Probably NSFW: a cop parks his motorcycle on a protester’s leg and leaves it there while the protester writhes in pain.
I’m sure Malkin and the OTB boys will be around to tell us the guy was faking any minute now.
Reader Interactions
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cleek
ooh… they didn’t like when he kicked that bike over. nosireee. gonna get charged for that, ya DFH.
Samara Morgan
what did Julian say?
oh yeah.
America is going to become a police state on its way to non-linear system collapse.
:)
Maude
Wasn’t the guy a lawyer? I thought I read that in the article.
This isn’t going to go well for the cop.
Bloomberg is trying to walk a thin line with this and he isn’t doing too well so far.
The cop need to be suspended. Perhaps fired after it is looked into.
Loneoak
I saw elsewhere the guy with his leg trapped under the scooter was an observer for a legal aid organization. I imagine the largest hammer will be brought on this case of police abuse.
ETA: He was an observer for the National Lawyers Guild. I’m pretty sure that ‘observer’ is a role that non-lawyers often hold.
pragmatism
somebody please ensure that the dfh does not get a granite prosthetic leg or legs. thank you in advance.
kindness
How come I never saw anything like that at a TeaBagger protest?
singfoom
Slightly better video of this same thing that I posted in the previous thread: http://vimeo.com/30550909
The hitting him with batons and dragging him around after running him over seemed a bit much…
beltane
Saw this in DKos and I’m not going to subject myself to that again. If it weren’t for the ubiquity of cameras I’m sure the police would have been using live ammo on protesters already.
The only thing Bloomberg is accomplishing by this is the creation of a whole new generation of radical leaders. Asshole.
Bill in Section 147
Proof that DFHs are just sissies. ealMan would have just grunted, “Is that all you got.”
My only issue with this video is that someone (not you) keeps selling it as “Cop Runs Over Man.” So when I first saw it I was like huh…the bikes barely moving…
Police Consider the Press to Be a Speed Bump on the Road to Just Oppression is probably more like what is happening in this video.
The indifference with which the cop rolls over the guy is like chocolate pudding to the right. Delicious and cold.
The only thing missing from this Dickensian tale is no gold was scattered to the parents of the child by the liveried servants.
Jason T.
The New York Daily News is claiming the lawyer was struck, but wasn’t actually pinned by the bike:
Take that with whatever grains of salt you like, and as far as I can tell, the News is one of the only sources making that claim.
joeyess
Erick Son of Erick Son of Erick Son of….. thinks that all the Right has to do is win over the hearts and minds of OWS. He tries like hell, but he just can’t bring himself to admit that these Banksters….. well, I’ll let him tell it:
See? If the government would just get out of the way of Wall Street more than they already are, everything would be just fucking peachy. Same old bullshit from the Ginger of Gingivitis.
bookcat
good god. the level of disconnect and hate these officers must have for protesters, shoot for anyone they perceive as against them, is terrifying. You can’t suddenly conjure that up. That’s a preexisting sociopathic condition right there.
LosGatosCA
People who don’t strap on weapons to their demonstrations are much more dangerous than those that do.
Dontchaknow
beltane
@kindness: Imagine the bloodshed that would ensue if these protesters were waving guns around? The right is allowed to make threats about 2nd Amendment remedies while the left is not even permitted to exercise their 1st Amendment rights.
PeakVT
@Maude: That reminds me: Did Anthony “Tony” Bologna get fired/suspended/disciplined/scolded? I haven’t seen any follow-up on that.
Loneoak
I’d like to know if that is one of the cops whose salary is being paid by Our Corporate Overlords.
It’s actually quite a brilliant system: corporations pay a police officer’s salary, get to command their use of arrest and use of deadly weapons, and the officer’s actions are indemnified by the tax payers against whom the corporation directs the police powers.
cleek
@Jason T.:
that is, actually, exactly what it looks like.
if i was lying on the ground (why?), and a motorcycle pulled up, by instinct would be to get my legs far away. this guy appeared, in both videos linked here, to be trying to get his feet underneath the bike.
that’s what the videos look like, to me, anyway.
WereBear
The man may not be a lawyer, but I’m sure he has lawyer friends.
Joseph Nobles
Perhaps it wasn’t the leg under the wheel that was the problem. Perhaps it was the leg in contact with the motorcycle’s exhaust pipe.
Jenny
Bloomberg = Mubarak
This reminds me of the Tehran protests. Of course when it happens overseas the NYC media becomes rightfully outrage. But when it happens here, they lose the ability to type.
WaterGirl
@beltane: I expected better than this from bloomberg. The only positive I see is that this stuff will really hurt him politically, which makes me worry less about a potential run against obama in 2012.
You are so right about a new generation of radical leaders. The police are quickly undoing everything they did to un-do my thinking of them as the bad guys after the 1960s.
jl
@Jason T.:
Oh, I see, they guy was only struck by a moving motor vehicle. That is never a big deal, is it? Obviously the guy is faking it. (note: that is snark)
Whatever happened, I don’t see what was going on that justified letting the guy lie there, then coming back and leisurely whomping on him with a baton a little, and dragging him off in handcuffs. Doesn’t look good, and in addition, hard to see how it is good.
Canuckistani Tom
@Loneoak:
I’m gonna burn for this, but on hearing the name ‘National Lawyers Guild’ did anyone else get a mental picture of coming around a corner in World of Warcraft and finding a horde of orcs in business suits?
RP
@Joseph Nobles: I had the same thought. Scooters just don’t weigh that much, and it’s hard to imagine that having the inflated rubber tire of one on your ankle or foot could cause that much pain.
singfoom
@cleek: I think this one is a tossup. From the vimeo, it’s obvious that he was struck by the scooter.
Was he run over by it? I can’t tell. But the actions of the police after he was struck, the dragging him and hitting with nightsticks, not really necessary.
To be sure of it, we’d need video that included the actual hit in the frame…
piratedan
@kindness: “because cops got better things to do than get shot in Chinatown” – Wang Chi, Big Trouble in Little China
Shinobi
This was actually in an AP article I’d read this morning, that alleged that he tripped and was then hit by the motorcycle. His struggling COULD be him trying to get up. He could also be writhing in pain, as one does.
Whether it was intentional or not that cop is SITTING ON TOP OF HIM on a bike for several seconds in that video. Even if the guy was trying to entrap the cops into breaking his leg (super fun!) the cops should know better. Would that be an excuse for a normal scooter driver?
“Oh he INTENTIONALLY fell in front of my scooter your honor, I just ran over him like he wanted me to. But then he kicked my bike! So then me an 10 of my friends dragged him around on the ground and beat the crap out of him. That’s what he gets for making me run over him in my motorized vehicle.”
soonergrunt
@Canuckistani Tom: I would pay cash money to see that.
jl
Oh for cripes sake. If the guy was hit by a moving scooter, I think that would hurt. You do not have to get hit very much by moter vehicle of any kind to feel quite a bit of pain. I know from personal experience.
I don’t see the sense of speculating that a person who might be in great pain was trying to fake something that was imputed by other people in the crowd and people posting the pic.
PurpleGirl
@kindness: Anything is okay at a teabagger rally, even (or maybe especially) openly carrying a gun.
Shinobi
@RP: There is also a man on the scooter while it is on his leg, for several seconds. The man probably weighs as much as the scooter, so, X2 that, plus vehicular motion, I think that could definitely break your leg.
beltane
@Shinobi: Yeah, it’s the cop sitting on the bike while a human being is pinned under it is what bothers me more than the circumstances of how the person’s leg got there in the first place. It is sadism pure and simple.
cleek
@jl:
take away all the speculation here, and what does that leave?
not much.
Shinobi
@beltane: The whole time I was watching it I was thinking “HOW DOES HE NOT SEE THE GUY UNDER HIS SCOOTER.” And then I realized he probably did, and was just the biggest asshole on the planet.
pragmatism
@piratedan: haven’t thought about that movie in a long time. thanks for that.
Loneoak
I can’t believe some of you would argue that you could entrap the police into running you over and beating you, let alone think that is more likely than a NYPD cop acting like a fucking ganster toward protesters. That’s Red State level willful ignorance.
trollhattan
At the risk of repeating myself, repeating myself from another thread:
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/10/nypd_clashes_with_protesters_c.html
Guy is IDd in the piece as “Ari Douglas, a volunteer legal observer for the National Lawyers Guild.”
cleek
@Loneoak:
seriously? you don’t think it’d be possible to annoy a cop into parking his bike on your foot? and then, if you kick his bike over, that he wouldn’t go apeshit on you? really?
(which is not to say that’s what happened here)
Rufus King
@kindness: Maybe you never saw the cops treat anyone that way at a Tea Party event because the Tea Party folks obey the laws and respect the cops. Maybe you didn’t hear the cop’s horn beeping at the guy? He decided to put his body in harm’s way by standing in front of the bike, and the cop just kept driving. Face it, the cop had the right of way!
Xenos
@Canuckistani Tom: The National Lawyers Guild was founded back in the 1930s when the American Bar Association would not allow Black lawyers or Jewish Lawyers to join. The title may sound a little silly now, but they have played an important role in American history. And may continue to do so.
jl
@cleek: I for one gladly admit to being irresponsible.
Lysana
I’m seeing more and more reasons to never grace NYC with my tourist dollars once I have any again. I’ll take my chances with LAPD incompetence over NYPD sadism.
Joey Maloney
[email protected]RP:
ORLY? Hard to tell the model from that video, but even my 400cc Yamaha had a dry weight of nearly 400 pounds. A big cop hog is going to be north of 500, and that’s still excluding all the fluids plus any extra cop equipment. Plus the rider and you’re at 750ish easy. You want even half that weight on a couple square inches of your lower leg?
different-church-lady
@kindness:
Because they all have to get on the bus and go home each night to take their meds.
PurpleGirl
Was the man ever taken to a hospital to have his ankle/leg checked for bruises or being broken?
jl
@Joey Maloney:
Or running into you, even at only 5 or 10 mph?
Loneoak
@cleek:
Um, ‘annoy a cop into parking his bike on your foot’ is a rather innocuous way of putting it. That is thug behavior: take any provocation to exercise the fullest of your power. Cops are supposed to be even-keeled and not easily provoked by people not actually posing a threat. But somehow we have developed a sense that cops are empowered to act with violence toward ‘annoyances.’
And, yes, I do believe it is crazy to imagine that someone, especially a legal observer, would entrap a cop like this. I’ll happily eat my words and admit I’m wrong if anyone other than the police spox and NY Daily News provides evidence than this is what happened.
Morbo
@trollhattan: Wonder how much he plans to sue the NYPD for.
Xenos
@cleek: That was not an NLG observer. That looked like a member of an Italian soccer team.
But even if it was a stunt, beating up the guy was a bit much.
trollhattan
@Lysana:
Have to say, they’ve had weeks to reevaluate and recast their approach to OWS. If this is NYPD on their “best behavior” I don’t want any part of them.
John O
@cleek:
Concur. Plus, I think you could yank your leg out from underneath even a motorcycle tire with the no doubt present amounts of adrenaline. There was some acting involved in my judgement of the video.
At least they’re smart enough to know that provoking the police is good TV. But wouldn’t it be a better strategy to try to talk the police into joining the party? They’re going to get hurt by the GOP, too.
John O
@cleek:
Concur. Plus, I think you could yank your leg out from underneath even a motorcycle tire with the no doubt present amounts of adrenaline. There was some acting involved in my judgement of the video.
At least they’re smart enough to know that provoking the police is good TV. But wouldn’t it be a better strategy to try to talk the police into joining the party? They’re going to get hurt by the GOP, too.
James Hare
Guy got arrested too.
KG
@kindness: because the Tea Partiers brought semi-automatic weapons to their demonstrations.
EconWatcher
@Xenos:
I remember several of the Guild types from law school as wearing Mao hats (dark blue with the little red star). And this wasn’t in the 60s, this was in the late 80s.
“And if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow.”
Culture of Truth
Did they arrest him just because the cop hit him, or was there another reason?
Joey Maloney
@jl: I am constantly amazed at how incompletely people appreciate the simple equation p=mv, especially as it applies to their meatbags.
dr. bloor
@Lysana:
Say hello to Rodney King for me.
James Hare
@kindness: the TeaBaggers are riding the scooters.
James Hare
@kindness: the TeaBaggers are riding the scooters.
Daveboy
What the fuck? John O, you dolt. Adrenaline doesn’t change the laws of physics. 500 pounds of pressure on your leg is not going to allow you the LEVERAGE to pull your leg out. I don’t know if you know this but rubber tires have a very high coefficient of friction, and will not let you easily slide the leg out, regardless of “adrenaline” (which is apparently code for “super strength juice” now).
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@kindness:
Have you ever tried running your scooter up and over a fully loaded Hoveround? Even with a mountain bike it wouldn’t be easy. That’s some serious hill climbing we’re talking about.
Politically Lost
@RP: Well, that scooter weighs at least 300lbs if not more. On scooters the motor and clutch assembly is directly attached to the rear wheel. With a hefty cop on top of it we could probably come close to double that. Don’t think that would hurt? Especially if the weight was directed on a patch of your ankle no bigger than a fifty cent piece.
Culture of Truth
Tiny bike like that? No doubt, especially if he was doin’ the Dew.
FuzzyWuzzy
@cleek: Reeeeally?
How convenient you would have been at the Rodney King trial. ” That ni- I mean, that man there kept putting his head in front of where the policeman was swinging his little stick. The funniest thing!”
At least, that’s how it looks to me.
Comrade Mary
From what I can see across both videos, I think the bike ran over him with the front wheel, but when the cop rolls on, the back wheel is definitely on it and stays there for several seconds until they knock the bike over and grab him. From the way one observer was freaking out and yelling as well, I don’t think it was some carefully planned collusion, but someone RIGHT THERE seeing that the back wheel was on the foot/leg (and, maybe, the front wheel running over it a few seconds earlier).
Culture of Truth
“Paul J. Browne, the police department’s chief spokesman, said the police were still reviewing the situation. He warned against drawing overarching conclusions from short snippets of videotape.”
Browne probably has that on his answering machine by now.
John O
@Daveboy:
I’m no motorcycle expert but I got my pant leg caught by a car tire wheel once and wedged it loose with lots of fear before the fabric even gave.
Watch it again. I see soccer-player drama. How does the protestor not get out of the way with the bike going that slow in the first place?
Look, I’m on this guy’s side in a big way.
Comrade Mary
@FuzzyWuzzy: It’s one thing to honestly see things differently; it’s another to accuse someone of racism for no good reason. Cut that shit out.
Shinobi
@John O: Perhaps you would volunteer to demonstrate this leg pulling for us. We could borrow my coworker’s scooter. I’m sure he’d be happy to run over your leg so you can demonstrate how not painful and easily escaped it is for all of us.
Perhaps later you would like to show us how fun waterboarding can be?
AMD
WTF? Adrenaline *might* explain how the bike got knocked over (if, say, he kicked at it with the other leg), but adrenaline doesn’t give you the ability to yank your leg out from under the wheel of a scooter like a magician doing the tablecloth/dishes trick.
Cris (without an H)
I that that was PCP
Tim in SF
I can just feel my blood pressure shooting up watching those pigs.
John O
@Shinobi:
OK, OK, it’s totally on the up and up, and the protestor somehow got in the way of a scooter moving at <5mph and got caught underneath it through no fault of his own and was unable to extricate himself in excruciating pain. Christ.
I just don't see it that way when I watch the video.
AuldBlackJack
A Piaggio BV200 scooters’ weight is 360 pounds. Add a 200+ pound barnyard animal in an NYPD uniform….. that had to hurt.
I say this video adds another 10 sympathy points to the next poll measuring OWS’s favorability.
Shinobi
@John O: If he was a civilian he’d be brought up on charges for this, EVEN IF IT WAS INTENTIONAL.
I also question your understanding of how people react to extreme physical pain. It’s not as easy as looking at a video. (To that end I will say that maybe the cop in question didn’t realize he’d just ridden over someone’s leg)
Cermet
From that image can’t really tell what happened – maybe the person didn’t remove their legs, maybe put them in, and maybe the Cop ran over him. This said, why are the cops arresting the man? That is over the top and makes no sense unless the cops are attempting to harm people illegally.
I’ve driven heavy bikes and there is zero chance I’d run over someone’s leg and not know it – that is bull shit.
John O
@Shinobi:
You’re on a scooter! You damn well know when one of the tires is resting on someone’s leg! You’d know it in a car unless you were a clueless driver.
*sigh* I’m not a fan of the NYPD, nor the Yankees, and I love OWS from the beginning (I’m a member of wearethe99%) but *I* don’t get my leg caught under a scooter moving at that speed unless I don’t care if it happens.
Shinobi
@John O: Well if I’m a police officer I don’t drive over someone’s fucking leg unless I want to.
I don’t see how the protester can be responsible for this without the police officer also being responsible. If he knows there is a dude under his scooter then WTF IS HE DOING SITTING ON THE GUYs scooter. If he sees the guy on the ground, WHY DOES HE KEEP DRIVING.
The whole scenario is ridiculous, but I don’t see why we should be blaming the guy who got his leg run over and the crap kicked out of him, and not blaming the cop with the scooter and the baton.
John O
I’m certainly not blaming ANYONE. I’m trying to get across what I see from as empathetic a place as I can put myself. Sorry if that includes the cop.
Go OWS.
Bullsmith
If you assume the guy’s not injured when the video starts, then you can see him as staging the whole event, because he’s lying on the ground screaming instead of trying to avoid the scooter, including moving his leg toward the rear wheel as the cop parks instead of out of the way.
On the other hand, if you assume he’s already been hurt by the time he’s caught on video, and he’s lying on the ground and screaming in pain because he’s in pain because his foot got crushed (or perhaps more likely caught and twisted under the scooter) then his actions make sense. I see the video this way, myself.
However, either way, what the hell is the cop doing slowly rolling over him? What are they doing beating him up? Why is he charged with something other than lying down and wailing? Why are the crowd yelling at the cop as if he actually ran over the guy, instead of acting confused as to why a guy would stick himself under a moving vehicle? Why are the cops hauling someone else out of the crowd and arresting him too? We can hear the audio, is it cause he’s saying “You ran over his foot” over and over again?
Occam’s razor says some asshole cop ran over the guy’s foot. He sure didn’t try not to. And then they beat him up and arrested him. Even those defending the NYPD here (sorry, not here so much, MSM comments in droves though) can’t explain what the guy’s charged with? Resisting resist by what, moaning?
Amir Khalid
@PeakVT:
Tony Baloney’s under investigation by Internal Affairs, according to the commish. No updates must mean that the investigation is still going on.
I’m not going to look at the video, because I was the recent victim of an accident not unlike what happens in it.
Keith
File this one under “Don’t tread on me.”
cleek
@Comrade Mary:
no no. i’ve questioned the narrative. i must be slapped down.
Keith G
*Bullsmith: Indeed. You typed what I was considering. I do not know why Cleek and John are latching to the most truncated explanation.
The Vimeo link shows scooter cop moving quickly in the initial roll up . There may have been a jostle in that scrum and guy the was not able to be clear of the path of officer ‘Ponch’ Poncherello. The crowd is certainly not reacting as if the civilian just did a hook slide.
edited
Bago
@Keith: A literal application of the Gadsden flag.
Keith G
@Comrade Mary: Please explain how that bit of literary silliness is accusing anyone of racism. It sure does not seem to.
goblue72
I may need to renew my NLG membership. When I was a Guild member in law school, we definitely had some openly Communist members, quite a few Socialists, and a bunch of New New Left types. As a Liberal, I was the most conservative guy in the room. On the other hand, the Guild was the only group that actually had people volunteering warm bodies to protect the Constitutional rights of progressive activists. The student ACLU types were too busy having bake sales.
jeff
@cleek:
Cleek, please do keep giving your unedited opinion. I am not cool with the reactions to your opinion about the incident. I don’t trust my ability to tell what happened based on the video…but,either way, one is not “the enemy” because of questioning what occurred.
John M. Burt
I was sure it would turn out to be a wild exaggeration.
I watched it. It wasn’t.
gocart mozart
A surprising number of fascist bootlickers in this comment section.
wrb
Not having watched the video but having skimmed the comments this is sounding like a near perfect Rorschach: who do you distrust more- police, protesters or lawyers?
If only it had a mormon and a fatty.
goblue72
I may need to renew my NLG membership. When I was a Guild member in law school, we definitely had some openly Communist members, quite a few So-shul-ists, and a bunch of New New Left types. As a Liberal, I was the most conservative guy in the room. On the other hand, the Guild was the only group that actually had people volunteering warm bodies to protect the Constitutional rights of progressive activists. The student ACLU types were too busy having bake sales.
jl
Radio news report says the dude went to emergency room after he was arrested. So we will find out what the injuries were and whether he was faking.
I still think if the motorcycle kneecapped the guy, for example, he could be in quite a bit of pain even it was moving at a slow speed.
Comrade Mary
@Keith G: I’ve bolded what seems relevant:
So, all in one paragraph, cleek’s cautiously skeptical take on the video (and it is a dog’s breakfast of a video, so I fully believe that someone can view it differently in good faith without being a racist, a troll or a fascist bootlicker) means that someone can wade in hear and tell us that he would have been a useful, coldblooded, racist witness for the prosecution at Rodney King’s trial.
And yeah, I KNOW it was a “bit of literary silliness”, and that Fuzzy Wuzzy didn’t claim that cleek had actually testified in the trial or that he ever actually ever used the word “nigger” or apologized for cop brutality. My, he didn’t even spell out the word “nigger”, did he?
He just concluded from cleek’s words here that, hypothetically, if cleek had been a witness to the King beating, that cleek would have testified as written: blind, enabling, blaming the victim and racist.
I usually just walk away when people throw shit at each other in the comments. I’m old-fashioned enough to look at a comment section as a community, not a piece of performance art, but it seems like more and more people here differ. Fine.
But when the usual kneejerk Obot/bootlicker/PUMA/Repug/paid Koch operative invective gets turbo-charged by ascribing the use of the word “nigger” (and an attitude that a black man getting beat up is funny and all his fault) to a well-respected, longtime member of the commentariat, I’m going to call that shit out.
polyorchnid octopunch
I watched the vimeo video. Sorry, the cop totally nailed that guy, and he did it on purpose. cleek, go watch it if you don’t believe it.
delphi_ote
Does anyone:
a) See the man get struck by the scooter?
b) See the man’s leg get run over by the scooter?
c) See the man get hit by the police officers?
I’m really skeptical. These videos are just not that great. Thankfully, there should be tons of photos. Would a cop really strike him, then run him over with that many cameras rolling? If so, Jesus Christ this is the worst and dumbest episode of police brutality ever. Having the scooter roll over your calf would hurt like a son of a bitch.
But we cringe because we THINK that’s what we’re seeing. If you watch it closely, is that really what you’re seeing? Mute the video. Try to find a moment when you’re sure the scooter is ON him or you’re sure he’s struck by the scooter. I’m just not satisfied that this is bulletproof.
Does know where I can find more photos?
delphi_ote
@polyorchnid octopunch: Can you give a time stamp of when in the video you see him getting hit (minute and second?) I’m asking to know, not challenging you. I just can’t actually see him getting hit.
If he was hit, I’m going to be one angry mother fucker. But I want to be sure of what happened before flying off the handle.
suzanne
I posted this morning about a photo I saw of this incident.
Shades of Tianamen.
LiberalTarian
Apparently the guy had the bad luck of falling when his cuff got stuck on the foot rest. He had every right to be there, just like any member of the protest or passers by or the media. What I found horrifying was that most of the people who were right there and could have done something were too busy getting the action shot to do anything.
Soccer drama? Ya ever had your ankle crushed?? He’s going to know well in advance when it’s going to rain.
Yeah, Cleek, I am disappointed in the rush to call the situation from the scant footage available. Next you’ll be protesting the removal of feeding tubes. “but she looks so present!”
polyorchnid octopunch
@delphi_ote: Ever heard of Occam’s Razor?
delphi_ote
And no, I don’t trust lawyers, protestors, or police. Just because we’re on the same side doesn’t mean I take your word for it.
Blind trust is a trap:
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/23/confirmation-bias/
joes527
@polyorchnid octopunch: I watched the vimeo video too. This is what I saw:
The cop came toward the crowd hot, but slowed down to a virtual stop as he entered the crowd.
You can’t see the front of the scooter during the last bit of deceleration. Did he hit the guy and that’s what stopped the scooter? Did he decelerate to a stop and tap the him? It just isn’t on the tape. All you see is the scooter slowing to a stop as it enters the crowd and then the camera shifts to show the guy on the ground.
You can CLEARLY see both legs completely free of the scooter before the cop got off. He swung his leg back under the scooter after it stopped moving. Was he writhing in pain and the leg just went where it went? or was he trying to draw the foul? The video doesn’t answer this question.
The guy was either in agonizing pain or he is a really bad actor. If the report from the hospital is crushed foot – amputation required, then it is pretty clear that he was screaming and writhing in pain. If the report comes back: slight bruising, then he needs to take acting lessons and learn to dial it back a bit.
As for the whole beating up thing. Yeah – that’s fucked up no matter how you look at it.
AMD
Did anyone actually see Tony Baloney pepper spray that woman? I’m really skeptical. Would a cop really strike do that with that many cameras rolling? If so, Jesus Christ that was the worst and dumbest episode of police brutality ever.
delphi_ote
@polyorchnid octopunch: Yes. But Occam’s Razor states that the simplest hypothesis, not the one I expect to be true, is the one to go with. Your version is “called confirmation bias.”
I’m not going to jump to conclusions because it supports my views. I know police officers can be stupid and brutal. But I also know protestors intentionally make situations look more dramatic than they are to get attention. I don’t have any direct evidence to distinguish between those two possibilities yet.
I’d very much like to see something clinching.
But think about something. Look at the number of people in this thread who claim the man was beaten with a nightstick. Then go read the reports of witnesses. None that I have found, even the sympathetic ones, claim he was beaten. Are we seeing what we EXPECT or what is THERE?
delphi_ote
@AMD: Yes. And people could point me to the exact timestamp when it happened if I’d asked. Mysteriously, people here seem to be wasting a lot of time on nonsense parodies that COULD be spent explaining what they’re basing their conclusions on.
delphi_ote
@joes527: “As for the whole beating up thing. Yeah – that’s fucked up no matter how you look at it.”
But was he beat up? None of the witnesses seem to claim that, and again, I can’t see him getting hit. Do you see it? If so, by all means point it out to me. Hitting a guy who’s down, even if he WAS acting, is terrible.
And I really appreciate your caution and critical thinking. Again, if a cop ran a dude over, we need to KNOW that shit and we need to start yelling about it. But if we’re getting faked out, it’s going to undermine the whole movement’s credibility if we’re not the first to cry foul.
AMD
At about :12 seconds on the YouTube video, you see the cop roll over him. Then you see the cop get off the scooter while the back tire is ON his leg.
tkogrumpy
@Canuckistani Tom: No.
shecky
I can’t tell how the guy ended up on the ground, but it does look like soccer drama when the cop supposedly parks the bike on his leg. It appears the guy’s leg is ahead of the rear tire, and unlikely the bike could have been parked with the tire on the guy’s leg. In the vimeo link, the guy’s legs were clearly out of the way before coming near the rear tire. There doesn’t seem to be a clear shot of the guy’s leg getting run over by the front tire. It’s possible, but no immediate indication the bike rolled over a large bump.
It’s possible the guy’s leg ended up under the bike one way or another and more or less trapped, possibly against the exhaust pipe. But it doesn’t look like it was under the rear tire.
delphi_ote
Thanks for pointing that out AMD. I’m still not sure it is ON his leg, but I will keep looking and comparing videos.
I really hope we get a medical report. That would be a slam dunk.
AMD
I’ll say this: if that rear tire was not on his leg/foot, that is quite an optical illusion.
If he didn’t park on the guy’s leg, the officer still handled the situation very poorly. Even the Daily News photographer who says the guy faked getting run over says the cop did hit him with the scooter. The officer should have backed up and dismounted immediately.
shecky
There’s evidence the cop was being a dick. But the guy’s leg doesn’t look like it’s under the rear tire. From about the :12-:20 second mark, the guy’s leg is clearly not under the rear tire, but immediately ahead of it. The cop puts down the side stand while the guy’s foot is under the bike. Furthermore, if the tire was resting on the guy’s leg, it’s unlikely the cop could have parked the bike at all, and had he tried, it would have probably fallen on the guy.
On the vimeo clip, you can see both the guy’s legs are clear of the tires and bike around the :25-:26 second mark. The bike doesn’t seem to advance far at that point. Maybe a foot or two at the most. But certainly not enough to have steered the rear wheel over the guy’s leg. So I’m saying he must have kicked his foot under the bike around the time it stopped. Perhaps that’s the reason the cop stopped. Cop puts down side stand, dismounts bike, appearing to try dispersing the crowd and bike ends up falling away from guy onto the ground. I’m thinking he kicked it over, which undoubtedly got the cop’s attention.
It’s not clear how the guy ended up on the ground. But it seems difficult to believe the cop parked the rear tire on the guy’s leg/foot or that he even steered his bike such that the guy’s foot ended up under the bike.
Patrick Lightbody
OK, so there’s plenty of reason to support OWS, but this ain’t one of them. Both those videos are embarrassing. Let’s protest on substance, not some trumped up acting because a scooter _might_ have nicked you.
Not excusing the way the police responded to this baby, but I really don’t want to rally around some screaming idiot trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
I’d hope we could at least have a few more man-points than the Tea Party left after it’s all said and done, yes?
gocart mozart
Why did that Soros funded thug have to face-butt that nice policeman in the fist so hard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxZ8_JdKm0Q&feature=youtu.be
Patrick Lightbody
@gocart mozart: Now _that’s_ a much better video to rally around – though I could do without that screaming voice!
gocart mozart
Here is a different video of the same (first) incident which continues shortly before the last left off. It includes the arrest. Can’t quite see if he was on PCP or lunged at the officers though so please feel free to maintain your reasonable doubt.
http://gothamist.com/2011/10/14/video_nypd_scooter_runs_over_nation.php
shecky
Those two clips on the gothamist are the same two linked here (vimeo clip and the youtube OurNeedToAwaken clip). Still not convincing. Sorry, but Occam’s razor points to drama queen. The really fucked up thing here is that Malkin and the OTB boys will be looking right about this incident. Good going, Ari Douglas. Keep these antics up and OWS will rightly be written off as Teabaggers West.
gocart mozart
Occam’s Razor says the cops were fucking dicks. You Shecky have a pro-authoritarian mindset. Do you justify the punch in the face @115 also?
delphi_ote
No. Occam’s razor has nothing to say here. We don’t have enough evidence to make conclusions in either direction. No matter how many times I’ve watched these videos, I still can’t tell what’s going on. If we’re honest with ourselves, I don’t think any of us can.
We need more data to make a conclusion. We should wait until we know and get angry about the RIGHT thing.
delphi_ote
@gocart mozart:
What the fuck was that cop thinking?! Not only is throwing a punch like that at a citizen obviously wrong on every level, he’s also inciting a very large crowd! Even those people dumb enough to think “Sometimes you gotta crack hippie skulls once in a while to keep the peace”, should still see this is a catastrophic failure!
As soon as you start open acts of brazen violence, you’re just tapping directly in to the lizard brain of everyone around you. That’s such an easy way for a situation to get out of control really fast. He should be very thankful the protestors and some of the other police officers around him had cooler heads.
And God… I can’t imagine what kind of damage he was going to dish out on to a protestor ALREADY ON THE GROUND.
Xenos
@delphi_ote:
This is the whole damn point. Protesters and the blues face off, then the white shirts wade in, start swinging sticks, inciting the riot so the blue shirts can clear the premises.
The supervisors clearly have instructions to escalate the conflict in order to resolve it with a nice refreshing round of head-breaking. Who is giving them these instructions? Hint: a local billionaire whose name ends in ‘erg’. Who he is receiving instructions from is anyone’s guess. But you don’t need too many guesses.
shecky
Pointing to the punch in the face clip is a nice diversion, but lends no credence or relation to the supposed motorcycle incident. I’ll bet that makes me an authoritarian.
We can’t tell how the guy ended up on the ground. But it seems very unlikely that the cop could have run over Douglas’s leg with the rear tire and parked it there. The video evidence says both legs were never in the path of the rear tire until the cop had stopped.
More footage: At about 2:42 you can see that both of the legs were not in the path of the bike. It appears the cop was going to keep moving at which point Douglas’s leg mysteriously found itself in the path of the rear wheel. Which prompts the cop to stop, and even back up a bit as he dismounts the bike. The bike never ran over his leg with the rear wheel, let alone parked on his leg. And as I suspected in an earlier post, Douglas kicked the bike over, which really got the cop’s attention.
Surly that video means I’m an authoritarian, too.
Maybe Douglas was hit and knocked down by the cop, and while writhing in pain, kicked his foot under the bike. But the cop didn’t run over his leg with the rear tire, and didn’t park on his leg. Face it. Douglas appears to have been hamming it up, and got spanked hard for his effort.
serena1313
It seems that many of you question the validity of the incident — as you should — nevertheless the guy is a legal observer. He is one of many from the National Lawyers Guild whose job is to monitor the situation, not protest. They wear green caps so the police can easily distinguish them from the protesters. Although in this particular video it is difficult to see the guy’s cap, there are other videos where you can clearly see it laying on the street next to him.
Granted it is difficult to know what happened exactly, however, I think it would be prudent to wait until we know the all the facts before we assign blame. I do not know if the cop ran the guy over, or he lost his balance and fell, or what exactly. But what we do know is that the cop got off his motorcycle with the rear wheel parked on the guy’s leg. While he is laying there pinned under the weight of 300 to 600 pounds (depending on the size of the engine) screaming & writhing in pain, the policeman turned and walked away. That was intentional. And at the very least, personally I believe the cop should be disciplined for reckless endangerment. Anything other than that is pure speculation at this point.
Furthermore given that he is the 2nd legal observer to be involved in some sort of an altercation with the NYP, then there is reason to question whether there are more incidents yet to be discovered. If so that could change the dynamic of the story.
In the interim jumping to conclusions or speculating is not going to get us any closer to the truth.
David in NY
He’s still in the hospital for chrissake. You know how seriously you have to be injured to be kept hospitalized for this long? Very. And if you know anything about the professionalism of the NLG in these circumstances (well beyond that of the NYPD, whose abusive tactics, not to say out-and-out corruption have been on display for some time, now), you know how unlikely it is that this guy injured himself badly as a ruse.
Maybe the cop just ran him over by accident, but if so, why the big cover-up, huh?
Ed: On professionalism, recent court proceedings have revealed that cops routinely fill “arrest quota” by planting drugs on people and arresting them. New York’s finest assholes, is what they are looking like these days.
shecky
Ari Douglas is bullshitting us. Another video shows Douglas trying to place his left foot under the front wheel of the bike while on the ground and screaming. Before trying to stick his right foot under the rear wheel. The rear wheel was not parked on the guy’s leg. That is clear in the footage shown in my post #123. And as I posted earlier, it’s very unlikely the bike could have been parked with the wheel on the guy’s leg without falling over immediately, most likely on him.
There are two photos of the incident from a sympathetic source that describe the cop running over Douglas’s feet. Yet the photos don’t show the wheel over the his feet at all, and makes one wonder why his left foot is in front of the bike’s front wheel.
The video and photos don’t substantiate the claim of Douglas’s leg getting run over and parked on. That he’s supposedly still in the hospital as a result of being run over seems like an unsubstantiated claim, and in light of the evidence we can see, unlikely. The professionalism of the NLG isn’t the issue here. The professionalism of Ari Douglas is. Stop trying to make Douglas into some kind of an innocent party wronged by gross police vehicular assault until we it can be verified completely. Because it’s looking like bullshit.