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You are here: Home / Sports / Dead as fried chicken

Dead as fried chicken

by DougJ|  October 17, 20114:28 pm| 105 Comments

This post is in: Sports

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I am a lifelong Red Sox fan. I used to be pretty hard-core, I remember the 1978 play-off game like it was yesterday. Nowadays, I dislike the structure of Major League Baseball, in particular the lack of a level playing field and the too-long play-off system, so much that I can’t get *that* into it all anymore.

One of the bizarre things about many Red Sox fans is the extent to which they focus on the non-baseball aspects of the game. By that, I mean the players’ facial hair, where the players live, how the players dress, where the manager goes to bet on the puppies (Zimmer era), and so on. In August, 2004, my uncle told me that year’s team would never go anywhere since they had too much long hair, too many beards, and not enough guys who wore suits on team flights; they ought to have rules about this, the way the Yankees do, that was the best thing Steinbrenner ever did. A few seasons later he told me that they were going nowhere because they were too uptight, too clean cut, and that didn’t give them the loosey-goosey attitude you need to come back when you’re behind in the late innings.

Apparently, the reason the Red Sox collapsed this year is that the pitchers were allowed to eat fried chicken in the clubhouse during the games when they weren’t pitching.

There’s something about all of this, the things the press picks on, that reminds me a lot of politics.

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105Comments

  1. 1.

    slag

    October 17, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Maybe this is related to that stadium curse issue. Or is that the Yankees?

  2. 2.

    different-church-lady

    October 17, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    The amazing thing about Boston sports scene is that weeks later more people would rather talk about the stupid aspects of Red Sox drama than want to talk about the work of art that two-minute Tom and the Patriots created at the end of the game 21 hours ago.

  3. 3.

    Martin

    October 17, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    If they’d eaten pizza, they’d have been branded patriots, earned 9 runs in the bottom of the 9th of every game and thrown 9 strikes in the top of the inning. Losers.

    And FTFY!

  4. 4.

    Redshift

    October 17, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    There’s a great anthropology paper called “Baseball Magic” that compares superstitious rituals in baseball to those of Polynesian fisherman. The upshot of it is that in both cases, “magic” is used to influence events that are heavily based on luck (deep-sea fishing, hitting) and not for events that are almost entirely skill (shallow-water fishing, fielding.)

    Fans have no influence over anything their favorite team does, so it’s not surprising to find superstitious explanations for almost anything.

  5. 5.

    Martin

    October 17, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    The amazing thing about Boston sports scene is that weeks later more people would rather talk about the stupid aspects of Red Sox drama than want to talk about the work of art that two-minute Tom and the Patriots created at the end of the game 21 hours ago.

    I don’t think we need to drag Tom Brady’s sex life into this discussion.

  6. 6.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    So true. OTOH, it’s a baseball town, not a football one.

  7. 7.

    theBuhjaysus

    October 17, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    As a Cubs’ fan, all I can say is that I’m more than willing to see if Theo can help bring another cursed franchise a title. I was suprised at all the venom aimed at Tito and Theo by Red Sox fans. I figured those guys would get a lifetime pass. I guess not.

    Anyway, Beantown has had enough success in the last 10 years.

  8. 8.

    slag

    October 17, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    @different-church-lady: Give DougJ a break. At least he’s trying to make a connection between his fanaticism and politics. Unlike some others who just indulge.

  9. 9.

    cathyx

    October 17, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Well fried chicken is fattening. It would have been better if it was grilled or roasted.

  10. 10.

    redshirt

    October 17, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    I always laugh when Boston sports radio and the callers in fixate on salary issues. What does it matter? Would you rather the team does not spend money?

    This has been a perfect example of the inherent cynicism in New England – everything the “fans” are demanind now, they’ll be against in a couple of years when everything’s gone to crap.

  11. 11.

    Linkmeister

    October 17, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    I think it was the Red Sox about whom it was once said “25 players, 25 cabs” to describe the team’s behavior following a home game. In other words, not a team at all.

    I’m sure that’s changed some; I think that was written about them in the 1970s.

  12. 12.

    Joseph Nobles

    October 17, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    @Redshift: How much political horse-race coverage can be seen as feeding the same superstitious drive for control over the process? Very interesting comparison that Doug made there, I think you’d agree.

  13. 13.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    @Linkmeister:

    Yup, from the 70s.

    Baseball isn’t really a team sport, though, anyway.

  14. 14.

    The Moar You Know

    October 17, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    There’s something about all of this, the things the press picks on, that reminds me a lot of politics.

    It’s the slobbering fellatio and hagiography of those who are considered famous and powerful. Truth is, there’s no difference in how the media treats sports or politics. They are both sideshows to distract the rubes from how their betters have decided to run their lives for them.

  15. 15.

    Cat Lady

    October 17, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Hoooo boy. Friedchickengate has taken over my radio, and as a life long Red Sox fan also too, I’m enjoying every minute of it. The whole team turned into JD Drew, and whined all summer about their schedule. The whole starting rotation got fat, and if you had never seen a picture of them before September, you would never guess in a million years these were athletes. I know pitchers can be fat, but these guys got FAT during the season. Unlike Chris Christie who can govern while fat, getting through 6+ innings carrying 20 extra pounds, at least, not so much.

    And John Henry is an ass.

  16. 16.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    @Redshift:

    A friend of mine who is a baseball player has a very interesting take on this: he says that in baseball failure is so much part of the game (since the best teams still lose 4 out of ten, the best hitters only get a hit one of out three, etc.) that there is a psychological need to blame the failure on a larger force. Hence, lots of superstition.

  17. 17.

    Redshift

    October 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    @Joseph Nobles: I agree, I realized just after I hit Submit that there was a connection to be made there. Especially considering that many in the political press plainly think of themselves as important to the process but also talk about how narratives could develop and such, pretending that it just happens without their involvement.

  18. 18.

    redshirt

    October 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I blame Carl Crawford for everything.

  19. 19.

    handy

    October 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    @theBuhjaysus:

    Here here.

    One of the bizarre things about many Red Sox fans is the extent to which they focus on the non-baseball aspects of the game.

    Honestly this part surprises me (not the kvetching–I get that). In my experience Red Sox fans seems to be more dialed into reality than most. They don’t typical settle their analysis on “our pitcher is greatest he is going to shut you guys down why because he is our guy” stuff, but go deeper.

    I mean, it’s pretty clear if you pay attention to these things why the Sox have had great success the past ten years, and it’s for the same reasons any franchise is able to string together good seasons.

    Then again I had a buddy who thought when they let Johnny Damon go the Red Sox were doomed because he was their “heart.” I guess no one is immune.

  20. 20.

    Jewish Steel

    October 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    League-wide hero and all around nice-guy, A. J. Pierzynski (“His own family boos him when he comes into the backyard,” quoth Ozzie) confessed to having rally beers in late innings to loosen up.

    White Sox nation wasn’t terribly upset, most comments that I read were along the lines of, “You couldn’t pay me to watch this team sober. Who could blame him?”

  21. 21.

    Jim C

    October 17, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    @Linkmeister:
    They used to say that about the Bradley-Reed-Frazier era Knicks, too.

  22. 22.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 17, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Why does everybody hate the Yankees? Is it because they always win?
    Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about baseball.

  23. 23.

    Redshift

    October 17, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    @Dougerhead: That’s another way to look at it. I don’t watch a lot of baseball, but when I do, it’s a fun game to watch what the hitters do and try to guess which tics are rituals.

  24. 24.

    redshirt

    October 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Yes. And they often suck. Usually suck, in fact – in the abstract, conceptual sense.

  25. 25.

    BGinCHI

    October 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Based on the season they had, the Cubs pitchers ought to have tried eating fried chicken while they were pitching.

    It couldn’t have hurt.

  26. 26.

    PeakVT

    October 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    in particular the lack of a level playing field and the too-long play-off system

    And the too-long season.

    At least the league has its own farm system.

  27. 27.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    @handy:

    It’s very bifurcated. You’ve got all the baseball nerds who read SoxProspects.com, then you’ve got the people who listen to sports radio.

  28. 28.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    @redshirt: How can they win and suck at the same time. Me thinks, people are just jealous.

  29. 29.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    October 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    http://www.thearchnemesis.com/whyhateyankees.html

    To quote the late, great Steve Gilliard:

    “Fuck the fucking Yankees”

    Words to live by.

  30. 30.

    Captain Goto

    October 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    I just got done reading “Clemente” by David Maraniss; one of my take-aways was that reporters have ALWAYS been, to a great extent, full of shit.

    A great read besides. He actually dug into the Nixon tapes and covered Nixon’s dealings with Somoza and Howard Hughes (who was in Managua at the time of the earthquake, the one that Clemente died in trying to deliver relief supplies for).

    He also gleefully disses the Red Sox for being the last team to integrate (a fact I wasn’t aware of).

  31. 31.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Mostly that. Also, Steinbrenner was a real prick.

  32. 32.

    BGinCHI

    October 17, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    @PeakVT: Apparently the Red Sox AA franchise is a Popeye’s Chicken.

  33. 33.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    October 17, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Ten more reasons to hate the Yankees:

    http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/twocents/content/10-reasons-hate-yankees

  34. 34.

    handy

    October 17, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Oh BTW Go Ranger! (No a fan, just–can’t stand the Cards)

  35. 35.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    @Captain Goto:

    What bothers me is that so many lack interest in the game itself. They just want to blab about who did what in the clubhouse.

  36. 36.

    geg6

    October 17, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Well, all I know is that Pittsburgh would be thrilled to get a Theo Epstein and/or a Terry Francona (especially since Terry is a native son and all). Looks like Chicago got one, sadly. And that is the one we could use the most–in the front office.

  37. 37.

    Corner Stone

    October 17, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    @Redshift:

    That’s another way to look at it. I don’t watch a lot of baseball, but when I do, it’s a fun game to watch what the hitters do and try to guess which tics are rituals.

    For a hitter, everything is a ritual. And it just culminates at the plate, it starts the night before or the night before that or the night before that, etc, depending on how they’re doing.
    They wear the same socks, without washing, while on a streak. They leave their pant legs at a certain height if they did well one game. They make their girlfriend/spouse sit in a certain seat, or not attend a game at all, depending on outcomes.
    I played baseball through high school, and my best friend went on and played for the Cleveland Indians organization. I went to three games he was playing in and in the third one he hit a homerun. He told me he was glad he hit one because if he hadn’t he was going to ask me to not come to the next series. Not sit in the stands because it somehow effected his turns at the plate.
    The weird thing was I completely agreed with him.
    Not sure who is more superstitious, baseball players or golfers.

  38. 38.

    Turgidson

    October 17, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    I thought Zambrano tried that at some point. But then he got mad and threw the drumstick at the ump…or was it his coach? Either way, it didn’t help.

    But let’s leave Matt Garza out of jokes about the Cubs pitching staff. Guy would have been a 15-game winner easily if he’d had any run support at all.

  39. 39.

    dmsilev

    October 17, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    @BGinCHI: I’m pretty sure the Cubs rotation would have had better luck if they’d thrown the chicken instead of a ball.

    Or, at the very least, there’s no way it could have been any worse.

  40. 40.

    piratedan

    October 17, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    well you also have the other extreme, the sabermetrics aficionados who believe that all things baseball can be quantified with statistics as a determination of who’s good, who’s valuable and what makes baseball what it is. Sometimes I think that too many of these folks never spent a youthful afternoon fielding ground balls but still long to be a part of something greater than themselves.

  41. 41.

    Corner Stone

    October 17, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    @handy:

    Oh BTW Go Ranger! (No a fan, just—can’t stand the Cards)

    A-fuckin-men! Hate the hated fucking hated Cards.
    Death to the Cards!

  42. 42.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    I got tickets to Game 1 Wednesday. Go Birds!

    Oh, and what everyone else said about the Yankees. FtFY.

  43. 43.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Honest question. Why?

  44. 44.

    David in NY

    October 17, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    @Captain Goto:

    Red Sox for being the last team to integrate

    Funny, thought everybody knew that — but I’m getting old. The A.L. as a whole was a lot slower accepting integration than the N.L., which probably as a result (Robinson, Mays, Aaron, etc. etc. etc.) kicked the A.L.’s ass for years in the All Star game.

    A lot of teams did not integrate until the late ’50’s, not long before the Sox. The Yankees only with Elston Howard in ’55. Cleveland early with Larry Doby and Satchel Paige. As best I recall. My own Tigers next-to-last with some guy I can’t remember, except I think he went about 5-for-5 his first game.

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    October 17, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    @Eric S.: Brad Lidge and I were lovers up til the night Pujols hit the pitch that is still traveling. Bradley was never the same “on the mound” after that.
    Astros fan.

  46. 46.

    taylormattd

    October 17, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Dude, the point is, those pitchers are fat fucks who eat fried chicken and also GET DRUNK during games. Instead of, you know, sitting in the dugout supporting their teammates who happen to be playing that day.

    This isn’t the media; it’s a near consensus that the clubhouse was out of control.

  47. 47.

    Corner Stone

    October 17, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    @Eric S.: I’m no fan of the Brew Crew either. I was rooting for an asteroid during the series.
    Hate Ryan Braun’s punk smug completely unlikable burnspbesq visage.

  48. 48.

    Bizono

    October 17, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Intangibles fit the storytelling narrative much better than realistic discussions on randomization and the outcomes of baseball games.

    For example, this year in Philadelphia it was “CLIPH LEE JUST DIDN’T WANT IT BAD ENUFF! CARDNALS SUCK” instead of the factual “Cliff Lee was a victim of a bad Batting Avg of Balls in Play in game 2 and it cost him the win.” The former sells copy and gets ears on the talk radio. The latter gets pageviews on obscure SABR blogs.

  49. 49.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    @Corner Stone: OK, I’ll kind of accept that. The Astros went ahead and won that series to play the White Sox in the WS. I was holding a grudge and it was the only time I rooted for the AL in the WS.

  50. 50.

    RareSanity

    October 17, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    You know, we have this problem in Atlanta, with all of the sports teams.

    I don’t know if there is another major city, in the U.S., that has two so diametrically opposed, large demographic groups.

    For the most part, the suburanites are a rabid Fox News group (read: predominately white and Republican). Then the closer you get to the city, and the city itself, is an urban liberal group (read predominately black and Democratic, with quite a few DFHs, and a large LGBT community).

    The city dwellers love flashy athletes with big egos. The flashier the better. The suburanites, want nothing but clean cut athletes that “play the game as it was intended”. You know, no high-stepping, no trash talking, etc.

    The city folks, for the most part, have no interest in MLB. The suburbanites what nothing to do with the NBA. For the most part, its the city folks that support the Falcons and the suburbanites support UGA football. But there are just enough of them, that spend money, to have influence.

    They are the same people that ran Deion Sanders off. Didn’t like Mike Vick, even before the whole dog fighting thing.

    I have my theories as to why this “really” is, but I don’t feel like engaging with trolls, I’ve been having a good day, so far.

  51. 51.

    Certified Mutant Enemy

    October 17, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    For a team that wins all the time, the Yankees are strangely missing from the World Series this year…

  52. 52.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    I live two blocks from Wrigley Field and have a ton of friends who are Cubs fans. To a person, they all HATE Chipper Jones. A few will mock his (very mockable) nickname. They HATE Albert Pujols too. When I push them they have no answer. One or two will honestly admit after more prodding that they hate the players because they come in and beat the Cubs.

    I don’t understand that. I hate when my team has to face a player like that but I don’t hold it against the player.

  53. 53.

    redshirt

    October 17, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    @RareSanity: I think we all know why. It’s like when a Bostonian calls into WEEI to complain about any NBA player, or conversely, to praise Wes Welker to the Heavens (though, objectively, he’s awesome).

  54. 54.

    Bostondreams

    October 17, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Sigh. Never has my wife been so glad to be 500 miles away from me than that last game in September against the I*^&^%*&^&% Orioles. And I still will insist, blindly and foolishly, that the Yankees threw that game after they had an 11 run lead. Argh. Now my blood pressure is high again.

    This is the time of year I pull out my 2004 DVD complete set and sigh.

    Yankees suck.

  55. 55.

    FormerSwingVoter

    October 17, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    @theBuhjaysus:

    I figured those guys would get a lifetime pass. I guess not.

    This is pretty hilarious, actually. If your argument includes assumptions like “I would expect Massachusetts residents to behave like decent people if/when/because”, you need to re-evaluate your thesis.

    We’re called Massholes for a reason.

  56. 56.

    Suffern ACE

    October 17, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Well, going into the offseason, I would only wish that the problem with my team was fried chicken. That can be banned, and fat ass players booed from the stands. My team needs upgrades at first, second, third, outfield, a few long relievers, another stud starter, and a catcher who can call big games. But other than that we’re golden for next year. I would like to ban their poor hitting, fielding and baserunning. It’s hard to boo a team when it takes the field in the first inning for sucking when it’s playing up to potential.

  57. 57.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 17, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    For a hitter, everything is a ritual.

    Pedro Cerrano (Dennis Haysbert) and Jobu. (from the film Major League)

    At one point, Cerrano wanted to sacrifice a chicken in the locker room to Jobu as an incentive to get the hits. Jake Taylor (Tom Berenger) brings in a bucket of KFC, because sacrificing a live chicken in the locker room would be, um, disquieting…

  58. 58.

    Certified Mutant Enemy

    October 17, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    @handy:

    Drop dead ;)

  59. 59.

    Bostondreams

    October 17, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Oh, and I will always be grateful to Theo and Tito (and John Henry and Larry Luchinno) for getting us that title. I love Tito.

    The new GM Ben Cherington, though, is supposedly Theo without the ego.

  60. 60.

    David in NY

    October 17, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    @Certified Mutant Enemy:

    For a team that wins all the time, the Yankees are strangely missing from the World Series this year…

    I would endorse this even more heartily (my Tigers knocked them out), but the Yankee announcers were noting that it would be something like the Yankee’s 28th (?) pennant, or maybe even world’s championship. (Thus violating the sacred baseball rule against counting your chickens …) In a game where, as somebody noted, failure is endemic, this is a pretty remarkable record.

    Now, a quiz. What four teams ever finished tenth in their league (when that was possible)?

    ED: Also. Looks like 28th WS, and about 41st pennant. Amazing.

  61. 61.

    FormerSwingVoter

    October 17, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    @Bostondreams:

    The new GM Ben Cherington, though, is supposedly Theo without the ego.

    Ah. So is he just an empty suit that walks around on its own, or what?

  62. 62.

    Roger Moore

    October 17, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    @piratedan:

    Sometimes I think that too many of these folks never spent a youthful afternoon fielding ground balls but still long to be a part of something greater than themselves.

    Fuck you, too. Being interested in statistical analysis doesn’t mean you don’t care about the human aspect of the game, or that you’ve never played the game. I happen to be a card-carrying SABR member, and I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth. People do statistical analysis because they want to have a deeper understanding of what makes the game work, but that doesn’t mean they can’t appreciate the human aspect of the game. Many of the people who do stats are also heavily involved in the historical and biographical side of the game too, and as far as I’ve seen, they’re all hard-core fans of the game on the field. Bill James, to pick a very prominent example, has probably forgotten more about baseball than you ever dreamed of knowing. Try actually reading something those people have written some time, rather than hypothesizing about them in the absence of real data.

  63. 63.

    redshirt

    October 17, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    I lived next to Fenway Park for close to ten years. 2003, I’m eatin’ brunch at Thorton’s (RIP), and see this super babe come in with this little nerd on her arm. Her beauty was so radiant it never dawned on me until we were paying the check that the little nerd was Theo. Good on you Theo!

    I hope he get’s the Cubbies their title too – but beware, Cubs fan. Having the ignominy of doom is a blessing – really. You can bond over it. Once you win the title, who cares anymore? Witness: Red Sox, 2011.

  64. 64.

    David in NY

    October 17, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    @Roger Moore: Easy there.

    I do know a number of PhD’s in Econ, History, etc., who, in the days before computers, got their start making up their own fantasy baseball games using the statistics on the backs of baseball cards.

  65. 65.

    Suffern ACE

    October 17, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    @handy: I will gladly overlook the Rangers’ spot in the history of the doping of players, since both the A’s and Cardinals under the “genius” manager have been major dopers from time to time.

  66. 66.

    daveX99

    October 17, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    There’s something about all of this, the things the press picks on, that reminds me a lot of politics.

    I believe the technical term is ‘bullshit’.

  67. 67.

    daveNYC

    October 17, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: They spend a lot of money and do pretty good, not great, good. That’s basically it. Given the fucked up state of baseball competitiveness, it’s probably easier for some team fans to root against the Yankees than it is for them to hold any hope of their team winning the World Series (or breaking .500).

    Sadly, the fact that baseball owners are about the stupidest people on the face of the planet means that there won’t be a hard cap on salaries anytime soon.

  68. 68.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    @David in NY:

    Now, a quiz. What four teams ever finished tenth in their league (when that was possible)?

    Wow, I didn’t realize there were 10 teams in a division at one point. I had to look it up. Per baseball reference dot com, there are 6 teams that finished 10th. I won’t give away your quiz answers though.

  69. 69.

    Joel

    October 17, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Well in both cases, John Lackey is the antichrist.

  70. 70.

    David in NY

    October 17, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    @Eric S.: Geez, six? My memory faileth. I may have been thinking the A.L. only, which would leave a couple of total losers in the N.L. over the few years this was possible. Or not.

  71. 71.

    Corner Stone

    October 17, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Wow. Brandon Lloyd traded from Broncs to the Rams?
    Maybe Tebow isn’t the Lord’s favorite after all.

  72. 72.

    Roger Moore

    October 17, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    @handy:

    Oh BTW Go Ranger!

    No. Even if I could cheer a team from Texas, I will not cheer for a team that was once co-owned by George W. Bush and who chooses to invite the war criminal to their games.

  73. 73.

    theBuhjaysus

    October 17, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    @redshirt:

    I realize that a big part of rooting for the Cubs is rooting for the underdog(I’d say little guy, but their payroll is what, third in the majors).

    @FormerSwingVoter:

    too funny

  74. 74.

    Lysana

    October 17, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    I’m a lifelong BoSox fan. I don’t give a crap about the fried chicken. It’s the alcohol that’s the kicker to me. There is no good served by getting buzzed when you’re supposed to be ready to play.

    I’ll also note that the biggest reason Boston doesn’t talk about the Patriots is they’re too far away. There is a huge amount of provinc!a1ism in the city of Boston, second only to New York in my experience of American cities. If the Pats played closer to Boston, such as on the “right” side of Framingham, they’d get a lot more attention paid to them in the local press. I grew up on the other side of Framingham and will attest to how little our existence as people mattered to Boston.

    Finally, the Yankee hate goes back a very long way, and a lot of people dislike them because they have been the best team money could buy for decades. Not just in the last 30 years. I mean the last 90. That appellation was given them in the sports press in the 1920s.

  75. 75.

    Lysana

    October 17, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    And WTF did I say in my last comment that got it moderated? Oh. That. Provincial-ism and social-ism have a common problem.

  76. 76.

    Roger Moore

    October 17, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    @David in NY:

    Now, a quiz. What four teams ever finished tenth in their league (when that was possible)?

    You’d better be careful about asking that question, because you’re undoubtedly forgetting about the 1892-1899 National League (technically the National League and American Association, which was formed by amalgamating the surviving teams from two leagues in 1891). You can be forgiven for ignoring leagues like the 1884 American Association, 1884 Union Association, and the 1872 and 1875 National Association, where not every team completed its schedule, so determining which team was actually in 10th is a semantic exercise.

  77. 77.

    RareSanity

    October 17, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    @redshirt:

    praise Wes Welker to the Heavens (though, objectively, he’s awesome)

    Agreed.

    Wes Welker = Awesome

  78. 78.

    handy

    October 17, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Yeah but you don’t know the ignomy of seeing the Cardinals holding up another WS trophy. And that Busch family has had its share of douchebags past and present.

  79. 79.

    reflectionephemeral

    October 17, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Oh sure. I’ve written about that a bunch, the similarity between mainstream political journalism and the worst of sports journalism, including here.

    Judge Posner wrote:

    Relatively little attention is paid to issues. Fundamental questions, like the actual difference in policies that might result if one candidate rather than the other won, get little play. The focus instead is on who’s ahead, viewed as a function of campaign tactics, which are meticulously reported. Candidates’ statements are evaluated not for their truth but for their adroitness; it is assumed, without a hint of embarrassment, that a political candidate who levels with voters disqualifies himself from being taken seriously, like a racehorse that tries to hug the outside of the track. News coverage of a political campaign is oriented to a public that enjoys competitive sports, not to one that is civic-minded.

    The funny thing is, sports journalism has the horse race right out there in front of them, and they choose instead to write about hairstyles & whatever it is they’re talking about on PTI instead of what determines who wins. Greg Bedard at the Globe is one of the very good ones, though, btw.

    (Incidentally, because I am a Sox & Pats (& Bs & Cs & BC) fan, with a morbid interest in the worst of political journalism, my girlfriend once asked me if I was DougJ. I have to go back & dig up your post about listening to musicals to prove otherwise).

  80. 80.

    Roger Moore

    October 17, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    @handy:

    And that Busch family has had its share of douchebags past and present.

    That would be a stronger case if they still owned the team.

  81. 81.

    David in NY

    October 17, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    @Roger Moore: You are right. Also I couldn’t remember the answer to my own damn question on its own terms, must less as applied to ancient history. Partly I had forgotten the history of NL expansion, partly I couldn’t believe the turnaround of a couple of NL teams between 1967 and ’69. And partly, I just don’t pay much attention to baseball these days. But it is a pretty good question, I think, even restricting it to the period during which some of us were alive.

  82. 82.

    handy

    October 17, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Hey you hold W against the Rangers.

  83. 83.

    piratedan

    October 17, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    @Roger Moore: i deal with them every-fucking-day on the blog that covers the teams that I root for SIR. Half of them wouldn’t know what base to throw to from the goddamn outfield with a runner on first with one out. Here’s a stat for you, your last post is 1.000 for drawing the same dumbass assumptions that you accuse me of. If your ilk were as all knowing as you say you are, explain why Albert Pujols was drafted so late? How did the Phillies lose with the best starting rotation in baseball? Why does baseball punditry continue to fail ever so freaking miserably on draft picks and trades and assumptions on who is better than whom.

    I know the game is comprised of humans, some succeed, some fail, some learn some don’t and for some goddamn reason, and on some days, it rains. You SABR devotees never seem to get that because every time I bring the “human element” argument into the discussion I get shouted down regarding the BABIP or the xFiP doesn’t justify “my argument”. I’ve read Bill James, I’ve been to Fangraphs, I been to BA and I still believe that lies, damn lies and statistics is applicable when discussing baseball.

    so here’s a FYVM in response.

  84. 84.

    redshirt

    October 17, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    @RareSanity: It’s hilarious how often the same adjectives are used to describe Welker and any white WR in the NFL: Blue Collar. Gritty. Working Class. “Smart”.

    That’s why Dustin Pedroia is unto God in Boston. And, objectively, he’s pretty awesome.

  85. 85.

    Darkrose

    October 17, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Because the have the biggest budget in major league baseball, and can essentially afford to buy titles.

    Also, because they’re the Yankees.

  86. 86.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    @reflectionephemeral:

    Incidentally, because I am a Sox & Pats (& Bs & Cs & BC) fan, with a morbid interest in the worst of political journalism, my girlfriend once asked me if I was DougJ.

    Ha!

  87. 87.

    Darkrose

    October 17, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    @Eric S.:

    I live two blocks from Wrigley Field and have a ton of friends who are Cubs fans. To a person, they all HATE Chipper Jones. A few will mock his (very mockable) nickname. They HATE Albert Pujols too. When I push them they have no answer. One or two will honestly admit after more prodding that they hate the players because they come in and beat the Cubs.

    I don’t understand that. I hate when my team has to face a player like that but I don’t hold it against the player.

    I totally do. I have an irrational loathing for Jayson Werth, based solely on my impression of him from the 2010 NLCS. He’s not even with the Phillies any more.

  88. 88.

    Corner Stone

    October 17, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    @reflectionephemeral:

    Incidentally, because I am a Sox & Pats (& Bs & Cs & BC) fan, with a morbid interest in the worst of political journalism, my girlfriend once asked me if I was DougJ.

    This is so far beyond mind boggling…it boggles the mind.

  89. 89.

    Turgidson

    October 17, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    @Eric S.:

    They HATE Albert Pujols too.

    His name is pronounced “poo holes,” How can you not hate him?

    I kid. I’m a Cubs fan and hate the Cards fiercely like I’m supposed to, but I don’t hate Albert personally. The guy is just really fucking good at baseball and the Cards have him, and we don’t (until free agency anyway). Same with Carpenter. Great player, beats my team like a rented mule most of the time, but I don’t hate him.

  90. 90.

    Turgidson

    October 17, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    @redshirt:

    I hope he get’s the Cubbies their title too – but beware, Cubs fan. Having the ignominy of doom is a blessing – really. You can bond over it. Once you win the title, who cares anymore? Witness: Red Sox, 2011.

    I’ll be happy to have this problem after the Cubs win a World Series.

    But they won’t. They’re the fucking Cubs. Haven’t won one since before any of my (all now deceased) grandparents were born. Probably won’t win again until all my grandchildren (if I’m lucky to have them) are dead too. It’s the fucking Cubs we’re talking about here.

  91. 91.

    handy

    October 17, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    @Turgidson:

    If only we could replace Chris Carpenter with Cris Carpenter, the gas can thrower from the 90s who also played for the Cardinals.

  92. 92.

    Darkrose

    October 17, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    @Cat Lady:

    Hoooo boy. Friedchickengate has taken over my radio, and as a life long Red Sox fan also too, I’m enjoying every minute of it. The whole team turned into JD Drew, and whined all summer about their schedule. The whole starting rotation got fat, and if you had never seen a picture of them before September, you would never guess in a million years these were athletes. I know pitchers can be fat, but these guys got FAT during the season. Unlike Chris Christie who can govern while fat, getting through 6+ innings carrying 20 extra pounds, at least, not so much.

    Everyone was panicking when Pablo Sandoval gained a lot of the wait he’d lost back. But it didn’t seem to hurt him any–he was still being brilliant both on defense and hitting. Sadly, the 2011 Giants can be summed up as “Four Pitchers and a Panda and a bunch of guys who can’t see the ball.”

  93. 93.

    Zastrozzi

    October 17, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    John Lackey. F#%& !!!!!

  94. 94.

    Suffern ACE

    October 17, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    There’s something about all of this, the things the press picks on, that reminds me a lot of politics.

    Same class of people hired by the same media companies to write stuff popular to the same audience. If your sports coverage is shallow, it’s cause the writers when they don’t have a chance to write about anything are writing about the things they think their readers want.

  95. 95.

    seanindc

    October 17, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    no, Idiot, they lost because they ate fried chicken, drank beer during the off days, weren’t invested as a team and didn’t fucking work out during the year so the fat ass pitchers would get winded by the 3rd inning and shit the bed.

  96. 96.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    @Darkrose:

    I totally do. I have an irrational loathing for Jayson Werth, based solely on my impression of him from the 2010 NLCS. He’s not even with the Phillies any more.

    That’s still different. You loath Werth because of an impression he left. It may be intangible. It may be irrational. Then again, it may not. But that’s not hating an opponent for being better than you.

    Chipper, Big Z before the melt down, Braun, the ’05 Astros all beat up on my team. I only ever held a grudge against the Astros and that had more to do with Biggio saying the day before Game 1 of the 2005 World Series(paraphrase), “We made it to the Series. We’ve reached our goal.” F**k that! You’re goal is to win.

  97. 97.

    Eric S.

    October 17, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    @redshirt:

    I hope he get’s the Cubbies their title too – but beware, Cubs fan. Having the ignominy of doom is a blessing – really.

    I hope not. If they do make it to the series I’ll have to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights to defend the lawn from excessive urination.

    You’re correct about the blessing in some ways. I’d also say a certain amount of fair weather fandom is healthy for a team. When a team can be bad forever and still be excessively loved, sell out the seats, and have big TV contracts it is not a good recipe for winning.

  98. 98.

    Mnemosyne

    October 17, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    All of the Cubs talk is requiring me to post the classic Steve Goodman song. It’s all the more poignant when you know that Goodman died shortly afterward of the leukemia that he’d been battling for years.

  99. 99.

    Cat Lady

    October 17, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    @Lysana:

    I grew up in Framingham, so I guess we got just the right amount of coverage. BTW, an episode of Mad Men where Don was driving Miss Farrell’s brother to somewhere, they stopped in Framingham. Woot!

  100. 100.

    opie jeanne

    October 17, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    @Dougerhead: We Angels fans watched the Red Sox collapse at the end of the season with some glee but also a bit of sympathy. Not much, a little. We are mostly an unforgiving bunch.

  101. 101.

    Quaker in a Basement

    October 17, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    “Jesus, Ebby, here you are leaving your fastball in the clubhouse with some piece of ass chicken.“

  102. 102.

    opie jeanne

    October 17, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    @handy:

    Sitting beside a knowledgable Sox fan is a joy.

    Sitting in our home stadium full of drunken chowderheads who boo our team is annoying.

  103. 103.

    Dougerhead

    October 17, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    @Cat Lady:

    That was a good episode.

    I miss Miss Farrell.

  104. 104.

    virag

    October 18, 2011 at 12:06 am

    boston loves to hate their sports people. the finest tv ever produced was the sports beat show on channel 38 after redsox games with upton bell, bob ryan, dan shaughnessy and will mcdonough, especially after a sox loss and extra especially when they brought on sean mcdonough and bob montergomery and made fun of them because the sox loss. sweet jeebus it was sublime.

  105. 105.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 18, 2011 at 1:18 am

    Nowadays, I dislike the structure of Major League Baseball, in particular the lack of a level playing field and the too-long play-off system

    Yeah, baseball should be more like it was in the old days, when every team had a shot. Except the Phillies, and the Pirates, and the Braves, and the Browns, and the A’s, and the Cubs, and the White Sox, and the Indians, and the Reds, and the Senators. You could never be sure which combination of Yankees, Dodgers, and Cardinals would be in the World Series. Truly it was the golden age of baseball.

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