If your library uses a system called OverDrive for lending digital content, and about 11,000 do, you can now check out books on your Kindle. The difference between using Kindle and the other OverDrive-supported devices is that the Kindle process doesn’t require downloading any software on your PC, and the library book on your Kindle is managed in the same way as any other Kindle book.
At least when you read your book on a Kindle, you know that it hasn’t been packed and mailed to you by employees toiling away in a warehouse where paramedics are standing by to treat employees injured in 100-degree heat, and where a contract labor firm attracts workers with promises of becoming an Amazon employee, only to increase their work quotas until they are worn out and quit.
cathyx
When you buy a book on kindle, it doesn’t use any employee.
harlana
A commenter posted this story in comments a few days ago, don’t remember who. Just wanted to give credit, if possible. Thanks for posting this.
O/T but the Chairman of the NC Democratic Party is on CSPAN right now doing an excellent job of acting like a reak Dem, supporting the Dem agenda and the President’s agenda and jobs bill, and refuting republican talking points coming in on the call line. awesomes
DFH that I am, I feel more unified with the Dem party than ever, I’m ready!
Moonbatting Average
I’m hungover, so maybe my snarkometer is broken, but if you’ve got a problem with Amazon’s practices, why does it make a difference if one uses a Kindle (Amazon product) versus an analog book from Amazon?
Mino
@harlana: Blue Dog Mary has been schooling Issa and his friends on the Energy Committee with reading their letters to Chu begging for money, their speeches in their districts that bragged on getting funds for green jobs, and charging them with destroying jobs by taking a hatchet to the programs once the cameras were gone.
Good on her.
One gets a spine, another get one, and soon, it’s a movement. Maybe.
LarsThorwald
How about a Nook?
Samara Morgan
just your homeslice EDK’s “freed” market in action.
what’s the fuss?
harlana
i feel like an asshole b/c i have been ordering lots of stuff on Amazon (not books however), before i read this a few days ago, of course
Shalimar
@Samara Morgan: I do not think EDK is 1% as important as you and your EDK tourettes think he is.
JD Rhoades
I’m curious. Have these problems been reported at any other Amazon locations or only the Lehigh Valley facility?
Samara Morgan
@Shalimar: LOL.
He spoofed a whole liberal blog, one of the top 10 blogs in some polling.
That has to count for some kind of success.
And everone gets soooooo pissy when i talk about him.
delicious.
John Weiss
What are unions for?
Samara Morgan
@JD Rhoades:
probly not at cold climate ones. :)
Samara Morgan
@John Weiss: unions are anti-pathetic to the “freed” market.
like worker benefits and universal healthcare.
JD Rhoades
Sounds like an admission of trolling to me.
HRA
Now I will return to work on Monday after 9 days off and snarl every time I have to open up a box of books from Amazon. This is truly amazing in this century.
In re: to temp workers, a coworker’s husband has been going from place after place as a temp. Each time he enters a new job, he has expectations of it becoming permanent. After reading the article on Amazon, it seems his chances are nil.
JPL
Write to Amazon. Although I don’t spend a lot, Amazon is my go to site for purchases. This is the response you’ll get btw.
Samara Morgan
@JD Rhoades: i learned from the Master, DougJ.
ABT (always be trolling)
Samara Morgan
@JPL: LOL! its because of global warming!
Linda Featheringill
@HRA:
temps:
Most temp positions never evolve into permanent employee positions. During my temping years, I learned to not expect much unless the company said right up front that they were looking for temp to perm.
JD Rhoades
@JPL:
Good to hear. Anyone know if they’re actually doing that?
I mean, before we go feeling like assholes for everything we ever bought at Amazon like harlana @7, wouldn’t it be a good idea to find out if this really is company wide policy or a bad facility whose management needs to be sacked?
Jade Jordan
There are tons of unairconditioned workplaces in the US. Schools are probably #1.
OSHA should set a maximum and minimum temperature standard for workplaces. Too hot and too cold workplaces obviously affect the health and welfare of employees.
JD Rhoades
@Samara Morgan:
Oh, okay. Thanks for your honesty. I know not to bother reading any of your posts now.
Mino
Self-contained swamp coolers. Old-fashioned, but they work.
Most warehouses are open planned and shouldn’t be air-conditioned. But there should be cooling stations and breaktime to use them.
Starfish
I order something from Amazon at least every two weeks if not more often. If you join the Amazon Moms program, you get free Amazon Prime and get free two day shipping on many things.
I will be reconsidering future purchases.
JD Rhoades
@Jade Jordan:
OSHA is fucking worthless. I’ve seen horrible industrial accidents caused by clear negligence and downright recklessness on the part of employers and they do fuck-all.You can’t get them off their lazy asses to even come to a fatality site.
JD Rhoades
@Mino:
I hear they don’t work so well in humid climates. Is this true?
amk
@Mino: landrieu said that ? Any linky ?
burnspbesq
I’ve tried to shift as much of my music purchasing as possible away from Amazon. I buy no vinyl from them; they don’t know how to pack it properly. I buy direct from record labels or from Acoustic Sounds. I’d rather they get the extra profit that would otherwise go to Amazon.
JPL
@JD Rhoades: This is the email I sent. The reply did not address the temp issue but that is probably understandable because of the large number of seasonal hires.
I did not mention the location of the facility so it does not seem wide spread. imo
Samara Morgan
@JD Rhoades: pie filter, she says helpfully.
:)
Mino
@JD Rhoades: No. Before built-in ac, they were the go-to for much of the South. They won’t reduce the air temp as much, but the big fan assists a lot with the cooling. Try puting a wet sheet over your body and standing before a fan. You’ll get all the cool you can handle.
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: I would think that a person with any amount of introspection would have absorbed something useful from the public shaming you received in this thread. Obviously either I am mistaken or you completely lack the capacity for introspection. Sad really.
On Topic: @JD Rhoades: I think this is right.
burnspbesq
One thing Amazon has done very well, which other retailers would do well to emulate, is make it easy to spend credit card reward points.
Samara Morgan
@JPL:
but they arent the cheapest. they have all those nasty expensive benefits.
JD Rhoades
@Mino:
My grandmother used to tell me this was the standard method back in her day.
Thanks.
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
“I would think that a person with any amount of introspection would have absorbed something useful from the public shaming you received in this thread.”
Hope triumphs over experience?
JPL
Initially I was pissed and still am but I don’t think the cooling problems were widespread. If they were and I was CEO of Best Buy, it would be advantageous to have investigators dig up as much dirt as possible.
Mino
@amk: Here it bees:http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/09/23/327733/landieu-darrell-issa/
JD Rhoades
@Omnes Omnibus:
If someone’s trolling, then introspection and/or shame are irrelevant. And she’s admitted to trolling.
JPL
@Samara Morgan: lol..Someone said that comment to me and I did point out that most industrialized nations provide some type of health care.
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: i was not shamed, LOL. You guys should be ashamed for lettin’ an obvious glibertarian roll you like cheap drunks.
BJ is a top ten blog and you let a smarmy freemarket fucktard spoof you.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq:
@JD Rhoades: Just getting it on the record.
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: Yeah, lack of introspection, it is.
arguingwithsignposts
Anyone remember Amazon’s attempt to blackmail California out of the sales tax on Internet sales just a few months ago? An attempt that failed, btw, but is illustrative.
Why would this be surprising? Apparently, their CEO is one of those worthless glibertarians.
Linda Featheringill
By the way, John Cole got a shoutout at dkos this morning [this week in science].
John Weiss
@JD Rhoades: Swamp coolers?
Dryer is better. Humid? Better than nothing.
Glocksman
I have worked for 16 years at the Evansville, IN (southwest IN) TJ Maxx Distribution Center and have seen numerous people hauled out on a stretcher due to heat injuries despite the cooling system installed in the building.
IOW, in a million plus SQF building air conditioning can do so much, especially in trailers being loaded, so TJ provides cold water and plenty of portable fans in the shipping and receiving departments.
If Amazon fails to do the same, then I’ll spend my hard earned money elsewhere.
arguingwithsignposts
@Glocksman: This brings up an interesting point: If this is really an issue of warehouses in general, perhaps some enterprising inventor/entrepreneur could find a solution that would help lower the chances of such heat-related incidents aside from portable fans.
I don’t know how such a system would work, but it’s a puzzle I’m throwing out there.
Corner Stone
@Glocksman: Damn man. I thought you was dead.
amk
@Mino: Thanks. If only she is this consistent and other dems develop this particular instant of backbonery, things coulda/woulda….
Glocksman
@arguingwithsignposts:
Believe me when I say that the company and the union have thought a lot about this issue, though for different reasons. :)
Amir Khalid
I was just reading A People’s History Of The United States a few weeks ago. Damn, if this doesn’t remind me of the stuff in Zinn’s chapters on the labor movement in America …
Mino
@arguingwithsignposts: Actually there is a solution out there developed by a Scotsman way back when (maybe during WWII?). He somehow managed to make a discrete packet of cool and shoot it a proscribed distance, whereupon, it opened and dispersed. Sounds like sci-fi, but that’s the way it was described to me.
Alex S.
@Mino:
Hmm, very nice. I consider Sen. Landrieu to be a skilled politician. The NC Dems must be doing something right, too. (As far as I know, NC is going to be a swing state in 2012 just as it was in 2008).
amk
OT.
Putin set to return as president in 2012.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-europe-15045816
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
They have paramedics standing by. That’s at least 100% better than Wal-Mart.
Amir Khalid
I guess what I don’t understand is, how are such clearly unhealthy working conditions not illegal in the US?
Dustin
Exactly Glocksman. Fans and water is the best you can do in a warehouse that size. As I mentioned the last time this was brought up at my place of employment we face similar conditions regarding the work pace, temp workers, and temperature.
The pace these workers are forced to meet is called MPPH (minimum pieces per hour). At my place of employment that number is generated by a one-way ratcheting program that calculates the average pieces per employee per hour for the last three months and then generates a 75% spread around it (25% lower = MPPH and 50% higher = GOAL). I call this a ratcheting formula because it will never, under ANY circumstances, be reduced but instead only climb. It’s a crappy formula, but a common one taught in nearly every Six Sigma warehousing logistics course you’ll ever encounter. If you consistantly can’t match the MPPH you’re disciplined and then fired. If you exceed goal… well all you’re doing is screwing yourself over but management counts on employees being too short-sighted (i.e. dumb) to figure that one out in numbers sufficient to stall out the productivity climb. Again, this is all industry standard once you get above Mom & Pop sized warehouses.
Temp workers are a fairly new problem that goes back to about the start of the Great Recession. Before that I never saw any, but starting about 5 years ago they became a staple part of warehousing. The work conditions burn out all but the most hardcore employees within a couple years. I go so far as to say that the half-life for warehouse employment is around 4 months, with half of all new hires quitting or being fired for productivity before that. Warehouses love employment agency hires because they’re short term; they can scale their workforce both up and down to match their logistics forcasts. Add in the cost-savings measure of not needing to pay for benefits and it’s an unfortunate fact of our economy right now that such workers would be irresistible. Warehouses still need their core full-timers to train the temps and do more complicated tasks like run the more demanding hauling equipment, but most jobs can be filled by temporary grunts without much issue.
Now the big one: the heat. Where I work it would cost roughly 600 million BTU per hour to cool the facility from 100F to 75F. That is, without a doubt, economically unsustainable. It can’t be done without jacking the humidity through the roof (evaporative mist conditioners), and high humidity is even more dangerous than high temperatures. The best you can do, or hope for, is to be provided with as much water as you need and to have enough fans to keep the air flowing. The article says that these were provided, that amazon has installed additional fans, and that they’re working on installing additional cooling capacity. That’s as good as you can get with a warehouse and if you take warehouse job expecting office conditions you’ll wash out in no time at all.
Warehousing is back breaking hard work. YOu’ll burn up in the summer and numb your fingers in winter. You’ll sweat through your shirt an hour after arriving and need a jacket a few months later. You’ll be forced to work harder and faster than you probably ever had in our life. If you go in and expect an easy job you’ll wash out: full stop. This is the nature of the business and it’ll go full automation before it ever changes. There are steps that can be taken to ease the environmental stress (which Amazon appears to have taken) but it will never be anything but a truly shitty job.
I’ve been in this business for over 10 years, starting as a grunt and working my way up to equipment lower management, and if you can think of a solution to these problems let me know. The bonus I could get for turnover reduction and productivity increases alone would net me a sizeable bonus ;-)
All in all Amazon’s still got my business, and if you’re seriously considering boycotting them look at the alternatives first because I can guarantee they’re the same.
Jay in Oregon
@JD Rhoades:
You’re just realizing this NOW?
cleek
DNFTT?
harlana
@Linda Featheringill:
YEP altho sometimes they WILL indicate temp to perm and then give you the boot once you’ve got them caught up, straightened out and corrected all previous fuckups, just because you care and want to be a good worker and maybe, just maybe, someone will recognize your efforts and, i dunno, maybe, perhaps reward you with a job
never happens
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Omnes Omnibus:
Holy fuck, mc has almost 25% of the posts in that thread alone.
Can we get John to give her a thread for herself and ban her ass from everywhere else? Her bullshit is fucking tiresome, it’s little more than endless anti-EDK spam and her glib, childish musings.
I scroll past her shit regularly but lately I have been shooting down pages faster because she is filling them with more worthless drivel.
Keith
The market will decide if working in a 100 degree warehouse is dangerous or not.
Glocksman
@Dustin:
We call it OPH (output per hour), but it doesn’t sound as if my TJX DC and your employer are very different from each other.
That said, the only reason the company cares about heat injuries is because it costs more to pay for their care than it does to ignore the injuries.
Dustin
@Keith:
Like I just said, if you can find a solution that doesn’t jack the humidity up or eat every last cent of profit please, PLEASE, let the world know. Otherwise the idea that you can take a million+ square foot metal box and make it anything but hell in a summer heat wave is naive at best.
@Glocksman: “That said, the only reason the company cares about heat injuries is because it costs more to pay for their care than it does to ignore the injuries.”
Exactly. In the scheme of cost vs benefit it’s in an employers favor to prevent productivity lag from heat related health issues. Excessive heat saps the strength and drive right out of you, and any employer that ignores that, that says to just “suck it up”, will fail as a business. Provide floor fans, bottles of water, cooling if able or even just a cool break room, medical response care when needed… these are steps that can be taken.
Chad N Freude
Isn’t this an example of unregulated capitalism working?
arguingwithsignposts
@Dustin: maybe a million square foot metal box isn’t a good idea generally from a heat standpoint. I know, fairy unicorns and all that. perhaps partitioning the box and using smaller air conditioners?
Also, how do other countries handle similar issues? Are heat-related injuries as common elsewhere. If not, why not?
I have also never understood the “ratcheting” formula that are used across all businesses – profits are always supposed to go up year-to-year. Maybe that’s why I’m not a businessperson/economist.
BGinCHI
It’s hot and dangerous where the company sends stuff out?
Isn’t that why the company is called Amazon?
Dustin
@arguingwithsignposts: Oh I understand the formula, but as long as you’re not brainwashed by college econ business classes you see it as the BS it us. That’s why I’m glad the brewery I help out with on the weekends is run by a family that’s said “screw growth, we’re just interested in good beer and good jobs”. When you get above small scale and detached ownership, when the boss isn’t out on the floor with everyone else, you end up with a Business By The Numbers style of strategic planning. That kind of thinking is why I cheer a little inside every time I watch Fight Club, because even though the movie was about the credit agencies that’s how I feel about most publicly traded companies. They lack a sense of community and basic humanity. They’re too interested in the profit projections to care about little things like if their janitor can afford to even buy the products they sell.
As for the air conditioning I’m not sure that partitioning helps because you’re still dealing with the same volume of space only with the added problem of deadening the airflow potential. Once you get above small scale there’s really not a happy solution to the issue.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
Inability to feel shame is another valid possibility. I think it’s a common trait among trolls, especially the obsessive, obviously want to have their target’s love child even if they’ll never admit it stalker type like certain trolls around here. If they had any shame, they wouldn’t be obsessive trolls in the first place.
harlana
what the fuck, let’s just go back to chaining little kids to machines in factories, those were the days! that’s the sort of stuff that gives libertarians woodies.
Dustin
Speaking of the brewery the boss says “we’ve got 45 bbl of amber ale to bottle today” so I should head out. Have a good one everyone, I’m pretty sure the I’ll be walking into a surprise Oktoberfest party since the brite tank wasn’t even filled yesterday and that takes at least 36 hours to get ready before bottling. ;-)
What can I say, the guy’s great but about as sneaky as a two year old in a cookie store.
Edit:
@harlana:
Oh for fucks sake harlana, lay off the sermonizing. Warehousing isn’t your cup of tea and there’s a widely circulated article by an author likewise ignorant, using 13 disgruntled employees who obviously got in over their head with unrealistic expectations, and that leads to glibertarian child sweatshops? No, and you’re doing an insult to all of us who actually do the job. So, kindly, take your pithy response and fuck off.
harlana
@Odie Hugh Manatee: but, you know guys, it takes all kinds; if you didn’t have what you deem to be trolls, there would be no troll fights and how boring would that be? i’m srs.
Chad N Freude
@harlana: No need to spend money on chains. Just lock all the exit doors that could be used to escape a fire.
Roger Moore
@arguingwithsignposts:
I’d think that attempts to keep so much heat from getting into the building would be a good start. A lot of warehouses are incredibly cheaply built. Some things like decent insulation, individual loading bays that can be closed when there’s no truck in them and don’t let much air in and out when there is, reflective paint on the roof, and the like could probably do a lot to reduce the heat load inside the building. That might make air conditioning affordable even if it didn’t eliminate the need for it completely.
Ash Can
@JD Rhoades:
Sounds like a basis for banning to me. (And I say this as someone who thinks that one of the best things about this site is that it almost never bans anyone.)
harlana
@Dustin: this happens with deregulation, it’s not that corporations are inherently evil, they are just doing what they were created to do, and when they start competing with each other, watch out. with no consequences for bad behavior, they really have no choice but to be a bigger asshole than their competition, if they can get away with it, if it will increase profits. as someone once said, “they have no soul to save”
harlana
@Chad N Freude: oh, yeh, well that goes without saying! cost of a few locks vs. cost of individual chains; guess locks were cheaper
capitalism!
John D.
@Roger Moore: The issue there is that every one of those solutions causes its own set of problems.
The #1 cause of heat buildup in ANY enclosed environment is the lack of convective cooling – the inability to exchange heat with a cooler air mass. When you start partitioning and enclosing, even with decent insulation, you are requiring an individual air conditioning input to that area. So, you are either drastically reducing the volume available for a warehouse’s primary function — storage — by adding a lot of duct work, or you are placing a AC unit on each of those areas, which leads to MORE head buildup outside of the specified areas.
This is not an easy problem — billions of dollars have been spent trying to solve it, and there still is no cheap and effective solution. Frankly, Amazon’s response to it matches what I have seen at other large companies like Dell, Sears, Best Buy, etc. Well, other than the modern push for robotic inventory handling and packaging, which is another solution, but not the one I think most people would like to see implemented everywhere.
Dustin
@harlana: Couldn’t you have just led with that response? Because now I feel like an overly sensitive asshole for snapping at you, lol. I apologize, because to be honest I’ve been having this argument since that stupid article came out with people trying to sympathize with my job and I have a feeling you just got some of the built-up ire.
And have I mentioned lately that stockholder demand is probably one of the most depraved concepts ever invented by man?
Again, peace out. I’ve got beer waiting for me and I think now I’ll be running late. :-)
harlana
@Dustin: I LOVE YOU!
Omnes Omnibus
@Ash Can: I think she is trying to get perma-banned, so that she can go on to her next host and crow that she was banned at B-J because “WEC cudlips cuudnt handle her troofs. Word.”
arguingwithsignposts
@Omnes Omnibus:
Cole has the patience of Job.
Of course, look at how der-f/nevgru keeps coming back. Maybe it’s just a common obsessive gene.
harlana
@Dustin: Dustin, no sweat, hyperbole is my M.O. (but this is the only place i can get away with it) – enjoy your brewskies!
Mino
@Roger Moore: One of the biggest things is raise the roof. Get all that baking air off the ground. Design for passive ventilation.
And yes, we could build smart, but there is a lot of standing inventory that will never be retro-fixed. I’d suggest to anyone in field to think about the coming weather and build as if you were in Midland in summer and Nova Scotia in winter. Lowered operating expenses (including human) would be a big item in keeping those spaces rented at premiums.
Roger Moore
@harlana:
So they’re not actually evil, they’re just amoral in a way that almost always results in evil unless there’s a monitor making sure they don’t step out of line. That sounds like a distinction without a difference.
Keith
@Dustin: That was sarcasm, genius.
harlana
@Roger Moore: well yeh, it’s just that corps are not actually people and should be treated more like profit creatures and, as you say, monitored accordingly – you can’t trust them to just “do the right thing” as libertarians do
Omnes Omnibus
It does seem that there are some jobs that will be tough, unpleasant, or just plain suck no matter what is done. Coal mining, septic tank pumping, and, apparently warehousing all seem to fall into at least one of these categories. This does not mean that we shouldn’t look for ways to make the jobs better or easier.
Southern Beale
Damn shame that white people can’t catch a break anymore, amiright? Thank you, Rep. Joe Walsh, for showing us who the real racists are!
Marked Hoosier
Really, high school, college, and NFL teams are flipping Ronald Reagan coins this weekend? Ugh…
MikeJ
@Roger Moore:
I’m not bad, I’m just drawn that way.
arguingwithsignposts
@Omnes Omnibus: But most of the people who could/should look into ways of making them safer/better are in air-conditioned offices wearing suits and counting numbers, so it’s not likely to happen. Unfortunately.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
And then she’ll harangue John Cole from wherever she chooses to infest the comment threads, over mistermix linking from here to EDK’s posts at Forbes and over whoever’s posts at LoOG. And a whole new audience will get to puzzle over locutions like wallah, WAI, MENA, freed market and maftoon.
Omnes Omnibus
@arguingwithsignposts: I don’t disagree.
Canuckistani Tom
I’m in the engineering consulting business, so I’ve seen all sorts of warehouses over the years.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is getting overheated because of having to wear heavy safety gear. Steel-toed boots, hard hats, protective clothing, etc. (This all varies due to industry and regs). In addition to plenty of water and standing fans at workstations, air conditioned break rooms and fans mounted on forklifts are other important ways of keeping the staff from collapsing.
It’s been noted elsewhere about designing warehouses that are better equipped to handle heat, and the day is coming when all these geniuses will realize that all that roof space would be perfect for solar panels, but the fact of the matter is that warehousing is one of those things that most companies tend to ignore. I’ve worked with multi-million dollar, publicly traded companies that are using WWII surplus Quonset huts as warehouses.
arguingwithsignposts
@Amir Khalid: It is interesting how mistermix has the ability to wind her up just like a little toy marching soldier and watch her spin out of control, isn’t it? The question then becomes: who’s trolling whom?
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: Do you think she will find another maftoon, if she goes, or are you her one and only?
Corner Stone
People mentioning partitioning have never seen a forklift driver on a warehouse dock.
Amir Khalid
@Southern Beale:
Goodness gracious. Is it not blasphemy to speak ill of Morgan Freeman? :-)
John Cole
That newspaper that wrote the Amazon piece is really solid. Check out some of the other articles. Where is it based?
arguingwithsignposts
@John Cole: San Jose Mercury News, although it’s being chopped up a lot these days as part of consolidation. I believe it’s won some pulitzers in the past.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Huggins picks the ears. “You’ve heard about evening games in Baton Rouge? They’ve never been to Morgantown”.
harlana
@Southern Beale: It amazes me that this guy managed to procreate because that means he actually got someone to sleep with him for free
harlana
here’s a game for you clever snarkers:
What Would a Libertarian Say?
Roger Moore
@Dustin:
Funny, because when the market value of the contents of a warehouse demands it, companies manage to find a way to keep the temperature under control. As long as there are refrigerated warehouses to store food, you’ll never convince me that the inability to keep other warehouses at livable temperatures are anything other than an economic issue. Employers just don’t care enough about the health of their workers to provide a safe working environment, and nobody is forcing them to care.
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
Sadly, I’m not her one and only, I already know that. She has also used that term on Reihan Salam; but then again, he doesn’t comment here. I guess she’ll have to spot another Muslim-identifying fellow commenter first.
ant
@John D.:
what about injecting the heat into the large ponds that you always see around big square buildings? The ponds could be shaded with trees, and the evaporation would naturally cool the water from wind.
Save a bit on the fan part of ac anyway. I’m not sure what percentage the compressor is of the total energy cost though….
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: I’m not sure that’s a fair comparison. Storage warehouses and freight warehouses are different beasts, IMO. For storage you can control and/or limit access and openings. For freight you have 24/7 men and machines moving goods up and down a huge concrete dock.
DonkeyKong
Another round of “Race Baiting Bake Sale Betty” from the college republicans in Berkeley. Ha ha ha, that shit never gets old.
BERKELEY — A Facebook post announcing plans by a UC Berkeley Republican group to sell baked goods priced according to race, gender and ethnicity – “White/Caucasian” pastries for $2 and “Black/African American” pastries for 75 cents, for example – has drawn outrage on campus.
“I’m ashamed to know that I go to the same school with people who would say stuff like this,” responded student Skyler Hogan-Van Sickle on Facebook. “I’m really trying to figure out how someone can be this hateful.”
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid: I think you meant O_O but I understand I’ve been on your mind recently.
Corner Stone
@DonkeyKong:
What an unfortunately named individual.
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hit the rong reply button. Sorry.
JD Rhoades
@Amir Khalid: @Amir Khalid:
He only played God in a movie.
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: the world is full of maftoons.
it means a muslim charmed by western culture.
Khalid admits to being one.
But i dont think i’ve ever called Reihan a maftoon….he is more of a cobo or a gunga.
Unlike Khalid he never mentions his religion….he cant– his base would crucify him. :)
cobo — colonized brown.
gunga– brown person carrying water for white people.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
No, no! I’m sure it was AL editing your post to make you look stupid. It’s a conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy! 11! eleventy
JD Rhoades
@harlana:
For free is right. He’s apparently 100K behind on his child support.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Samara Morgan: What about carrying the rock for the Dawgs?
Judas Escargot
Heard “moderate” Susan Collins on the radio this morning, talking about how all those poor, hard-working corporations need a “time-out from burdensome regulations” to get back on their feet.
WTF? This is their pushback?
jeffreyw
Bitsy making biscuits.
burnspbesq
@Dustin:
There are a number of construction options available to keep the temp down in a DC. You can start by growing plants on the roof. There is a recent article about a successful trial on a number of public buildings in Chicago.
You could also, I suppose, put a reflective glass curtain over the metal walls to keep direct sunlight away from the walls.
The easiest thing ,if you’re only running one shift, is to switch from 8-4:30 to 6:30-3 when hot weather is expected. Get half the shift in before it starts to get really hot.
Corner Stone
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Georgia at Ole Miss. Predictions?
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: ive called plenty of soi disant muslims maftoons on my Islam blog.
But you are the only muslim I know that actually denies the first pillar.
:)
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan: since you’re not the judge of who’s a muslim, i’d suggest you shut your ignorant pie-hole, but that would be useless, so I’ll just say, once again, you prove your absolute uselessness as a commenter. Even the 1 in 9,999 comments that do bear upon the discussion does not rise to the level of overcoming the other 9,998 useless comments you make.
Jennifer
@Dustin: Warehouses could easily be kept 10 – 20 degrees cooler with just a few simple modifications. The first being installation of radiant barrier insulation, which is fairly low-cost and will help keep the building much cooler in summer and much warmer in winter. The second being the Morrocan solution: in a multi-story warehouse, having a large central atrium that acts like a flue that extends through all levels which can be opened at the roof level. With air inlets at ground level, natural convection will keep the air flowing through the building.
Last but not least, it’s possible to air-condition a space to lower the temps to a healthier level without taking them all the way down to 70 degrees. Having AC backup to lower temps to 95 degrees on those days when otherwise the heat index will reach 115 inside is not going to break the bank for amazon. One of the major benefits there is that a/c, even if it’s not running to lower temps to 70 degrees will lower the humidity inside the building, making it both a safer and more comfortable space to work in.
Amir Khalid
20-odd years ago I was on a media visit to an oil refinery in Pasir Gudang, Johore. This was just after a drilling-platform fire in the North Sea off Britain had killed everyone aboard (if I recall correctly). At tea, I overheard a group of production-engineer types (hardhats, orange overalls) discussing the disaster. One of them said, to the agreement of his peers, and I’ll always remember it: “This just shows that there is no production without safety.”
Granted, an Amazon distro warehouse is no oil rig, but that doesn’t mean the same principle shouldn’t apply in both kinds of workplace.
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: you call out “christians” that deny the teachings of christ.
Khalid is a muslim that denies the teachings of the Prophet.
QED
Nutella
@JD Rhoades:
Yes, here’s a report from a warehouse in Ohio: http://motherjones.com/rights-stuff/2011/07/ohio-warehouse-temps-unemployment
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid:
the same principle does apply. the “innovation” of the “freed” market.
aka PROFIT!
regulatory capture is a feature, not a bug.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Corner Stone: Well, if they hadn’t just called back a 69 yrd Reb Td I’d be less confident that we’re gonna kill em!
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan: wtf does it matter? I don’t go around claiming frequent commenters on this board are not Christians, do i? Hell, you keep claiming we’re all WECs when many of us say we aren’t. You are apparently the all-wise, all-knowing queen of who is what religious persuasion. But you’re an idiot.
Nutella
This editorial in the New York Times tsk’s about this warehouse story and what it says about the loss of decency in American life and then goes on to blame the situation at the undoubtedly non-unionized warehouse on unions and tacky people like this:
The mind boggles.
arguingwithsignposts
@Nutella:
I would disagree. I think conservatives are either racist, under-informed, or greedy sociopaths.
Jennifer
It’s a floor wax and a dessert topping!
Elie
@harlana:
Me too and I will stop…
Mino
@jeffreyw: Cats do make the best supervisors. The weight of that unblinking regard.
Zagloba
OK, I just spent an hour and a half wrestling with my compubox to get it to pie SM. And now this thread is much more entertaining.
Amir Khalid
@Nutella:
A fine editorial about the amoral capitalist exploitation of the laboring classes, until Mr Giridharadas’ unfortunate attack of “both sides do it”. I wonder, what brought it on? Maybe he saw the conclusion he was heading for, and got spooked. It happens sometimes.
licensed to kill time
For someone who goes on and on about WEC proselytizing it strikes me that matokey_lokie does a fair bit of it herself.
She’s like a Jehovah’s Witness you spoke to once in a moment of weakness that relentlessly returns every weekend to ‘share’ with you some more whether you like it or not.
catpal
@JD Rhoades: Ohio too, at least.
Reported by Mother Jones
Its all about the Temp workers and treating them like crap — for extra profit. Sounds like your typical Republican to me — which they are as big ALEC supporters.
No more shopping at Amazon.com
Yutsano
@Samara Morgan:
Becuz only urs counts, amirite?
Jennifer
One other thing of note about that article: the lies that the temp agency and amazon use to attract employees are pretty much standard issue with any large company in this country anymore, and with quite a few smaller ones, as well. In the past 10 years I’ve worked for 3 or 4 different employers who all used this tactic – lie about potential earnings, company culture, and other things just to get you on the job…then go through the same charade with the next bunch of new hires in 6 months or a year when all the previous hires have quit or been fired. My last employer before I started my own business was particularly egregious – they had contracts they didn’t honor themselves, commission rates were whatever they decided they were at any given moment, and they had dozens of new tricks they would pull out about why they weren’t going to pay you what your contract SAID you would be paid whenever you finally managed to earn some money. They had a pitiful base “draw” that got taken back against your commissions, so it took months before you could ever even begin to pay it back…and then if it looked like you were going to actually come out over that base draw, they’d start playing their tricks. I can’t tell you how many times I had the “the Fair Labor Act says what you’re doing is illegal” talk with my manager. Of course, that meant I had to go…and of course they also had clauses about how they didn’t have to pay you commissions on sales you made that weren’t closed by the time you left…so they waited until they owed me about $12K to can me. I did end up getting all my money, because I refused to sign the BS termination notice the manager put together in which I “acknowledged” that I had received previous “warnings”…which I hadn’t. And so on and so forth. Bottom line, I think they were afraid they were going to get sued if they didn’t pay me, so I got paid. But…I’ve always wished I had a way of warning others not to work for them. Maybe there needs to be an Angie’s List for shit employers. Maybe I’ll make one.
Corner Stone
I want to destroy the people who greenlighted the Lowe’s “Don’t Stop, Doin’ What You Do” commercial.
I wish them ill.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Jennifer: Sounds like Steinbeck’s “In Dubious Battle”.
Mr. Stagger Lee
@arguingwithsignposts: Jeff Bezos the CEO and founder is Washington’s answer to the Koch brothers, try to implement an state income tax here and you will Tim Eyeman’s secret sugar daddy spring into action.
Jennifer
@Corner Stone: They’ll have to get in line behind whoever came up with that disgusting Zoosk ad with the hideous Kenny G background music playing while the plastic couple fumble around while trying to get it on. Someone needs to DIE for that.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@arguingwithsignposts: South Carolina as well.
Elie
My last employer used work from home as a kind of sweat shop for white collar workers. Initially, it was a great benefit but with a change in leadership, we got very poor staffing and little replacement of attrition. People began working very long hours and were isolated — allowing a very sick supervisor to bully and intimidate to suppress complaints. We were a bunch of work from home, internet shut ins — white collar for shure but abused nonetheless. Its still happening there though I have left …
This is the tip of the iceberg with Amazon and the move to get more “productivity” by employers is just going to make this an ongoing problem — esp with no unions and workplace employee complaint supression. Trust me, there IS retaliation if you say something…or share any reality confirmation with the other slaves err employees.
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: that is a lie, it is not my “interpretation”.
Khalid said.
The Noble Quran, which is the word of the Prophet Muhammed, forbids proselytizing the poor and ignorant. Shariah law is islamic jurisprudence derived from the word of the Prophet, written in the Generous Quran. Shariah law outlaws the proselytizing of the poor and ignorant…Freedom of speech legalizes proselytizing the poor and ignorant.
Khalid is your House Muslim, right Yut?
Corner Stone
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
“South Carolina!! C’mon and raise up! Take your shirt off, twist it ’round yo’ hand. Spin it like a helimacopter!”
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan: This reply is the definition of “interpretation”.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan: And yet you live in the United States, where freedom of religion (including proseletizing) and speech are the law of the land. Why are you here, muftoon?
Elie
@Jennifer:
And let me tell you, suing is not easy. Unless you are talking serious money that you are screwed out of (over 50K), the juice aint worth the squeeze, even if you hire a good labor lawyer on contingency. And once you sue, you can never work for that company or its related spin offs again because that is usually part of the settlement.
That said, esp for any white collar position, never — NEVER let yourself be forced out of a position without consulting a labor lawyer. Its worth the $200 consultation and they can help you with a “separation” from the employer that will get you a little protection and perhaps some severance that you may not have gotten if just forced to quit.
What hell I went through.
arguingwithsignposts
@Corner Stone: or what CS said.
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time: im not proselytizing. you cannot be in my religion.
I am explaining why we spent 10 years and 4.4 trillion dollars for nothing–freedom of speech democracy is incompatible with the Noble Quran.
And muslims cannot proselytize christians….we all believe in the same Allah.
Im a mevlevi sufi, membah?
Sufis believe that everyone has the faith (or lack of faith) they are capable of having.
xians should be xians, atheists should be atheists.
Man cannot acquire what he cannot use.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
Isn’t sufi just one “branch” of Islam based upon one interpretation?
Yeah, I thought so. Your blindness knows no bounds.
Anya
@Samara Morgan:
I thought you said you were Muslim? Tell me, what Islamic sect teaches about the quran being the word of the Prophet rathar than the word of Allah?
Samara Morgan
@Corner Stone: it is not.
im quoting the islamic scholars and jurisprudents that have made the interpretation.
neither Khalid or i are islamic scholars and thus cannot “interpret”.
Islam is not the same the same as xianity. Anyone can interpret in xianity.
That is not true in Islam, and it is in the Quran and hadith and sunnah.
In islamic countries, shariah law is the only law there is.
THE
Sorry to interupt you Saṃsāra.
I found the perfect movie for you.
Trailer takes a while to load.
Samara Morgan
@Anya: Allah spoke thru Mohammed, the Prophet of Allah. The Generous Quran is the word of Allah, and the word of Allah’s Prophet. It is the same.
Do you not know the first pillar?
Apparently Khalid does not.
(lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llāh)
There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His Prophet.
scav
SM fails many of our criteria (let alone interpretations) of membership in homo sapiens sapiens, but that’s ok, she prides herself on that (she boast above). girl’s got ambition: shit would indeed be a reach. And remember this, our attention and esteem is probably the best she can manage in her life as she’s so visibly desperate for it.
catpal
@John Cole: The Morning Call in Allentown, PA.
they are a good newspaper owned by the Tribune company.
licensed to kill time
@Samara Morgan:
You are proselytizing your wacky belief system – your EDK obsession, Assange worship, etc. It’s as repetitive as any religious whack-job haranguing about accepting Jesus into your heart, or waiting for the Rapture or the spaceship behind the comet.
You share many characteristics with those you profess to disdain, is what I’m saying.
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: Sufi is extreme muslim.
:)
all the sects are subsets of the superset [muslim].
Anya
Can we have an open thread, please?
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time:
since i have negative infinity hope of converting anyone here, it is not proselytizing.
me: but you front paged a union-bashing freemarketeer for months and mistermix still links him weekly!
Cole: crickets..
me: the LoOG is still on the blogroll!
Cole: crickets.
me: But you admitted you were wrong on Libya! why not Kain?
Cole: crickets.
Yutsano
@Anya: FOOTBALL!!
(in other words seconded. :)
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: yes, let us watch meatpuppets giving each other repeat concussion syndrome in the name of the Holy Freed Market.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
neither college nor pro football is a free market.
Yutsano
@Samara Morgan: You’re actually upset at me, child. I’m actually…giddy.
@arguingwithsignposts: When the NFL still has its own anti-trust waiver, yup.
licensed to kill time
@Samara Morgan:
So, what’s that definition?….Something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
JD Rhoades
@catpal:
The story specifically doesn’t identify the company as Amazon…in fact, one of the commenters observed:
I was asking about other Amazon locations.
Sloegin
Had a warehouse job for years to pay for schoolin’. Summer work, 90-105 degrees, unloading container trucks in the morning, loading UPS trucks in the afternoon, packing in-between.
Heat management was simple; we started shifts at about 4am and finished up around 2pm, and kept ceiling vents and all shipping doors open for ventilation.
We didn’t have humidity, so that was a big plus, but everything else boils down to those Amazon warehouse managers being sociopaths. Time the shifts appropriately and open the damn doors.
Might have helped that everyone who wasn’t summer work was a Teamster…
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Amir Khalid: Your patience is astounding, and admirable.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Yutsano: You really think that’s what he or she wants to talk about?
Dawgs 17 Rebs 7
Samara Morgan
@scav: lol.
if i wanted your esteem id tell you what you wanna hear…..like Maftoon Khalid.
Yutsano
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Friend is an Ole Miss alum. I dunno if he’s gonna be happy so far. I know he’s watching!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: Introspection? That’s a knee slapper, Omnes!
@burnspbesq: I always suspected Omnes of being a hoper, though sometimes he just gets bored.
THE
Saṃsāra
On the other hand there’s a version of the trailer on YouTube that loads much quicker for me.
Amir Khalid
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
So is the support from the, um, juicitariat, with respect to m_c.
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: are you seriously unaware of the commercial contribution of football to the american economy?
Dolt.
Jewish Steel
@Samara Morgan:
m_c, I think Frankenstienbeck made some good points which you failed to address:
For pity’s sake, MC, get this through your skull. Understand it. Dwell on it and learn from it.
YOU ARE NOT SMARTER THAN ANYONE HERE.
Your observations consist almost entirely of taking some simple principle that everyone else knows and pretending it’s a vast overarching rule that controls the cosmos. This is a great example. You are not a lone voice of beautiful reason who saw through EDK. You’re a spiteful child who rags on and on and ON AND ON about a poster whose posts were almost as argument-causing as ABL’s. You reduce a human being to a single word, although at least you’re not doing it this time in a blatantly racist way.
And then you publicly demand that everyone bow down to your wisdom, when you’re still operating at a 6th grade level of reasoning well below the more sophisticated arguments bouncing around.
Do you know who else thinks like you do, MC? Libertarians.
Also, you claim the mantle of science and you’re batting ABSOLUTE ZERO on your predictive models.
Maybe you’d like to take another crack at it?
EDIT: No WP, dont bother blockquoting you POS.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: they should support you….you are the BJ House
negroMuslim.How does it feel to be a token?
THE
I seem to be in moderation and I have no idea why.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Yutsano: He had a glimmer there after they scored and got the onsides but the Dawgs got back up off that thang!
Yutsano
@Jewish Steel:
Ouch. :) Prepare to get called an Old Way philosophy worshipper.
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): I’m thinking this game boils down to second half adjustments. As in Ole Miss adjusts or they die.
Glocksman
@Sloegin:
Indeed.
One of the reasons I support my union (I’m the shop steward for my area) is that I have health insurance and other costly bennies that most non union shops in my employer’s arena don’t have.
Though I proudly admit I voted against the last contract because it treated new hires worse (less allowed time off work) than it did those hired previous to 6/1/11.
scav
not my or anyone’s esteem mc, you’re not so much as idiot as to aspire to that. your an attention whore the same way a toddler throwing a tantrum is.
ETA: An intelligent person with a different viewpoint would actually be a step up.
Cassidy
I’d work in 100 degree weather. I’ve done it before. Doesn’t look so bad when you’re unemployed.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
sez the soi-disante non-racist.
Samara Morgan
@Jewish Steel: well, here is my rebuttal.
which you ignored. its downthread a bit so i’ll reproduce it.
libertarians are first culture intellectuals. i am a third culture intellectual.
libertarians derive their policy positions entirely from Dead White Male Phailosophy.
libertarians endorse the “freed” market.
i am an anti-capitalist and a hacktivist.
do you need more clarification?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Samara Morgan: Sammy. . .
Dustin
yup, I was right, there’s partying and fresh beer to be had (including an oak barreled 10 yr old lambic, the cheeky bastard). But seriously quick question since I obviously missed something: who the fuck is this newest troll and when did she get here?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Yutsano: 82 yard reverse punt return for the rebs,
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: why does that make me a racist?
do you know the definition of racism? what race am i promoting the superiority of?
calling someone a racist or an anti-semite means you lost the argument and you got nuthin’.
why dont you argue with me, Ibn Tamiyya to Ghazali style? tell me why you think what you do?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Dustin: For ever, it’s makato whatever. She’s my girl
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
Are you seriously unaware of how much of a non-free market big money football is?
Jewish Steel
@Samara Morgan: Oh! Well, that clears it up.
JD Rhoades
Me, too, but it’s always been outside.
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: Dead White Male Phailosophy.
Yutsano
@Samara Morgan: You’re getting predictable too.
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Of course right as I stop paying attention LOL. Of course the car dealer called too so I do have a minor excuse. :)
@JD Rhoades: I think that’s true for Cassidy too. But I’ll let him confirm or deny that. I just know what his former career was. :)
Dustin
ah, got it. They take her off her meds or something, because the Muslim lawyer soapbox personality seems new.
licensed to kill time
@Samara Morgan:
That’s pretty fucking offensive to Amir Khalid, who is one of the more thoughtful and intelligent commenters here. I spit upon your words and fart in your general direction.
arguingwithsignposts
@Amir Khalid: unbelievable. (not you, but the little asshole dead girl)
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: /yawn
my point being that no one is going to touch repeat concussion syndrome because american football is a money cow.
much like Big Tobacco in days of yore.
arguingwithsignposts
@Dustin: It only crops up when julian assange or the middle east or EDK or glibertarianism isn’t the topic of discussion.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
are those goalposts you’re moving heavy?
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time: i aim to offend.
Khalid is your House Muslim.
of course he tells you what you want to hear.
arguingwithsignposts
@licensed to kill time: I think this is a first time m_c has started stalking a commenter. Usually it’s front pages. I suspect her mental illness is getting worse.
Jewish Steel
@Yutsano: Wow. Nailed it in one. Bows to master.
scav
It is kinda funny watching the political spectacle of tea party activists (kitted out in tricorns ‘n’ gear) line up against the hacktivist fringe (masked up as guy fawlkes with their twitterizing magic feather). It’s like contestants from The Price is Right working themselves up to a World Wide Wrestling bout supposedly to determine the fate of the universe.
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time: and your House Muslim might say–
yet….10 years and 4.4 trillion dollahs later A-stan is still 99% muslim and Iraq is still 97% muslim, and Iraq is planting a boot in Americas ass in december.
so while Khalid might not see a reason…. i do.
Missionary democracy failed in Iraq and A-stan because freedom of speech is incompatible with shariah law.
do you have a different reason, a better reason?
LOL
licensed to kill time
@arguingwithsignposts: She exhibits all the self-awareness of a single-celled organism. I hope her doctors have a better treatment plan up their sleeves.
Cassidy
@Samara Morgan: I’m curious…do you actually know any Muslims? I’m really starting to believe the only Muslim you have contact with is the part time character on Bones. You certainly have no knowledge of the region or its people.
Samara Morgan
@scav: you forgot the V masks and the Troy Davis banners.
Sad for you isnt it? who do you support? do you support the teabaggers because you hate the hacktivists destroying your noble america fantasy?
Arlene
Catpal – I’ve been a subscriber to the Morning Call for about 30 years and it is not a good newspaper. In fact, it has gone downhill in the last two years. We now get the NY Times on the weekends to read a “real newspaper”. The Amazon article was surprisingly good. Every now and then the MC puts together a good series. Ironically, days before the Amazon piece ran, ISS (the temp agency that supplies Amazon) had a full page ad in the MC praising the workers, the area, etc. Coincidence, I think not.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan: reading FAIL.
Where do you think V got his mask from?
Samara Morgan
@Cassidy: i have a muslim blog. :)
and a mosque, and multiple shayyks.
Amir Khalid
@scav:
There’s a movie in that concept, I just know there is.
licensed to kill time
All I hear is the high-pitched whine of a persistent bloodsucking mosquito.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
and do you ever tell them how much of an anti-social asshole you are around here and ask them what they think about it?
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: ty, i didnt make the connection.
still, that isnt the point….juicers hate Assange and the hacktivists because they are being forced to see unjust America in all her ugliness.
you are not so different than the teabaggers.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@arguingwithsignposts: I hate to be all serious and nitpicky here, but can we not make light of mental illness, please? As Executive Director of a local NAMI affiliate, I am ideologically obligated to make that request. It’s kind of like making fun of people who’ve had strokes or cancer, except it’s (sadly still) socially acceptable. So please let’s think about that.
Also, too, it’s insulting to everyone who has or had a mental illness to compare a spoiled trustafarian poseur prone to repetitive tantrums to them.
arguingwithsignposts
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): noted. I did not intend to make light of those with mental illness.
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: you do not get it.
two and a half years ago i thought you guys were heros.
you aren’t even liberals.
everyone will suffer.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
I’d suspect most juicers have read widely enough to see that already without assange’s help, tyvm.
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: i have REPEATEDLY told the juicers im aspergers positive.
i dont care.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan: That’s your mistake thinking anyone on a fucking blog is a “hero.”
Answer my question, though: and do you ever tell them how much of an anti-social asshole you are around here and ask them what they think about it?
evap
@Samara Morgan:
Good one!!!
Samara Morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: what do you think?
i HAVE FUCKING ASPERBERGERS.
i have to be EXTREMELY careful in organic interaction not to become a pariah.
im a pariah here, but idc.
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan: So you have an excuse? Is that your defense?
There are several commenters on this board who have aspbergers and who don’t use it as an excuse to call people “House-whatever.” Seems like there would be another direction you could take.
So you want to be a pariah. Noted. And with that, I’m out.
Cain
You guys need to stop mentioning E.D. Kain in ANY thread. You’ll only curse the whole thread. Seriously.
JD Rhoades
@Samara Morgan:
This should come as a surprise to readers of my column and blog.
But maybe if you didn’t regard blog posters as “heros” you wound’t get so sputtering mad when they turn out not to be. Just a thought.
OOoooooh-kay…. backs away slowly
JD Rhoades
@Cain:
If I say his name three times in a mirror, will he appear and kill me?
licensed to kill time
Big Kahuna AsperBergers. That’s that Hawaiian burger joint. I hear they got some tasty burgers. I ain’t never had one myself. How are they?
scav
@Samara Morgan: and you use it as an eternal self-justifying excuse to be a fucking asshole yourself and then pride yourself on both conditions.
Cassidy
@arguingwithsignposts: Reminds me of Glee from this week….self-diagnosed Asperbergers.
Cain
@Cassidy:
I thought you were going into training at a police academy. (crap.. now I got the police academy movie theme in my head.. curses)
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@arguingwithsignposts: Indeed, you make the astute observation that most people with Aspbergers aren’t assholes. Thank you for pointing that out, not that it will make a difference.
Cain
@Amir Khalid:
What might be needed is constant linking to EDK, we might be able to create a vortex that might keep her from posting temporarily.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Samara Morgan: who cares?
Cain
@JD Rhoades:
Don’t know.. but he might appear if you say Ayn Rand three times. :-)
Most certainly, a certain poster will show up and start posting non-stop with the same post. She’s fairly predictable, she brings nothing to the table.
I just skip her posts, which is hard when there are so many of them.. but I’m developing the skill well.
contessakitty (AKA Karen)
@Elie:
When you say “forced out” do you mean that situations are made so unbearable that you leave? How about if your job might be eliminated because of automation? I’m a researcher and an editor but part of my job may be gone because they’re working on automation but also because it seems that editing, correcting and quality control with data aren’t tangible or “useful” skills….
Cassidy
@Cain: That was the plan. But the temporary work I was counting on to get through and still feed the family didn’t pan out. Was staying with my sister and we had a blowout, but that was waiting to happen anyway. Let’s see, probably applied for over 200 jobs in the past two months from digging ditches to management trainee and the only one I’ve heard back from is to go overseas as a contractor. So it looks like I get to go back to the ME and carry guns again. Yay for me. But that’s not a done deal either. So, yeah…not fun.
So honestly, if I could get a warehouse job where all I gotta do is pick shit up and put it down, I’d jump at it.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Cassidy: You re-uppin or contract?
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
If you’re currently being treated for your Asperger syndrome, you might want to speak to your doctor about the wisdom of continuing to post comments on blogs in a way that provokes unfriendly replies. I don’t know how you are in meatspace, but there’s a real possibility that what we see here might be part of a behavior pattern that also manifests itself in face-to-face encounters.
Your doctor would likely advise you to refrain from behaviors that make it difficult for you to get along with other people. This (even in cyberspace) might not help with keeping yourself in the right frame of mind to manage your condition.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Amir Khalid: Oh boy, I can’t wait to read the reply to this!
Cassidy
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Contract.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Cassidy: Watch yer topknot.
arguingwithsignposts
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): over half the thread spent on this. sigh. this is why we can’t have nice things.
ETA: 24-13. close game.
Cain
@Cassidy:
I’m sorry dude. :( Must be quite stressful for you. I hope things works out.. let us know from time to time. Wishing you the best of luck!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@arguingwithsignposts: We are playing terribly.
Socolofi
I’ve worked at the Amazon warehouse in Fernley, NV (about 40 minutes east of Reno – aka middle of the frickin’ desert). It gets very hot in summer, very cold in winter.
Amazon is pretty ruthless about efficiency, and they’re upfront about it. Don’t know if the temp agency in PA sold people a bill of goods, but everyone knows the deal after the first day’s training.
One stupid thing about the article – Amazon doesn’t like to lose good workers, because good workers are more efficient than new ones. Churning through people is dumb, as you can’t get things done, and eventually you run out of locals. They know this. So they’re very prompt on addressing problems in the warehouse that affect us – eg weather-related or whatever.
We also get a pretty decent bonus for safety if there aren’t incidents – which yes, means the senior guys berate the rookies when they do things unsafe. Again, it’s all up front.
There’s always people to say how much it sucks. It’s hard, honest work, and some people can’t or don’t want to do it. Fine. But I appreciate that I’m not being replaces by a robot.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): That would be two of us. And of course it shows just how thoughtful and gracious Amir Khalid is, which stands in rather stark contrast…
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Roger that.
arguingwithsignposts
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): at least you got rid of those atrocious uniforms. :)
Cassidy
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Heh…lots of money, this company doesn’t offer benefits (I think), and no CAS. Good news is the contract is one of the more sedate areas that never had a lot of fighting, so hopefully it’ll be a breeze. Really odd part is that the medic positions require you to be EMT-I, which the Army trains to but we’re only certified as basic. Kinda irritating since the SD set the requirements. You’d think they’d know who the bulk of the applicants came from. That’s why I say it isn’t a done deal. PMC recruiter is submitting me up anyway, but that one piece might alter things. Is what it is.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Cassidy: Typical. I hope it goes well.
I like the sound of “Doc” Cassidy!
Omnes Omnibus
@Cassidy: Best of luck and be fucking careful.
Yutsano
@Cassidy: So you more or less get to sew up the stupid fucks who couldn’t keep it in their holster or their pants. Fun. But a job’s a job.
@Omnes Omnibus:
This. Also. Too.
Elie
@contessakitty (AKA Karen):
Yes, the situation was made unbearable. My VP literally left me out of meetings, made up lies that she then wrote up to begin the formal “discipline” process.. Yes — forced and humiliated — threatened with being summarily fired at any point in this series of events. That is when I sought legal advice. I still quit but I had some severance and other protections so they couldnt bad mouth me to future employers.
I would say any “force out” circumstance should be discussed with a labor lawyer just in case… Once you know you are headed for the dump pile, you have to protect yourself any way that you can..
By the way, since my departure, three others have or are being “forced out”. No, the parent company seems oblivious.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Yutsano: Clear the air passage, stop the bleeding.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Cassidy: As Omnes* said and Yutsy* seconded, best of luck and be fucking careful.
* I hope the diminuitives are acceptable; they’re meant cyberaffectionately
Cassidy
@Yutsano: Lol…I’m hoping that these guys aren’t cowboys. It isn’t Blackwater/ Xe/ whatever the fuck they are now, so I’m really hoping for some pro’s. As for the pants part, I always had a rule: if you had something dripping or burning from your no-no place, I don’t get paid enough to see it, but the “Sir” does.
Elie
Just a question:
Why is it four or three on one with Samara?
If you don’t like her or what she comments, why reply to her instead of ignoring?
Why hijack this thread with that pointless string — she doesnt give up and you guys are not going to convince her that she is wrong or that she is some horrible creature from Mars. That Uncle Tom asshole and others hang around here all the time making incredibly stupid and vile comments and I don’t see it treated this way.
What gives here? Am I missing something?
Yutsano
@Elie: I think young white girl we have more hope for than the old privileged white male with the racist nym. Or something.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I accept your diminutive in the spirit it is given. :)
@Cassidy: A lot of these outfits attract the more cowboyish elements that the military tries to wash out. Having said that, there are just as many highly professional outfits as well. They really should sue Erik Prince into oblivion for ruining their reputation like that.
Cassidy
@Elie: You actually have a good point and here is my best informed response. From Uncle Tom, etc. we expect and accept a certain level of vitriol and insults. As to M_C, etc. at multiple points in time, everyone here has defended and tried to intelligently engage her, as she is a very smart person. I’m assuming “she” based on her handles. But, going from one topic where things are fine and then the next getting added to he list of “cudlips” as you dared to disagree has been, to a certain extent, aggravating.
Personally, I like her. If nothing else, she’s dedicated. My only real qualm with her is her assumption of speaker for the Muslims. I’m not sure my Muslim friends (terps I worked with and keep in contact with) would agree with her assessment and seem insulted when one of us Westerners think we’re speaking for them. It’s insulting all the way around.
arguingwithsignposts
@Elie: UCT doesn’t clog up threads every time someone mentions EDK or Freddie DeBoer. UCT doesn’t reply, and doesn’t really try to make a point, other than that he’s a worthless shit. If I had my druthers, both m_c and UCT would be banned. But I’m not the blog host.
I’ve taken on Yevgru/der-f before and Timothy dickenschlongen too, so you’re not missing anything.
rageahol
Trading actual human (albeit low-paid) labor for “intellectual property” rent-seeking and cartelization?
not sure that’s as good a deal as you’re making it out to be.
suzanne
@Mino: Actually, evaporate coolers are indeed less effective in humid climates than in dry ones.
I have a MS in building science and a MArch. I know of what I speak.
licensed to kill time
My excuse is that I have all those other obnoxious commenters pie’d, and I expect a lot of other folks do too, so you don’t see many replies to them. For some reason I haven’t pie’d m_c yet, probably because she wants me to.
Anybody who has neat ideas for pie filter comments should go over to cleek’s pie filter suggestions and leave them there. There’s a certain authorial satisfaction that comes from seeing one of your suggestions turn up in the awesome pie filter ;)
Yutsano
@suzanne: Elitist. :)
Amir Khalid
@Elie:
Also, Uncle Clarence Thomas doesn’t pop up in comment threads just to call me that name …
worn
@Far Too Many BJer’s: Yet another fucking thread that you-know-who has managed to make revolve about her nugatory noodlings – Good Lord she plays y’all like a fiddle.
Honestly, reading this back and forth it to me resembles nothing so much as a melding of the legend of Prometheus and the infamous 2nd tale in the Joel Chandler Harris book I own.
I just really don’t know why y’all do it…
scav
@Elie: Pretty much what @Cassidy said . Most days i can just ignore her and some days she just insists on more slack than I have readily available. (don’t pie her as that’s a step too nearer the echo-chamber for me.) She brought up the Aspergers a long time ago, which got her extra rope but she did keep insisting on tying it all in running bowlines. I doubt anyone expects her to change, either after direct personal attention or otherwise, so why privilege one form of communication over another? Amir is a better person than I can manage, certainly with her: I done wore out. Sometimes the indirect stuff is more along the lines of discussing the weather: oh, look, another hurricane. Don’t expect the hurricane to respond constructively or change course. Passes the time.
All the best to Cassidy.
suzanne
@Elie:
‘Cause it’s funny. She’s a total racist trustafarian hypocrite and a moron, and I enjoy giving her shit.
Though I do have to say, she’s been a lot less funny as of late, and it’s dawning on me that she probably doesn’t get any other meaningful human interaction (she’s probably just like this IRL), and that’s why she so desperately returns every time she gets banned.
suzanne
I don’t know why I misspelled “evaporative” in my earlier post. Well, I DID go to Arizona State. ;)
suzanne
I find it hilarious that FourLoko_chan thinks that E.D. Kain “spoofed” us or some shit. Every thread he started turned into calls for his fucking head from pretty much everyone. I can’t think of a regular poster on this blog that didn’t get into it at some point with him. I haven’t seen anyone say that they miss him.
However, in FourLoko’s world, this was apparently our way of showing affection and getting “spoofed”.
THE
@Amir Khalid:
I suspect, that she really does want to discuss the issues she raises with you – about freedom of speech etc.
I think she is actually trying to provoke you into talking about it. I suspect she doesn’t know how to approach it except in this confrontational way.
suzanne
@THE: Nah, she just wants to yell at him for not being Muslim enough or something.
Yutsano
@THE: No. She wants him to confirm she’s absolutely right since she obvs knows Islam better than the man who grew up in and around it all his life. All she wants is to flaunt her perceived superiority about that as well.
@suzanne: Or wot u said.
Cassidy
I don’t think she’s racist. I think she’s sheltered with very simple notions of race.
THE
@suzanne:
Yes, but I think her underlying anxiety is about not being muslim enough herself.
Corner Stone
@suzanne:
I want to make a bad joke about treating a building that has a cold, but haven’t figured out how to put it together yet.
THE
@Yutsano:
I think this is something I often see in late-life converts. Because their conversion is intellectual, they pay more attention to the surface theory than the deeper complex and subtle practice.
Corner Stone
@suzanne: To be fair, a lot of people here were giving EDK atta boys as he “transitioned” on his journey while here.
He was pretty transparent AFAICT but I do agree some thought his reflections were for real. His subsequent posts elsewhere after he left BJ disprove that notion.
Amir Khalid
@THE:
What Suzanne said. We actually did discuss this at the time, m_c and I, and did not come to agreement. I left it at that, but she can’t. If I responded to her baiting now, that wouldn’t get her off my case.
I don’t think it’s about me as such; rather, it may well have something to do with her Asperger’s. The Wikipedia article on it says that compensatory training in social skills is an important part of managing the syndrome. As I said #246, managing her interactions offline, and online, is probably what her doctor would recommend.
scav
@Corner Stone:
Well, if we could warp it around somehow into converting it to a building that is cold, we could sell it Amazon et al., save lives, make a million and warp it back to On-Topic in a single swell foop!
THE
@Amir Khalid:
I think you are very right to say that she is not helping herself by being so irritating online. It perpetuates bad habits that she would be better training out of herself consistently everywhere.
Perhaps it is her secret vice.
suzanne
@Corner Stone: But, as I said, no one wants him back. No one bought what he was selling. He didn’t convert anyone to glibertarianism. So how did ANYONE here get “rolled”?
@Cassidy:
She profits from her unexamined white privilege, and is unapologetically prejudiced. She’s sheltered with very simple notions of EVERYTHING. Not surprising, as she’s a rich white girl supported by her parents.
@Corner Stone:
LMAO. Actually, it’s kind of a losing game to heat or cool a building as large as a warehouse. It’s a huge energy suck and would contribute to heat island effect. The better way to go, and what all the cool (heh) experimental engineers are trying to figure out is how to cool the person rather than the entire space. Time and resources would be better spent making uniforms out of breathable fabrics with cooling gel inserts.
Corner Stone
@suzanne:
I think the argument is the reverse. Some people here bought into his conversion from a glibber to a libber. He seemingly struggled through a transition into a place where he was calling himself a liberal. Lots of people congratulated him on that seeming revelation, IIRC.
Not saying he brought people along to a different viewpoint but rather he feigned a change. And it seemed to work as he got a paying gig shortly thereafter. Hmmm, that seems familiar somehow.
In any event, I think he’s just bogus.
Corner Stone
@suzanne:
Yes, I worked for a freight company at one time. In Houston, TX. Shift work that went 24/7.
I think a lot of people here making the argument about working to cool the space may have never actually seen a 24/7 concrete dock working at full capacity.
I agree with your short assessment, Ms. Fancypants Bookster.
suzanne
@Corner Stone: I concur that he’s bogus. I guess I just don’t see why FourLoko would give a fuck if people believed E.D. if he lied about what he believed. (Considering that this is a political opinion blog, and the writers of political opinion blogs are known for stating their political opinions, I don’t know why anyone would have suspected that he was making shit up out of whole cloth.) He’s gone and no one seems fooled enough to want him back.
It’s such a navel-gazing pile of who gives a shit. The fact that she rants and raves over something so inconsequential speaks volumes out of her personality, or lack thereof.
Corner Stone
Nothing to fire up the WhoGivesAShittanator about, as my nemesis Dr. Doofenschmirtz would say.
Mino
@suzanne: Yes, true. They are less effective, but they still work well enough. And they are inexpensive self-contained units that could have been used in that situation as temporary cooling stations.
brettvk
@Jennifer: That is an excellent idea. Maybe you could get startup help from a union or Mother Jones magazine. An online database of corp behavior might be a starting point for organizing. At least it’d give us peasants a thrill to vet employers the way they’re examining us.
El Cid
__
I think you mean recyclable cogs — wouldn’t want to be eco-insensitive.
Kathleen
@harlana: I think one reason is they don’t want to pay a fee to temp agency. Although I worked a temp assignment with a couple of people who were hired permanently. I assume the employer may have waited to avoid the fee.
Samara Morgan
@suzanne:
sure they did. he was selling his pageclick count to Forbes and they bought it.
Cole bought Kains fake-conversion narrative. He made a half dozen posts about it. Kay bought it. Aimai bought it. DougJ tole me Kain was a liberal. … and mixie still links him every week.
and his site is still on the blogroll.
Cole said he was wrong about Libya.
bravo!
notice i dont bitch about Coles Libya posistion anymore.
Why cant he say he was wrong about Kain?
Nutella
@suzanne:
Privilege? Surely not. Did you miss her stirring and very wordy defense of the downtrodden foxhunting class?
Samara Morgan
@suzanne: every post?
you slow-witted cow.
it was a fucking tent revival.
and that creepy little freemarket fucktard couldnt pass for liberal even with mixie and Cole wetnursing him 24/7.
/spit
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: i made a mistake when i came here. i thought this was a liberal blog.
instead there is a token glibertarian frontpager du jour, and the LoOG on the blogroll.
And of course Ogra, who is the very first liberal i have ever heard use the term “shariah-ridden brown babies”, and who accused me of wanting to be in a “harem”.
Is AL a racist? hahahaha!
And i have asked you repeatedly to justify your denial of the message of the Quran about Proselytizers.
and you wont do it.
Samara Morgan
@Nutella: you know nothing about foxhunting and you never will, because it is poisoned with class envy for you.
from my old blog.
Samara Morgan
you see…its just like Julian says.
no one gives a fuck about the material.
it seems like BJ would be grateful to have an islamic perspective on why America lost the war for hearts and minds in the ME.
So you all furiously deny that im a muslim and seek instead the opinion of an amiable maftoon who agrees with you that America is teh bestest!
bi la kayfah
suzanne
@Samara Morgan: Um, not only do I think Cole was being sarcastic (if you really do have Asperger’s, then you might have a hard time picking up tone in writing), you’ll see that a good number of the commenters said that they didn’t want a fucking right-wing front pager. More than one person asked for a mega-leftist.
NO ONE turned libertarian on this blog because of Kain. NO ONE. If the guy said that he changed his mind, then it’s not an intellectual failure to think that he, you know, CHANGED HIS FUCKING MIND. In fact, if I recall correctly, one of the few readers of this blog who used to be a libertarian was, in fact… you.
And I think you’re a Muslim like I think Pat Robertson is a Christian. You can identify yourself however you wish; that’s your right. I do think the fact that you think you can try the identity of different cultures on for the purpose of being “revolutionary” or “iconoclastic” displays that you’re absolutely soaking in white privilege, and you have absolutely no intention of giving that up.
suzanne
@Samara Morgan:
We’ve heard it. Like, ten thousand times. Many of us don’t find your thoughts on the matter very incisive or penetrating. If we did, we’d be reading your blog instead. So get a new hobbyhorse.
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan:
I would not have linked that post.
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan:
That does sound interesting. Do you know any?
THE
@Samara Morgan:
Ah I see my previous comment to you is out of moderation now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: So is this your GBCW comment?
suzanne
@Corner Stone: That foxhunting post was the funniest fucking thing I’ve read in MONTHS. I read it aloud to my husband. LMMFAO.
Omnes Omnibus
@suzanne: Sounds like a completely different person, doesn’t it?
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: We should be so lucky.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: I wouldn’t be surprised if the Samara incarnation is gone though.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: She might try re-nyming and attempting to fool us into thinking she’s a new duck. Good luck though. She can’t help but revert to her mean.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: Oh, I totes expect that.
licensed to kill time
@suzanne:
That first comment by ‘Dymphna’ sounded awful spoofy to me – I caught a whiff of a Sarah Proud and Tall vibe, if SPT had been around in 2005.
suzanne
@licensed to kill time: I love the last comment about boner pills. LMMFAO.
Her incoherence leaves a distinct fingerprint. Even that blather about foxhunting was riddled with her signature errors.
licensed to kill time
@suzanne:
I suppose a blog title like Hot Needle of Inquiry attracts the boner pill spam like a magnet.
THE
I don’t think it’s an important question. For now, USA needs the oil. By 2020 or so, I project China will be the largest oil importer. Let them worry about the ME.
As far as I can see USA has no essential, long-term interests in the ME. Certainly I see no reason why US should sacrifice so that China can have cheaper oil.
Greyjoy
Because unfortunately there are still nine or ten looneybirds in high office who want to foment Armageddon so Jesus comes back. As long as they’re in power or bringing others of their ilk to power, the US will be involved in Israel, which means the rest of the Middle East.
And shut the fuck up Samara/about Samara. All I’ve ever seen her post is a bunch of arguing and baiting other posters, which I doubt represents the Muslim perspective but certainly represents the annoying thread-spammer perspective. Now I just had to skip half a thread just to try to find the interesting bits that actually had discussion in them. Can somebody ban her already or what?
As for Kindle using Overdrive, I guess then that either Kindle decided to add the EPUB format to their collection, or Overdrive decided to add the AZW format to theirs, because previously only EPUB e-readers could use Overdrive. Which is every e-reader except the Kindle.
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time: its from Ringworld.
the HNoI was a kzintzi torture device and also the spaceship Louis Wu and Speaker-to-Animals and the Pearson’s Puppeteer used to get Teela Brown to the RingWorld. i guess it kinda worked out like that for me.
Samara Morgan
@Corner Stone: why? that is exactly who i was six years ago.
young and naive.
i still love the hunt….and none of the commenters here ever will.
they wont ever experience it– they can’t. its beyond their grasp.
Samara Morgan
@Corner Stone:
i told you.
missionary democracy with freedom of speech is incompatible with shariah.
thus, 10 years and 4.4 trillion dollars later, A-stan is still 99% muslim and Iraq is still 97% muslim.
bi la kayfah
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan:
It’s beyond the grasp of 99% of the US population as well. I tend to think that post is in furtherance of their point.
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan: It’s just my opinion but I believe bombing wedding parties caused more damage in the “hearts and minds” category than offering peoples free speech.
Have any of your many shayyks offered a perspective you’d care to share?
THE
@Samara Morgan:
In its maximum abstraction, freedom of speech is incompatible with all known legal codes. Are you free to issue death threats? Are you free to conspire to commit crimes? Are there laws against false advertising and fraud?
Many democratic jurisdictions including mine limit “hate speech”.
The question that is relevant for the functional organization of democracy is whether peaceful political speech is free. Above all, are you free to criticize or disagree with the government.
THE
In my country it is illegal to advertise cigarettes. This is a limit on free speech.
suzanne
@Corner Stone: I can’t get over how ludicrous she is. Waxing poetic about foxhunting? REALLY? And then wondering why we all think she’s a privileged little POS?
I suppose she should stick to what she knows. Like how Martin Luther got kicked out of the Catholic Church for being anti-intellectual. She’s read the 95 Theses, she knows.
Oh. Wait…
Samara Morgan
@suzanne:
@Corner Stone: its really hard for you to admit it, but muslims loathe missionaries.
the US sought to promote ME democracies because they believed democracies would be friendly to the US.
Islamic democracies will not be friendly to the US.
Because when muslims are democratically empowered to vote, they vote for more islam, not less, and never for missionary democracy with freedom of speech.
This is empirically obvious in Iraq.
Every friday since februaray there have been demonstrations in Iraq. One of the consistant themes is to expell the american occupiers. EVERY FUCKING FRIDAY. Do you see this in American news?
Yet Iraq has a “democracy”. Just not one that is ever going to be friendly to us.
Samara Morgan
@suzanne: isqueef is a LoOG blogger now. Superluminar turned and came slinking back after Kain’s Beyond Unions post. AWS called Kain “Our EDK”.
do you want to see the links?
but that is not the real damage Kain did.
Ask Kay about his “Labor Roundtable”.
i dont think Cole was being sarcastic. but you could be right.
i think it would be epic if Cole admitted he was wrong about Libya on his blog– i only saw it on twitter.
THE
But why is this a problem for the US really?
I understand that US has a temporary interest in getting the oil out, and Saddam’s military adventurism was perceived as a threat, whether you accept the WMD angle or not.
But as long as the oil gets out and there is no tyrant starting regional wars to disrupt that, why does the US need to stay?
I believe, a decade or two from now, the world will be moving off oil and fossil fuels big-time. OECD oil consumption is already down over 7% compared to the peak year of 2005.
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan: So you don’t have any actual commentary from any of your shayyks that you feel comfortable sharing with us?
Samara Morgan
@Corner Stone: sure i do.
and ive shared this before.
Corner Stone
@Samara Morgan: I meant about the ME, which I am sure you knew.