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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / Mixed Message

Mixed Message

by Kay|  September 26, 20113:06 pm| 48 Comments

This post is in: Gay Rights are Human Rights, Both Sides Do It!

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This could go on for a while:

The ongoing and sometimes contentious debate in churches regarding homosexuality is back in the public eye in oversized print, thanks to 10 Toledo-area billboards proclaiming competing messages.

After Toledo’s Central United Methodist Church posted a single roadside billboard in late April that said, “Being Gay Is a Gift from God,” the Rev. Tony Scott of the Church on Strayer felt compelled to offer an opposing point of view. The Maumee megachurch this week bought nine billboards that proclaim, “Being Gay is NOT a Gift from God — Forgiveness, Love, and Eternal Life Are.”

Lynn Braun, chair of Central UMC’s lead team, said she was not surprised that another church is advertising a different theological opinion. “I’m somewhat surprised it didn’t happen earlier,” she said. “We felt it important to express our faith this way. I think people have the right to express their faith the way they see fit, and I think it helps the community to know where churches stand.”

Mr. Scott, who has been pastor of the 2,500-member church since 1974, said marriage is defined in the biblical book of Genesis and its story of Adam and Eve. “God’s definition of marriage is that he plumbed him and he plumbed her so that the two of them could procreate. Anything relationally between the sexes that does not have that potential, and that opportunity, does not come from God,” he said.

That’s beautiful, that passage on plumbing, don’t you think? Does he use that at weddings?

Dan Rutt, a member of Central United Methodist, said he believes his church’s billboards have achieved the goal of promoting public discussion and dialogue. “We certainly are aware that people disagree. “We clearly believe that being gay is a gift from God and obviously other people believe that it is not. I’m pleased to continue the dialogue. But it would be nice to talk face to face instead of billboard to billboard.”

They’re beating us in the billboard debate, incidentally. Nine to one:

The Rev. Bill Barnard, Central’s pastor, said the most surprising thing to him about the Church on Strayer’s billboards was the financial commitment. “My first thought was, ‘Wow, nine billboards! That’s quite an investment,’ ” Mr. Barnard said. “We just have one, and that’s an investment for us. They must be really serious about this.”

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Reader Interactions

48Comments

  1. 1.

    BGinCHI

    September 26, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    And on the 8th Day, God created Plumbing. And he saw that it was good, though always more expensive than the estimate.

    /apocrypha

  2. 2.

    Calouste

    September 26, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Doesn’t Scott realize that all that money he spends on billboards he can’t spend on meth and gay hookers?

  3. 3.

    jibeaux

    September 26, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    If I were going to pick a church now, I’d go Methodist. They seem a nice, tolerant lot, but not as mooshy as the Unitarians, and they have the best hymns.
    The fact that these are my criteria for joining explains a lot as to why I don’t go to church anymore.

  4. 4.

    ellie

    September 26, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    I am in Toledo and drove by one of these today. Yes, they are serious about their hate.

  5. 5.

    NonyNony

    September 26, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    “My first thought was, ‘Wow, nine billboards! That’s quite an investment,’ ” Mr. Barnard said. “We just have one, and that’s an investment for us. They must be really serious about this.”

    See now that’s probably the mark of a geniune, generous good-hearted Christian.

    Because MY first thought was “Damn – they have money to waste on NINE billboards because their faith is so goddamn fragile that another church with one billboard is threatening it? How much do you suppose they spend on feeding the poor and clothing the needy if they have money to waste on NINE billboards?”

  6. 6.

    kay

    September 26, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    @Calouste:

    I love how they responded with overwhelming force.

    Did they really have to buy nine? Isn’t that sort of over-kill, in response to one?

  7. 7.

    cathyx

    September 26, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    What religion is this megachurch?

  8. 8.

    Bulworth

    September 26, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    The anti gay position is apparently so weak that one pro teh gay billboard must be met with 9. Good grief.

  9. 9.

    BGinCHI

    September 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    What’s this fuckhead’s rationale for letting people who can’t procreate get married?

    Are they testing straight people to make sure they have the proper plumbing and sperm delivery systems?

    Is this all they’ve got? They are out of ideas and as soon as these old white people die we can get on with our lives, gay, straight, and other.

  10. 10.

    zmulls

    September 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Anything relationally between the sexes that does not have that potential, and that opportunity, does not come from God

    So a 70-year-old man who wants to marry a 60-year-old woman? No potential for procreation, no matter what they do with their plumbing — so that union does not “come from God.”

    Woman or man infertile, wants to marry? Sorry, Charlie (or Charlotte) — no procreation, God doesn’t want to hear about it.

  11. 11.

    singfoom

    September 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Conservative church doesn’t agree with liberal church, doesn’t like gays, film at 11.

    Dogmatists gonna follow dogma.

    I’m not a believer, but is there anything in the bible about minding your own fucking business? People can have sex in whatever combinations they want to come up with, as far as I’m concerned, as long as everyone is of age and consenting.

    Thanks Puritans, you fucking jerks.

  12. 12.

    Southern Beale

    September 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Speaking of teh gaiii, just saw that Sean Maher, the actor who played the doctor on Firefly, has come out … he’s gay, in a long-term relationship, has 2 kids with his partner.

    Good for him.

  13. 13.

    NonyNony

    September 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    @kay:

    Did they really have to buy nine? Isn’t that sort of over-kill, in response to one?

    You’d think. But the one billboard questions their manliness and so they must respond by overwhelmingly showing their manliness.

    It’s just a massive religious dick-waving contest. The Methodists don’t even have to realize that they’re participating in it either – their billboard has caused Pastor Scott to feel that he needs to whip out his dick and prove his manliness. So nine billboards later Scott’s desire to prove his manliness has been sufficiently quenched. For now.

  14. 14.

    Southern Beale

    September 26, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Anything relationally between the sexes that does not have that potential, and that opportunity, does not come from God,” he said.

    Since I’m post-menopausal and can’t possibly procreate, I guess any sex I have (hetero, marital, etc.) is NOT from God then. Good to know.

    Also, please be sure to spread that message to other hetero couples. You know, women who’ve had hysterectomies, men who’ve had vasectomies, etc. That will go far.

    Dumbass.

  15. 15.

    Lee

    September 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    I really can’t wait until we reach the point that no one has to ‘come out’ and when we do learn someone is gay everyone’s reaction is ‘So?’

  16. 16.

    Southern Beale

    September 26, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    @zmulls:

    Woops. Didn’t see your comment.

    Okay, what zmulis said.

  17. 17.

    Mojotron

    September 26, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Waiting for the “FREE DOG SOULS WITH CONVERSION” sign.

  18. 18.

    Culture of Truth

    September 26, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    “The white zone is for loading and unloading only!”

  19. 19.

    zmulls

    September 26, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    @Southern Beale: It’s OK…I enjoy a good southern-twanged rant myself

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    September 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    @cathyx:

    American Protestants are pretty splintered, so my guess is that it’s something that was originally along Baptist lines but split into “Whatever My Pastor Says, Goes” Christianity.

  21. 21.

    John Weiss

    September 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    These “Christians” spending money on billboards while there are the hungry all around them. Assholes.

  22. 22.

    Roger Moore

    September 26, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    @cathyx:

    What religion is this megachurch?

    They claim to be Christian, but I’m guessing they mostly worship Mammon. That seems to be a common trend. The less attention they pay to Matthew 6, the more attention they pay to the almighty dollar.

  23. 23.

    goblue72

    September 26, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    @Southern Beale: Well, that certainly helps explain why he kept failing to tap Kaylee’s a$$.

  24. 24.

    Keith G

    September 26, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Thanks for the post, Kay. That quite truly was my H.S. stomping ground. In the mid 70s Strayer Rd was mostly woods and pastures and a notoriously great place to..um..park.

    I can see by Google Maps that the church sanctuary is at a spot where as 17 yr olds my boy friend and I used to visit. Ironically, we had consecrated that ground with our own brand of plumbing.

    Take that Pastor Scott.

  25. 25.

    Professor

    September 26, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    @zmulls: If they believe in science, they will go for IVF (invitro fertilization)and that will solve the little problem of procreation. See Gawd has ways of solving problems!

  26. 26.

    Ash Can

    September 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    he plumbed him and he plumbed her

    This is all these people care about — a grotesque and obscene caricature of adult affection and intimacy. They are the true debasers of the institution of marriage.

  27. 27.

    Culture of Truth

    September 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    If I were going to pick a church now, I’d go Methodist. They seem a nice, tolerant lot

    I’d go with the one with most billboards. Always a sign a good religion with big bucks and its priorities straight.

  28. 28.

    cleek

    September 26, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    just FYI, the first 9.5 pages of Google results for “adam eve plumbed” are all references to the same two OH plumbing companies.

    that’s some sweet search engine optimization they got goin on.

  29. 29.

    Bago

    September 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    9 You say… Who’s the odd man out?

  30. 30.

    zmulls

    September 26, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    I get how Adam plumbs Eve, but have they thought through how Eve plumbs Adam?

    There are some good fetish videos on the subject….

  31. 31.

    Culture of Truth

    September 26, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    That was no apple, it was a plum! It all makes sense now!

  32. 32.

    catclub

    September 26, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    @NonyNony: I can just bet that the billboards are coming out of the ‘outreach’ budget for each church. Outreach is typically a combination of:
    a) what gets spent trolling for new members and b) what gets spent doing good works in the community.

    CoTtruth @ 29: “I’d go with the one with most billboards.”
    Old style was a gigantic, gold leaf covered cathedral.

  33. 33.

    toujoursdan

    September 26, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Isn’t this the example of the “good” Christians fighting back against the Christo-fascists that many have wanted more of? I would have expected a bit more of “Good for those Methodists.”

  34. 34.

    catclub

    September 26, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    @zmulls: Virtually all the bible phrases are ‘Adam _knew_ Eve.’ Very few cases of ‘Eve _knew_ Adam.’ I guess the only exception I can think of is Onan and his daughters. Not many cases of ‘Adam and Eve made the beast with two backs.’

  35. 35.

    jayjaybear

    September 26, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Eve plumbs? What’s Jan Brady got to do with this?

  36. 36.

    Southern Beale

    September 26, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    I googled Adam and Eve and got a sex toy company.

    { giggles }

  37. 37.

    Mnemosyne

    September 26, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    @Professor:

    In some ways, I think that’s what a lot of anti-gay-marriage people still have the hardest time with: understanding that the urge to raise children and the urge to have hetero sex are actually two different urges.

    It makes perfect sense from an evolutionary point of view — if primates were unable or unwilling to care for unrelated members of their species, we would have died out long ago — but that does seem to be one of the big mental blocks for some people.

  38. 38.

    slag

    September 26, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    God’s definition of marriage is that he plumbed him and he plumbed her so that the two of them could procreate.

    God would do well to get his mind out of the sewer.

  39. 39.

    jibeaux

    September 26, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    I think for clarification, the wacko means, “He [God] plumbed him and He [God] plumbed her”, not like he plumbed her and she plumbed him and boy they got that toilet working in a hurry , or whatever.

  40. 40.

    catclub

    September 26, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    @jibeaux: I am not sure I really want to _clearly_ know what the wacko means.

    Two phrases from Monty Python’s Australian Table wines skit.

    “This vintage has a message and the message is beware.”

    “A bouquet like an aborigines armpit.”

    also something about “…putting down and avoiding.”

  41. 41.

    daveNYC

    September 26, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    @goblue72:

    Well, that certainly helps explain why he kept failing to tap Kaylee’s a$$.

    There’s still no excuse.

  42. 42.

    Mustang Bobby

    September 26, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    I was in Toledo this weekend when the story appeared in The Blade. And wow, you should read some of the comments on the paper’s website about the story… well, don’t if you don’t want to barf on your keyboard. These people are vicious.

    I don’t know where I saw it, but there’s a great bit of wisdom out there in the blogosphere: “Religion is like a penis. It’s fine to have one. It’s fine to be proud of it. But don’t whip it out in public, and don’t try to shove it down our children’s throats.”

  43. 43.

    Julia Grey

    September 26, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    God’s definition of marriage is that he plumbed him and he plumbed her so that the two of them could procreate.

    How far down did he plumb?

  44. 44.

    Robert Hagedorn

    September 26, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Can anyone explain what kind of fruit Adam and Eve ate in the story? After 6000+ years I think we’re all due an intelligent explanation. No guesses, opinions, or beliefs–just the facts that we know. But first, do a search: First Scandal.

  45. 45.

    Frankensteinbeck

    September 26, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    The 9-to-1 billboards thing is, I think, an important lesson politically. Most people are just fine with homosexuality, but the people who aren’t care TEN TIMES AS MUCH.

  46. 46.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 26, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    @jibeaux:

    Episcopalians have the best hymns.

    Not that I would know first-hand for the past 50 years.

  47. 47.

    Mr. Stagger Lee

    September 26, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    @Lee: I would like to see some sports guys come out. Not some third string bench warmer, but a true all-star, that is the final frontier.

  48. 48.

    The Other Chuck

    September 26, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    @jibeaux:

    I think for clarification, the wacko means, “He [God] plumbed him and He [God] plumbed her”

    So basically they had a threesome.

    Yowza.

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