Apparently, one of the Big Goverment flunkies has learned that Matt Taibbi and Dylan Ratigan are “secretly” working with the #OWS crowd via email.
Has anyone at Breitbart HQ watched so much of five minutes of Ratigan over the course of the last two years? Read any Taibbi? They aren’t secretly doing anything- Dylan Ratigan has been screaming about this stuff for years. Hell, Taibbi just publicly gave advice to #OWS.
UP NEXT ON BIG GOVERNMENT- SECRET EMAILS SHOW THAT STARBUCKS SELLS OVERPRICED SHITTY TASTING COFFEE. Clowns.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Wait until they find out that, sometimes, Obama secretly goes to the bathroom.
4tehlulz
Starbucks sells coffee?
FlipYrWhig
It’s only a rumor, but I heard that at least one major media organization was closely coordinating with the Tea Party.
namekarB
Shorter John: Liberal Media contacts liberals
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
That’s really funny. They are not well attached to reality. I know, water is wet; film at 11.
frogspawn
Using email?!! Those dastards!
cathyx
Come on John, we all know you’re a tea drinker. Starbucks isn’t that bad.
General Stuck
Wingnuts be pissin’ their pants over the world wide OWS phenom, that makes their puny Tea Party look like a hand full of butthurt well off white folk, which they are, btw. So the bats are busy in the tard belfry to come up with some whackadoodle meme to discredit. I love it. Just don’t start breaking things, make it peaceful as is possible. Let the cops do the rioting.
TFinSF
I used to think this until I moved to the land of Dunkin-Donuts-on-every-corner, with few Starbucks to be found. Le sigh.
cleek
Journolist 2.0!
if you listen closely, you can hear the sound of thousands of Kleenex whoosing and they’re quickly yanked from their boxes, left-handedly.
wobblybits
@cathyx:
Yes, yes it is.
Paul in KY
@TFinSF: I like their lattes. It is overpriced, though.
Paul in KY
@General Stuck: Throw a Wallah or two in there, and conjugate a bit more & that would be a great MC post!
cathyx
@TFinSF: Yes, it is better than moolattes and McCafes and some in places that’s all the choice you get. Here in the Pacific Northwest, we have many better choices besides Starbucks, but when I have traveled to Ohio. Pa, or New Jersey I would kill for a Starbucks.
balconesfault
Still, the best one is that OWS is Soros funded … because Soros gives money to the Tides Foundation … and as recently as 2003 Tides Foundation gave money to Adbusters … so OF COURSE this is all some Soros funded plot!
General Stuck
@Paul in KY:
cudlip
Rosalita
@cathyx:
Yeah it is… unless you get a latte or something. Their regular coffee tastes like it’s been on the burner for hours. Consumerist blog even has a special tag for them: #tastesburnt
BGinCHI
Another great example of GOP/Right Wing projection.
Since every movement they have (yes, even in the bathroom) is sponsored by billionaire cash, they assume it’s true of all groups on the left. Or of talking heads telling the peons what to do (like Rush and Beck over in the clown car section). What’s baffling to the right and the MSM about OWS is that it doesn’t have a center, doesn’t have a clear money stream or backer.
They can’t imagine doing anything worthwhile politically that’s not paid for with big money.
Comrade Javamanphil
@wobblybits: 1) Seconded. 2) I hope it’s not wrong to admit I read your post using Ferb’s voice.
Paul in KY
@General Stuck: There you go ;-)
Dave
i read the actual emails. none of those people is actually talking to OWS directly. right wing media is full of really strange people. idiots, also too.
Bill E Pilgrim
Wait a minute… you mean Matt Taibbi and others are liberal? And they have jobs in the media?
It’s well and good to call it the liberal media, but that’s a far cry from actually discovering that it contains people who are liberals, openly, and yet claim any objectivity. Everyone knows only conservatives can do that.
By the way, expressing support in a public mailing list is pretty much the same as doing so on cable television.
cathyx
@Rosalita: It isn’t actually burnt. I talked to the barrista once about it and she said that some dark roasts taste like that, depending on the bean, and that some people like it. They have strict protocol about how long coffee is sitting and how hot it is.
cleek
Soros + OWS? old and busted.
Nazis + Commies + OWS? Hot!
Poopyman
It makes more sense when you consider that the audience for their “journalism” only hears about OWS, Taibbi, and Ratigan through the wingnut filter, if at all. Everything has to fit the meme of “librul media in bed with each other”.
Starbuck’s ain’t so bad. Most of it’s overpriced, but ’tain’t so shitty.
rikryah
everytime it’s revealed that NOTHING grassroots on the right-wing side is GENUINE, but bought and paid for by the likes of the KOCH BROTHERS, they insist that it should be dismissed…
but, anything to do with the ‘left’, oh, it’s the worst thing in the world.
fuck them
Served
This weekend, my grandpa “revealed” to me that OWS is actually part of a worldwide militant Marxist movement funded by Soros, which is why it’s so globally connected. Yep mhmm…
Judas Escargot
@TFinSF:
It depends on how you drink it: Those who prefer their coffee Black (like me) are IMO less likely to care for Starbucks, whose burny-oily flavor seems more ‘tuned’ to complement lattes and the like. Remember, New England is where Krispy Kreme (whose coffee just couldn’t cut it here) came to die.
As to the topic: WTF is the crime or scandal with crafting a message? First the PTB get mad that the Little People finally got motivated enough to stand up for themselves… now we aren’t even allowed to talk to each other? Shall we ask their permission to use the toilet from now on, as well?
The GOP == Abusive-Control-Freak-Ex framing just gets easier and easier to make.
kindness
@cathyx: Starbucks sucks. Peets rules.
Robert Waldmann
What an odd coincidence. I was just thinking about how low an opinion of Matt Taibbi I have. Basically I think he doesn’t care about mere facts and has an insane theory that Rubin is both much more powerful and much more anti-regulatoin than Rubin is. I can say that I don’t trust any claim of fact made by Matt Taibbi unless it is confirmed by someone else. That is, I find his journalism is completely totally utterly worthless.
I mention this just for context. I absolutely agree with the post. BigGovernment is more ridiculous than you imagine possible even taking into account the fact that they are more ridiculous than you imagine possible.
I don’t want to troll, but I will check to see if anyone wishes to discuss my views of Taibbi.
geg6
@wobblybits:
Agreed.
@Rosalita:
And this is why.
I won’t touch that swill.
As for the whining about Ratigan and Taibbi, I just have to say that I think that, perhaps, Breitbart isn’t tuned into who these guys are and what their schtick might be.
Wait. Nah. He and his flunkies are just your usual wingnut liars using their tired old outrage machine.
TFinSF
@cathyx:
Yes, my 6 years in Seattle were the best coffee days of my life [wipes tear].
Alex
I’m constantly amazed that organizations like Big ____ or Daily Caller are still treated as journalists. I would figure that after the tenth “scoop” that was based on bad journalism or misreporting facts, people would stop relying on them.
But hey, fair and balanced media justifies everything, I guess.
cathyx
@TFinSF: I thought San Francisco had good coffee. Unless SF in your name doesn’t stand for San Francisco.
Mark B.
Here in Austin, they clear the square where the protesters are nightly for pressure washing. It’s a pretty transparent attempt to disperse the protesters while pretending to be ‘nice’ and at the same time a swipe at them for being dirty hippies.
It’s kind of interesting that the city decided this has to be done on a nightly basis now that OWS is there, and although the same square is used quite often for public events, I would guess it isn’t done more than a couple times a year otherwise. The local TV news reports breathlessly on how a few protesters create a scene nightly when they refuse to leave … and lots of right wingers just eat it up.
maya
Lifted from Dana Roach’s BG comments:
XASHEX
Occupy Wall Street:
-No real purpose -Fight with police
-Open fornacation -Pooping on cop cars
-Overuse of mind altering substances
-Civil disobedience -Sleeping in a park
-Mounds of trash
-Supported by mainstream media
Tea Party
-Message: lower taxes and return to consitiution
-No fights with police
-No pooping on anythig
-No mounds of trash
-No fornication, open drug use, or civil disobedience
-Media calls teabaggers every name in the book.
I officially declare the people of Occupy Wall Street: “dirtbaggers!”
Poop on cop cars? Open fornacation? How come we didn’t get the You Tube on any of that John?
wobblybits
@cathyx: I have had dark roast coffee (Italy, Brazil, France) and it didn’t taste anything like that. Their dark roast = burnt coffee beans. I will resort to instant coffee before I drink Starbucks.
some guy
from a linked website, “Fire Andrea Mitchell”:
While it’s clear that Ratigan and Tiabbi are working on with these astroturf protest group, it’s unclear what involvement other media hacks on this are. Bill Moyers and Glenn Greenwald appear on the list, but there is no (as of yet) e-mails from them. Same with left wing radical Noam Chomsky, remains unclear.
there’s a list? jeebus help us, these wingnuts are fucking idiots.
wobblybits
@Comrade Javamanphil: Haha, don’t mind at all.
TFinSF
@cathyx: It does. Quite good, but I found many of the little cafes in Seattle a bit better. Like Lighthouse Roasters. I’m no longer in San Francisco — moved to central MA for work — and the coffee here is appalling.
Mark B.
@maya: Tea Party
…
-No pooping on anythig
Dear Tea Partiers: Everybody poops.
pete
@maya: Well, that clears it up: The Tea Party folks do not poop, ergo they are full of …
Rosalita
@cathyx: Oh I know they don’t do that and it’s fresh – it just tastes like it’s not. I”m all for a good french roast personally but I’ve never been a fan of their regular stuff.
FlipYrWhig
@maya:
Do colostomy bags count?
Mark B.
@pete: It’s not that they don’t poop, it’s just that their shit don’t stink. Or so they think.
EconWatcher
Sincere question: Why did OWS happen now? There doesn’t seem to any any recent triggering event. And Congress, for better or worse, already passed its major legislative response to the financial crisis last year. Comp and profits at the big banks actually seem to be declining (not that they’re not still outrageous). Why now?
ajr22
Isn’t this attack on Starbucks an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!
General Stuck
@EconWatcher:
Who knows, but it started right after Obama gave his populist style speech to a convened congress, and continued it in other venues. That marked the beginning of the POTUS election campaign. But who knows?
Bill E Pilgrim
@kindness:
They learned at Alfred Peet’s feet about how to make coffee. I think it’s slipped since then, and Peet’s gets it closer than Starbucks does but neither of them gets it right, really. If you’re used to real cappuccinos with the right kind of foam and so on, those places are not even close.
If you’re surrounded by Denny’s and Dunkin Donuts though, finding either a Peets or a Starbucks is a Godsend. I was driving a long distance a few months ago and just couldn’t stay awake late in the evening, so I had an espresso at MacDonald’s. It was a a remarkable, er, substance. You almost could have thought it was a double beef consume or something, like they’d gotten “bouillon cubes” and “coffee beans” mixed up. Maybe I should try their soup.
maya
!OWS BULLETIN!
Because of the hygienic concerns of some of our non-allied friends in the Tea Party movement, it is now highly recommended that everyone bring something along with them when they feel a movement coming on while attending OWS protests. Tricorner hats should do just nicely.
Zifnab
@Mark B.:
I can’t wait to hear about how “Protesters in Austin have cost the city hundreds of trillions of dollars in pressure washing fees and cop overtime salaries!”
Martin
Wait, isn’t this just the Journolist ‘scandal’ with some search and replace applied?
I’ve already suffered through this idiocy once, I’m not going to do it again.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@wobblybits:
Bumper sticker in a locally-owned coffee shop in Columbia MO:
“Friends don’t let friends do Starbucks”
Breitbart et al get paid to write pieces that pretty much say “BIG GOVERNMENT >insert wingnut daily talking point here< since no wingnut will ever get past the "BIG GOVERNMENT" part of the sentence.
handy
@Mark B.:
Watch out, this may quickly devolve into a Sadly No thread.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Mark B.:
That’s especially rich in light of the fact we’re in Stage 2 mandatory water conservation mode; nightly pressure washing is supposed to be a no-no IINM.
David in NY
@EconWatcher:
I’d say things have been simmering a while. But there was then a major trigger — the Republicans’ refusal to raise the debt ceiling or even to consider raising taxes on the very rich (or reducing hand-outs to oil companies) to reduce the debt.
That is, I think the Republicans’ austerity push clearly came to be seen as a program of protecting the rich, not reducing deficits, and lots more people have just had it with that program. They see OWS as being on their side.
Bill E Pilgrim
@handy:
I think that was last night, with the spam thing gone hayware.
Litlebritdfrnt
Uh Huh the comment numbering is starting over at 1. Are the comments about to go kablooey again?
jl
@maya:
” Open fornacation…
” Overuse of mind altering substances ”
Then the DFH’s in front of the SF Fed are pretty lame OWSers.
But I was there on a Saturday morning, so maybe they were taking a rest.
Anyone know the schedule? I’ll give it another try.
Ash Can
So when do our resident trolls show up, describing in great detail how George Soros is laundering his financing of OWS through a credit union in Cambridge, MA that’s used by a Planned Parenthood office in Boston whose director is a sister-in-law of someone arrested in Seattle last week who was found to have pamphlets in Farsi in his pocket, and that this just proves that even Obama’s own DoJ would be investigating this if not for Eric Holder spending all his time covering up mass murders in Mexico, and this all proves that Obama is a lame duck president now, and if you don’t believe it, here are the links to prove it: (links to Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Fox News, and Joe Walsh’s press releases.)
Maude
OWS has gotten donated storage space and $300k.
Linda Featheringill
@General Stuck:
Absolutely. Most people have heard the macho-I’m-right-they’re-wrong justification too often to believe it any more. Most people can figure out right and wrong.
[Some of those cops really give masculinity a bad name, don’t they?]
jl
@Litlebritdfrnt:
Oh noes! Maybe the Balloon Juice secrete message system is compromised!
Well, at least maybe we’ll find out how much Soros money Tunch eats through every month.
I can’t see no renumbered messages, so let me in on the scoop.
Bill E Pilgrim
@EconWatcher: I think that’s a very good question and I just read a piece by Robert Reich that provides his view of a sort of answer. Good read anyway.
It’s cyclical, in short, is his view. I keep wondering if that’s true anymore. I think something inherent in human nature combined with the “anyone can be rich!” mantra of the US makes a poisonous combination, to some degree. If anyone can be rich, then A) I’m going to vote for the rich guys because I’ll be one soon (that’s the human nature part, a combination of denial and chutzpah) and B) anyone who isn’t rich is a loser. Except not me because this is just a rough patch you understand.
I hope it’s cyclical, anyway. More hopeful this week than eight weeks ago, I can say that.
Poopyman
@Litlebritdfrnt: I blame Handy.
Or maybe it’s Sadly, No! magic?
slag
You laugh now. But just wait until this secret cabal of unorganized hippies comes knocking on your door to steal all your guns and force you to poop on police cars. Brownshirts with dreadlocks will soon be the only fashion…the fascist anarchists are coming for you.
General Stuck
And yes, senor Cole, the nutter oogling over Ratigan is especially comical. The dude daily screams in speckled contempt for all the things OWS considers itself, and has for a long time. So Ratigan is in secret communique via the boob tube. Too Funny.
Strandedvandal
Starbucks is nectar of the gods. Spend some time in Canuckistan drinking Tim Horton’s brown piss you’ll soon learn the difference.
Ash Can
@jl: Well, there you are. If Soros is subsidizing Tunch’s grocery tab, there’s no way he can afford to finance OWS too.
Maude
@Ash Can:
WIN
jl
@EconWatcher:
Maybe because there was no triggering event. More and more people have nothing to do, and none of the Very Serious People who rule us lesser mortals seemed to give a damn.
So, maybe a few aggressive speeches on jobs bill, and a drum circle with a good beat caught people’s attention, and that was combined with a lot of peopl who were tired of fruitless job searches. And looking at the opinion polls, a complete lack of faith that Congress will ever do anything.
I think it had to happen sooner or later, but it is always difficult to find a reason why it happened at any particular time.
Satanicpanic
Let’s all play Six Degrees to George Soros
Bill E Pilgrim
Ahem. Let the pizza soar.
Ridnik Chrome
@maya:
How come we didn’t get the You Tube on any of that John?
Watch out. Next thing you know James O’Keefe and Co. will be dressing up as fake OWS protesters and videotaping themselves “fornacating” in public…
catclub
@Bill E Pilgrim: You would think it would take a conman of the Barnum variety to convince 90% of Americans that they are only temporarily embarassed millionaires. But there you go.
I figure the other 10% are convinced they are 10,000 year old spirits.
Martin
@David in NY: You know, I’m going to give Colbert some credit on this one, and Obama some credit (though sorta undeserving).
The original impetus for the demonstrations was a response basically to Congress, and elections more broadly, being clearly owned by the wealthy now. That was the original message – that if Wall Street was now effectively running our democracy, that was where the message needed to go. Colbert has done a great job the last few months since Citizens United breaking down quite effectively how you can now buy elections. What was waaaaaaay to wonkish for anyone except, well idiots like me, he made very digestible. Simply by satirizing the money influence process by actually participating in it shows that even a cartoonishly despicable character like Colberts can actually do any goddamn thing he wants.
Credit to Obama, sortof, with his jobs speech back at Labor Day. He came out looking more like the candidate everyone voted for, kinda scrappy, riled up, much more populist – and Congress shut him straight down along the same old lines. The GOP has their ‘Plan for Job Creators’ Orwellian bullshit which is tax cuts for the rich and deregulation. Put against Colbert’s backdrop, and primed with Obama’s ineffectiveness (which I think served as a good reminder to people in that speech that perhaps Obama hasn’t changed as much from the candidate as people think) that the game is totally, completely, and unquestionably rigged against anyone earning under a million a year.
I think movements like this are like the old ‘reasons for WWI’ lesson we all learned in high school – there isn’t one cause, but a bunch that all converge at one point and cause something unexpected to happen.
(Please, let’s not start a flame war over the reasons for the start of WWI, we already have the Starbucks thing going.)
handsmile
The first shot-across-the-bow was last week’s notorious Reuters story allegedly linking George Soros to OWS, an article so flimsy that it couldn’t even make it onto the Right-Wing Wurlitzer.
Now this breathless revelation of co-conspirators within the Fourth Estate!
Having failed in its effort to dismiss “Occupy Wall Street” as but the latest episode of street theater among DFHs and the chronically malcontent, the corporate media must rethink how to discredit the movement. Expect to see more stories “raising questions” about protest funding, organizational links to suspect groups, and allegations of fractures within OWS leadership.
Another tactic may simply be to devote less and less coverage to the protests; another shiny object discarded by the infants of the corporate media.
I fully expect to see a NYT article by the end of this week asking whether OWS is losing steam.
magurakurin
Turn the clock back 30 years and try to find decent strong coffee on the East Coast. You couldn’t. Starbucks isn’t the best of the best that emerged from the Pacific Northwest coffee culture, but it changed coffee for the better in the United States. When I was a kid the only whole beans you could find in the supermarket was 8 O’Clock coffee at the A&P. And it was pretty shitty. Coffee was the rather foul stuff found in big tin cans. Now the supermarkets are filled with all kinds of decent whole bean coffee. And while a Frappaccino or whatever its called may be an expensive $5 milkshake, a cup of Starbucks coffee isn’t that expensive compared to a diner and it is generally stronger and with more caffeine kick that standard diner coffee. In a strange place it is a safe bet for a drinkable cup that will take away the jones.
WereBear
Judging from the strong “student base” of the protests, the timing points at Back to School.
If you got your Masters, that represents some 18 years of September = School. That’s a heckuva transition to negotiate… especially when you don’t have a real job.
jl
@Martin:
The US should have declared war on Mexico over the Zimmerman telegram.
Anyone not an idiot or secret agent sending secret messages over the TV and twitter will say so.
And if weren’t for the soft liberal Wilson DemocRAT administration that did not believe in American Exceptionalism, we would have stood tall back then. But we didn’t and the great American decline began. The Great Depression started a mere 12 years later. Coincidence, I think not.
Linda Featheringill
Why now?
Perhaps because the Republicans in DC effectively shut down the legislative process and people gave up on the mainstream political methods.
Wouldn’t it be funny if the Republicans, in their efforts to destroy Obama, actually kicked off events that destroyed the current class structure?
burnspbesq
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves here. “Taibbi” and “objective” don’t fit comfortably in the same sentence, which is OK because he’s not a journalist, he’s a polemicist.
Linda Featheringill
@catclub: #75
LOL. It’s funny because it’s true.
Paul in KY
@Robert Waldmann: I like Mr. Taibbi alot. He explains complicated things in easy to understand & fun to read prose.
We need more Taibbis on our side, IMO.
Bill E Pilgrim
@burnspbesq: So then you agree with Breitbart. Congratulations ;)
Paul in KY
@Bill E Pilgrim: I am not much of a coffee drinker, prefer tea. When I get a coffee, I need a latte with hazelnut syrup or something like that in it to get it down.
After drinking the Starbucks version for awhile, I went into a McDonalds and ordered basically the same thing. Ick, not near as good as Starbucks (although about $1.00 cheaper too).
jl
The main culprits named in the sad weak and nutty wingnut link are oldies but goodies: Journolist, Soros and ACORN (via some alleged new ‘offshoot’).
New comers are Ratigan and Taibbi, and sure, they run all branches of the big corporate media. But everyone knew that.
Of course, FOX sent out gangs of its
corporate flunkiesreporters to flack the Teabaggers like it was a sweep week promo. But that was different.Actually, it was different, but not the way the wingnuts think.
soonergrunt
@handsmile: Just wait until a blonde girl goes missing. I can’t understand why we haven’t gone 24/7 on the missing infant in Kansas City, what with the OWS going on.
burnspbesq
@Ash Can:
Nice bit of pre-emptive trollery there. You pretty much touched all the bases.
Professor
@burnspbesq: Please what do you mean by ‘Objective’?
jl
And also too. What I know about fast food coffee, is that in the Switzerland McDonalds, you get one or two little cookies with the coffee, for free. Pretty damn good little cookie too. Now, they have good coffee.
Paul in KY
@Ridnik Chrome: I don’t think there’s a girl who would let him do that (short of a big paycheck). Thus, the ‘woman’ in that setup will probably be a dude.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Martin: Okay so if I understand correctly, you’re saying that World War One began as the result of clashes between Starbucks and Peets devotees, with a side issue of those who do and don’t like Matt Taibbi’s writing.
Interesting theory. I think I’ll just stay out of the rest of it though and watch others duke it out, if that doesn’t sound too arch of me.
Paul in KY
@jl: But you also paid $9.75 for the coffee ;-)
burnspbesq
@Bill E Pilgrim:
“So then you agree with Breitbart.”
What is gained by denying the obvious?
jl
Is there any way we can inveigle the Big Government people to try to infiltrate Balloon Juice?
They are just one step away from needing institutionalization (I mean the Big Gov crowd, BJ is there already), and a few go rounds with the BJ honchos would push them over the edge.
It would be uncivil and cruel and sadistic thing to do, but this is Class War!
Paul in KY
@Bill E Pilgrim: If you remember, it was Mr. Taibbi’s screeds attacking Kaiser Wilhelm’s manhood that prompted him to order the general mobilization.
Also, Von Starbuckeinzen was supplying the Imperial German Army with a strength of latte that had been banned by the Geneva Conventions of 1894.
It’s all connected…
David in NY
On the “Why now?” front, we shouldn’t overlook the direct call by adbusters to “#occupywallstreet” on Sept. 17, which happened.
Why its relative “success” so far? That’s the question. I’m inclined, like @Linda Featheringill, to credit the Republicans’ widely covered actions in bringing the government to a halt, ostensibly to reduce the deficit, and then rejecting what lots of people think were sensible solutions, raising some taxes, closing some loopholes. It made the refusal of the rich to pay their share, and the Republicans’ support of this, incredibly blatant. I’m not sure that Comedy Central has all that much persuasive power, but it certainly hasn’t hurt.
Corner Stone
@Bill E Pilgrim: You had me, right up til the last sentence. It has been seen.
jl
@Paul in KY: They were really good cookies. There was a shortbread thingy with some kind of marzipan frosting, a layered butter wafer thing with Swiss chocolate filling.
What else can a person live on for ten buck minus change a day over there?
some guy
of course Taibbi is a “polemicist” to people like tax avoidance lawyers, and even more so to their clients. “The Great American Bubble Machine” and “The People versus Goldman Sachs” are horribly uncivil, no matter how much good old fashioned reporting went into them, and what could be worse than Taibbi’s horribly impolite takedown of the Mustache of Understanding, “Flathead.”
David in NY
Why now?
Also, this, from Reich’s article linked above, seems to be sinking in:
burnspbesq
@Professor:
It starts with knowing, and caring about, the difference among truth, hype, and falsehood. It includes knowing, caring about, and acknowledging the differences among facts, reasonable inferences from known facts, speculation, and fantasy. It includes knowing that a great piece of imagery (e.g., vampire squid) is a poor substitute for proof. It includes knowing the meaning and proper usage of the word “alleged” and all of its derivatives. It includes knowing that just because you can libel public figures with impunity doesn’t mean you should.
Downpuppy
@Paul in KY: Tell me this’s not O’Keefe pretending to be a protestor for NRO.
burnspbesq
@burnspbesq:
ETA: it includes knowing that “outrageous” and “illegal” are not synonyms.
burnspbesq
At the risk of being a dick, may I just say that all of this coffee angst is enhancing my enjoyment of my morning Diet Coke?
Paul in KY
@jl: Well, you had to go & mention marzipan. That is one of my weaknesses.
danimal
I clicked the memeorandum link and it became apparent where the next line of BS will develop. They are trying to link OWS with….anti-semitism.
Personally, when the Wall Streeters jump out of their high-rise offices due to the intense feelings of rejection they are feeling from the DFHs gathered in the park, I don’t care what religion the blood splat used to be.
burnspbesq
@some guy:
If you have evidence that I’ve ever advised a client to do anything that wasn’t entirely permissible under current law, let’s see it. If not, go fuck yourself.
Paul in KY
@Downpuppy: He’s not as ferret faced as O’Queefe. Might be one of his henchlosers.
jl
@danimal: And it is a pack of lies. They are advertising a few anti Semitic nuts who have wandered around NYC for years, long before anyone thought of OWS, and trying to say they are part of OWS. It’s worse than nonsense, it is a knowing lie.
They are desperate.
some guy
I don’t need evidence, scumbag, you yourself explained on Balloon Juice that was what you do for a living. You are a tax avoidance lawyer, you advise clients on the best ways to avoid paying taxes.
Embrace your inner parasite, burnspbesq. for a guy who defended Geithner against the charges outlined in the Valukis report you sure seem awful committed to the whole “everything I did was perfectly legal” schtick. no wonder why you have such a hard on for people like Taibbi.
Bill E Pilgrim
@burnspbesq: Er, nothing, if you agree with Breitbart, that’s fine, I wouldn’t think anything would be gained by denying it.
More seriously my point was that Breitbart and his minions think that being objective enough to comment on public affairs is a condition that applies to him, but doesn’t apply to Taibbi. Which is the whole point of this post and what Big Government is trying to “expose”. All of which of course is utterly absurd.
We may actually be saying the same thing in a way, the way I would put it is that Matt Taibbi expressing what this alleged e-mail shows him to have done to a mailing list is not different from the views he expresses on cable interviews where he’s asked “what do you think OWS should deliver as their message?” and so on.
If anyone thinks that “objective” is some sort of quantifiable measure that should disqualify (or qualify) someone to write articles for Rolling Stone or be interviewed by Keith Olbermann, all I can say is yeesh. Dana Loesch clearly is saying that. You may not be, but I don’t know.
handsmile
I realize that for many here Glenn Greenwald is a contemptible figure and his Salon columns are unworthy of attention other than to belittle. (Views I do not share.)
To those of less strident opinion of the man, his ironically-titled column today, “What are those OWS people so angry about,” is well worth reading. A long excerpt:
some guy
It includes knowing that just because you can libel public figures with impunity doesn’t mean you should.
smells like innuendo. care to actually share with us who you feel Taibbi has libeled? didn’t think so. why provide evidence when inuuendo works even better.
jeebus, no wonder you have a hard on for Taibbi and your handwringing over “objective” truth.
WereBear
Just bought some sheets on my lunch hour from O.co
That’s how I ran across this:
O.co suing bunch of Wall Streeters
Interesting.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Corner Stone:
Say what?
Professor
@burnspbesq: So how will you have reported ‘objectively’ the treatment the police meted out to OWS protesters and the Tea Partiers of 2009. I hope you know that one’s ‘objectivity’ is formed by one’s empathy and the environment in which one was brought up.
jl
@Bill E Pilgrim:
It is not even clear to me whether the Taibbi email is part of OWS strategizing, or just the wonky kibbitzing and speculationing that goes on in Journolist.
I think Taibbi sees himself as a muckraker. His problem is that even if he gets the big picture right, he has made some mistakes in his reports of how things happened historically, and specifics of what people call ‘tick tock’ narrative of how something happened.
So, yeah, I think he has made enough mistakes so that when he has some inside tick tock scoop, you are advised to look for other confirmation, or take it with a grain of salt.
cleek
@Bill E Pilgrim:
i don’t think one needs to have a coherent political worldview, nor to even apply a political worldview of any kind to simply fight for the team. and Breitbart is a perfect example of someone who simply fights for the team. his job is to find and publicize, or create and publicize, things that make the other team look bad. they are cheerleaders. what he and his ilk actually believe (beyond “The GOP Rocks!”) is irrelevant to what they do.
IMO.
Bill E Pilgrim
@cleek: Oh don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying that Breitbart has no right to write articles or appear on TV. His saying that Taibbi doesn’t, or that Matt having expressed support for OWS in various ways disqualifies his “objectivity” to the point where it’s a scandal that he’s a journalist is the totally, utterly, ridiculous part I’m addressing.
Bill E Pilgrim
@jl:
It’s not actually Journolist, which is defunct (thanks to Breitbart and others). And yes, I agree, that’s what it looks like to me also.
Don’t agree about your assessment of Taibbi, he’s gotten more right than any critic of his I’ve ever seen. Have you ever actually read his rebuttals on his blog? The fact that he can write any of them (and anyone here) under the table helps of course also.
Corner Stone
@Bill E Pilgrim:
In a response to the causes of WWI you put this out there and expect no one to tell you, “What you are doing there? I haz seen it.”
Ridnik Chrome
NY resident here. While I am no fan of Mike Bloomberg (voted against him all three times), once again he manages to outshine his predecessor simply by not being a vindictive reactionary prick whenever the opportunity presents itself. If Rudy Giuliani were still mayor, the cops would have turned OWS into another Tompkins Square Park within the first two weeks. Probably sooner. So one very slow clap for Bloomberg…
Bill E Pilgrim
@Corner Stone: Ahhhh, now I see. Translating it into lolcat obviously helped me get it :) I’m not sure I should be proud of that though….
ornery
Taibbi is a muckracker in the best sense of the word, I agree with those who say we need more of him.
Glenn Greenwald is also very good, maybe a little uneven but in general he’s on target imo. On occasion he’s completely fantastic.
That Taibbi and Greenwald have enemies on the Right is evidence of their worth to greater society. IMO.
Corner Stone
@Bill E Pilgrim: Probably my fault. I speak in a mix of pidgin lolcat, with a Darmok inflection variant.
Bill E Pilgrim
A reminder of why Duncan Black is such a good blogger:
(NYT via Greenwald via Atrios, click on the links to follow it all).
Bill Keller, by the way, is a fine objective journalist.
Ash Can
@burnspbesq: I’m sure I’m leaving a lot out, though. No matter how much crazy shit I manage to come up with myself, they always pull something out of their asses that I haven’t foreseen. (But then, that’s probably not a bad thing. ETA: That I can’t foresee it, i.e.)
handsmile
@Ridnik Chrome: (#124)
Before you slowly clap a second time for the Emperor Bloomberg, please note that the Tompkins Square Park police riot (to which I believe you’re referring) occurred during the administration of Mayor Ed Koch.
The aggressive and unlawful behavior of the NYPD and other security personnel during the 2004 Republican presidential convention, conducted with Blloomberg’s explicit approval, far surpassed in scope, if not in outright brutality, the Tompkins Square riot.
While Giuliani in the months following the September 11 attack considered suspending the city charter prohibition on three consecutive mayoral terms, the billionaire Bloomberg orchestrated a well-financed and media-intensive campaign, ultimately successful, to overturn this law in 2009.
In reviewing actions by the Bloomberg administration and the man himself over the past ten years, I could not readily agree that there has been a more “vindictive reactionary prick.”
harlana
so interesting, all the comments about how dirty the protestors are and how they are stinking up the city. i’ve never been to NYC, but from everything i’ve heard lately from people who work/worked there/live there, it’s not exactly pristine on most days. i heard a joke on the radio today that “NYC is the only city that makes it’s own gravy” (after it rains).
Martin
@Bill E Pilgrim: Has anyone noticed that the rise of shitty overpriced coffee coincides with the start of municipal water fluoridation? Coincidence or evidence of an insidious emo hipster conspiracy?
Ridnik Chrome
@handsmile: I agree with you, actually. My comment was not intended as praise for Bloomberg (or as extremely ironic praise) — rather, I was marveling that Giuliani managed to lower the bar for asshole behavior (he sent cops to arrest people who were holding a candlelight vigil for John Lennon, for God’s sake) so far that someone like Bloomberg could hop right over it, simply by being slightly less of an asshole. Why do you think Bloomberg succeeded in getting himself a third term, where Giuliani failed?
(And yes, I do remember who was mayor in 1988. Koch was no great shakes, either, but he was still less of a shit than Rudy.)
burnspbesq
@some guy:
If that was your takeaway from my explanation of what I do, you are too fucking stupid for me to bother with.
burnspbesq
@some guy:
Lloyd Blankfein. As far as I know, no jury has convicted him of anything yet. Taibbi called him a criminal.
As noted in my comment 105, “outrageous” and “illegal” are not the same thing. Apparently neither you nor Taibbi understand that.
burnspbesq
@Professor:
I would have accurately described what they did, and if I had video I would have run it. In that case, the facts speak for themselves. No sentient being needs me to tell them that the NYPD’s conduct was outrageous.
The only thing that might have needed to be added was that that conduct might arguably have violated applicable New York State law and NYPD regulations, but I wouldn’t say that myself, because although I am a lawyer, that is not my area of practice. I would have gotten a serious expert in the area to opine (which wouldn’t be hard, because if I reported on criminal justice issues I would have the head of my local ACLU chapter on speed-dial), and if they weren’t willing to opine on the record and for attribution, I wouldn’t have used that part.
cinesimon
burnspbesq: I would just love to see the discovery in that libel case.
Taibi would be vindicated beyond any accountability advocate’s wildest dreams.
And that why it’s not libel.
Do you really believe that if someone hasn’t been arrested for a crime, then it follows that they have not committed a crime?
Or is this simply cherry picking one case because you like to see the middle class being stolen from and defrauded legally due to law changes successfully lobbied for by robber barons?
The fact you choose only to relay one cherry-picked tidbit from Taibi’s excellent, well sourced and thoroughly checked reporting – and his honest and obvious conclusions, suggests you’re really not interested in discovering the truth about what is right and what is wrong in today’s crumbling world.
it’s as if, unless it’s string you in the face, you side with those who’ve brought in more income in the last decade than in the previous century before that – while the vast majority of people have their incomes reduced. But that’s OK, because you didn’t see Blankfein rob anyone with a gun – so he simply can’t have done anything wrong!
John Woo attentions to legalize torture, and Cheney/Bush used his arguments to torture. It was still illegal. But they weren’t arrested.
I’m sure you also think now that torture is fully legal, and if anyone does it to U.S troops, the perpetrators were just following orders and need face no repercussions.
That OK too?
burnspbesq
@cinesimon:
Congratulations on burning down an entire acre of straw men.
Search the archives of this blog for any comments in which I have said any of the things you falsely attribute to me. Take all the time you need. You won’t find anything.
But that’s ok. I surely don’t want to get in the way of your delicious fantasy life. Is Rachel Maddow straight in your parallel universe? If so, I’d like to move there.
Paul in KY
@burnspbesq: That’s his opinion. he thinks Mr. Blankfein is a criminal. I also think he’s a criminal. Have I ‘libeled’ him?