The almost-party-line vote in the Senate that killed off the stern resolution of disapproval for the $500 million billion increase in the debt ceiling is kind of interesting. I know that Scott Brown is running for his life and has to play Democrat when he thinks he can get away with it, but Bob Corker? What’s his angle voting against this nothingburger?
Also, too: there’s no more consistent blue dog than President Ben Nelson, the sole Democrat who voted for this turd.
Zifnab25
I’m hoping you mean $500 billion. We spend $500 million inside a few hours.
Villago Delenda Est
Yes, I can imagine Richard Wagner lecturing Dr. Evil right now.
Bob
I’m sure he did it so Chris Matthews can spout some bullshit about how “serious” he is.
Jman
Fer christsakes, what a ration of crap. We have a 50-percent chance of another recession and the a-hole republicans want to keep the public agenda focused on government debt. Good thing we still have the resources to help out the confederate state of Texas while their governor stabs us in the back. Obama best continue to try and change the agenda and beat the drum for jobs. Wish the drum was on the top of the Republican parties head orr would that be too partisan?
cathyx
Tell me what vote Ben Nelson ever made that would indicate that he’s a democrat.
Dennis SGMM
From Wikipedia:
Nelson isn’t representing Nebraska, he’s representing his class.
EconWatcher
Cathyx: Nelson was one of the 60 needed to get the health-care reform bill through. As horrible as he is, he’s still better than even Snowe and Collins.
mistermix
@Zifnab25: Yeah, I fixed it. Thanks.
cleek
i blame Obama
cat48
Corker is up for reelection this yr. I don’t know what good it would do to vote against it for him though?? The Hill wrote that Reed threatened to hold the Vote open for at least 10 hrs. on Friday to “dispose” of the bill??
Curious.
Mino
Digby’s Friday post on pollsters’ findings after taking the temp of voters on the debt debacle. It’s really bipartisan–voters hate everybody.
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
Too god damn many democrats are like Bennie. Their are owned by corporations or a small-minded desire to remain in office until they are carried out like Strom and Byrd.
Meanwhile, we have to approach head bowed, hat in hand, and plead for a few moldy crumbs from the big mans table. They pretend to offer us a fair share but, with few exceptions, its all a game to them. We don’t count. Certainly not to the Republicans but now to the Dems either.
So we have to settle for Dems like this because the alternative is worse. Our choice is between a fast, ugly death and a slow, lingering illness.
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
@Mino:
Since the Republicans are “the party of less government” they win from this cynical manipulation of voter anger. For them its a feature, not a bug.
Like rats, cockroaches and flies Republicans thrive on chaos.
Mino
@cleek: Maybe Hubris has caught up with us?
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
@cleek:
Christ, can’t we have one fucking thread without this petty bullshit?
Mino
@Shlemizel – was Alwhite: We can hope Hubris catches up with them. too.
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
@EconWatcher:
Yes, he voted for ACA, but remember that was the Republican counter-proposal in ’92 not a Dem bill. Those with the “R” after their name voted against it because it was required of them by their owners. This gives them something to run against and plausible dependability when it does not work out as well as people want it to.
They would vote against the second coming if Dems proposed it; Dems like Nelson would vote for it only if there was something in it for them.
Hawes
Bob gets confused easily.
He thought a “No” vote meant no more debt.
I, too, blame Obama, but I do think this is good news for
John McCainRick Perry.Linda Featheringill
This was a most depressing week politically. I realize that many [most?] Republicans would be willing to destroy the country in order to gain power. This week it looked like they already have enough leverage to do that. If they manage to kill the jobs bill, how much damage will that do to the country?
mk3872
Speaking of President Ben Nelson … Nelson, Lieberman and Landrieu all played the role of Liberal spoiler during the very brief 60 and 59 vote majority in the Senate 2009-2010.
It is simply amazing that Obama gets all the blame and these idiots skirt by blame-free.
P’ing off libs @ DK & FDL make these Dems happier than a corporate tax cut. But if only Obama had twisted a few arms and used the bully pulpit, am I right ?
wrb
@Mino:
Not surprising, seeing how it was .
Repeatedly the NPR analysts were asked what the effect would be and always the answer was “oh this is really going to hurt Obama.”
Not, “It would hurt Obama if we didn’t explain that the Republicans have done this on purpose and Obama has done everything humanly possible to prevent it…. then it would hurt the Republicans… but what was I thinking, we aren’t going to explain that… The Country Almost Defaulted!… Downgraded!… Obama’s!… Obama Failed Us!”
Cokie would turn any question immediately to declaring how Obama was damaged, entirely skipping the question of who deserved blame. Very weird. if not purposeful, strangely fatalistic. “We know people will just act like idiot sheep, so why bother providing information that some naive optimist might think might cause them to act differently.”
Supernumerary Charioteer
“Rubio (R-FL): Not voting”
“Webb (D-VA): Not voting”
“Rockefeller (D-VA): Not voting”
I can see why Rockefeller (moderate Dem in a conservative state) wouldn’t want to attach his name either way, but Webb is leaving the fray in 2012 and I can’t imagine why Rubio wouldn’t be trying to polish his TP bonafides.
cat48
@Linda Featheringill:
I’m guessing they try to pass something b/c people are very angry at both parties if the polls are right. The GOP will try to make it ineffective, but there’s an article in the NYT today, based on intv with Congress & they have a lot of TP seats in Dem Districts. They don’t know if they can hold the House if they don’t pass something. I have no idea what it might be though. I can’t believe it would be the entire Bill. Also Pat BuKKKanan is on msnbc this a.m. praising Obama’s speech & talking about what good things are in the Bill! I think I’ve entered the Twilight Zone or they realize they screwed the pooch dragging out the Debt Ceiling!
gbear
@wrb: I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Cokie Roberts on NPR is the reason that clock radios have snooze bars.
Linda Featheringill
@cat48:
You mean that Herr Pat approves of the idea? Wow.
Cat Lady
@mk3872:
Here’s the Lieberman/Nelson story from the time. The next time I hear anyone say that Obama didn’t want the public option, didn’t fight for the public option or otherwise could’ve gotten the public option by going around these assholes because there were 60 Democrats, I’m going to kick them in the nuts. IT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
JPL
@Supernumerary Charioteer: I think Rubio missed the vote because of his mother’s illness.
Supernumerary Charioteer
@JPL:
Ah-ha. That would make sense.
cat48
@Linda Featheringill:
Yesterday, he said “it’s a lot like Reagan’s tax cut stimulus!” I fainted…. heh Also2, he’s watching his stock portfolio daily & he gets more agreeable when the Market starts tanking.
How is your Kitty? He had a cute name & I’m too tired to look it up. Is he healing well?
cleek
if only Obama had X’ed, we’d all have Y!
wrb
@Linda Featheringill:
I’ve been thinking that for some time. They think a bad economy will bring them the White House so they have been doing everything possible to prevent a recovery, maybe underestimating the possibility of a collapse.
However this week I got a little more optimistic, actually. It looks like maybe some of realized that Obama might just be able to pin this economy on them. Maybe they had forgotten just how effective a speaker and campaigner he is. So it looks like some of them have developed a case of the wobblies. So maybe they’ll pass something.
I think Obama should immediately follow with a homeland security jobs bill: fix the electric grid, harden reactors & water supplies, repair key bridges… bundle all the stimulus that can be justified on the basis of national security, include nothing that can’t. Let them run against that.
burnspbesq
Tangentially related at best, but check out Felix Salmon’s new toy, which looks really promising.
http://counterparties.com/
Linda Featheringill
@cat48:
Mojii.
Was doing well. Hair has grown in and he was sociable and playful.
This morning he refused to eat breakfast, although he is drinking water. I think that after a bit I’ll open a can of people tuna and isolate him with the goodies. Hopefully, it’s just a temporary tummy thing.
Thanks for asking.
Mino
@wrb: Cokie is an hereditary Southerner. Nuff said.
harlana
@mk3872:
he’s using it right now
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
@cleek:
I actually asked for my comment at 15 to be deleted. I’m not doing well today & that comment was not really helpful. But now I am not as sure about the delete request. Excellent troll job – you got me – congratulations.
harlana
aaaaagghh! anything on teevee besides national 911 self-flagellation?
Linda Featheringill
@Shlemizel – was Alwhite:
Perhaps your snark detector needs to be adjusted too. :-)
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Shlemizel – was Alwhite: You really think someone with the keys reads this shit?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@harlana:
f
o
o
t
b
a
l
l
Chris
@wrb:
Mmm. Carry that thought through to its conclusion: maybe it’s not that they underestimate the possibility of collapse, maybe they just don’t care.
I mean, what’s the problem with economic collapse? That we’d turn into a third world country? Economic elites live very well in third world countries, and they own governments in ways that make even Wall Street envious. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Kochs and Murdochs of the world took economic collapse in stride – if that’s what it takes to restore people to their proper place, then that’s what it takes.
JasonF
I hate the fact that the debt deal was set up to allow the Republicans to make votes like this, because now they get to go out and campaign about how they tried to hold the line against more debt but the Democrats outvoted them.
Cat Lady
OT, but Richard Engel was interviewed by Terry Gross yesterday. It was nice to hear him say, unequivocally, that Iraq not only has nothing to do with the Arab Spring, but impeded it’s coming since the dictators used the chaos and civil war in Iraq as an example of why they should stay in power, which did work for a while. Richard Engel’s a nice guy, but you could, if you listened closely, hear him saying fuck you Dick Cheney.
wrb
@Chris:
I have no argument with that, sadly.
Chris
@Cat Lady:
This is admittedly anecdotal, but I studied abroad in Egypt in the summer of 2008 and I have yet to meet a single Egyptian, of any social class, who didn’t think Bush sucked hairy ass and Obama would be an enormous improvement. The cab driver in Aswan, the guy who ran an electronics store down the street, the Egyptian students at the American University, all the way down the line. And I never started political conversations either, it was usually just kind of volunteered.
Not sure what they’d say about Obama today; I am sure that they’d be strongly inclined to beat the living crap out of any smug bastard who walked into Cairo going “oh, it’s George Bush that made you free!” But what do they know.
Roger Moore
@Cat Lady:
Of course the problem is that the same kind of people who think that the height of domestic policy is to do whatever pisses off the liberals will also think the height of foreign policy is to do whatever pisses off foreigners. So they’ll perceive Arabs liking Obama’s policies as an indictment, not a benefit.
Cat Lady
@Roger Moore:
Not killing them at every opportunity providing more evidence of his secret Muslimness, no doubt.
Ocotillo
@wrb:
This provoked a thought, would it be possible to dump dollars into the defense budget but do the above sort of projects? Since it is politically radioactive for GOPers to vote against defense spending, if you can’t beat them, join them. Dump national security projects such as electrical grid, hell even green energy projects into the defense budget and do them anyway.
arguingwithsignposts
@Ocotillo:
Since our “defense” consists of blowing shit up and waving around big guns in other countries, I’m gonna guess “no.”
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
@Linda Featheringill:
No, even as snark it is just tiresome.
As I said in my request for deletion, I am deadly ill today, the radiation has got me down & I wanted to take it back. But MM decided for whatever reason not to. But even still I am tired of two groups of people here who parse every damn comment to ensure it is of the proper purity of intent. Two groups who seem to go out of their way to be offended by often innocuous statement that they view as either too critical or too kind to BHO.
I spent hundreds of hours working for Obama & dems in 08. I took the day off work (I’m contract no paid time off) on election day to drive 30 miles away to knock on doors of undecided, leaning voters in a toss-up district near me. No only did Obama carry that district we elected a D State Rep & Senator for the first time since Floyd B Olson.
Yet, if I express disappointment in any little thing he does or does not do I can expect to be called a firebagger who wants Obama to fail & hints of racism.
By the same token, when I think he has done as well as possible and say so you can bet there will be a few ‘obots” tossed about. Its tiresome, tedious, pointless, counter productive and a sign of a sickness I had hope confined to Republicans.
This is not a black-or-white world, people are not either with us or against us. People of good will can disagree over strategy and tactics without being the enemy. They can see events and take different lessons, see different potential without having opposing goals. Hell, people can even be wrong sometimes.
Villago Delenda Est
@mk3872:
I don’t blame Obama that much for the debacles of the previous Democratic controlled Congress from getting as much done as it should have.
I blame the spineless blob of goo that is Harry Reid for allowing the utter bullshit of the criminal thug party not having to actually go out, in public, and filibuster everything they threatened to. So they could be on CSPAN2 and be seen blocking action to address this nation’s problems.
Anya
@wrb:
You should send that idea to “We the Peopple” when it launches. You can even create you’re own petition.
Linda Featheringill
@Shlemizel – was Alwhite:
I hope you get to feeling better and I hope that the treatments you are suffering through prove to be effective.
By all means, express yourself. Why the hell not?
Linda Featheringill
@Anya:
and wrb:
The idea of a petition to this effect is quite interesting. I know I’d sign it. Don’t know just how effective it would be but what have we got to lose?
Mino
@Villago Delenda Est: I blame the spineless blob(s) of goo that is Harry Reid (and the Senate Democrats) for allowing the utter bullshit of the criminal thug party not having to actually go out, in public, and filibuster everything they threatened to.
Fixed. They are all complicit.
wrb
@Ocotillo:
Don’t see why not. Good idea.
Anya
@Cat Lady: Where did you get this from?
@Shlemizel – was Alwhite: I am sorry that you’re feeling ill. My best wishes for a speedy recovery. I am sending you all the positive energy I can muster.
Anya
@Linda Featheringill: I think it would get the attention of TPTB.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
Then you need to read up on exactly how the modern filibuster works. The Senate rules were changed quite a while ago in ways that made a filibuster mostly a procedural move that doesn’t require people to actually stand up and talk to block progress. All it takes is one guy in the back raising procedural quibbles whenever somebody tries to call for a vote.
If you’re going to criticize Reid (and the other Democratic Senators) for something, make it for refusing to do away with the filibuster completely when they had a chance. It’s an obnoxious, anti-democratic procedure that has mostly been used to delay needed progress and prop up injustice, but the Senate is too set on maintaining their stupid traditions and their personal prerogatives to take steps that would make their body functional. That’s a criticism that Reid and the rest of the Senate Democrats richly deserve.
mellowjohn
@harlana:
“aaaaagghh! anything on teevee besides national 911 self-flagellation?”
andy borowitz tweeted yesterday that “the media seem determined to help us get over 9/11 by making us sick of it.”
Villago Delenda Est
@Ocotillo:
President Eisenhower got the Interstate system built in part with defense dollars (National System of Interstate and Defense Highways).
Of course, he was a well known soshulist, like Obama.
wrb
@Anya:
Well, then, let’s do it.
Can’t hurt.
What other projects that would provide stimulus can be strongly justified purely from red-meat national security/ readiness standpoint?
Cat Lady
@Anya:
MSNBC.
Tim in SF
“Ben Nelson” is the two word answer I give to the DNC when they call for donations.
Anya
@wrb: I am in!
@Cat Lady: Thanks a million, Cat Lady.
Ocotillo
Also too, one thing we should be able to get out of Nelson is a vote for a Supreme Court nominee.
I think Nelson is toast this next go round though. You know the old adage from Harry Truman I think it was: given the choice between a pretend Republican and a real one, the votes will choose the real thing everytime.
Liberals energy needs to be focused on unseating as many GOPers in Congress as possible, both houses. Democrats will have a tough time holding the Senate as there is so many seats they have to defend.
As much as I would like to see Nelson thrown from office he literally is the lesser of two evils.
Yutsano
@Ocotillo: Nelson IIRC is retiring. So Nebraska is an open seat. I think.
Triassic Sands
@cathyx:
He votes for Harry Reid to be Senate Majority leader. As was pointed out above, he represented the 60th vote for the PPACA bill.
His voting record is significantly less “conservative” than even the most “liberal” Republicans, though he is often AWOL on some of the most important votes.
This would be a very different country if even five-ten Republican Senators voted the way Nelson votes.
Progressive Punch gives Nelson a 44% score on “crucial” votes, which, given that it is less than 50% does raise some questions about his “Democratness.” However, he gets a nice round 50% on crucial votes in 2011. On all votes he gets a 54% lifetime score and 65.5% in 2011. Contrast that with Olympia Snowe, the most “liberal” Republican. On “crucial” votes she gets a 29.3% lifetime and 7.1% in 2011. On all votes she gets a 36.3% lifetime and 27.6% in 2011.
Ben Nelson really, really sucks and he is seldom reliable on “crucial” votes. But if he decided to caucus with Republicans, they’d primary him the first chance they got and he’d be gone.
If I lived in Nebraska (eek!), I don’t know if I could bring myself to vote for Ben Nelson — he represents the ultimate test of the “lesser evil.”
honus
@Villago Delenda Est: I think you mean Robert Wagner. Richard Wagner wrote “Ride of the Valyrie” and died in 1883.
honus
@Supernumerary Charioteer: That should be Rockefeller (D-WV). Being mistaken for part of Virginia is kind of a sore spot with us natives. We stopped being Virginia’s bitch in 1863.