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You are here: Home / But why wonder why

But why wonder why

by DougJ|  October 9, 20119:27 pm| 125 Comments

This post is in: Jump! You Fuckers!

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If future historians want to understand the mindset of early 21st century establishment media, this screenshot (Kaplan, Robert Samuelson) should do the trick:

My own thoughts: guitars not guillotines. If Occupy Together can prevent an otherwise inevitable Reign Of Terror, then our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies for their lives and their heads.

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Previous Post: « Warriors: R.I.P., Rev. Shuttlesworth & Professor Bell
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Reader Interactions

125Comments

  1. 1.

    David in NY

    October 9, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Well, duh!!!!

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    October 9, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    As long as the guitar is an axe.

  3. 3.

    capt

    October 9, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    “If the Occupy Together can save an otherwise inevitable Reign Of Terror, then our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies for their lives and their heads.”

    I agree and good observation.

  4. 4.

    newhavenguy

    October 9, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    What many People Who Really Matter seem to forget is that the New Deal was NOT the first step towards Marxism. It was a half measure, a “deal” if you will, to keep them from getting pitchforked and guillotined. I don’t want to see that. I don’t want a revolution.

    All I want is capitalism with a human face.

  5. 5.

    TenguPhule

    October 9, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    guitars not guillotines

    Do you realize how many guitars we’d go through trying to chop off one head?

  6. 6.

    AA+ Bonds

    October 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Rich people: they whine a lot

  7. 7.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    October 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Gee Mr Samuelson give me some of that money, I would like to be “oppressed”. Reminds me of an NBA player Derrick Coleman who once called and 9 year, $8 million a year contract “Slave Wages”

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    October 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    I don’t want to see that.

    I do. With cable rights streamed to help pay for new government jobs.

  9. 9.

    Jenny

    October 9, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    On “Face the Nation”, Herman Cain said protesting Wall Street is “un-American”.

    Whaddya nut job.

  10. 10.

    TenguPhule

    October 9, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    “If the Occupy Together can save an otherwise inevitable Reign Of Terror, then our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies for their lives and their heads.”

    But it won’t and they won’t. It’ll be hippy punching right up until the end when the blade comes chopping down.

  11. 11.

    eemom

    October 9, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    If Occupy Together can prevent an otherwise inevitable Reign Of Terror, then our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies for their lives and their heads.

    ferfuxsake. You ought to know that even if it did, the “Galtian overlords” wouldn’t be thanking shit for shit.

    Guillotines. Guillotines. Guillotines.

  12. 12.

    AA+ Bonds

    October 9, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    It is telling, and it isn’t substantially different from Thomas Aquinas explaining how the rule of king over subjects reflects the rule of God over man and the rule of husband over wife and children, and thus the burden of kings is a Christly one.

    Of course, even Aquinas’s commentaries on the Politics defined oligarchy as a state of harmful evil, its injustice second only to a tyranny of one. Aquinas also suggested that the most harmful sort of mob rule was, for all its faults, more just than oligarchy. How the worm turns, Mr. Samuelson!

    Christianity! Could the Republicans hate it more?

  13. 13.

    dmsilev

    October 9, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Do you realize how many guitars we’d go through trying to chop off one head?

    Very inefficient, and not making proper use of available resources. Guitars have steel strings; I suggest garrotes.

  14. 14.

    TenguPhule

    October 9, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Guitars have steel strings; I suggest garrotes.

    But the whole point of chopping the head off is to mount it on a pike. If we have to stick the whole body on, we’d need to take a page from Vlad and use big ol poles with sharpened tops.

  15. 15.

    Narcissus

    October 9, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    If we have to stick the whole body on, we’d need to take a page from Vlad and use big ol poles with sharpened tops.

    You say this like it’s a bad thing.

  16. 16.

    maya

    October 9, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Sometimes the guillotines of Liberty have to be watered with the blood of patroons.

  17. 17.

    AT

    October 9, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    But the whole point of chopping the head off is to mount it on a pike. If we have to stick the whole body on, we’d need to take a page from Vlad and use big ol poles with sharpened tops.

    Garroting done right will remove the head nice and cleanly, so have no fears.

  18. 18.

    forked tongue

    October 9, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Do I even have to say the Shorter?: “Help, I’m being oppressed!”

  19. 19.

    jefft452

    October 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    “Do you realize how many guitars we’d go through trying to chop off one head?”

    Not a problem, making more guitars could be a jobs program

  20. 20.

    Litlebritdifrnt2

    October 9, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    I really think that mock up guillotines would be perfect right now. Make the 1%ers think a while.

  21. 21.

    Jewish Steel

    October 9, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Those BC Rich guitars look expressly designed for the purpose.

  22. 22.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    October 9, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    The only thing worse than being rich, is not being rich.

  23. 23.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    October 9, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    I kind of like the garrote idea. High E strings should be sharp enough, though of course piano wire is the traditional material. Perhaps using the el kabong move to stun, followed by the garrote for mounting purposes, and you still get the jobs program to replace the ruined guitars.

  24. 24.

    Mark S.

    October 9, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    @forked tongue:

    I foolishly read it, so here it is:

    JOB CREATORS

  25. 25.

    PeakVT

    October 9, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    @TenguPhule: I think if we fit this with a steel edge we should be able to take off half a dozen heads before the neck broke.

    ETA: There’s an Epiphone neck on that one. 2 heads, max.

  26. 26.

    trollhattan

    October 9, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    “My guitar wants to kill your mama.”

    –F. Zappa

    And I think he meant it.

  27. 27.

    MikeJ

    October 9, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt2: I was really thinking about a generic looking truck that could be mistaken for department of public works should tow a tar heater to the protest, maybe a separate truck full of feathers could show up…

  28. 28.

    djork

    October 9, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Wouldn’t guillotines make for a bitchin’ stage show with the guitars? Why not have both?

  29. 29.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    October 9, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    @djork: Sounds like an Alice Cooper concert, circa 1976.

  30. 30.

    Quarks

    October 9, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    I read the opinion piece, and to be fair, he’s right about one thing: I certainly do put Washington Post columnists into the undeserving rich category. To be further fair, his entire editorial explains why.

  31. 31.

    gnomedad

    October 9, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    @forked tongue:

    Do I even have to say the Shorter?: “Help, I’m being oppressed!”

    You’ll want a photo to go with that.

  32. 32.

    JCT

    October 9, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    @Jenny: Between that and his brilliant Foreign Policy chops:

    BRODY: Are you ready for the ‘gotcha’ questions that are coming from the media and others on foreign policy? Like, who’s the president of Uzbekistan?…
    CAIN: I’m ready for the ‘gotcha’ questions and they’re already starting to come. And when they ask me who is the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan I’m going to say, you know, I don’t know. Do you know?
    And then I’m going to say how’s that going to create one job?

    I’m beginning to think this idiot is actually a performance artist.

  33. 33.

    chrome agnomen

    October 9, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    guillotines are too kind.

  34. 34.

    Comrade Misfit

    October 9, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    @maya:

    How’s this for a sign?

  35. 35.

    Mike in NC

    October 9, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    Apologists for the 1% this past week: Robert Samuelson, George Will, Cal Thomas, Bill O’Reilly, & Walter Williams. Let’s just string up these motherfuckers and be done with it.

  36. 36.

    Mino

    October 9, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    A somewhat better use of strings, heh.

    http://www.classicalarchives.com/feature/dont_miss_this.html

  37. 37.

    Comrade Misfit

    October 9, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    @chrome agnomen:

    guillotines are too kind.

    We could always dull the blade a little.

  38. 38.

    Nutella

    October 9, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Krugman thinks they’re getting nervous. Good.

  39. 39.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    October 9, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    Speaking of guitars, This Machine Kills Fascists

  40. 40.

    MikeJ

    October 9, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Why are the media ignoring Occupy Sesame Street?

  41. 41.

    Mino

    October 9, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    And just what does Mr. Samuelson consider an “attack”? Criticism?? Does he consider a hangnail a mortal wound?

  42. 42.

    Linnaeus

    October 9, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    Hey, let’s not forget Woody Guthrie and his guitar.

  43. 43.

    Linnaeus

    October 9, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    Damn you! Beat me to it!

  44. 44.

    RossInDetroit

    October 9, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    If being a rich person in the richest nation ever on the face of the earth isn’t ‘easy’ then what could easy possibly mean?

  45. 45.

    Steeplejack

    October 9, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    Linky broken. You fix.

    ETA: Linky fixed. Bueno.

  46. 46.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    October 9, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    @Steeplejack: I fixed it, try again.

  47. 47.

    RareSanity

    October 9, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    What @eemom said.

    These fuckers are grateful for nothing and will never be. They’re too busy being pissed off at how much they think they’re missing out on because this country dares to help poor people, you know, eat.

    Fuck them! If they’re lucky, it would be as quick and painless as a guillotine.

  48. 48.

    maya

    October 9, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Apologists for the 1% this past week: Robert Samuelson, George Will, Cal Thomas, Bill O’Reilly, & Walter Williams. Let’s just string up these motherfuckers and be done with it.

    Sometimes the lamp posts of Liberty Square have to be festoned with motherfuckers.
    @Comrade Misfit: Close enough

  49. 49.

    jefft452

    October 9, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt2:
    “I really think that mock up guillotines would be perfect right now”
    Agreed,
    But…
    It’s a simple gravity powered device, Most of the work involved is in building the frame. So how would a “mock” guillotine differ from a functioning one?

  50. 50.

    Calouste

    October 9, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    @RossInDetroit:

    War is peace
    Freedom is slavery
    Ignorance is strength
    Easy is hard

  51. 51.

    A Humble Lurker

    October 9, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Might I humbly suggest some theme/protest songs for the OWS?

    Either one of these will do:

    Robber Baron

    Stakes and Torches

    If only because I love this guy’s voice. Mm..

  52. 52.

    Calouste

    October 9, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    @jefft452:

    Make it from a material like plywood that can’t hold a blade heavy enough to cut through someone’s neck.

  53. 53.

    Corner Stone

    October 9, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    @jefft452:

    It’s a simple gravity powered device, Most of the work involved is in building the frame. So how would a “mock” guillotine differ from a functioning one?

    It’s kind of like the ultimate in “green energy”. Just let the rules of the universe do all the work.

  54. 54.

    Litlebritdifrnt2

    October 9, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    @jefft452:

    Easy Aluminium foil for the steel blade. Although at this point I would suggest a real steel blade, and a watermelon for the head. There should be enough decapitations of water melons for the 1%ers to get a clue.

  55. 55.

    something fabulous

    October 9, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    @TenguPhule: And wouldn’t that be a waste of perfectly good guitars?

  56. 56.

    Comrade Mary

    October 9, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Nah, have the entire thing supervised by the BBC.

  57. 57.

    Lojasmo

    October 9, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    I would gladly kill an ultra-rich person in the hope that their cash goes to somebody less ruthlessly stupid.

  58. 58.

    Linda Featheringill

    October 9, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Snarling jackals, bloodthirsty little beasties, militantly superior . . . . .

    And now guillotine humor.

  59. 59.

    Glidwrith

    October 9, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    I’m surprised no one has brought up the slang term for a guitar: axe

  60. 60.

    Corner Stone

    October 9, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    @Linda Featheringill:

    And now guillotine humor.

    I’m not sure it’s all jokes.

  61. 61.

    Corner Stone

    October 9, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    @Glidwrith: “Aherm”
    See my comment at #2 please.

  62. 62.

    scav

    October 9, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    @Corner Stone: Certainly wasn’t all guillotines either. Sort of a broad-based approach is being mapped out.

  63. 63.

    Dustin

    October 9, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    @Corner Stone: A little black humor’s good for the soul. As long as we all remember why it was called the “Reign of Terror” we’re golden. If we can make the 1%ers piss their pants in fear… all the better.

  64. 64.

    PGE

    October 9, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies

    They’ve spent the last three years demonstrating they’re not remotely grateful for us bailing their asses out already. That will never change.

  65. 65.

    Linda Featheringill

    October 9, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Actually, I agree. The thread is getting a little violent.

    Maybe it’s time to remember that in the French Revolution, the majority of people offed by the guillotine were not the upper crust.

    There’s a reason why they said that the revolution ate her own children.

  66. 66.

    Gus diZerega

    October 9, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Thomas Jefferson had some relevant thoughts…

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch15s32.html

  67. 67.

    gocart mozart

    October 9, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    words of wisdom have never been more elequently spoken.

  68. 68.

    Fulcanelli

    October 9, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    @Corner Stone: Dude, the hatred is not all jokes and it’s not coming from all DFH’s and Sockal*sts either and here’s a good reason why…

    This is Why They Hate You and Want You to Die

    You want to know why everyone in this country hates you and wants you dead, you big stupid fucking bank?

    Here’s why, pay attention:

    (Reuters) – Bank of America Corp will pay $11 million to ousted executives Joe Price and Sallie Krawcheck, a large payout at a time when banks face protests over pay but smaller than the eight-figure packages some executives received before the financial crisis.

    Krawcheck — a former Citigroup Inc executive who came to Bank of America in 2009 and was one of the top-ranking women on Wall Street — will receive a one-time payment of $5.15 million, according to separation agreements filed by the bank on Friday.

    Price, a Bank of America veteran, gets $4.15 million. Each will also receive $850,000 over a one-year period.

    Price was head of consumer banking and Krawcheck led wealth and investment operations.

    Eleven million dollars? What the hell world are you inhabiting? Eleven million dollars for two departing executives because things didn’t work out? I’m sorry, but were these two executives of Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez-level importance for your organization? Is that why there are severance deals like this in place? Or are you just completely psychotic?

    It’s not that this isn’t your prerogative as a private company – it is. But seriously, numbers like these at a time when you’re instituting added fees on customer accounts just sound farcical, almost like you’re making these payments to get a reaction out people.

    You look completely ridiculous with news like this at a time when thousands of people are massing in every major city in the country to make the case that you don’t deserve to exist. At a time when you’re being investigated for employing robo-signers just to maintain a certain level of foreclosures processed per month. At a time when you’re laying off rank-and-file employees not by the hundreds, not by the thousands – but in the tens of thousands. At a time when retired seniors, desperately seeking income, have been pushed into annuities, life settlements, commodities and junk bonds because of the zero percent interest rate policy that was meant to nurse you and your balance sheet back to health – and this is what you do with the money? With OUR money?

    Are you crazy?

    You pay fired executives more in severance than the average American worker will earn in a lifetime. For most people on the outside looking in, this seems like it’s from outer space, another world entirely. These numbers just do not exist to regular human beings, they cannot be fathomed. The ordinary American is not a class warrior or a woe-is-me whiner coveting the rewards of others – the ordinary American simply believes that extraordinary rewards should go to those who do extraordinary things, not to paper-pushing failures at parasite banks.

    So let me give you a hint that will save you countless hours and millions of dollars spent on consultants and the public relations morons you keep on staff: This is why they hate you. This very type of thing, while just a single example, epitomizes the piggish mentality that has set you apart from everyone else. This is why they’re marching against you and calling for boycotts and writing their politicians. And this is why your whole model and way of life is on its way to being dead. Forever.

    You want to roll your eyes and make snide remarks about “dumb college kids” and “socialists”? Go ahead but you’re be missing the point. Because it is the small business owner who’s really been wronged here, not the fringe elements you mockingly dismiss. The business owner whose losses are not socialized like yours, the business owner without the government in his pocket, the business owner who is forced to play by the rules that you have paid to have written. He’s not a hippie, he’s not a Marxist…but he’s waking up, dummy.

    You blew the second chance you got with TARP to re-enter society as a productive component of commerce. You went back to bonus-swilling, full-retard mode as though nothing ever happened and 13 million people weren’t sitting around in their post credit-bubble joblessness for three years now. Your tone-deafness and utter disconnection from the rest of the country has produced something extraordinary – You’ve managed to awaken one of the most indolent, lethargic and apathetic populaces in the history of the world. You’ve now stirred a slumbering nation of 300 million from it’s Entennman’s and Zoloft-induced stupor. America is awake now and it’s pissed.

    Good luck with that.

    And this guy’s a stock broker.

  69. 69.

    Martin

    October 9, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    After an 80+ hour workweek, I’m okay with the guillotines. Whatev, so long as it works.

  70. 70.

    Cacti

    October 9, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    My own thoughts: guitars not guillotines

    My thoughts:

    Robespierre not Ghandi

  71. 71.

    Dougerhead

    October 9, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    @PGE:

    I’m sincerely against something like the French Revolution happening here. I sincerely hope that non-violent protest and political action can keep it from happening.

  72. 72.

    Dustin

    October 9, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    They’re words, nothing more. Gallows humor is a time-honored tradition.

  73. 73.

    Fulcanelli

    October 9, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    Hey Doug, I’m not against the French Revolution thing and if you check the moderation queue you’ll know why… please…

  74. 74.

    Corner Stone

    October 9, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    I just…I just never want to watch an episode of “Whitney”.
    Does that make me de facto against the revolucion?

  75. 75.

    newhavenguy

    October 9, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    @Linda Featheringill:

    Exactly. I’m not looking for bloody vengeance so much as I am looking for an economic model that works. Also, hate to be preachy (what with my foul fucking mouth and occasional lack of civility), but the eliminationist rhetoric from the Right is quite enough for me, thank you- I see no need to imitate or encourage it. Violent political fantasies too often turn into violent politics, and the Right is just itching for it to start. (Listen to a few hours of talk radio if you are unfamiliar. Your liberal/minority/Traitor to The Movement ass is variously a “cancer”, a “bacillus” and a “poison”.)

    Hmm, what do you do with cancer anyway? Do you compromise with it and make public policy? Methinks a Real American understands that’s more of a “2nd Amendment Situation”, wink wink just jokin’, y’all.

    They’ve whipped up a whirlwind to be reaped already. Don’t give them their alibi in advance.

  76. 76.

    The Dangerman

    October 9, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    One would think that the fuckers would be smart enough to understand their words add fuel and oxygen to what is still little more than a spark; if they lay low and silent, this may go away, but they appear to want a fire.

  77. 77.

    Chris

    October 9, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    @Dougerhead:

    I’m sincerely against something like the French Revolution happening here. I sincerely hope that non-violent protest and political action can keep it from happening.

    Revolutions are rare occurrences, and they tend to happen in times when the situation is so freaking awful that the Average Joe literally prefers the chaos and anarchy of a revolution to what he’s got right now, because he figures anything‘s got to be better than this.

    Revolutions are never anyone’s preferred solution to things. If and when they happen, though, it usually means all other avenues have been exhausted.

  78. 78.

    Skippy-san

    October 9, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    All the protesting matters not a whit-if folks cannot take this energy and put it to work at the ballot box. I mean the teabaggers are fucked up and ignorant, but they mobilized enough folks to elect losers like Allen West, primarly because enough rational Americans did not get off their asses and vote. The same energy now-HAS to be turned into votes against the GOP in 2012. Otherwise Katie bar the door, the GOP was already going to be out for revenge as it is-this will simply make that revenge even worse. The election of 2012 is very important. A message has to be sent to Eric Cantor and the rest to STFU.

  79. 79.

    Mack Lyons

    October 9, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    @Chris:

    Revolutions are rare occurrences, and they tend to happen in times when the situation is so freaking awful that the Average Joe literally prefers the chaos and anarchy of a revolution to what he’s got right now, because he figures anything’s got to be better than this.

    Which means we have a long, long way to go before that point’s reached. But stranger things have happened.

  80. 80.

    piratedan

    October 10, 2011 at 12:02 am

    @Dustin: and while I support the OWS folks everywhere, my unspoken fear is that instead of these protests forcing Wall Street into coming to the table to allow proper regulation and transparency for the good of everybody. That they will instead continue in persist to have the ‘right” to practice the bending over of the majority of Americans to continued benefit of the few. These actions will then lead to goon squads and agents provocateurs to make it a bloody shambles lurching us ever closer to a plutocratic fascist state. Lets face it, the R’s continue to eat their seed corn and they still continue to pay more devotion to the pledge that they made to Grover Nordquist than they do to the Constitution of the United States.

  81. 81.

    scav

    October 10, 2011 at 12:02 am

    It’s not as though they’re going to listen to, let alone change their behavior in response to quiet, extremely well-mannered and exquisitely penned requests with clearly articulated power-point bullets outlining why the 99% should be “granted” a fair shake. I’m neither a natural Gibbis or native of Tivoli: “If I had my mouth, I would bite”, although I aspire to be more a Hosea Williams (minus the support for St. Ronaldus) than a Don John.

  82. 82.

    jefft452

    October 10, 2011 at 12:03 am

    @Linda Featheringill:

    I’m willing to be reasonable,
    In the spirit of compromise,
    How about we only cut their heads halfway off?

  83. 83.

    eemom

    October 10, 2011 at 12:06 am

    Pearl-clutching p*ssies.

    Let’s put it this way: do you think the so-called “Galtian overlords,” given a choice between bloodshed and changing the status quo, would hesitate for a millionth of a nanosecond?

    People are ALREADY dying in droves because of what these fuckers have done to the country. Yeah, they’re dying quietly of untreated illnesses, and in Iraq and Afghanistan, and of suicide, and as the direct or indirect result of countless other repercussions of the 8 years of Bush and the crash of the economy — but they’re still fucking DYING. And they are the VICTIMS, not the perpetrators.

  84. 84.

    Corner Stone

    October 10, 2011 at 12:06 am

    @Chris:

    Revolutions are never anyone’s preferred solution to things. If and when they happen, though, it usually means all other avenues have been exhausted.

    I’m not sure this is true.
    I don’t think they wait til all avenues have been exhausted.
    I think they are sparked by an event that can not be denied.

  85. 85.

    Linda Featheringill

    October 10, 2011 at 12:09 am

    @eemom: #83

    Let’s put it this way: do you think the so-called “Galtian overlords,” given a choice between bloodshed and changing the status quo, would hesitate for a millionth of a nanosecond?

    Absolutely not. No hesitation. No guilt.

  86. 86.

    Dustin

    October 10, 2011 at 12:16 am

    @eemom: Junior may have done his fair share of fucking up to get us here, but this problem’s been percolating in the background since before I was even born (27 yrs ago, if you’re curious). Thing’s only came to a head recently, but even a child could see the writing on the walls when the biggest show was “flip my house”.

    Things will get much worse before they get better.

  87. 87.

    barath

    October 10, 2011 at 12:33 am

    @A Humble Lurker:

    Might I humbly suggest some theme/protest songs for the OWS?

    I’d like to contribute a song to the pile by Canadian punk band Propagandhi – …And We Thought Nation States Were a Bad Idea that was written over a decade ago but in re-reading the lyrics, I can’t imagine a song more appropriate for these protests:

    publicly subsidized! privately profitable!
    that’s the anthem of the upper-tier
    (the puppeteer untouchable).
    we focus a moment, nod in approval
    and bury our head back in the bar-codes of these neo-colonials
    __
    while our former nemesis (ah, the romance!):
    the nation-state, now plays fund-raiser
    for a new brand of power-concentrate.
    try again, but now we’re confused – what is “class-war”? is this class war? yes, this is class war.
    __
    and i’m just a kid: i can’t believe that i gotta worry
    about this kind of shit! what a stupid world!
    yeah, this is just beautiful…
    absolutely no regard for principle. what a stupid world.
    __
    (we’re): 1) born 2) hired 3) disposed!
    where that job lands, everybody knows
    and you can tell by the smile on the CEOs
    that the environmental restraints are about to go.
    __
    you can bet that laws will be set to ensure
    the benefit of unrestricted labor-laws
    (all kept in place by displaced government death squads).
    they own us. they produce us. they consume us.
    __
    can you fucking believe this? what a stupid world.
    fuck this bullshit display of class-loyalties.
    the media and “our” leaders wrap it all up in a flag
    their fucking shit-rag. hooray!

  88. 88.

    Chris

    October 10, 2011 at 12:37 am

    @A Humble Lurker:

    I recommend Eat The Rich by Aerosmith.

  89. 89.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    October 10, 2011 at 12:44 am

    @eemom:
    @Corner Stone:

    Two really good points, back-to-back. Despite all the trolling and bitching and sniping, you both had something good to add here. Thanks.

  90. 90.

    aisce

    October 10, 2011 at 12:50 am

    can the revolution wait until after breaking bad’s final season is in the books? i’d hate to see anything happen to mess that up.

  91. 91.

    Emerald

    October 10, 2011 at 12:52 am

    @Skippy-san: Yup.

    The same energy now-HAS to be turned into votes against the GOP in 2012. Otherwise Katie bar the door, the GOP was already going to be out for revenge as it is-this will simply make that revenge even worse. The election of 2012 is very important.

    The next president is going to get at least two SCOTUS appointments.

    Do we want two new Roberts? Alitos? or two Sotamayors?

    Or three?

    Because if they’re Republicans, all those new black and brown voters can kiss their voting rights goodbye. Corporations and the one-percenters will be more than just people. They’ll be the new nobility, with extra rights.

    They already appointed a president and got away with it. They can make the Constitution say aaannything they want. They’re already doing it in the red states.

    Barbara Tuchman said: “Every successful revolution puts on in time the robes of the tyrant it has deposed.”

    We win next time or it’s over. I’m for the guillotines, myself, although guitar strings would do quite nicely as well, properly wielded.

  92. 92.

    MacsenMifune

    October 10, 2011 at 12:53 am

    This song gets right to the point-

    DROPKICK MURPHYS

    “Do Or Die”

    The once steel tough fabric of a Union man Was sold and Bartered away
    Fed to money wolves in the Reagen years,
    Caught in a drift in greedy nintetie’s days So inside this song is our rally cry.

    Your dreams are in danger, and “We Must Rise”
    Our time has come we are under the gun “It’s Do or Die”.

    It’s not a rebel cry of some socialist Scheme to push for human rights
    Just the facts an obvious mentioned on the Behalf of the working man,
    for his family and his livelihood.

    Your dreams are in danger, and “We Must Rise”
    Our time has come we are under the gun “It’s Do or Die”.

    The once steel tough fabric of the union man was sold and bartered away
    Fed to money wolves in the Reagen years,
    Caught adrift in greedy nineties days.

    Your dreams are in danger, and “We Must Rise”
    Our time has come we are under the gun “It’s Do or Die”.
    Dropkick Murphys Do or Die

  93. 93.

    YoohooCthulhu

    October 10, 2011 at 12:55 am

    @eemom: You DO realize that guillotines were originally devised as humane execution devices for animals?

    Which is fine, as long as you want to be humane

  94. 94.

    Calouste

    October 10, 2011 at 12:59 am

    @Chris:

    People are not as unwilling as you think. Civil wars also result in a lot of chaos and anarchy, and they have been started and joined with abandon. And the difference between a civil war and a revolution is partially whether the leaders were part of the establishment or not.

  95. 95.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    October 10, 2011 at 1:05 am

    @barath: I prefer Back to the Motor League.

  96. 96.

    Judas Escargot

    October 10, 2011 at 1:05 am

    Bloodlust, people.

    It’s a bad, bad thing.

  97. 97.

    amk

    October 10, 2011 at 1:07 am

    One fall-out of this ows is that the enablers and the shills of ws banksters, aka congress critters, have been given a complete pass these past weeks by the americans. AJA anyone ?

  98. 98.

    PanurgeATL

    October 10, 2011 at 1:12 am

    It’s always “over” if we don’t win this time, isn’t it? Feh! No wonder we’re so terrible at long-term effort.

  99. 99.

    Linkmeister

    October 10, 2011 at 1:18 am

    @A Humble Lurker: I’m partial to Volunteers, myself.

  100. 100.

    Elliecat

    October 10, 2011 at 1:21 am

    @Judas Escargot:

    Bloodlust, people.

    It’s a bad, bad thing.

    It knows no bounds.

    I was just looking at the FB page of my local Occupy group and there seems to be some division over which part of the 99% are worthy of support.

    Anyone who thinks it’s just the 1% who would going to the guillotines ought to read some history.

    ed: flipping box quotes

  101. 101.

    eemom

    October 10, 2011 at 1:38 am

    I think everybody ought to calm the fuck down with the history lessons and other random angst, support the protests 100 zillion percent, do whatever else can be done, and see what happens.

  102. 102.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 10, 2011 at 1:41 am

    Hey, now, these are job creators we’re talking about. We have to keep that in mind. Like how guillotine-pulley-oilers and guillotine-blade-sharpeners are woefully underemployed.

  103. 103.

    eemom

    October 10, 2011 at 1:44 am

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    I miss fuckie. : (

  104. 104.

    Phoenician in a time of Romans

    October 10, 2011 at 1:54 am

    The teabaggers walk around conspiciously carrying guns. I don’t see how erecting a (mock) guillotine is any more a symbol of violence.

  105. 105.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    October 10, 2011 at 1:57 am

    @YoohooCthulhu:

    You DO realize that guillotines were originally devised as humane execution devices for animals?

    Huh? No they weren’t.

    Execution at the time in France consisted of various far more painful and long-lasting methods, especially for the poor, and the Guillotine was created as a more humane form of execution for people. The German engineer who Dr Guillotin and others commissioned to design it tested it on animals at first, but that wasn’t what it was built for. They based it partly on some older devices but none were for non-human animals.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine
    http://europeanhistory.about.com/cs/frenchrevolution/a/Guillotine_3.htm

  106. 106.

    Yutsano

    October 10, 2011 at 1:57 am

    @eemom: Wait…where did he go? I mean I hadn’t seen him post in awhile but didn’t know he’d departed.

  107. 107.

    eemom

    October 10, 2011 at 2:06 am

    @Yutsano

    Dunno where he went, nor of any formal departure, but he’s been absent a long time.

  108. 108.

    Sly

    October 10, 2011 at 2:19 am

    @Elliecat:

    Anyone who thinks it’s just the 1% who would going to the guillotines ought to read some history.

    The Terror was a witch hunt against enemies of the Revolution who, in the eyes of Robespierre, either willingly or through ignorance aided foreign powers who sought to reimpose the French monarchy. So, yes, more commoners were guillotined than nobles, but the crimes they were “convicted” of (deserting the army, hoarding food, etc) are illustrative of the unique circumstances the Jacobins were in and the extreme paranoia those circumstances helped generate. It’s also important to note that large chunks of the noble population got the fuck out of France as soon as the Bastille went down, depriving the Jacobins of… well… “better targets.”

  109. 109.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 10, 2011 at 2:22 am

    f Occupy Together can prevent an otherwise inevitable Reign Of Terror, then our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies for their lives and their heads.

    The last time we came close to this, FDR saved these assholes from a well deserved fate.

    They repaid his good deed by vilifying him.

    I’m not sure they learned their lesson. Perhaps other means are necessary to get the point across.

  110. 110.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    October 10, 2011 at 2:32 am

    That Samuelson article is amazing. He seems to actually think he’s being just a reasonable centrist looking at all sides coolly, but it’s riddled with so many holes it’s like some right wing Swiss Cheese.

    For years, liberal politicians, academics and pundits have complained about growing inequality, but their protests barely resonated with the public. When most people are doing okay, the fact that some people are doing better does not arouse much anger. No more.

    So he seems to think that only since the crash of 2008 have people not been “doing okay”, despite the fact that everyone but the rich has actually lost ground for something on the order of decades.

    He then trots out the canard that it’s a “myth” that the rich escape fair taxation by using the right wing framing, as they always do, that the top X percent pay XX percent of all taxes, rather than what percentage of their taxes each of them pays.

    Of course they pay more taxes as a group, because they make more money. The “group” you’re talking about is a tiny percentage that makes more money than the vast majority, combined.

    One of his claims may be the sleaziest yet; he says that inequality is “A global phenomenon”. His general theme for the article is very McCardlesque, one of sort of “oh well, yes we have a two-tiered society but not our fault, everyone does, nothing can be done about it, it’s complicated and my calculator doesn’t work” and so on. So here’s how he presents that part:

    Second, it’s a global phenomenon. In a 2008 study, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) found that inequality had increased for 17 out of 22 countries over two decades, though conditions vary dramatically by country. In Sweden and Denmark, the richest 10 percent have incomes about five times greater than those of the poorest 10 percent. In the United States, the ratio is 14-1. The OECD average is 9-1. Mexico has the highest, 27-1.

    Got that? His clear implication that the massive inequality that the US has now is happening everywhere, is supported by citing places like Sweden where the richest ten percent earn five times what the poorest ten percent earn. In the US, they earn fourteen times as much. Even the world average is nearly half what the US is, which is on a par now with some of the worst places on Earth.

    So by citing how in many countries (17 out of 22!) the ratio has increased, at all, he implies that the massive increase in the US is a “global phenomenon”, that all other countries have reached the same ridiculous ratios as ours.

    I haven’t read anything at the WAPO in ages. With people like this guy, the result is not so much the blind fury you get from reading other more blatant right wingers, as much as that you feel like you need a bath, from the pure sleaze.

  111. 111.

    Elliecat

    October 10, 2011 at 2:41 am

    @Sly:

    illustrative of the unique circumstances the Jacobins were in and the extreme paranoia those circumstances helped generate.

    Nothing unique about it. Every revolution or movement gets it at some level—there are always informants or suspected informants to exterminate. (Winnie Mandela apparently advocating “necklaces” always comes to my mind in this context.)

  112. 112.

    Chris

    October 10, 2011 at 2:42 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The last time we came close to this, FDR saved these assholes from a well deserved fate.
    …
    They repaid his good deed by vilifying him.
    …
    I’m not sure they learned their lesson.

    No, I don’t think they did.

    It ought to be common sense for elites to make concessions to the regular folk to keep them happy as soon as they can sense trouble brewing… the British were pretty good at that all through the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, which is why they kept their heads and avoided the kind of trouble other countries on the continent faced.

    American elites, to put it mildly, aren’t nearly that smart and have a far, far bigger entitlement complex. It’s not a good combination. Even if you could convince them that investing in the common people (and therefore their own peace and stability) was good for business, I suspect their inner child would revolt at the idea, throw a tantrum because it’s not fair that they should have to do that, and refuse point-blank just out of spite.

  113. 113.

    barath

    October 10, 2011 at 7:10 am

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    I prefer Back to the Motor League.

    Heh, yeah. Though not sure I was ever a big fan of Today’s Empires Tomorrow’s Ashes… Anyway, Nation States is a good fit lyrically.

  114. 114.

    arguingwithsignposts

    October 10, 2011 at 7:22 am

    I am reminded of a report from 2009:

    some bankers gave explanations for the industry’s high salaries, such as “competing for talent on an international market.” But, President Obama cut them off. “My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks,” the president told them.

    Emphasis added.

  115. 115.

    tjmn

    October 10, 2011 at 7:25 am

    @Fulcanelli:

    This is a fine example of what Molly Ivins called “sustained outrage.” I miss her writing and I think she would be very pleased with OWS.

  116. 116.

    tjmn

    October 10, 2011 at 7:25 am

    @Fulcanelli:

    This is a fine example of what Molly Ivins called “sustained outrage.” I miss her writing and I think she would be very pleased with OWS.

  117. 117.

    arguingwithsignposts

    October 10, 2011 at 8:07 am

    BTW, the headline on that Samuelson column has been changed: The backlash against the rich.

  118. 118.

    cleek

    October 10, 2011 at 8:10 am

    @TenguPhule:

    Do you realize how many guitars we’d go through trying to chop off one head?

    quite a few…

  119. 119.

    NCSteve

    October 10, 2011 at 10:14 am

    I’m being repetitious of things other’s have said, I’m sure. But if history teaches anything, it is that nothing makes a plutocrat more boilingly, persistently, furious than a government that saves him from bloody revolution by setting boundaries on the limits of his rapacity. In many ways, our politics today are all about the wealthy’s generationally transmitted hatred of FDR.

  120. 120.

    Bruce S

    October 10, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Interesting data from Ruy Truxeira on the way “moderates” and “independents” are responding to Obama’s more populist voice:

    Recent polling data confirm that Obama’s strategy is paying off with both base and swing voters. In the most recent Washington Post/ABC poll, Democrats say they trust Obama over the Republicans in Congress to create jobs by 79-8, up from 69-11 in September. And Independents, too, now favor Obama on jobs, by 44-31, a big shift from 37-42 in September. And not only do Democrats support Obama’s jobs plan and believe it will improve the jobs situation, but so too do independents, by margins of 47-38 and 52-44, respectively. Moderates, meanwhile, are even more enthusiastic—support figures among this group are 5-9 points higher than among Independents on all these questions. As for raising taxes on the rich: Bring it on! By 65-28, Independents favor raising taxes on households with over a million dollars in income.

    (Of course some of us who were suggesting this might be a better focus substantively and politically for the Prez than the “Grand Compromise” a la Simpson-Bowles Deficit Obsession or signaling stuff like trimming SS benefits or raising Medicare’s eligibility age, got predictably and serially called “firebagger” for it in the usual suspect threads – along with long explanations of why those policies would be just fine with them or were something other than what they actually are. Y’all look pretty stupid right now, if I do say so myself.)

  121. 121.

    Sir Nose'D

    October 10, 2011 at 11:28 am

    If Occupy Together can prevent an otherwise inevitable Reign Of Terror, then our Galtian overlords should thank the hippies for their lives and their heads.

    Pretty much right on. The Tea Party/GOP would do well to read Marx as well. I think he had a thing or two to say about extreme economic inequality as a necessary precondition for the rise of the working class. Its funny in a sad way, but the Tea Party/GOP are don’t seem to realize the future has about an equal chance of being a utopian Neo-feudal paradise and a reign of terror-triggered failing state.

  122. 122.

    Bruce S

    October 10, 2011 at 11:45 am

    121 – Sir Nose’D

    Liberal reformists are the true “conservatives” – the moderate, cautious cohort who want to keep the social fabric from completely rending and allow for stability and continuity of society rather than radical rupture.

  123. 123.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 10, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    @Sir Nose’D:

    The Tea Party/GOP would do well to read Marx as well.

    If they refuse to read Smith, they’ll never read Marx. It’s terribly easy to quote Smith on a glibertarian site and be lambasted as a Marxist.

    These people don’t know the canon they claim to be faithful to. Which is pretty much the same thing as fundie Christians, now that I think about it…

  124. 124.

    Howlin Wolfe

    October 10, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    @capt: I agree, too. These a-holes forget that FDR saved their fat asses back then, too.

  125. 125.

    El Cid

    October 10, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Many consider it Marxist to conduct uncontrolled readings of the Bible and citing its actual content when they don’t like the implications, or, often as likely, are ignorant of the content.

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