Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

We still have time to mess this up!

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

You are here: Home / Occupy Wall Street About to Go Mainstream

Reader Interactions

281Comments

  2. 2.

    cathyx

    There are so many people who are affected by what Wall Street is doing, it crosses every divide. I hope it keeps growing.

  8. 8.

    Maude

    My, oh, my.
    Wall Street is about to be interesting. The suits will hate this.
    As I said in the other thread about this, turn on the light and watch the roaches run. They were so arrogant that they took down the economy here and in Europe.

  9. 9.

    jeff

    Given the logistics down there, I just don’t see how the Mayor can let that many people protest. It’s just a horrible physical hazard. I’m so pissed off at the NYPD right now, but I know that there cannot be several thousand non-circulating people physically occupying the area directly on Wall Street.

    I hope the Mayor can suggest something close enough…but there’s just no room in sight of the NYSE building.

    Is the protest working with the City on logistics?

  10. 10.

    Linda Featheringill

    It is interesting.

    There is activity in several locations, some of it in the planning stages. I’ve seen [online] evidence of stuff happening in Kentucky, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Texas, Arizona, Minnesota in the north, and the complete west coast. On the east coast, Massachusetts and Maine are busy. And I’ve probably missed some.

  12. 12.

    JC

    Now, there are always protests here, but I think one just opened up at Montgomery and Market, downtown San Francisco. I hear them from my office.

    In truth, it gets annoying, but I hope this one has a bit of a ‘smarter’ vibe. But we’ll see.

    Again – what is the goal? Since Dems and Rethugs are in the pocket of Wall Street – but only Dems are persuadable – what will WORK??

  15. 15.

    Lojasmo

    I blame Tony balony Barak Obama.

    Hey, if you losers are lucky, it will be just as successful as all those Iraq War protests!

    Fuck you

  16. 16.

    Davis X. Machina

    The numbers are still somewhere between 10 and 100 times smaller than Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert were able to put together.

    There is, apparently, and I’d be happy to be proven wrong, far greater support in this country for arch, ironic detachment than social justice.

  17. 17.

    RossInDetroit

    Crain’s also quoted a political consultant who said of the demonstration: “”It’s become too big to ignore.”

    Some will manage to ignore it anyway.

  18. 18.

    contessakitty (AKA Karen)

    Hopefully they can keep it as non-violent as possible. I know that protestors were sprayed with mace which I think is reprehensible but the minute the protestors are violent all sympathy for them will vanish.

  19. 19.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Linda Featheringill:

    I hope it remains wrong for us…lol! This is a VERY smart move on the part of the unions, aligning themselves with the protesters and against money and power will help both/all parties in this endeavor.

    I really hope it takes off because we NEED something like this to succeed.

  20. 20.

    TenguPhule

    but what is the end game for Occupy Wall Street?

    Lynched brokers on lamppoles followed by burning on oil barrels. And mass looting and pillaging of Goldman Sach by the vast unwashed hordes.

  22. 22.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @contessakitty (AKA Karen):

    Yup, and there will be agitators. No doubt about it. From anarchists to paid infiltrators to Tony Baloney-type cops, someone is going to agitate for violence/incite the crowd to disrupt this movement.

    You can bet on it. Big money bet.

    @TenguPhule:

    Can I join in the fun if I bathe beforehand or is being unwashed a requirement?

  24. 24.

    Lysana

    Okay, even with some of the arrogant BS being thrown at people who are questioning this, I like it. I’ve also finally seen a list of what they want, and it makes sense. I, too, am glad to see my cynicism countered.

  25. 25.

    Reality Check

    Will this be AS successful as the Iraq War protests, or is that level of a major world changing shift just too much to ask for?

  27. 27.

    danimal

    There has been no type of reprecussion for the Wall Street Banksters. Annoying them, making getting to their jobs harder, reminding them of their (un)popularity level, showing them that there is a growing constituency that isn’t swallowing their swill; there are lots of positive end results. The most important result being, if they are a little scared that things may get out of control, they just may sign off on practical financial reforms.

    God knows they deserve to live in a little bit of fear. It’s either DFHs on the street corner or guillotines in the town square; if you ask me, they’re still getting a pretty good deal.

  28. 28.

    metricpenny

    Loving this! Vocal and visual representation of the frustrations of middle-class working folks. That is all the “end game” I need.

    OWS and the unions – show ’em what we working with!

    Cole, did you add a new tag? LOL!

  29. 29.

    Violet

    The Wall Street Journal had an article about the protests yesterday or the day before. I thought it was interesting that they even chose to acknowledge the protests.

  32. 32.

    Samara Morgan

    @Tomjones: mission statement

    On the 17th of September, we want to see 20,000 people to flood into lower Manhattan, set up tents, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months. Once there, we shall incessantly repeat one simple demand in a plurality of voices and we will not leave until that demand has been met.
    Like our brothers and sisters in Egypt, Greece, Spain, and Iceland, we plan to use the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic of mass occupation to restore democracy in America. We also encourage the use of nonviolence to achieve our ends and maximize the safety of all participants.
    Together we will build assemblies of people along every street of lower Manhattan from Wall Street to Washington Heights.

  34. 34.

    slag

    @Davis X. Machina: Heh. I forgot about that one. I remember a lot of people complaining at the time that they didn’t know what that rally was about either (ahemDougJ). Happy days are here again!

    As for OWS, I hope that when all of these groups do join forces, they’ll be able to agree on an actionable plan. Something beyond just raising awareness of Wall Street’s intrusion into government. Something concrete that they, as a unified group, can get in return for all their time and effort spent.

  35. 35.

    Cat Lady

    Interesting that no politicians have shown up yet, like all the teatard marches had. It seems like this is right up Bernie Sanders’ alley. I won’t hold my breath about Chuck Schumer making a show of support.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    My concern about this protest was always that the protestors will eventually realize that the media will cover them only if they attack Obama and the Democrats, so that’s how things would end up. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

  38. 38.

    Reality Check

    I think what will really swing Middle America to your side is the Jesus crucified on a dollar sign. That’s sure to get some swing votes!

  40. 40.

    singfoom

    @Samara Morgan: Shhhh. People can’t understand that mission statement. Sure, they can read those words, but “What does it mean?” “What do they want?”
    “Their goals are so amorphous..” “Why aren’t they more organized?”
    /all of the questions in quotes are snark

    I support Occupy Wall Street and their CLEAR goal of untangling the horrible corruption OF BOTH PARTIES in our political system from the MOUNDS AND MOUNDS of cash from Wall Street.

  42. 42.

    Corner Stone

    The Village Voice spoke with TWU Local 100’s spokesman Jim Gannon

    What’s hilarious is this guy doesn’t seem to have a problem understanding what this protest is about:

    It’s the workers having to sacrifice while the wealthy get away scot-free. It’s kind of a natural alliance with the young people and the students — they’re voicing our message, why not join them? On many levels, our workers feel an affinity with the kids. They just seem to be hanging out there getting the crap beaten out of them, and maybe union support will help them out a little bit.”

  44. 44.

    doofus

    Since this is the Mea Culpa thread let me also admit I was wrong. They are much more successful than I imagined they would be. I hope this continues to snowball.

  45. 45.

    Citizen_X

    @Reality Check:

    Hey, if you losers are lucky, it will be just as successful as all those Iraq War protests!

    Well, it can’t possibly be as much of a blood-soaked failure as the Iraq War itself, so we got that going for us.

  47. 47.

    Jay B.

    Hate to be a buzzkill, but what is the end game for Occupy Wall Street?

    Establishing a caliphate, obviously.

    But seriously, who cares? Is that how it’s done now — sure you might have a critique against the sector that has basically ruined the world, but without a mission statement and some obvious, achievable set goals, it seems worthless.

    You may as well ask what’s the end game of posting online? What’s the point of having an opinion? Or expressing it? If you don’t have a set of objectives that should be met, why say shit at all?

    More obviously: It’s shining a spotlight on one of the sectors (hand in pocket with the scum-sucking losers in DC and on the Koch teat) that has gutted this country. We should focus on it and them. It’s beyond time.

  48. 48.

    Cat Lady

    @Reality Check:

    Have you jumped on the Cain bandwagon yet? That Pawlenty thing worked out well, and the Perry bandwagon appears to be headed toward the same ditch. Your laser-sharp instincts are terrible to behold. And by terrible, I mean terrible.

  50. 50.

    Emma

    Cool! Now, is there anything those of us not in NY can do to support it? I get paid tomorrow, just saying…

  53. 53.

    SFPoet

    @JC: The #OccupySF protests started at the same time as the one on Wall Street. It has a small, committed core of people so far.. but I think it’s growing in San Francisco too. Occupy Washington DC, Los Angeles, etc. protests are being organized and will start very soon.
    I’m cautiously optimistic about these protests, so far.

  54. 54.

    Samara Morgan

    @singfoom: then make a sound byte, wouldja? since you got the signal.

    i think im gunna do my hair like Zach de la Rocha’s for the G8.
    but longer.

  57. 57.

    nancydarling

    @ABL: @ABL: I got beat up around here a few days ago for “hoping” it would grow in something more. “Hope is not a plan. What’s the goal? blah, blah, blah.” I was never cynical and I grow more hopeful every day.

  59. 59.

    Corner Stone

    @Mark S.:

    I still need to know what their endgame is.

    It’s the same as every other protest with cartoon characters, to take over the world.

  61. 61.

    different-church-lady

    @Davis X. Machina: Don’t discount the sleeper effect. A month or two from now I’d rather be talking about this in the present tense than talking about 20k in the past tense.

  62. 62.

    pete

    @Mark S.: No you don’t. If you become involved, you will affect the endgame. If you chose to moan on the sidelines, you’ll find out after it’s finished.

  63. 63.

    burnspbesq

    Reality Check is an asshole, but I share his skepticism about outcomes here. It would be great if this would cause the SEC, the CFTC, and Preet Bharara’s office to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone really think that’s going to happen?

  65. 65.

    different-church-lady

    @singfoom:

    I support Occupy Wall Street and their CLEAR goal of untangling the horrible corruption OF BOTH PARTIES in our political system from the MOUNDS AND MOUNDS of cash from Wall Street.

    I support OWS, but if you think they’ve got a clear goal you’re nuts.

  66. 66.

    slag

    @singfoom: So, here’s my dilemma. I went to order them an Occu-Pie online, but the Zuccotti interface asked me for a delivery address, including Zip Code. After going back to the donation page, I see OWS’s physical address is listed as a UPS store, which doesn’t allow perishables anyway. I realize this question has nothing whatsoever to do with neutrinos, so it may be unanswerable for most of us, but I’m asking anyway…what am I missing?

  67. 67.

    burnspbesq

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m highly confident that this is snark, and that you are not actually advocating the commission of violent felonies.

    If I’m wrong, then GFY.

  68. 68.

    General Stuck

    Well, I advised the Wall Street protesters to picket government, because doing it to private business wouldn’t work very well. Looks like I was wrong about that. More power to them.

  69. 69.

    different-church-lady

    @Mark S.: It’s a variation on the timeworn Underpants Gnomes Gambit:

    1) Steal Wallstreet’s underpants.
    2) Hope others join in stealing Wallstreet’s underpants
    3) ?

    And this time it may just be crazy enough to work.

  72. 72.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Tomjones:
    There isn’t one. Wall street cares jack squat about Occupy Wall Street. However, OTHER concerns appear to have realized they can suck up the undeserved publicity Occupy Wall Street has gotten and get their own protests acknowledged by the media. And that’s *fine* by me.

  73. 73.

    Reality Check

    @CatLady
    Perry isn’t finished yet. In any event I’m endorsing Christie if he jumps in the race. He will be certain to make quite a splash if he does.

  75. 75.

    singfoom

    @different-church-lady: Well, that’s the goal I get them having from having read their mission statement. I think it’s pretty clear. Is it a complex goal? Yes, absolutely. Do I have step by step instructions as how to achieve it, no. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a goal.

    Cheer.

  76. 76.

    eemom

    why don’t you people all just STFU and see what happens? Since none of y’all are actually going to DO anything to affect the outcome.

    Sheeyit. My Dad taught me what a “Monday morning quarterback” was. I wonder what he’d make of this. “Post-instant-replay quarterback”, perhaps?

  77. 77.

    Jrod

    No no no. This protest can’t possibly be going anywhere. The people who started it look weird and play with drums.

    Nope nope nope. We need to scrap the whole thing and wait until some real hardworking whitebread middle-class Americans start a more pure protest before we do anything.

    Of course, it goes without saying that nobody younger than 40 or who doesn’t wear khakis seven days a week has a part to play. They’re just too dirty and uncouth for any real Americans to lay eyes on without panicking so hard they vote for Michele Bachmann.

    In short, these protests have already failed. We need to stop encouraging these hood and ruffians.

  78. 78.

    PeakVT

    Being vague about their goals might be a good tactic. It leaves their opponents with nothing firm to attack. And believe me, as soon as they made a list the right-wing think tanks and right-wing media outlets would start to spin the specifics.

  79. 79.

    Rihilism

    But will they have a unifying message? Will they remain non-violent? But, most importantly, will lunch be served?

    Dear me, this has to be one of the most organic protests that I’ve ever witnessed. It’s not at all surprising to me that it has been less than coherent. Personally, if the only result is that some Wall Street shit-stains have the fear of Gawd put in them, then I would judge it as a success given the ginormous systemic barriers to ANY sort of reform.

    But keep in mind, had these people given up, if they hadn’t maintained the protest, if they had decided that media attention was required for a “successful” protest, then there wouldn’t be any protest for the unions to join, no movement to build on, no sustained effort to affect change or to make demands.

    Sure, there needs to be coordination and clear demands which the unions can assist with. But for crying out loud, these people said fuck this shit, got off their butts, and started screaming “ENOUGH”. It was a start, a damn good start, and even if it only comes to some Wall Street motherfuckers getting just a bit more uncomfortable, a bit more hesitant to fuck over the country yet again, a bit less likely to act on their sociopathic tendencies, then I will find myself in their debt…

  81. 81.

    aisce

    @ tomjones

    Hate to be a buzzkill, but what is the end game for Occupy Wall Street?

    to defeat that corporatist thug in the white house, duh.

    basically your worst nightmare, broseph. to the battlements!

    @ frankensteinbeck

    i fucking love you obots. never change.

  82. 82.

    Samara Morgan

    @Mark S.: goals.

    anonops AnonOps
    We are fighters for internet freedom.

    AnonymousIRC AnonymousIRC
    We are Anonymous. We are #AntiSec We are Legion.We do not forgive. We do not forget. We love you. Expect us.Bitcoins to: 18NHixaoQekQJ3y52aBGJJwgBWX9X3myYR

    wikileaks WikiLeaks
    We open governments.

    success!

  83. 83.

    OzoneR

    @Jrod:

    Nope nope nope. We need to scrap the whole thing and wait until some real hardworking whitebread middle-class Americans start a more pure protest before we do anything.

    Well, whitebread middle-class Americans just decided to turn it into a more pure protest.

  84. 84.

    different-church-lady

    @singfoom: I guess the mistake I’m making here is viewing the word “goal” as meaning “something achievable directly due to the action taken” rather than “fantasy”.

    Even in light of that statement I’m not trying to dump on them. As I said in one of the other threads, if all that comes out of their efforts is that they provided a center of gravity for a broader protest then they’ll have accomplished quite a bit.

  85. 85.

    Jrod

    @burnspbesq:

    Reality Check is an asshole, but I share his skepticism about outcomes here. It would be great if this would cause the SEC, the CFTC, and Preet Bharara’s office to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone really think that’s going to happen?

    Yes! Finally a voice of reason! Since this protest probably won’t end in utopia, everyone involved is an idiot! Thank you for your vast wisdom, Burnsie.

    You heard the man. The protest is over and we lost again. All because of those damn dirty hippies! Everyone go home.

  86. 86.

    slag

    @Linda Featheringill: Yeah. Part of me wants to shake fist at hippies for not making it easier to order them a damned pizza. Another part of me recognizes that I have this same reaction to almost every website I ever visit. Fuckers all. Why can’t the world come up with a cohesive message?!

  88. 88.

    Corner Stone

    @PeakVT:

    And believe me, as soon as they made a list the right-wing think tanks and right-wing media outlets would start to spin the specifics.

    And as soon as they had a leader or a “spokesperson” that individual would get the shit tag teamed out of him/her. Ripped from ass to appetite.

  89. 89.

    OzoneR

    @Tomjones:

    Hate to be a buzzkill, but what is the end game for Occupy Wall Street?

    influence public policy. You can do that with a bunch of hippies banging drums, you can do that with pilots, hotel workers, restaurant servers, etc.

  91. 91.

    General Stuck

    @eemom:

    Sheeyit. My Dad taught me what a “Monday morning quarterback” was. I wonder what he’d make of this. “Post-instant-replay quarterback”, perhaps?

    I think you might have your sports metaphors mixed a little eemom. “Monday Morning Quarterback” occurs after the game, and we are speculating, as you note, while the game is still on, in real time.

    How drab it would be if we couldn’t do play by play and express our bets with the flow of the game.

  93. 93.

    Jay B.

    It would be great if this would cause the SEC, the CFTC, and Preet Bharara’s office to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone really think that’s going to happen?

    No.

    And I thought that voting in massive Democratic majorities and a Democratic president would have caused the party to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone think voting for them again in 2012 will change anything?

    At least they can’t be any more incompetent or incoherent than the Democrats.

  94. 94.

    Jrod

    @OzoneR: Nope. Sorry. This protest is permanently tainted by association with the sort of people who look like they might break out giant puppets, therefore it’s worthless. This is what I’ve been reading on this site for several days now, so it must be true!

  96. 96.

    OzoneR

    @burnspbesq:

    It would be great if this would cause the SEC, the CFTC, and Preet Bharara’s office to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone really think that’s going to happen?

    no, but it doesn’t have to. Look, Wall Street people aren’t going to jail. That’s a reality we’re going to have to accept, mainly because much of what they did wasn’t illegal. The goal should be to change public policy so it never happens again.

  99. 99.

    Baud

    @Jay B.:

    And I thought that voting in massive Democratic majorities and a Democratic president would have caused the party to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone think voting for them again in 2012 will change anything?

    Yes. And I hope the protestors do too, or they are just wasting everyone’s time.

  100. 100.

    different-church-lady

    @OzoneR:

    Look, Wall Street people aren’t going to jail. That’s a reality we’re going to have to accept, mainly because much of what they did wasn’t illegal. The goal should be to change public policy so it never happens again.

    Dammit, why are the internets never mine to award?

  102. 102.

    OzoneR

    @Jrod: .

    This protest is permanently tainted by association with the sort of people who look like they might break out giant puppets, therefore it’s worthless. This is what I’ve been reading on this site for several days now, so it must be true!

    it was worthless until unions and working class got involved.

  103. 103.

    OzoneR

    @Jay B.:

    And I thought that voting in massive Democratic majorities and a Democratic president would have caused the party to wake up and start kicking ass, but does anyone think voting for them again in 2012 will change anything?

    the reality is, every time we elect a Democratic majority, it’s more progressive that the one before it. The 111th Congress was more progressive that the 1993-1995 Congress, which was more progressive than the 1978-1980 Congress.

    So, yes, I do think voting for them again will change anything, especially if they’re voted in on a campaign to regulate Wall Street. That’s not what they won on in 2006 and 2008, they mainly won on the war and the economy, not Wall Street.

  104. 104.

    Wee Bey

    Greenwald haz a angry:

    Does anyone really not know what the basic message is of this protest: that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else?

    As if you needed further proof he sucks at everything. Stencil that on a placard for me, would you Glenzilla?

  105. 105.

    Reality Check

    @AshCan

    The pun was intended. I was seeing how quickly it would take for a liberal to start with the fat jokes.

    I’ll repeat: Perry is NOT FINISHED despite his idiotic comments on immigration giving me second thoughts, however Christie is far and away our rock star candidate that could put this thing away. Romney is just boring.

  106. 106.

    Mnemosyne

    @Reality Check:

    Hey, if you losers are lucky, it will be just as successful as all those Iraq War protests!

    After all, the Iraq War was a brilliant success that paid for itself, just as the Bush Administration promised. All of those people who protested that it was a really bad idea sure look like fools now, don’t they?

  108. 108.

    Reality Check

    @Mnemosyne

    The failed Obama stimulus cost more than the entire Iraq War. But hey, we got to shovel a lot of money to Solyndra!

  109. 109.

    OzoneR

    @Wee Bey: I think a lot of people don’t know what the basic message is, and that’s the problem we were all harping on earlier in the week.

    Part of that is press coverage, part of that is because the people organizing the protest didn’t articulate a clear message.

    The pilots today, they did. The unions that voted to support them, they have.

  111. 111.

    Wee Bey

    @OzoneR:

    Oh, I know. I was mocking Greenwald’s attempt to distill a message into something short, sweet and memorable.

    Ideology aside, you couldn’t find a worse sloganeer on the planet.

  114. 114.

    Baud

    @OzoneR: And if we could actually the Dems in control of government for 4-6 years at a time, we would really see some amazing progress. Two-and-out is the real problem.

  115. 115.

    Cain

    here is my take.. We have long asked our young people to wake up and participate in govt. I am jot going to fault there people in getting off their ass and doing something. They are better than us, sitting there bitching but doing nothing. At least they are doing something. I am jot going to fault that.

    if I was living there I would probably try to tell them ho2 to get involved as voters as well and turn them into campaigners.

    he’ll if I was Obama I would send his minions there.

  116. 116.

    Svensker

    @Reality Check:

    Hey, if you losers are lucky, it will be just as successful as all those Iraq War protests!

    Yeah, the Iraq War was such a rousing success, removing an imminent danger to the terrified citizens of the United States and making us a stronger and better nation. Yippee! I am SO embarrassed I protested that thing. I mean, just look at the prosperity it has brought us, not to mention peace and ponies in the Middle East!

  117. 117.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Wee Bey: Greenwald thinks, apparently, that we can’t figure out why Adsense & Co. are doing what they’re doing. I think anybody who doesn’t live in a cave — or a mansion — has figured out by now that the FIRE sector is not our friend, and that macroeconomically we’re in a deep hole.

    Right answer to the wrong question.

  119. 119.

    danimal

    @Wee Bey: Apparently I’m the prime cudlip here, and I was expressing support for the effort, as undefined and amorphous as it may be.

    Cudlips of the World, Unite!

  123. 123.

    different-church-lady

    @OzoneR:

    Part of that is press coverage, part of that is because the people organizing the protest didn’t articulate a clear message.

    But probably the most major part of it is because they think the message is self-evident. And they kinda don’t get the concept that if something is self-evident you don’t need to organize protests.

  126. 126.

    Samara Morgan

    democracy NOW!

    “It’s impossible to translate the issue of the greed of Wall Street into one demand, or two demands. We’re talking about a democratic awakening,” said Dr. Cornel West when he spoke with Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman during a visit Tuesday night to the Occupy Wall Street encampment. Some critics have expressed frustration at the protest’s lack of a clear and unified message. But the Princeton University professor emphasized that “you’re talking about raising political consciousness so it spills over all parts of the country, so people can begin to see what’s going on through a set of different lens, and then you begin to highlight what the more detailed demands would be. Because in the end we’re really talking about what Martin King would call a revolution: A transfer of power from oligarchs to everyday people of all colors. And that is a step by step process.”

    i think RatM says it best, of course.
    change my pitch up

  130. 130.

    Mnemosyne

    @Reality Check:

    The Arab Spring would have never happened without the Iraq War.

    The Apollo space program never would have happened without World War II, so therefore WWII was the best thing that ever happened!

    You are so smart.

  134. 134.

    Cat Lady

    @Reality Check:

    That’s ridiculous. Richard Engel, the Arabic speaking reporter who has been on the ground in Iraq since the beginning and in the ME all through the Arab spring, has emphatically denied that. He said that in fact the dictators used the chaos in Iraq as an example of what would happen if they were overthrown, and it worked until it didn’t. He said the Iraq war delayed the democracy movements, no question about it. I believe him before an idiot like you.

  139. 139.

    Mark S.

    I’m hardly one to talk since I sometimes feed the trolls, but Christ, Reality Check is too big of a fucking idiot to waste your time with.

  140. 140.

    Rihilism

    @Reality Check: HAHAHA! That’s freaking hysterical!

    Sorry, I call spoof, cause nobody could type something that absurd, that ridiculous, that demonstrably wrong and expect anyone to take it seriously. Overplayed your hand, I’m afraid…

  142. 142.

    Alex S.

    I’m supporting these protests, at the very least they’re a sign that people respond to the detachment of the elite.
    I just hope that they’ll be free of celebrity leftists. Michael Moore was already there… I sighed… I still expect Noam Chomsky or Al Sharpton and the like.

  143. 143.

    Dave

    WHAT, NO THIS IS NOT ALLOWED, THE NICE LIBERALS HAVE FORBIDDEN IT!!1! WHAT OF “MESSAGE”? WHAT OF HURT FEELINGS??

  144. 144.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Surreality Unchecked:

    I believe that they will be more successful than the Iraq protests because this issue affects more people directly, right where it counts. That is going to get their attention in ways that the Iraq protests didn’t.

    Three of those ways are jobs, economic theft by the powerful and in their own pocketbook.

    I’m hoping the protesters are able to serve you and yours a salted bag of dicks topped with a steaming pile of crow to chew on.

    You deserve it.

  150. 150.

    Corner Stone

    Does anyone think this will bring about whirled peas? Or the capture of Generalissimo Franco? Huh? Do they?
    Because if this one specific protest won’t solve climate change then what the fuck is their point? I can’t figure out their point! THEIR POINT!!

  152. 152.

    different-church-lady

    @Alex S.:

    I just hope that they’ll be free of celebrity leftists. Michael Moore was already there… I sighed… I still expect Noam Chomsky or Al Sharpton and the like

    Does this mean it’s already too late for you?

  155. 155.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Linnaeus:

    Via Chris Hayes, here’s an Occupy Wall Street FAQ.

    If all that really does speak for the protesters, then it’s it’s pretty clear that the whole damn thing is a Rorschach test.

  158. 158.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    The End Game? Mayor Bloomberg cries to Gov Cuomo who will call up the National guard, and Liberty Plaza will become Kent State mixed with Attica.

  160. 160.

    Reality Check

    Shorter Svensker:

    America First! Charles Lindber–I mean, Michael Moore is right!

    Anyway, how’s that stimulus workin’ out for ya?

  163. 163.

    burnspbesq

    @OzoneR:

    The goal should be to change public policy so it never happens again.

    Agreed. And the SEC and CFTC, which have rule-making authority in addition to enforcement authority, have a major role to play. That’s why I said the other day that these protests should be taking place at First and F, Northeast instead of on Wall Street. If you want somebody to do something, get in their face.

  165. 165.

    Linda Featheringill

    @Corner Stone:
    #150

    Does anyone think this will bring about whirled peas?

    At its best, this movement is probably the opening shot of a class war that has to be fought or we’ll all sink back into feudalism. Or 19th Century England, which wasn’t much better.

  166. 166.

    brendancalling

    i have very much enjoyed the objections of many blogs and commenters that this means nothing.

    It makes me think of that old song… “something is happening here but you don’t know what it is
    do you, Mr. Jones?”

  167. 167.

    different-church-lady

    @Sentient Puddle:

    If all that really does speak for the protesters, then it’s it’s pretty clear that the whole damn thing is a Rorschach test Velcro ball.

    I think I’m starting to get it now: the whole thing was something of a lark from the get-go. They just kinda said, “Hey, let’s see what happens if we lay down some Velcro.” And now some interesting things are starting to get stuck to it. That kinda thing probably works once in a hundred, but I ain’t complaining.

    Another thought: if this thing catches on we’re about 3 weeks away from the “original” occupiers complaining about how the whole thing got coopted and corrupted by the “establishment left”.

  170. 170.

    Reality Check

    Or how about those liberal protests that got Gene McCarthy nominated in ’68? Or those protests that stopped the First Gulf War? Ok, um, those protests that got Gore to steal the el–er, I mean elected President? Uh…..wait a minute….ok I’m trying to think of ONE successful leftist protest ever. Hmmm…

  171. 171.

    beltane

    @jwb: That’s because Reality Check is the acne of political prognostication.

    No offense, RC. You are my favorite troll.

  173. 173.

    OzoneR

    @burnspbesq:

    That’s why I said the other day that these protests should be taking place at First and F, Northeast instead of on Wall Street. If you want somebody to do something, get in their face.

    it should be taking place in front of Bank of America branches all over the country.

  175. 175.

    Reality Check

    “A few million jobs?”

    Bwahaahahahahah! Good luck running on that next year, d00d. Because it’s pure fantasy nobody except leftist numbskulls like you believe.

  177. 177.

    Origuy

    Tomorrow in San Francisco will be interesting; it’s Critical Mass Friday. I wonder if the Occupy Wall Street protesters will join up with the CM cyclists?

  178. 178.

    Liberty60

    I am going to the Occupy Los Angeles rally tomorrow to check it out;

    As others hav e pointed out, the goal is to force the issue to the mainstream, where the VSPs are forced to talk about it how Wall Street is raping us all.

    After the protests, after the national mood is changed to direct anger at Wall Street, then we can discuss specifics. But right now, we just need to get people to see who their enemies are and who got us here.

  180. 180.

    Reality Check

    @Different Church Lady

    I wouldn’t chalk up the USSR and World Communist Revolution as a “success”. But thanks for being honest about what “progressivism” leads to.

  181. 181.

    different-church-lady

    @OzoneR:

    it should be taking place in front of Bank of America branches all over the country.

    They just announced $5 per month fees for using your debit card, so it might not be long now.

  182. 182.

    jeff

    The great thing about horrible job losses, insane inequality, and police brutality is the protests they engender. /snark

  183. 183.

    Liberty60

    posted this on my FB page:

    O that we had politicians who could speak like this-

    “Corporate cunning has developed faster than the laws of nation and state. Sooner or later unless there is a readjustment, there will come a riotous, wicked, murderous day of atonement.”

    President Theodore Roosevelt, 1903

  185. 185.

    El Cid

    Fucking firebagger hippie unions who in no way asked me how to correctly run a protest which would appeal to middle America which I totally would have launched a better one a while back if I’d gotten around to it.

  186. 186.

    OzoneR

    @different-church-lady:

    They just announced $5 per month fees for using your debit card, so it might not be long now.

    Well it’s all because the mean old government is forcing them to adhere to regulations and taxes.

    How many working class schulbs will believe that?

  188. 188.

    slag

    @Alternative Reality Check: http://www.factcheck.org/2010/09/did-the-stimulus-create-jobs/ . If you want to live in your own reality, that’s fine. But why do you then waste so much time here in the real world? You’re torn, aren’t you? You recognize there’s something outside of your world, but you’re afraid. You keep peeking in thinking thinking thinking that one day the real world will welcome you. Accept you for who you are and thus allow you to bring alternate reality with you when you join it. But I’m afraid that won’t work, child. You have to choose. Alternate reality or reality. You can’t have both.

  191. 191.

    Reality Check

    You mean that Civil Rights Bill that passed only with massive Republican support? Fun fact: a majority of House and Senate Democrats voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Bill.

  192. 192.

    Linnaeus

    @Liberty60:

    “Corporate cunning has developed faster than the laws of nation and state. Sooner or later unless there is a readjustment, there will come a riotous, wicked, murderous day of atonement.”
    …
    President Theodore Roosevelt, 1903

    Obviously, TR was a communist traitor.

  193. 193.

    beltane

    @different-church-lady: There is a lot of free-floating anger in the country right now, as can be expected in an economy like this. Last year at my son’s holiday concert the music director said “Just think, all it would take for us to get real seats in this auditorium would be one little bit of one banker’s bonus”, and the whole crowd erupted in loud applause. The crowd was mostly loggers, farmers, and assorted blue-collar types-not the expected DFHs-but it’s the basic injustice of it all that brought out the applause.

  194. 194.

    Baud

    @Liberty60:

    Sooner or later unless there is a readjustment, there will come a riotous, wicked, murderous day of atonement.

    Problem is today he would be criticized for suggesting that the revolution could happen “later,” and his call for “readjustment” would be seen as an overture to compromise.

  196. 196.

    Corner Stone

    @Linda Featheringill:

    At its best, this movement is probably the opening shot of a class war that has to be fought or we’ll all sink back into feudalism.

    That’s bullshit. Why aren’t they protesting at the corner of F and arglebargle ? THAT’s where the REAL impact will be made!

  199. 199.

    Lawnguylander

    I went to the protest on Saturday and got a lot of suspicious looks because I look like a cop or a Wall Streeter. My likes are way outnumbered by much scruffier looking types, no doubt. I’m going again tomorrow after a meeting I have downtown. I agree that it all seems a little incoherent and messy and some of the kids who did talk to me said they wished there was a message everyone could agree on but I figure that showing up is a good start. It seems kind of cold hearted to criticize them as long as they’re not getting up to anything really stupid. Banging drums and that sort of thing doesn’t fit my definition of really stupid.

  200. 200.

    Svensker

    @jwb:

    Reality Check makes Bill Kristol seem like the acme acne of political prognostication.

    More like the pimple on the butt…

    Aaaaaand scooped by Beltane.

  202. 202.

    OzoneR

    @Reality Check:

    You mean that Civil Rights Bill that passed only with massive Republican support? Fun fact: a majority of House and Senate Democrats voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Bill.

    you said LEFT movement, you didn’t say DEMOCRATIC movement, and no, a majority of Democrats did not vote against the bill, the majority of both parties voted FOR it.

    You think all Democrats were left wing in 1964? You think all Republicans were right wing?

    Reality Check meet New York Senator Jacob Javitz, California Senator Thomas Kuchel,

  203. 203.

    beltane

    @OzoneR: The working class schlubs do believe the banks are out to get them. They also tend to believe some rather ugly, CTish stuff about the banking industry that could easily be exploited by very nasty and hateful people.

  205. 205.

    Alex S.

    @different-church-lady:

    Small nitpick: The October Revolution was more a coup than a protest. The February Revolution however was two weeks of labor protests and military strikes, and led to a few months of democracy. In the same vein, one could mention the November Revolution of Germany in 1918 and the revolutions in Austria and the Ottoman Empire. Another leftist protest: the Boston Tea Party.

    And about Cornel West, hmm, that’s borderline. I don’t know how well he is known among the Fox News crowd. But at least he’s not an attention magnet like Michael Moore.

  207. 207.

    geg6

    Glad to see some real organizational skills showing up. This bodes well for the whole endeavor. I hereby offer my mea culpa and, as promised, jump on the bandwagon. But they’ve gotta do better than Michael Moore and Cornell West for spokesmodels.

  208. 208.

    Liberty60

    @Reality Check:

    Uh…..wait a minute….ok I’m trying to think of ONE successful leftist protest ever. Hmmm…

    Civil Rights
    Gay Rights
    Women’s Rights
    Vietnam War
    8 Hour workday
    Minimum Wage
    Worker Safety
    Consumer protections
    Redress for victims of such things as Manzanar, Native American injustices
    Farmworker rights

    The Left fought for and won all these things and more besides.

    I bet money that each and every day you enjoy benefits and protections that the Left fought for.

  210. 210.

    Linnaeus

    @Baud:

    Problem is today he would be criticized for suggesting that the revolution could happen “later,” and his call for “readjustment” would be seen as an overture to compromise.

    Maybe by a few people; he’d get far more criticism for even suggesting a readjustment at all.

  213. 213.

    James

    Just a reminder… a lot of these kids who’ve been holding the line since day are in debt, poor or homeless. It’s also getting colder, so any donations of warm socks, blankets or even the odd winter coat would be appreciated.

    October 15th is the day this goes fully national as well, try and find out about one in your area.

  215. 215.

    Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water

    @Reality Check: For someone calling themselves “reality check”, you seem to have a fairly tenuous grip on reality. This all comes from some bs brewed up by Randall Hoven, serial liar and general nutcase. In his ‘analysis’, the cost of the stimulus includes all the projected costs to 2019, whereas the cost of the Iraq war only goes up to 2010, and doesn’t include any of the costs related to ongoing health and disability costs for the Iraq veterans that will occur over decades

  217. 217.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    @Reality Check: You neglected to note that the votes you discuss came from the Confederate Party, formerly a rump of the Democrats, now wholly in charge of the Republicans.

    Jeez, read some history dude.

  220. 220.

    schrodinger's cat

    BTW for those who are interested. Sullivan is mocking the protesters instead of turning his blog green. I guess you have to be Iranian to garner his sympathy.

  221. 221.

    Corner Stone

    @El Cid:

    @OzoneR: You can’t be so dimwitted as to have considered that a serious statement. I hope.

    Sir, empirical evidence gathered to this point begs to differ.

  223. 223.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Liberty60:

    The Left fought for and won all these things and more besides.

    Unions did. The NAACP, and its Legal Defense Fund did. Lambda Legal Services did. The churches helped. Ethnic organziations like the Arbeiter Ring did. The Democratic Party — or parts of it anyways, did. Lots of organizations. Institutions. Even political parties.

    A diffuse, Brownian-motion, ‘Left’ didn’t.

  224. 224.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    .
    .
    Aren’t we worried that this could lead to increased bony-ass Jane Hamsher/wild-eyed firebagger/racist progressive influence in American society?
    .
    .

  226. 226.

    El Cid

    Vote for the House and Senate versions of the Civil Rights Act of 1964:

    The original House version:[12]
    __
    Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
    Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
    __
    Cloture in the Senate:[13]
    __
    Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%–34%)
    Republican Party: 27-6 (82%–18%)
    __
    The Senate version:[12]
    __
    Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%–31%)
    Republican Party: 27-6 (82%–18%)
    __
    The Senate version, voted on by the House:[12]
    __
    Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%–37%)
    Republican Party: 136-35 (80%–20%)
    __
    By party and region
    __
    Note: “Southern”, as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. “Northern” refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
    __
    The original House version:
    _
    Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7%–93%)
    Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0%–100%)
    __
    Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%–6%)
    Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%–15%)
    __
    The Senate version:
    __
    Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5%–95%)
    Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0%–100%)
    Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%–2%)
    Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%–16%)

    So, what it means when one says that the “vast majority” of Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act means 96 Democrats voted against the original House version and 152 for it, and 91 against and 151 for on the actual Senate version.

    And the “vast majority” of Senate Democrats voting against means 21 against and 46 for.

    I know I’m getting older, but I remember the days back when 46 was bigger than 21, and 152 was bigger than 91. But by God if Glenn Beck and co. told me that the “vast majority” of Congressional Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act, it has to be true.

    Voting records is hard. If only there were fancy time machines which would allow us to know what happened in the ancient times like the 1960s of which no records remain.

  228. 228.

    danimal

    @Samara Morgan: I’ll bite…WTF is the ‘freed market theory’?

    You are the Sarah Palin of the BJ commentariat, making up your own language on the fly. I’ll let you in on a secret; your gibberish is incomprehensible.

    Gotta go now….

    Cudlip Power!

  229. 229.

    magurakurin

    just a reminder to everyone. Ignore RC he is just a douche bag who gets his jollies from trolling blogs, torturing frogs, blowing fart bubbles, and watching his teenage neighbor girl take showers.

    And why does the Occupy Wall Street protest need an “end game?” Maybe they are just “mad as hell and won’t take it anymore” kinda folks. Maybe they figure nothing will come of it but so what, they still are going to let their feelings be known. Anything that gets people thinking about what dicks the Banks are seems useful to me.

    Oh and to help build that case the banksters just offered a little help. BofA to now charge $5 to use a debit card. Dicks.

  231. 231.

    different-church-lady

    @El Cid:

    But by God if Glenn Beck and co. told me that the “vast majority” of Congressional Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act, it has to be true.

    I bet he was thinking of the Civil Right Act of 1871. Dude has probably blotted the entire 1960’s out of his mind.

  232. 232.

    El Cid

    @Davis X. Machina: As a Brownian-motion leftist, I would say that I’m highly offended by your comment, but I’m afraid that by the point I wished to say that, I would have been knocked from my position by many vastly smaller and thus invisible Brownian leftists.

  233. 233.

    James

    @Davis X. Machina:

    This is spot-on. This is about the 99% of us getting fucked over so some hedge fund manager can rail coke off silicone tits.

    We really have to shed this ‘left/right’ false dichotomy the corporate media has staked it’s flag on. A guns and bible American has just as much place here as a granola and sandals American.

  234. 234.

    El Cid

    @different-church-lady: Why would anyone want to know much of any of the corrupted history we experienced after the noble struggle against federal oppression which was lost in 1865? I mean, other than the Redemption of the truly patriotic Southern part of the country from liberal tyranny by 1898.

  235. 235.

    PIGL

    @Lawnguylander:

    showing up is a good start

    That it would be. In fact, they already showed up. Now more and more of us are joining them. I can not be there, so I hope you will consider standing there for me as well. All I can do is send some money, which I am going to do right now.

  237. 237.

    different-church-lady

    @James:

    We really have to shed this ‘left/right’ false dichotomy the corporate media has staked it’s flag on.

    Yeah? Well when we stop having party line votes over things like the CFPB then I’ll start a’shedding.

  238. 238.

    birthmarker

    @different-church-lady: Credit unions, people. If you are able to join one do so…

    The thing that kills me about trolls is they are always so effing misinformed. One third of the stimulus went directly to tax cuts. Which, gee, didn’t create any jobs! The solar thing is debunked. Leftist protests? How do you think labor unions got started in the first place?

    If you are just repeating Republican talking points you really won’t do that well here.

  240. 240.

    Arundel

    Symbolism matters, despite the asking what are they trying to accomplish? Which is a reasonable question. But there really is a power in symbolism and imagery, as a culture we are drowned in visual imagery and symbolism. This one, this particular act of symbolic protest, has potential- it is a presence that reminds Wall Street elites, and the media, that the potential for unrest as in Europe could happen here, there’s only so far people can be pushed. And believe it or not, I doubt the average Fox viewer has that much sympathy towards fat cats, if you actually asked them.

    And again, in New York symbolism and imagery rules- it’s a mistake to underestimate the power of it. They don’t have to have a concrete goal or a spreadsheet of objectives. Their mere presence, the symbolic tumbrils , the unrest that will indeed happen if things continue on this path- well this is early days. Symbolism is powerful, I find some of the criticism from our side intensely literal-minded. Picasso’s “Guernica” was just oil paint on linen, right?

    Saying it but not saying it: the unrest in Europe over economic issues could easily tip over here, where we have a decimated middle class and a destroyed working class. Things shall get much worse, and I do have the feeling that if something isn’t done, there will be unrest that will make the 1960’s look like nothing in comparison. I don’t see how our corporate and financial masters, who have completely succeeded in fucking us all and firing everyone- well there will be blowback, and it will be ugly. We won’t be any sort of nation anymore, when the vast majority are broke and desperate with ready gun access.

    I consider Occupy Wall Street a relatively benign and peaceful start of something- that we come in peace, but this disgraceful wreckage of the economy that affects all of us must be addressed. Symbolism matters. Pilots and unions joining in is encouraging. We’re the ones shut out of our own fates by the plundering that’s gone on. Yes, it’s just symbolism, but it’s a demand that the media and the bankers pay fucking notice to the people whose lives they’re affecting, badly. Which is all of us, the rest of us. Won’t knock that.

  241. 241.

    James

    @different-church-lady:

    You’re honestly voting for a Goldman Sachs approved, pro-corporate meat puppet in both cases most of the time. There are outliers you may have something in common with, but most could buy and sell you several times over with their pac money alone. Is there anyone in Congress or the Senate who’s personal net worth isn’t over two million anymore?

    You won’t find a single person in that group willing to talk to you personally. They’ll gleefully take your money though.

    Find the commonality in people you work with, attend church with, see at the PTA or know from the check-out line at the supermarket. Don’t diminish them by slapping on a label because it’s easier.

    You won’t find a person in those place who doesn’t think Wall Street is fucking us all over with those in DC absolutely complicit in the looting. The manufactured ‘left/right’ divide is how they divide and conquer. The only party that matters right now is the one in the streets.

  243. 243.

    joeshabadoo

    @Davis X. Machina:

    The Stewart/Colbert thing was an entertainment event. It was created and headlined by comedians and had big musical acts like Ozzy. People by and large went to have fun.

    It’s like complaining that more people went to the Super Bowl than the Wallstreet protest.

  244. 244.

    different-church-lady

    @James: OK. So… what about those party line vote thingies I mentioned? You know, the ones where one group of exactly-the-same-as-the-other-group-according-to-you vote for something good and the other group of exactly-the-same-as-the-other-group-according-to-you vote against it?

    Or is it merely that Goldman Sachs approves things in a kind of bipolar way?

  245. 245.

    piratedan

    @OzoneR: or the fact that we now have things like labor laws all due to the workers agitating from the 1890’s thru the 1920’s. Or the Suffragette movement. This asshat RC probably thinks that the Bill of Rights is a Conservative document.

  246. 246.

    different-church-lady

    @joeshabadoo:

    The Stewart/Colbert thing was an entertainment event. It was created and headlined by comedians…

    …who have well-established daily television shows.

    If OWS had a half hour on Comedy Central five days a week there’d be hella more people down there right now.

  250. 250.

    wilfred

    “The only party that matters right now is the one in the streets.”

    Well said.

    “And believe it or not, I doubt the average Fox viewer has that much sympathy towards fat cats, if you actually asked them.”

    Thus praxis.

    Class struggle is the unifying force that is emerging here, not liberalism or conservatism. Capitalism has failed the ever growing numbers of poor and unemployed. Attempts to stifle the protests were made in the belief that the political economy of the country can somehow be restored if only this or that were done, by either of the established political parties. Keep dreaming.

    In any protest, you either stand in front of the police or behind the police.

  251. 251.

    jaywillie

    As someone who has criticism for OWS, I think this is very good. The unions, of course, have been protesting across the Rust Belt for the last year. Gaining allies like this will help gain credibility with the broader left, something that’s just not going to happen with groups like Anonymous.

  255. 255.

    catclub

    @different-church-lady: I keep posting this and nobody appears to notice.
    Kasasa checking at some credit unions is paying 3- 3.5% interest on checking accounts up to $25k ( only 0.75% interest above that) for accounts that qualify.

    Money market funds are presently paying 0.01%
    The difference on $25k for a year? $750

  256. 256.

    guest

    More images like this will make even more Americans aware of Wall Street predation.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/29/1021400/-Wall-Street-executives-watch-protests-while-drinking-champagne-from-balconies-(literally)?via=blog_1

    It is fascinating that when a few people took to the streets in places like Bahrain and Yemen, everyone from Kristof to Friedman, were writing about it. But now that the people are out in New York, they are mum.

    #Neoconservative Liberals

  257. 257.

    delphi_ote

    http://www.thenation.com/article/163719/occupy-wall-street-faq

    But also under discussion are a variety of other issues, ranging from ending the death penalty, to dismantling the military-industrial complex, to affordable healthcare, to more welcoming immigration policies. And more. It can be confusing, but then again these issues are all at some level interconnected.

    On Tuesday, over 700 uniformed pilots, members of the Air Line Pilots Association, took to the streets outside of Wall Street demanding better pay.

    God fucking damn it. “Come on down, everyone! Protest WHATEVER!” Where’s PETA? Why not? ALF? Come on in! NAMBLA? Let freedom ring! Let’s all get together and just yell about whatever until we all get too tired and go home.

  258. 258.

    different-church-lady

    @delphi_ote:

    But also under discussion are a variety of other issues, ranging from ending the death penalty, to dismantling the military-industrial complex, to affordable healthcare, to more welcoming immigration policies.

    Jesus… the puppets are gonna show up any second now…

    I mean… can NOBODY figure out the benefits of just somehow, even tangentially, even thinly, keeping it focused things that Wall Street has an actual influence on? Do we have to do the Fibber McGee’s Closet thing every ‘effin time?

    I swear there’s gotta be a link between ADHD and liberal activism.

  259. 259.

    Valenciennes

    After following this for a few days I feel confident in proffering that the process of OWS is as important as any of their stated goals. The manner in which they’re organizing and interacting on the ground is stunning.

    This isn’t just a fuck you to Wall Street, it’s an attempt to provide a platform for an actual conversation about the ways in which our system is broken. It’s an attempt to galvanize a lot of people who would otherwise feel isolated. It’s unbelievably ambitious in a way that’s really hard to understand at a glance.

    We’ve all been screwed in various ways. What’s so wrong with taking the time to discuss them?

  260. 260.

    Valenciennes

    @different-church-lady: The “original” occupiers actually bowed out of their higher-level planning duties before the protest even began. The beauty of it is that everyone who’s involved is genuinely treated like an important part of the group, and everyone who wants a say has one.

    They’ve been incredibly good at policing/persuading loose cannons so far.

  261. 261.

    James

    @Valenciennes:

    Others have also gotta consider these kids have been out there for almost 300 hours. As awesome as chanting ‘Smash the Bull’ is, after about hour six you want to start having real conversations with people.

  263. 263.

    Davis X. Machina

    @guest:

    More images like this will make even more Americans aware of Wall Street predation.

    How many Americans are actually unaware of Wall Street predation? Is lack of awareness an issue? It’s certainly not the issue.

  264. 264.

    harlana

    @ABL: “I, for one, have never been more pleased to have my cynicism proven wrong.” — I respect you guys a lot, but if these folks had listened to the sage advice of most of the posters on this blog, this would not be happening right now. I’m so glad they are following with their heart and using their heads with the Twitter and the texting and the new-fangled thingies that young people use. ABL, you are a passionate person so I know you understand, here is passion doing God’s work in the streets. Fight the good fight for the long term! God bless.

  265. 265.

    harlana

    Of course, as everyone here knows, anti-Iraq war protests did not catch fire and were not mentioned by the media, i had to see them on CSPAN to know they even existed. I kept thinking they meant something – many bloggers and commenters here have been telling me that it don’t mean a thing and never has, so I’m so glad to know this is catching on.

    The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.

  266. 266.

    harlana

    telling people to shut up and sit down is really no different from letting republicans control the narrative, imho

  267. 267.

    Barry

    Apologies for rehashing this, if it’s been covered; I’m skipping the 200-odd posts:

    At this point I want to see apologies from every ‘Centrist’ bootlicking coward who hippy-bashed these guys.

  269. 269.

    Samara Morgan

    @harlana:

    anti-Iraq war protests did not catch fire

    just not here. every Friday since February there have been anti-American, anti-Maliki protests in Iraq.
    Our media just doesnt cover them.

  270. 270.

    Samara Morgan

    @Barry:

    At this point I want to see apologies from every ‘Centrist’ bootlicking coward who hippy-bashed these guys

    Does that mean Cole?
    Don’t hold your breath.
    I’m still waiting for the apolo on Op Odessey Dawn (Libya) and the apolo for inflicting the horror of his glibertarian rent boiz on BJ.

  271. 271.

    Samara Morgan

    @Arundel: G.B. was a flash mob of nativists and the eDL– more akin to the teabagger rallies in the US.
    occupywallstreet has defined goals, and its part of anonops, that gave us OpBart and is going to give us OpFacebook next month.
    Heres our goals.

    OccupyWallSt Occupy Wall Street
    Official twitter of our site! News and information about the occupation of Wall Street on September 17th. Anyone that’s fed up with Wall Street should come!
    Following
    anonesc esc
    Sailing for lulz, supporting #Anonymous Operations and #AntiSec. Fight the future! The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world!
    Following
    anonops_live Viral Revolution
    Take the web, take the street! #antisec
    Following
    YourAnonNews Anonymous
    We are Anonymous, We are legion, We never forgive, We never forget, Expect us.
    Following
    OccupyWallStNYC #OCCUPYWALLSTREET
    Occupy Wall Street on September 17th. Donate to us @ our bitcoin address: 1Q7DQVTubbUqr5by2YoZJRKCEzj9D3LQ9w

    c’mon, even Cole uses the twitter machine.
    welcome to the 21st century.

  273. 273.

    handsmile

    @harlana: (#264-266)

    Bulls’ eye, every one!

    Way up-thread, the commenter doofus (#44) termed this the “mea culpa thread.” Perhaps for some, but throughout appear the same bleats of willful obtuseness, smug dismissal, and suspect assurances that support for the protest would be forthcoming if only certain things would be done or not done. A chorus of condescension that stuck to its hymn book regardless of numerous links to other websites, featuring articles, videos and photofiles that could have disabused their convictions.

    Singfoom alone deserves great credit and much respect for his diligent efforts in challenging and refuting these tropes over several days.

    I myself have been greatly disheartened by what this event has revealed about the reflexive assumptions, credulousness and obstinacy of quite a few longtime and frequent commenters on this blog. Hereafter, their remarks about politics and advocacy will be evaluated with this lesson.

  274. 274.

    Nathanael

    @cathyx: This is indeed the key point.

    OccupyWallStreet may collapse. If it does, however, it will only result in some other, even larger form of protest, because there are an awful lot of unemployed people with little or nothing to lose — and the people in power seem intent on increasing that number.

  275. 275.

    Nathanael

    @different-church-lady: The military-industrial complex is now propped up by the financiers, healthcare is entirely controlled by the financiers, immigration policy is tightly linked to large corporate abuses in corporations run by financiers…

    It’s surprising how many things tie back to the misbehavior of banking elites.

  276. 276.

    Nathanael

    FYI, for those complaining about lack of a coherent platform… look up the “indignados” in Spain. Apparently a coherent platform is not necessary in order to become a huge, powerful force.

  277. 277.

    Nathanael

    @OzoneR: Actually, most of what the Wall Street execs did *was* illegal (Yves Smith has been on top of this for several years).

    The tricky bit is that they arranged the laws so that the standard of proof is absurdly high when you’re trying to convict executives of crimes — crimes such as fraud which would land any ordinary person in prison very quickly. And so that it’s very hard to find a court with jurisdiction. And so that it’s very hard to get “standing” to sue, let alone to charge the criminals.

    They subverted the *legal process*, not the actual list of what’s illegal and what isn’t. They’ve damaged the rule of law itself.

  280. 280.

    Samara Morgan

    @Donut:

    You’d almost think some of the professed ignorance was willful. Almost.

    nah, its just because most people have me pied. i’ve been reporting on OpBart and occupywallstreet for the last two months or so.
    :)

  281. 281.

    singfoom

    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

    As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

    They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
    They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
    They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
    They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
    They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
    They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
    They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
    They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
    They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
    They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
    They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
    They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
    They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
    They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
    They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
    They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
    They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
    They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
    They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
    They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
    They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

    To the people of the world,
    We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

    Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

    To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

    Join us and make your voices heard!

    *These grievances are not all-inclusive.

    http://nycga.cc/

    So that’s the latest release from the GA of OccupyWallStreet. Does it ask for specific legislation, no. Obviously, all of the points are directed towards the bad behavior of the corporate form and/or corporate corruption of our political system.

    It’s a good start. I’ve read elsewhere of lists of their desires, rather than their dislikes, and the things that stick out to me are:

    Reinstatement of Glass-Steagall
    Public Campaign financing

    I don’t know what effect this movement will have on our political process, but if it gains us any movement towards either of those two things, I’m all for it.

    If you support them, show it!
    Get out there and join your local protest, locate at http://occupytogether.org/
    http://nycga.cc/donate/

    ETA: I can haz blockquotes around multi-line? No, evidently not.

Comments are closed.