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You are here: Home / Economics / Free Markets Solve Everything / American Psycho

American Psycho

by John Cole|  September 26, 20113:21 pm| 45 Comments

This post is in: Free Markets Solve Everything, Sociopaths

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This should surprise no one:

According to a new study at the University of St. Gallen seen by SPIEGEL, one contributing factor may be that stockbrokers’ behavior is more reckless and manipulative than that of psychopaths. Researchers at the Swiss research university measured the readiness to cooperate and the egotism of 28 professional traders who took part in computer simulations and intelligence tests. The results, compared with the behavior of psychopaths, exceeded the expectations of the study’s co-authors, forensic expert Pascal Scherrer, and Thomas Noll, a lead administrator at the Pöschwies prison north of Zürich.

“Naturally one can’t characterize the traders as deranged,” Noll told SPIEGEL. “But for example, they behaved more egotistically and were more willing to take risks than a group of psychopaths who took the same test.”

Particularly shocking for Noll was the fact that the bankers weren’t aiming for higher winnings than their comparison group. Instead they were more interested in achieving a competitive advantage. Instead of taking a sober and businesslike approach to reaching the highest profit, “it was most important to the traders to get more than their opponents,” Noll explained. “And they spent a lot of energy trying to damage their opponents.”

Using a metaphor to describe the behavior, Noll said the stockbrokers behaved as though their neighbor had the same car, “and they took after it with a baseball bat so they could look better themselves.”

We’re a country led by psychopaths and sociopaths. We shouldn’t really be shocked when GOP audiences are cheering executions. It’s just in our DNA.

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Reader Interactions

45Comments

  1. 1.

    eemom

    September 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    AWOL no more!

  2. 2.

    different-church-lady

    September 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    I’m finding that gif to be disturbing.

  3. 3.

    Narcissus

    September 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    It’s worse than that. We’re not just a country run by sociopaths, we’re a culture, a civilization run by sociopaths.

  4. 4.

    singfoom

    September 26, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Well, given that they act like psychopaths, perhaps it would be prudent to design regulations governing the sector in which they ‘work’ to prevent massive damage to the system / fraud by said psychopaths.

    Or would that stifle the Creators of Jobs everyone is jawing about all the time?

  5. 5.

    LanceThruster

    September 26, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    It’s just in our DNA.

    As Colin Quinn said in his recent special –


    We didn’t evolve from the tribe that starved to death waiting for their turn at the dinner table.

  6. 6.

    pragmatism

    September 26, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    the movie version of american psycho was just meh. the book is farging disturbing.

  7. 7.

    PeakVT

    September 26, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    It strikes me that psychopathic behavior in the corporate and financial world is self-reinforcing these days. So the most psychopathic end up with more money to spend on destroying everbody else.

    That might be a problem.

  8. 8.

    Bago

    September 26, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    I’d much rather have a bone white business card than a bone white femur.

  9. 9.

    trollhattan

    September 26, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Republicans once again show their willingness to kill Americans in pursuit of the appearance of “not killing” jobs. Which they clearly also don’t give a shit about.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-passes-bill-to-block-broad-environmental-protection-agency-rules/2011/09/23/gIQAV1WorK_story.html?wprss=rss_politics

  10. 10.

    Lee Hartmann

    September 26, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Taibbi had this nailed some time ago:

    “I know plenty of people who work in this world, and I’ve met very few who didn’t hate with every cell in their bodies anyone in their own companies who made more money than they did or got bigger bonuses at Christmastime. Gossiping about each others’ bonuses, and bitching about each others’ compensation, is the national pastime for these people.”

  11. 11.

    BGinCHI

    September 26, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    At least psychopaths eat what they kill.

  12. 12.

    tBoy

    September 26, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    More correctly – pathological narcissists

  13. 13.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    September 26, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Got to love the whole “It’s not I win that counts, it’s my neighbor loses”. It’s like Wallstreet has institutionalized the Warcraft Player verse Player server or EVE Online.

    We’re all orcs now.

  14. 14.

    gnomedad

    September 26, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    @trollhattan:
    Repeal the job-killing and unconstitutional speed limits and underage drinking laws, also, too!

  15. 15.

    Jack the Second

    September 26, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    So when we call Wall Street psychopaths, we are now officially, measurably being unfair to psychopaths?

  16. 16.

    Lex

    September 26, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    “Naturally one can’t characterize the traders as deranged,” Noll told SPIEGEL.

    Naturally? What’s natural about not calling psychopaths “deranged”?

  17. 17.

    srv

    September 26, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    While some study what is obvious, others make progress on the important stuff:

    http://www.gatech.edu/newsroom/release.html?nid=70083

    Shorter telomeres are not the cause, but an effect.

  18. 18.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    September 26, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Not your DNA, John, but heavily intertwined in your culture. Personally, I’m not surprised by this result; that trade seems to me to be a natural home for sociopaths.

  19. 19.

    brent

    September 26, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    @Lex:

    Thats the meat of it isn’t it. I mean, one has to assume that, if given space to explain, we would learn from the good doctor that there are additional criteria to meet the definition of deranged but its not at all clear from what we read there that any of us can just make the assumption that brokers don’t meet those criteria.

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    September 26, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    That’s pretty much the attitude of a lot of hardcore PvP (Player vs. Player) MMO types. If they can’t loot the player they just defeated, and inflict pain on them by taking their stuff, it’s not real PvP to them. The infliction of pain on the other is what attracts them.

  21. 21.

    johnsmith1882

    September 26, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Watch The Corporation; it details step by step how corporations are psychopaths. You know, if you want to get even more pissed off.

  22. 22.

    Amir Khalid

    September 26, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    I don’t know about the post headline. American Psycho? I realize that’s the title of the movie that the .GIF is from. But this story is in Der Spiegel, a German publication, reporting on research carried out at a Swiss university. It doesn’t say where the traders being studied were based, but I’d guess they were in Switzerland too, or at least in Europe. Certainly, the two rogue traders mentioned in the story are Europeans.

    It’s likely that a study of American traders would show a similar result. But it’s not yet certain; I’d like to see that American study before drawing conclusions about traders in America. Even better, I’d like to see a consensus in the conclusions from a number of such studies. Let’s try to avoid the pitfall common to so many stories on science: jumping to a conclusion based on only one study, before its methods and results have had proper scrutiny.

  23. 23.

    beltane

    September 26, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    I had an argument with my mother about this last night. You see, my cousin is one of the psychos. I will not nauseate you with the details of the bonus he is receiving this year, but when my mother said “But he worked hard for it”, I really could not contain myself. Being the beneficiary of a system that is ripe for destruction is not the same thing as “hard work”.

  24. 24.

    Southern Beale

    September 26, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    And speaking of Wall Street, if they wanted a war .. they got it…

    Am thinking this is counterproductive but since when did Anonymous ever listen to me?

  25. 25.

    kuvasz

    September 26, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    “We’re a country led by psychopaths and sociopaths”

    Of course, who the Hell do you think were the first Europeans off the boat? Religious fanatics and folks hiding from the law.

  26. 26.

    srv

    September 26, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Here ya go, a trader interviewed on the BBC tells the host he dreams about all the money he is going to make when the Euro collapses, and how government policy is irrelevant, because “Goldman Sachs controls the world”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA&feature=player_embedded#!

  27. 27.

    Gus diZerega

    September 26, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Our economy crossed a divide into self-destruction when the major rewards went not to people who created jobs and products, but to people who manipulated money and created nothing at all beyond ruined lives and corporate amorality.

  28. 28.

    daveNYC

    September 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    That’s pretty much the attitude of a lot of hardcore PvP (Player vs. Player) MMO types. If they can’t loot the player they just defeated, and inflict pain on them by taking their stuff, it’s not real PvP to them. The infliction of pain on the other is what attracts them.

    You kidding? That’s lightweight stuff compared to back in the before time. Back when Ultima Online came out, everyone was on a single open PVP world. Taking people’s stuff wasn’t enough, they had to take their stuff and then a$$rape the corpse. Because I guess they really needed to maximize the potential suffering or something.

    And the best part is that many of those same assholes consider themselves to be something akin to galtian producers, making claims that their assholish behavior somehow was an important element of the game, and that their ‘wolfish’ behavior somehow made the ‘sheep’ better.

    People are broken.

  29. 29.

    Lysana

    September 26, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Wait. You’re concern trolling about stock brokers? Wow.

  30. 30.

    different-church-lady

    September 26, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    @Gus diZerega:

    Our economy crossed a divide into self-destruction when the major rewards went not to people who created jobs and products, but to people who manipulated money and created nothing at all…

    …and the middle class went along with it, in behavior ranging from believing flipping houses was a legitimate long-term business to turning over their “savings” and “retirement funds” to stock brokers while continuing to believe they were still savings and retirement funds. Some even combined the two thinking that they could retire on the money their house was magically making.

    Everyone bought the delusion. Except the poor, who had no money to buy in with.

  31. 31.

    scav

    September 26, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    @Lysana: Doubt it. Suggesting one waits for more evidence to accumulate, rather along the lines of waiting for more proof of the faster-than-light speed stuff rather than instantly trumpeting Einstein is WRONG WRONG WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING! Not as much fun politically or emotionally, but intellectually it’s certainly a valid point.

  32. 32.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    September 26, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    @daveNYC:

    And the best part is that many of those same assholes consider themselves to be something akin to galtian producers, making claims that their assholish behavior somehow was an important element of the game, and that their ‘wolfish’ behavior somehow made the ‘sheep’ better.

    Yep, and anyone who refuses to wallow in the vileness is labeled “carebear”

    EVE Online is recreating it, they didn’t have avatars engage in post-mortem corpse rape but they are working on that now. So I guess EVE is the training ground of tomorrow’s traders.

    Figure though at some point it’s all going to collapse. You can’t run an economy on “do it for the LUZ” and other stupid things have nothing to do with making a profit.

  33. 33.

    Amir Khalid

    September 26, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    @Lysana:
    I’ve been commenting here long enough that people should know I’m no concern troll. And that’s not what I’m doing here.

    I’m saying, that’s only one study. Its conclusion, that stockmarket traders have strongly psychopathic traits, is appealing to people who disapprove of stockmarket traders. But one swallow does not a summer make; one study by itself is never proof. Is there a consensus yet among the researchers’ professional peers that they’re on to something here? The Spiegel cites none of those peers expressing an opinion on that, let alone other studies that might confirm the study out of the University of St Gallen. In this field among others, you need a consensus built around similar results from a number of studies.
    ETA: And what scav said #31, too.

  34. 34.

    Intercalation

    September 26, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid: It’s a perfectly reasonable comment to make in some contexts. In the context of a blog, however….

  35. 35.

    Corner Stone

    September 26, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Since it was Lysana you’re lucky you weren’t called a racist concern troll.

  36. 36.

    drew42

    September 26, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Watching Christian Bale dance while listening to Earth, Wind & Fire from the earlier post. Kinda fun.

  37. 37.

    DonkeyKong

    September 26, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Ask not what your country can do for you, ask how you can skull fuck your country.

  38. 38.

    DonkeyKong

    September 26, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    You gotta be crazy, you gotta have a real need.
    You gotta sleep on your toes, and when you’re on the street,
    You gotta be able to pick out the easy meat with your eyes closed.
    And then moving in silently, down wind and out of sight,
    You gotta strike when the moment is right without thinking.

    And after a while, you can work on points for style.
    Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
    A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.
    You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
    So that when they turn their backs on you,
    You’ll get the chance to put the knife in.

  39. 39.

    Fulcanelli

    September 26, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Here’s a new documentary on psychopaths:

    Fishead Movie

    You can watch it free online if you email for a password.

    Well worth your time.

    These fuckers are gonna devour us all if we don’t stop ’em.

  40. 40.

    Geeno

    September 26, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Loved Pink Floyd’s Animals, wanted to go with some friends to see it in Cleveland, but couldn’t scrape the cash together.
    Hope the ending of Sheep comes to pass
    “Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers
    March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.

    Have you heard the news?
    The dogs are dead!”

  41. 41.

    Samara Morgan

    September 26, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    It’s just in our DNA.

    no you dumbass cudlips.

    its in THEIR DNA.
    partly at least.

  42. 42.

    Chris Andersen

    September 26, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Using a metaphor to describe the behavior, Noll said the stockbrokers behaved as though their neighbor had the same car, “and they took after it with a baseball bat so they could look better themselves.”

    I think we just found the perfect metaphor for the tea party.

  43. 43.

    Chris Andersen

    September 26, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    @PeakVT:

    It strikes me that psychopathic behavior in the corporate and financial world is self-reinforcing these days. So the most psychopathic end up with more money to spend on destroying everbody else.

    Kind of a sociopathic version of The Peter Principle.

    People rise to the level of their mental instability.

  44. 44.

    DCLaw1

    September 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    “American Psycho” is exactly right. I’ve been reading the book, and this is precisely what Bret Easton Ellis was getting at, but in an intuitive way far ahead of his time.

  45. 45.

    WereBear

    September 27, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Late to the thread, but just wish to point out that psychopathology is not a mental disorder. This is their “normal.” We cannot cure or moderate it.

    It’s more along the lines of being brain-injured. Their brain doesn’t work right, but it’s not a mental disorder like depression or schizophrenia or even PTSD which can be treated. These people are missing the parts that connect to their soul.

    Unlike a lot of the rabid screamers in the GOP who ARE mentally disordered, psychopaths use them, but are not them.

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