Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

We still have time to mess this up!

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Republicans don’t trust women.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Democrats are back in array!

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

If marriage is the equivalent of selling yourself into slavery, women with self respect should reject the offer.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2012 / More Warren Porn

Reader Interactions

221Comments

  1. 1.

    Kola Noscopy

    I live in Boston. This woman tempts me to take up voting again.

    However, where’s my guarantee that once in Washington, she won’t be co-opted by the forces of general evil who run the show?

  2. 2.

    Loviatar

    In comparison to Obama, She is a Democrat. Thats why she makes a connection.
    .

    She will get every bit of support from me Obama would have got in 2012.

  3. 3.

    28 Percent

    Reading the Suskind book, so far in it Warren’s coming across as the great “what could have been” of the Obama presidency thus far, with Larry Summers taking center stage as the underwhelming reality.

  5. 5.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    Yunno who she reminds me of? Nancy Smash.

    Both progressives (despite what the firebaggers and the rest of the purity leftists say) and both getting into politics later in life.

    My wife, who isn’t the political junkie I am, who’s grown increasingly left as she’s gotten older and who typically doesn’t follow politics the way we do here, when she heard Warren was running for Senate the first words out of her mouth were “where do we give?”

    My 2012 political monies will go to MA. They sure as shit won’t go here in Misery to help re-elect Blanche McCaskill. I might vote for her (the “Crawl Over Glass While Holding My Nose” scenario, but I won’t give her a dime of money.

  10. 10.

    beltane

    I’ve been a big fan of Elizabeth Warren’s ever since her days as a contributor over at TPM Cafe. She is like a Heartland Bernie Sanders, and a rebuke to those pundits who think that RealAmerican means shrieking, dumbass wingnut.

  11. 11.

    waratah

    Halperin scowled when he saw they could not trip her this morning. She left Willie with egg on his face when he asked if she thought that one Senator could change things. I found myself smiling the whole time.

  12. 12.

    Loviatar

    OMG,

    Love the Halprin bitch slap.

    Did you see his face as she connected the Chinese economic and military threats?

  13. 13.

    Anya

    @Loviatar: Oh Lord. Some of you are addle-brained. WTF! How are you different than birthers, or those who claim President Obama (or candidate Obama at the time) is a Manchurian candidate intent on America’s destruction.

  14. 14.

    jwest

    Elizabeth Warren stands a good chance of winning the senate election in 2012.

    Although it’s clear that the republican landslide will eliminate most of the democrats up for office, there is a strong possibility that someone like Warren, with no previous elected experience, will be able to capture a seat in the most liberal state in the country.

    As one of the only democrats to be elected in 2012, she will immediately be a prominent figure in the party.

  15. 15.

    RP

    My god. Could Halperin be any more obvious in his attempt to play gotcha with a moronic question about the Chinese military? He should keep his mouth shut and be thought a fool. Every time he opens his mouth he removes all doubt.

  16. 16.

    Steve

    I’ve always appreciated the things Warren stands for, but I never had any idea she was such a rock star. Maybe I’m glad she’s not being wasted as a regulator.

  18. 18.

    Loviatar

    Also love this section.
    .

    Question: Are you willing to criticize Democrats?

    Warren’s Answer:

    I don’t think anyone has to ask the question if I’m willing to criticize anyone. I think my reputation precedes me.

    In the background you hear a chuckle that is quickly stifled.

  19. 19.

    Martin

    We should take up a pool on how long before Loviatar declares Warren to be a Republican as well. That’s the awesome thing about purity standards – everyone is guaranteed to fail, the only question is when.

  20. 20.

    Joel

    Who the fuck cares about the Chinese military vis-a-vis the United States? The only conflict of interests there are North Korea (not going there) and Taiwan, which is about as cold as a conflict gets right now. Halperin’s gooper enablers need to work harder to find better bogeymen.

  23. 23.

    Comrade Mary

    Forget the porn. I’m just trying to figure out my Warren costume for Halloween. Maybe I can go trick or treating on Parliament Hill and scare Steve shitless.

  24. 24.

    Martin

    But regarding the post title, it appears that Cole is again winning the PageRank blogger arms race. We should expect a whole new crop of commenters here in the coming days, but when they say ‘Fuck Virginia Foxx!’, they’ll mean it.

  25. 25.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Martin: Well, one suspicious thing was her support for Obama’s decision not to offer the consumer financial product safety gig to noted liberal firebrand Elizabeth Warren.

  26. 26.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    @Steve:

    I’ve always appreciated the things Warren stands for, but I never had any idea she was such a rock star. Maybe I’m glad she’s not being wasted as a regulator.

    This. Everything happens for a reason so the saying goes. Now, it’s likely she might have had more immediate impact as a regulator. But longer term, she might have more impact as a Senator.

    Lotsa people didn’t think Al Franken was a “rock star” either. Methinks we’re seeing something similar in terms of “naturals” albeit from very different professional backgrounds.

  30. 30.

    Martin

    @FlipYrWhig: Excellent point! If Elizabeth Warren were a true progressive, she would have insisted – nay, bully pulpited – that Elizabeth Warren be appointed to the CPSC. Instead she caved and adopted the usual right-wing framing that Elizabeth Warren was wrong for America.

  32. 32.

    Brian R.

    Suck on that, Halperin.

    My thoughts exactly. Not only was it a stupid attempt at a gotcha question, but he got his fucking ass handed to him.

    Well, one suspicious thing was her support for Obama’s decision not to offer the consumer financial product safety gig to noted liberal firebrand Elizabeth Warren.

    For the win!

  33. 33.

    Martin

    Wait, what is Elizabeth Warren’s stance on Wednesday? Is she willing to sell it out in favor of Thursday as well? It’s it about time someone stood up for true progressive days of the week?

  34. 34.

    Tom

    I think we’re obviously looking at the next senator for Massachusetts, and she’d be a darn good 2016 Prez. candidate.

  35. 35.

    cmorenc

    Finally, someone capable of articulately, concisely, attractively stating the case for what the democratic party should be about, both on a values level and a coherent intellectual level. She connects with people at a very personal level, without resort to bullshit political-speak or dog-whistles.

    The Republicans will soon be very, very afraid of this woman, for if they don’t come up with a way to assassinate her character soon, Scott Brown is toast and they’ll find themselves up against someone as effective as Ted Kennedy was, without any Chappaquiddick in her past to dredge up.

  37. 37.

    Rhoda

    I love her.

    I also love how stupid she made Halperin and Geist look with those bitchy questions.

    I’d be so happy if she wins Teddy’s seat back for the Democratic Party.

  38. 38.

    Nevgu

    Figures Firebagger Cole would post a video from the biggest Dem concern troll cable show there is!

    I wouldn’t care if they were interviewing a resurrected Jesus Christ. I wouldn’t waste one minute of my time watching that clip as long as I have to see Joe and Marks smug faces!

  39. 39.

    Josie

    Halperin’s giant ego caused him to think he was smart enough to ask a question she couldn’t answer. I loved seeing him handed his ass so politely.

  41. 41.

    Lee

    The look on Halperin’s face after she bitched slapped him almost made me stop wanting to punch him in the face (I said almost).

  42. 42.

    fuckwit

    @Steve: I will bet money that it was Obama who convinced her to run. She probably had her heart set on that Consumer Protection gig– one she’s actually worked for her whole life– but I’ll bet he convinced her that her country needs her in an elected office like Senator.

    She is truly awesome. Think about this though: how do we get a whole Senate full of Warren’s and Franken’s and Sanders?

    We do what Obama (or whomever, if it wasn’t him) did: WE CONVINCE GOOD PEOPLE TO STEP UP AND RUN FOR OFFICE. Or we do it ourselves.

  43. 43.

    Chris

    @Joel:

    Who the fuck cares about the Chinese military vis-a-vis the United States?

    People who’re Strong On Defense, silly liberal!

    We only have twelve aircraft carriers. China’s had one for fourteen years, and rumors are that it might actually become operational in the next few years! in which case we’re going to need to build twelve additional ones, just to keep up.

  45. 45.

    NonyNony

    @Martin:

    We should take up a pool on how long before Loviatar declares Warren to be a Republican as well.

    I honestly am not sure why I should care what the Finnish goddess who gave birth to disease thinks about anything. Choice of pseud often gives hints as to why someone is posting. Also I’m fairly certain that mythic beings are barred from voting in the US – certainly foreign ones are.

    (It’s also possible that Loviatar is making a D&D reference, posting as the goddess of pain and torture. I’ll leave it to others to decide if that makes it better or worse.)

  46. 46.

    jayjaybear

    I very much like her and wish we here in PA could clone her and retire Toomor…er, Toomey early. She scares the smelly stuff out of Republicans…Halperin was mashing buttons like a noob who just bought a lvl 85 orc warrior tank on eBay, trying to make something, ANYTHING, land.

  49. 49.

    Kola Noscopy

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    Methinks we’re seeing something similar in terms of “naturals” albeit from very different professional backgrounds.

    Do you really use terms such as “methinks” and “albeit” in your meatspace life? Or are you auditioning for NPR?

  50. 50.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Kola Noscopy:
    @Loviatar:
    I love the disconnect from reality of the two of you.
    1) You don’t just walk into Washington, into Congress, and take over. It’ll be great to have outspoke people on the floor – can I sign the potition to make her Senate Majority Leader – but there are over 500 other people to have to deal with. And she will have to make some deals.
    2) If you think anything she tries to pass will be signed by President Perry/Romney, I don’t event want to have what your smoking. You’re gonna die from it soon.
    3) Democrat – I don’t think the term means what you think it means. You get stuff passed to help people, not throw a bunch of things around so that you can puff up your chest showing your purity. See the New Deal as it was passed, not what you think was passed, for an example.

  53. 53.

    Linnaeus

    Some countersnark:

    Warren’s nutty talk about the concentration of power in Washington clearly marks her as some sort of purist, which makes her unelectable.

    Okay, seriously:

    If BJers like what she’s saying (and it appears we do so far) and we think she’s a serious candidate (which also appears to be the case), then it’s worth thinking about 1) the issues she emphasizes and 2) how she talks about them. That, in turn, can engender a discussion about how to broaden these messages to other local electorates and to the national electorate more generally.

  54. 54.

    balconesfault

    @fuckwit:

    At the time she finally withdrew, and the left went into the vapors over Obama’s failure to try to shove her down the GOP’s throat, I figured that not doing so was all about giving her more room to open up her candidacy.

    You know she’s going to be appointed to the Senate Finance Committee. I almost hope Orrin Hatch gets re-elected just so she can bitchslap him on a regular basis.

  56. 56.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    Lotsa people didn’t think Al Franken was a “rock star” either. Methinks we’re seeing something similar in terms of “naturals” albeit from very different professional backgrounds.

    Not naturals, methinks. They both have learned the skills of speaking to and winning over a semi-hostile crowd thru the School of Hard Knocks:

    Franken: Standup Comedian
    Warren: College Professor

  57. 57.

    Short Bus Bully

    She is fucking fantastic!

    She is exactly like Nancy Smash. She and Nancy Smash are kicking ass and taking names. More power to them. Strong Democratic women for the motherfucking win.

  58. 58.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar:

    Question: Are you willing to criticize Democrats?
    __
    Warren’s Answer:
    __
    I don’t think anyone has to ask the question if I’m willing to criticize anyone. I think my reputation precedes me.

    A Democrat who openly admits that she’s willing to criticize Democrats? Doesn’t that qualify as validating a “Republican meme”? In any case, if she makes an analogy between a household budget and the federal budget, we’ll know she’s Not One Of Us.

  59. 59.

    balconesfault

    @Linnaeus: I actually think that’ll be one of the best things about having a Senator Warren … is that same Senator Warren stumping for Dem candidates across the country in 2014.

  60. 60.

    Brian R.

    @cleek:

    the Party would do well to get her out there, speaking as far and wide as her schedule will allow.

    Keynote address, 2012 Democratic National Convention.

  61. 61.

    Poopyman

    @cleek:

    the Party would do well to get her out there, speaking as far and wide as her schedule will allow.

    Ah, but that would mean stepping on some toes. A lot of toes. Can’t hurt those tender Senatorial egos!

  62. 62.

    Kola Noscopy

    @Short Bus Bully:

    She is exactly like Nancy Smash. She and Nancy Smash are kicking ass and taking names.

    hahahaha…

    Would that be Nancy Fucking “Impeachment is off the table” Smash kicking ass and taking names?

    hahahahaha….

    the epitome of being co-opted by the dark forces of evil who really run the show in D.C. I hope Warren stays a long way away from Nancy Ca$h.

  64. 64.

    cckids

    I love that not only is she intelligent & articulate & personable, she has the basic smarts to have anticipated some of these questions & thought out a rational, intelligent answer to them. She doesn’t sound pre-rehearsed like most pols, she just sounds like a smart person who has given a lot of thought to what she’s doing and why.

    Sad that something so basic is so rare.

  65. 65.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Kola Noscopy: I fully expect you to turn on her on January 30th for standing up on the floor stating that she is passing her landmark bank reform legislation without the piece breaking the banks apart because dropping that brought on enough Republicans to get it passed.

  66. 66.

    NonyNony

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    They both have learned the skills of speaking to and winning over a semi-hostile crowd thru the School of Hard Knocks:
    Franken: Standup Comedian
    Warren: College Professor

    And with that background Warren also has had to deal with a lot of self-absorbed, sophomoric, know-it-alls who have just discovered Ayn Rand and think they’ve unlocked the secrets of the universe.

    Depending on how she handled them, she’s probably ready to deal with the Senate.

  68. 68.

    Short Bus Bully

    @Kola Noscopy:
    No, it’s Nancy “Get Shit Fucking Done” Smash as opposed to “reporting live from Planet Unicorns and Sunshine Enimas.”

    Go sit over by the rest of the purity trolls fuckstick, and leave my lovely ladies alone.

  70. 70.

    Lurking Canadian

    @cckids: That was exactly my reaction the first time I ever heard President Obama speak and answer questions. “Holy crap! That guy actually answered the question they posed! Who does that?”

  71. 71.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @cckids: Let me try to Karl Rove that for you: “Sadly, she’s been in Washtington for so long that she already has answers to all of the questions reporters ask her. Do you really want someone that comfortable with Washington?”

  73. 73.

    JPL

    Thank you for posting the video since I don’t watch Morning Joe. What I want to know is what would Sarah say? I know she can see Russia from her house and her insight would be valuable. What are the odds Halperin would ask her the same question? Would she say her son served honorably in Iraq and is now ready to take on the Chinese?

  75. 75.

    Loviatar

    @FlipYrWhig:

    A Democrat who openly admits that she’s willing to criticize Democrats? Doesn’t that qualify as validating a “Republican meme”? In any case, if she makes an analogy between a household budget and the federal budget, we’ll know she’s Not One Of Us.

    A Democrat whose willing to criticize Democrats who use Republican talking points and who are corporate stooges, I consider a Democrat who understands the American people and democratic ideals.

    A Democrat who forswears any criticism of fellow Democrats just because they call themselves a Democrat, I consider an authoritarian and a crypto Republican Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment, which a lot of the Obots seem to be.

  76. 76.

    Holden Pattern

    Halperin: “Booga booga treacherous orientals booga booga! Military spending top priority treacherous orientals booga booga! Whatcha gonna do about that, egghead? Huh? Egghead”

    Warren: “Good lord, you’re a moron. This shit is all connected, and if you don’t get that, there’s really no help for you, you waste of perfectly good oxygen.”

  77. 77.

    slag

    @Kola Noscopy:

    However, where’s my guarantee that once in Washington, she won’t be co-opted by the forces of general evil who run the show?

    You don’t have one. So, don’t vote, and then proceed to shut the fuck up so that nobody has to hear your pissy whining since you didn’t bother to show up. Asshole.

    Also, goddamn that woman’s good!

  81. 81.

    Steve

    @Short Bus Bully: I think Nancy Pelosi is great, and she may be 10x the bare-knuckles politician that Elizabeth Warren is, but from what I see in this clip Warren is already 10x the communicator.

    What impressed me here, even more than the substance of her excellent answers, was the political instincts on display given that Warren is very new to this game. The way she steers every answer back to what she wants to talk about without looking like she’s avoiding the question. The way she avoided saying anything at all about Scott Brown, keeping the focus on herself. Above all, the way she kept the focus on the things that real people are interested in, not stupid horse-race crap that interests only the 12 people who read Politico. Even the times when she mentioned her website managed to fit mostly naturally into the flow of the conversation rather than coming across like a sales pitch.

    Either Elizabeth Warren is getting better political advice than pretty much every other Democrat out there, or more likely she’s just a complete natural at this political stuff. Everything out of her mouth is going to go viral. I will be so brokenhearted if this bubble ever bursts.

  83. 83.

    cleek

    Scott Brown commercial: Meet Elizabeth Warren, Obama’s far-left lapdog. So far out of touch with MA that she thinks the best way to create jobs is with MORE REGULATIONS, MORE TAXES and BIGGER GOVERNMENT!

  84. 84.

    MikeJ

    @Martin:

    We should take up a pool on how long before Loviatar declares Warren to be a Republican as well. That’s the awesome thing about purity standards – everyone is guaranteed to fail, the only question is when.

    Remember with the emos wanted to primary Bernie Sanders for being insufficiently pure?

  85. 85.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    Not naturals, methinks. They both have learned the skills of speaking to and winning over a semi-hostile crowd thru the School of Hard Knocks:

    Possibly but I know plenty of college professors with resumes and backgrounds equal to Warren’s that would flounder in 5 minutes if put into her current situation.

    Never discount experience but never discount talent either.

  87. 87.

    Daveboy

    JPL: Sorry, poor choice of words – I meant that she steered the question away from Halperin’s stupid premise. Should have said “she dodged the trap in Halperin’s question.”

  88. 88.

    Kola Noscopy

    @slag:

    You don’t have one. So, don’t vote, and then proceed to shut the fuck up so that nobody has to hear your pissy whining since you didn’t bother to show up. Asshole.

    As per usual, the viciously angry, ugly, obscene Emobot perspective.

    You just get off on VOTING!!!! Do you masturbate in the voting booth? Whether or not it has any meaning besides your feeeeeeelings during the process is of no concern to you.

    Thanks!

  89. 89.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    @Kola Noscopy:

    Here’s something you won’t hear on NPR:

    Fuck you. Strong memo to follow.

    Methinks you’re an asshole. No wait, I’m sure of it, no methinking needed. Where’s my firebagger repellent when I need it?

  91. 91.

    Kola Noscopy

    @Ian:

    You may be confused with the fact that presidential appointees need to pass a 60 vote hurdle in the Senate.

    Jesus, here we go with this bullshit again. The above is only the case because Reid and his accomplices allow it to be so.

  92. 92.

    balconesfault

    @Daveboy: Eh … after years dealing with the sharp minds at Harvard Law, dealing with Halperin is akin to taking a slugger off Az State’s NCAA Championship Softball Team and sticking her in your local beer league lineup.

    “Hey cutie … think you can get this out of the infield?” WHACK!

  93. 93.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar: I guess I misremembered. It was someone else then, not you, who was all up in arms about how Obama shouldn’t criticize Democrats for any reason because he was the leader of the Democratic party. That’s what I was alluding to, but it didn’t work, because you weren’t the one who said that. That’s on me.

  94. 94.

    Downpuppy

    She was paying attention during the Coakley disaster : One thing Mass voters will never forgive is somebody who doesn’t like talking to them.

    Teddy Kennedy had his own folding chair at every parish hall in the Commonwealth.

  95. 95.

    JPL

    @Daveboy: Halperin should do more research about the fall of the USSR. It’s unfortunate that Perry and the rest of the GOP won’t be questioned the same way. Heck, it’s unfortunate Scott Brown won’t be asked the tough questions.

  96. 96.

    slag

    @Steve:

    Above all, the way she kept the focus on the things that real people are interested in, not stupid horse-race crap that interests only the 12 people who read Politico.

    Way way way above all! That bit was truly impressive. She definitely knows how to prioritize and make good use of her time. Extremely smart and disciplined.

  99. 99.

    some guy

    It is my opinion that all posts praising Elizabeth Warren should be accompanied a nice big fat FUCK YOU to Yves Smith, who WAS a corporate whore before she was against ‘em. Fucking fraud.

    excellent. we will now add Yves Smith to the list of Krugman, Atrios, and Jane Hamsher.

    the BJ Center Right Two Minute Hate Club never gives up, never surrenders.

    fucking moron.

  100. 100.

    Kola Noscopy

    I’m relieved to know that, being from Oklahoma, Elizabeth comes by her dropped “Gs” naturally. I was afraid it was a newly adopted campaign affectation similar to when Obama suddenly starts dropping his “Gs” during speeches.

    I was born and raised in that part of the country (southern Kansas) too and am pleased to know someone intelligent can come out of the Red Dirt State.

  101. 101.

    slag

    @Kola Noscopy: You’re right. Venting your idiotic id in blog comments has so much more effect on the world than does voting. I can’t believe I never figured it out before. Thank you. Thank you. Jesus H. Randian Christ, I have seen the light!

  102. 102.

    Paula

    @Martin:

    Well, they appear to have already started at the Yves Smith blog. Where they read maverickism in the past they now suspect is a willingness to toady up to Obama and the Democrats. And of course, to them, the transition from wonk to candidate is a completely new phenomenon that is explained by the all-consuming evil of Obama-tron.

    Yves Smith is supposed to have smart people in it, right? It appears to have the same damn stupid comments.

    Whatever, I think Warren going into public office is a mistake, too, but it clearly didn’t take her long to get up from her supposed final “rejection” by Obama’s cabinet into an election campaign.

    She’s clearly not content to be a wonk, albeit a celebrity one.

  104. 104.

    andrewsomething

    I love me some Elizabeth Warren, but this thread is entirely ridiculous.

    Apparently, Warren agrees with Obots and disagrees with Firebaggers on all points. While at the same time she manages to agree with Firebaggers and disagree with Obots on all points. Amazing! It’s like she some how magically supports whoever is posting at the time.

    I’ve also learned that Obama secretly scuttled her nomination to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau as both a brilliant move to push her into the Senate race, and also because he is the weakest President ever!

    To top everything off, Elizabeth Warren and Nancy Pelosi are exactly the same! Why? I don’t know. I guess because they’re ladies.

    I’ll conclude with a plea to for us all to just stop imagining that we know what lies in Obama’s heart of hearts? If we all simply dealt with reality instead of our imaginary Obamas, there might be less fighting going on (or at least we could honestly fight about policy difference rather than whether Obama is the best or worst ever).

    I’m sure Elizabeth Warren agrees with me.

  105. 105.

    Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E)

    I’m getting that ol’ “keep your eyes on this one, she’s going places” kind of feeling.

    For all the reasons mentioned thus far in this thread.

    Also, too, the trolls are at least a bit more interestng these days.

  107. 107.

    Spiffy McBang

    This is sort of a superficial thing, but it struck me as odd that they called her “Elizabeth” so often as opposed to “Professor Warren”. Given that even ex-politicians are referred to by their old positions, I didn’t expect them to use that level of familiarity. But I don’t usually watch these shows; what do they call Krugman?

  110. 110.

    cleek

    @inventor:
    when i wrote “the Party”, i meant the national party. it should have her speaking everywhere she can handle, not just in MA: political talk shows, comedy political news shows, in large Party rallies, opening for Obama, wherever there’s a place lots of people can hear her.

  111. 111.

    28 Percent

    @MikeJ: For entertainment purposes only, but if you’re anti-purity, what are you objectively-pro?.

    I mean, I get that expediency is expedient and all, but it’s hardly inspiring. One doesn’t actually volunteer for turn-out-the-vote efforts in the name of marginal improvement. People don’t turn out in Grant Park in the middle of the night in November to celebrate the best they could get at the time, given the political constraints. More to the point, neither politics, media nor culture move to accomodate a viewpoint that is willing to politely wait in the wings until summoned.

    The purity police aren’t idiots, but they are tremendously useful. They give cover to politicians who want to stake out a position left (or right, but in this case left) of the conventional wisdom. The role of politics is compromise, and politicians can’t compromise if their base comes pre-compromised.

    Look at the current situation with the Tea Party – they’re about as extreme and nonsensical as it’s possible to be. And the reward so far for their extremeties and purity tests has been the general leap of their party to an even loonier right than before with a free pass for doing it on the grounds that they have to to “appease their base”, recapture of the House, and they’re in a position now to threaten the White House. Have they had individual losses along the way? Absolutely. But they’re moving closer to recapturing the momentum of politics, in spite of the recent disastrous failure of their policies.

    If you don’t agree with a more progressive stance on its own merits, then fine. But pretending that it isn’t useful to have a base that’s more extreme than its representatives is, well it’s just bizarre, and it flies directly in the face of the evidence at hand.

  112. 112.

    Alex S.

    She’s really lovely. And she gets it. She might just save the Democratic Senate majority. The way she approaches her campaign makes me very confident that she’s going to win. It won’t be easy, Brown didn’t do any rookie mistakes, he’s got money and is reasonably popular, but Warren’s liberla star power will break through.

    Also nice to see Mark Halperin being the world’s biggest hack again. Oh my god, he’s such a hack…

  113. 113.

    goblue72

    @Steve: Well, she’s been learning how to throw sharp elbows and land her talking points since 2008 when she was appointed to chair the TARP oversight committee. And she used the bully pulpit in that toothless commitee to get the CFPB created. So its not like she’s completely green at this. She’s at minimum been wrestling with the alligators on a daily basis in the DC swamps for a couple of years now.

  114. 114.

    cleek

    @28 Percent:

    The purity police aren’t idiots, but they are tremendously useful.

    sometimes.

    if they were cultivating a crop of new progressive politicians, the Tea Party analogy would make more sense. but the self-proclaimed liberal base seems more interested in complaining about Obama than anything else. the teabaggers changed their party from the bottom up; the firebaggers seem to want to destroy their party, from the top down.

  116. 116.

    Martin

    @fuckwit:

    I will bet money that it was Obama who convinced her to run. She probably had her heart set on that Consumer Protection gig—one she’s actually worked for her whole life—but I’ll bet he convinced her that her country needs her in an elected office like Senator.

    I think the GOP filibuster is what forced that decision. Running for Senate was making lemonaid. If the GOP lose that seat, they have their own assholishness to blame.

  117. 117.

    some guy

    the firebaggers want to destroy it, from the top down.

    which is why David Dayen writes so enthusiastically of Warren and her candidacy over at FDL, he wants to destroy the party from the top down. and Yves Smith’s concerns about her candidacy, and his stated desire that she challenge Obama directly rather than run for Senate is clearly because she wants to DESTROY THE PARTY.

    the BJ Center Right Two Minute Fight Club never fails to amuse me.

  120. 120.

    Mino

    @cleek: At 110. Heh, heh, after hearing and seeing her this am, the Republicans are gonna wish they had buried her in the CFPB. She’s gonna set their asses on fire, politely, though.

  122. 122.

    Mnemosyne

    @cleek:

    the teabaggers changed their party from the bottom up; the firebaggers seem to want to destroy their party, from the top down.

    The Tea Partiers all rushed out in a block to become Republican precinct captains so they could choose the local candidates and get the people who agreed with them on the ballot and, hey, look! Their guys won the House because they had a bunch of fired-up Republican Party operatives working for them, not just voters.

    I will give $100 to Ralph Nader’s 2012 presidential campaign if Loviatar, Kola Noscopy, or any of our other whiny anti-Obama trolls can provide proof that they made a similar attempt to change the party on on the Democratic side.

  123. 123.

    tomvox1

    @eemom: Also per Yves Smith’s ridiculous diatribe, Bernie Sanders is a Quisling. So I think we know how seriously to take this person’s opinion (Man? Woman? Can’t confirm…). Just another Firebagger sucking on their perpetual thumb of disappointment.

    Also, too: Is Smith’s argument that Warren can’t win in Massachusetts but can win the Democratic nomination? What?

  124. 124.

    Cris (without an H)

    @cleek: the national party. it should have her speaking everywhere she can handle, not just in MA: political talk shows, comedy political news shows, in large Party rallies, opening for Obama, wherever there’s a place lots of people can hear her.

    Anybody want to place bets that she’ll be the 2008 DNC Keynote?

  125. 125.

    Mnemosyne

    @some guy:

    and Yves Smith’s concerns about her candidacy, and his stated desire that she challenge Obama directly rather than run for Senate is clearly because she wants to DESTROY THE PARTY.

    A) Yves Smith is a woman.

    B) Given the history of presidential elections of the past 50 years, anyone who wants to primary Obama is trying to destroy the party by definition.

  126. 126.

    Marc

    @some guy:

    Disagreeing with twits like you isn’t the equivalent of subjecting you to a 1984 mob scene. For such tough internet guys you’re mighty fragile.

    Yves Smith is an idiot who didn’t want Warren to run for Senate. Warren isn’t going to challenge Obama, because she isn’t an idiot – and she has worked for, and with, Obama. That makes Smith look extremely foolish – but, hey, she’s a firebagger. It comes with the turf.

  128. 128.

    FlipYrWhig

    @28 Percent: Even to be an officer in the Purity Patrol, though, you have to have some grasp on what’s politically possible. That guy the other day who was saying that the real fight was to implement local agriculture and all other fights were just distractions contrived by corporate interests… that’s purity all right, but not purity that’s going to move the larger debate.

    And I’m not prepared to concede that the left really is the Democratic base. Would that it were so. But I don’t think it is. And in that case, if the left is just one constituency among others, I’m not sure what the “purist” left thinks it’s doing with its continual critique.

    Feminists are important to the Democratic party too, but I don’t see a lot of people clamoring that it would be useful to Obama’s presidency to call him out for failing to smash the patriarchy and ceasing to uphold the phallogocentric rape culture. He’s just in the grip of Big Peni5, and no real feminist would ever stand for that! Refuse to endorse the patriarchy — don’t vote!

    It’s only if “the left” and “the base” are synonymous that the whole thing adds up. But they’re not.

  129. 129.

    Neddie Jingo

    @Kola Noscopy:

    Do you really use terms such as “methinks” and “albeit” in your meatspace life? Or are you auditioning for NPR?

    Do you really use terms like “meatspace”?

    Go fuck yourself, pudknocker. That NPR enough for you?

  130. 130.

    Scott P.

    The purity police aren’t idiots, but they are tremendously useful.

    Can’t they be both? I think “useful idiots” is the term.

  132. 132.

    eemom

    I found by doing a little googling, the CV of the actual woman who goes by the name “Yves Smith.”

    As I mentioned above, she is herself a corporate whore, with a lovely list of past clients that includes Goldman Sachs, among others.

    I therefore find it particularly outrageous that she dares to sit in judgment on Elizabeth Warren.

    Go do teh google yourself if you don’t believe me.

  134. 134.

    eemom

    @some guy:

    we will now add Yves Smith to the list of Krugman, Atrios, and Jane Hamsher.

    when has ANYONE here EVER lumped Krugman in with the likes of them?

    You. Are. A. Moron.

  136. 136.

    some guy

    @eemom:

    good point, moron. remind us again what positions your idol, Angry Black Corporate Lawyer, has taken over the years. do you have her CV at hand as well?

    and Marc, Yves Smith has proven quite prescient. read Susskind’s book and see, in direct quotes from the players, the points Smith has been arguing for the last 4 years.

  139. 139.

    Paula

    @Wee Bey:

    Part of a trend among long-time economists who decide that this means they know about politics, too.

    In all seriousness, I have nothing against that blog. I just thought that particular post was hi-larious.

    Warren isn’t going to challenge Obama, because she isn’t an idiot – and she has worked for, and with, Obama. That makes Smith look extremely foolish

    But instead of shrugging, oh well, either I was wrong about Warren or wrong about the Democrats, she has to write long, conflicted post trying to mindread Warren rather than choosing the simplest explanation out there.

  142. 142.

    Marc

    Smith has argued a lot of extremely foolish things over the last 4 years too. You don’t get to write a slate of ridiculous things and claim credit when you toss in an occasional sane thing which turns out to be correct.

    Her original article was hilarious enough, but she’s doubled down!

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/elizabeth-warren-to-announce-senate-campaign-tomorrow.html

    Here is the lead, which tells you all you need to know about Smith:

    “As readers probably know, we believe that Warren has decided to drink a poisoned chalice handed her by the Democratic party hackocracy. The notion of a Senate bid was dangled before her as a bright shiny toy to get her to leave the her role as de facto head of the CFPB gracefully. And she is showing Stockholm-syndrome-style loyalty to the people who used her, offered weak to no support as she was abused by Republican Congresscritters and then fired by the Obama Administration.”

    Oh, it gets better. This is her usual writing style, after all…

    “Ultimately, what good is running as a protest candidate for a body like the Senate? A real outsider, socialist Bernie Sanders who has no reason to be loyal to the Democrats, initially was a critical backer of Audit the Fed. He later played a Quisling role by (at Administration behest) proposing that the audit be limited to specific window during the financial crisis.”

    Yup, Bernie Sanders, Socialist and Quisling!

    The original, comedy gold, was

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/07/why-liberals-are-lame-part-3-why-a-warren-run-for-senate-is-a-bad-idea.html

    Veal pen! Veal pen! Veal pen!

  144. 144.

    cleek

    @some guy:
    yes, cheering one popular pol, who everyone else seems to like too, is a clear sign that the firebaggers are running a bottom-up campaign.

    you let us know when the firebaggers take time out from their important job of trying to depress Democratic turnout by endlessly churning the negativity, and get to work running progressive purity primary challenges in a 100 districts across the US.

    sure, that’s in direct opposition to their apparent goal of getting more and more people to “sit it out”. but, politics is complicated; i’m sure they’ll find a way to make it work… for them.

  146. 146.

    FlipYrWhig

    @cathyx: Also Atrios. And I know the list is supposed to be snark, but I’ll freely admit it: I can’t stand that smug fucker, and his blog is a cesspool.

  147. 147.

    Marc

    @cleek:

    it’s pretty cool, by the way, that disagreeing with anything that an online opinion writer says automatically makes them part of an organized 2 minute hate. Side bets on how long it’ll take for them to start calling it a high-tech lynching?

    You disagreed with me! I’m oppressed! Can’t you see the violence inherent in the system?

  150. 150.

    some guy

    @Paula:

    actually, Smith knows Warren, and has had numerous one on one conversations with her. Smith’s views about Elizabeth Warren and her abilities are (unlike eeeeeeMoron’s) nuanced and numerous (see her blog during the pre/post CFPB fight.) and though I agree with your assessment of Smith’s political acumen, eeeeeeeMoron started this thread by explictly stating that all praise for Warren should always be attached with a “Fuck You to Yves Smith” simply because Smith supports Warren’s ideology and Smith’s economic psoitions, but feels a Senate run is a bad choice for her.

    doesn’t get much more BJ Center Right Two Minute Fight Club than that.

    “doesn’t get much more” as in comment #21 on this thread

  152. 152.

    Wee Bey

    @Paula:

    Holy crap.

    Did anybody else see her on Morning Joe? She confirmed earlier impressions that she HASN’T figured out that Obama stabbed her in the back. She portrayed him as the CFPB’s biggest ally. Dr. Warren is my hero, and hopefully I’m underestimating her on this front, but I think she may be too naive for the political arena.

    I take it these people don’t know how stupid they sound?

  154. 154.

    honus

    @efgoldman: Everyone should remember that the next time there’s a Jim Webb bashing party here. Webb sure ain’t perfect, but the morning of November 8, 2006 was one of best of the 30 years I’ve spent in Virginia.

  155. 155.

    some guy

    You left out Glenn Greenwald, Digby, David Dayen, and Matt Taibbi.

    I missed those sessions of Fight Club, but I am sure they were just as amusing.

    cleek: we’ve already donated to Warren, and have urged my Bay State family members to do the same. and vote for her. what have you done for Warren? or for any of the other “bottom-up” campaign so far in this cycle?

    and why shouldn’t there be 100 primary challengers to 100 Congressional candidates? are you that in love with the current Democratic caucus?

  157. 157.

    kc

    I read that she once advocated in favor of school vouchers, which I think are an atrocious idea. But if she’s willing to wage class warfare against our fattest plutocrats, I could overlook that . . .

  160. 160.

    timo

    She’s shrill. What is she wearing? What kind of haircut is that?
    I kid. Looks like it’s back to pink hot pants for Brownie!

  162. 162.

    chonchito

    I hate to say this but I’ll be shocked if she wins. Way too aggressively outspoken against the financial industry and Brown is pretty popular in Mass according to the polls. Some ridiculous smear will catch hold and become the official narrative and she will lose because of it.

  163. 163.

    General Stuck

    I support Elizabeth Warren to be the next Obot senator from the great, but sometimes stoooopid, state of Massachusetts. And I hope her first bill would be to make her states name easier to sppell.

  170. 170.

    David in NY

    Lot of elbow throwing on this thread. Exciting — especially since it turns out I’m not the only one who has no idea who Yves Smith is.

  172. 172.

    Fulcanelli

    The idea of this woman in the Senate makes me giddy. I doubt she’ll have any problem raising the what, 2 or 3 trillion it takes to run a successful Senate campaign?

    If she does get in we’ll get to see Rachel Maddow’s “O” face in prime time FWIW. Clearly this is relevant to my interests.

    On the flip side if she oozes over to the dark side after she’s elected I’ll probably take a CEO and a few lobbyists hostage and feed ’em to a wood chipper.

  173. 173.

    Jenny

    Jane Hamsher says Warren will make a terrible senator.

    Jane is always right about these things, so I can’t support Warren.

  174. 174.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Loviatar:

    What’s really stupid about the smart thing you just wrote is that you (and those like you) should be doing just that; getting better Democrats (like Warren) elected at the state and local level. Do that and a president like Obama will have no problem delivering what you want.

    This is why the Teahadists and Repubs are so successful, they have their eyes on the prize; control what goes on at the local level and you can set the narrative at the national level.

    I really hate thinking that the Teahadists and Repubs are smarter than a bunch of progressives but…

  175. 175.

    trixie larue

    I cannot think of another candidate at this time – a first-time candidate, who is so articulate. Is her opponent this intelligent? Does he get asked “hard” questions? The Republicans aren’t really even sure what state they are from.

    There is the danger of her being too intelligent that might put off voters – happens all the time to Democrats. They think all they have to do is talk and everyone will “get it.”

  176. 176.

    Keith G

    Warren is a great human with a substantial intellect. I hope she wins, event though that means she will have to disappear for a few years and pay her Senatorial dues.

    That said:

    @ Cole (top) You got the title right. I have never read so many typed 0rgasms. Hope she lives up.

  178. 178.

    And Another Thing...

    Well, there’s good news and good news. The War on Terror is OVER if the hack/neo cons are trying to whip up fear over the Chinese military. Halperin is worthless.

    It appears that she’s going to be an excellent candidate and I’m putting money in her campaign.

    Whoever mentioned Orin Hatch up thread…I hooted when I read that and he will have an aneurysm. An uppity woman who’s twice as smart is ? OMG

  179. 179.

    elftx

    methinks my comment was sent to the penalty box for no good reason…

    anywho..I felt she handed the toady smug git his face on a platter and Willie only has one tool in his box…concern.

    also mentioned that Joe did address her as Professor.

  180. 180.

    harlana

    O…M…G

    i saw what she did there

    Warren vs. GE

    & Joe’s whiny male minions were completely disarmed, that was beautiful

    WOW

  182. 182.

    harlana

    Halperin is a douche, but i was actually rather pleased with his nozzlery here, it gave her an opportunity to expand on the breadth of her knowledge

  184. 184.

    Loviatar

    @175 – Odie Hugh Manatee:

    What makes you think Obama believes in Democratic ideals?

    He is a moderate 90s Republican, Reagan Democrat, Eisenhower Republican, call it what ever the hell you want to call it but based on his framing of the issues and policies choices he is not what was considered a classic Democrat.

    So what makes you think having other Elisabeth Warren in congress is going to push him into doing anything progressive. The only reason he is considered somewhat progressive today is because the Republican party is so far, far right and that anything far right is considered the center and anything to the left of that is “progressive”. Those of us who used to be considered moderate Democrats are now hippies, Firebaggers, emoprogs, etc., etc. and the liberals of yesterday are now socialist.

    President Obama likes the policies choices he has made, I don’t see him significantly changing with or without a more progressive congress.

  185. 185.

    And Another Thing...

    @Fulcanelli: @Cris (without an H): OK, you guys are making my day. In addition to an amazingly eclectic readership and commentariat, one of the great things about this blog is the humor. Lately, it’s been missing in action. There’s always been disagreement that’s frequently enlightening. But the atmosphere is increasingly sour. I think it’s that there are some new(ish) particularly poisonous trolls who are polluting the atmosphere, which is likely their intent.

    So thanks to you guys, and the others up thread who bring the humor. For the record, my mother never said that to us kids….NEVER heh

  186. 186.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Loviatar:

    Fuck you are stupid. If we had a congress that delivered bills to the president that included every pony you desire, and they were ponies that the public largely supports (as you and yours constantly harp about), then Obama would be stupid not to sign them in to law.

    Obama is not stupid. OTOH, you? No doubt about it.

    ETA:

    So what makes you think having other Elisabeth Warren in congress is going to push him into doing anything progressive.

    If Obama would do nothing that Warren and her kind would support then why would you bother supporting her as you stated above?

    I stand by my statement, you are stupid.

  187. 187.

    Maura Cavaleri

    @eemom: I have never read her before today and now, thanks to you, I must go wash my brain out. I admit to going as far as to read the comments. I threw up a little in my mouth. What a bunch of pious, pseudo-intellectual smarmy losers.

    If progressives want to win an election, then do what the TeaParty did. Get active WITHIN the party, convince Americans that their ideas are in their interests and then run a candidate.

    I am not a progressive, but I could respect that they moved the party left, hold my nose and vote for their candidate. Because what are the options?

  188. 188.

    Loviatar

    @187 – Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Ahh, I so love the name calling and insults, they motivate me to want to go out and support Obama. /sarcasm

    If Obama would do nothing that Warren and her kind would support then why would you bother supporting her as you stated above?

    Because unlike you and a lot of johnny come lately Obots I’ve been supporting Democratic politicians and ideals since I was old enough to vote. I believe she can change government and the Democratic party or at least point out the differences between a true believer in Democratic ideals and a so called believer.
    .

    The two videos John posted of her today provided a clear difference in true Democratic ideals and the ideals spouted by the current Democratic leadership led by President Obama.
    .

    Simple question, could you see President Obama making this argument:

    I hear all this, you know, “Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.”—No!

    There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there—good for you! But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

    .

    If so, then why hasn’t he made it.

  189. 189.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar:

    he is not what was considered a classic Democrat.

    Between obstructionist Republicans and the kind of red-state Democrats that run explicitly against liberal Democrats, there is no longer any way for a president to be a “Classic Democrat.” Or, to amend it slightly, any president who was _in thinking_ a Classic Democrat would have his legislation pulled to the right by the combined force of Republican procedural trickery and conservative Democratic foot-dragging. Sound like any presidents you know?

    I’m an Elizabeth Warren fanboi. But I don’t think that President Warren would get results that were any more leftwards than Obama has. She’d still have an opposition party pulling nonsense and a chasm between “Classic Dems” and the Nelson, Nelson, Landrieu, Manchin, McCaskill, et al group. So she’d probably have to strike some frustrating compromises or pull the plug on some initiatives she cherished. You don’t think that’s true?

  190. 190.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Loviatar:

    I’ve wasted enough time on you troll/ratfucker/Naderite/firebagger or whatever the hell you are. Now proclaim that I am chickening out and can’t rebut anything you said. Oh, and that you won the ‘argument’. Don’t forget that.

    Then pat yourself on the back, you’ve earned it! :)

  191. 191.

    Paula

    Who the fuck is a classic Democrat? The one who interned American citizens in wartime, the one who lied about a naval attack in order to escalate a war in Asia, or the one who enforced desegregation of schools*?

    *ooops, that was Ike!

  192. 192.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar: Remember “spread the wealth around”? “I am my brother’s keeper”?

    The one thing people used to give Obama credit for was that in his speeches he discussed the positive role of government — made a liberal case for government. He has done that consistently, from the campaign to the inauguration to the State of the Union to just about every high-profile speech. You’re just shutting yourself off from it.

  193. 193.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar:

    Because unlike you and a lot of johnny come lately Obots I’ve been supporting Democratic politicians and ideals since I was old enough to vote.

    How many elections have you even voted in? Pardon me, but you don’t come across as a grizzled veteran of American politics.

  194. 194.

    Loviatar

    @190 – FlipYrWhig:

    Between obstructionist Republicans and the kind of red-state Democrats that run explicitly against liberal Democrats, there is no longer any way for a president to be a “Classic Democrat.” Or, to amend it slightly, any president who was in thinking a Classic Democrat would have his legislation pulled to the right by the combined force of Republican procedural trickery and conservative Democratic foot-dragging. Sound like any presidents you know?

    My God, don’t you guys get it, President Obama has never made the case for Democratic ideals. He has pre-positioned every policy to the center or center right. At least propose from a Democratic point of view and then negotiate from there. Instead he has consistently proposed policies from the center/center right and he has also consistently framed his position from the center/center right. When we from the left call him on this we are insulted and called naive, unrealistic, hippies, Firebaggers, emoporg, etc.
    .

    Dude, do the F…ing job we elected you to do, govern like a Democrat. If you must negotiate, fine thats understood, but don’t govern like a moderate Republican, thats not what we elected you do.

    And for those who say thats what the American people wanted, I call bullshit. Their were moderate Republicans in the race, they were defeated, the Americans voted for the guy with the Democratic tag besides his name

  195. 195.

    Loviatar

    @193 – FlipYrWhig:

    The one thing people used to give Obama credit for was that in his speeches he discussed the positive role of government—made a liberal case for government. He has done that consistently, from the campaign to the inauguration to the State of the Union to just about every high-profile speech. You’re just shutting yourself off from it.

    .

    He may have made those statements during his campaign, but I haven’t seen much of that since the election. What I’ve gotten since the election is a lot of Republican framing of the issues (Job, Creators, US budget is like family budget, etc.) If you call that speaking from a Democratic point of view then I have to call bullshit.
    .

    Its ironic, its only now 3 years into his term and as he is prepping for reelection that we get his first Democratic Tax plan and no I don’t consider proposing an end to the Bush Tax Cuts a Democratic Tax plan. Thats nothing more than common sense, a centrist potion. I wonder what other Democratic proposals we’ll see within the next 14 months before the election.

  197. 197.

    Maura Cavaleri

    @Loviatar: But Obama did not articulate a progressive platform. He ran as to the center, where the bulk of America is. Not all Democrats are progressive, some of us are center.

    Work within the party, build up the progressive base, convince Americans of your ideas and MOVE the party to the left like the TeaParty did to the Republicans. But 2012, it’s Obama or ruin. Period.

  198. 198.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar: Yeah, like I thought: you don’t listen, you don’t pay attention to anything anyone else brings up, and you just keep repeating the same shit because you’ve convinced yourself. We’re done.

  199. 199.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Loviatar:

    What I’ve gotten since the election is a lot of Republican framing of the issues (Job, Creators, US budget is like family budget, etc.)

    Elizabeth Warren built her name on the subject of household debt. I guarantee you she’s going to use that fateful analogy.

    Its ironic, its only now 3 years into his term and as he is prepping for reelection that we get his first Democratic Tax plan and no I don’t consider proposing an end to the Bush Tax Cuts a Democratic Tax plan.

    He pushed to terminate the upper-income tax cuts, force senators on the record by holding two votes — just like the blogosphere wanted — and blogosphere heroes like Russ Feingold and Barbara Boxer went begging to him not to do it. This is all well established. We’ve been over it again and again and again. You shut it out because you have something else in mind and you’re impervious to counterarguments _drawn from facts_.

    It’s hopeless. I’m out.

  200. 200.

    El Cid

    @Jenny: I thought that Hamsher et al said that it would be bad for Warren to be a Senator, that she would likely do better out of it and wouldn’t face that type of corrupting or whatever.

    If this has to do with what was said a while back, I don’t think she (and so forth) said that Warren would be a bad Senator.

  201. 201.

    Marc

    A normal liberal would be quite happy about having a liberal elected to the Senate. It can’t possibly hurt, and it can help a lot.

    But we clearly have a cadre here who believe that the system is irredeemable. The sooner it collapses, the better; electing someone like Warren postpones the glorious day when the bourgeoisie loses their illusions and joins the revolution.

    It’s quite useful to be able to tell who those people are, so that you don’t need to waste your time dealing with them. Loviatar is clearly in the Leninist “heighten the contradictions” camp, and thus beyond hope for discussion.

    But I’m sure his Ultimate Frisbee team has a very clever name, which is not to be underestimated.

  204. 204.

    Marc

    @Paula:

    Elizabeth Warren, the Platonic Ideal, is perfect and magical; she would never betray us. Elizabeth Warren the Senator, by contrast, may vote in ways which disappoint us. It’s so much better to have your dreams, which can only be maintained if Ideal Warren never goes into a position where she may actually have to do something.

  205. 205.

    Loviatar

    @204 – Paula:

    You asked for an example, I gave you an example, you then laughed and dismissed my example as not being good enough.
    .

    And they consider us purist.

  206. 206.

    Loviatar

    @205 – Marc:

    Elizabeth Warren, the Platonic Ideal, is perfect and magical; she would never betray us. Elizabeth Warren the Senator, by contrast, may vote in ways which disappoint us. It’s so much better to have your dreams, which can only be maintained if Ideal Warren never goes into a position where she may actually have to do something.

    Ahh, classic strawman, take a statement out to its extreme so you can then dismiss your opponent.
    .

    Ballon Juice use to have commenters who could make an arguement, now with the influx of Obots and bABLers all we get is insults.

  207. 207.

    Paula

    @Loviatar:

    Who said she wasn’t good enough? She hasn’t even gotten elected yet. You use the phrase “classic Dem” on someone who hasn’t even made any votes as an elected official. All the while ignoring actual Democratic policy made by elected officials.

    Are you 10?

  208. 208.

    MacKenna

    @Kola Noscopy: E. Warren has been around the block many times. She is running because she’s fighting mad. You really think she is at risk of being compromised once she’s elected? Not a chance. Elizabeth, like Bernie Sanders, has integrity.

  209. 209.

    Loviatar

    @208 – Paula:

    You use the phrase “classic Dem” on someone who hasn’t even made any votes as an elected official.

    Oh, so you think classic Dem means only elected officials.

    I guess we had better tell all the volunteers and supporters who speak out and attend meetings, town councils, etc that their points of view as Democrats don’t matter as they’ve never been elected to anything.

    I look at those people as the bedrock of the classic Democratic party, thats where Democratic politicians used to come from until the corporatist figured out how to purchase elections. Professor Warren is a perfect example of that, someone who spoke out, volunteered her time and made a difference. She then moved into politics to make a further difference, but I guess she won’t count as a classic Democrat until she is elected.

  210. 210.

    Comrade Luke

    @Marc:

    A normal liberal would be quite happy about having a liberal elected to the Senate. It can’t possibly hurt, and it can help a lot.

    Thank you. I think we can close this thread now :)

  211. 211.

    Paula

    @Loviatar:

    OMG you ARE 10.

    But a very articulate one with a developed sense of civic duty for that age.

    Don’t stay up too late on the computer because it’s a school night!

  213. 213.

    Loviatar

    @213 – OzoneR:

    so what, Barack Obama says the same things, and yet you criticize him

    Please show me where President Obama has said the same or something similar, so I can continue to criticize him unfairly.

    I asked the following question earlier and have yet to get an answer.

    .

    Simple question, could you see President Obama making this argument:

    I hear all this, you know, “Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.”—No!

    There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there—good for you! But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

    .

    If so, then why hasn’t he made it.
    .

  215. 215.

    Lockewasright

    @mikefromArlington

    If Biden really is not going to make a run at 2016, and I don’t think he will, perhaps he should “decide to spend more time with the family” in 2014 and let someone who is gonna take a shot at it step into that VP spot for a couple of years.

  217. 217.

    scarshapedstar

    “Are you terrified of the yellow peril, or are you unserious?”

    ^ Responsible, thought-provoking journalism.

    “What newspapers or magazines do you read?”

    ^ TOTALLY UNFAIR GOTCHA QUESTION!

  218. 218.

    priscianus jr

    @Kola Noscopy:

    Would that be Nancy Fucking “Impeachment is off the table” Smash kicking ass and taking names?
    hahahahaha….
    the epitome of being co-opted by the dark forces of evil who really run the show in D.C. I hope Warren stays a long way away from Nancy Ca$h.

    Aw, Kola — you’re so progressive, it’s S P E C I A L.

  219. 219.

    priscianus jr

    @Loviatar:

    Please show me where President Obama has said the same or something similar, so I can continue to criticize him unfairly.

    So you really are trying to figure out how she can run for senator AND primary Obama at the same time.

    Good heavens, what must you think of fuckwit@43, who said, and I quote:

    “@Steve: I will bet money that it was Obama who convinced her to run. She probably had her heart set on that Consumer Protection gig—one she’s actually worked for her whole life—but I’ll bet he convinced her that her country needs her in an elected office like Senator.”

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Loviatar, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

  220. 220.

    Supernumerary Charioteer

    The thing that I loved while watching that clip is how she stayed on message without sounding like a talking-point robot. She modified, in real time, the phrasing of her stance so that it was both consistent and relevant to the question at hand.

    WTB more of that oratory.

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