Lawrence made Herman Cain look like the jackass that he is.
If you missed The Last Word last night, you really must watch Lawrence O’Donnell’s take-down of Herman Cain (after the jump).
It was a thing of beauty.
At the outset, I agree with Nicholas Wilbur: This man doesn’t stand a chance at being elected, nor do I think he thinks he stands a chance at being elected.
First, calling black Americans “brainwashed” for refusing to consider an alternative to Barack Obama is not a way to win the hearts and minds of black people. Essentially, he called black folks too stupid to realize the glory that is Herman Cain. To that, I say “pfffft!” I can only assume he buys into the “Lincoln was a Republican and freed the slaves, the Democrats are the real racists” line of crap.
Second, Herman Cain’s 999 plan is a load of hogwash — an analysis suggests that the plan would cause the largest deficit since World War II and would increase taxes for most Americans:
Cain claims that his plan would not be “regressive on the poor,” but economists disagree due to the imposition of a national sales tax that would wallop the poor significantly harder than the rich. Cain also claims the plan will be revenue-neutral, in that it would raise as much revenue as the current tax code. I had Center for American Progress Director of Tax and Budget Policy Michael Linden run the numbers on Cain’s plan, and it turns out that it wouldn’t be deficit-neutral — not even close.
~snip~
“Even if we reduced federal spending to the ‘historical average’ (when the population was younger and health care cost much less) it would still leave us with deficits over 11 percent of GDP (bigger than any deficit since WWII, including the deficits of the past three years),” Linden noted.
Linden also found that someone in the bottom quintile of earners — who currently pays about 2 percent of his or her income in federal taxes — would pay about 18 percent under Cain’s plan (9 percent on every dollar they make, plus 9 percent on every dollar they spent, which would likely be close to all of them). A middle-class individual would see his or her taxes go from about 14 percent to about 18 percent. But someone in the richest one percent of Americans would see his or her tax rate fall from about 28 percent to about 11 percent.
Methinks Cain’s 999 plan is not well-thought out — sort of like his ridiculous “I won’t sign any bills longer than three pages” idea (which he quickly walked back). Me-also-thinks he better recognize that he can’t sell the same old failed Republican policies to black people and expect us to buy them simply because he’s hella black (as opposed to so-so black like President Obama (more on that below)).
Third of all, Herman Cain stammered his way through a particularly revealing line of questioning regarding why he decided to “stay out of trouble” and sat on the sidelines of the civil rights movement. Cain’s reasons for doing so (he was “too young”) were flimsy, and that he expects folks to believe that the civil rights movement had some sort of age requirement for participation demonstrates exactly how stupid he thinks people are.
Did he participate at all? Maybe. He attended Morehouse College and I actually find it extremely hard to believe that he sat on the outside of the most important social movement of that time ; moreover, the manner in which he stammered and blinked furiously through the line of questioning suggests that Cain was not being entirely forthright in the interview. Can he admit that he participated? Of course not.
As a black Republican, Cain has to walk an excruciatingly narrow tightrope; he cannot win the Republican primary by representing himself as a man who stood up for the rights of black people. Hell, he can’t even criticize Rick Perry for hunting at “Niggerhead” without having to turn around, backtrack, or else be forced to face the Rush Limbaugh music.
But black people who did participate in the civil rights movement know damn well that his claim that kids under the age of 18 did not participate is a flat-out lie. Women and children were right there along with “of-age” men getting hosed, beaten, and attacked by dogs. Herman Cain? Well, he decided to sit out because “he might have had a sick relative.” Riiiight.
And finally, I want to point out the laughable hypocrisy of the right-wing meme regarding this burgeoning Battle of The Blacks™:
A few take aways: If anyone in the media had treated Barack Obama this way when he was running for president as a U.S. Senator in 2008, they would have been immediately accused of racism.
Re-heally.
I can’t wait for the massive cognitive dissonance-induced head explosions that will surely be set off once Teabillies start demanding Herman Cain’s birth certificate.
Then again, Herman Cain doesn’t share Barack Obama’s latent Kenyosity, so perhaps he’ll be safe from charges of MOOOOSLIM!!! — especially since he has already let his Islamophobic freak flag fly.
Besides, the right-wing nutbags already have their narrative: Herman Cain would be the first “real” black president, unlike Barack Obama’s mulatto ass. (Zandar has a must read post on Laura Ingraham’s offensive comments that Barack Obama isn’t “all the way” black.)
Anyway, enough jibber-jabber from me — just watch the videos, crack open a cold can of awesome, and then watch them again:
[the videos which were here made the site go BOOM! so you can watch them on my blog if you like.]
Viva LO’Donnell!
SIDENOTE: The notion that President Obama’s comments to the CBC that they should “take off their bedroom slippers and put on their marchin’ shoes” had some sort of racial undertones is a crock. Obama used the exact same line to a mostly white crowd at North Carolina State the prior week. Whether or not that rhetoric should be removed from his speeches is one question, but the attempt by Maxine Waters and others to cry havoc! smacks of desperation.
****************
Two Postscripts:
1. You should really read Zandar’s outstanding post on Laura Ingraham’s comments about Herman Cain being the first black President.
2. I am reposting rikyrah’s rant in the comment section of Steve Benen’s post at Washington Monthly because — well — I think it’ll speak for itself (I’m hesitant to even call it a rant, since it’s stated so well and so matter-of-factly):
[cross-posted at Angry Black Lady Chronicles]Black folk in America did NOT invent the ‘one drop rule’.
we didn’t.
we just live under it, and guess what right-wingers, you don’t get to change it ‘just cause’.
Barack Obama is Black
the same way Booker T Washington was Black
the same way Frederick Douglass was Black
the same way Sally Hemmings children sired by whichever Jefferson man who want to put in place of TJ were
the same way W.E.B. DuBois was Black
the same way my grandfather, who would have looked at place walking any street in Scotland was Black
Black people, in America, have been multi-racial since the first time Massa went down to the slave quarters.
take what West Africans look like….
and now look at the rainbow of shades that make up the Black community in America.
how, pray tell,
did we get from West Africa to what we look like now without a whole lot mixing long before it became ‘ tolerated’.
we are the community that has had everyone from the late head of the NAACP Walter White to the late Bernie Mac, and everyone in between.
Barack Hussein Obama is a Black Man
Married to a Black Woman
Raising their Black Children
at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
and Cain is a slave catching sambo of the highest order. what kind of Black man WRITES IN A BOOK, that, in essence, ‘ he went along to get along’ during Jim Crow?
Rick Taylor
I remember my introduction to Herman Cain. I hadn’t heard of him when I looked up a youtube version of the first Republican Presidential debate. When they introduced him as the former CEO of the Godfather pizza chain, I wondered if I’d brought up a video from the Onion by mistake.
Corner Stone
This post is borking the site.
JPL
ABL.. It has come to my attention that you are not a true black.. Laura told me so so can you please change your name. Maybe A.B/W.L and add something else.. Doug already has head and Tom has douche so I’m thinking something along the lines of not a hypocrite like Ingraham.
General Stuck
Somethin’ wrong with WP and this post.
Villago Delenda Est
Another great post, ABL. This jumped out at me in particular:
Cain over the last weekend said something amazingly mild but common sensical about Perry’s “hunting lodge”, but once Massa Rush called him on it, he was proceeded to deliver one of the most offensive “servile negro” stereotype performances I’ve ever seen.
The man utterly destroyed any sense I had that he had any dignity with that.
He should be ashamed. It’s a serious tell that he is not.
eemom
I watched that segment and I was frankly astounded at how awful he was.
Rude, condescending, evasive…..and those were his GOOD qualities.
Villago Delenda Est
BTW, I encourage all of you to check out Zandar’s post that ABL provided the link to.
It’s very good stuff.
I might add, Ingraham can kiss my WASP/Scots-Irish ass, too.
ABL
@General Stuck: i’m trying to fix it. :)
ABL
should be fixed now. BJ_WP no likey MSNBC videos.
General Stuck
@ABL:
yup, fixed now
ABL
@JPL: maybe ABJWL? (The J stands for Jewish.)
MikeJ
My rule is, if were not famous and were pulled over by a cop, what would they treat him like?
JPL
@ABL: teehee.. just watch out when you fly with that title..
also, too.. I do like it.
JPL
@MikeJ: um…In GA famous doesn’t count.
Short Bus Bully
Another outstanding post ABL.
Kudos to the Zandar link as well; holy fuck what a takedown. I like reading about Larry bringing the heat as well since I refuse to pay for cable and watch it on the teevee…
Dee Loralei
I can’t wait til you or Zandar get to what he said at today’s Value Voters Summit! The twitter machine was lively this afternoon during his speech.
And that rikyrah discussion was a thing of beauty.
Corner Stone
I’ve never noticed FYWP borking other posts here for this reason. Seems suspicious.
Wag
Herman Cain wil be gone within 2 weeks, just like every other flavor of the month for the GOP. If polling really does suggest that 81% support the idea of a 5% tax on millionaires, then the GOP is dead in the water, and no potential nominee has a snowball’s chance in hell of election.
Ed in NJ
Now I’m confused. According to the white liberal Tommy Christopher at Mediaite, LOD handed Cain a political gift by being so racist in his questioning of Cain.
Short Bus Bully
Herman Cain will continue to be around as long as he keeps saying sensational shit. After a while the next shiny object will come along and he will take his place next to Alan Keyes in the wake of Obama.
MonkeyBoy
Cain’s just out book, “This Is Herman Cain!: My Journey to the White House” which he is heavily promoting could use some input on its Amazon tags page.
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
It’s well-established that FYWP is capricious and prone to lash out at people for no reason.
kd bart
Where’s the “Adam Raised a Cain” tag?
karen marie
I didn’t like O’Donnell’s combative tone and attitude with Cain in the discussion about Cain’s lack of participation in the civil rights protests. Who the fck is Lawrence O’Donnell to be judging a black man who — beating the odds to graduate high school and working his way through a four-year college — takes his father’s advice to keep his head down during some seriously dangerous years.
I don’t remember O’Donnell ever going after any politician this way because they chose not to join the military. IMO, same thing.
Cain didn’t participate in the Freedom Marches. So what. The same can be said for millions of blacks — and whites. Lawrence O’Donnell was at Harvard College in 1974 when the Boston school desegregation crisis happened. Perhaps he might like to explain why he wasn’t on the front lines for that one.
I think Cain is an idiot and will never get the Republican nomination, and I think it doubtful though not impossible that he get the nomination for vice president, but I think Lawrence O’Donnell was wrong to attack Cain for this.
4tehlulz
Herman Cain is soulless:
Short Bus Bully
@karen marie:
That’s a really good point.
Cat Lady
@4tehlulz:
Obama didn’t say anything about Romney’s religion, but since some said that meant that Obama wanted everyone to think his religion made Romney weird by not saying anything about Romney’s religion, it’s all Obama’s fault that Cain doesn’t want to talk about the pastor’s endorsement of Perry. See? I can haz Politico job now plz?
Villago Delenda Est
@karen marie:
I think O’Donnell’s line of questioning, and you’re right, it was very confrontational, has a lot to do with Cain’s absolutely appalling back flip from his weekend remarks on Perry’s “hunting lodge” at the insistence of Massa Rush.
It was just so absolutely disgusting…Cain made I though a very good statement on that, one that demonstrated that he got the issue, and then he retreated because a fat white guy told him to.
Nate
I found Lawrence O’Donnell’s tone and questioning to be absurdly offensive and infuriating. I’m kind of surprised that more people didn’t.
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid:
Are you sure? Seems like something we should email Cole about.
JPL
LO is being criticized for the interview and Cain is glad to play the victim. Unfortunately, Cain should be asked about 9-9-9 tax reform. That is where he is vulnerable. Corporations pay about 15 percent average in taxation and contribute about 30 percent towards our revenue. A 9 percent tax would decrease our revenue by 10 percent. It’s the anti-buffett rule so the top 1 percent save at least ten or twenty percent more which decreases revenue even more. If as he says it is revenue neutral and not regressive, who makes up the difference? I’m not a mathematician so please feel free to correct me but something is amiss with his plan.
quannlace
Seems that Cain also believes that homosexuality is a choice. Guess he also believes that you can contract AIDS from a mosquito bite, and flu shots can give you the flu.
Ass.
Corner Stone
I just can’t believe the rest of you haven’t gotten this yet. The 999 plan? Clearly Cain is the anti-christ. Flip the script people!
999 = 666
Triassic Sands
I guess Herman believes he shouldn’t put off until tomorrow what he can do today, i.e., bankrupt the country completely.
What’s wrong with these people? Do they simply plan on accumulating as much wealth as possible while destroying our economy and then all the rich will move to Third World countries where they can live in palaces and exploit the poor there?
Of all the Republican candidates only John Huntsman might possibly not represent an existential threat to the well-being of this country and I have my doubts about him. Would he really veto all the nightmarish legislation GOP majorities in the House and Senate would pass? If so, then he’d end up being little different than Obama, whose role, should he win re-election and the GOP wins majorities in both houses, will be mostly one of stopping the worst excesses of the Republicans. And that’s why Republicans have no interest in a Huntsman presidency; he might not go along with everything. Only a lunatic would. Hence, Romney, Perry, etc.
rikyrah
karen marie,
if you were upset with O’Donnell’s tone, then check out his show from tonight where he has Rev. Al, Melissa Harris-Perry and Goldie Taylor from the Grio.com on.
I didn’t have a problem with how he questioned Cain for 2 reasons:
1. Cain had LIED in his book about being in high school during the Civil Rights Movement. he was in College.
and
2. Not just any college, but Morehouse College. The Alma Mater of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The Morehouse of Dr. Benjamin Elijah Mays. The Morehouse in the center of the Atlanta Black College system.
to believe that the Civil Rights Movement just ‘ happened by’ a student at Morehouse would mean that you’d believe a White student, who was at UCal/Berkeley during the 60’s that that period ‘ just happened’.
I don’t believe it for a minute.
Bo Alawine
ABL, if you ever decide to hold a one-day class in provocative blogging, I want to be the first student!
Good job.
karen marie
@Triassic Sands:
They won’t need to move because we will be a third-world country. They can stay here and exploit the poor, just like they’re doing now. Except we’re not all actually poor yet, we’re pre-poor.
El Cid
Ooops — looks like some member of NATO doesn’t know how to behave.
No one’s supposed to mention the family secret. We’re happy about it and it’s not a threat but we can’t mention it because it’s better for all and that’s how it is and please just stop talking about it and making a fuss in front of all the other guests and finish your plate.
Quick! Get the Crusadermobile to the Gates of Vienna! Activate Atlas’ Juggs! Euston Manifestoids, away!
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
He knows. FYWP lashes out at him too.
daryljfontaine
@rikyrah: Not just lied, but tried to use it as an excuse: “The college students were the ones marching, I was just in high school.” Then when called on his blatant lie, he gets defensive: “You have no idea what I did at that time!” (Quotes are paraphrases.)
Herman Cain: doooooouuuuuuuuuche.
D
Occupy Balloon Juice!
@karen marie:
Actually he does it all the time with regards to Vietnam.
For example, he brought out the fact that Trump received 6 deferments and has lied about it in interviews.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Short Bus Bully:
Regarding his activities during the civil rights era, in his book Cain says that his Dad told him to “… go to the back of the bus” if necessary to avoid getting involved. O’Donnell asked him where civil rights would be if Rosa Parks had heeded his father’s advice.
I thought it was a damned good question.
Villago Delenda Est
@El Cid:
“Israel has nukes” is one of the worst kept secrets in the entire world. It’s in the interest of everyone for it to be not officially discussed, however, so this is a departure. An official acknowledgement by Israel would lead to an arms race, and the Arab states are really not eager to be forced into that sort of thing.
Of course, most Americans don’t know that Turkey used to have nukes, and may still do, I’ve been out of the loop for a while…provided by the United States, as part of the entire NATO thing. They’re under US control in peacetime, but the Turks trained to use them at least back during cold war days.
Svensker
@El Cid:
Good for Turkey. The truth shall set you free.
Corner Stone
@El Cid:
“Eat your peas” ?
MikeJ
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Meh. It took extraordinary courage to stand up for civil rights then. While participating is something to be lauded, I think it’s unfair to require that somebody put themselves on the line like that. Especially against the advice of their elders.
Heroes get medals because they did something other people, even good people, didn’t or couldn’t. Rosa Parks is a hero. I wouldn’t ask somebody fresh home from Afghanistan, “where’s your congressional medal of honor?” and taunt them if they didn’t have one.
Cat Lady
@MikeJ:
Yeah, but it takes a special kind of cowardice to then identify with your oppressor.
karen marie
@rikyrah: Yeah, but O’Donnell didn’t push about why he lied. I still think it’s irrelevant. As to why Cain lied, I think it’s pretty easy to deduce — he’s embarrassed that he was a chickenshit.
I lived in White Plains, NY until 1964 when I was age seven. I saw how blacks were treated there. I understood it. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be an 18 to 20-year-old black man trying to stay alive and get an education.
Cain has a lot to answer for with respect to his absurd positions on current issues, but I think it’s wrong to bludgeon him with this. It doesn’t advance any relevant conversation.
Being black, Cain obviously knows firsthand how difficult it is succeeding while black in America. All these missteps can be attributed to him trying to thread the needle. What all his missteps (lying about his age in the mid ’60s, walk-back of his comments about the Perry hunting lodge issue) suggest to me is that he’s doing what he’s always done — bluff — pretend he’s not black, pretend he’s not a target of racial hostility. He fooled himself into thinking that he’s a player instead of being played. It’s worked for him up till now. He’s desperately trying to deal with the collision between the created world he shares with many others and the real world.
I’m in the middle of a card game, but I hope I made myself understood.
piratedan
last I checked, O’Donnell wasn’t running for public office, Cain was. We bemoan the fact that nobody in the MSM asks the truly hard questions and when it happens, its concern trollarama regarding tone and civility. Meanwhile, tone and civility are being used against the middle class and the poor every day while David Brooks tut tuts away and wrings his hands that a few million people are apparently pissed about being out of work and out of a house and wishes that they would simply bootstrap themselves back up or move somewhere where the jobs are, like Indonesia or China.
Wee Bey
@MikeJ:
True, but I probably wouldn’t vote for them to be President, either, ahead of people who did.
Corner Stone
@karen marie:
What kind of card game?
Shade Tail
@MikeJ #46:
I do agree with that, at least as far as it goes. On the other hand, it is unarguable that Cain lied about it. Now, I can easily understand why he lied about it. Not being willing to fight for your own rights isn’t exactly something to be proud of. And on top of that he’s (allegedly) running for President, a position in which you can’t afford to be a shrinking violet. So he’s figuring he has to make excuses for why he couldn’t be an activist, rather than admit that he just didn’t want to.
I understand all of that. But I could excuse his not wanting to take the risk back in the 60s as long as he had the courage to own it now. The problem is, he doesn’t have the courage to own it; he’s lying about it. So it seems to me that the interview was entirely fair.
El Cid
You know who didn’t find a reason not to be able to stand up for the Civil and Voting Rights struggle?
Shirley Sherrod.
Yeah. She got her ass on the line and stood up for voting rights when, you know, it wasn’t quite convenient for young black people in rural Georgia.
So I’m sure Herman Cain was all over the place sticking up for Sherrod when she was being smeared and fired, since she was there when he wasn’t.
Cat Lady
@piratedan:
Seriously, thisety this. Larry O’Donnell makes people squirm cuz his questions are sharp. Support him, and make him ask harder questions that are even sharper and maybe even OH NOES unfair. Shit, I’m so sick of all the panty bunching that liberals indulge in. Seek forgiveness not permission, and not even then.
karen marie
@Corner Stone: Suicide.
@El Cid: Definitely a reflection of his character which, taken together with every other instance where he has run from not just the realities of his own racial brethren but all minorities, should preclude him from being taken seriously as a candidate.
MikeJ
@Wee Bey: Really? You would vote for somebody who had a congressional medal of honor over someone who didn’t solely because of the medal?
Also keep in mind that in the republican primary there’s no Rosa Parks to vote for.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
I wonder about that Lawrence O’Donnell, turning up the heat to 11 on the only black Republican presidential candidate and expecting so much more from him than the other teabag Republican candidates. What’s that all about? I’m sure there’s a word for it. I’ll have Ginni look it up for me at webster.com.
.
.
Corner Stone
@karen marie: Shit. Where are you? Can I join in?
Maybe we can play 42 later?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@piratedan:
Nailed it. In addition, if Cain were a Democrat in this position the right would be hammering away at it endlessly. Need I even say what the M$M and pundits would doing with it?
If the right would ask it of a Democrat then it’s a valid question for a Republican to answer.
B W Smith
@karen marie: Trust me, that was not O’Donnell’s combative tone. I have seen him go off the deep end more than once. Cain has a book out, in that book he explains why he did not participate in civil rights actions in an almost apologetic way with a lie. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt, he, at the very least, obscured the time line. I do not condemn him for not participating and I really don’t think O’Donnell did either. Cain had the opportunity to say that his family was concerned that he may throw away his future or be injured and lose all that his dad and mom had worked for. I am sure that many African Americans chose not to participate along those lines. It took definite courage to put oneself on the line in that way. But he is trying to walk a line as ABL said.
He wishes to portray him himself as the “good” black man, the one acceptable to white men. He, according to his statements today, was able to get to where he was with no help from those African Americans that were willing to go out into the streets and take the beatings and the fire hose. As a white person, it is not up to me to judge how it affects black people, but he certainly makes me question his courage. I don’t know the circumstances of his hiring at Pillsbury, but he was hired at a time when many Blacks were not welcome in corporate America, could he have gotten an assist from the Civil Rights movement there? I don’t know, but he would never admit it if he did.
Corner Stone
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
Uncle Clarence Thomas, as always, you have struck right to the heart of this debate.
But don’t open a Super Coke to celebrate just yet. Your work here is not quite done.
piratedan
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: could be he’s the only candidate with enough sack to show up on O’Donnell’s show…. no wait, I think The Donald was on there and if I recollect, he was also destroyed by similar questioning…
karen marie
@Corner Stone: What’s 42?
gnomedad
@piratedan:
I’m glad O’Donnell took Cain on, but I was disappointed in his tone. “Hard” questions don’t have to be leading questions.
Cacti
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
And how much crap did the left give Dick Cheney for his “I had other priorities in the ’60s than military service” comment?
Herman gets no pass from me. He took the safe and cowardly route during the Civil Rights movement.
Corner Stone
@karen marie: It’s dominoes played with a partner. Me and you against two other people. We shake the bones, then all draw dominoes and start bidding based on how many points we think we can take.
I win the bid and declare 4s are the trump. So anything with a 4 in it is powerful.
This is a general guide, but some peeps have altered parts of it, depending on where you play:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_%28dominoes%29
Corner Stone
I lost touch with my 42 rotating crew several years ago due to family stuff and I am dying to start it back up.
Or backgammon or rummy or bridge or spades or anything.
Not to be shy but I’m not a slouch.
karen marie
@B W Smith: But that’s the issue — his courage now, not his courage then, and that wasn’t clear in the interview. What I saw was O’Donnell berating Cain for not participating in the marches, and that I do not think is appropriate.
I don’t have a TV or radio, so I have only read about this brief history second and third-hand. Maybe my memories of how scary it was in the early ’60s makes me sympathetic to Cain’s action/inaction back then. I agree, lying about it now in order to make himself fit in with Republicans is disgraceful. Not standing up for Sherrod was disgraceful. I wouldn’t have a problem with O’Donnell going after him for those things, but he didn’t.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@karen marie:
One day I looked up and he’s pushin’ eighty
He’s got brown tobacco stains all down his chin
Well to me he was a hero of this country
So why’s he all dressed up like them old men
Drinkin’ beer and playin’ Moon and Forty-two
Jus’ like desperados waitin’ for a train
Like a desperado waitin’ for a train
guy clark
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Corner Stone:
Heaven forfend, Corner! Please – it is “SUPER COKE!” not “Super Coke”. The branding on this is key, as we have all learned from the life and times of one Mr. Steve Jobs.
Lord, when can I lay this heavy burden down? Haven’t I given enough yet? I have a mind to put some legs up and just enjoy life… Not my legs, of course.
.
.
Bago
The right wing Id is one of someone who does what they are told, no questions. In this respect they gravitate towards martial institutions like the military, police, corporate hierarchy, etc.
This gives the people giving the orders a force multiplier. Piss off the Commander, Chief, or CEO, you get your ass busted. There’s always someone above, and someone below, and they all should know their place.
Cain did what his father told him to, and wasn’t hosed. He did his math and worked on ballistics. It’s a tech job, so I see his point. You don’t draft your techies, because not that many people get through that much math. He relishes being a CEO, because at long last he has the power he has always followed. After al of that servitude, he has EARNED his money, dammit! How dare you lower my dollar rank with these taxes?
This cycles out to resent and entitlement, a lust/fear dynamic of power.
Like a boss!
Tl;dr He stayed in school, showed his work, how dare you question him.
El Cid
From Wired:
I know I feel better.
Maybe we’ll one day look back and see that the machines rose up just because we were so fucking pathetically stupid that they took pity on us.
rikyrah
Karen Marie:
Rev. Al was so on point tonight, and got to the crux of why I had little problem with O’Donnell and how he went after Cain.
It’s one thing to say that you took your ‘ own path’, which Cain could have said. It’s altogether something else that you disrespect those who did the heavy lifting to afford YOU the opportunities that you’ve had in America.
I loathe Black conservatives like Cain for many reasons, but chief among them is their willingness to feed into right -wing bullshyt that there simply weren’t any Black folks ‘qualified’ to do anything BEFORE the Civil Rights Movement, and the CVR, then opened the door to all those ‘ unqualified minorities’ to walk through the door. Cain reinforces that the luxury of delusion that I call the ‘World of Mad Men’ was a fact, when, it was FANTASY. They weren’t big fish in a big pond; they were big fish in a pond where 90% of the rest of the pond was shoved into sardine cans.
There has been an educated, qualified Black class in this country since right after the Civil War. My grandmother had her masters degree by the time she married in 1905. She made sure that ALL her daughters were educated with Masters Degrees before Brown vs. Board. And, my family didn’t go to school by themselves. But, my mother and her sisters – all Phi Beta Kappas – had 2 options when they graduated: they could go into social work, or become a teacher. My father, who went to college via the GI Bill after going to war for a country that still considered him a second class citizen the moment he set foot on American soil, achieved the top 1% on the CPA exam, but couldn’t find an accounting job; he couldn’t even get in with the IRS, so he went to the VA and became an X-Ray technician. I have an aunt who had a PhD in Chemistry.
CHEMISTRY.
Do you think she was able to get a ‘ research’ job, of any sort?
NO.
And, why not?
Because, it didn’t matter how qualified you were, my family was the wrong COLOR.
PERIOD.
And, so, to see a slave catcher like Cain pretend otherwise….I can’t even express the depths of the despisal that I feel towards self-hating clowns like him.
Svensker
@B W Smith:
Seriously. He said that? (I can’t make the video work, crappy internet.) And the advances that other blacks made didn’t help him at all? No need for all that civil rights stuff, ol’ Herm coulda got there all by hisself?
No wonder Elizabeth Warren’s “pay it forward” speech fell on such deaf ears on the Repub side. They are seriously delusion and childish. “I put my pants on by myself!”
karen marie
@Corner Stone: I never played dominoes (except as a kid, without having real dominoes players to observe), but I’m a card junkie. After playing Suicide, I’d never go back to regular Spades. If you want to learn, smack me at that link with a time and a nick, we’ll see if we can break you in.
Mark S.
Geez, my white ass doesn’t usually feel comfortable saying this, but Herman Cain is a tad, shall we say, obsequious:
and
Wow.
El Cid
I have no problems with Cain as a man, to the degree that I have information about his life.
He was an extraordinary achiever from a family of real working class poverty, and through insanely hard work and really good business acumen (perhaps evil, maybe he screwed people, I don’t know), routinely turned around huge failing businesses.
Including Godfather’s Pizza, which, if you’re going to run a pizza chain, is no shittier than any of the others.
If Cain wasn’t a lying, cowardly, crazy right wing dingleberry, I wouldn’t have a problem with him.
He’s one of these right wing dicks (the master being Hannity) who will completely 180 degree reverse his position during the very same radio program if it more conforms to a prestigious guest or even a caller. (Hannity can literally do it in the same sentence.)
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
If it had not been for this stellar program Cain, and a shitload more of my contemporaries wouldn’t have had such and easy time laying low until things cooled off:
B W Smith
@Svensker: Not those exact words. It was at the Values Voters Conference. Let me paraphrase his words again because I can’t find a transcript. He said a reporter asked him if he was angry about all that was done to him as a Black man and he said he told the reporter no. According to Cain he has met his American dream because of all that America offers to everyone. It comes around the six minute mark in his speech. He also included a “hit” against Obama saying he (Cain) realized America was an exceptional country, which always irks me. So yes, I extrapolated some, but that is how the speech hit me.
Triassic Sands
@karen marie:
Good point. And so obvious, I’m embarrassed I didn’t acknowledge it in my comment. Thanks for pointing out my foolish oversight. (Perhaps, in my defense, my judgment was clouded by my hatred for these horrible people.)
Meg
@karen marie: O’Donnell just had an all-AA-panel on his show to discuss yesterday’s Cain interview and has acknowledged that his line of questioning about the civil right movement made a lot of his friends very uncomfortable. I applaud him for not running away from the criticism and really wanting to know how other people think about this issue. Besides the overall panel discussion was quite good.
burnspbesq
@rikyrah:
No. Fucking. Way.
I’m as white as the next white guy, but I understand the implications of a Morehouse man sitting out the Civil Rights movement.
How does Cain manage to show his face in public without dying of embarrassment?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@burnspbesq: He didn’t care then and he doesn’t care now.
eemom
So, O’D was offensive because he challenged Cain about things Cain said in his OWN fucking book that he was on the book tour of while DOING the fucking interview?
Another fine example of how there’s no knee-jerk reflex sufficiently brain dead-on-arrival that some on this blog won’t preach it like divine revelation.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Goodbye Phils.
Mark S.
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
The water tastes the same!
eemom
What if O’D was a black guy asking those questions?
AxelFoley
All I have to add to rikyrah’s post is: Now runteldat
Cacti
Totally off the subject, but…
Holy shit! The Cardinals knocked off the Phillies!
The wild card beats the best regular season team in MLB.
Woot!
mclaren
Herman Cain: a less credible version of Alan Keyes.
Corner Stone
@Cacti: Fuck the Phails. Fuck them with something.
grandpajohn
@piratedan:
This a thousand times this. Concern trolls can,t have it both ways
cokane
Herman Cain was about 23 years old when MLK died in Memphis, so it would seem his excuse about being too young is really really lame.
Also don’t think he will get very far in this political game. He says stupid things left and right. He’s just been able to avoid the spotlight, but now he won’t.
Billy Rae Valentine
just for insight, LOD has producers who contruct the different segments of his show. one of his producers wrote that question after spending that entire day reading Cain’s book. his producer was BLACK.
so a black person saw that Cain had decided to “stay out of trouble” as a young adult and not make waves with white people. that producer was struck by it as interesting, then put it to LOD to ask Cain. that’s the background. they were right to see this as an interesting dicussion point but perhaps LOD could have been better at keeping cool in tone while discussing it.
Jamie
Jeesh, I’m so old I remember when Bill Clinton was our first black president.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
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@grandpajohn:
Neither can racist accusers.
.
.
grandpajohn
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: Pathetic, it must be past your bedtime perhaps you can point out the part that is racist? Oh and your concern has been noted
Shade Tail
@grandpajohn:
They sure seem to think they can. Between their lying, blatant double-standards, false equivalencies, and just plain dicking around, the trolls, concern- or otherwise, can always be counted on to be unreasonable and dishonest.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@El Cid:
Hmmm… I wonder if these are powered by the iBomb processor.
If so, then an Apple can get a virus! ;)
Bruce S
84 eemom – before you start BSing about who’s “braindead”, you should watch O’Donnell’s show tonite and listen to Melissa Harris Perry’s comments about how O’D’s Q’s to Cain made her cringe. Luckily for O’Donnell Cain dug himself a deeper hole, rather than fielding the question in a manner that would have been more appropriate than the question itself.
O’Donnell deserves credit for digging deeper into his line of questioning and accepting criticisms of aspects of his interview which were at best poorly framed. But the notion that anyone who found O’Donnell tripped off the deep end with his approach to this issue with Cain is “brain-dead” is…uh…brain-dead. Or just a typically reactive, reductionist ABL Fanboy/Girl.
eemom
@Bruce S:
you’re an idiot. How’s that for “reductionist”?
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
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@grandpajohn:
Dear men’s john, I have been assured repeatedly by my Duly Elected Spokesperson for All Black People on Planet Earth and Beyond that when a white liberal or progressive attacks a black person for their political positions, that white liberal or progressive is a racist. If you weren’t a balloonbagger, which are congenitally unable to recognize their own hypocrisy, you would have paid heed to these repeated and belabored assurances. And oh, one more thing, tenth-wit concern troll… Your concern has been noted.
.
.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
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@Bruce S:
I bet $20.00 the drunk known as eemom calls you an idiot.
.
.
Short Bus Bully
@rikyrah:
Holy fucking great post.
Thanks for that.
feebog
@Rikyrah:
What Short Bus Billy said, squared. The thread really should have just ended with your post.
Snarla
…and Islam hasn’t?
“I respect everybody’s religious beliefs”–pfffft.
Bruce S
101 eemom – you’ve reached your depth. I’d tell you to go fuck yourself, but you’re already totally fucked…
russell
there are worse people in the world than Herman Cain, but running a pizzeria chain is not the same as running the country.
Bruce S
The most glaring reality of O’Donnell’s interview is that – while dividing a lot of folks who loathe Herman Caine over his question about “what if Rosa Parks had followed your dad’s advice?” (which is, as my wife and Melissa Harris Perry schooled me, a terrible, arrogantly framed question and a “civil rights litmus test” which would never, ever be asked of a white candidate, even from the South of Cain’s generation) he let Cain slip by at the very end with presenting his stupid tax plan, but not tearing it apart in any depth. O’Donnell decided to play gotcha over participation in the civil rights movement rather than dissect Cain’s own declared main attraction with any significant attention and skills. The irony of this is that O’Donnell – while not exactly one with the activist track record to hector a black man, no matter how loathesome or dishonest about why he didn’t join SNCC at the age of 18-20 (Rev. Al could have pulled this off, as Harris-Perry noted) – has got major congressional staff credentials on tax policy and is one of the best commentators around tax issues. He focused on a relatively cheap shot and let Cain slip away where he should have nailed him. The clock ran out and Cain had the last word on taxes, without the amount of revenue generated – another Cain lie – even discussed.
Not a good interview. O’Donnell was out of his depth. Cain, of course and true to form, was a dishonest little prick but O’Donnell didn’t have the unambiguous moment of glory alleged here. He could have made real headway in taking down Cain if he’d used his own strengths rather than put himself in a situation that was “cringe-worthy” and smacked of arrogance and the cheap shot. I’ll admit that when I watched the original interview I was a little taken aback by the way O’Donnell put his question to Cain – framing it with Rosa Parks and Cain’s dad’s advice to his son – but enjoyed watching Cain put his foot in his mouth. Watching it again with my wife who fumed at O’Donnell’s question and listening to Harris-Perry in a segment where O’Donnell felt compelled to, if not justify, at least interrogate his own interview it became pretty obvious that Lawrence blew it. Rev. Al did his best to give him cover, but the fact that O’Donnell – to his credit – had three black folks on to talk about one question in his interview with a black man was itself a bit “cringeworthy.”
You don’t do a long segment trying to figure out why your interview pissed off – by O’Donnell’s admission – half of your liberal friends, black and white, who have no sympathy with the interviewee if you did a stellar take-down, as is alleged here. I’ll stipulate, for the sake of certain morons who type here with a jerking knee, that Herman Cain IMHO has gone on record as having more public contempt for black folk than the average Republican politician – which is saying a lot. And that’s the hand he’s playing with the GOP’s base of resentment-driven white folks. And I like O’Donnell. Doesn’t make the “Rosa Parks vs. your dad” bit in O’Donnell’s interview one of his moments of glory.
JayJohnstone
The Daily Show’s takedown of Cain is better, funnier, and more succinct.
This isn’t an anomaly. Why the hell can’t guys like O’Donnell get their act together?
El Cid
@russell: No, but the same goes for any corporation. Personally I am frustrated at the focus on “pizza” as meaning somehow it was a worse corporate experience than running some other company, a tech company or some such, or a bank.
I’m sure that if the guy who owned Home Depot had run for office or the founder of Best Buy it wouldn’t be spoken of quite so derisively as Cain running a pizza franchise corporation.
Again, the problem with Cain is his shitty, ultra-right, dishonest, cowardly right wing views and zero indication he has the slightest capacity to run anything other than a corporate position of franchise control.
Not that this was your emphasis about “pizza”, but a spontaneous rant on my part.
Actually, I might take that all back: I wonder if there’s something special which makes running a giant pizza franchise chain corporation make you into an ultra right douchebag — Cain, and Monaghan from Domino’s.
What about the guy from Papa John’s? Pizza Hut is part of Pepsi, but Cain used to run Godfather’s when it was part of Pillsbury (he led a buyout of it), so maybe the Pizza Hut chair might be the same.
Elie
@karen marie:
I agree that it was a “little” wrong to attack Cain. The only justification is that like all Presidential contenders, he has to deal with all kinds of questions and challenges — some legitimate and nicely stated and others borderline if not all the way offensive — like those Obama gets every effing day. As a candidate, he must address the questions/challenges with grace and dignity. He could have easily addressed your good point in his response, in a less confrontational way, but he just back peddled and looked discomforted and self conscious. He failed the test, not because he did not participate in the marches, but because he came across poorly.
Anyway, just my opinion…
harlana
what an ignorant bitch. these women make me ashamed of my sex. going to watch the O’Donnell clip now.
harlana
but, ABL, you made me read Melanie Morgan the other day and now this. have you no mercy?
harlana
Herman Cain can kiss my ass. He wants to talk about brainwashing? The right wing has brainwashed a large segment of the white population (and not just teabaggers) into thinking that Democratic policies are inherently evil, the very policies that benefit minorities. That the poor and minorities are trying to take everything they have away from them. And that includes the working poor! But I guess the point being consistent with republican morality these days, is nobody deserves a hand up, unless they’re a corporation. He told us people who don’t have jobs have only themselves to blame.
He can go to hell. Look at all these people who have worked all their adult lives thinking they would at least have a modicum of security and they get laid off through no fault of their own. They face mortgages, student loans, child care issues. They’ve lost their savings. He’s talking about those people, who are a much larger group of people than the few who do exploit the system. He wants to reinforce the meme that the unemployed are all a bunch of spoiled lazy whiners. It’s the same republican meme that if you’re born poor or disadvantaged, you deserve to stay right where you are and, if it’s not too much trouble, if you would just go ahead and die, you’d be doing all of us a favor.
Observerinvancouver
@karen marie: I think Lawrence went too far in questioning Cain about his Vietnam War days. Cain had (to my mind) an acceptable reason for not joining the military. Plus, considering the millions of other people (including a certain former President of the U.S.) who didn’t join, singling Cain out on this was, imo, going a bridge too far.
With respect to the civil rights era, Lawrence did catch Cain out on his dissembling about being in high school rather than university. However, he went on far too long on this issue. Not necessary considering Cain’s current vulnerabilities.
Janus Daniels
Demolishing Cain’s candidacy is easy and irrelevant, since his understanding of national issues is as negligible as the chance that anyone not white and male and mainstream Christian (and rich – he’s got that) could get the Republican Party nomination.