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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2012 / Republican Debate Open Thread, Part II

Republican Debate Open Thread, Part II

by Anne Laurie|  September 12, 20119:19 pm| 191 Comments

This post is in: Election 2012, Open Threads, Assholes

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Because the last one was filling up.

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Reader Interactions

191Comments

  1. 1.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Screeching fucking banshee.

  2. 2.

    Tom

    September 12, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Back and to the right, back and to the right, back and to the right…

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    September 12, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred):

    Screeching fucking banshee.

    Now now, Wolf Blitzer isn’t *that* bad.

  4. 4.

    The Dangerman

    September 12, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I wish Bachmann would have answered the question (the answer under her philosophy is “let him die”; she just can’t say it)…

    …but her getting Perry to admit his price is higher than $5K was sweet.

  5. 5.

    Comrade Mary

    September 12, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Screeching fucking banshee.

    Little-known fact: banshees, like cats, have barbed dicks. You’d screech too, sweetie.

  6. 6.

    cleek

    September 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    there’s another GOP debate?
    and you people are watching it?
    is there something that you didn’t learn from the last one?

  7. 7.

    garbo

    September 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    @dmsilev: Correct. Wolf is more “shouty” than “screechy.”

  8. 8.

    mclaren

    September 12, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Cue the obots screaming “You must vote for Obama in 2012 because ZOMG, President Perry, President Perry, President Perry!”

    Let’s get this clear, people.

    Rick Perry will not be the Republican presidential nominee.

    The guy has called Social Security “a Ponzi scheme” and called it a “monstrous lie.” All Democrats have to do is force Rick Perry to keep repeating those claims, and he goes down in flames.

    Even the most hardened far-right Tea Party fanatic is not going to vote for a presidential candidate who wants to end social security.

    Ain’t gonna happen.

    Don’t waste our time citing the polls showing Rick Perry in the lead. This time in the 2007-8 election cycle, all the polls shows Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton in the lead.

    Americans have had it with Dubya. They’re sick of him. They don’t want him anywhere near the presidency. Rick Perry is a Texas-bred Dubya clone who wants to shut down social security.

    He has no chance. None. Zero. Perry will never get anywhere near the Republican nomination.

    I still haven’t decided whether I’m even going to vote in the 2012 presidential election, because enabling Obama’s lies and betrayals is more than I can stomach. But one thing I can goddamn sure guarantee you — not voting for Obama won’t give us president Perry.

  9. 9.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    @cleek: It’s worth the price of admission. They are nuttier tonight. The blood lust continues.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    September 12, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    @cleek: I haven’t decided who to vote for yet? :)

    Seriously, no, I’m watching football. It’s more meaningful.

  11. 11.

    Yutsano

    September 12, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    @mclaren: You just declared yourself useless then.

    @Alex S.: Last I heard the Tea Party wasn’t too crazy about any of them. I don’t think anything that happens tonight will change that perception.

  12. 12.

    licensed to kill time

    September 12, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    I think the screeching from the debate killed my wireless connection, just spent the last half hour wrestling with it and now I’m back up but I fear further exposure may nuke it for good. haha.

    Man, these Repubs just lie like rugs.

  13. 13.

    Alex S.

    September 12, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Meh, so I’m watching after all.. but I’ve missed the first 45 minutes. I’m surprised about Bachmann’s attack against Perry and Merck. She will be cut off by the powers that be, her anti-business stance has to be eliminated. And interesting that the ‘Tea Party’ actually is breaking through here. These guys might abandon Bachmann for Paul. Romney and Perry have their own faults from their point of view.

  14. 14.

    lamh32

    September 12, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    @Yutsano:

    thank you. my thought exactly.

  15. 15.

    Bostondreams

    September 12, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “Never to the left, forever to the right.”

    “With our land, cash in hand
    Self-command, future planned
    And we’ll hold to our gold
    Tradition that is old, reluctant to be bold.”

  16. 16.

    Quarks

    September 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    @cleek: No, just following along with the Economist’s snarky and colorful liveblog and Gary Johnson’s drug-infused outraged tweets about it.

  17. 17.

    lamh32

    September 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    I’m not even watching the debate, and I’m already tired of it.

    When is this thing supposed to be over

  18. 18.

    Helen

    September 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred):

    I’ve been watching bits and pieces but I’m thinking of getting drunk and watching the full re-run at 11. How much fun will this shit be drunk? I. Am. Serious.

  19. 19.

    The Dangerman

    September 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    @cleek:

    …is there something that you didn’t learn from the last one?

    Oddly, this time, the debate has been at least coherent in the arguments; sure, the answers are mostly wrong, but the last one was insufferable in its inconsistency.

    Cain, in particular, has been coherent; shock me to the core, Newt, too. Perry is still on the pedestal and not really having anyone knock him off it.

    Edit: Woah, Perry steps on a big turd on state tuition; unforced error, a big one.

  20. 20.

    Alex S.

    September 12, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Oh, tell me more about salad, Rick.

  21. 21.

    Comrade Mary

    September 12, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    @licensed to kill time:

    I think the screeching from the debate killed my wireless connection

    Hey, if you want to do something wholesome and nostalgic, albeit screechy, there’s always contributing to this.

    Remember the glory of dialing up?
    __
    Kids today won’t know the shrill cry of a 9600 baud, or the magical “doodleeedoo” of a 28.8 modem.
    __
    Help preserve our digital history. Join us in recording your best impression of a “modem handshake” sound.

  22. 22.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    @Helen: I quit drinking 20 years ago, you’re asking the wrong person.

  23. 23.

    dmsilev

    September 12, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    @lamh32:

    When is this thing supposed to be over

    Top of the hour, I think.

    Until the next one, anyway.

  24. 24.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Huntsman accuses Perry of treason.

  25. 25.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    @cleek: Some of us are masochists.

  26. 26.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    What the fuck, Latino’s “come here” after we steal it from them.

  27. 27.

    Alex S.

    September 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    @Yutsano:

    Yeah, probably true. The ‘Tea Party’ is just anarchy disguised as conservatism and a lot of ‘Fuck You’.

    Edit: Mitt Romney still talks too fast.

  28. 28.

    Irony Abounds

    September 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    I’ll be anxious to hear from the wingers about how unfair it was for CNN to allow these wackjobs the chance to show just what stooges these people are.

  29. 29.

    Linda Featheringill

    September 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    I just noted: Perry’s suit jacket looks like it was tailored to cover a gun holster.

    Hmmmm.

  30. 30.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    The Rio Fucking Grande is NOT a state border!

  31. 31.

    licensed to kill time

    September 12, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    Ha! Bleeoo is a great name, that’s just what it sounded like (yes, I remember dial-ups).

    eta: workin’ on my impression as we speak ;)

  32. 32.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred): Huntsman has been a real idiot tonight. The Nirvana comment earlier, now the treason comment. Not helping his cause.

  33. 33.

    Irony Abounds

    September 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Huntsman is supposed to be the adult in the room, and he’s showing himself to be a bit of a snide dick.

  34. 34.

    The Dangerman

    September 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Damn, who pissed in Huntsman’s Cheeerios?

  35. 35.

    doofus

    September 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Perry is getting nailed tonight if anybody on the R side is actually watching.

  36. 36.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Now Huntsman wants foreign capital to raise real estate prices….yes! let’s sell America to the highest bidder.

  37. 37.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    @Boudica: He and Bachmann are going for the bomb.

  38. 38.

    dmsilev

    September 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    @Boudica: What is Huntsman’s cause right now? Surely he can’t think that he can win the nomination in 2012?

  39. 39.

    The Dangerman

    September 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    I missed the Nirvana comment; what was it? Treason was nastiest, bu the flip flopper thing was almost as nasty.

  40. 40.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Huntsman is on the right track against a guy who talks up secession, but he’s going about it all wrong.

  41. 41.

    hilts

    September 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    @mclaren:

    Perry will never get anywhere near the Republican nomination.

    Forget Perry for a moment. Electing any of these assholes would be an unspeakable tragedy. I’d rather have a giant meteor crash into the Earth creating an environmental catastrophe that resulted in the extinction of the human race than see any of these goddamn motherfuckers become the next President. All of these Republicans are either now or will become sock puppets of the Tea Party movement.

  42. 42.

    kindness

    September 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Heck with the debate. Cliff notes tomorrow.

    Right now I’m watchin’ the Patriots beat the Dolphins & shortly whom-ever beat the Raiders.

  43. 43.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Newt’s still got his fear panties on, I see. How does he sleep at night?

  44. 44.

    Freddie deBoer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    HOT WATER BURN BABY!

  45. 45.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    @mclaren:

    Better get the meds upped, Mc, because you sound crazier than Palin.

  46. 46.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    @The Dangerman: It was weird, he made some reference to “was your book written by Cobain.” I’m old so I didn’t get it.

  47. 47.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    @The Dangerman: It was so obscure, I can’t even remember what it was.

  48. 48.

    Bostondreams

    September 12, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    @kindness:

    Please do not say such things until the last second has ticked away.

    Go Pats.

  49. 49.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Paul thinks WWII was the “last war”!

  50. 50.

    butler

    September 12, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    @mclaren: Even assuming you’re right about Perry (which is a hell of a lot to assume), you would prefer a President Romney?

    Let me rephrase that: you want ANY Republican making the next 1,2,3, even 4 appointments to the Supreme Court? You want the executive pivot point for all legislation for the next 4 to 8 years to swing radically to the right? Are you naive or just too cool to be bothered with political reality?

    Rather burn the world down than not get your way 100%? Sounds a lot like a teabagger to me.

  51. 51.

    MikeJ

    September 12, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    If Mr. Bean weren’t on Top Gear I might watch the debate.

  52. 52.

    doofus

    September 12, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    @mclaren: Gonna vote for Nader?

  53. 53.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    We were attacked for our freedoms!

  54. 54.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Santorum is now accusing Paul of parroting Osama Bin Laden. There is a certain air of trapped rats devouring each other on the stage.

  55. 55.

    licensed to kill time

    September 12, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    @The Dangerman: He said about his book “I don’t know if Kurt Cobain wrote it or what” and it fell flat cuz I doubt anybody there knows who the hell Kurt Cobain is.

  56. 56.

    dmsilev

    September 12, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred):

    Paul thinks WWII was the “last war”!

    Good thing McCain isn’t running this time round. He’d have interrupted with “You forgot the Punic Wars”.

  57. 57.

    dslak

    September 12, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    As someone who’s sponsored an immigrant, Bachmann’s claims are complete bullshit. People aren’t allowed into the country unless they can show demonstrable ability to support themselves, or prove support from a sponsor in the US. And fuck her for conflating liberalized immigration laws, which ended discrimination against Asians, and illegal immigration across the Southern US border.

  58. 58.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    @dmsilev: That’s phunny!

  59. 59.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Shorter Huntsman :”Fuck you, Afghan woman, but America will shine shinily. So you can feel better, in a shiny sort of way”.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    September 12, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    To be fair to Huntsman, “Smells Like Teen Spirit” was all about the impact of Social Security’s impending insolvency on young people.

  61. 61.

    lamh32

    September 12, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    and paul gets booed by crowd for saying not all muslims are jihadist…WOW CNN should be so proud of themselves.

  62. 62.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    @dslak: Hey, no jumpin around threads!

  63. 63.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    What would they add to the White House? A gallows in the Rose Garden?

  64. 64.

    Felinious Wench

    September 12, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    My calm, logical, rational, unemotional Poly Sci and Economics teacher husband is yelling at the TV and gnawing the furniture.

  65. 65.

    The Dangerman

    September 12, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    OK, check one of my earlier comments; coherency went of the rails with Santorum and Paul and then Afghanistan. Was there an answer in there someplace?

    I don’t get the Cobain reference; I’ll go find a transcript.

    Edit: I thought the Perry title was Fed Up or similar; it was No Apology? OK, that makes sense now.

  66. 66.

    Bostondreams

    September 12, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred):

    Paul thinks WWII was the “last war”!”

    Well, maybe it is the history/government teacher in me, but technically, he is correct. The last officially declared war in our history is World War II.

    Just saying. I don’t know the context. Too busy watching Team Brady.

    Edit: posted too late. Alas.

  67. 67.

    0whole1

    September 12, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    So…cheering someone dying because they can’t afford insurance… Too much? Too soon?

  68. 68.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    @The Dangerman: It was in reference to Perry’s book.

  69. 69.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    @efgoldman: You mean Hawkeye and BJ weren’t in a real war?

  70. 70.

    Linda Featheringill

    September 12, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Enough of this. I’m gone.

    Night all.

  71. 71.

    Alex S.

    September 12, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    I love how, just for a few short moments, glimpses of sanity break through whenever the candidates are under pressure. It shows that all of this is just a necessary act to appease the crazy-people. Also, now even the Republicans don’t want to stay in Afghanistan anymore. Times have changed since the days of McCain and the 100-year-presence in Afghanistan.

  72. 72.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    @Bostondreams: How about all you historians skip telling this Vietnam vet about what “technically” was a war, ok?

  73. 73.

    Cacti

    September 12, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Perry’s another Texas dim wit.

    Romney’s privileged rich, born with a diamond crusted spoon up his ass (that’s why he always seems so awkward).

    But tell me, does anyone here think there would be more than a thimble’s worth of difference between the legislation they’d sign as POTUS?

  74. 74.

    dslak

    September 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred): Anne essentially ended the thread while I was writing my post!

  75. 75.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Romney wants Winston Churchill’s bust. Is teat-sucking in prospect?

  76. 76.

    Boudica

    September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    It’s over!!!

  77. 77.

    butler

    September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    And Romney revives the zombie lie about Obama removing Churchill’s bust from the White House. He’s learning how to pander to these idiots.

  78. 78.

    hilts

    September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Wolf Blitzer is one of the cruelest insults to journalism.

  79. 79.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    @dslak: I was kiddin.

  80. 80.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    @Cacti:

    Hard to say, but I am pretty sure that their signatures would all begin and end with X.

  81. 81.

    jon

    September 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    WWII was the last war if you’re like Ron Paul and you insist that Congress is the one to declare war. Not a radical prospect, that. It’s actually in the Constitution.

  82. 82.

    Anya

    September 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    The Afghan teahadist woman didn’t get any love from Huntsman. That was cold, man.

  83. 83.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred): It occurred to me that you might have a view as to the reality of that particular excursion, which sure as hell seemed like a real war to me, and I just saw it on the TV.

  84. 84.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    @jon: And just how many fucking people here do you think don’t know that?

  85. 85.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    @Anya:

    But America will shine, shine, shine.

    Jon Huntsman, The Shining, coming to movie theaters near you.

  86. 86.

    Bostondreams

    September 12, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred):

    Sorry, didn’t mean to offend.

  87. 87.

    Suffern ACE

    September 12, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    @Cacti: Not at all.

    ETA: Not at all meaning there are not any significant differences within the Republicans that actually matter. Look at what they are like in the House and Senate. Anyway, Paul and Huntsman MIGHT not rush us into the big war against Islam that the audience feels was denied them.

  88. 88.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    \@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): And he was talking about building aircraft to fight the “last war. But don’t let me get in the way.

  89. 89.

    butler

    September 12, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred): Possibly the person who was nitpicking the Constitutional nitpicker Paul about what the “last war” was?

  90. 90.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    @Bostondreams: Nah, wasn’t anyone in particular.

  91. 91.

    mclaren

    September 12, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    @butler:

    Even assuming you’re right about Perry (which is a hell of a lot to assume), you would prefer a President Romney?

    The crackpots have come out in force tonight. For the umpteenth time…Romney is a Mormon. To the fundamentalist evangelical Christians who form the base of the Republican party, Mormonism is equivalent to a Satanic cult, so Romney has zero chance of getting the nomination.

    Let me rephrase that: you want ANY Republican making the next 1,2,3, even 4 appointments to the Supreme Court?

    What’s the difference? Obama will appoint the same far-right fanatics to the Supreme Court that Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann would, so what does it matter?

    You want the executive pivot point for all legislation for the next 4 to 8 years to swing radically to the right?

    No, I certainly don’t, and that’s why I’m not going to vote for Obama. Barack Obama is going to offer the legislation and make the appointments and propose the crazy far-right policies that the Republicans would propose if any of them got elected to the presidency.

    Are you naive or just too cool to be bothered with political reality?

    Let’s talk about political reality, crackpot: Barack Obama ran on hope and change, and he gave us endless war and more national security state and presidential orders for the assassination of a U.S. citizen without even accusing him of committing a crime and expanding federal raids on state marijuana dispensaries and more giveaways to the Wall Street criminals who trashed the world economy.

    That’s political reality.

    If you’re disgusted by the insane far-right policies proposed by any of the Republican candidates for president, those are the policies Barack Obama has put in place and will continue and intensify.

    Rather burn the world down than not get your way 100%? Sounds a lot like a teabagger to me.

    Typical crackpot reasoning. There’s no middle ground — anyone who refuses to fall to his knees and worship obama is a teabagger.

    You need to take it to the next level, and call me a “fifth columnist” and “evil” and “dangerously insane” and “an enemy combatant” for criticizing Barack Obama. You need to notify Homeland Security and NORAD and Delta Force to detain me, send out a team of marine corps snipers, and, if necessary, put a black bag over my head and drag me board a learjet headed for one of our third world allies so I can be tortured to death, now that I’ve said I’m seriously thinking about not voting for Obama.

    You people are the political equivalent of flying saucer cultists.

  92. 92.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    @dslak:

    Some of those threads executed by Anne Laurie were innocent!

  93. 93.

    Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal

    September 12, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    “I don’t always vote, but when i do, it won’t be for the person who at least acknowledges the issues i care about, over the person who hates everything i stand for.”

    -the most interesting prog in the world.

  94. 94.

    Raven (formerly stuckinred)

    September 12, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    @efgoldman: g’night

  95. 95.

    licensed to kill time

    September 12, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Jeez, Bachmann’s doubling down on the “little girls violated by the gov’t” line in a post-debate interview w/John King.

    She seems to think they get the shots in the hoo-ha or something.

  96. 96.

    Bostondreams

    September 12, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    @mclaren:

    No, I certainly don’t, and that’s why I’m not going to vote for Obama. Barack Obama is going to offer the legislation and make the appointments and propose the crazy far-right policies that the Republicans would propose if any of them got elected to the presidency.

    Yup, because lord knows the two nutcases he appointed to the SC already shows that.

  97. 97.

    doofus

    September 12, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    @mclaren: So, not a dime’s worth of difference between Obama and Perry? Good to know.

  98. 98.

    jon

    September 12, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Sheesh, Raven. It’s not exactly a state secret that Ron Paul is a bit of a stickler for Constitutional issues.

  99. 99.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 12, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    @mclaren:

    What’s the difference? Obama will appoint the same far-right fanatics to the Supreme Court that Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann would, so what does it matter?

    Right. I can just see Rick Perry appointing Sonia Sotomayor.

  100. 100.

    wasabi gasp

    September 12, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Someone better get voted off next week, else this show sucks.

  101. 101.

    Reality Check

    September 12, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    The Rick Perry Juggernaut rolls on. Romney is utterly panicked.

  102. 102.

    Anya

    September 12, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    I wholeheartedly agree with the Guardian’s live blog:

    Frankly, I’d vote for any candidate who would pass a bill that bans CNN from ever hosting a presidential debate ever again.
    _____
    And that’s it, it’s over. Rick Perry retires to bind his wounds.

  103. 103.

    Comrade Mary

    September 12, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Obama will appoint the same far-right fanatics to the Supreme Court that Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann would, so what does it matter?

    Jesus Fuck, mclaren. Huff much?

  104. 104.

    Cacti

    September 12, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    @Reality Check:

    The Rick Perry Juggernaut rolls on. Romney is utterly panicked.

    That might be the first thing you’ve ever written that I agree with.

  105. 105.

    MikeJ

    September 12, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Economist:

    9:56: I don’t see this debate alone changing the running order, but they landed a few blows on Perry, and opened a line of attack against him as a big-government booster and a faux-conservative. Bachmann seemed to get her stride back; she performed well, but her window has passed. She’s running for increased party stature, not the presidency. And Huntsman failed to match the big strides he made in the last debate.

    9:55: That was very scrappy. I can’t say that anyone won, but Perry looked very precarious to me at times.

  106. 106.

    Suffern ACE

    September 12, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    The most important thing however, is that Miss Philippines is still alive.

  107. 107.

    butler

    September 12, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    The crackpots have come out in force tonight.

    I love that my one little post= a brigade of crackpots.

    For the umpteenth time…Romney is a Mormon

    NO, Romney is a REPUBLICAN. Meaning they won’t give a shit if he skullfucks puppies every Sunday morning, they’ll find a way to justify it and support him.

    What’s the difference? Obama will appoint the same far-right fanatics to the Supreme Court that Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann would, so what does it matter?

    Ok, you’re trolling me, right? This has to be a troll attempt.

    No, I certainly don’t, and that’s why I’m not going to vote for Obama. Barack Obama is going to offer the legislation and make the appointments and propose the crazy far-right policies that the Republicans would propose if any of them got elected to the presidency.

    Yup, has to be trolling.

    Let’s talk about political reality, crackpot:

    Yes, lets. The reality is this: THIS IS THE SYSTEM WE LIVE IN. THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN. Its not fucking perfect, and it never will be. Yes, Obama has fucked up. He’s a human being, human beings fuck up. No one who has ever or will ever serve in any office won’t fuck up in some way. Grow up and deal with it.

    Typical crackpot reasoning. There’s no middle ground—anyone who refuses to fall to his knees and worship obamais a teabagger.

    No, anyone who refuses to live in the world as it exists is a hopeless idealist or a fanatic, and probably a little of both.

    You people are the political equivalent of flying saucer cultists.

    But seriously, this is trolling, right?

  108. 108.

    Anya

    September 12, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    @mclaren: Show us on the doll where the black President hurt you.

  109. 109.

    Reality Check

    September 12, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Perry has this nomination all but wrapped up and in his back pocket. Game’s over barring a scandal.

  110. 110.

    butler

    September 12, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Wait, one last thing for Mcclaren: if Perry has no chance, and Romney has no chance, then who’s the nominee? And why would that person be any fucking better than either of them?

  111. 111.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    To me, Romney looks like a boxer who knows he’s throwing what ought to be haymakers – and simply can’t understand why the audience is yawning and he’s losing on points.

  112. 112.

    Nutella

    September 12, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Best thing from the Guardian’s live blog:

    Herman Cain claims that a restaurant is the basic building block of the American economy. He reminds us once again that his experience includes being president of the National Restaurant Association. (Whose national HQ, incidentally, was next to the Guardian’s old office in Washington DC. And the staff canteen was rubbish.)

  113. 113.

    Calouste

    September 12, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    From the Guardian:

    Once again, the lazy attacks on Ben Bernanke are appalling. The trouble is that with that rhetoric, no credible economist would want to serve on the Fed with some of the people on stage as US president.

    Feature, not bug.

  114. 114.

    doofus

    September 12, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    @butler: Yeah, I thought of that question too, but then it occurred to me that I didn’t care what the answer was.

  115. 115.

    Chris

    September 12, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    @Morzer:

    Shorter Huntsman :”Fuck you, Afghan woman, but America will shine shinily. So you can feel better, in a shiny sort of way”.

    Jon Huntsman: Firefly fan.

  116. 116.

    RandyH

    September 12, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Tonight’s CNN Tea Party Express Debate has been brought to you by the “Clean Coal” Industry.

  117. 117.

    Corner Stone

    September 12, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Romney will be the R nominee. I don’t know why this is so hard for people here to understand.

  118. 118.

    licensed to kill time

    September 12, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Perry’s going all ‘tear it down’ on a Tea Party crowd, stalking back and forth on the stage w/a microphone like a revivalist preacher. He just called the EPA a cemetery for jobs, and how we don’t need the gummint coming around here and getting all up in our face.

    That’s the snippet I heard, crowd LOVES it.

  119. 119.

    AkaDad

    September 12, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    The clear winner in tonight’s debate is Obama.

  120. 120.

    Calouste

    September 12, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    Oh sweet Jesus, now Wolf Blitzer is asking what changes the candidates would make to the White House. Really.

    Newt says he’d bring ballet and a chess set. Bachmann wins: “I’d bring a copy of the declaration of independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and that’s it.”

    You know Michelle, stuff has happened in the last 220 years since the Bill of Rights was ratified.

    Of course what she really means and what the audience hears, is that she will bring a sacred unalterable text (the Bible, not the Constitution) to the White House and that she will turn the clock back to before the 11th amendment.

  121. 121.

    Cacti

    September 12, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    @Morzer:

    To me, Romney looks like a boxer who knows he’s throwing what ought to be haymakers – and simply can’t understand why the audience is yawning and he’s losing on points.

    It’s still the Eddie Haskell factor.

    People just don’t like an obvious phony.

  122. 122.

    scav

    September 12, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    So, should all their debates be scheduled on nights with full or nearly full moons for the apparent entertainment value of the candidates revealing their true(r) selves?

  123. 123.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    September 12, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    .
    .
    @Corner Stone:

    Romney will be the R nominee. I don’t know why this is so hard for people here to understand.

    They just want somebody to go Archie Bell and the Drells on his ass –

    Hey
    There’s gonna be a showdown
    Hey a ay ay
    Gonna be a showdown, showdown…

    .
    .

  124. 124.

    RandyH

    September 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Romney will be the R nominee. I don’t know why this is so hard for people here to understand.

    It’s WAY too early to predict anything like that but I hope he is. Obama will mop the floor with him.

  125. 125.

    cleek

    September 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    @Calouste:

    Of course what she really means and what the audience hears, is that she will bring a sacred unalterable text (the Bible, not the Constitution) to the White House and that she will turn the clock back to before the 11th amendment.

    ask her to point out where in the Constitution it says a woman can be president.

  126. 126.

    kimp

    September 12, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    I am still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that the audience was cheering the idea of letting the uninsured die. OMG, what is wrong with those people?

  127. 127.

    rikyrah

    September 12, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    they are some evil, lowlife mofos…the entire lot of them

  128. 128.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    @cleek:

    I would like to hear Bachmann explain how I Timothy 2:12 allows for wimmins to be you know.. presidents.

    But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    I thought she believed in this Biblical stuff?

  129. 129.

    Chris

    September 12, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    @Calouste:

    Of course what she really means and what the audience hears, is that she will bring a sacred unalterable text (the Bible, not the Constitution) to the White House and that she will turn the clock back to before the 11th amendment.

    She will then proceed to ignore that sacred text with the same enthusiasm with which she currently ignores the constitution. (Love your neighbor, feed the hungry and clothe the poor, rich man + eye of needle, etc).

  130. 130.

    JCT

    September 12, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    @kimp: Because they are a bunch of imbeciles that are permanently arrested at age 17. Somehow managed to miss the classes on “there but for the grace of g_d go I” and Christian charity.

    Grotesque.

  131. 131.

    gogol's wife

    September 12, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    Thank you all for watching this so I didn’t have to. I feel I got a kind of Cubist version of the debate, all strange angles and flat perspective but much truer than so-called “reality.”

  132. 132.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Clearly, it would be a sexist blasphemy to actually quote the Bible at her. In fact, I feel outraged at myself for suggesting it. Bad, wicked Morzer.

    I shall now flagellate myself. Tenderly.

  133. 133.

    Valdivia

    September 12, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    @Anya:

    win!

  134. 134.

    RandyH

    September 12, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Romney looked like a dolt.

    Perry looked like a tough-talking cowboy.

    Bachmann looked like an idiot.

    Santorum looked like, well, you know. Santorum. (The link just perpetuates the Google top-ranking status.)

    Ron Paul looked like a foolish old man. And he was booed by the racist audience for suggesting that not all Muslims are evil.

    Newt’s quote of the night:

    I’m not particularly worried about Gov. Perry and Gov. Romney frightening the American people when President Obama scares them every single day.
    (ENORMOUS standing ovation from the racist white audience.)

    What might he have meant by that?

    Huntsman is the invisible man.

    Cain claims not to be a politician, yet he’s running for President.

    Anyone else? If so, I can’t remember.

  135. 135.

    PaulW

    September 12, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Did any of them give Rise of the Planet of the Apes a negative review?

  136. 136.

    Morzer

    September 12, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    I really feel that we ought to try and live-blog the next Republican mass-debation in the voice of Jon Gruden. I feel that phrases like “pressure up the middle” could only bring clarity to this.. intriguing collection of people.

  137. 137.

    Nutella

    September 12, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    I wonder why some of their opponents don’t use the obvious question to Bachmann and Perry: Why is it that you claim to oppose government spending when you have spent your entire career taking money from the government and have never once held a private job?

  138. 138.

    scav

    September 12, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    They be aginst dat dere ebil ebil Guvornmint death panels: they be all for them death panels they be settin on themselves, don’t cha know. Well, the grassroots death panels (so long as the grass is the approved of kind) and the for-profit ones.

  139. 139.

    OzoneR

    September 12, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    @kimp:

    I am still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that the audience was cheering the idea of letting the uninsured die. OMG, what is wrong with those people?

    personal responsibility. The hypothetical Wolf Blitzer was proposing was a guy who CAN afford to buy health insurance and didn’t, doesn’t surprise me that people feel “If he didn’t feel like taking care of himself when he could, fuck him”

  140. 140.

    Dee Loralei

    September 12, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    @Morzer: that would be fucking brilliant.

  141. 141.

    Origuy

    September 12, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    Join us in recording your best impression of a “modem handshake” sound.

    I used to be able to whistle into an acoustic coupler and get the computer on the other end to respond.
    Couldn’t do it now, though.

  142. 142.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    September 12, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    @mclaren:
    1. Being in Texas, I assure you that until the day after the election, you should be afraid of the possibility of President Perry.
    2. President Romney will only differ from President Perry in what he says while he’s repealing Social Security.

    Not voting for Obama guarantees a Republican victory, and there is nothing right now worse than that.

    As for Obama, I’m not waiting for a Repubican president just so you can get over your amnesia of 2001-2009, or for that matter, 1993-2001, where the only major legislative accomplishment that wasn’t Republican was the tax increase.

  143. 143.

    Calouste

    September 12, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    @Chris:

    She will then proceed to ignore that sacred text with the same enthusiasm with which she currently ignores the constitution. (Love your neighbor, feed the hungry and clothe the poor, rich man + eye of needle, etc).

    Not that Bible. The real one, written in ‘Mercan.

  144. 144.

    hhex65

    September 12, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    @Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal: Retain the purity of your precious bodily fluids, my friends.

  145. 145.

    gnomedad

    September 12, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    Shorter mclaren: I do not avoid Democrats. But I deny them my essence.

    ETA: @hhex65: Hahaha, GMTA.

  146. 146.

    Comrade Kevin

    September 12, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    @Comrade Mary: 9600 baud? The first modem I had, for my Apple ][ computer, was a 300 baud thing. I couldn’t believe how fast the 1200 baud modem that replaced it was.

  147. 147.

    OzoneR

    September 12, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Yeah so a self-described liberal friend of mine said this about her supporting Ron Paul now

    He has different ideas then everyone else, and I like someone who’s able to stand up and be different (and not an idiot).

  148. 148.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    September 12, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    @mclaren:

    Obama will appoint the same far-right fanatics to the Supreme Court that Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann would, so what does it matter?

    I’m so sorry, but the evidence completely invalidates this.

  149. 149.

    Comrade Mary

    September 12, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    @OzoneR:

    I like someone who’s able to stand up and be different

    I blame Steve Jobs.

  150. 150.

    MikeJ

    September 12, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    @Comrade Kevin: 300 baud? The luxury! We had to tie notes to rats and birds. Eight rats and one tropical bird it was. The extra one was for parroty.

  151. 151.

    Calouste

    September 12, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    @OzoneR:

    And how did your friend work out that Ron Paul is not an idiot? It takes one to know one I guess.

  152. 152.

    wasabi gasp

    September 12, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Huntsman is a douchebag! I didn’t know! He is such a multifaceted man and I’m enjoying learning about each and every one of those facets.

  153. 153.

    Comrade Kevin

    September 12, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    @MikeJ: haha! Very good.

  154. 154.

    hhex65

    September 12, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    @gnomedad: heh, 1st thing that popped into my head, too.

  155. 155.

    jibeaux

    September 12, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    @OzoneR: Hell, you can find those folks in every park in America.
    Still, it’s a fascinating philosophy, that we should vote for people who are different from everyone else. I have an uncle who would apparently make a crackerjack presidential candidate.

  156. 156.

    scav

    September 12, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    @MikeJ: ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. Parroty indeed, but I still want to see you take a bite out of your ratpack.

  157. 157.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    September 12, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    @OzoneR: Does she not realize that the only reason he stands up and says that stuff is because he knows it will never pass.

  158. 158.

    Suffern ACE

    September 12, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    @jibeaux: Yet the Rent’s Too Damn High candidate didn’t end up making a difference last fall.

  159. 159.

    OzoneR

    September 12, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Her response to my “um, those ideas include getting rid of the EPA and minimum wage” was

    I know, I’m in a weird place in life – I agreed w/ everything obama said in the jobs speech, but am also tots rooting 4 ron paul

    This is why progressives can’t win people.

  160. 160.

    OzoneR

    September 12, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    @mclaren:

    Obama will appoint the same far-right fanatics to the Supreme Court that Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann would, so what does it matter?

    This is the point where I deem you crazier than the lady from Queens who told me Obama supported the Holocaust when I asked her to vote for David Weprin.

  161. 161.

    Nutella

    September 12, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    @OzoneR:

    This is why progressives can’t win people.

    Not the irrational people, that is. Unfortunately they’re the majority of voters.

  162. 162.

    RossInDetroit

    September 12, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    @Comrade Kevin:

    My first computer, in 1976, had 4,096 bytes of memory. I programmed it in 8 bit 6502 machine language. No keyboard and no monitor.

    So get off my lawn.

    (shakes cane at meddling kids)

  163. 163.

    Turgidson

    September 12, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    @Calouste:

    Exactamundo. The long-term goal of all these clowns (barring Huntsman…maybe Romney but tough to say what the jellyfish really believes) is to undermine any and all confidence in government. Threatening the Fed chairman with Texas frontier justice advances that goal in its own fucktarded way.

  164. 164.

    Elie

    September 12, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    @gogol’s wife:

    LOL!!!

    I am wicha baby… just could not watch and your analysis is right the fuck on.

  165. 165.

    Comrade Kevin

    September 12, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    @RossInDetroit: Did you feed it punch cards?

    I college, I did do some work like that, though it was using an 8085 processor. Programmed it using assembly language, which I’d burn onto an EEPROM.

  166. 166.

    Elie

    September 12, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    @Linda Featheringill:

    Maybe he will shoot himself in his armpit

    I dunno — everytime I see this guy I think he could do that (shoot himself accidentally in the armpit)

  167. 167.

    RossInDetroit

    September 12, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    @Comrade Kevin:

    KIM-1 microcomputer. hex keypad input and LED digit displays for output. Had about as much computing power as a modern novelty musical greeting card.
    I still have a NEC in the basement that’s a TRS-80 clone, if you can believe someone would want such a thing.

  168. 168.

    harlana

    September 12, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    can someone explain to me why anyone would elect Rick Santorum?

  169. 169.

    harlana

    September 12, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    @wasabi gasp: Huntsman is a dick, I don’t think it goes much deeper than that except for a bit of nerd-rock element thrown in there, he likes to do that it seems

  170. 170.

    harlana

    September 12, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    Perry is, in fact, more repulsive than Santorum, yes, it is possible

  171. 171.

    Comrade Kevin

    September 12, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    @RossInDetroit: I was, of course, kidding about the punch cards. I had an after-school job at Lockheed once where I had to sort through boxes of punch cards and magnetic tapes, and decide whether or not to throw them away.

    Also, I have an Apple //e out in the garage, somewhere. I used that computer for a good six years, through part of high school, and all of college.

  172. 172.

    MikeJ

    September 12, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    @Comrade Kevin: The eng school had a card punch, but the only reader hooked up to anything was in Rolla. My personal machine was a commie, but that’s not too surprising.

  173. 173.

    Dennis SGMM

    September 12, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    @RossInDetroit:
    The first computers I worked on required programming in COBOL via punch cards. I then “moved on” to PASCAL and FORTRAN. I was, and still am, a rotten typist and with punch cards there was no error correction: you just loaded a fresh card. Good times.

  174. 174.

    RossInDetroit

    September 12, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    I missed punch cards by one term. I started school the fall they fired up a new VAX VMS 780 with terminal input. We coded COBOL on coding sheets & typed them into dumb terminals.
    I have since spent 10X thousands of hours hacking COBOL, Macro Level CICS & other business machine codeage. Not much since Y2K, though.

  175. 175.

    Origuy

    September 12, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    I started on an ASR33 Teletype machine that punched paper tape. I would type in a BASIC program, call up the Indiana University CDC 6600 on a 110 baud modem, feed in the tape, get my error messages, fix them a line at a time, and punch out a new version of my program. That was in 1973, my junior year in high school.

    My lawn, get off it.

  176. 176.

    harlana

    September 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    @Dennis SGMM: I worked as a programmer in COBOL for a year, (I sucked!) we worked on a mainframe, of course, part of my responsibility was to get the server started in the morning by feeding in the punch cards to get the mainframe booted up for the day

  177. 177.

    Comrade Kevin

    September 12, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    @RossInDetroit: The college I went to had a DECSystem 20 when I started. They replaced it with a VAX sometime while I was there.

  178. 178.

    RossInDetroit

    September 12, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    @Origuy:

    Paper Tape! Baudot existed only in our wildest dreams. We saved code and data to audio cassette tape on a portable borrowed from my sister. I kid you not. The mid ’70s were lean times for teenaged computer nerds.
    I’ve been working in an elementary school this week. The ‘house rules’ posted on the walls require the students to leave their iPads in their lockers during class.

  179. 179.

    harlana

    September 12, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    999

    999

    999

    000

  180. 180.

    harlana

    September 12, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    @RossInDetroit: now that is some nerd stuff i can get into, i’m not into the gaming stuff, but that is cool in a historical sense

  181. 181.

    RossInDetroit

    September 12, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    Time was I’d debugged so many COBOL core dumps I could practically diagnose the problem by weighing the printout in my hand.

  182. 182.

    RossInDetroit

    September 12, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    @harlana:

    I’m a hardware guy these days. Making stereo amps out of WWII guided missile vacuum tubes & stuff like that. It’s more hands-on. I doubt I’ll ever code again, though I had a good 20 year run at it.
    In terms of history of technology, the development of RADAR during WWII is an amazing story.

  183. 183.

    priscianus jr

    September 12, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    Join us in recording your best impression of a “modem handshake” sound.

    When they were three years old, my twins used to do it like this: “Oweeda … ssskaaaaaaaaahtch!”

  184. 184.

    Davis X. Machina

    September 13, 2011 at 12:00 am

    @Origuy: Identical experience, same year, using the membership of a friend from a well heeled family. We were working out of the Boston Museum of Science. Acoustic coupler, rubber cups for the phone.

  185. 185.

    mclaren

    September 13, 2011 at 12:00 am

    @Raven (formerly stuckinred):

    Paul thinks WWII was the “last war”!

    Technically speaking, Ron Paul is correct. WW II was the last time America actually declared war on anyone.

    Every American use of military force since WW II has been some sort of bogus “police action” or “sending advisors plus military support” or some other mealy-mouthed doubletalk.

    America has not declared war since December 7, 1941. And that’s a big part of the problem with U.S. use of military force since 1945. Because when we’ve got a situation where the American president can act like a Roman emperor and simply order hundreds of thousands of troops to bomb and strafe and roll tanks into some third world hellhole on the other side of the world, with no barrier to entry to the conflict raised by the requirement that congress put its ass on the line and actually vote for a full declaration of war, we’re in a very dangerous situation.

    That kind of situation of send-in-the-troops-because-the-emperor’s-whim-desires-it leads directly to a military garrison state where the rule of law goes away and might makes right. Which is, in fact, the kind of society America is rapidly turning into.

  186. 186.

    priscianus jr

    September 13, 2011 at 12:17 am

    When I started high school in 1959, I used to help out in the student record office. We used edge-notched cards, known as McBee cards, with a wire rod. It was fun pulling those cards. This technology was invented in 1896.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge-notched_card

  187. 187.

    Frankensteinbeck

    September 13, 2011 at 12:54 am

    @butler:
    I’m not quite sure with Mclaren. I understand it has a blog and a long history of this kind of freakish disassociation with reality outside of these comments. But we ARE talking about someone who – and I’m not kidding – rewrote Obama’s SOTU because the actual one didn’t betray him enough.

    @Morzer:
    She believes in specifically this. It’s one of her big super-Christian things. Somehow, she herself PERSONALLY gets an exception. Tea Party in a nutshell.

  188. 188.

    gnomedad

    September 13, 2011 at 8:04 am

    I learned computing with toilet paper and pebbles, whippersnappers.

  189. 189.

    RossInDetroit

    September 13, 2011 at 9:00 am

    @gnomedad:

    Calculated the equinoxes on a slide rule whittled from a smilodon tusk. Get off my veldt.

  190. 190.

    RossInDetroit

    September 13, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Brett and Rennie Sparks must be seen live to be appreciated. American Gothic at its weirdest and most compelling.

  191. 191.

    Mwangangi

    September 13, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    @RossInDetroit: Genius.

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