real world problems. At some point, the winds shift, the media discovers the story and people start to pay attention. And, as Mrmix stated, it’s going to be hard for GOP candidates to wash the crazy stain away.
Redshift
@Elizabelle:
Like this, maybe? (Or some piece of it.)
Ben Cisco
@: No, I meant something a little more immediate.
__
@sukabi:
Closer, but I’m thinking actual targeting/surveyor’s marking. Something that would really make them feel like the undesirables we in Sane America have become. I’d speculate further but I don’t want to be accused of promoting violent rhetoric.
Elizabelle
@Mike Goetz:
Couldn’t you have said that about Michelle Bachmann a few (blessed) years ago?
The media is a problem, but giving up entirely, or just snarking on blogs, is a worse one.
geg6
@Citizen Alan:
THIS. THIS. THIS, motherfuckers.
I despise them all. Equally. As far as I can see, there is not a bit of difference between CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, or FOX. Wait. That’s wrong. FOX is at least honest about who and what they are. The rest are cowards.
geg6
@Chris:
The only problem with this analysis is that there are many, many mainstream news sources. But they only reflect one bias, what one segment of the public wants to hear, and that is only fair to one side. Millions of people who are on the other side have not a single MSM outlet to turn to (and no, MSNBC is NOT a liberal outlet). Not a one.
Frankensteinbeck
The Culture of Truth:
The media never marginalized Palin, Bachmann, or Paul. The media has tried to slow down as much as possible their marginalizing themselves. With Paul it’s reeeeally hard to slow down, because he’s pre-marginalized, so they try to just not mention he’s got, like, 1% support and is terrified of Jewish bankers controlling the world.
Elizabelle
The media is about money.
All about the money.
That’s why former GOP House and Senate staffer Mike Lofgren launched his well-reasoned essay on TruthOut.
http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779#%5B3%5D
A network would have given equal time to Ed Rollins (lotso free time on his hands lately) or someone else to opine that Mr. Lofgren is an out of his tree elitist.
Networks live for controversy.
They don’t live for presenting (inconvenient and — to them, non-remunerative) factual reporting.
Marc
Despair is a fun game to indulge in, obviously. And we clearly don’t lack for cynicism.
Step outside the online bubble, however, and you’re starting to see some changes. The debt limit debacle scared the hell out of the money people; the extremism of Bachmann and Perry is getting media play; the republican position on taxes is strongly rejected by a large majority in opinion polls. This is ongoing; the Schiavo matter, for example, permanently alienated a lot more people than just our host here.
But even if you don’t buy the idea that there are any consequences, I’d respect the “nay” position more if it came with any ideas on how to change the current state of affairs, which is biased towards rich reactionaries in obvious ways. Above-it-all cynicism is not a useful posture.
Chris
@geg6:
Thing is, I think a lot of American liberals actually do (poor suckers) believe in the cult of objectivity and balance and how the media shouldn’t take side, so when they see MSNBC and the like representing something other than their point of view, they just tell themselves “well, they’re just doing their job, which is NOT to just tell me what I want to hear.”
Very much unlike Fox viewers, who believe it’s the media’s duty to tell them exactly what they want to hear.
Legalize
@Culture of Truth:
I think they marginalize Dems who (a) can win, and (b) who challenge the beltway. They only marginalize GOPers who can’t win nationally. The media does the GOP’s dirty work for it in this regard.
WereBear
True, everyone likes to have their world view reinforced. But only the crazy keep on when it doesn’t work.
The Tea Party taking over the House and making with the crazy has been noticed in even my rock-ribbed Republican small town. Awareness has finally seeped in that people like Cantor really don’t care if you lose your house in a flash flood; that they do want to starve your kids if you can’t afford to feed them; that they really are destroying education and jobs.
geg6
@Chris:
Then they aren’t really liberals, IMHO. They are left-leaning moderates, not actual liberals. I don’t know a single liberal who thinks what you said. I know a LOT of left-leaning moderates and independents who think that. Which is why the death of this country won’t come because of the wingnut crazies in the GOP. It will come because assholes like left-leaning moderates and independents are too stupid and lazy to give up the MSM and find out what is actually going on around them.
Rhoda
This has gone beyond the MSM. No one trusts them any longer; and it’s because of that he said/she said crap.
Frankensteinbeck
WereBear:
You really have something, but it’s heavily obscured because the MSM wants very badly to hide this process if it’s true.
Chris
@geg6:
Word, but there’s quite a lot of those “left-leaning moderates” around for stations like MSNBC to cater to.
priscianus jr
mk3872
Isn’t the refusal of the Senate to vote on presidential nominees a breach of their oath of office ?
Citizen Alan
@danimal:
Oh for fuck’s sake! The trigger you’re talking about will be the election of a Republican president, at which point, the entire media establishment will turn on a dime and decide that Democrats filibustering Presidential nominees is treasonous. If Madison and Jefferson could have foreseen the state of 21st century “journalism” — in which most journalists are paid propaganda agents for corporations and the super-rich and conduct themselves like the vapid and insulated courtiers of Versailles — they would have raced to see who could be first to strike “Freedom of the Press” from the Constitution.
Marc
There is a hell of a lot of ideological cocooning across the spectrum. It’s painfully obvious on the left side of the divide too, which becomes apparent if you attempt to swim upstream against a prevailing current there.
This matters, for example, on things like the deficit. It really is incredibly large. Yes, I understand the Keynesian argument. But there are more and less effective ways to spend money, and people are not sympathetic to wasting government money on the grounds that “all spending is good.” The spend-money-at-all-costs position really is deeply unpopular, like it or not. Liberal attacks on Obama on this score seem to pay no attention to overall public opinion, or to any sentiments outside the tribe.
Liberals are wrapped in an echo chamber so tight that they don’t even see the counterarguments. And that’s a shame, because I think the liberal case is better on the merits, and that we’d be more effective if we understood why people feel the way they do without projecting ignorance, brainwashing, or stupidity onto them. Even if all three are major factors :)
Brachiator
@geg6:
Even allowing for personal frustration, do you think that the death of the country might be accelerated by those who fight against their own potential allies? If you really think that left-leaning moderates and independents are stupid and lazy, and you want to insult them, then should you be surprised if they don’t lift a finger to help you in a larger struggle?
And I keep hearing about these magical alternatives to the MSM, but never get a solid answer as to where they are. And by this, I mean solid sources of information, not the left wing equivalent of right wing echo chambers, or boutique or niche crap. But I do acknowledge that a problem here is that the average person, no matter what his or her ideology, is not going to spend a whole lot of time looking for alternative media. If it is not right in front of their faces, if it does not have a recognizable brand name, then it is often going to be passed over.
Big Baby DougJ
This is a very smart post, I also think this could happen.
Brachiator
@Citizen Alan:
Are you talking about the same Madison and Jefferson (particularly Jefferson) who used paid propaganda agents like James Callendar to attack John Adams?
Callendar, of course, later turned on Jefferson. He was a natural attack dog always looking for something to bite.
But this is nothing new, and the current venal press is part of a long , inglorious tradition.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Kevin has another post that demonstrates perfectly how willing the paradigm is perfectly willing to call people crazy but only if they’re on the left side of the debate.
Elizabelle
@Redshift:
Yes. Thank you. Had heard about that graphic.
I am thinking even more simple, though.
geg6
@Brachiator:
As someone who is very active in local, state, and national election GOTV, I never do this to their faces. Or even where someone might hear it. But if I can’t vent my frustration here, then I can’t do it anywhere. And yes, I do think they are that stupid and lazy, but I spend a lot of energy convincing them they are smart and well-informed enough to listen to me and then act on what I tell them. It’s fucking exhausting because it’s nothing but explanations of the most obvious and easily accessible information. But I do it anyway.
Marc
@geg6:
That would be me on climate change too. I try to always be patient in dealing with misconceptions and outright falsehoods.
But, for crissakes, the level of willful ignorance on climate change is just astonishing. Lay people have a better grasp of cosmology or black holes than they do about climate – or at least they’re less confidently attached to ideas that just aren’t so. It’s exasperating.
nellcote
It’s easier for the msm to just bash on the Prez. After all, both sides do it. If they can ignore a plea for sanity from a long time gooper staffer I can’t really see why they would change. Where’s the upside for them?
Brachiator
@geg6:
Point noted.
There is a difference between being ignorant, not knowing, and being stupid. If you fundamentally think these people are less than you are, and that you are doing heavy lifting to enlighten dullards with the light of your more informed brilliance, then there may be a problem here which cannot easily be remedied, no matter how good the intention.
slippy
@Marc: People are susceptible to being told that something isn’t a problem. I’ve experienced this myself. I remember a friend of mine asserting that there was some theory that oil didn’t actually run out — that certain reserves had re-filled themselves (somehow). This friend of mine is normaly very critical in his thinking but somehow got this load of bull in his head and couldn’t get it out.
I really wanted to believe him. I wanted to believe that the disaster that awaits us if we don’t start moving off of oil before we start rnning out of it was just vapors. But, alas a few minutes’ critical thinking and reading convinced me it was just another bullshit idea probably inserted into the propaganda stream by Big Oil or the Koch brothers cause us all to breathe a big sigh of relief.
Anyone who still thinks climate change is a hoax after this last summer needs his head examined.
slippy
@Brachiator:
There are three levels of ignorance. You’ve got just plain adult ignorance, which is not knowing. You’ve got juvenile ignorance, which is not caring that you don’t know.
Then there’s infantile ignorance, which is a complete, shit-fit throwing red-faced refusal to know. And that’s your modern GOP.
It’s like a grown man who’s shat his drawers and is PROUD to demonstrate the stink to you.