This cartoon from 1862 could run in the papers tomorrow as an example of the typical Republican/Wingnut reaction to President Obama’s speech (it would also cover the reaction of more than a few firebaggers as well). This has been the reaction to everything President Obama has done so far, so I see no reason why it would stop tonight.
Cheers
ruemara
*fires up the popcorn, opens a can of zevia*
Elizabelle
Good evening Dengre.
This gonna be good.
gex
OT – why am I not surprised to learn that the neighbor with the “My SUV offsets your hybrid” bumper sticker also hits his dog?
I suppose I might have been able to hear him applaud executions if I’d walked by his house at the right time last night.
Villago Delenda Est
Yup, I can hear vermin like DeMented, Sayshuns, Inhofe, and the rest of the neo-Confederate whine team wailing already.
Fuck all of them with rusted chain saws.
On second thought, don’t. They’d probably enjoy it.
MikeBoyScout
You are correct, but if his follow thru can be as effective as the speech and as aggressively coordinated as his 08 primary campaign there’s a chance he can break the log jam.
Elizabelle
Note that NYTimes has sent out a terrorist-related threat warning alert.
That will give the GOP something to divert attention to.
Baud
You are given the modern folks too much credit. They would take the rope, save their lives, and then claim they pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps.
Linda Featheringill
Negrophobists do exist. I’ve run across quite a few of them.
They don’t seem to be as plentiful as they used to be, though. Nowadays, most people would be willing to accept help from, for instance, a black fireman.
Whether they are willing to accept a black president is another question.
RoonieRoo
That is hitting the bulls-eye.
Elliecat
@gex: Because, like the Jesus Fish eating the Darwin Fish car decoration, that bumper sticker is basically saying FUCK YOU and people who scream that at strangers are the same kind of people who would beat their dogs (is it Freudian that it took me four tries to not write “gods”?) and probably their kids and spouses as well.
AkaDad
If Republicans vote against The American Jobs Act, then they’re against creating jobs and support high unemployment.
General Stuck
But luckily, Obama finally tuned into the netroots and got some gold ole firebagger religion. It was they, that showed Obama the error of his wimpy ways, and found his testicles sitting in a jar on Maureen Dowd’s desk.
Politics is a lot of stuff, the least of which is bad timing. Now was the time to speak in sound bytes, in full campaign mode. It was Obama and his brilliant campaign staff that wrote this script, like the last time they got the first black man elected in THIS country.
Southern Beale
I dunno we watched on CBS and 2 seconds after the speech wrapped they switched to fearporn about some undocumented terror threat. I’m told CNN did the same.
So I think the Modern Negrophobists reaction to tonight’s speech is “ZOMG WE ARE GONNA DIE TERRISS TERRISS ZOMG!!!11!!!ELEVEN!”
Valdivia
@Southern Beale:
i am not seeing in the nytimes site? what is it?
gex
@Elliecat: Indeed. I imagine him a “real American”. He’s not going to let some commie environmentalists tell him what to do. On the homefront, he is the king of his castle and every living thing in it better do as he wishes or there will be hell to pay.
Zifnab
Say what you will about racism, but at least its an ethos, amirite?
jrg
This analogy is flawed. The teabaggers and republicans refusing the jobs plan threaten to drown us all. If it were just hick states like SC threatening to make their own lives worse off, I’d be all for them refusing to take the rope.
Southern Beale
@gex:
Nooooooooo!
Fucking animals. And I mean the asshole neighbor, not his dog. I can’t imagine hitting a dog.
Southern Beale
@Valdivia:
Here’s from CNN … it’s on all the news sites….
Roger Moore
@jrg:
This. It’s as if the guy in the cartoon wanted to grab the rope, but only so he could drag the “negro” into the water with him. I’m sure he’d then blame the other guy for his predicament.
Valdivia
@Southern Beale:
thank you for the link.
lawguy
So let’s see if I understand this. If I say the speech is all show and he knows that nothing is going to come of it, except to bambozle a few rubes, that’s rascist?
If I say that the time for this kind of program was two and a half years ago when the democats controlled both houses of congress, that’s rascist?
If I say he’s a second rate bag man for wall street, that’s rascist too? How about if I say he’s a first rate bag man?
How about if I say talk’s cheap and he has shown that he is willing to talk big with no follow up, that’s rascist too?
But, if I say it is the most brilliant speech ever given by an American president, that isn’t rascist?
Just wanna get the ground rules here.
lamh32
ok, let me understand this, some GOP rep from LA (shoutout!) brought a “protest sign” (more like a piece of paper he printed from home) that said “Drilling = Jobs” thought he was being clever? Or just wanted to get on camera? Or just didn’t have the balls to just say it out loud ala Joe Walsh??
Ugh dude, whatever!
bkny
@gex: try calling your local aspca or does your pd have an animal control officer
Comrade Kevin
@lawguy: It’s pretty obvious you don’t understand it. Also, the word is “racist”
Martin
I am very disappointed that Obama didn’t sign an executive order declaring today Wednesday and yesterday Thursday. That was the most important progressive issue of last week.
Dennis SGMM
@AkaDad:
Not “if” but “when.” They’ll explain that the only way to stimulate the economy is by cutting taxes, privatizing Social Security, and outsourcing the Federal bureaucracy to the Philippine Islands.
aisce
@ lawguy
nah, i won’t call you a “rascist.” i’ll probably still call you a racist though.
and a massive, massive, semi-literate dumbass. that too.
Lyrebird
Argh. I’m sure the Raw Story folks would hotly deny such phobias, but I am quite peeved that this is their line under the President’s picture:
“Obama jobs plan mostly tax cuts.”
I am just reading summaries, but so far that is soooo NOT what I’ve read…
Martin
@gex:
You need to put a “My husband offsets your asshole husband who proudly pollutes and beats his dog” bumper sticker on your hybrid.
biznesschic
My God. This sums up the professional left, and the tea-party.
Shinobi
@lawguy: I’m pretty sure all of the criticisms you made are not actually racist.
The criticisms that the right wing has already made that are racist are more along the lines of “We didn’t appreciate his tone.”
There are many valid criticisms to be made, unfortunately conservatives are not making them, because then they would have to base their opinions and actions on some kind of fact instead of racism and partisanship.
Waldo
Eh, I doubt a white democratic prez would be getting much more respect from the current crop of GOP yahoos. It’s total war, 24/7 with these pricks.
jrg
@lawguy:
As someone who’s been accused of racism on this very site (over “affirmative action”), I know it sucks, and it’s often a bullshit charge.
…but I really have no idea how someone can look at the opposition to Obama, that started the month he was elected, accusing him of things his predecessor was guilty of for almost a decade… Signs depicting him with a bone through his nose. Accusations that he’s a Muslim… Accusations he’s an African national… How the FUCK do you hear that stuff and not come to the conclusion that a lot of the opposition to him is based on racism?
KCinDC
What the hell is this from Howard Kurtz about?
We’re supposed to feel better about the possibility of Rick Perry being elected president because JFK didn’t like LBJ? And this anecdote can be applied no matter how loony things get.
RossInDetroit
@Waldo:
Good point. I’m sure some extra-hate him because he’s black but they sure hated plenty on Clinton, and he was a popular white centrist Southern governor.
Southern Beale
@Lyrebird:
I haven’t read the plan, obviously, I just watched the speech. But in the speech, that’s pretty much what he said.
Marginalized for stating documented facts
Speaking as someone who has often criticized president Obama, his latest speech and 447 billion dollar jobs proposal is outstanding. He deserves huge kudos.
This is the kind of thing I worked the phone banks to get Obama elected for. He needs our unconditional support.
Jade Jordan
Why wouldn’t everyone be excited about endless expensive wars, drones killing innocent people 24/7, Geitner and Summers robbing the poor and middle class and giving it to the rich and bankers, JP Morgan Chief of Staff running things, a Democratic President who wants to cripple Social Security and Medicare; and so many other fun toys in our Christmas stockings.
Shinobi
@KCinDC: Didn’t LBJ once expose himself to a reporter as an explanation for the Vietnam war? Hardly a rousing defense.
Davis X. Machina
Was the speech a success?
Well, if it is, it’s because Finally… The President Is Taking My Advice…
I don’t think we fully appreciate just how hard being The Base can be…
Martin
@Southern Beale:
Well, there’s a fair big of tax cuts in there, but the more I read the more they seem very specific and very targeted. That’s fine. For example, payroll tax cut for anyone hired after being unemployed for at least 6 months is perfectly reasonable.
General Stuck
@Davis X. Machina:
Yuppers. There it is.
RossInDetroit
I’ll be interested to see over the next 2 news cycles or so if the Dems can use this momentum to run the Republicans into a corner & keep the pressure on.
Experience says ‘not very effectively’ but we’ll see.
Odie Hugh Manatee
A picture may be worth a thousand words but a good political cartoon is worth a million.
Good one Dengre.
Marc
@lawguy:
No, I’d say that your mind is closed on the subject of the president, you’re wrong on the merits and ignorant of the alternatives. You’re coming across as a fringe leftist, from the all-important Workers Party brigade. Nothing you said is correct as far as I’m concerned. But I don’t see a racial motive per se.
But I’d also say that we will see racially tinged reactions to the president. And I didn’t see a claim that all negative reactions to the president would be racist. But you do seem to be one of those folks who is much, much more offended by accusations of racism than they seem to be about actual racism. And – guess what? I think those priorities are wrong.
Jebediah
@gex:
Maybe his SUV needs a NAMBLA bumper sticker applied in a prominent location.
Marc
@Jade Jordan:
How useful! A canned comment, written before the speech, ignoring the topic at hand, and immune to rebuttal.
And people in the thread below were saying that folks like you were figments of our imagination. John had your number too…
Shinobi
OT, but the lights are on in NYC for 9/11 http://instagr.am/p/MixDu/
Emma
@Jade Jordan: Jesus, you are either a troll, a Republican plant, or an idiot. I’m calling dibs on number three.
sistermoon
@KCinDC: If Howard Kurtz thinks that there’s one drop of LBJ in Rick Perry, he’s an even bigger idiot than I’ve always thought he was.
Dennis SGMM
@RossInDetroit:
As soon as Clinton was elected the Republicans latched onto the idea that any Democratic President is not the legitimate resident of the White House. IIRC, most of the Village went right along with them and there were plenty of pieces that criticized nearly everything that Clinton did – right down to the food he ate.
aisce
@ martin, lyrebird, southern beale
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/now-its-up-to-congress/2011/08/25/gIQArMIIDK_blog.html#pagebreak
$250b+ in assorted tax cuts (mostly payroll)
$100b in aid to states/infrastructure investments
$50b unemployment insurance extension
so there you go. if doctor evil has mini-me, this is basically the mini-stimulus.
Marc
@Emma:
Why choose only one?
Calouste
@Marc:
It’s not like they are mutually exclusive.
SiubhanDuinne
@Shinobi:
That’s beautiful. Gives me chills.
vera lynn
I really love your posts Dennis.
Valdivia
@Shinobi:
are you on IG, cause I am totally addicted and didn’t know anyone else here was on there.
Dennis SGMM
@aisce:
Cue Eric Cantor insisting that this plan isn’t specific enough.
query
Which firebaggers will oppose the President’s jobs plan because he is black?
Dee Loralei
Did anyone see Bachmann’s rebuttal? Did she go crazy eyes?
Villago Delenda Est
@Waldo:
You’re right, it’s the entire “usurper” thing. The White House is supposed to belong to the Republicans, ever since the reign of Ronaldus Maximus, shitty movie star.
Dee Loralei
@Dennis SGMM: John Mica just said that exact thing! Ha!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Jade Jordan:
So says the person who admitted to normally voting third party, says that they voted for Obama and now claims to regret their vote.
Excuse me, did you say something? No? Carry on.
@Emma:
If the first part of the above is true then you are a winner!
Shinobi
@Valdivia: Nope, that was from my twitter stream. Sorry :-(
Davis X. Machina
@Shinobi: Wasteful of energy, I’m sure, and a potential problem for traffic near three of the country’s busiest airports and all, but damned if I know why they’re not permanent. Goosebumpy still after nearly ten years.
Dennis SGMM
@Dee Loralei:
No matter how cynical I get about the Republicans I just can’t keep up.
Valdivia
@Shinobi:
:(
great pic anyway. I am going to check out that person’s pic stream see if they have any other good stuff.
Shinobi
@Davis X. Machina: I think it is the power requirements.
Marc
@Dee Loralei:
She’s upset that Obama insulted Congress by calling them a circus.
I do see her point; it is an insult to circuses everywhere. Congress is far less entertaining, and far more damaging.
JCT
@Davis X. Machina: What’s really cool is to go down to Wall Street / Battery Park after the lights go on. It’s hard to put into words how moving and ethereal it is.
@Marc: Stop calling us a circus says the wacky woman who looks like she was just shot out of a cannon and behaves like she landed on her head. Sheesh.
Elliecat
@RossInDetroit:
Come on, Clinton was “white trash”. That’s almost as bad as black. I can’t think of the famous quote now or who it was (Broder? Will? Some supposed liberal?) that was basically something about how this hillbilly was coming to trash “our” town.
Davis X. Machina
@Shinobi: Yeah. And migratory birds, but still…..sigh. As a Catholic of a certain age I always see them and think “May perpetual light shine upon them…” lux aeterna.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
The modern negrophobist would demand the would be rescuer bring him a large rock so he could sink more quickly.
That cartoon warms my heart. I especially like the way the artist depicted the bigot as some sort of weasel/human hybrid.
J
@Marc: There’s a political cartoon that draws itself: Bachmann (in clown suit) “he’s calling us clowns!”. Though Marc is right, it would be an insult to clowns everywhere.
Dee Loralei
@Marc: Ha too funny! She’s one of the Clowns still in the car.
Elizabelle
Wal-Mart is bringing back layaway for the holidays. Only offered for toys and electronics. I think they’d be surprised how many people would buy coats or medicines that way, if offered
This is the economy we face
Wal-Mart had to catch up w its competitors on layaway
Dee Loralei
@J: Yea and as creepy and scary as some people find clowns. none are creepier or scarier than the Rupublicans in it.
cg
Awesome image, Dennis. Send it on.
Marc
@J:
I’m thinking big shoes and a bright red nose…
Evolved Deep Southerner
@lawguy: Ground Rule #1: It’s “racist,” not “rascist.” Hope your handle doesn’t mean you’re a lawyer.
Random User Name
@Marc:
In my experience the only folks who get offended at being called out for racism, are the racists.
Most non-racist folks are usually profusely apologetic when it’s pointed out that something they’ve said or done appears to be racist.
Same goes for sexism and most other “isms”.
Martin
@Elliecat:
Frankensteinbeck
Is there a transcript of the speech anywhere? It’s been a busy 48 hours for me.
agrippa
What Obama should have done:
Declared a Committee of National Salvation.
Cancelled Congress and arrested the 535 members of Congress and sent them to an insane asylum in Outer Mongolia.
Announced that Jerry Seinfeld is to be vice chairman of the Committee.
wilfred
In simpler times, i.e. before cheap credit enslaved working people, layaway was a good thing. I once bought a suit on layaway, paying down 10 dollars a week until right near the end when I decided I didn’t really need it after all and got my money back.
The return of layaway doesn’t just mean that things are bad. It also suggests that people are thinking a bit more about they really need. Cheap credit ruined the working class.
The age of mindless consumption is over, however much the political class trembles at the thought. Layaway, as primitive as it might sound to people who grew up with credit cards, demands patience and even a little bit of introspection, two cultural artifacts that we could do to learn again.
kay
@Elizabelle:
I think it depends. If they’re bringing back lay-away because people don’t have easy access to consumer credit, good.
They could actually own the toy when they walk out with it, instead of paying interest on the toy for the next 11 months, until the next Christmas, when they buy some more toys on credit, so they can pay some more interest.
They could make it more respectable. Remember how it was always in the back of the store? Put it up front. I don’t know why they’re ashamed of it.
Jade Jordan
Nothing like a little Obot love in the evening. Yes, I am a troll who worked hard to get him elected and who is realistic about what he has accomplished. I expect this speech to accomplish very little.
barath
@Frankensteinbeck:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/us/politics/09text-obama-jobs-speech.html
Mnemosyne
@RossInDetroit:
There’s a reason that black people considered Bill Clinton to be the first black president, and it was partly because of the disrespectful way he was treated by Republicans and the press.
I don’t think that they expected things to be much better for Obama, but I think they’re more than slightly horrified to see how may people who claim to be on the left are piling on the bandwagon this time.
(Edited for typos)
Omnes Omnibus
@Jade Jordan: Your story seems to vary.
magurakurin
reactions coming in from “liberal” quarters
Megan Mcardle isn’t overly impressed. This quote of hers will have Atrios spinning in circles. He’s always pointing out, correctly, how many projects are shovel ready and just waiting for funding.
Everybody is a political genius on the Internet. The tone in her piece is so condescending, it’s really sad. Obama really can’t get any respect. I don’t know if its racism in every case, some is just the ingrained idea that a Democrat just isn’t up to the job of POTUS, as people have mentioned above about Clinton. Much of it though is pure out and out racism. Hands down.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/obamas-job-plan-more-of-the-same/244804/
SiubhanDuinne
@Davis X. Machina:
I agree with you. I have always found he “twin towers” of light to be the most simple, elegant, moving, and meaningful memorial to the WTC and those who perished on 9/11. I so wish the decision-makers had just chosen to go with them nearly a decade ago.
DonkeyKong
Teabaggerism (aka Negrophobism) in a Nutshell-An interview with the late Lee Atwater.
Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn’t have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he’s campaigned on since 1964 and that’s fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.
Questioner: But the fact is, isn’t it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?
Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”
Yutsano
I smell copulation of rodentia. It smells like Jade.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: I have a small jade statue here. It doesn’t smell at all.
Jinxtigr
What? That’s awesome XD
Chris
@RossInDetroit:
They may hate black Democrats like Obama for being black, but they hate white Democrats like Clinton for being [deleted]-lovers. So either way you look at it, there’s still a racial component.
Yutsano
Your jade statue also isn’t copulating with rodents. Plus the capital letter matters. Also. Too.
Garbo
@Martin: Was Broder ever asked to explain that comment? The imperiousness of it!
Martin
@magurakurin: My city is sitting on $1.2B in infrastructure projects that are already planned and ready to go. Some we have funds for and are starting, some we’ve postponed for lack of funding, some we never expected to have funding now, but could start on soon anyway.
@Jinxtigr: Yeah, it’s pretty specific stuff. There’s a cap on total payroll tax credits any one company can take, with the intention that it be spread broadly. For example, I know a number of bay area companies hiring thousands of people across the country, but they don’t need the incentive so their ability to take advantage of this will be limited.
General Stuck
Charlie says yada yada yada, jobs package, BFD
What about a treats package?
WaterGirl
@General Stuck: i don’t think you need congress for that one. This is a case for the unitary executive. I mean the General.
Charlie says get on it already, Stuck. He’s willing to start using the free faxing option to push you into action, if necessary.
General Stuck
@WaterGirl:
LOL
lacp
Well, Dean Baker, who’s been very critical of the President, has found something in the jobs plan that he likes a lot.
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/press-releases/press-releases/statement-american-jobs-act-worksharing
Bruce S
Alternatively, there’s the modern Negro’s reaction, aka the decent, sane American reaction:
Ben Jealous of the NAACP: Tonight President Obama outlined an agenda – one that is pro-civil rights, pro-human dignity, and pro-American Dream for all. I am proud that the NAACP has been involved in the discussions and work that laid the groundwork for these historic initiatives, but I also know that our work will not end with a speech and a plan.
It will take a continued commitment to see these ideas through. I urge you to challenge your member of Congress to support President Obama’s strategy and to fight to create jobs and combat employment discrimination in your home town.
Together we can reach the bold vision that we have been fighting for. It begins with achieving the “both/and” agenda to spur job creation and fight employment discrimination our President laid out tonight.
NR
@lawguy: Lawguy, don’t you realize that any and all criticism of the president’s actions in office is racist? Sure, time and time again he’s governed for Wall Street and the big corporations over working Americans, but if you point that out, you’re a racist. You need to stop and think about what’s really motivating your criticism of the president’s actions in office (hint: it’s racism).
Martin
@Garbo: Yeah, “Don’t be jacking off on the interns in the most powerful governmental city on the planet. We’re better than that.” And Broder was actually right in concept, but holy fuck did he get in wrong in execution.
Lawnguylander
@Davis X. Machina:
Several times I was riding in a car from JFK back home to the city, rounded the BQE, saw those lights and went, “OOF!” inside. Not that seeing nothing there was easier, but it got easier. Beautiful as those lights were/are, they’d make forgetting harder.
Anne Laurie
@KCinDC:
Maybe’s it just the “Look over there — a jackalope!” response. ABC is doing a much-hyped “special” on the release of the (voice) tapes Jackie made shortly after her husband’s asssination, when the “Camelot” survivors were determined to Keep the
MythDream Alive. It’s not actually news that the only person in the Kennedy camp who hated LBJ more than Bobby (who considered him competition for the Presidential succession) was Jackie (who considered LBJ poor white trash, the lowest sort of populist, and not coincidentally a bad influence on the Kennedy “boys”). I knew about Jackie’s & Bobby’s opinions, back when the tapes were being made, and I was in primary school. But Howie Kurtz is professionally obligated to not remember anything further back than the last election cycle, so he’s happy to tout the never! before! unprecedented! shock! of hearing Jackie whisper that it “must never be forgot/that once there was a spot/for one brief shining moment… “CaliCat
Mr. Obama made a very good point when he said that the jobless can’t wait until the next election to get back to work. The Republican vermin in Congress and the charlatans in the Professional Left HAVE JOBS so they have the luxury of looking down their noses at the president’s proposals. I’m really sick and tired of the petty bullshit coming from these media hacks. At least the president is trying to do something to help people get back to work while all the garbage media can do is sneer.
Ron
Hmm….let me try this again. Apparently Michele Bachmann had her fee fees hurt.
MikeJ
@Ron: Didn’t hear anything from her when Mike Rogers (AL-03) called Obama “boy”.
Villago Delenda Est
@Martin:
That one quotation is why I was sad at Broder’s passing.
Mainly because it was from natural causes and tumbrel ride the asshole so richly deserved.
ABL
Hey Dennis! I’m going to start a funk band called “The Modern Negrophobists.”
You in?
(brilliant title)
Lyrebird
@aisce: Thanks 4 the details!
and to all – this cartoon is apt on so many levels. Racism is real and present, and so is cutting-off-nose-to-spite-face-ism (Cantor, Ryan etc recoiling from anything “Dem”, even when it’s what we need or what they might’ve proposed a few years back).
Thanks BJ for hosting commenters I want to hear from!
Villago Delenda Est
@Anne Laurie:
The competition for “Most useless sack of Villager shit” is of course very fierce, but Howie is a contendah.
Jenny
Hilarious!
lolz!
Bachmann holds rebuttal to near empty audience.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05J05BIcZQcvy/610x.jpg
Dennis SGMM
@Ron:
LOL! If the clown shoes fit…
sherifffruitfly
And “progressives”, naturally, will BLAME that black guy for not using the MAGICAL BULLY PULPIT to save them.
Anya
@lawguy: Hey lowguys, fuck off and DIAF.
lacp
@Dennis SGMM: I’d call her a moran, except they probably have a union and would throw a job action my way.
tomvox1
Having just suffered through the comments of this quickie Dayen post at FDL I can say you are correct about this. And if y’all think I am “nutpicking”: You can’t “nutpick” if 95% of the comments are in the same (venal) spirit. That’s no longer the wacky few but the wacky many. But at least they are pure “progressive” enough to wish for a Perry presidency to teach us all a lesson…
Dennis G.
@sherifffruitfly: word
MariedeGournay
I quite enjoyed the speech, especially when he went after the Republican’s philosophical bankruptcy. He’s in a tough corner: mostly due to the nihilism of his opposition, but also due to some fairly wrongheaded strategic mistakes. (Rule 1 of negotiations, always ask for way more than you think you’ll ever get.)
I still think he should have started far larger when it came to the original stimulus and not backed away from going after Wall Street, who are to blame for the mess we’re in. Would he have gotten everything that he, the party, or I would have wanted, no. However, by not casting the debate in his own terms he did his agenda a disservice.
Of course, Democrats have long had a problem articulating their policies in a way that is appealing and put their opponents on the defensive. For someone who has such rhetorical flair, he seems oddly hampered when it comes to detecting how their language permeates his and ends up lending credence to their batshit arguments. All in all, I think he’s not very good at shaping discourse, which ends up limiting what he thinks he’s capable of. Rhetoric is not merely the art of drawing out an emotional response, but crafting language in such a way that the listeners begin thinking in your terms.
I’m beginning to think that Democrats are at a natural disadvantage because they use politics as means to an end (get that bridge built, get healthcare to people) while Republicans see it as simply an end in itself (stay in office, stymie the other guy so our masters can keep milking away).
Of course that’s just my outsider perspective.
salvador dalai llama
@lawguy: Stop being disingenuous. You don’t want to “get the ground rules here”–you want to inoculate anything you say against criticism, by making your critics fearful of hurting your delicate feelings, because “OMG I don’t want to call someone a racist unfairly!” It’s a weak rhetorical move.
Believe me, folks around here will let you know when you say something racist. Nothing you said was racist, and you know it. Some of it might have some merit–but you pretty much wiped that away with your dishonesty. And your lack of spelling ability. (The little red squiggles under the words? They’re your friends…)
Comrade Kevin
Well, at least NR spelled “racist” correctly.
magurakurin
@Mnemosyne:You are quite correct here. It was Toni Morrison who is often credited with calling him “the first black president,” and it was mainly because of the way he was treated with disrespect.
Emma
@MariedeGournay: I’m beginning to think that Democrats are at a natural disadvantage because they use politics as means to an end (get that bridge built, get healthcare to people) while Republicans see it as simply an end in itself (stay in office, stymie the other guy so our masters can keep milking away).
Bingo!
Often when I hear Obama criticized, for example, when he negotiated to keep the Bush tax cuts in exchange for extending unemployment benefits, I realize that he is focused in actually doing things for people who are desperate, while we tend to focus on either policy or posturing. I disagree with him quite a bit, but I always know he’s coming at it from that point of view.
eemom
I see what you did there.
Anya
@Ron: It’s sad that a lady with such a glorious hair is batshit insane. You would think someone with that hair would be a happy person.
Ron
@MikeJ: You want consistency from a wingnut on that stuff?
Comrade Kevin
@Emma: and some people will simply scream “SECRET REPUBLICAN! SELL-OUT!”
Tom Q
@magurakurin: Chris Rock also got onto the theme early. I remember him saying, re: how DC insiders treated Clinton like a black man — “If Clinton pays with a 5 dollar bill, they hold it up to the light”.
Dennis SGMM
@sherifffruitfly:
Huh? I’ve been following these threads all day and most of the comments seem pretty laudatory. Why don’t you wait until someone actually does criticize Obama for not using the bully pulpit before you go off? This Obot vs firebagger vs progressives vs who knows who is becoming more than a bit tiresome.
If you determine that an Obama critic is wrong then refute that person. Name calling and the identifying of other Democrats as the enemy is a piss poor way to enter an election year.
Villago Delenda Est
@tomvox1:
That means they’re actually neo-Naderites. Nader really fucked the country over in 2000, and I’ll never forgive him for it. He shat on his own legacy with that performance.
Mark S.
Rick Perry’s so tough he doesn’t take any guff from guys in their mid-seventies.
(apologies if this has already been covered ad nauseam)
salvador dalai llama
@MariedeGournay: I think there’s a certain rationalist strain on the Left that has a long history. It’s distrustful of emotion, and thus emotional appeals–and also of rhetorical “trickery.” But you’re dead on when you point out that it’s what our side so desperately needs. Obama had some good moments when he set up the dichotomies of “oil companies/small businesses” and… the other one. The part about people working together to build America was also nice, I thought, as was his definition of basic worker protection and consumer safety as the “other thread” that runs through American history. That’s the kind of reframing we need–and that we should propagate ourselves in our discussions with others.
AA+ Bonds
@magurakurin:
“The infrastructure stuff . . . and so on . . .”
Frankensteinbeck
@Emma:
The idea that a politician might be honestly trying to do the best for the nation is inconceivable to many people. It just makes no sense to them and is obviously wrong.
Comrade Mary
@Mark S.: Jesus, man, warn us that a link goes to Taylor Marsh, eh? (Yeah, I should have moused over the link. My bad, too.)
More pics and analysis from The Guardian here.
CaliCat
@MariedeGournay:
Okay, this is true when say, buying a car, or haggling at the local flea market but this “rule” does not apply when negotiating in politics. In politics, there are many more people and interests at play. The notion that all a president has to due is “aim high” in political negotiations and he shall reap all that he desires is stunningly naive. I wish people on the left would stop perpetuating this myth.
Bruce S
#92 – magurkin…
Megan McArdle is a liberal? Someone should have told her when she started blogging as “Jane Galt.” Megan McArdle is a Glibertarian dickwad and an embarrassment to the Atlantic.
Maybe the “…” marks signified you know this, but I just wanted to clear any possibility of confusion on this lame “pundit”s bona fides.
RossInDetroit
@Villago Delenda Est:
Pretty much Nader’s whole long career as a consumer advocate was based on people taking responsibility for their actions. So he’s not getting off the hook for peeling a few percent off the Left and letting Bush squeak in. He’s consistently denied that he’s at fault to any extent and that just doesn’t wash, by my standards or his.
handy
@Dennis SGMM:
I’m pretty down on Obama for various reasons. One is that he needs to ditch the mushy-middle “bipartisan” stuff and be more aggressive. I saw a fighter tonight in this speech. This is good. I’m really hoping his stance vis-a-vis the Republican opposition has taken a real turn what with a year’s time before the next election. I don’t want a pony–I just want to see the guy do what it takes to stop these idiots from burning the country down altogether.
Nutella
@Marc:
Congress also produces a hell of a lot more elephant dung than Barnum & Bailey’s ever did.
handy
@Ron:
My my, someone must have hit a nerve.
MariedeGournay
@Emma: Yes, I agree completely agree. In that moment, Obama was trying to do something for the benefit of others. A good noble goal. I remember that whole “half a loaf” pragmatism is what guides his politics. However, as much as I respect and admire Obama (the guy’s way smarter, talented, or driven than I’ll ever be) I think his kind of politics isn’t is what’s needed at the moment. I know people are probably sick of the FDR comparison, but his style of Grand Narrative politics what’s essential to address our crisis.
I remember how my grandparents talked about him and boiled down to an adamant belief that “he saved our lives.” I don’t think this was a mere cult of personality, but how the administration met the crisis of the time (and their batshit opponents) with language that shaped the discourse in a way that they could be sitting in the backyard decades later and say without irony how I wouldn’t be here without good ‘ol FDR. (nods silently, asks for a Popsicle.)
Sorry, I’ve been watching all this so long that my rage has sort of flattened out into a sort of shock, the kind that you get after seeing a car accident. I’m just watching and trying to hash out what’s going on, what’s happening, why can’t Obama seem to win when justice seems to agree.
Admiral_Komack
@Mark S.:
I think Ron Paul can take Rick Perry, any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
gwangung
That’s a good rule if you know what you’re doing. It’s not a good rule for most people; asking for ridiculous things will not get you anything.
Yes, you ask for for more than you think you can get—but it’s always something that’s both you and the other side think is feasible.
MariedeGournay
@CaliCat: I love when people who don’t know me say I’m naive. Makes me want to put on a petticoat.
Gretchen D
@Frankensteinbeck: It’s all in the NYT – video and all.
Martin
@CaliCat: Doesn’t even apply to a lot of smaller scenarios. If I offer you a job and you come back at me demanding an amount I deem unreasonable, the offer will be retracted before you even finish your sentence.
Any kind of relationship that needs to last longer than a few hours requires a certain degree of trust and mutual respect. If you indicate that you don’t recognize that from your side in the negotiation, then I’m going to end the relationship immediately – because I’m going to assume that sooner or later you’re going to fuck me over.
soonergrunt
@lawguy: No to most of them. They are racist. They’re stupid, baseless, pissant bullshit from a moral coward. But they’re not racist.
Just so’s we’re clear.
Admiral_Komack
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
Great minds think alike; I thought that very thing when I read his post.
But, then again, I retain the services of the firm Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe.
Admiral_Komack
@sherifffruitfly:
Don’t forget “He didn’t emote enough!”
salvador dalai llama
@MariedeGournay: Good points. Who we want (and need) is an FDR, and who we’ve got might be a little too much Woodrow Wilson for my liking. Wilson was an intelligent, capable president with serious progressive bona fides; he pushed through some major reforms, but seriously dropped the ball by encouraging the repression of anti-war dissent, weak support for labor in his second term (and occasional active opposition, deporting socialist radicals), and poor leadership in the face of anti-German bigotry which ran rampant around WWI. He’s remembered as a competent president, but one with mixed results. But for all his idealism, he was not a fashioner of narrative.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
I happen to be a Negrophiliac, myself. :)
I see. Like there are no racist balloonbagger front pagers.
Your comment is reprehensible and unfounded, Sir. Only the lowest form of lying scum reflexively takes time out of his or her busy day of exhibitionist wanking to accuse progressives of criticizing President Obama because they are racist.
You may expect more harsh denunciations if you persist in your dishonest libels. Good day to you.
.
.
.
Admiral_Komack
@Emma:
The reason I support President Obama is that I feel he is trying to get things done, while having to deal with Republicans (I don’t want to do anything, except say “NO!”) and Democrats (“Hmmph!” He’s not the boss of me!”).
I think he’s done a very good job in two and a half years, and I will be voting for him in 2012.
Yutsano
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: What crack are you on now?
RalfW
I’m amazed, as usual, that James Fallows can stand to share a masthead with other Atlantic folks. Chris Good, who strikes me as an even-less-bright Jimmy Olsen of the old B&W Superman show, thought Obama’s repetition of pass this jobs bill; you should pass it right away was “begging.”
Frippin’ spare me, asswipe! But then, I suppose our young Jimmy Good sees black and brown people out on the streets of his urban decay, beggin for scratch over and over, so the skinny black dude on the TeeVee must be like them.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Ron:
I love this quote from a commenter at TPM:
Blam. Dead on.
@tomvox1: “But at least they are pure “progressive” enough to wish for a Perry presidency to teach us all a lesson…”
That’s mighty progressive of the firebaggers to do so! They so love their cause (of the day).
Admiral_Komack
@General Stuck:
I don’t think Maureen Dowd wants just his testicles…
Frankensteinbeck
@handy:
I wanted the pony. And I got it. The ACA, Finreg, repeal of DADT, saving the auto industry, neutering repeated hostage attempts by the GOP… I got the pony, and I don’t care if he screamed or whispered or gave blow jobs to Sauron to get it for me.
moe99
@Dennis SGMM: same thing happened to Carter. I recall the establishment media clutchng their pearls because the Carters didn’t serve the hard stuff, only wine/beer at WH functions.
Admiral_Komack
@Frankensteinbeck:
But…did you get the pony that farts sprinkles?
If you didn’t, the President’s gotta be primaried! (snark)
newhavenguy
Yow.
Not sure if I should be offended… Not offended, except by reality.I can think of a few historical analogies without going Godwin:the Fire Eaters in the 1850s, the very worst (only the very worst) of the Palestinian rejectionists, any number of Eastern European nativist parties in the interwar period…
What joy they all brought to the world, eh? Never mind that, it will all work out somehow. Fear and hate wins at the polls, and gets you POWER. What could possibly go wrong?
Emmanuel Goldstein,
Nixonland, USA
CaliCat
@Martin: Well said and 100% correct. Again, this idea being chronically pushed by the left that Obama is a “poor negotiator” because he doesn’t “ask for more than he wants” is just plain stupid. As you point out, there a many scenarios where that strategy could be disastrous. And politics is one of them.
Mwangangi
@Odie Hugh Manatee: That does put quite the bow on the whole thing doesn’t it?
Admiral_Komack
@Nutella:
Well, they could call Michelle Bachmann “The Bearded Lady”.
Frankensteinbeck
@Admiral_Komack:
I thought it would be ridiculous to ask for a pony that farts sprinkles. Then Ezra started explaining some of the cost controls and vicious new regulations on the insurance industry included in the ACA and I realized I was knee deep in fucking glitter.
FlipYrWhig
@MariedeGournay:
I’ll keep that in mind the next time my wife does a craft show. Every pillowcase, $10,000! See, that way we’ll probably sell them all for $5,000 each, because the customers will want to meet in the middle.
Jebediah
@Mark S.:
I am waiting to see how the gasbags handle that… ignore it, call it “Texan swagger,” say it’s great news for John McCain… I doubt they will go on much about what a cowardly wimp it shows Perry to really be.
Admiral_Komack
@Frankensteinbeck:
Regulations!
Damn you to hell!
Binky the consumer bear
I sometimes wonder what would happen if no one criticized Obama from the left. Would that upset the delicate balance of 11 dimensional chess strategy if he didn’t have hippies to punch?
How could he define himself as a reasonable centrist if the professional left didn’t weigh in?
Jebediah
Why am I in moderation? I don’t see any bad words in there…
Jebediah
@Jebediah:
And anyway I am completely confused and thinking of a different incident. I am at work and clearly paying too much attention to work and not enough to bloggy stuff. I hope I have learned my lesson.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Mwangangi:
Yes, and it properly accentuates the wrapping paper with the evil-looking clowns on it that it’s wrapped in.
Martin
One below median wage employee should not be able to singlehandedly wipe out power to 2% of the United States, even if they’re trying to, let alone when they aren’t.
We need power grid infrastructure spending now.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Binky the consumer bear:
It isn’t that the professional left is weighing in, it’s HOW they are weighing in. Too many of them believe that they can attract flies with vinegar, the stronger the better. When criticism is loaded with hyperbole and vitriol that is intended to drive down his popularity then it’s counterproductive.
You don’t win by slagging on your guy every chance you get because it only makes him look weak and the other side look better. Push for change and ‘man up’ if you don’t get it when you want or how you want. Don’t go all Chicken Little on everyone, if they have a functioning brain they’ll get sick of you real fast.
@Martin:
So, once again, Arizona fucks it up for the rest of the country?
;)
Agreed, why worry about a terrorist attack on our electrical grid when a single employee can do it by accident?
CaliCat
@FlipYrWhig: Exactly. All Obama had to do was put universal healthcare “on the table” and we would so totally have the public option right now.
FlipYrWhig
@Binky the consumer bear: I have no issue with criticism from the left. The stuff about toughness isn’t “from the left,” though: leftism as an ideology is about justice and equality and giving a hand to the downtrodden, and there’s nothing in there about cracking heads and barking orders. And the left isn’t “the base.” If the left wants to be out there setting the left-wing boundary to the political conversation, terrific; but you can’t claim that idea and then _also_ say that the group of people setting the left-wing boundary are also the President’s most die-hard supporters and that if he keeps betraying them, he’ll lose.
BillinGlendaleCA(aka 10amla)
@Martin:
Including shutting down a nuclear power plant.
Martin
Wait, did Obama just win praise from both K-Thug and Bobo?
Elizabelle
@CaliCat:
Lovely comment at 111. Agree 110%.
Porlock Junior
@Yutsano:
Not crack; he’s just been smoking the wrong sort of weed: Pompous grass.
(If that line seems meaningless, you live where that horrid Argentine weed hasn’t been creating high impenetrable thickets of flesh-cutting leaves. Not too bad an analogy to the effects of trolls.)
Jenny
@query:
This one.
Comrade Kevin
@Jenny: That graphic really was repulsive.
Elizabelle
Some good news from the former capitol of the Confederacy:
Thousands line up at [University of Richmond], seeking tickets to Obama’s event
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/sep/09/tdmet01-thousands-line-up-at-ur-seeking-tickets-to-ar-1295499/
I love that he picked Richmond for his post-speech appearance.
Yutsano
@Porlock Junior: Nope, I got it. Even without the presence of the noxious weed here. I applauded too.
Elizabelle
OT, but Ben & Jerry’s is making “Schweddy Balls” ice cream in honor of the Alec Baldwin SNL skit.
It sounds delish.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BEN__JERRYS_FLAVOR?SITE=VARIT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Citizen_X
@Mark S.: Ah hahaha! Whatta bullying little wimp Perry is.
Oh, if only the headline from the debate had been “Perry Tackled by Paul Bodyguard”!
slightly_peeved
@Frankensteinbeck:
This, with the addition that I downloaded and read the bill for myself. And found glittery bits like this:
I’m surprised the Democrats themselves don’t mention this bit more often. Under the PPACA, anyone in America can sign up for the same healthcare plan as their congressperson. And if their income is too low, it’ll be subsidised. Also, I love that this particular part of the bill was suggested by Republicans as a scare tactic and the Democrats called their bluff.
Yutsano
@slightly_peeved: I can testify that, as a federal worker, the insurance companies have a HUGE incentive to stay on our good side. We’re the largest employment pool in the country, and if they piss off too many of us, they get dropped like a hot potato. So they pay pretty damn good. In fact my insurer has been most cooperative with my demands, and my share of the costs is minimal. That’s the big reason why they want and need the mandate, otherwise they will get killed as for-profit companies. Which I think profits in health insurance are doomed anyway.
slightly_peeved
@Binky the consumer bear:
If the left worked together, and paid more attention to Reagan’s first commandment, they’d have two or three unified voices rather than a thousand competing voices. A few voices coordinating attacks on the Republicans would work better than a thousand competing ones.
If you want to see how this works, study the politics of most other western nations. They’re all left of the US, and their left-leaning parties are all a lot more organised than the Democrats. Or study the way the union movement works in the US. Trumka has power, and can get Obama to change policy, because of the cohesive political body that has elected him leader.
CaliCat
@Elizabelle: thanks:)
slightly_peeved
@Yutsano:
Well, the OPM (who I think manages the Federal workers’ health insurance in the US now) has to provide a plan to every state exchange. If I was to do a one sentence summary of the PPACA, it would be “Everyone in the US gets access to the Federal Worker’s Health Insurance System, with a whole heap of new subsidies and regulations added on.” That’s a big improvement in the US healthcare system regardless of which deals with whom Obama had to make to bring it about.
boss bitch
@salvador dalai llama:
I like President Obama just as he is thank you very much. Stop romanticizing about a FDR that never was.
J. Michael Neal
@Citizen_X: So, would this be a case of robbing Perry to pay Paul?
MacKenna
…And the maddening thing is those fuckers don’t drown.
SRW1
Not that it means anything in terms of negrophobia, but as somebody remarked at Kevin Drum’s blog, Boehner looked much more melanin-loaded last night then Obama.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
wake up
BruinKid
@Martin: Or maybe this:
With a nice big arrow sign pointing in the neighbor’s direction so when your car is parked in the driveway, anyone going by will know who you’re talking about.
:-)
Stuart
@AkaDad: See, the Republicans are on record opposing anything that raises revenue. More people with jobs equals higher tax revenue. Therefore, we can’t put people to work.
lethargytartare
@CaliCat:
it’s not even true in many business situations – at the small manufacturing company where I work, if we highballed every offer we’d never win a bid.
People that pull out this tired trope don’t even understand the world they’re trying to turn into a metaphor for politics, let alone the actual political world within which these negotiations actually take place.
also, what Martin said.
harlana
I thot Boehner last nite, looked like a drunk person trying real hard to look sober. And his face matched the chair he was sitting in. It creeped me out a little.
Cermet
The Sheriff is a n (loud sound of a bell) … somehow, blazing saddles is still appropriate relative to this thug congress and thier twisted relationship to the President … the more things change, the more racism stays the exact same – sick MF’ers.
lethargytartare
@MariedeGournay:
if the petticoat fits…
Frankensteinbeck
@harlana:
As much as I loathe Boehner as a politician and a human being, the video of these speeches is profoundly unflattering. I *like* Biden, but watching the video I realized he has only one expression: ‘Did I leave the oven on?’
Southern Beale
Stupid, evil, or both? Al Franken calls out a Heritage Foundation fellow for overlooking a crucial statistic when he made his case for Voter ID laws … The question is, was Hans von Spakovsky intentionally overlooking the growth of the African American population in Georgia or just too incomepetent to ask the question?
Also, someone named “Hans von Spakovsky” wants to restrict minority voting rights? Call me shocked. Also, Heil.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Oh oh! PUMA alert at post #195. If you want to know how hardcore this HillBot is, HillaryIs44 is on their blogroll…lol!
harlana
@Frankensteinbeck: To be fair to Boner, and maybe it’s just me, but I personally did not think he’s been so particularly orange of late altho people kept talking about it, but last nite, he really did look like he went all out with the spray tan, like he wanted to be especially dark orange for this speech.
kay
@MariedeGournay:
FDR did save their lives. It wasn’t language. It was tangible benefits. Obama won’t save their lives because the safety net that FDR (began) to put in place was in place when the economy imploded. Obama didn’t invent it.
There was no safety net when FDR began. “Some” is much much more than “none”. Of course people were grateful. They went from “none” to “some”.
You’re comparing the president who created the safety net to the president who administered the safety net that was already in place. Of course the two men are perceived differently. If I’m long-term unemployed and receiving food stamps, in 2011, am I going to credit Obama for food stamps? Of course not, nor should I. Did Obama save my life w/Medicaid? Nope. Medicaid was in place when the economy tanked. All Obama did was fund it.
They had nothing and nowhere to turn when FDR began. That single figure is actually, as a practical matter, the president who saved them. The speeches and fireside chats may have been fabulous, but it was probably the food that did the trick :)
kay
@MariedeGournay:
If there were no federal school lunch program, and Obama invented and funded one, Obama would (rightly) get the credit for fewer hungry children during this depression or recession or whatever it is. But there is and was one. Which is a good thing, because it’s a safety net program, and (many) more people took advantage of it during a downturn, which is how it’s supposed to work. But no one is ever going to say “Obama saved my children from hunger” because, well, he didn’t. The connection between this president and that program is attenuated, and based on additional funding. That’s not nearly as persuasive and personal as “your children are hungry, and I have a plan to provide them lunch at school”. They already had lunch at school available.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Admiral_Komack: [Wild Applause]
Cat Lady
@kay:
I just wish that the FDR fetishists would remember that little internment business they like to overlook, and imagine if Obama rounded up all the Muslims in this country and put them in “camps” in Nevada. The holier than thous on the left can be as willfully obtuse as the dumbest teatard.
Dennis G.
@MariedeGournay:
You forget that there are no rules of negotiation when you’re playing Calvin Ball.
kay
@Cat Lady:
I just wish they’d put FDR where he was. In his time. In his circumstances.
I wrote about the insurance program for people with pre-existing conditions here. Initially, it was under-subsidized, and too expensive, but they tweaked it, and I thought it was (now) a good deal. I got an email from someone who wrote “Obama is FDR in this household” (reader had a cardiac condition and had not been able to afford insurance).
That’s a direct connection for that person. Obamacare = benefit. Something where there was nothing. I just think it’s a really important distinction if FDR comparisons are to make any sense.
FlipYrWhig
@Cat Lady: Or, Mnemosyne’s favorite example, caving on anti-lynching legislation in order to get the New Deal passed by Southern Dems.
kay
@FlipYrWhig:
He also caved on poll taxes, because he needed the southern Democrats in the Senate for his economic plan.
It took JFK to push it through and send it to the states. JFK relied on ONE conservative Dem southern Senator to tip the balance and God only knows what he had to trade to get that bigot onboard.
ericblair
@Dennis G.:
The whole “ask for far more than you can get” is a pet peeve of mine as well. By definition, you’re asking for far more than the deal is worth; if you’re not serious, you’re wasting the other party’s time, and if you’re serious, you’re trying to rip the other party off. It may work at an estate sale, but with professional negotiators working with professional negotiators it’s just an insult, or usually a sign that the negotiations are pointless and this is all posturing.
In most of what Obama’s had to negotiate, the counterparty has really been the blue dogs, not the goopers. I don’t think he’s left too much on the table considering the risk of not coming to a deal, and I don’t really think many people could have done much better.
Nickws
@Shinobi:
Yabbut Vietnam was a war JFK was also going to fight one way or another had he lived–while Medicare and Civil Rights were programs that were much, much easier to pass when LBJ became president after the tragedy of Kennedy’s death. These are pretty much established facts.
Anyway, dude, you shouldn’t really be on a leftwing blog ennabling a Villager’s comparision of Crazy Rick Perry to Lyndon Johnson, Jack/Bobby/Teddy Kennedy, or indeed to any non-insane presidents/candidates. Just sayin’.
Dennis G.
@kay:
I agree with you about the worship of a progressive fantasy FDR.
There is a lot to praise about FDR and quite a bit to damn as well. It was FDR who made racial discrimination and redlining of the housing market Federal policy. This effectively locked African Americans, Hispanics and other people of color out of upward mobility through home ownership. It created poverty and ghettos and led to the decay by design in city after city across America. We are still digging out from this massive FDR policy failure that is never discussed. If you think President Obama and his policies are horrible for a progressive agenda–even if all your magical thinking turned out to be true–all of his policies mistakes combined would never have the negative impact of this single FDR policy.
FDR did a lot of great things and he was one of our better Presidents. But he had his massive failures that sold out a progressive agenda for generations as well. And he only started the creation of a safety net–he did birth it whole or anywhere close to perfect. It is a fight that is still ongoing and President Obama is continuing the fight. Health Care Reform was a big fucking deal and as important as anything FDR ever did.
Cheers
lawguy
I would suggest that the right uses racism as a club to beat Obama, but I really do not see them as being crazier about Obama: a conservative democrat than they were about Clinton: a conservative democrat.
I haven’t seen an Obama death list or arguments that Obama personally loaded cocaine for distribution to various points in the USofA. Nor for that matter that the mrs had various lesbian affairs and had a former lover murdered.
The republicans are nuts and it wouldn’t have mattered who was in the White House, if it was a democrat.
Democrats are never elected honestly and must be opposed at all times. And in response democrats like Clinton and Obama will bend over bckward to placate these people who cannot be placated.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
For those who say racism isn’t at the core of Confederate- err, “conservative” opposition to Obama– can you please explain why black Americans so overwhelmingly believe that it is?
I mean… wouldn’t African Americans pretty much be experts in detecting racism?
Admiral_Komack
@lethargytartare:
The Republican Party:
“Running government like a business…like Enron.”
geg6
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
Oh, heavens no. What would those people know about racism? Only white people, especially white males, know racism when they see it. Just ask lawguy.
drkrick
@Cat Lady: Not to mention the fact that african americans were pretty much written out of Social Security v1.0 in order to get votes from Southern Dems.
Cacti
@lawguy:
I never saw demands that Clinton produce his “long form” birth certificate to prove that he wasn’t born in a foreign country.
gogol's wife
@Admiral_Komack:
OMG, LOL (to be juvenile about it)
kay
@Dennis G.:
Oh, I think “FDR” was huge. By “FDR” I mean the collection of political leaders and others who comprise that period. The whole liberal legal structure came about starting with him. We really do “live in the house that FDR built”.
If I could do one thing over again (hah!) in terms of politics in the course of this recession I would sell the safety net. I would remind people who set that up. Not Barack Obama, but Democrats and liberals who came before him. Because many many more people are relying on it, but it’s been in place so long it’s not attributed to any one person or political movement. They needed it, and it was there. Had conservatives won the day it would not have been there. But that’s always a harder argument to make, pointing to the absence of bread lines and saying “we did that. the people who FOX News tells you are horrible and frightening set that up, and they set it up to be there when markets fail”.
But liberal advocates didn’t do that. Instead, they saw a need to say over and over that the safety net wasn’t adequate. I see the sense in that, but, hindsight, I think it was a missed opportunity to give people a primer on how programs like food stamps came to be. These programs that people are relying on as a life-line after massive market failure didn’t appear out of thin air. Liberals and Democrats created them.
Ben Cisco
POTUS’ speech has brought out all the usual suspects: teabaggers, firebaggers, the punditocracy. Did you know the GOP had that many allies?
RickD
It must be lovely to be always right, and be in a position where anybody who disagrees with you is actually a racist.
Idiots.
Cacti
@RickD:
Because afterall, when the RNC puts out an ad of the President photoshopped in a white t-shirt and backwards ball cap, it’s to express principled disagreements on policy.
(They forgot to add the gold chain though)
Admiral_Komack
@gogol’s wife:
I didn’t do it. ;-)
Admiral_Komack
@RickD:
Yes, racists are idiots.
Bob In Pacifica
Of course, there is racism underneath a lot of the GOP rhetoric. That doesn’t mean that Obama’s plan is particularly good or that, even if it were enacted, it would be effective.
Since it’s not going to be passed anyway, he should have at least put together a more effective plan. He should not have proposed paying for tax cuts with cuts to Social Security payments, you know, unless he’s trying to bankrupt Social Security.
Admiral_Komack
“I mean… wouldn’t African Americans pretty much be experts in detecting racism?”
Yes.
As if their lives depended on it.
Admiral_Komack
@Ben Cisco:
Yes, Emissary.
Admiral_Komack
@Cacti:
Or have pundits wonder if Clinton were “really white”.
FlipYrWhig
@ericblair:
Agreed. And the problem is that blue dogs and other business-friendly Democrats _think like Republicans_ on many issues. The blogosphere is intent on representing this dynamic as “caving to Republicans,” but much more often and more significantly he’s had to “cave” to Democrats-who-think-like-Republicans. It’s wishful thinking to presume that Democrats rally to his banner because they’re all on the same side and see major issues in a similar light, or, when they start to balk, that they can easily be brought into line because, after all, they’re all on the same side. Getting _Democrats_ together means moving right and incorporating the kinds of ideas Republicans tend to like — because there’s a wide swath of Democrats who like those things too.
FlipYrWhig
@Bob In Pacifica: Of all things to worry about happening in politics, I will never understand the prevalence of the worry about a Social Security stab-in-the-back. When all the concern in everything else is to pump up the economy and not think twice because How To Pay For It is the last thing anyone needs to bother with, just turn on the damn spigot… then this other note will come in that violates all of those preferences and gets all hand-wringing about long-term funding. We’ll deal with it later. It’ll be politically messy, but so will all the other issues moved to the back burner to jump-start the economy — like how to raise tax revenues — so just put it in the pile with the other issues about long-term funding for the social welfare system. IMHO it’s totally bizarre how people worry so much about one matter of long-term fiscal solvency while pooh-poohing almost literally every other one.
harlana
FDR WAS A FIREBAGGER!!
Black Flag
Three years of Obama – the VERY BEST the Democrats have ever had to offer – has given us:
- $14 trillion deficit
– US in a depression
– ruined economy
– US credit rating downgraded
- ignores the War Powers Act
– gas/food/clothing prices skyrocketing
– 5 wars, one with a record death toll
– foreign policy disasters
– raiding the public pension fund to avoid the debt ceiling
– lost 800+ seats for his own party
- poll numbers in the toilet
- 44 million Americans on food stamps
– Over half the states suing to get out of Obamacare.
– 1 in 4 mortgages under water
- ATF gunrunning scandal unfolding
ANYBODY BUT OBAMA
Dick
Yep, typical democrat of the time period.
Funny how black Americans and most Libs don’t know or understand that minor fact.
Brachiator
@lawguy:
Then you are simply not paying attention.
It’s not an either/or proposition. Yes, the GOP would oppose any Democrat, but with Obama their tactic is to fire up that old time religion of American racism, and the most virulent fools eagerly respond.
Clinton was attacked for his supposed lack of character, but there was never the proposition that Clinton was not legitimately the POTUS.
Matthew
Ah, another intellectually lazy labeling of all Obama critics as racists. I can only imagine how comforting it is to be able to tell yourselves that all opposition to your darling President comes from mindless troglodytes who can’t see past his skin color. It allows you to consistently ignore the issues and simply waive off all criticism without ever having to address it.
Try this one on. I think that last night’s speech was pandering of the highest order, a hypocritical campaign move designed to yet again fool Democrat voters into believing that the President cares about average Americans and their employment status.
Verdict? I’m a bed-wetting racist. Also, I’m probably a homophobic pedophile. All Democrat voters can breathe easier now.
Admiral_Komack
@Matthew:
Glad you outed yourself.
Thanks for playing.
Black Flag
Even Liberal Salon magazine has come out openly calling for Obama not to run in 2012. As has Maureen Dowd, a former Obama sycophant. What racists those Liberals are! Do the writers at Salon and Maureen Dowd herself all wear pointy white hats while they type at their cubicles? Do they burn crosses in the parking lot during lunch? Have they no shame?
counterpoint
@magurakurin:
Clinton as first black president started well before Whitewater and the Lewinsky investigation. As Morrison noted, it started out as recognition of Clinton’s background “single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald’s-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas” and morphed into how he was being treated by the Village and Republicans.
Brachiator
@Matthew:
Odd. No one labeled ALL Obama critics as racists. But I wonder whether some who resort to hyperbole do so to deflect any revelation of their true feelings.
@Matthew:
Well, they say that confession is good for the soul.
Barry
@Martin: “@CaliCat: Doesn’t even apply to a lot of smaller scenarios. If I offer you a job and you come back at me demanding an amount I deem unreasonable, the offer will be retracted before you even finish your sentence.
Any kind of relationship that needs to last longer than a few hours requires a certain degree of trust and mutual respect. If you indicate that you don’t recognize that from your side in the negotiation, then I’m going to end the relationship immediately – because I’m going to assume that sooner or later you’re going to fuck me over.”
Which is interesting, because how have the Republicans acted for the past two years?
Could you please point out that ‘certain degree of trust and mutual respect’?
Barry
@kay: *and* he had LBJ, who apparently was a guy all of Congress feared (joke: they only went to his funeral to make sure LBJ was truly dead).
*And* LBJ still needed JFK’s martyrdom.
Barry
@FlipYrWhig: “IMHO it’s totally bizarre how people worry so much about one matter of long-term fiscal solvency while pooh-poohing almost literally every other one.”
No, it’s not bizarre; it’s deliberately fraudulent.
Barry
@Black Flag: “Three years of Obama – the VERY BEST the Democrats have ever had to offer – has given us:”
Ain’t you foregettin’ yo hero, Mr. All Hat and No Cattle Bush?
Let me guess – you’re a Tea Partier, and had *nothink!* to do with him.
Barry
@Dick:
“Yep, typical democrat of the time period.
Funny how black Americans and most Libs don’t know or understand that minor fact.”
Because we know our history.
redoubt
@Yutsano: This. (Also a fed.) We call it “open season”; when you can change your insurance carrier you get all sorts of
buttkissingattention from insurance companies.Dennis G.
@Dick: The Democrats of the Confederacy are now Republicans. The Party of Lincoln is now controlled by neo-Confederates. The racism travels with the Confederates as they jumped from one Party to the other.
It is a given that wingnuts have no idea of history at all and you are yet another example of that.
Black Flag
How does it feel to come here every day to defend Obama? What has he done?
Economy in shambles.
US troops on the ground in Iraq (still), Afghanistan (still), Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Libya.
Deficit heading for $15 trillion.
Gas/food/clothing prices heading up.
Markets in shambles every time Obama speaks.
Even Liberal Maureen Dowd and Salon magazine are openly calling for Obama not to run.
More people on food stamps than ever before.
And what does Obama do? Golfs, vacations, parties, fundraises. Pretty much abandoned all you who emptied your wallets and devoted so much time for ‘the one you were waiting for’.
Oh, and Obama’s poll numbers continue to tank. Soon, he’ll take the entire DNC down with him.
Keep blaming the TEA Party or me or Sarah Palin or Bush or Reagan or even Nixon if you want. But the blame is with Obama. And YOU supported him.
newhavenguy
@moe99: @Black Flag:
Jesus, who brought the cool guy?
Where did you copy and paste these awesome, devastating talking points anyway? You sound like a 12 year old National Review reader. Or… Jane? is that you?
newhavenguy
(Have no idea how I tagged moe99 in 262, but no, I didn’t mean him/her.)
Mack Lyons
@Black Flag: So go ahead and vote for Perry/Bachmann/Romney/Paul or whoever tickles your fancy. No good’s gonna come sitting on your arse whining about the pony Obama didn’t shove under your pillow.
dirac
Interesting but superficial formulation–predictable also. It’s ironic that those screaming about confederate tribalism are so prone to participate in their own form of the same.
Joe
Mostly just a lurker, but needed to drop a comment under this post.
Really really fucking tired of the racism accusation being thrown around so carelessly.
Yeah, the Jane Hamsher crew is REALLY racist! People who want to stop wars on brown people, stop brown people from getting locked up for petty drug crimes, and stop the president from assassinating brown people…. SO RACIST!
A big hearty fuck you to the person who posted this garbage. And to this website in general, actually. Except for John Cole, who is usually okay.
Joe
I really appreciate being told that I’m a racist. I really had no idea. Thanks.
lambert strether
Since Obama can’t run on his record, you have to say this. I understand.