For whatever reason, liberals never talk this way:
“No other candidate on that stage has the record that I have,” Perry said. “Yep, there may be slicker candidates and there may be smoother debaters, but I know what I believe in. And I’m gonna stand on that belief every day. I will guide this country with a deep, deep rudder.”
Perry is trying to make up for his uneasy debate performance in Orlando on Thursday night. Borrowing a line from President Ronald Reagan, Perry declared: “It is time for bold, bright colors, not pastels.”
I’m still hoping that Perry Goldwater can get through the primary and deliver us from a competitive election, but my confidence is flagging. Also too, can you take six months of establishment media fluffing Mitt Romney? You could land a 747 on those shoulders. He stood up to the extremists in his party. The Republicans showed that they still are a serious party by rejecting Perry and Bachmann.
Gin & Tonic
The liberals who do talk that way don’t hold office for very long. See: Grayson, Wiener, et. al.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Except Perry is the perfect fit, if Republicans accept who they are. He’s destroyed and discarded the largest number of people in the US in his pursuit of stripmining the country of its assets for the wealthy.
Jenny
Perry’s god (Jesus) is stronger than Romney’s god (Joesph Smith).
El Cid
For a contrast, Obama speaking at the Congressional Black Caucus awards banquet, just a few hours ago.
The unfortunate headline making the rounds from the AP:
I’m still wondering about the significance of the “darkened” Washington convention center. I don’t know if they mean a power loss, or perhaps that as usual lights focus on the speaker rather than the crowd, or that there was more melanin absorbing light than usual.
slag
…straight into the ground.
Omnes Omnibus
Probably because we don’t consume enough sizzurp.
El Cid
@Gin & Tonic: Or Dennis Kucinich, or Maxine Waters, or Ron Dellums, and so forth.
LM
I hadn’t thought about the starbursts type comments we’re doomed to hear re Mittens! Gaaaak!
Jenny
Pastels?
Parry might as well call Mittens a faggy, french speaking, cultist from Taxachusetts.
Kane
I’m not a slick candidate and smooth debater, I’m you.
different-church-lady
You know what, Rick? It’s probably time someone started to look at the condition of the foundation and not so much at color palate of the fuckin’ drapes.
El Cid
By the way, does Perry’s faux-twang colloquial talk get transliterated as much as Obama’s “y’all”s etc?
Zifnab25
Wiener got canned because he decided to text his junk to half the eligible bachelorettes in Brooklyn. Grayson won his seat in a purple-red district during a Democratic wave year and lost it in a Republican wave year. I wouldn’t walk away from these two candidates and conclude it was their outspoken nature that did them in.
That said, Republicans need this kind of strong, energizing rhetoric because their policies are generally terrible. I don’t see why people continue to express shock at the verbal artistry of grifters like Perry or Palin.
What other jobs skills do you expect a man to hone when his job is to talk the elderly out of their Social Security checks?
Omnes Omnibus
@Kane: But are you a witch?
4tehlulz
One of them has to be VP if he wants the Mormon haters to even think of voting for him.
JPL
Christie is going to ride his white horse and save the day for the
rebsrepublicans. Did I say it was a white horse and a big white horse.Jenny
@El Cid: Looked pretty “darkened” to me.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Ku2RGbFLajw/610x.jpg
Calouste
@JPL:
A white elephant seems more appropriate for Christie.
Spaghetti Lee
“It is time for bold, bright colors, not pastels.”
Rick Perry for National Furniture Salesman 2012.
Jenny
@JPL: Horse? Christie is gonna need a semi.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9607/fatvz.jpg
Can you imagine how the media would go on if a Democrat was that disgustingly obese.
Mark S.
I can’t believe how quickly Perry is tanking. It took most goopers three years to admit Palin is an idiot but it only took them three weeks to figure that out about Perry?
Spaghetti Lee
@El Cid:
I think I just heard the sound of every writer at NRO swooning and opening their smellingsalts.
General Stuck
Perry needed to tone down the SS is teh evil and should die rhetoric, and he hasn’t. Doubling down on it instead. Even wingnuts won’t put up with that kind of incendiary Rhetoric for that beloved program. Especially in Florida.
If he had dialed it back some with SS needing reform and the usual winger line of privatize it, he would have been okay with GOP primary voters, though not so much with a GE.
And his debating prowess is something along the lines of Tourette Syndrome. My take on the guy, is that he probly doesn’t really want the nomination, let alone being president.
suzanne
Holy shit, it’s apparently Make-Superfluous-Attacks-On-People-For-Their-Weight Day around here. I would like to think that we could all do better than that.
On topic, I’m getting pretty damn concerned that Mitt Romney the Sociopath is the least horrifying option on that side of the aisle. Holy SHIT.
Spaghetti Lee
@suzanne:
To be fair, we make fun of thin bony people like Coulter and Rick Scott, too.
JPL
@El Cid: you have to understand that some folks don’t use g’s. AP has to hire to G impaired to meet certain quotas.
If someone from MA runs then AP will hire the R impaired folks.
Spaghetti Lee
@JPL:
Their apostrophe key seems ta’ be workin’ mighty fine, though, y’all.
JPL
@suzanne: hey..as el cid pointed out, AP hires G impaired folks.
Disgruntled Lurker
@Jenny:
Meh. He’s a big dude, but not disgustingly obese.
The wind is pretty clearly not helping his wardrobe in that pic.
JPL
@Disgruntled Lurker: lol..
Not sure if you were around but John onetime tried to say Tunch just looked large in photos because of his hair and needed to be brushed. Oh, and Tunch has a small head also, too and that makes a difference.
The Dangerman
I’m flashing back to the joke about 3 men pissing off a bridge that ends with “and deep, too”.
suzanne
True dat, but we rarely discuss their bodies at all, and when we do, we don’t use “skinny” in a pejorative sense to serve as a metaphor for negative aspects of their personalities.
Chris Christie is a belligerent douchebag, no matter what he weighs.
Calouste
@Jenny:
Yeah, it pretty much sounds like “I’m am more of a real believer than those others.”
His metaphor is pretty screwed though, there’s not much use for a deep rudder, or at least not as much as there is for a deep keel. But I assume that it’s a phrase that is currently in use in the various mega church franchises.
eemom
@Jenny:
Fatist! Sizist! Braaaawk!
Big Baby DougJ
@suzanne:
I’m not sure I follow you, deep rudders and pastel colors are only for overweight people or thin people?
Big Baby DougJ
@Disgruntled Lurker:
I wouldn’t go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he’s got a weight problem.
I’m not so into what my candidates look like, personally.
Citizen_X
Oh my lord, can you imagine the raging butthurt if he said that to a mostly-white audience? Why, just who does he think he is, anyway?
That leapt out at me, too.
Geoduck
@suzanne:
Ditto. This is why Christie will never be President. Not his politics, or his personality. You mention his name, and within two or three posts, fat joke. Multiple fat jokes. You know how ABL talks about people spewing unconscious rascism? Yeah, well, it gets done with us fat people too. All the time.
Jay
@4tehlulz: “One of them has to be VP if he wants the Mormon haters to even think of voting for him.”
Exactly, and that, I think, will drag the Republican ticket down, economic mess or not. Perry or Bachmann will start going off the reservation, a la Palin in ’08, and Obama/Biden will pull it out.
@efgoldman-
“Could (Christie) even win in NJ, now?”
No. Cory Booker, the mayor of Newark, is a brave, brilliant, always-optimistic man with a real record of results-unlike Christie, who only won because people were ticked that Corzine used to work in the financial services sector-and in this environment, he’d crush Christie as Reagan did Carter. Christie’d pop off on teachers or somesuch, and all Booker’d have to do is sorta smile, sorta shake his head, and say, “There you go again, Mr. Governor.”
I’m 30, and I’m confident Booker will be at least the 2nd black President I see in my lifetime. Look up Wes Moore; I have a sneaking feeling he will be the third.
Jewish Steel
Pfft. I used to pull that line on the ladies. By the time they found out the truth, it was too late and I was gone.
@Omnes Omnibus: Speak for you self, O squared. I’m leanin’ all up in this mutha right now.
eemom
OK then. Let us seriously discuss whether “fat jokes” are exactly the same thing as racism.
suzanne
@Geoduck:
Dude. See DougJ’s thread below. I’m currently trying to explain to eemom why calling someone “a fat fuck” in order to illustrate how “grotesque” and “gluttinous” he is is actually pretty fucking offensive.
And, of course, I bring this up, and everyone started speculating on MY weight.
Fucking awesome.
Omnes Omnibus
@suzanne: Cassius had a lean and hungry look. Just sayin’.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Kane:
Fixed.
eemom
@suzanne:
Just to save you the trouble of posting your pic again, let me assure everyone that SUZANNE HERSELF IS TOTALLY NOT FAT.
There. That’s out of the way.
cleek
could we at least let a primary or two happen before we start to wallow ?
Big Baby DougJ
@eemom:
I honestly don’t see the point in making fat jokes about candidates. What does it prove that a candidate is overweight? I don’t mean this in a PC way, I mean that I honestly don’t see how it’s relevant.
JPL
@eemom: hmm.. discriminating because of appearance is the same. I unfortunately made a comment about Christie and his big, big white horse and should not have done that. Fair Game would be to talk about his crude mouth and killing the middle class.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jewish Steel: You know that Corner Stone only gives you that first hit for free. Then you gotta pay.
Baud
Does your observation reflect pride or envy?
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
Jeez, he WANTED to “have men about me that are fat,” and they still offed him.
Ya just can’t win, I guess.
Comrade Kevin
@Jenny:
I’m pretty sure that for both of them, their real god is Mammon.
Spaghetti Lee
@suzanne:
I dunno, just search for ‘rick scott voldemort’ or ‘rick scott lex luthor’, and you got lotsa stuff. And Ann Coulter is ‘Coultergeist’, and that’s not even getting into all the tranny jokes (note: not trying to defend either of the two scumbags, just pointing some stuff out.) Their somewhat-weird appearances don’t get overlooked.
I don’t think that jokes about someone’s appearance/habits should be made all the time, especially in place of legitimate criticism, but if they slip out occasionally I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world either. And I ain’t a skinny fellow myself.
B W Smith
Perry may bounce back. It’s true he lost a lot of the conservative pundits with his debate performance. But I don’t think that’s why he’s losing points with the masses. They simply don’t like a lot of the stuff he’s done. In-state tuition for immigrants, Gardasil for pre-teens, taking away social security, a lack of substantial foreign policy are beginning to bother some of the faithful. Just wait until they discover that a huge portion of the Texas jobs miracle gave jobs to illegals and immigrants, while unemployment among Texas natives grew. I hope he’s got a really deep rudder.
suzanne
@eemom:
You fucking disingenuous idiot.
You’re the one that, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, used the word “fat” as a metaphor for “grotesque”. You’re an unrepentant bigot, not to mention a hypocrite.
Big Baby DougJ
@Baud:
It’s a fine line, isn’t it?
Davis X. Machina
@Baud: Sloth. And maybe gluttony, if it’s Cole. But not pride or envy.
(This is for those of you at home playing along with the Seven Deadly Sins bingo cards…)
kindness
Palin/Perry ’12
It works on so many levels.
eemom
@Big Baby DougJ:
meh, I tried to explain it on the earlier thread and I’m not gonna do it again.
Spaghetti Lee
@Davis X. Machina:
Well I just hope it ain’t Lust.
eemom
@suzanne:
kiss my ample ass, you Salon-loving trendoid.
Geoduck
@eemom:
Is fat-discrimination as openly ugly and virulent as racism or homophobia? No. People generally don’t get murdered for being fat. Does it exist? Yes. The jokes, the endless unthinking stream of jokes, are just one symptom.
suzanne
@Spaghetti Lee:
You’re right, people make casually sexist and homophobic comments about Ann Coulter’s appearance with some frequency. And it’s not fucking okay. It’s not the worst thing in the world, but, when someone calls you on being offensive, the proper reaction is to say, “Hey, you’re right, I fucked up, and will endeavor not to do so in the future.”
Instead, eemom doubled down, saying “LA LA LA I DON’T GIVE A FUCK, YOU’RE STUPID AND PC!” and openly speculating about my weight. (Apparently, the only reason I would care about anti-fat prejudice was if I was fat myself.)
Big Baby DougJ
@eemom:
I’m still planning on referring to him as Chunky Jon Huntsman if he runs if that makes you feel better.
Bullsmith
Rick GoldPerry? Rick Perwater? Rick “Goldwater 2000” Perry? I don’t know, Perry Goldwater doesn’t do it for me.
4jkb4ia
Today’s story in NYT had Larry Sabato saying that it was like manna from heaven for Romney to be able to attack Perry from the right. And Gail Collins cannot stand either of them. I read Perry’s “response” to the 3 am question and said “Huh?” and “It shows he can’t think on his feet. That’s bad news.”
On REM:
Today I had the thought that at TNC’s, when Teena Marie died, people were just as sentimental, but I was able to listen, and shut up, and follow the links to the playlist that was put up. This has been another small effect of race in people’s daily lives (more about the fan base of the two acts)
Evolved Deep Southerner
Everybody ought to watch this and then consider Rick Perry through that lens.
It’s like we’re getting circa 2006-8 Bush all over again instead of 2000 Bush. And the dumb fuckers like it.
eemom
@Big Baby DougJ:
oh, I feel fine. But it’s gonna give suzanne there an aneurism or two.
Or at least, in the name of consistency, it SHOULD. Come to think of it, I don’t recall this level of hysteria being displayed over “Chunky Bobo.”
Jewish Steel
Steve Benen makes the point that Reagan and Bush II were shit debaters too. Republicans find it endearing.
suzanne
@Geoduck: I would say that the fact that so many fat people are willing to subject themselves to life-threatening surgery in part to avoid societal disapproval is pretty clear evidence that being fat in this society is hard.
eemom
@suzanne:
nope, actually I wasn’t the one who brought up your weight at ALL. That was aisce — at which point you fell all over yourself in your haste to provide photographic evidence that YOU Are. Not. Fat.
Comrade Kevin
@eemom:
Because the “Chunky Bobo” nickname has to do with a comment Douthat made about a “chunky Reese Witherspoon”, and not his own appearance at all?
Citizen_X
I guess it would be inappropriate for me to point out that you could land a 747 on Christie’s ass then, right?
Suffern ACE
Pastels? There isn’t anything wrong with pastels. It’s “earth tones” the serious people can’t stand.
Big Baby DougJ
@suzanne:
There are real health reasons to get gastric bypass surgery for some people. I’m not sure everyone appreciates how difficult it is to be seriously obese.
This is a reason why I don’t like to make fun of people over their weight.
lamh34
@El Cid: wow, that headline and write up is bullshit.
I saw the speech, it was live-streamed at whitehouse.gov and CSPAN showed it as well. Obama was fired up (the last 2 minutes should be checked out).
The only group of people who will watch the speech and not just read transcripts, who would really believe that POTUS tolds “the blacks” to essentially STFU as the AP headline implies are the usual suspects who will of course equate this with their usual Obama tells the base to STFU stories.
I wish I could find a link to the speech, but I’m off to bed early to tired to be bothered.
suzanne
@Big Baby DougJ:
Concur. Appearance-based prejudice is really awful, and, in my view, on a liberal blog, we shouldn’t tolerate it.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: eemom, Douchehat asked for that with his seminal (pun intended) “Chunky Reese Witherspoon” column.
So you’re not going to knock off the fat jokes, I take it? They are that central and important to your criticisms of Christie?
At this point, you’re being aggressively impolite in the name of … in the name of something. Anti-political correctness? Kinda stumped at why you’re getting entrenched on this point unless you’ve just got some beef with some people and are just trying to piss them off.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Comrade Kevin: I see Comrade Kevin beat me to the Douchehat thing.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: Shorter me at #79:
Suzanne’s right and you’re wrong. You’re making a gaping asshole of yourself on the fat jokes.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom:
Case in point. Are you enjoying poking Suzanne and others in the eye with this schtick?
JGabriel
DougJ @ Top:
Now is the time for Sarah Palin to come to the rescue of the party!
.
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
Fair nuff about Doughtwat, then.
But how come nobody ever gets steamed about the “Orange” comments directed at Boehner? Hmm?? What if the poor man suffers from some undisclosed, incurable skin condition??
In all honesty, the truth is this. I hate, loathe, and despise Christie, and all of his ilk, so much, because of what they are, what they’ve done and what they WILL do, if we let them, that I just can’t and won’t be bothered to treat them with even the minimal level of dignity and decency to which I otherwise believe all human beings are entitled. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.
gnomedad
@El Cid:
I’m bracing for some vile stuff about this event from the Limbaughs and Savages out there.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom:
Well, there’s the answer to the question, then. Thank you, and noted for the future. “I’m an asshole in this particular regard, and I am content to be an asshole in this particular regard. Deal with it.”
suzanne
@eemom:
The reason people comment on it is because he is vain enough to tan but too embarrassed about it to admit it, and that’s dishonest. But you’re right. I’ve made jokes about it, but he could have a disorder, and I should and will stop.
@eemom:
It isn’t about treating THEM well. By contributing to an environment in which fat is synonymous with moral depravity with your “jokes”, you’re making a shitty world for OTHER FAT PEOPLE.
B W Smith
@Evolved Deep Southerner: Did you read the thread where this started? It wasn’t in this one. Yeah, fat jokes and appearance jokes are crude, distasteful, and not politically correct. Maybe we’ve all learned our lessons. So the next time someone makes reference to Jonah Goldberg as Doughy Pantload, we’re gonna go after them, too. This blog may be liberal but it has never been PC.
I went to the doctor last year and found out that I am borderline obese. I was shocked, I had always just thought of myself as chubby. I don’t crumple at fat jokes or Christy jokes. I realize for many folks it is difficult to be overweight, but for many of us, it ain’t that big a deal. We don’t need svelte, good-looking people coming to our rescue.
Comrade Kevin
@eemom:
The point isn’t the insult to someone like Christie individually, who is quite vile enough without resorting to cheap, stupid jokes. I’ll leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what the real problem is.
ETA: Oh well, suzanne gave it away.
El Cid
@lamh34: I don’t believe that even the AP headline was suggesting that. I think that whoever wrote the headline was indeed trying to blend the Obama folksy rhetoric and the context to define it. It just isn’t what it looks like once you see it in print — then suddenly it becomes ‘why don’t the blacks get off their asses’ for many, I’m assuming and predicting.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m not surprised that the media and the Money Republicans want Romney, but I’m still surprised that no one that I can tell, not Perry, not Bachmann, not Limbaugh or Pat Buchanan or whoever has brought up “Multiple Choice Mitt”, his pro-choice, moderate-on-gay-rights past
No one of importance
@eemom:
Hey, eemom, knock it off, okay? Because I’m someone who looks like Christie with breasts, and yet my brain and my morals are perfectly functional. Being thin doesn’t guarantee you being a more worthy person or better candidate than a fat fuck like me.
Your ass is showing. Cover it up. That’s from a *really* fat person, since you don’t think Suzanne’s allowed to chide you.
lamh34
OT, but SNL’s season debute is tonight. Alec Baldwin is the host for a record-breaking 16th time, beating out fellow long time host Steve Martin. Anyone plan to watch it?
eemom
So all the following are now off limits:
Boehner’s orange.
McConnell’s chins
Perry’s shoulders.
Santorum’s hair.
Bachmann’s “crazy eyes.”
Palin’s “attractiveness.”
Romney’s — well, entire physical being.
Enjoy.
Linda Featheringill
@Jay:
Booker is cool. Don’t know where he’s going but he’s definitely not finished yet.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@B W Smith:
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
GFY. kthxbai.
suzanne
@eemom:
I’m sorry that you can’t find any other reason to criticize these people than their looks.
I, however, can.
JGabriel
@suzanne:
I blame Chris Christie, for embodying the stereotype.
.
eemom
one point of further clarification: I never made any “joke” about Christie.
My calling him a “disgusting fat fuck” was 100% serious.
And with that, you can all go nurse yourselves to sleep on your self-righteous nipples. Nighty-night.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom:
I think we’d be more effective if we stayed away from all that shit, yes. Sounds like a good set of general ground rules.
Will you have a sad if those “lines of attack” were no longer popular?
Appearance-based shit really is childish. As is the whole Santorum/”frothy mixture” business. That man says plenty enough stupid shit to ridicule without everyone’s go-to, pat answer being “Oh, it’s lube and fecal matter, Internet meme” (snicker, snicker.)
Jesus Christ. Is this middle school?
Spaghetti Lee
@suzanne:
OK, what about Boehner’s smoking and drinking? What about the fact that his last name is a walking dick joke? Or Mitch McConnell’s chinlessness? What about general cracks against intellgence? If you think intelligence is genetic, isn’t that the same as calling someone fat? And if we’re getting into biases with more gravity attached to them, I know I’ve seen people on liberal blogs talking about Sarah Palin attempting to amplify her sex appeal to wingnuts in order to keep the gravy train rolling, and I know I’ve seen people talk about Michael Steele in very racial terms.
This isn’t an attempt to call anyone out for hypocrisy, and I’m not trying to concern troll. And-I’m being completely honest here-I think it’s very brave and decent of you to fight for a cause that a lot of people are too scared to fight for. But at some point, the pragmatist in me rears up and says “This stuff is going to do nothing to help our actual causes, and everything to help the other side. It will give them every opportunity to cry butthurt instead of being nailed to the wall on actual policies, and any liberal attempt to strategize against it will be derailed whenever someone has a slip of the tongue.” These sorts of insults have always been with us, and will always be with us, and the Republicans sure as hell aren’t going to stop using them. Without passing moral judgment one way or the other, you’re just never going to get to a place where the entire liberal movement agrees to never call anyone fat, or ugly, or stupid, so you’re going to have to plan for what actually will happen. Again, I sincerely appreciate where you’re coming from, and I do think you should do whatever feels right to you, but at some point I just think it becomes counterproductive.
eemom
@suzanne:
You, however, ought to go file a petition for sainthood instead of hanging out on blogs. Srsly. You’re way ahead of your time.
Linda Featheringill
@No one of importance:
Dear Important Person:
Remember that your true worth, your brain and your kindness, is great.
Kyle
@El Cid:
I’ll bet I could search for a long time and not find any g-droppin’, apostrophe-in’ verbatim quotes in news stories about the speeches of the marble-mouthed, inarticulate, phony-southern GW Bush.
The MSM went out of their way to fluff up C-Plus Augustus by cleaning up the mangled syntax, inadvertent neologisms and general incomprehensibility of his abysmal comic-book-dialogue remarks, like he was a competitor in a Debate Event at the Special Olympics.
kdaug
Gonna want some first-hand empirical evidence on that one. I’ll pilot, just hold him in place.
Comrade Kevin
@eemom: eemom, translated: “I’m a dumb fuck, and proud of it.”
Linda Featheringill
@suzanne:
I was pressed for time earlier in the day and didn’t have a chance to thank you for coming to the defense of folks who don’t meet the current “norm” physically.
I felt like somebody was fighting for me and truthfully, it felt pretty good.
You go, girl.
:-)
El Cid
@Kyle: True, but then, GW Bush Jr. wasn’t a Democrat, he wasn’t a Muslim, he was born in America, and he wasn’t black, so, it’s different.
jurassicpork
The Innocence Project is all good and well but what we fucking need as much if not more is a Guilt Project.
lamh34
@El Cid: @Kyle:
well like I said upthread. I saw the speech and towards the end of the speech you can tell he was really feelin’ what was saying. He even had a “drop the mic…I’m done” kinda thing at the end of it.
If I could find the whole video, I’d link to it, but all I can find is pieces.
suzanne
@Spaghetti Lee: Look, I think this shit IS our cause. I believe that our society is as fucked up as it is because there is a complex set of arbitrary hierarchies that we are all constantly navigating. These hierarchies intersect all the time, so at times, for example, a black male is at times in a position of more power than a white woman, and vice versa. The moral charge for those of us who are relatively privileged (in that we are members of the socially dominant groups (white, male, straight, rich, conventionally attractive, not disabled, etc.)) is that we have to extend our privilege to those that don’t have it. Winning elections isn’t a goal in and of itself.
Quite frankly, I think that you (this is the amorphous you, not you personally) have no business calling yourself a liberal if you’re not willing to do this. As I understand it, the point of being a liberal is to bring the government and the individual into a harmonious relationship for everyone’s benefit. And calling someone out for a “slip of the tongue” is not a big deal. We all fuck up—we’ve been pickling in a racist, patriarchal society our entire lives, so it’s to be expected. The proper response when someone tells you that you’ve done something hurtful is to apologize and endeavor not to do it again. Dismissing the simple act of NOT BEING AN ASSHOLE to people who are less fortunate than you are as “political correctness” is really disgusting privilege at work.
I don’t ever expect that, in my lifetime, I’ll see the end of prejudice. But I’m not going to shut up about it because some people think that to talk about it “takes our eyes off the ball”. That’s fucking bullshit. It IS the ball.
B W Smith
@Evolved Deep Southerner: Frankly, regarding the nickname, my mind never went where yours did. Maybe, I’m naive but I thought it referred to his ample rear and doughy appearance. It first appeared around the time “Liberal Fascism” was released and stuck.
My main point was this is not a politically correct blog. We have some folks on here that are very free with language and insults. I find it odd that we’re suddenly decrying verbal abuse and insults of any sort. When John did his famous list a while back of what could get you banned, I don’t think being non-PC was one of them. If so, he’d have very few commenters.
suzanne
@Linda Featheringill: Hey, you got my back, I got yours. :)
@eemom: Why don’t you go have a nice, tall glass of go fuck yourself, you bigoted idiot?
Mack Lyons
My mind leads me to believe it’s the third. Race relations in this country are so borked you can’t help but think anything but the third.
Reminds me of a time back in high school when I walked into one of those dumbassed race jokes
Me: Why is it so dark in here? (wondering why the lights in the damned classroom were off)
Irish foreign-exchange twit: Because you walked in.
My fellow brown-skinned classmates thought that was just hilarious. I didn’t, but I was too in shock to walk up to the European equivalent of trailer trash and slap the shit out of her.
Sorry for bringing petty BS into the comments.
Villago Delenda Est
One of the many reasons why Chris Matthews is going to be on an early tumbrel come The Revolution.
suzanne
@eemom: I love how you resort to sarcasm the moment you realize you don’t have support. You’ve got that mean girl playground behavior down pat.
You can e-mail me your apology if you don’t want to lose face in front of everyone. I promise I won’t post it in a comment.
But, remember, it only took Rick Santorum 24 hours to suck it up and thank the gay soldier for his service. So, if I don’t see an e-mail in my inbox by tomorrow afternoon, I’ll just have to conclude that Rick Santorum has more integrity than you do.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Villago Delenda Est: pretty sure that was Roger Simon, who has gotten progressively stupider and more right-wing friendly over the last few years. I wonder if he hasn’t found Jeebus.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
You people are ignoring the obvious. The first candidate to shove SUPER COKE! into the faces and down the throats of the American electorate wins it all.
.
.
magma
@efgoldman: no
xian
choke on your stupid fucking dots
Spaghetti Lee
@suzanne:
Morally speaking, I think you’re pretty much right. In the context of our current political and media environment, I just think it gets messier in the ways I’ve described.
I think one thing that gets tossed around here a lot is that it’s problematic for liberals to think they’re too good or righteous to get involved in the dirty businesses of politics. Well, I think this is the dark underbelly of that. I’d love to live in a world where you can say “Chris Christie’s extremist policies would destroy the middle class” and prove it as such, and that’s all you’d need to say to get people to realize it. In the world we do live in, that puts a lot of people to sleep. Elections are won and lost on stupid “personal” shit, and whether you think that’s right or wrong, whether it’s something you want to change in the future, at some level you have to account for it.
Two other things. I think you’re kind of conflating discrimination and prejudice. If I were Chris Christie’s boss, and I fired him because he’s fat, that would be a problem, but I have no such power over him. He and his cohort have a lot of power over me. I think there’s a moral difference between someone using their power to actively discriminate against people in concrete ways, and someone with little power tossing out an insult against some asshole with way too much power.
I also think you’re assuming that just because someone calls Chris Christie fat, that means they hate all fat people or think they’re all inferior. I don’t think that’s true. If I call him a “fat bastard” that means I’m calling him a bastard who happens to be fat, not someone whose fatness has destined him to be a bastard. I think eemom’s being a jerk in this thread, but there’s a reason she’s taking it out on Christie and not, say, Carl Levin or Jerrold Nadler. I think when you’re a good person, you deserve to have people talk about you in good ways. If you’re an asshole, people won’t respect you. What goes around comes around in other words.
suzanne
@B W Smith:
We’re not decrying insults OF ANY SORT. I’m decrying insults based on immutable characteristics that are totally fucking immaterial to the subject at hand.
If “fat” is the worst thing you can think of to call Chris Christie, then you’re a total fucking loser.
magma
@lamh34: no
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: You really are a vile shit and proud of it. Damn. It’s one thing to shit yourself in public. It’s quite another to shit and fall back in it, and joyously roll in it. And you’ve done that tonight.
Yutsano
@suzanne: Stupid way OT two questions:
A) are you on Book of Faces?
B) if yes, are you on wifey’s or Imani’s list?
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Spaghetti Lee: I understand the point of your post, I really do, but this:
If you create that world through your words, then you can live in it. If you give up and believe that the only way you can make any political headway is to say “Christie is a fat-ass!” because “that’s the way it is,” well, you’ve already lost by concession.
Leave the fat/black/gay/orange/misc. appearance jokes to the people who are so fucking dumb that they think it’s funny or cool. Once you take the position of “Well, people are stupid, so we have to say stupid shit to appeal to them,” then you’ve lost already.
You – we – are better than this middle school shit. Aren’t we?
suzanne
@Spaghetti Lee:
The problem is, when you use the term “fat” to stand in for negative qualities, you make the world more difficult for OTHER FAT PEOPLE. I don’t give a fuck about Chris Christie. This is why the power argument is complicated. Chris Christie, as an individual, wields a lot of power. But fat people, as a class, wield less social power than skinny people.
In a comment to eemom in the other thread, I posted a link to an article by Kate Harding (prominent fat blogger/activist) in which she discusses why she encourages people to use the term “fat” as a simple descriptor when it is applicable. But she talks about how “fat” has connotations of other negative qualities. And calling Chris Christie a “fat bastard” when his weight isn’t pertinent to the discussion helps give that word those negative qualities. So why mention his weight at all?
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: Will you translate that shit into English? What does that even mean?
suzanne
@Yutsano: Yes, I’m on Facebook. I don’t think I’m on either of their lists….
Yutsano
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
I’m a stupid ass troll and YOU MUST PAY ATTENTION TO ME NOW!!
(roughly)
@suzanne: Go to wifey’s list (hers is very short) and look for the guy sticking out his tongue. That’s me. Don’t ask about the picture LOL.
Micheline
This whole debate about Christie has been blown out proportion. Christie is fat. So f–ing what! He’s also a vile bully. People always use a person’s physical characteristic as a way to describe that person’s character. It’s all about context. And as black person, it is really insulting to equate a statement about fat people with racism. It just not the same thing.
piratedan
geee, where was the memo that Romney stood up to his party’s extremists? Since when did silence and furious blinking constitute pushback on booing gay soldiers serving overseas?
suzanne
@Yutsano: I don’t know her full name, yo….
handy
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
Well there was a candidate once who used to snort coke and he became president. So, sounds about right to me.
Yutsano
@suzanne: Oh. Oops. It’s on her blog, so leaking it here should be fine. Minna Hong.
rikyrah
Obama tells blacks to ‘stop complainin’ and fight
POTUS was talking to the CBC backstabbers who have been undermining him at every turn.
the speech is worth watching. it is as close to the ‘Angry’ Barack Obama as you will ever see. it was obvious that he was pissed. the last 5 minutes are an absolute symphony – he does into the ‘ zone’.
look at his face in those last five minutes.
he’s like
how the hell should I have to give a speech like this TO YOU, of all people?
his face was fierce.
then, in the end, he slaps the podium.
from The Obama Diary:
Don
September 24, 2011 at 10:55 pm
At the end of his speech and with a quick flick of his wrist, President Obama’s slap on the podium was a signal to all of us that know the deal. Those of you that don’t know what that slap signified are lost. You don’t learn that slap in school, or on the playground, or anywhere that hasn’t known struggle. There was only one place for President Obama to deliver that podium slap for full effectiveness, and trust me that slap was heard in every barbershop, church, nail salon and laundry mat.
suzanne
@Yutsano: I can’t see it….e-mail me at baddesignhurts at hotmail dot com.
Spaghetti Lee
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
If you create that world through your words, then you can live in it.
Maybe I’m overly cynical about human nature (definitely a possibility), but I think this is too optimistic. I think it’s a question of human nature being what it is, not convincing people rhetorically one way or the other.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just not getting it. I don’t think there’s a contradiction between making the occasional fat joke (and yes, emphasis on ‘occasional. The more overbearing it gets the more I find myself in Suzanne’s camp) and saying that Christie’s policies are evil. And I also don’t think cracking the occasional fat joke (or similar jokes) make you a bad person.
Yutsano
@suzanne: Consider yourself e-mailed. :)
B W Smith
@suzanne: You know I haven’t been rude to you at all, but this is exactly what I am talking about. In your quest to defend folks who may be offended by the use of the word fat as a descriptor, you wind being rude to me. I am one of those “fat” people and I don’t need you to defend me. Period, end of discussion. In saying this:
you are showing your privilege. You see, I am fat, but I do not consider myself as less fortunate than anyone, not even you. Now perhaps you did not mean that wording, but I actually take more offense to that than someone saying Christy is fat. It’s not like anyone on this thread is vile enough to walk up to an overweight person and say they are a fat disgusting pig. None of these comments were personal to anyone but Christy. If the comments actually offend or cause harm to anyone then they should speak up and defend themselves.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Sitting here in a hotel room in Medford Oregon, the wife unit is crashed out resting for the Rogue River Run at 6 am. We had dinner at Gaetano’s, a small Italian restaurant in the north end area, so the wife could carbo-load on spaghetti. We were seated next to two thin-lipped couples who were talking thin-lipped politics.
The old southern gentleman (drawl is a dead giveaway) likes Perry (go figure) and he believes that he would be a far better president than Dubya since he has “real experience”, though he never detailed that experience. The young man who was with him was impressed with Cain, saying that “he was a CEO and knows how to run a successful business” and he gave great answers in his debate appearances.
The southern gentleman and his wife definitely didn’t care one bit for Cain, with the old man saying “we already got one of those in the White House right now” and we “don’t need another one”. Interestingly enough, no love for Palin. None. They all thought she was nothing but “tease” and looking to make a buck.
All in all, it was an entertaining meal. The guy playing classical guitar in the background was the icing on top…lol!
fuckwit
That “deep deep rudder” is fundamentalist christian dog-whistle horseshit. I think it’s a line from a hymn or something.
He’s not a governor or a presidential candidate– he’s a tent preacher.
Very scary.
amk
PBO lit into the collective asses of the corrupt black caucus of CREW list fame and watched it burn. Unlike the dem heathens who whine on & on about him to the press behind his back, this guy has the class and the proverbial balls to meet the detractors in their own fucking dens and screw them royally.
And yes, christie is a fat pig, a pig who is fat. No need to get your panties in a twist trying to be PC.
Yutsano
@Odie Hugh Manatee: This is like seriously high on the meta scale dude. I think copious amounts of vino would have helped greatly.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Yutsano:
Not this time, Yutsano. I will not pay attention to you now, nor to your future fire-seared eggplant recipe ramblings.
.
.
Geoduck
@amk:
Casual sexism and and fat-hatred! A two-fer!
amk
@Geoduck: quit-cher your whining. Facts, them is the breaks here.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Do not be diverted into thinking about Yutsano or Christie Christie’s weight problem. Focus exclusively on the bony ass of that bony-ass bitch Jane Hamsher.
.
.
Yutsano
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: :: snickers ::
Your obsession with me is almost cute. Almost.
suzanne
@B W Smith:
Fat people make less money than skinny people and statistically get worse health care. It’s not a matter of consideration.
And some fat people did speak up.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Spaghetti Lee: Well, maybe I was inartful (as some prefer to put it) in my phrasing.
You may not be able to create/live in a world where attacks based on physical appearance don’t happen. But by forgoing such attacks, at least you can opt out of being a happy construction worker busily helping the people who live in that world.
And, yes, you’re right, cracking the occasional fat/similar joke doesn’t make you a bad person. Hell, I’ve done it. But if someone calls you out on it, you can respond in one of two ways.
You can say “Yes, you’re right, it was a thoughtless moment … etc., etc.” and most people will accept that and forget about it.
Or you can say “Go fuck yourself … etc., etc.” as eemom’s done. And in those cases, people don’t forget, and will think about that whenever you say anything else. Take eemom, for instance. Every time s/he says anything about anything from here on out – regardless of whether his/her comments have anything to do with someone’s physical appearance – I’m going to remember this thread, and it will be real hard for me to respond with anything other than some variation of “Hey, give us a good fat joke, you juvenile piece of shit.”
I’ve got no further use for eemom after this thread, and will throw it up in his/her face every single time I see him/her comment on anything from here on out. Because that person wasn’t just offensive, they doubled/tripled/quadrupled down on it. From that point forward, the conversation was no longer about political correctness as about basic civility/politeness.
I’m sure eemom could give a shit what I think of him/her. S/he could give a shit about suzanne’s or anyone else’s feelings about any-fucking-thing. These are the hallmarks of a gaping asshole.
So to get back to your original point: You can take the position of “It’s a world of gaping assholes, so you’ve got to be a gaping asshole to have any efficacy in that world” (which is how I understood your post) or you can do your small part to change that environment by policing yourself and stopping with the fucking jokes.
eemom
@suzanne:
That, is the funniest comment on either of these two threads.
B W Smith
@suzanne: And you know this how? Empirical studies? Were you fat in a previous life? You have a real, live, honest to goodness fat person telling you that she was offended by your “less fortunate” remark. According to your own fucking formula, you’re supposed to apologize. There are many ways to condescend. Calling someone fat is only one. But being fat is not always immutable, it ain’t skin color or a deformity. I could go on a diet and be slimmer. I realize that not every fat person could do that, but being told they are less fortunate because of it doesn’t exactly enhance their self-esteem. For what’s it worth, I am happy with my compensation and medical care. Statistics don’t always tell the whole story.
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
my gaping asshole farts in your general direction.
fuckwit
Oh no, the fat pie-war continues.
Here, have this:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/quislibet/164084.html
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Simon was a good reporter and funny columnist when he was at the Baltimore Sun. It’s hard to believe this asshole is the same guy.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: Are you still here? Jesus Christ, what is this, quintupling down, sextupling down?
Are you drunk? I ask only because I’ve seen your previous comments, and I’ve never seen you write shit like this here. I’m second-handedly embarrassed for you, though I should not be, as I don’t know you.
Drunk or sober, the best thing you could do for yourself at this point is to go to bed, quit digging.
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
funny, you have just there stumbled onto one of my litmus tests for Clueless Morons of Any Size. I.e., one who can’t comprehend the obvious distinction between “could give a shit” and “couldn’t give a shit.”
If I could give a shit what you think of me, then obviously I’d be bending over backwards to kiss your ass. And yet I’m not.
Get it now?
Comrade Kevin
@eemom: The best thing you did all day was when you said you were going away for the night. Then, you came back.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: Bust off another fat joke, you fucking dumbass. The crowd’s eating it up here.
God, what a piece of shit you are.
amk
@Geoduck: Facts, them is the breaks here. You can b&m all you want.
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
Naw, it’s just that I can’t quit ya, you great big hunk of logic-based argument you.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: Yeah. I get it. “I’m an asshole. You and everybody else can fucking deal.”
Go to bed, sir/madam. You’ll regret some of this shit in this morning.
Comrade Kevin
LOL. Oh, the stupidity.
eemom
@Comrade Kevin:
I couldn’t sleep without YOU either, snookums.
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
Oh, no I won’t.
I’ll keep slugging just as long as you will, O Evolved One.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: Give us another good fat joke, you juvenile piece of shit. Just to prove a point.
Comrade Kevin
@eemom: Eww, that is disgusting.
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
As noted above, my “fat” statements were not JOKES. Please do try to keep up.
suzanne
@B W Smith: I’m glad you’re happy with your life and I apologize for offending you. That was not my intent.
However, there’s stacks of evidence that fat people do in fact do experience significant amounts of discrimination. Here’s some. And there’s also all kinds of evidence that, for many people, body type is strongly linked to genetics and can’t be changed significantly even with dieting, just as there’s a predisposition to skinniness and some people can pound down the food and never gain an ounce.
So it is a bit of “good fortune” to win the genetic lottery by being predisposed for the body type that society deems appropriate. That was all I meant by my comment.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: “I’m not joking!”
That changes everything. I take back everything I said and apologize for offending you. Please carry on.
eemom
@suzanne:
And lucky YOU, you WON that lottery. Woooohoooo.
Noblesse oblige.
Comrade Kevin
eemom is a liberal the same way Jeffrey Dahmer was a vegetarian. That, by the way, is not a JOKE.
suzanne
@eemom: Wow. I’d thought you’d fucked off. It was kind of awesome.
eemom
@Comrade Kevin:
[smooch]
eemom
@suzanne:
Nope! Here all week.
Comrade Kevin
eemom is a liberal the same way Charles Manson is a pacifist. That is not a JOKE.
piratedan
obviously this thread needs more of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RVDQgVxprE
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: You are correct in your not joking:
Boy, you should have stuck with “Plan A.”
eemom
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
and yet I didn’t.
Next?
suzanne
@eemom:
If that’s what you call it to give a fuck about others not yourself, carry on. Whatever gets you through the night.
eemom
Dayum. This is some serious intellectual firepower I’m facing here. Too bad my kids are asleep, or I’d enlist their help.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Yutsano:
Unfortunately the wife only allowed herself one glass and I was the designated driver. Still, it was a very entertaining dinner.
We were polite and turned our heads whenever we couldn’t control our smiles. A couple of times I almost choked on my food.
I’m sure you would have too…lol!
Comrade Kevin
@eemom: It’s no better or worse than your fat insults.
eemom
@suzanne:
I’m sure all the fat people in the world are sleeping easier tonight knowing that you give a fuck about them.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna go take my doggies for a late night walk. But I’ll be back, so by all means, keep prattling on about how awesome you are to those less skinny than yourself.
suzanne
It’s kind of amazing to me that people are actually whining about the prospect of it not being considered totes awesome to tease people about their race/sex/gender/body shape/etc. Honestly, i feel like I’m listening to Limbaugh.
“How can I ever express my discontent with the Republicans if I can’t call them fat cunts?!”
For fuck’s sake.
fuckwit
@Spaghetti Lee: Nope, that’s a thinly-veiled homophobic slur. He’s calling the other candidates gay. Because he’s a big tough macho man.
I am so tired of this bullshit.
Either we evolve past this idiotic phase, or the human race gets knocked back down to a couple thousand hunter-gatherers.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@eemom: Please, have the last word here. We’re talking in increasingly stupid circles here. It’s bedtime.
suzanne
@Evolved Deep Southerner: LOL. Word.
Comrade Kevin
@Evolved Deep Southerner: while on her walk, she’s probably working up new bits of stupidity to drop in this thread.
Comrade Kevin
I remember someone posting something about getting Greasemonkey, and thus the Pie filter, working with Safari. Anyone have a link to that?
B W Smith
@suzanne: Thank you for the apology. I was a social worker for many years (I’m a mediator now). When I graduated from college, my first job was working with a group of unwed teen moms. These young women were predominately African American and poor. Going in I had many assumptions about what their lives must be like and what they would find offensive. These spunky young ladies set me straight in a hurry. All of my studies, assumptions, and statistics had no bearing on how they saw and lived their lives. In fact, they let me know quickly that those assumptions made me sound preachy and condescending.
That is a mistake many liberals make. We assume that we can read about others and consume statistics and we will understand and can improve the lives of others that way. What I learned from these girls and multiple other clients through the years is the best thing to do is to empower them to speak for themselves. Criticism is always more effective coming from the person actually affected. As liberals, it is our nature to want to speak out and right wrongs and that is good. Sometimes the best thing we can do is be there with support and empowerment and back-up.
I think your heart is in the right place but I’m not sure you are going about it in the right way. Over the course of the two threads, eemom has not exhibited the best behavior. You haven’t been above reproach, you and the chorus of buddies have egged it own. It appears there is a little more going on than a fat joke.
eemom, you should walk away and go to bed, now.
As for all of you continuing the egging on, just stop it, now, you’re starting to look like assholes, too. It’s a blog, sometimes folks act like shits, let it go. You can’t judge the value of a person by what they write on blog late on a Saturday. Get over your sanctimonious selves.
gocart mozart
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
I think Atrios coined it a couple years ago. Is Pantload offensive to pooping babies? I could call him a douchebag but that might offend the feminine hygiene industry. Where are we going with this?
SRW1
@B W Smith:
If it weren’t for the history of such a post on this blog, I would so nominate you for ombudsman. On occasion, the virtual grenade throwing and pretend keyboard vendettas can become a bit tiresome, and the egging on sometimes approaches an unseemly mob grade.
Lysana
Y’know, the way some of y’all insist on clinging to your hatreds is really fascinating. Consistency can be commforting, but the hobgoblin of small minds has set up house with several of you. How DARE people point out that you contribute to hate by using its language? Gosh!
Yes, insulting people for being fat is hate. And the Marcus Bachmann is gay jokes are homophobic (and possibly bisexual erasure). Calling Ann Coulter a man is transphobic.
Wake up and grow up or fuck off.
Lysana
@B W Smith: And I’d call you a hypocrite for your own sanctimony in using a tone argument. Good night.
Triassic Sands
Whoa there, Big Baby, I wish I had your rose-tinted glasses. Perry starts off not with the six states Goldwater won, but with a minimum of sixteen to twenty and close to 200 electoral college votes. There are many, many states in 2012 that will never go for Obama, but chose Johnson over Goldwater in 1964.
States like Texas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Kentucky, and Tennessee that went for Johnson in 1964 will NEVER, NEVER go for Obama in 2012. And a state that elected Rick Scott governor in 2010 can easily go for Perry in 2012 (plus Obama now has that “Israel/Jewish” problem that could turn some of Florida’s Jews away from him). Wisconsin voters failed to show enough “buyer’s remorse” in the recall elections to make Obama look like a definite winner there, and Michigan voters elected Rick Snyder as their beloved governor and could well be suckers for Perry’s job creator talk. And who wants to rely on Pennsylvania voters? I live in Washington State and I wouldn’t put it in the “definite” column for Obama in 2012.
So, even if Obama can beat Perry, I don’t see any way there will be a Goldwater-style landslide. Sure, Perry is a stupid lunatic, but so are at least forty percent of US voters. Actually, I fear the number of US voters who qualify as stupid (includes ignorant and un- or misinformed), crazy, or both is well in excess of 65% of the electorate — fortunately (I guess) some of them are stupid, crazy Democrats.
I’m afraid my rose-tinted glasses aren’t made by Perry, but come in a box clearly marked Bachmann. Sadly, she’s a little too outwardly nutty even for some Republicans, so her chances of getting the nomination rest largely on the unlikely event of all the other candidates being abducted by aliens — that would have to include guys like Christie who might run if all the other major candidates disappeared).
2012 is not 1964. There are lots of modern “mainstream” GOP voters who, if they lived in Arizona and Goldwater was their senator — would want to primary him for being too liberal.
SRW1
@Lysana:
Bit odd this. I had a pretty much diametrically opposed reaction to yours. When I noticed that your moniker linked to your blog, that made me curious enough to pay a brief visit. Very much liked the first post there, Not All Perspectives on Race are Created Equal. I am sure I will be back for some more reading.
Walter
They will fluff Huntsman, you know, the slimy dude that progressive love and respect sooo much.
Lojasmo
@Evolved DeepSoutherner:
Still, comparing racism to size bigotry is asinine.
B W Smith
@Lysana: You are right. At 2:00 something in the morning it didn’t sound quite so sanctimonious. After a few hours of sleep, yep, it does look like a tone argument. SRW1, I think the last ombudsman here had to leave. I like it here most of the time, so I don’t want the job.
Svensker
@fuckwit:
Are you thinking of “Deep River”? Maybe you need a deep rudder for the deep river. I think he was more talking about his BIG rudder. Much bigger than the rudder Mitt has.
Tonybrown74
@Lysana:
I’m sorry, but pointing out Marcus Bachmann’s mannerisms in relation to what he does/did for a living is NOT homophobic. Context is everything. That man profited off of telling effeminate men that there was something wrong with them, while he himself exhibits those same mannerisms.
It would be like some (let’s assume he’s straight) effeminate man coming up to me on the street (being an out gay man myself) making fun of me for swishing or lisping or whatever.
I can guarantee you that the first words out of my mouth will be, “queen, are you for real?”
Elie
@suzanne:
Lighten up suzanne. While I support your general point of view on this, I think demanding that someone send you an apology by a certain time or be forever an asshole is pretty arrogant.
You didn’t mind going all wolf pack on Samara yesterday. Fivesies and more on one was just fine for you then. But that was ok cause YOU were doing it, amerite?
I know I am not perfect and have had to apologize straight out to people on ore than oone occasion and I don’t mind doing it a bit. Its part of displaying what small amount of integrity that we can on using an indirect medium like a blog. But no one died and left you boss here. You have a right and yes an obligation to stand up for righteous things… but you are not the sheriff. You are not going to be able to patrol or control every point of view on this blog nor should you be able to.
Geoduck
@Triassic Sands:
I agree with your basic point, but, c’mon. No way in hell Washington state goes for Perry. We might be just stupid enough to go for Romney. The real danger, though, is that we might elect Rob McKenna governor. (shudder)
@Lojasmo:
I said this before, but I’ll repeat it one more time. Is fat hatred as vicious and virulent in the US as racism? No, of course not. Are they both examples of discrimination? Yes. Being fat, I have a glimmering of an understanding what it is like to be black. You are not Normal. People like you don’t appear as much on TV, and when they do, they often get crammed into specific, highly demeaning, roles. (It’s the Black Thug! It’s the Fat Slob!) And, yes, there is a constant stream of jokes and hurtful comments anytime the subject comes up.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Lojasmo:
But they’re not completely unlike one another, are they? Race is an aspect of everyone that they’re born with.
As far as size goes, could Chris Christie go on Atkins or Nutri-System or whatever and drop some pounds? Yes, I’m sure he probably could. Others have.
But, still, size is something else people are born with/have a predisposition toward. I think we all know people who are rail-skinny and can eat anything they want, whenever they want. I think we all know people who can diet like hell and never seem to be able to get it off and keep it off. Some people have fortunate metabolisms from the standpoint of body size, and some don’t.
To me, it’s not so much a conflation of racism versus size bigotry as just the fact that “fat fuck Christie” and “orange Boehner” and “crazy-eyes Bachmann” and “double-chin McConnell” and “Good Hair Perry,” etc., etc., are all so damn juvenile.
The people who gleefully resort to that shit over and over debase themselves. That’s their prerogative. Eemom sure did embrace her right to seem like an ass in that respect early this morning. But s/he could give a rat’s ass what I or anyone else think – that was established with crystalline clarity in the conversation – and that’s fine. I’m sure she believes I’m an ass for arguing with her.
But beyond the damage people do to themselves with that kind of thing, they damage the whole debate overall by giving the right shit to point to and say “See how all these so-called ‘intellectual’ liberals really are? They have no answer to [Christie’s/Bachmann’s/Perry’s/Santorum’s] arguments, so they’d prefer to focus on his/her [weight/crazy eyes/hair/Internet meme going on about them.] So much for the so-called ‘reality based community’ they like to go on and on about.”
From that perspective, it becomes more than “I make fun of people’s appearances, and you’re not the boss of me, so I’ll do it any time I like, and you can fuck off.” It weakens the arguments of, and muddies the waters for, others who’d prefer to talk about words/actions/policies over weight/coloration/appearance.
suzanne
@Elie:
Not only do I know that, I WASN’T EVEN ARGUING WITH HER POINT.
Yes, I was being arrogant. And yes, I do tell FourLoko, when she says stupid things, that she’s saying stupid things. There’s a world of difference between attacking someone for their views/actions/words/attacks and attacking someone for immutable characteristics that have fuck-all to do with the topic at hand.
As for the racism vs. size bigotry question, I think most sane people would say that size bigotry is real and hurtful, but isn’t as pervasive or as severe. But that doesn’t make it fucking acceptable. The link I posted above suggests that size discrimination is the third most prevalent in America, after race- and age-based discrimination. Maybe you believe that, maybe you don’t, but just because something isn’t *as bad* doesn’t make it *okay*.
The fact that some people who ostensibly care about making the world more fair for minorities, women, poor people, the disabled, LGBTs, etc., are defending their right to be fuckwads to fat people tells me a whole lot about those people. None of it’s positive.
Corner Stone
@Elie:
Who the fuck are you to mouth off on this here?
You’re the simple that tells multiple people to “go back to Red State”, or “get their milk and cookies” and go to bed.
You got nothing to high horse other commenters about.
Just because they disagree with your take.
Elie
@Corner Stone:
You are right, Corner. I have been mistaken at times and so has everyone here. But not YOU of course…
Point I am making has to do with what you and others would point out to ME or anyone. Our point of view is important, but so are those of others. No one here has a corner on righteousness and if you want someone to respect your opinion, respecting them might be a good place to start. I know, I know, not something you dig or do necessarily, but theoretically, you COULD.
Elie
@suzanne:
No worries suzanne…
I am on occasion a bit wild in my comments and opinions and usually regret it. Sometimes its also hard to pick up the right emphasis on comments — things like sarcasm sometimes are missed as are all the ins and outs on long discussions.
As I said, I agree with your point of view… just thought you were a bit harsh in demanding that eemom apologize. Of course it would be nice. She was harsh to you too.
Lets just say, we are a good community with a lot of individuals with different points of view that we know only through this site. Sometimes, the benefit of the doubt is important. Other times we know someone well enough after multiple interactions to get a sense of who they are a little more. I am as guilty as the next person of jumping to conclusions. Usually when I attack I don’t feel better for it — just pissed off the rest of the day. That has taught me a lesson that way.
Elie
@Corner Stone:
..And if I may, mindyourownbusiness.
But I say that in only the nicest way.
grandpajohn
@Citizen_X: Remember its AP reporting here what else would you expect after the headline they gave it.
Corner Stone
@Elie: You miss things like sarcasm and humor because you’re a dimwit. And a certifiable fucking whackaloon.
grandpajohn
@suzanne: Can I get you to also post a few hundred words about the abuse us southerners get here > I am from the south Voted for Obama even though I knew he couldn’t win in SC . I support him and the democratic agenda as do about 40% of voters here, so don’t call us cousin humpers, and red necks hillbillys or white trash, and other such derogatory terms. we are on the same side working for the same goals. See not being politically correct takes many faces and I get just as pissed by the callous slander of us southern democrats by some here as blacks, or fat people do about politically insensitive statements.
grandpajohn
@SRW1: Especially when it highjacks a thread that was about a totally different subject and leaves the rest of us in limbo.
Triassic Sands
@Geoduck:
We’re in agreement. My statement about Washington not being a definite win for Obama included the possibility that Romney could be the candidate. Since what I had written had been about Perry, you were correct to take exception, but I was speaking (or thinking) of all Republican candidates, not just Perry, when I put WA in the less than definite column. I don’t think Perry would win in Washington State.
Your shudder is shared and the candidacy of McKenna probably improves the chances of the Republican presidential candidate, though I can’t say by how much. In 2008, McKenna did better statewide than Obama (59.46% to 57.7%) and won in every county except Jefferson and the San Juan Islands. He won in King County…WTF? I’m going to fully support Inslee (the volunteer time I spent on Obama’s campaign in 2008 will probably go to Inslee in 2012), but I’m afraid he has a real uphill battle.
TenguPhule
Six tons of TNT or a half dozen hellfire missiles at the next Republican debate would solve so many problems for thid country…just saying.