According to the NY Times, Steve Jobs has died. I know that any time Apple or Microsoft is mentioned, it turns into a flame war, but I’ve never understood why. I’ve always been bi- right now I have a PC dekstop, an Apple laptop, and I use both for different things for different reasons.
It’s kind of sad, really, aside from the fact that he was so young. I’ve been using Apple products as long as I can remember. I grew up on a college campus, so the first computers I used were teletypes with ticker tape, then I moved to the Pr!me mainframes where I learned Fortran and Cobol and spent way too much time playing SSTREK and New Adventure (Plugh! XYZZY!), and then the Apple computers. I wish I had a dollar for every hour I spent as a kid playing loderunner or wolfenstein or logging on to a BBS to download crap back in the 80’s, making sure the phone was rested just right in the modem cradle.
I’ve never had a more dependable laptop in my life, the ipod revolutionized portable music and no one will ever listen to music the same way as before, the iphone took over the world, and I don’t know if you have been paying attention or not, but everyone is jumping through their ass to try and come up with something as functional as the ipad.
That isn’t a bad legacy.
cathyx
My only complaint about Apple products is they can’t keep accurate time.
gbear
I’m still listening to music the same way I did before. Ipods aren’t essential.
Comrade Luke
Watching the Stanford commencement speech now. Pertinent as ever.
http://youtu.be/D1R-jKKp3NA
cathyx
@gbear: All holdouts come around eventually.
lamh34
I just read this.
Damn! RIP Steve Jobs.
I luv my IPOD and my IPHONE (soon maybe the IPAD). I can honestly say it has expanded my musical taste and library.
I guess I’m bi-…too. I use a laptop at home and I also have a desktop PC, but my phone and my music player are Apple
dmsilev
You forgot Pixar and NeXT.
Truly an amazing life, and he’ll be missed.
khead
Never owned an Apple or Mac or Iwhatever…
… but I can “reck-a-nize”.
RIP Steve
BGinCHI
A sobering reminder that when you get a disease, even if you have the means to fight it, your body is still a vulnerable thing.
At least he made the world a better place, technologically speaking.
I’d only add that Windows blows donkey dicks as a way to pour one out for my homey.
JPL
I do not own an Apple product and I already miss Jobs. He made other manufacturers do it better in order to compete. He worked until six plus weeks ago and that was the way he wanted it.
Southern Beale
Just heard the news … shocking …
* typed on my MacBook, thank you Steve Jobs ….
khead
Pancreatic cancer = undefeated
cathyx
This site is advertising apple products today for me.
jheartney
When he resigned I figured he wouldn’t make it to the new year. I would have loved to have been wrong. Damn.
Apple has pretty much defined my work life from the late 80’s on. Can’t imagine what sort of life I would have had if Jobs hadn’t been doing his thing. Probably came closer to being a Randian ubermensch than any other actual person.
Southern Beale
Someone on Twitter mentioned that Patrick Swayze was also 56 when he died of pancreatic cancer.
And the husband reminds me that Jobs’ liver transplant took place in Tennessee and was highly controversial. The speculation was that he had basically bought his liver, he wasn’t on the national waiting list … he used his influence and money to jump ahead of a bunch of people and shoot, Tennessee is the place to do that.
I don’t know the whole story there, but there are a lot of lessons to be learned here.
PeakVT
RIP Steve.
ETA ETAd: See cathyx.
cathyx
I think we need more Steve Jobs posts. 3 isn’t enough.
Evinfuilt
I wouldn’t haver the career I do if it wasn’t for Jobs. Growing up with Apple II and then macs. I learned to program on a mac and now develop for iDevices and web on my macs.
So today I lose my idol, even if he wasn’t the techie, he made the company.
Arclite
Apple under Jobs has been the most important technology trendsetter over the past decade, and this coming from an IT worker who owns no Apple products. While I hate their proprietary nature and total control, you can’t deny the ease of use and utility of their products. All devices are compared to Apples: ipods, ipads, iphones, itunes, cinemadisplay, etc. etc.
RIP, Mr. Jobs. You’ve made the first world a more interesting and convenient place.
Judas Escargot
I suspect (for no real logical reason) that we will all remember this particular week or so for a long time to come.
Check out boingboing, also, too. Nicely Done.
Trinity
RIP Steve Jobs…but the police have started pepper spraying and arresting OccupyWallStreet protesters.
Twitter is surreal right now.
General Stuck
Jeebus, me neither. But I am old school on tech stuff, though even a neanderthal on such matters as myself, still does realize Mr. Jobs was a historical force on the US and world and his presence will be missed, unlike the haughty cheap thrill of starbursts and if they will run for president further insulting injury to our collective neural net, the possibility of which, reminds me yet again, of why I now despise John Mccain, when I didn’t used to.
RIP Mr. Jobs, and condolences to his family, especially the four children he left behind. Cancer is a cruel killer, and the pancreatic kind takes few prisoners.
MikeJ
I hacked on a NeXT pizza box back in the day. It was pretty sweet. Still liked my SGI better, but for something that sat on top of the desk rather than being the size of the desk, the NeXT was ok.
eemom
@PeakVT:
not technically, but nonetheless it is a fitting tribute.
R.I.P.
Jenny
@cathyx: well, we do need more jobs.
eemom
@Evinfuilt:
I am pretty much a techtard and type on whatever is put in front of me, but my husband shares your opinion, which is why I’m typing on a Mac. He says Jobs was a visionary.
Odie Hugh Manatee
It was really something to be connecting your computer with a modem to the phone line to access data. I can still remember my friends asking what was so special about it, that it seemed boring and nerdy to them. I had fun playing on CompuServe’s PlayNet, one of the earliest online game systems, in the mid-80’s.
My only problem with Apple is that they have always seemed like Microsoft on steroids as far as controlling everything. Locking down their OS to specific hardware and such just seems wrong to me. I like the idea of building my own pc to suit my requirements and there is no denying that it’s cheaper to do so. That and it’s more fun! Buying a one-size-fits-all pc, whether it’s a low end, mid-range or high end unit, can still leave much to be desired due to the limitations of what a manufacturer will offer for that line. I know building a pc is not an option, nor is it necessary, for everyone. Manufactured systems have their place, as Apple, Dell and others have clearly shown.
Apple has a place and the people who like their products have good reason to, but they’re just not my cup of tea. I run my webservers on Linux and use Windoze for most everything else.
Call me an elitist nerd.
And Another Thing...
It feels like when Disney died…weavers of incredible magic. Jobs was too damn young to go.
Mnemosyne
@Southern Beale:
IIRC, he didn’t jump the line so much as game the system, which is much more regional than people realize. He figured out which area of the country would be most likely to have a supply of livers (I think it was Tennessee) and established residency there so he could get on the list. Organs are not very transportable, so your ability to get a transplant depends heavily on where you live, as does which organs are available (one area may have a lot of kidneys available but not many livers, or vice versa).
He “bought” it in the sense that not everyone can afford to move to another state where the organ they need is in more plentiful supply and live there long enough to establish residency, but there wasn’t any kind of bribery involved.
Comrade Luke
RIP Steve. And thanks for bumping Sarah Palin from the headlines.
lamh34
I don’t know how much input Jobs had in the advertisements for IPod, but not only did IPod change the way we listen to music, but damn if those IPod commercials are pop culture history…
One of my favorites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CPab8U5zTU
It is literally the reason why I bought this single from Jet. And I’m glad for it.
PurpleGirl
One comment and I won’t answer any comments back to me. I finally came to see PC/wintel machines vs. Apple as a religion thing and then stopped talking computers with one friend completely. He (and his wife) were always trying to convince me that Apple computers were better than PCs and that I was stupid if I didn’t see that. I maintained that it was partially based on what you first used and were used to using. I have used Macs at work for graphics stuff. I took two classes on software using Macs.
Jenny
@And Another Thing…:
Hopefully, they won’t freeze Jobs. Nothing worst than a job freeze.
Southern Beale
Sarah Palin announces she’s not running for president, either.
Shocker. No, not really.
Stuck with Mitt Romney, Republican voters head to the bars en masse.
RSA
I first got turned on to Apple using a Macintosh IIfx with a MicroExplorer board that turned it into a Lisp machine. I bought a Mac Plus, my first computer ever, and I’ve stuck with Macs (on and off) ever since. Apple changed the end-user computer industry. It was largely due to Jobs’s vision, I think.
Southern Beale
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks for clarifying. I wasn’t really up on that story.
The fact that we even have a system that can be gamed in this way is just immoral.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Here’s a vintage Jobs video.
Slownomad
Steve made a lot of money thanks to Microsoft and Microsoft made a lot of money thanks to Steve Jobs. There is no joy in Microsoft-land today at his demise. The hater thing has always been about evangelicalism more than anything else. The 2 companies worked together well and, in other areas, were the best of enemies. Much respect to Steve Jobs and all he accomplished. As an old Mac-Head I know the company will never be the same without him and we all lose for that, including his competitors.
AnnaN
Too young. This is saddening.
PhoenixRising
My wife fell into the ownership of a small magazine in fall 1984, the way salespeople sometimes got to owning things back then: The publisher had put his 80% of the cash she had collected for advertising up his nose. He couldn’t pay the printer. Threw her the keys and drove away in his Alfa Spyder.
She called the printer, the only broadsheet press in that part of the Northwest that printed small jobs, and they laughed at her when she said she was the new publisher. They refused to set up credit for her, an unproven 20-something girl, despite the fact that she had the ad customers on contract.
So she called the first customer on the list, to start the painful work of informing them that they were not going to get the ads they bought from her. She had filled the magazine for the upcoming computer tech show. First customer on the list was…Apple. The dealer said, Come on over here and let me show you what I’ve got.
It was the Apple IIe.
She laid out the editorial (stories) and the ads herself on that thing, in 57 hours of work, and ran out the magazine on 11×17 paper. My SIL, who was 14, made more money than she had ever had at once, by getting 5 friends to come in and fold and staple the books. Everyone who worked at the magazine part-time kept their jobs and my wife went back to college on the money that little rag made her.
I’m typing this on the MacBook Pro she bought me 4 years ago when I was injured and needed a laptop capable of reading to me, while the tech support dept. (me) was on sick leave.
When I leave for medical care on Saturday, I’ll have everything I need for a 2 week stay away from the home office–entertainment, work and communications–between the phone and the iPad.
Fly with the angels, Steve. You made my life better.
Walker
@RSA:
Now that was not a cheap machine. Wasn’t the IIfx the most expensive Apple product ever?
Tony P.
I have never used Apple products. No particular reason; it just happened that way. So I have no strong feelings about the Mac/PC thing.
I do have strong feelings about what makes a business, or a businessman, admirable. And Jobs was admirable the way great artists are admirable: make something that’s your idea of what “insanely great” means, and let “market share” fend for itself.
–TP
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
History of Apple videos from Georgia Colleges Digital Innovation Group.
Comrade Mary
Pancreatic cancer = boss level.
Shlemizel
Plugh! XYZZY! – damn that was a fun game! did you ever play the Star Trek game where you moved from co-ordinate to co-ordinate and fired torpedos or phasers? I really miss those days.
Apple was a real innovator in the early days, I think that may have been more Woz than Steve but Steve knew how to run the shop and his word could shake a market to the core. He will be missed, how much remains to be seen.
arguingwithsignposts
I wonder if the folks at boingboing had that ready to go for this occasion, like the NYT probably already had an obit ready?
Southern Beale
I started using Apple products way back in the beginning. Remember the Lisa? Yeah I worked on one.
That said, I did work on PCs for a while, but fortunately I switched to Mac early on in my career. Once you go Mac you never go back.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
I wrote my dissertation on a Mac SE using “HyperQual” that came on a floppy disc. In my current gig we got a 5gb click wheel iPod and they gave it to me because I was a rock and roller. I’m now the iTunes U admin for our group. I’ve heard all the whining about Apple and Jobs over the years and I put it right where I put all the other whining about learning management systems and any other technology that causes people to have to change what they do.
The Dangerman
I don’t recall if it was Freshman or Sophomore year I was introduced to Primes and the U of Texas Star Trek; I think I was responsible for Prime terminal access at the lab I was using due to how much I played it…
…must have been sophomore year, as I recall damn near failing Org Chem because I was fucking hooked on Space Invaders (sure, mock me, but, at the time, it was … amazing). No Cobol for me, but it was Fortran 77 and UCSD Pascal.
It makes me immensely sad that, looking back, I could have been part of something revolutionary, but, after spending far too many hours punching cards, I didn’t see where it was going. Jobs and his compatriots did (tis why I’m only driving a fucking beater today).
John Cole
@Shlemizel: Yes- it was called Super Star Trek, or SSTREK. You had to fly around mining delithium crystals, etc.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Southern Beale: Here’s the Lisa Disassembly vid.
JPL
Sarah is preparing a new statement about her plans on not running to be published on Friday. She is demanding her fifteen minutes.
Years from now people will know what Steve Jobs did. Sarah will be a footnote if that.
Darkrose
My first computer was a Mac Plus. I liked the fact that it smiled at me when I turned it on; silly, perhaps, but it made me feel much less intimidated than a PC with a black screen and DOS prompt. I’m not sure I’d be sitting at my current desk, writing this (on a Mac) if I hadn’t had that experience of working with computers that were truly user-friendly.
Arclite
@PurpleGirl: For me it’s always been about four things over the past almost three decades:
1. Games. PCs had ’em. Apple didn’t.
2. Cost. PCs have always been cheaper.
3. Flexibility. I could build a PC from scratch and do so with exactly the parts I wanted to.
4. Maintenance. I knew how to fix it myself
Gromit
Heres a great clip John Gruber linked to a few weeks back. It’s really poignant to see him so young and healthy.
Comrade Javamanphil
I’ve owned more Macs than I can even name. Thanks for challenging convention, Steve. Time to turn those two Mac Plusses in the garage into fish tanks.
Felanius Kootea
So sad.
lamh34
seriously though, it’s interesting because even if you don’t have an apple product or you “hate apple”, it’s amazing how it just kinda seems like everyone feels like they were “personally” acquainted with Steve Jobs.
It’s also interesting that his death came so soon after the announcement yesterday of the IPhone 4S, especially since so many people felt it was a letdown.
FBi Surveillance Van Down By The River
We have a //c, an Apple ///, Mac Plus, NeXT Color Turbo, Mac Pro, MacBooks, iPods, iPhones…and all the art we produced with all those machines.
None of it would exist without Steve. Nor, for that matter would things like Android smartphones, Windows as it exists today, and literally thousands of other products that have spurred further development and innovation.
May he rest in peace, and may his family be consoled.
MikeJ
@Walker:
I would have guessed Lisa. Lisa was $10g in ’83.
Arclite
@JPL:
Decades or more, IMO. Jobs will be referred to then the way Ford is referred to today.
RSA
@Walker:
Could be. I was working for Texas Instruments at the time, and we have lots of them floating around. A TI Explorer, a dedicated Lisp machine, went for $50K or $60K in those days. The microExplorer board was $15K, so when it was shoved into even a $10K Mac, it was a good deal.
Mnemosyne
@Southern Beale:
As I understand it, part of the problem is just the limitations of organ donation itself. You can’t freeze them for later use, and they can’t travel very far without getting damaged, so in a country as large as the US, you will always have some areas that are oversupplied with some organs and undersupplied with others.
It’s a technology problem more than a care distribution problem. The most logical solution would be figuring out a better way to bring the patients to the available organs, but that obviously has its problems as well.
tBone
As I’ve gotten older and seen my household expand and my free time shrink dramatically, I’ve gradually switched to almost all Apple gear at home. Not because I have any problem with Windows or Linux, but simply because the Apple stuff is well-built, easy to use and doesn’t require much maintenance on my part. I think that’s largely attributable to the fact that Jobs wasn’t an engineer, and he understood end users a lot better than most other people in his industry. Sad to see him go at such a relatively young age.
JPL
@Comrade Luke: Thanks.. stay hungry, stay foolish… Not bad words to live by.
opie jeanne
My favorite uncle died of pancreatic cancer, and I understand that it’s a very painful disease. I hope that Jobs’ doctors were a lot more enlightened than my uncle’s were in the 90s.
Our first computer was an Apple II+ and we still have it, packed up in the original box when it became obsolete. It wouldn’t capitalize using the shift key. There was a way to solder something to the keyboard that would fix that, but we just used the other method and heck, you could play ZORK on it, my kid wrote essays for school on it, I published a newsletter for a local garden club, and several other things.
Now our desktop is a Mac with a big flat screen and our laptop is a PC, and they are good for the different jobs for which they are used.
We have a pair of iPhones, purchased when we were heading to Europe for the first time and wanted a phone that would work over there because our house was for sale at the time, and my dad is in his 90s. Other phones would work but we decided that those would do what we needed, and we were right.
And I have one of the tiny $50 iPods, which I used for walking.
Steve Jobs was a brilliant man and his legacy extends far beyond the items produced by the Apple company.
Cat Lady
Bwah hah hah ha ha ha hahhh!
/Bill Gates
dmsilev
@Walker:
I think the ’20th Anniversary Mac’ was more. (checks Wikipedia). Nope, you’re right. IIfx was around $9K, the 20th Anniversary Mac was $7500.
You probably could trick out a Mac Pro to cost more than that if you maxed out all the options, threw in a couple of >$1K monitors, etc., but it would take some doing.
Edit: Just for giggles, I tried it. A fully loaded Mac Pro, including such insanity as 4 512 GB SSDs and a pair of $1K monitors, clocks in at just shy of $20K.
MazeDancer
That’s the Apple logo if you’re on an Apple product. Option+shift+k. And apparently looks like a square if you’re not. Learned that on Twitter tonight.
Steve Jobs deserves two BJ threads at least.
Even if you didn’t know him – or even like him – he changed your life.
Even if you don’t use Apple products, most of the images you see every day in media or entertainment were generated by tools created under Mr. Jobs aegis. The magazines, the pictures, the layouts, the music, the movies, everything.
Those tools certainly earn my living. And I am grateful for them. Every day.
Loved the Apple.com page tribute. Clean, exquisite typography, picture silhouetting and use of space. As it should be.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Oh but let’s prove how smart we are by complaining about how he got his transplant. Or is “critical” the correct word? spit
different-church-lady
Steve Jobs was one of the only people in corporate America who gave a shit about creative people. And he did it in a big way.
Every time someone responds in a positive way to an Apple product, that’s the thing they’re responding to, even if they don’t know it.
DaddyJ
What a shame. I hope the company will continue to push the envelope, but then I remember the Sculley years, so I’m feeling blue.
I believe Jobs was successful because it was always about more than *just* money and market share to him, and that’s pretty rare these days, in or out of the corporate world.
Skepticat
This saddens me tremendously. Brilliant man, lost much, much too young. He made more of an impact in his relatively few years than most do in much longer lifetimes, and I salute that.
I’m also grateful that he was able to be active almost to the end.
Having spent my life in advertising, I’ve been a MacAddict since I began with my Apple IIc, though I usually have had a PC or two around too. I don’t really understand the flame wars; it’s usually just determined by what you started with and what you’re used to. Sort of like any religion, I suppose.
FBi Surveillance Van Down By The River
lamh34: I did meet him once briefly; a very close friend worked for him. The man was a complete bastard sometimes, but he was also good to the people who worked for him. And without his drive and creativity and talent for finding good people and creating tools for people, we’d be in a very different place technologically.
Do you remember the computing landscape in 1982? I do. We’d be a lot closer to that today if it weren’t for him, his ideas and drive.
Mnemosyne
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
I don’t think Southern Beale was complaining, really. She just hadn’t heard the story and didn’t know that you could game the system.
IMO, he gamed it honestly (as in, he did the research and physically moved to where the organ he needed was oversupplied), but I can see how someone who didn’t know how the system works would be shocked that it can be gamed at all.
SiubhanDuinne
Oddly, I happened to be at my local Apple Store this evening waiting for a Genius Bar appointment to address some iPad issues I’ve been experiencing, and I was just scrolling around waiting my turn when the bulletin about Jobs flashed on my screen. So I (rudely) interrupted everyone else there and broke the news to all these Apple employees. Techno-stupid me, and I had the news before any of them. Of course the word spread instantly through the store, and everyone started checking their favorite news sites, and clients were, for a couple of minutes there, somewhat neglected (albeit, I think, equally shocked and saddened). Everyone was saying how fast it was, just a few weeks since he stepped down as CEO.
Big loss. RIP, Mr. Jobs.
Short Bus Bully
Cee-Rist people.
With all the important shit going on the world today we really need 3 threads celebrating the life of a multi-zillionaire who made gadgets for wealthy first-worlders? I wish no ill of the dead and I lurv my ipod, but did the fucker cure cancer or otherwise save lives? No. He was amply rewarded for his work.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Mnemosyne: One of the richest people in the world got medical care most people would not have. Stop the fucking presses.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Short Bus Bully: Yea mothefucker and you HAVE to read every post in every thread.
ajr22
This doesn’t mean Sullivan needs to give up his search for Trig’s real mother! Oh Palin’s 4 hours of media attention is done? R.I.P. Steve Jobs. My Macbookpro>>>
Gwiwer
Apple engages in some seriously sleazy business practices and a lot of their more loathsome policies and practices can be directly traced to Steve Jobs. In addition to that, despite his tremendous wealth, he engaged in no philanthropic or charity causes that I’m aware of and even went so far as to cancel every single corporate philanthropic and charity program Apple was engaged in when he took over the company again. It’s stunning to me the amount of loathsome things people allow Apple to get away with and their biggest success, as far as I’m concerned, is being able to get away with what they do by branding themselves as some kind of hip and progressive company. If Microsoft engaged in even a fraction of the sleazy stuff they do, people would be going ballistic, but Apple gets away with it all relatively unscathed because they ingeniously managed to develop an image that people love to buy into that allowed them to hide behind. That is what has always tainted my view of Apple and Steve Jobs. For whatever good they have done, it will always be colored by all of the negative stuff they also get away with.
Cat Lady
@Short Bus Bully:
His Kool-Aid is teh shizzle.
lamh34
@Short Bus Bully:
Man I love this pie filter thingy!
PurpleGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: It was fast since he stepped down, but he’d been fighting the cancer for a few years. It is sad.
I had a college friend whose father had pancreatic cancer and he was dead within a few months of the diagnosis (circa 1972).
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
“Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.”
SiubhanDuinne
Posted on my FB feed:
Darkrose
@DaddyJ: I remember the Sculley years too, but from everything I’ve heard, Tim Cook was groomed to be the successor, so Apple will be okay for a while, at least.
Arclite
@Cat Lady:
Actually, not.
different-church-lady
I had no idea dying automatically put you into a competition with Mother Theresa.
SiubhanDuinne
@PurpleGirl:
Oh, I know he was diagnosed years ago. But his health was back in the news just a month or two back, so it feels pretty recent.
martha
In about 1985, my then boss plunked a Mac on my desk with a copy of a new program called Pagemaker. We decided to try to create a publication doing something newfangled called “desktop publishing.” I was a writer and researcher, not a graphics person, but I learned it by doing and was creating pages with texts and charts in a week or so. Even today, I look at that 80 page publication and it still looks pretty good. I’m still not a graphic designer, but I can create just about anything we need…I just keep it simple. He helped people do things they didn’t even know they wanted, or could, do.
Short Bus Bully
@Gwiwer:
THIS.
@Cat Lady:
ALSO, TOO.
PeakVT
@lamh34: I feel a little sorry* for future Apple employees because not only will they be expected to meet the high standards set by Jobs, but fanboi nostalgia for Jobs will create expectations that they’ll never be able to meet. “Yeah, Apple sux now. Steve would have had the iPhoneSuchandSuch projecting life-sized rainbows if he were still here. Instead we get this.” And the whiners will point to the iPhone4S – which seems like a pretty nice incremental upgrade – as being “when it started.”
fn: only a little sorry – they’ll still be employed and well paid.
Xboxershorts
@eemom:
What Jobs really was was a great copy cat. Their primary innovation back in the day was actually developed by Xerox at their Palo Alto Research Center. The graphical user interface and the mouse.
The real revolution in personal computing may have started with Apple, but it was IBM that kicked it into high gear when they decided to license their x86 PC architecture which brought in numerous other manufacturers and flooded the markets with real inexpensive usable machines.
Jobs did do an awful lot for personal technology, but I personally will never own an ipod, ipad or iphone. I can not tolerate the digital rights management and being locked into itunes.
My music library has been digitized for over a decade and has zero DRM issues. My personal music player of choice is the Creative Zen which costs 1/2 the cost of an ipod with 16gb of flash storage expandable.
Why anyone would pay such a premium cost to be locked into 1 manufacturers technical footprint for something as liberating as music is beyond me.
I am a network engineer and have been in this field since 1981. I’ve both serviced and regularly used Apple products and that experience (servicing them especially) has left me jaded towards the whole brand I suspect.
None the less, he was a giant in this field and will be missed. Pushing the window, as he did, has made a huge difference.
RIP Steve. Farewell.
lamh34
Like the man or not, like the company or not, you can’t deny that Apple under Steve Jobs not only changed computing and the way we now listen and archive music, but it also paved a lot of ground in the field of consumer marketing.
Shit, I’ve never owned a Mac computer, they are honestly a little too pricey for me even with my income, it would count as a big purchase that I have to justify, contrast that with my HP notebook which cost me about $700 (about $150 of which was actually insurance from Wal-Mart), but who doesn’t remember seeing this video and not thinking “that was cool, I kinda want that..”
1984 Apple’s Macintosh Commercial
At the very least, the man deserves some due for creating and co-founding the company that has done all of this.
Frankie T.
“That isn’t a bad legacy.”
Don’t forget Pixar.
Thanks for everything, Steve.
jheartney
@DaddyJ:
Big difference between now and the Sculley years – Jobs planned this transition, and put the right people in the company to continue. By contrast, Sculley forced Jobs out as a surprise. And Apple’s board is, I’m guessing, a much better group than the old Markkula-dominated one that floundered through one bad CEO after another during Steve’s absence.
Also, I’d guess current Apple products are much more sophisticated things than the old Motorola 68000 Macs, so much of what makes iPads or iPhones or current Macs great comes from people who are still there.
JPL
Here is a link to the New York Times obit..
Mnemosyne
@Short Bus Bully:
1,800 iPads ordered by Ottawa hospital
Sorry, you were saying? I think there’s value in making technology available that can be used to save lives. He was no saint, but he was more than a salesman.
Southern Beale
Anyone following Twitter? The Wall Street protest is getting ugly. Pepper spray, mass arrests …
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
iTunesU is completely free and cross platform.
Shlemizel
@John Cole:
THATS IT! I wish I could find a copy for the PC. It was an excellent time waster.
Ooopps – followed the linkie & there it is!
hamletta
@Short Bus Bully: Conversely, is it really necessary for you to piss all over those three unnecessary threads?
passerby
I was 32 years old back in 1989 and a graduate student at UT Memphis. I was using a Brother portable typewriter for my reports. But, come thesis time, I had to use a computer. The lab at UTM was all Apple (all the time). As an “old dog”, I found it very easy to learn how to use XCel and Word processing functions on the Mac.
But because my family used Windows, back in 1999 I bought a Dell which ran Windows XP and remember cursing the lack of ease in the transition. Mac was far more intuitive.
I’ll never forget how smart Mac was/is, and how it ushered me into the techno-age at the age of 32.
Thank you Apple and Thank You Steve for your contribution.
Well done Steve, well done.
Cat Lady
@Arclite:
Press release. Don’t kid yourself. This is one of the best days of Bill Gates’ life. The guy has a killer instinct, and he didn’t have to do the wet work.
licensed to kill time
I have an 80GB iPod Classic that was handed down to me some years ago and I love it.
I’m hoping for a hand-me-down Mac next. O Apple Fairy, hear my wish!
…and RIP Steve, you changed many lives.
Comrade Luke
@Cat Lady:
Not even close. Here’s his actual statement.
Total class.
suzanne
I’m so depressed. What a visionary.
I mean, forty years ago, who would have thought the world would look like it does today? And if you were to pick one person responsible for that, I would say Steve Jobs would certainly be on that list.
tBone
@Gwiwer:
Sorry, you’re late – some other turds already jumped in the punchbowl. Better luck next time!
different-church-lady
@Xboxershorts:
I guess I’m a little confused about how I got so much of CD library on my hand-me-down iPod then, all free of the taint of DRM. Maybe I just dreamed it…
Mnemosyne
@Cat Lady:
Meh. Bill Gates has been retired for a while now and is mostly involved with his charities. If anything, he got his gloating over with when Jobs first announced he had pancreatic cancer.
hamletta
@Xboxershorts:
iTunes dropped DRM years ago, genius.
Xboxershorts
@tBone:
Gwiwer’s comment is 100% accurate.
Xboxershorts
@hamletta:
iTune sucks, less than genius. That second point is critical to me.
You think I give a damn if you bought into it?
CaseyL
Despite the fact I knew it was coming, I’m still stunned and devastated. The man was one of my heroes.
I remember the first computer I ever got: a collection of PC parts strung together by a family friend that I never figured out how to use.
I remember the first Mac I ever got: at the place I worked, where we shifted from dedicated Xerox word processors to Mac SEs. I plugged my Mac in, loaded the word processing software via disk, sat down, and started writing. That little computer was my primary tool for writing, spreadsheet, graphics, and presentations for the next 5 years.
I still have Macs at home. I don’t have the iPod, iPhone, iPad – but that’s only because I already live on-line 90% of my waking life, and one has to draw the line somewhere.
Goodbye, Steve. You put a dent in the universe, just like you wanted. We will miss you something awful.
Xboxershorts
@different-church-lady:
Like I said, have been an authorized service agent for apple has left me jaded towards the whole brand.
So I haven’t even tried using it in years.
But I can freely move music from my portable to any digital platform. And it plays all the lossless formats too.
Comrade Mary
@different-church-lady: We must be sharing dreams.
And I was tempted by the Creative Zen, but 16 Gb expandable flash storage = one more tiny thing to misplace and maybe even lose permanently. I’m glad it’s out there as an option for people: I like my iPod and iPhone much better. YMMV.
eemom
@Short Bus Bully:
you’re an asshole.
Just that, and nothing more. Your sole contribution here this evening has been to gratuitously piss on the dead.
But go on, keep flaunting what a soul-dead fuckwad you are. Since it is, after all, all you’ve got to offer.
Scott P.
Coincidentally, Sully posted this link today. It’s the computer of 2011 as imagined by Apple in 1987. As it happens, pretty much everything that you see in the video can be done today, and Jobs gets a lot of credit for that.
RIP, Steve.
Uriel
@Xboxershorts:
You are aware that you can put any song you like, from any source that you can convert to an mp3, on to any of those devices you mentioned, right?
khead
@Short Bus Bully:
No. He wouldn’t be dead if he had, dumbass.
He’s not being canonized. People just appreciate cool stuff.
Cat Lady
@Mnemosyne:
55 year old Bill Gates says you’re right, I’m too old for this tech stuff and my kids have nothing to do.
kindness
God bless you Steve & may the FSM hold him close, he’s a good one. My condolences for his family, his friends.
I have both a PC & mac desktop. Many more Apple products but I won’t go on rampage here. I’m an equal opportunity user of things.
God must have blessed Steve & us as I was so happy to see this thread hadn’t degenerated into a mac/PC war.
Good for you. Good Juicers.
tBone
@Xboxershorts:
Thanks for clearing that up, champ.
JPL
President Obama’s statement
“Michelle and I are saddened to learn of the passing of Steve Jobs. Steve was among the greatest of American innovators – brave enough to think differently, bold enough to believe he could change the world, and talented enough to do it.”
lamh34
@JPL:
I’m guessing not many CEO get an actual statement from the POTUS upon his passing?
President Obama on the Passing of Steve Jobs: “He changed the way each of us sees the world.”
BTW, getting political a little, esp since this is a blog that discusses politics right??
But Howard Fineman was on Lawrence O’, and he was going on and on about how Jobs was “apolitical” and “bi-partisan”. Not to be partisan, but it was my understanding that Jobs was a Democrat…right? Is Fineman correct, or was he just blowing smoke up our collective asses?
donailin
he was a national treasure, all things considered. And it aint like we have many more left.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Xboxershorts: “Like I said, have been an authorized service agent for apple has left me jaded towards the whole brand.”
Would you expand on that in a way that would matter to a regular schlub who has found Apple Care a life saver?
Xboxershorts
@Uriel:
I prefer FLAC for my listening pleasure. But I could care less if Apple finally listened to their critics. I am jaded towards the whole brand. I have my reasons.
I don’t hate Apple. I just don’t care for them.
YMMV
Walker
One of the greatest contributions that Apple and Steve made was highlighting the importance of integrating user and industrial design into engineering products. This is what the people who call Apple overpriced and merely cite hardware specs just do not get. And is the reason why Apple was so successful in the past decade.
Fortunately, many other technical companies have learned this lesson as well, giving us better products and greater choice.
gwangung
@Xboxershorts: No, it isn’t. And I speak as someone who works in philanthropy.
But feel free to blather on.
eemom
@Mnemosyne:
Exactly. And exactly which of us here who had the sickness that Jobs did and the resources that he had would NOT have done that?
Seebach
If Steve Jobs was such a genius, it’s really too bad he didn’t decide to go into cancer research. He could have cured cancer. What a waste.
Jenny
I have to say this is all a bit much.
He made some nice pricey products for upscale demographics, but it’s not as if he was Thurgood Marshall or Jonas Salk.
A $500 phone made in China helped working class stiffs how?
I have never understood the allegiances and mourning of celebrities and magnets like Michael Jackson, Steve Jobs, and George Steinbrenner.
“Even the liberal” Keith Olbermann got all weepy last year and devoted long teary coverage to Steinbrenner’s passing and the personal importance of the Yankees to Keith’s life.
This is the same thing, only the elite product is different. People are recounting the importance of a $400 IPod in their lives. I’m sure the single mom working her second job as a waitress at Denny’s is commiserating.
different-church-lady
@Uriel:
Xboxershorts
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Their service channel was terrible to try to work with and the number of times we received malfunctioning replacement parts was unnerving. Reliability of their post market service system was a very troubling issue for me.
Cain
@MikeJ:
I had a NeXT cube, and that was pretty awesome. It’s when I first learned about digital music and the like. It was a pretty sweet setup and some of best screens ever. I mean it was the first high resolution monitors I have ever laid eyes on. It was just beautiful.
Xboxershorts
@gwangung:
OK…
They exported their manufacturing operations to a slave state and are currently poisoning the very people making their stuff…
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1338&bih=747&q=Apple+manufacturing+issues%2C+china&oq=Apple+manufacturing+issues%2C+china&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1424l8672l0l8864l33l29l0l0l0l0l278l4556l4.17.7l28l0
That bothers me. Especially all the serious complaints about their pollution footprint in China.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Xboxershorts: Aha, my new macbook pro screen had a crazy flicker when I closed it. We have Peach Mac, not an Apple Store, but a authorized dealer. It took a really long time to get a new screen (maybe 10 days). I though it was because I bought it online instead of through them but they blamed it on Apple in Memphis. Guess maybe they were telling the truth.
thanks
JPL
@Jenny: I don’t own an Apple product but I appreciated his genius for selling his goods.
Arclite
@Short Bus Bully:
Actually, I agree. To all the people saying, “He changed the world!” No, he changed the FIRST world, the rich world. And did it in amazing ways. But he did not change the world. Bill Gates on the other hand is using his time and billions to actually change the world.
MazeDancer
@PhoenixRising:
What a beautiful story. Perfect tribute.
suzanne
@khead:
I would say he’s more than that. I can’t think of anyone else who so clearly envisioned modern technology as an expression of self. That might be a bit esoteric, but it takes a special person to dream such a dream when most people only had four-function calculators on their desks.
Xboxershorts
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
My experience is from the mid to late 80’s and early 90’s. Maybe it got better, maybe it got worse.
I don’t know.
eemom
OMFG. I thought I knew more or less who all the mindless, soulless dogma-spewers on this blog were. Wrong again.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Xboxershorts: Did they always have Apple Care, I can’t remember?
lamh34
@JPL:
I like this part of Obama’s statement:
“POTUS:There may be no greater tribute to Steve’s success than the fact that much of the world learned of his passing on a device he invented…”
Uriel
@different-church-lady: Yeah, I was going to amend that to include AAC, but I got distrcted and the editing time window expired. I forgot about WAV and AIFF support, just because I don’t use those much. But, thanks for including those as well.
Xboxershorts
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Yes, that’s what they called it way back then.
suzanne
@Jenny:
The demand for cellular technology, driven in no small part by the iPhone and its imitators, has produced networks so portable and reliable that, in many places in the developing world, land lines will never be laid at all, and yet connectivity is spreading every day.
Comrade Kevin
@Xboxershorts:
So, basically, you’re talking out of your ass. What a surprise.
I really do not understand the impulse of some people, whenever someone famous or influential dies, to immediately shit on them.
Cacti
I’m guessing Steve died in a lot more comfort than the workers at Foxconn did.
Cat Lady
@eemom:
I hate that fucking twirling colored pinwheel. If that makes me one of your soulless ghouls, I’m just going to have to soldier on through my pathetic loser life living with that, but I’m not sure how I’ll carry on.
different-church-lady
@Uriel: And probably some other things I’m not aware of. Truth be told I actually don’t spend a lot of time with my iPod, as I still prefer the shiny silver disc thingies from the 18th century.
And for what it’s worth in general: the inevitable flame war reminded me of an anonymous online exchange I had about a month ago, where someone on a relationship BB went off topic to talk about a computer he was building from scratch, I busted his chops for going off-topic, he decided I was dissing his PC (even though I hadn’t even mentioned the Mac), and he asked, “OK, so is there a Mac I can get for a comparable price to function as a home media server the way I’ve described?”
At which point I told him the truth: “I have no idea if there is: I’m too damn busy using my Macs to create content to worry about shit like home media servers.”
Xboxershorts
@Comrade Kevin:
Hey internet tough guy, you can cherry pick comments all day and make them into shit they’re not.
God Bless your innovative sense.
My experience is real, and it is what it is.
If you don’t like it…FINE.
But to take shit out of context and copy/paste to denigrate someone else is NOT a very productive use of life, even if it does give you some sense of importance.
Good luck in life son. I think you’re going to need it.
Arclite
@Cat Lady:
Wow, you really have a negative view of humanity to think that Gates, now retired, now directing his efforts toward helping cure disease and improve life for the world poor, would actually be celebrating the death of Steve Jobs. Gates was ruthless as a business person, but has put is money, time, and mouth where it counts on the humanity front. It’s inconceivable that he’s happy hearing this news. You’re dead wrong.
And call it a press release if you like, but Gates posted it on his personal blog.
Cat Lady
@Arclite:
I don’t have a negative view of humanity, I just think that Bill Gates, billionaire, is looking at this pragmatically. I think he’s genuinely “sad”, since he’s the same age as Jobs, which is young, but to think he isn’t looking at the death of his main competition clear-eyed and opportunistically is being hopelessly naive. Jeebus, this is ridiculous. We’re approaching Michael Jackson territory. The songs from Thriller will probably outlast Apple technology.
eemom
@Cat Lady:
no, hating the color wheel doesn’t put you on my list of ghouls. I hate it too.
Your sick fantasies about Bill Gates, though? Getting warmer.
different-church-lady
@Cat Lady:
And Beethoven will probably outlast them both. Big whoop.
The funny thing is that I think MJ was vastly overrated, but the day he died you didn’t find me crapping all over him on the internet just because other people liked him way more than I thought he deserved.
Appreciative Geek
I read of Steve Jobs’ passing on my tablet. Not an iPad – I’ve never been an Apple fanboi – but my Xoom might never have come about (nor the Touchpads I got for my sister’s family) if the iPad hadn’t taken that first big step. (Shoot – every tablet is still chasing the iPad, let alone walking in the footsteps.)
I’ve never owned an Apple computer, but my first programming class was on the Apple 2C. I figured I was hot stuff using that little machine while the Engineering students were still using punch-cards. That computer helped lead to IBM’s PC, and all the rest that have followed.
Until I bought that Xoom I used my Zune extensively – Yet another product following in the footsteps of Jobs. And my guess is that the HP laptop I am using is of higher quality and usefulness due to Apple’s various laptops…
As I mentioned, I am not an Apple fanboi… but I am tremendously appreciative of those frontiers pushed by Apple under Steve Jobs.
R.I.P.
Cat Lady
Oh fer fuck’s sake. Hagiography sucks.
Peter J
@suzanne:
Because there never was any kind of cellphones before the iPhone…
SiubhanDuinne
@General Stuck:
General Stuck – October 5, 2011 | 8:17 pm · Link
That’s just one fucking awesome sentence.
Martin
In 2001, when the iPod and Apple Stores were launched, Apple employed 8500 people, most in the US. Today, Apple employes 46,000, most in the US. Apple retail employees get paid pretty well for retail and earn benefits including healthcare.
Apple has reinvigorated the independent software sector, which had devolved mostly into a bunch of large corporations and now thanks to the iPhone and iPad has opened up the ability for small, indy developers to be their own bosses and sell their own wares straight to users, to the tune of $3B in revenues returned to those developers.
So, yeah, Apple does get their devices assembled in China. Costs about $6 per iPhone. Now, it’s not great work for anyone but Apple probably spent $600M in China to assemble iPhones. Those iPhones contribute to about $600M in salary (plus benefits above that) for US Apple Store retail employees, and about $1.5B in revenues for developers. I’d say in either case the better and better paying jobs are here. And that excludes all of the Apple engineers, designers, programmers, and so on that made the iPhone possible. And that $4.5B construction project for the new HQ should have a pretty meaningful impact on the CA economy.
So, at least try and see the bigger picture, okay?
Peter J
@Cat Lady:
You should be ashamed.
Contssakitty AKA Karen
I got a macbook pro when my HP laptop finally went and I heard too many horror stories about Vista. Then when my PC went I got a mac mini. Then I converted my mom and two months after I got an iphone this June (which I could only afford because my contract needed to be renewed, same for my mom)she and my dad got an iphone. And I’ll tell you why I love my mac.
My Apple Care ran out in April. Two weeks ago after I downloaded a software update my computer crashed. When I went to the Apple Store they said the logic board (mac equivalent of a motherboard)needed to be replaced. I pleaded with them because my Apple Care ran out, could they give me a break on the price. I figured maybe I’d get fifty dollars off or something.
THEY REPLACED THE LOGIC BOARD FOR FREE! And I had it the next day. When I researched it, I found out that a new logicboard cost almost as much as a new mac.
I had enough trouble getting HP or Dell or any of the Windows PC “care” people to even honor their contract and it cost me the same amount of money as Apple care did. In fact, Dell expected me to slide in the cheap $10 keyboard on my laptop myself and would charge me if I didn’t send back the defective one. To me, if I have the money at the time, good customer service is worth the money.
Darkrose
@Xboxershorts: So…the Sculley years, basically, during which Apple was a completely different company in most respects than after Steve came back.
different-church-lady
@Cat Lady: Unforced error. Set point.
arguingwithsignposts
Now when whoever the evil bastards who run Adobe die, then you can gloat.
/ducks head
Cat Lady
@Peter J:
Bite me.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@passerby: “… back in 1999 I bought a Dell which ran Windows XP…”
Nerd Nit: You mean that you installed WinXP onto after it was released in August 2001. :)
It’s a matter of what you are used to. Some people can adapt to the differences and others will try to but end up resenting having to learn the differences. I look at it as just another way to do something on a computer. First it was a hobby but now that I build and service computers for a living, my interest in various operating systems pays off well by broadening my customer base.
I’ll never live in the Walled Garden since I have no need to. No thank you, I love the wilderness of the pc world. :)
Cacti
@Martin:
.
In 21st century Dickensian workhouses, where employees routinely found death preferable to their work conditions.
But, can’t make an omlette without breaking a few eggs, right?
Big picture, etc.
Felinious Wench
First computer I ever touched was an Apple, don’t even know which one. I was 9, and it was brand new to our school. I got to play Lemonade Stand on it. That was 30 years ago.
I loved tech then. But the 80s about did me in. Was all DOS and learning Basic in high school. But I was also on yearbook and got to play on the Mac. Heaven.
Now, I am a raging and unapologetic geek in both my career and my home life. Steve Jobs was what gave me a place in the tech world…and gave me the passion for it I still carry.
So, go peacefully, Steve. Well done, sir.
Comrade Kevin
@Xboxershorts: Seeing as it’s possible to trace the thread of comments back using the anchor links, I’m not sure what context you think I removed from your comment, “Internet tough guy”. Also, for all you know, I’m as old as you are, “pops”.
eemom
@Cat Lady:
WHAT fucking hagiography? How is giving the man his due hagiography? WHO THE FUCK has said he was a saint?
Just out of curiosity, have you ever been to a funeral? And if so, do you sit there and snicker at the eulogies and talk about how much the deceased’s enemies must be giggling their asses off right now?
GOD.
Xboxershorts
@Darkrose:
I’m not using this experience to speak poorly of Steve Jobs, but as an example of my own negative experience which has jaded me towards the Apple brand.
It is why I don’t care for Apple. I don’t hate Apple, I just don’t care for their products.
I am greatly appreciative of the way they’ve pushed the technical envelope, opened up new sectors and forced others to innovate as well.
And Steve Jobs will be missed.
arguingwithsignposts
@eemom: This seems to be a common occurrence when famous people die and we have BJ threads about them. I’m sure this went on when Ted Kennedy died too. Something makes people want to piss on graves, I guess.
Xboxershorts
@Comrade Kevin:
You grabbed a piece of conversation that didn’t even include you, and took it totally out of context to imply I was shitting on Steve Jobs.
I was not then, I am not now. And you’re a jerk to try imply that I was talking out my ass.
lamh34
CNN has a great video history of Job’s time at Apple: Apple’s passionate pitchman #cnn http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2011/08/24/bts.steve.jobs.apple.timeline.cnn.html
cthulhu
As a number cruncher, and with a Dad who was a number cruncher (and, uh, gamers), I’ve mostly gravitated toward PCs (hell, our first PC’s OS was CP/M). BUT, growing up in Silicon Valley within a couple of miles of Apple HQ, you couldn’t help but respect that company (HP was the other nearby icon and look what has happened there, so sad). My high school class was the first to have a computer class and you can guess who supplied the hardware (Apple IIc’s). And it’s funny how the proprietary game can work out. IBM tried it with microchannel in the mid 80’s and severely knocked down their market share as a result. Just goes to show that if you are not offering something superior/unique as a trade-off for being wedded to a system, why would customers bother?
Darkrose
Steve Jobs had the idea that computers should be like toasters: easy to use and everyone should have one. Maybe you don’t think that’s revolutionary, but I remember thinking that computers were only for math whizzes, and that as someone who sucked at math, there was no point in my trying to learn how to use one.
20 years later, knowing how to use a computer pays the bills. It lets my express myself in writing. It’s my source of entertainment. It’s also where I met my wife. No, Steve Jobs doesn’t get all the credit, but the idea that computers weren’t something that could only be tended by an arcane priesthood of white men and should instead be as ubiquitous as any household appliance? That’s fucking huge.
Gwiwer
@Cat Lady:
What you said is so bizarre it doesn’t seem to make any sense no matter how I try to read it. Leaving aside the fact that Gates has been retired for some time and completely disengaged from Microsoft, you’re also blatantly ignoring the fact that the revolutionary concept which Bill Gates, via Microsoft, introduced to the world of computing was that hardware and software companies benefited from the presence of rival companies more than they were harmed by them. Microsoft was one of the first companies in the industry to realize that they could make a fortune focusing on making software that they could sell to every other hardware and software company in the business. For that reason, Apple’s presence has always been beneficial to Microsoft to the point that Microsoft invested heavily in Apple at various points in the past when Apple was having financial difficulties, including a $150 million dollar investment in the late 90’s. Microsoft makes their money by selling software to everyone they possibly can and they could care less if that software is being run on a Gateway running Windows 7, a Dell running Linux, or a Mac running Mac OS X.
MikeJ
@cthulhu:
Woz offered them the Apple first. Idiots.
At least they have the brown sauce to fall back on.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts:
The true hallmark of a man, or woman, who is now recently deceased, is what kind of letter they wrote their grandchildren after Obama’s inauguration.
For that is the true measure of a man.
Villago Delenda Est
Gene Roddenberry gets no credit for inspiring the geeks to make his fictional stuff real.
Arclite
@Cat Lady: This hole you keep digging, is it for you or Steve Jobs?
Darkrose
@Xboxershorts: And that’s fair. I’m just saying that Apple products from the late ’80’s and early ’90’s are vastly different from the ones today. Just to give one example, I never thought I’d love a Mac because it had a built-in Unix shell. Turns out, that’s one of the things I miss most when I go home to my Windows laptop.
arguingwithsignposts
@Villago Delenda Est:
Should we acknowledge everyone in the lineage? What about Einstein for the theory of relativity? Newton for Gravity and Pythagorus for his theorem?
pete
It’s so sad to read people complaining about someone who just died, in the company of people who are sad about the death. Why not just go elsewhere? There are times when common human decency demands silence.
different-church-lady
@cthulhu:
That’s the funny thing about the “walled garden” argument: I never really spent a lot of time worried about being in a walled garden because Apple (and nearly nobody else) was giving me what I needed. Why should I care about running 50,000 other applications when they all suck or I don’t need any of them or they can’t do what I need them to do?
I didn’t choose the Mac because I wanted to be trendy: I chose it because it did stuff other computers didn’t.
darkmatter
To the people taking their snide shots at Steve Jobs: will you be doing the same when Bill Gates dies or does he get a pass? What a bunch of pathetic assholes. The man hasn’t been dead for 24 hours and the jackals come out to feast.
Simply put: Get a grip and get a life.
Monkeyfister
Fuck Steve Jobs’ Corps in the skull.
No Willed endowments for the Poor, the Middle or Working Class, No nothing for anyone “down here,” nothing for the Arts?
via Bloomberg
Fuck him. Just another Rich piece of shit Technocrat out for his own.
I hope his family has some scruples and some care.
arguingwithsignposts
@Darkrose: It’s also worth people remembering that current Macs will run BOTH Windows and MacOS – without third-party software. That’s huge.
A.J.
Geez. You’re old. I used to work for Pr1me (Yes; a “one”) Computer when only the engineers thought of building their own PC’s while the rest of us laughed.
Villago Delenda Est
@arguingwithsignposts:
The guy who came up with digitized music said he got the idea from Data listening to dozens of pieces of music at once played by the computer.
It’s pretty direct and not theoretical.
Peter J
@Darkrose:
I wish that idea also would have included the price of the computer. IBM did a lot more to make sure that everyone would have a computer than Apple did.
Corner Stone
@Monkeyfister: $6.7B ?? Sheeit, he could barely afford brand name toilet paper.
Probably used downtime to extreme coupon.
different-church-lady
@darkmatter: Apple hatorade never sleeps.
Xboxershorts
@Darkrose: Absolutely. Dumping MAC OS for a BSD based kernel added many new dimensions and features to their personal computer products. Probably improved their reliability too.
And switching to off the shelf replacement/expansion parts was, in my opinion, one of the most important moves they’ve made as a company.
Darkrose
@arguingwithsignposts: Good point. That’s why we have them at work; we support both Mac and PC systems, so with one Mac we have access to both.
cthulhu
Of course there was the Newton misfire, a product just not yet ready for prime time. And yet I will always remember it fondly for its appearance in a Simpsons episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEMkjCAegLs
Lyrebird
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Different kind of elitist nerd here: Started on a CPM system at home, (lightly) programmed TRS80s and Apple IIc’s and IIe’s in secondary school, moved on to VAXen in college and Unix machines (mostly SUNs) at my internship. My Mac SE got me through my BA and MA (over 10 years and two theses)… I did convert to LaTeX towards the end, specifically bc mSoft Word was not backwards compatible in any reliable fashion. (also worked on NeXT machines at school) By the time I was ready to buy another machine of my own, Macs were running Unix, or close enough, so I could use them as command-line machines.
I’m reluctantly facing replacing my iBook G4 (which got me through two more advanced degrees).
Even if none of this were true, I would wish comfort to Jobs’ family. Even though the lives harmed in the manufacturing of many products we all use and rely on is also worth mourning, and please G-d, changing, I absolutely still offer my respects.
peace
Cat Lady
@eemom:
If Steve Jobs had devoted his life to curing Alzheimer’s I’d be all over this, but he developed expensive gizmos. Did he help to make people’s life more interesting and entertaining? Yes. Yay! Was he extremely well rewarded? Hell to the yes. I just don’t care. Good for him, he had a great life, and I wish his soul a dear departure, but he’s a fucking ridiculously rich tech CEO that had a good run and his time was up. I don’t have any interest in pissing on his grave, but I just don’t get the adoration. It’s bizarre.
Xboxershorts
@Corner Stone:
I LOL’d
Darkrose
@Peter J: Actually, IBM didn’t. An actually IBM back in the day was only slightly less than a Mac. It was Bill Gates who realized that he could get rich licensing his software to pretty much anyone that made it possible for almost anyone to buy a Dell, or an HP, or Gateway or Compaq.
different-church-lady
@cthulhu:
You mean the thing they developed during Jobs’ years in exile and he killed the moment he came back?
No one of importance
@Short Bus Bully:
Yes we do, you miserable son of a bitch. Show some fucking respect to the dead, for a start.
different-church-lady
@Cat Lady: You do realize this will be over in a day or two, don’t you?
ChrisNYC
@Arclite: Tell all the guys who own the fake Apple stores in Shanghai and Saigon (they are legion) that Jobs didn’t change the “third world.” They are quite clever those third worlders.
Xboxershorts
@Darkrose: IBM had to also license the BIOS and bus technology.
IBM gambled on OSx and their PS2 bus and lost.
But by licensing their hardware technology, IBM opened up the PC market to hundreds of new manufacturers and actually kicked started the home PC revolution.
Apple, regrettably, remained a closed system for too long and it cost them market share in a big way.
Peter J
@Darkrose: I’m referring to the IBM PC and the IBM PC compatible.
Xboxershorts
@Xboxershorts:
That should say OS/2 not OSx
kestral
Despite having a somewhat tempestuous relationship with the Macs in the college publishing office (they seem to randomly freeze when I use them), I have fond memories of the ones many yonks ago in elementary school. Probably the first computer I ever interacted with, and it blew my mind.
So thanks, Steve. This computer nerd wouldn’t be the same without the little gadgets you and Woz whipped up.
Peter J
@Xboxershorts:
And it’s now clear that Apple didn’t learn the lesson.
Nutella
Can I just say thanks for reminiscing, especially for showing the original Apple logo? This is a welcome change from my Twitter feed which has declared Jobs the equivalent of Gutenberg, Edison, Picasso, Carnegie, and Einstein.
He was a clever, successful, and very rich businessman who died too young. Remembering what he actually did and was is more interesting and more respectful than treating him like he was the apotheosis of Gutenberg, Edison, Picasso, Carnegie, and Einstein.
Martin
@Peter J:
Since the original point was how iPhones made in China helped Americans – how many of those cellphones were designed by Americans? Motorola, and, uh, who else? Who are the top phone builders by revenue?
Apple
Samsung (Korea)
Nokia (Finland)
RIM (Canada)
HTC (Taiwan)
LG (Korea)
Motorola (US)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
So, I’m thinking US workers are getting some benefit here by Apple being up there at #1.
Xboxershorts
@Peter J: Yes and no…
Their willingness to license their APIs for their handheld devices is paying dividends big time. And using a BSD kernel for their PC products allows 3rd party apps to be developed more readily. You used to have to jump through some serious hoops to develop software for the MAC OS. This is no longer the case.
But their hardware technology is still not licensed out except to 3rd party manufacturers making stuff for the Apple brand.
cthulhu
@Peter J:
Only indirectly. IBM PCs weren’t all that much cheaper than Apple but they left enough non-proprietary openings in the architecture that anybody could build a PC. And plenty of companies that longer exist (and some that still do) had huge growth in targeting the entry user.
And while Gates is/was quite ruthless in growing MS, people forget that he, too, took basically someone else’ creation, (which, in his case, was effectively an open source OS) improved upon it, proprietized it, and made billions.
Peter J
@Martin:
You seem to have missed what I was replying to. It was this:
The mobile revolution in developing countries predates the iPhone.
And if some company is to be thanked for it, then it’s Nokia and their line of dirt cheap mobile phones.
Xboxershorts
@cthulhu: Steven Kay (Kaypro Computers) would argue with you (as he did in court with Bill Gates and IBM) that his Operating System, CP/M, was not open source.
He did lose in court, but there are some (I’m in this camp) who would say that it was the weight of IBM and the already installed user base that made the difference in court for Microsoft.
Jon H
@Jenny: “A $500 phone made in China helped working class stiffs how?”
I spent the 90s making a good living writing software for his NeXT computers and operating system.
How many billions of dollars has Apple paid to iPhone software developers?
cthulhu
@different-church-lady:
That’s far too simplistic. The Newton’s OS, to some degree, formed the basis of iOS and the people behind the Newton were instrumental in creating the iPod. The Newton might have been pushed out too early as a technology but say it was “killed” is not the case.
Gwiwer
@cthulhu:
Bill Gates wasn’t the first, or last, person to do that. Back in the day, everyone had their own proprietary version of DOS. Bill Gates’ big breakthrough was to ignore the hardware side of things and focus on just selling his software to anyone who had a machine that could run it. All of the other companies were like Apple and you had to buy their hardware to run their software. Microsoft ignored the hardware side of things and just started churning out software that anyone could buy and run as long as they had a machine capable of doing so regardless of who built it.
Martin
@Monkeyfister:
The guy died a couple of hours ago and you’re cursing the fact the will hasn’t been read yet?
Contribution to the US: in 1997, Apple had a market capitalization of about $4B, and paid no taxes because they lost money every quarter. This quarter Apple is expected to pay $2.5B in taxes and buy about $6B in US Treasuries. They doubled their number of employees since mid-2008, so when everyone else ways laying off, Apple was hiring employees, building stores, and growing. I’d say that’s an improvement.
Jon H
@Villago Delenda Est:
Nonsense. Digitized music predates ST:TNG. Compact discs: you’ve heard of them? The Fairlight (1979), E-Mu Emulator (1982), and the Synclavier sampling keyboards?
The Mac itself, and probably the Lisa, could play digitized sounds.
suzanne
@Corner Stone:
God, you are SUCH a doosh. But, FUCK, you’re funny.
I already gave away my internet today, but if I hadn’t, I’d give it to you.
Jon H
@cthulhu: “The Newton’s OS, to some degree, formed the basis of iOS”
To ZERO degree. iOS is based on Mach, BSD, and the OS X kernel. There’s zero Newton in there. There’s vastly more 68040 NeXT Cube in iOS than there is Newton.
Jon H
@Monkeyfister: “nothing for the Arts?”
Nothing for the Arts? I think there are millions of artists who would disagree.
suzanne
@Peter J:
Can you read?
Literacy. It’s what’s for dinner.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Gwiwer: “… Bill Gates, via Microsoft, introduced to the world of computing was that hardware and software companies benefited from the presence of rival companies more than they were harmed by them.”
This is why I’m a pc person, real competition that I benefit from in the way of better hardware, software and lower costs. I build systems to fit the requirements of the customer and they like it that way, it’s cheaper and it fits their needs. People who prefer Apple computers are paying for their pretty garden with its already planted flowers to choose from, while pc users who opt for a custom system are able to plant their own flowers for a lot less than a Mac or equivalent pc manufacturer build. Mac may users think they have it good but, like any other computers, they have their share of problems too.
Shit happens.
Mac users who run Windows on their systems make me laugh because they still need Windows and have to run it on Mac terms. I don’t need OS X for anything because Windows and Linux can do it all and more. No hardware emulation necessary and easy side by side installation.
different-church-lady
@cthulhu:
Indeed, at the time Jobs announced Apple was ending Newton instead of selling it off, one of the major reasons he gave was that he’d have to sell off the Newton people too, and he wanted to keep those people at Apple for other things.
I was also struck by his first words at the first keynote after he came back from exile, while the company was in a death spiral (paraphrase): “I’ve been looking around at the company and I’ve realized we’ve got a lot of really great people here, but we’ve got them working on the wrong things.”
Sometimes it’s little stuff like that which goes unnoticed and unappreciated by those who just want to parrot cynical conventional narratives.
cthulhu
@Xboxershorts:
Oh, I know. The OS’s of the time were in this very gray area as much of inner workings had been developed by the Feds and public universities before anyone realized that people would pay tons of money for the OS. There were a lot of people in SV at the time that were none too happy with that ruling (maybe some people don’t know but MS has never had a big presence in SV).
But MS-DOS WAS a superior product. Their first attempts at a multi-tasking OS blew and most people stuck with line-command DOS. DESQView was much better and for a brief moment they could have been major contenders but Gates also saw the future with GUIs that Apple pioneered and there you go…
Jon H
@Darkrose: “Turns out, that’s one of the things I miss most when I go home to my Windows laptop.”
Hell, when I use Windows I miss having a functional command line window that integrates with the rest of the environment normally (Windows’ busted copy and paste in the Console, etc) and doesn’t look like ass.
suzanne
@Jon H:
Word.
I’m an architect and graphic designer.
I can’t think of anybody that is more responsible for the entire revolution in the way that I work than Steve Jobs.
Cris (without an H)
Damn damn.
Admiral_Komack
A friend asked for a iPod for Christmas, so I bought it and loaded it with music
While downloading the music and listening to the music after downloading, I remember thinking, “Damn, I have got to have to get me an iPod!”
So, soon after giving my friend the iPod, I bought myself an iPod.
LOVED IT!
When I decided to ditch my flip-phone, I purchased a iPhone (3G); since the 3G was coming out, Apple was selling the 3G’s cheap ($99), so I bought one.
I now have a 3GS and LOVE IT ’cause it does what I want it to do (but then again, that’s why I liked the 3G).
I like iTunes; I don’t mind paying for music.
R.I.P. Steve Jobs.
different-church-lady
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
What the ‘eff does this even mean? You run Windows on Mac hardware and it runs like Windows. The only thing you need special software for is to switch between operating systems. There’s no freakin’ hardware emulation — it’s an Intel chip.
You know, there’s a lot of reasons I don’t like Windows, but I don’t go shooting my mouth off about what Windows can and can’t do, because I don’t actually work with it enough to know if what I’m saying is a crock of shit or not. I guess that makes me some kind of moron as far as how you’re supposed to behave on the internets nowadays.
Jon H
@Cacti: “I’m guessing Steve died in a lot more comfort than the workers at Foxconn did.”
And the workers at Foxconn likely died in more comfort than their peers and elders who remained back in the provinces trying to eke out a living.
Anyway, what makes you think they were working on Apple’s products, rather than on products from Foxconn’s many other clients?
What, do you think HP’s products and XBoxes are assembled by Amish craftsmen?
Monkeyfister
I suspect that we’ll see his family on FOX News whining about Taxes on “Jobs Creators” being unfair before too long.
Yes– pun intended, but Steve Jobs took too many Liberals for a hard ride in his black turtleneck.
Jon H
@Xboxershorts: “What Jobs really was was a great copy cat. Their primary innovation back in the day was actually developed by Xerox at their Palo Alto Research Center. The graphical user interface and the mouse.”
And if it had been left to them it would have been stuck forever in $15,000 office equipment marketed and leased to businesses like copiers.
(But the mouse was invented by Englelbart in the 60s.)
Gwiwer
@different-church-lady:
Er, actually you are shooting your mouth off there… They’re talking about the horribly restrictive agreement Apple essentially makes you agree to when you use their hardware. Apple’s Terms of Service agreements, especially for their computers, are notorious for their silly, restrictive, and occasionally downright bizarre demands. You may think just because you paid that nice chunk of money for that shiny new Mac that it’s yours to do with it what you wish, but Apple says otherwise and failure to follow their rules can have pretty serious consequences such as Apple refusing to service your machine and so on.
Jon H
@Gwiwer: You’re talking nonsense.
Apple provides tools for installing Windows in a partition on your Mac. It’s supported.
Running Windows and/or Linux in a VM is even less of an issue.
eemom
@Cat Lady:
Yes, and what great good have YOU done for humankind — if that is the standard for deserving a shred of decency on the day of one’s death?
The “adoration” shit is all in your mind. Unless you define “adoration” to mean acknowledging the man’s contribution for what it was, even if he wasn’t Mahatma Gandhi. Or better yet, if “adoration” means not being enough of a callous asshole to INSIST that Bill Gates is laughing his ass off.
So tell us — what disease have YOU cured, to deserve a single positive word being said about you when you drop dead? Or better yet, an obituary that doesn’t talk about what an unimpressive loser you were?
tBone
@Cacti:
Well, it’s a good thing the computer or mobile device that you typed that drivel on was made by happy union elves in the good ol’ U S of A, then. Otherwise that would be really embarrassing for you.
BTW – the suicide rate at FoxConn (primary supplier for iPhones, iPads, and a variety of Android devices) is lower than that of China as a whole. And also all 50 U.S. states. So I guess living here is even worse than laboring in 21st century Dickensian workhouses.
I blame
ObamaApple.different-church-lady
@Gwiwer: I see. So what you two are trying to say is that Apple invented the Terms of Service agreement, and so therefore using Windows on Mac hardware is somehow different or inferior than using it on something else.
Is this really the best you guys can do?
Gwiwer
@Jon H:
I’m well aware of Bootcamp and that’s completely irrelevant. The issue isn’t installing Windows on a Mac. The issue is that to have a Mac in the first place requires you to agree to all of their goofy rules, so why bother when you can install Windows and Linux on a perfectly fine, much less expensive, PC from a company that’s not going to insist on you agreeing to a trillion pages of silly, often completely arbitrary, rules for how you use their hardware?
different-church-lady
@Gwiwer:
Uhhh… so you can run Mac OS as well?
And if the issue isn’t what I was talking about, then why did you respond to what I was talking about?
Jon H
@Gwiwer: Why?
Because Windows is shitty and also plenty encumbered, and Linux doesn’t do what I want to do.
suzanne
Might I just note that Steve Jobs’s final act was relegating Caribou Barbie to sidebar status, both literally and figuratively?
wvblueguy
I retired after managing a large IT shop for many years. So I guess I was bi with both a pc and mac background. Now the only PC shit I run is parallels with Windows 7 on my Macbook Pro. I have worked with and enjoyed all of the Apple products that Steve brought to us for many years going back to the first computers to appear in independent PC shops in the early 80’s. Now my IPhone, IPad, Mac Mini, Macbook Air,and Macbook Pro are the tools that make Graphic Design and music so much fun for me. Steve Jobs made it happen for the whole world.
We will miss his genius.
I cried when I heard he had passed, and he was so much younger than me. It is important that we all live everyday to it’s fullest and try to do what the things that are good for ourselves and society in general. Steve… you will be missed.
eemom
@tBone:
Well, that WOULD be an excellent point — except that surely you understimate the righteous “fuck Jobs because Apple made stuff in China” folks here. I mean SURELY they wouldn’t be casting stones at a guy who isn’t even cold yet over oppressed Chinese workers, unless they themselves had long since purged their lives of EVERY material object manufactured in China or under any other equally deplorable conditions.
Gwiwer
@different-church-lady:
Because you obviously had no idea what the person you replied to was talking about so I tried to help clarify things for you. It seems you still have no idea what I and that other person were talking about though. Oh well.
@Jon H:
Then why are you injecting yourself into a discussion about people who buy Macs with the aim of installing Windows on them?
different-church-lady
Final thoughts before I call it a night:
To say “technology he invented” is not really accurate. He was more of a high-tech impresario. He didn’t actually invent this stuff, but he made it possible for the people who did invent it to thrive, and created a path for them to bring it to the world. That’s worth something.
To say “he changed the world” is taking it a bit too far. But he changed bits of the world, some of them significant, and that’s far more than most people do.
And to use his death as just another in one’s endless excuses to use the word “fanboi” I think says something about one’s maturity level that one ought to spend a bit of time thinking about.
different-church-lady
@Gwiwer:
Unless you were trying to convince me you had no idea what he was talking about either, I’d say your effort fell short.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@different-church-lady:
Mac driver support and upgrade options. Talk about limitations, especially if you are a gamer.
Sloegin
Always had a love hate relationship with Apple products; nothing so cool, and nothing that drove me as fucking nuts as some of their failures and corporate moves; dumping the entire Claris line, Macs that couldn’t run Netscape more than 15 minutes without crashing, etc.
PCs have only ever made me yawn. Wonder where we’ll be 10 years from now. Where ever it is, we won’t see quite as much cool stuff.
burnspbesq
@Gwiwer:
If you’re going to throw shit like that around before the man is even in the ground, some serious evidence is in order.
Some fucking people …
burnspbesq
@Xboxershorts:
WE GET IT.
Are you done now?
burnspbesq
@Xboxershorts:
I love FLAC, too; it’s so easily transcoded to AIFF.
The AIFF files can then be run via iTunes into Amarra, the best software there is for computer-based audio, which (oddly enough) only exists for the Mac, because it was developed by and for pro audio people and that’s a vertical market that Macs have always dominated.
And then it goes out via the USB port (a technology initially popularized by Apple) to a DAC that runs in asynchronous mode, virtually eliminating jitter. The software that allows that DAC to run in asynchronous mode (Gordon Rankin’s Streamlength) was developed on (wait for it) a Mac.
But gee whiz, I don’t want to interfere with your enjoyment of inherently inferior sound that results directly from your closed-mindedness.
Cat Lady
@eemom:
Your concern for Bill Gates is very touching. I’m sure you have as much insight into his soul as I do, so feel free to wank away in your sanctimony, because I don’t give a fucking shit. As far as adoration of Steve Jobs, I find it weird. He made some interesting products which made him rich beyond imagination. So fucking sue me because I didn’t drink the kool-aid. It’s just stuff.
Hagiography: “any biography that idealizes or idolizes its subject”. That’s not what’s going on? Really? If not, what are your panties all in a twist about?
burnspbesq
@Monkeyfister:
And you know this how, douchebag? You’ve seen his will? And if so, how did you get it?
Jon H
@Gwiwer: “Then why are you injecting yourself into a discussion about people who buy Macs with the aim of installing Windows on them?”
I have a Windows VM that I use occasionally. I used to use it more often when I worked for a company whose time + expense reporting application was Windows-only. I also used to reboot into Boot Camp to play a game once in a while, though I’m not much of a gamer and haven’t done that lately.
I don’t like Windows, but this is extremely convenient for those instances when I need to use it.
Brachiator
From the tweets illustrated in a Venturebeat story on Jobs,
Our Modern Prometheus, Steve Jobs.
May he rest in peace, and may his example continue to challenge, to enrage, to Inspire.
Gwiwer
@burnspbesq:
Apple’s monopolistic tendencies, attempts to unfairly lock out competitors, attempts to control their hardware with an almost gleefully authoritarian approach to business and R&D, the dreadful conditions of their plants in China, their arbitrary censorship of third party developers, lack of concern for glaring security flaws in their operating systems, and other serious problems are such common knowledge, and have been covered enough in business and computer publications, that these claims are pretty much considered common knowledge to people who’ve been paying attention over the last decade. It’s such common knowledge that even cracked.com did an article about it. If you really haven’t been paying attention and missed all of that, I suppose their article is as good a place to start as any.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html
handy
@burnspbesq:
I’m no fanboi but I work in technology so maybe I have a blind spot here but I’m actually puzzled by the hostility towards Steve Jobs. Yes, he’s a 1 percenter in a very technical sense, but his life’s work was creating real value unlike those pricks on Wall Street. Was it ending wars, solving world hunger, or reforming prisons? No, but for what it’s worth Jobs’ legacy was democratizing technology, and that’s not a bad thing to leave behind in this world.
handy
@Gwiwer:
They’re a for-profit enterprise, and in that regard their behavior while shameful is part of a bigger issue with MNCs and globalization. As for the rest of your screed, it’s little more than FUD (cracked.com? really?)
Jon H
@Gwiwer:
Ok. We get it. You’re a freetard.
Go get yourself an artisanal Amish-built laptop and shut the fuck up.
Jon H
“the dreadful conditions of their plants in China”
They don’t have plants in China. Their suppliers have plants. And those suppliers are the suppliers for everyone else, too.
eemom
@Cat Lady:
I think I’ve explained it pretty clearly four or five times now.
If you drag your head out of your ass you might be able to hear better. Just a suggestion.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Gwiwer:
… unreasoning, misinformed Apple haters for years. All of these attributes that you allude to have no basis in reality, and are in fact fully in evidence in the Windows world. I like the idea of open source software and hardware, but they are behind a pitifully small amount of the work and play that gets done by people with computers.
.
.
Cat Lady
@eemom:
Whatever “it” is that you think you’ve explained, is nothing I’m interested in having explained to me by you. Just sayin’.
eemom
@Jon H:
Ah. So very awesome.
Sir, the surgical precision of that delivery is like a soothing, cooling salve upon the pustulescent rash of assholery that has infected this blog tonight. I thank you most sincerely.
Gwiwer
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
Why thank you for enlightening me to the fact that I’m an unreasoning, misinformed Apple hater and have been for years! Now that I’m aware of this, I feel quite liberated. Perhaps I’ll sell my three Macs and finally have the money to afford one of those artisanal Amish-built computers Jon H has suggested I look into.
eemom
@Cat Lady:
well ok then. In that case, how about you just fuck off now and stop pissing on the dead?
Jon H
BTW: It’s not quite true that Jobs’ Apple gave nothing for public concerns. They gave $100,000 to the anti-Prop 8 campaign. (Er, if I have that right. They donated to the pro-gay-marriage side.)
suzanne
eemom complaining about meanness and assholish behavior is like McMegan complaining about a lack of intellectual rigor in modern journalism.
eemom
@suzanne:
you wanna play again, twerp? Okay.
You’ve been working on that devastating bit of wit all evening, haven’t you? And here we thought you were all grief-stricken.
Short Bus Bully
Love this thread!
It really is sad that Steve Jobs was never appreciated for his brilliance in his lifetime.
Wait…
It is too bad that he was never amply rewarded for his contribution to society.
Wait…
It is sad that in his last years he never received the kind of medical care that a proper first world nation has to give a man of his stature and wealth.
Wait…
It’s terrible that his “legacy” will never be mentioned in MBA courses or the like because he certainly deserved to be –
Steve Jobs ALREADY got his people. Giving sloppy blowjobs to the dead is gross.
Gwiwer
@Jon H:
While you’re bringing that up, I do feel I should correct, or at least clarify, a previous statement I made about Steve Jobs cancelling all of Apple’s charity programs when he took over. That statement is true, but perhaps slightly unfair. While he cancelled their organized programs, Apple does do at least some unorganized charity work like donating computers to schools and whatnot on occasion. How often they do that sort of thing and how it compares to the charity work they did prior to Jobs cancelling their organized philanthropic and charity programs I can not say, but, in fairness, it seems proper to mention this since it might seem, based on what I had previously said, that I was implying Apple ceased to do any sort of charity work altogether which would not be entirely true.
Doug Danger
Final point:
The first world wide web server was developed in Objective-C by Tim Berners-Lee. Obj-C was developed at NeXT computer, founded by Steve Jobs. Berners-Lee is on record noting that the ease of development on the NeXT system made his hypertext transport protocol experiment a bigger success than he imagined.
That little http in your browser? It’s only there because Steve wouldn’t quit trying to make building tools for real users who were trying to create things.
In other words, NONE of what you are doing right this fucking second (reading a web page)would be possible – seriously! – were it not for the man some of you deride as a marketdroid ass-clown on the scale of Jamie Dimon.
Enjoy your Linux boxen and weird ass media formats no one else in your zip code has heard about. Jobs fucking delivered. How have you changed the world today?
The sheer lack of historical knowledge from some of the 12-year-old asstards and washed up service providers who think today is 1990 and Apple still ships Service Source binder pages every month on this thread is fucking breathtaking.
Bethanyanne
I’m gonna skip to the end here, and just say RIP. I wouldn’t be a designer if it weren’t for him. I learned to program on a ][c, and to do graphics on a Quadra. I do UX now. For good and ill, Apple has defined a huge chunk of my world.
Felinious Wench
This is an Irish wake, can we not hoist a glass to the dead and wish him well on his journey?
Can those of you who would prefer to spit on the body please just exit stage left and let us drink and memorialize the man in peace?
Wench, +2. Cheers, Steve.
Darkrose
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Mac users who run Windows on their systems make me laugh because they still need Windows and have to run it on Mac terms. I don’t need OS X for anything because Windows and Linux can do it all and more. No hardware emulation necessary and easy side by side installation.
I run Windows on my Mac at work because a) I support Windows users in addition to Mac users b) I’d still have to run a VM in order to have the three versions of Windows we support, and c) our piece-of-shit ticketing system is slightly less crappy in the native Windows-only client than in the web client.
There are some things the Mac does really well. There are other things it doesn’t; like gaming, which is why my personal system is Windows 7.
As far as your digs about Mac users preferring their “pretty little gardens”, that’s exactly the attitude that made me think for so long that computers were strange, alien things that only people with non-detachable penises could ever use. I didn’t think I needed a computer as a freshman because I was going to be a communications major; computers were for people doing math and science.
I can install Linux. I could probably build my own system if I decided to. It’s also entirely possible that on the list of things I want to spend time doing, wrestling with a Linux installation or building my own machine are fairly low. I’d rather use the computer.
Mnemosyne
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I guess that’s the difference between me and a PC person — I think of my iBook as a machine that helps me perform tasks, not as a pretty garden to play in.
I do think that’s one of the biggest differences between PC fans and Apple fans. You guys love to tinker with the machine. I’ve seen my brother spend hours trying to figure out why the part he just welded to the motherboard isn’t working.
Me, I want to turn on the computer and do things that aren’t actually related to the computer itself. Messing around with the hardware and software to get the computer to do cool things doesn’t interest me. I want to produce cool things using the computer.
A relatively subtle difference, but a pretty major one.
Mnemosyne
@Mnemosyne:
Mind you, I’m not unsympathetic to the hobbyists. I will spend hours hand-knitting a pair of socks for myself even though I’m perfectly aware I can buy a dozen pair for $5 at the Wal-Mart. But I also don’t tell people that they’re slaves to Big Sock if they don’t choose to do the same.
Jon H
@Doug Danger: ” Obj-C was developed at NeXT computer”
Actually, no. It was created by Brad Cox and Tom Love at Stepstone Corporation in the early 80s. It was originally a preprocessor that turned ObjC into C code before compilation.
NeXT adopted it, extended it quite a bit, and were the most prominent user. At some point NeXT acquired all rights to Objective-C.
Jon H
@Short Bus Bully: “It’s terrible that his “legacy” will never be mentioned in MBA courses or the like because he certainly deserved to be –
Steve Jobs ALREADY got his people. Giving sloppy blowjobs to the dead is gross.”
I regret that Jobs won’t be around to continue putting out excellent products, maintaining high standards, and driving industries. I also regret that I never had a chance to work for NeXT or Apple or Pixar during Jobs’ era.
Meanwhile, Dick Cheney is still alive, though he doesn’t even have a pulse any more. And I’ve certainly never benefited in any way from anything Cheney did.
ruemara
Some of y’all need to grow up. And some of y’all need to install a fucking adult behaviour emulator to grow up. Jesus Trannie Christ in Jimmy Choos, I can’t believe the pettiness on display. Fucking toast the fact that the r&d of Apple improved personal electronics, made computers fucking snuggly for the masses and unfortunately gave us godawful graphic design by woeful church secretaries. That’s enough right there. It’s not a hagiography, it’s not internet canonization.
Gwiwer
@Mnemosyne:
Out of the box, without any major tweaking or alterations, both Mac OS X and Windows 7 are pretty much equally capable of doing just about anything 90% of their users will ever want or need them to do. There’s really no functional difference between the two at all. In terms of doing tweaks to further customize the operating systems to your needs or whims, both are probably also about equally capable of that as well.
In the pre- Mac OS X days, you may have been on to something since Macs were designed to make it practically impossible for users to dig in and muck about with the OS on a deeper level. Now that Mac OS X has the Unix shell, that is not an issue. So, your perceptions are based on stereotypes of both Mac and Windows that have been outdated for about a decade now.
Most people who currently dislike Macs are A) Working off of old outdated stereotypes similar to yours, B) Dislike the fact that Apple’s prices are often unreasonably high compared to their competitors, C) Dislike the difficulty in finding software for Macs and compatibility issues encountered when using an OS with such a tiny fraction of the overall market share and how long it sometimes takes Apple to adopt simple things that have already become standard in the rest of the computing world such as two button mice, D) Dislike how restrictive Apple is about how the end user is allowed to use and alter Apple’s hardware and software, or E) Just can’t stand the obnoxious Apple cultists, which are certainly a very vocal but very small minority of Apple users, who behave like their computers are the true religion and the rest of the world is wallowing around in dark, hell-bound ignorance.
My problems with Macs are primarily B, D, and E. C used to be a huge problem for me, and was the primary reason why I started using Windows PCs after a decade of being almost exclusively Mac, but it’s not as huge of a problem as it was back in, for instance, the late 90’s because Macs have become more common and Apple now expends much more effort in trying to remain compatible and in line with everything that’s going on in the computer world at large.
hamletta
@Cat Lady: It ain’t hagiography if it’s true, shit-for-brains.
Xboxershorts
@burnspbesq:
Fuck you asshole. Let me put this in a way YOU will understand…
I don’t hate Apple. I fucking hate their arrogant customer base. Bunch of self absorbed hipsters like yourself.
How’s that douchebag. Easy enough for you to understand?
I been in this field for 30 years now. I’ve used MacOS, MS DOS, CP/M, Cisco IOS, Solaris, BSD, AT&T System V, most every flavor of Linux, Junos, BeOS, Windows…
I have my fucking reasons for not using Apple products, and they are not tied to the portable products. But if someone, for the love of god, doesn’t care for that technical body of work and actually prefers something less expensive and just as functional you have to fucking take it personally and load up directed comments with arrogance and snark? Are you that fucking pathetically devoid of self esteem? Or is it just that you hate your life so much you need to export that whenever possible?
Get a life.
hamletta
@Xboxershorts: No, dear, people just don’t like your pissing on the virtual grave.
Surely you can understand that, or do you have an elderly relative we can use as a demonstration?
MikeBoyScout
I remember going to a new fangled “computer store” and gawking and playing with an Apple II (one had to take a ticket and wait for 15 minutes to play with the demo. We spent days int that store) that I could not afford. Naturally it was beyond my comprehsion that 30 odd years later I would make my living supporting computers.
I remember my highschool buddy getting a Mac from his Mom for x-mas to help him complete his aerospace engineering degree senior project.
I remember being snuck in to the 1990 luncheon for NeXT in Pittsburgh and hearing Jobs.
I remember Jobs’ return to Apple and predicting that his 2nd act would be the greatest 2nd act in history.
I remember the smile on my neice’s face when I gave her an iPod Nano.
No, I am not a Mac nor iOS user, but I’m smart enough to know that Steve Jobs’ vision and determination changed my world and the world I live in for the better.
And lest we forget, Steve Jobs’ father was a Syrian.
arguingwithsignposts
@ruemara:
I reserve that distinction for Microsoft Word and ClipArt.
THE
Rest in Peace–What a strange thing to say.
Of course he’ll rest in peace. He’s dead.
I never bought an Apple product ever.
I was a Windows person always.
But I see Steve Job’s influence everywhere, all around.
He was a very creative human being who enriched our technological culture.
So iSad.
Pathman
Let’s not forget the slave labor that helped propel him to the top. What’s a few dead Chinese workers among friends.
Admiral_Komack
From #235:
“When I decided to ditch my flip-phone, I purchased a iPhone (3G); since the 3GS’s was coming out, Apple was selling the 3G’s cheap ($99), so I bought one.”
There, fixed. :-)
Doug Danger
Thanks for the correction Jon.