Pass one of the damn bills. JUST ONE! It won’t hurt. I promise.
When the Republicans voted in unison to avoid even a debate about President Obama’s American Jobs Act, President Obama told us he would not be giving up.
And true to his word, he hasn’t given up, even as it becomes increasingly apparent that Republicans will do nothing that might fix the economy, because fixing the economy could lead to the reelection of President Obama. (The horror! The horror!)
Yesterday, Republicans filibustered the Teachers and First Responders Back to Work Act, the portion of his jobs bill which would have sent 35 billion dollars to the states to save the jobs of teachers, firefighters, and police.
Two bills came up for vote, two bills were blocked by Republicans. President Obama asked the Republicans, “Hey, how do you feel about a bill that will create two million jobs?” In response, the Republicans flipped Obama the bird.
President Obama then said, “well, ok — what about this portion of the bill that will create 400,000 jobs? Jobs for people we like! Teachers, and firefighters, and police! (Oh my!)” In response, the Republicans farted in President Obama’s general direction.
And now, it’s on to the third bill — The Rebuild America Jobs Act, which is all about infrastructure, baby:
The Senate will hold a vote the first week of November on the $60 billion infrastructure portion of Obama’s Jobs Act, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) announced Friday.
The bill contains $50 billion for direct spending on transportation projects and $10 billion in seed money to start a National Infrastructure Bank. The spending would be paid for by a 0.7 percent tax on annual income above $1 million.
Republicans love infrastructure! Even so, they will likely block this bill, too. Here’s Steve Benen on the subject:
Will Republicans once again refuse to even allow a vote on the legislation? Probably. But infrastructure investments are another element of the Democratic jobs plan that enjoys broad national support, and which many GOP officials have conceded publicly creates jobs.
If Republicans are serious about giving the economy a boost — and I realize there’s some skepticism surrounding the assumption — there’s really no excuse for GOP senators to simply reject this measure out of hand. We have unemployed workers eager to help rebuild American infrastructure; we have a massive number of projects (roads, bridges, ports, runways, rail) that need repair; we have public demand for both jobs and improved infrastructure; and we have a bill that’s fully paid for through a popular financing plan.
Hell, the idea for the infrastructure bank was co-sponsored by Republican lawmakers.
Are there any GOP senators willing to do the right thing on this? We’ll find out for sure next week, but the answer still appears to be no.
Greg Sargent at The Plum Line adds some interesting context to this continuing jobs saga. First, Reid called out Republicans for their pathetic fealty to Grover Norquist and his abominable “no tax increases, no matter what” pledge:
“The Senate GOP has had a love affair for many years now with Grover Norquist — they will not touch any new revenues,” Reid said. “They are not in touch with reality or their own constituents. But they are in touch with Grover Norquist.”
Second, and perhap the most interesting bit about the conference call Reid held with reporters is the ass-backwards reaction by the reporters to President Obama and the Democrats’ decision to split up the American Jobs Act, and cram each portion up the GOP’s cramhole:
In a particularly interesting moment, reporters repeatedly pressed Reid to explain why he was going to force Republicans to vote this way, given that they have already said they’ll never support raising taxes. (It would be nice to see these reporters question Republicans as aggressively on why they won’t back policies that even GOP voters like, but that’s probably expecting too much.) But Reid refused to give ground, again and again pointing out that the public is on the side of Dems, and against Republicans, on this issue.
Got it? The media expects the Democrats to kneel before Zod Grover as well: if Democrats know that Republicans will never support raising taxes, why are they wasting our time? Gosh! Democrats are a bunch of stoopidheads. (I would not be surprised if Chuck Todd is among those who asked that question; the man is a bowl of useless.)
This sort of sentiment is ludicrous and symptomatic of a syphilitic media that is incapable of assigning the labels “ass” and “elbow” to the proper body parts.
Why isn’t the media haranguing Boehner, Cantor, McConnell and every single Republican who stalwartly refuses to even permit president Obama’s jobs act to be debated? Why isn’t the media demanding that Republicans explain why unseating President Obama is a priority paramount to creating jobs for Americans? Why isn’t the media asking Republicans why they seem more interested in installing tiny dictatorial governments in women’s uteri than in putting unemployed women back to work?
Silly rhetorical questions, I know. The “liberal” media is far more determined to figure out why the President doesn’t just give up and stop doing his job for the next twelve months. It’s like, what the hell is wrong with him? Who does he think he is? The Republicans have obviously chosen to sit around and play grab-ass all day — the real question is why won’t President Obama and the Democrats join them? What does President Obama have against rousing games of grab-ass? Is he unwilling to stand up to grab-ass? Is he caving to grab-ass?
These are important questions, and the American public demands answers.
Jesus take the wheel and drive me into a tree.
[via The Political Animal; via The Plum Line]
[cross-posted at Angry Black Lady Chronicles]
Rick Massimo
How could you possibly expect them to vote for a bill that was help together with some lame-ass Kinko’s binder clip? You must hate America.
arguingwithsignposts
ORLY?
what could possibly give him that idea?
Loviatar
Wow, Obama sure is pretty active on that job creation front;
1) He is working the bully pulpit (townhalls).
2) He is pushing Democrats in the legislature to put up bills for votes even though they may not pass.
3) He is calling out Republicans and not worrying about hurting someones feelings.
.
Hmmm, I wonder whats different now than over the past 3 years. Hmmm, maybe someones up for reelection and is trolling for votes, maybe.
capt
Will out of work rank and file GOPers vote for their party?
Hmm?
ruemara
I’m sorry. Thom Hartmann, Dave Sirota, John Fuegelsang, Norman Goldman, Ed Schultz and various others have told me that the President doesn’t know how to fight for anything. He’s soft and doesn’t understand negotiation or standing your ground. Many here have told me he is a pussy and a tool of Wall Street. Ergo, things you have said have occurred, have not really occurred. Please correct your error. Now, when he can make a deal to get something passed by say, preventing prosecution of a hate crime or something, or interning Arabs in camps, then he’ll be a fighter.
arguingwithsignposts
More to the point, when the Dems continue to refuse to play grab-ass, the villagers have to show up and report, instead of doing fluff pieces on $16 muffins.
SiubhanDuinne
ABL, did you read the execrable Jennifer Rubin in today’s WaPo? ( I won’t link, you know how to get there if you feel the need.) Because, see, what you’re not understanding is that the failure of all these jobs bills in the Senate is totally the Dems’ fault, because they hate Obama because he’s a millstone around their neck and will keep them from being re-elected.
piratedan
@Loviatar: well the economic kiss of death that the R’s have been frenching the country with sure has me anxious to vote for them! Yes, I’d like my debt ceiling with mirrors please!
arguingwithsignposts
@Loviatar:
If you hadn’t been bedridden with chronic butthurt, you might have noticed Obama out doing townhalls back during the ACA debate, or, IDK, checked the presiden’s weekly schedule for the past three years before you came up with that bullshit.
Jenny
The media probably got the idea from watching Hamsher kneel before Grover and service him.
El Cid
__
“RAJA”?
Obama’s trying to surrender us all to an Indian monarchy from Vedic-Hindu warrior caste tradition!
ruemara
@El Cid:
Win. Your internets will arrive shortly.
ABL
@El Cid: FTW.
ABL
@SiubhanDuinne: parody. the village is a caricature of itself.
ABL
@SiubhanDuinne: much like when mcconnell said that it’s obama’s fault republicans are doing jackshit because obama keeps sending them bills they don’t like.
it’s just parody, at this point.
WereBear (itouch)
At least it’s not the Thuggees.
ABL
@arguingwithsignposts:
ah, see, your mistake is thinking it “came up” with that bullshit. it has no original thought and is, in fact, fed the aforementioned bullshit. what we are witnessing is simply the regurgitation of that bullshit.
arguingwithsignposts
@ABL: like a hairball. Got it.
GuanoFaucet
@arguingwithsignposts: Nicely done.
JC
Keep pounding this strategy, for the next year.
harlana
Republicans, cannabilized by ideology.
Calouste
Reid is wrong there. The GOP is in touch with their constituents. Except that their constituents are not voters as is normally understood, but the Norquisling and his ilk. The GOP works very hard to get their constituents what they want. Those pesky voters, not so much, therefore the fewer voters, the better.
JC
The only drawback I can see, is that – REPORTERS – and this is already beginning to be the case, based on the quote:
“reporters repeatedly pressed Reid to explain why he was going to force Republicans to vote this way, given that they have already said they’ll never support raising taxes.”
Reporters will continue want to ‘move on’ from Republican intransigence – because that’s old news, it’s boring, want a new shiny object, faux objectivity, ‘the new normal’, etc – and even though Republican intransigence is the story, will begin to blame Obama!! for not moving on from ‘creating jobs’.
As if Obama and the Democrats have ANYTHING BETTER to do, over the next year, than continue to propose to create jobs. Actually GETTING A BILL SIGNED would be better, but that’s the Rethugs issue, not the democrats.
It is what we elect them for.
patrick II
I was just listening to Hannity on the radio on the way home. He informed me that once again Obama has failed — this time he has failed to get a jobs bill through congress. What an incompetent.
Hunter Gathers
I don’t see why we should care. The Village has informed me that a white middle-aged male from Illinois might vote for Romney because Obama keeps getting cock blocked by the GOP, so what’s the use? I mean, if Obama can’t get middle-aged idiot crackers to vote for him, who will? Minorities and women don’t count. Only Real ‘Muricans interviewed by Bobo and JokeLine count.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@ruemara:
Those things have been true, no question. However, surely it is possible for people to change their ways, isn’t it? I for one think so. Don’t be such a gloomy Gus, and turn that frown upside-down! :)
.
.
Calouste
@JC:
Obama and Reid would like to have a vote that shows the GOP voting against jobs and for millionaires every single week from now until next November, if not more often. Of course, a lot of
reportersmedia personalities are millionaires, so they are rather queasy about talking about this.harlana
@ruemara: some of the people listed also defend the President,on a regular basis, as well. Ed Schultz did nothing today but bitch about how republicans don’t want to give the President any credit for his foreign policy accomplishments. people here talk about liberals wanting ponies, but those same people want those who are basically on their side, to give them ponies as well. just saying.
Loviatar
Stroke harder guys, you’re close, just a little longer now, only 13, 14 more months.
arguingwithsignposts
@Loviatar: troll harder, or come back when you’ve got game.
geg6
I must say that I am truly admiring the spinal transplant that Senator Reid has recently had. I like how the Senate is working in tandem with the White House, for once, instead of cowering in a corner and leaving the President twisting in the wind. I hope they bring up a new jobs bill every two weeks until November 2012.
Mike in NC
Frickin’ Chuck Todd probably fantasizes about being President Mitt Romney’s press secretary.
Roger Moore
Unfortunately, nobody in the media would ever dare ask this question.
Xboxershorts
Look Loviatara and Ruemara, regardless of his requirement to bow to the financial powers that be, he has already managed to push more progressive legislation through a fully confrontational congress than the last democrat.
And he NEVER gets a fair shake in the media because the media is so afraid of being labeled “liberal” they never even consider pressing the opposition party on their treasonous obstruction.
I’m no Obamabot, I deplore the expansion of American Empire. And I wish he’d fire Timmy Geithner.
But God Damn people. When it’s obvious he’s trying, regardless of election or not, find it within your vold cold hearts to at least fucking acknowledge that he IS fighting back.
We owe the folks of OWS for pushing the narrative in the media back towards reality too. It does give this president some political breathing room to do some really difficult pushback.
Erik the Red
.
Ok, first of all:
ABL, you’re a pretty woman.
Now that I got that out of the way…
No jobs bill proposed by the Prez will EVER get passed by this Congress. Period. That was expected.
Mark S.
What a puss:
Dickless was nice enough to send his speech to the campus newspaper, and of course it’s execrable:
Blech
Roger Moore
@geg6:
I suspect this is because they know damn well that nothing is going to pass. If there’s a risk something will happen, they all have to worry about whether the outcome will be enough better for the voters that it’s worth pissing off their big money donors. As long as they know that the Republicans are going to block everything so it’s just posturing, they feel perfectly comfortable standing up doing stuff that will make the other guys look bad. It’s the same way the Republican House feels perfectly confident passing crazy ass stuff that they know will never make it past the Senate.
WereBear (itouch)
I think OWS just might be sticking some burrs under complacent saddles. People are just not putting up with the same old crap.
I am thrilled that the Republican willingness to throw the entire country under the bus is not being ignored.
Loviatar
You know what the sad thing is, everything Obama is doing now for jobs creation is what was asked of him 3 years ago for healthcare.
Also, too bad his big push for jobs creation is 3 years too late.
Cliff in NH
@Loviatar:
He got the votes to fund the govt, now that the Needs are taken care of, it’s time for the wants.
Steve
@Roger Moore: Nothing in the jobs bills is bad for the big money donors. We are not talking about bank regulation here.
Roger Moore
@Loviatar:
You may not have noticed, but he got healthcare reform passed.
Insomniac
@Loviatar: Your timeline is off…he hadn’t been elected yet in 10/2008 – three years ago.
Loviatar
@Roger Moore:
No he got an expanded Insurance scheme passed.
Davis X. Machina
@Steve: Shit. Property still ain’t theft.
Jenny
THIS IS HILARIOUS111!111
The Professional Left showed up at Zuccotti Park to hawk their websites and tee vee shows and they got boooed.
One of the OWS protesters yelled the PL “is full of shit!”.
And then the Professional Left got mad at the protesters for…. wait for it… video taping.
The douchebag Professional Lefty media member specifically said, “it’s not a free country for you to stick your camera in my face!”. #RollingOntheFloorLaughingMyFuckingAssOff
What a fucking hoot. A member of the media and a supposed populist saying, “it’s not a free country for you to stick your camera in my face!”
See, only the elite members of the Professional Left should be allowed cameras.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dgqJ29HzfZg
Baud
@Loviatar:
Wow, so the last two decades of liberals screaming about the number of Americans who lack health insurance were meaningless. Got it!
SiubhanDuinne
@Mark S.:
Politicizing Steve Jobs. Nice.
ruemara
@harlana:
Regular? We have very different definitions of regular. I can guarantee you that the next difference will become a capitulation, sold us out, weak, a pussy, yaddayadda. Sorry, but I only make common cause with them because we have common goals and I am through going along to get along with progressives.
@Xboxershorts: It’s called “sarcasm”. And it needs an official font for the internets.
El Cid
@Jenny: Dylan Ratigan is now “the Professional Left”?
Man, the definition of “left” sure has changed.
MikeJ
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, the same Steve Jobs that told Obama not to be so mean to business people. I think that was right after Obama’s (as yet unfulfilled, damn him!) promise to nationalise Apple.
Xboxershorts
@Jenny:
I never really considered Dylan Ratigan part of the professional left. And this lie that has the OWS guy so upset with Ratigan is never clearly explained either.
I want context please. Blanket condemnation is just as bad as every other news organization that is regularly demonized here and elsewhere.
This from Dylan still resonates: http://youtu.be/gIcqb9hHQ3E
C’mon….gimme context
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
Didn’t you know? All of those people were supposed to continue to die and go bankrupt if Loviatar couldn’t get his/her perfect healthcare reform bill the very first time.
Never mind that every country that has universal healthcare has gone through a minimum of 30 or 40 years of changes and refinement to get their system to the point it’s at now — if the US couldn’t get perfect healthcare reform the very first time we passed a national law, then we shouldn’t have done anything at all.
Brian S
@Xboxershorts: You have to admit, Ratigan complaining that someone in the crowd is filming him is a little ridiculous, regardless of whatever else is going on.
Xboxershorts
@Brian S: I usually obtain permission before I photograph or video tape someone. But indeed, this is not a normal circumstance either. Still, context is missing from that exchange and Ratigan is a capitalist with a brain and a heart (I think). A leftist in the same sense John Cole is…the republican party is just nucking futs they drove many of us out long ago…Ratigan as part of the professional left seems out of sorts to me.
Observer
@Mnemosyne:
What the hell are you talking about? This is a nonsense statement. Canada’s first universal medicare was created in 1962. The UK’s in 1948. Like any other gov’t program, they’ve both had changes in it since. The core nature of both hasn’t changed. So has every other Western country and most have been around for more than 40 years so your statement is technically true but nonsense nevertheless. EDIT: unless you’re saying that time travel exists of course they’ve existed and such to “get to where they are now”. Where did you think they were going?
Can you name any Western healthcare system, except possibly the Swiss, that started out like this Obamacare POS with b.s. subsidies and bogus scam exchanges and such.
Can you point to more than one country large enough, say over 10 million people, that has had anything resembling this ACA turd you’re trying to pass off?
Corner Stone
@El Cid:
Makes one wonder how far to the right JennBot3000 is that Ratigan is to her left.
Corner Stone
@Baud:
Last time I checked, most sensible people were more concerned about “care” than “insurance”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Observer: Can you name any other Western country that has had its dick in its hand for as long as the US about passing any kind of health care legislation? If it were easy to pass something sensible here, we would have had it by the end of the 1950s.
General Stuck
Pure stupidity wrote this
Baud
@Corner Stone:
Then I guess all those people talking about the number of Americans without health insurance were idiots.
Corner Stone
@Baud:
Just misguided by a false argument. Lots of people have insurance they can’t use, or that doesn’t give them the result they need.
When you think of getting well, do you think about the level of care, or the insurance premiums?
Nutella
Since they filibustered the Teachers and First Responders Back to Work Act which would save the jobs of firefighters it’s clear that the Republicans want us all to DIAF.
LTMidnight
@Loviatar:
This has got to be the most brain-dead argument that way too many emo-frustrati make.
Last time I checked, a president has his whole term (4 years) to make good on his promises.
Too bad Obama didn’t know he was working under Loviator’s time table.
General Stuck
Well, obviously, the US doesn’t or hasn’t seen it the way other western countries have. And is why there has been exactly zero national policy with any sort of national regulation on it’s health care system in toto.
And many have tried for a hundred years to get even a smattering of basic regulation and have failed. Including about every dem president since TR, who tried as well, and failed.
So it is now a failure, in THIS particular country, with this particular president, to get passed reform with good regulation, though still private market based? This is American, land of right wing fools that see a commie behind every tree, when they don’t see a terrorist there, or big scary black men.
We have lot of right wing fools, more than enough to stop short of ditching the private system for the collective, but they couldn’t stop the first set of regs for the bloodsuckers, and 30 million more peeps that can afford primary care in this country, that are out of luck without private HC INSURANCE. That is enough, for now.
Mnemosyne
@Observer:
Can you name any other Western country that had a for-profit healthcare system when they first started out?
I do love how you simultaneously admit that, say, Canada’s system today is not the same as the system that was originally set up in 1962 and claim that PPACA is set in stone and can’t be changed in any way so it’s going to be exactly the same 40 years from now as it is today. Reality-based, that’s what you are.
Hill Dweller
Obama has said numerous times he would implement single payer if starting from scratch. Alas, he wasn’t.
The Swiss system is a great example to emulate. They were the last country to transition from a strictly for-profit system to a more regulated universal system.
In fact, the Swiss system is almost identical to what the “Obamacare” aspires to. The one glaring difference is the Swiss regulate/limit the profit margins of the insurance companies.
Baud
@Corner Stone:
That question doesn’t even make any sense. Insurance is what you think about before you get sick so you can focus on getting well when you get sick. Because of ACA, millions of Americans will have that opportunity.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Which is why ACA has a bunch of stuff about coverage requirements, non-rescission, no lifetime caps, etc. It covers a hell of a lot of ground, and a bunch of it is supposed to make existing coverage better.
MikeJ
@Roger Moore: Not to mention the fact that insurance companies actually have to spend the premiums on health care or give the money back.
Loviatar
@MikeJ:
.
Have you ever worked
for a major corporation? Who the hell gives money back?.
And they call us naive.
.
Mnemosyne
@Loviatar:
Yes, why bother to regulate businesses at all? After all, they’re only going to find ways around the law, so let’s just not even bother to make rules for them to follow. Good plan!
magurakurin
@Loviatar: I suppose I should try to be civil, but I pretty sure you are just a lying sack of shit with dubious political alliances. In other words, not on my team. But in fact, laws matter, policy matters and the insurance companies do have to pay back money.
But, yeah, no bully pulpit, Obama lied, sellout, not a dime’s worth of difference, Obama = Bush, and so on and so forth.
Also, too, If America ended up with Switzerland’s system, that would be bad, because….shut up???
LTMidnight
@Loviatar: You never did answer my question.
Was Obama aware he had to do things under your time table? Or, has Obama been under the impression that he had 4 – 8 years to make good on his promises?
Mnemosyne
@magurakurin:
Oh, you, with your silly “facts” and “reality.”
Corner Stone
What the hell good is insurance if you and your family go broke trying to use it?
SiubhanDuinne
@Nutella:
Fixed.
Fax Paladin
@El Cid: Even better, it’s a Democratic plan — a Blue RAJA, if you will…
Xecky Gilchrist
@Corner Stone: Good point – I agree that single-payer is the way to go.
General Stuck
@Xecky Gilchrist:
Well yea, we all do. But slamming having insurance as opposed to having none is kind of silly. And that is what the regs are for, so people don’t go broke trying to use their insurance, by getting dropped when they are sick and need it. Or any number of other shenanigans private insurers pull when they don’t want to pay for benefits.
It’s called progress, and we do it a little at a time in this country.
Loviatar
@LTMidnight:
I’m treating you with the same level of respect Obama has treated the unemployed for the last 3 years.
I’m ignoring you until I need something from you.
Loviatar
@73 – magurakurin:
Regarding your big insurance payback gotcha, you should of quoted the rest of the story where they talk about why there are paybacks.
Blue Shield to return $283 million in excess profits to policyholders
Hmmm, maybe I’ll put off that heart replacement so I can get a larger insurance payback next year.
Like I’ve said repeatedly PPACA = expanded Insurance scheme.
Marc McKenzie
@Loviatar:
“I’m treating you with the same level of respect Obama has treated the unemployed for the last 3 years.
I’m ignoring you until I need something from you.”
Jesus…talk about adolescent behavior on the level of a baby showing his pee-pee….
Corner Stone
@Loviatar: But I thought Insurance = Care ?
LTMidnight
@Loviatar: Except that Obama did something for the unemployed last year by getting them a 13 month extension on their benefits.
So you can answer my question now.
LTMidnight
@Marc McKenzie: What do you expect from a petulant spoiled brat throwing a tamtrum because Obama did give him his rainbow farting unicorn?
rikyrah
between them being confused about the 1-2 Punch of Moammar and exiting Iraq, and Reid not giving up and forcing votes…this is getting interesting.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Xboxershorts:
IMO Ratagan is a libertarian, at least that’s the way he comes across to me. I watch his show often and he makes me think he’s the Ron Paul of ‘news’. His show is interesting to watch but he’s no lefty.
Not even close to it.
Loviatar
@85 – LTMidnight:
What is with you guys with settling for shit sandwiches.
A quick treatise on settling:
– You settle for the moon after you’ve asked for the stars.
– You settle for Trump money after you’ve asked for Buffet money.
– You settle for extended UI after you’ve tried for a strong jobs bill (most people would much rather have a job than UI).
– You settle for an expanded Insurance scheme after you’ve tried for UHC or single payer.
You Obots have it all ass backwards; you first settle on the shit sandwich then complain after that we on the left are asking for too much.
———
.
I so want to be a dick with my response, but I’ve decided not to sink to the level of your question.
.
.
No and so we shouldn’t question the great leader on his failure to achieve certain policy objectives.
.
General Stuck
– You settle for the moon after you’ve asked for the stars.
– You settle for Trump money after you’ve asked for Buffet money.
– You settle for extended UI after you’ve tried for a strong jobs bill (most people would much rather have a job than UI)
If Obama had done it this way, you fuckers would hollering sellout capitulator Obama, even louder than you do now.
The hcr debate wasn’t with the wingnuts, it was within the dem caucus, completely. Duh. Go to war with your own side? Now there’s a plan. It’s a wonder how some of you dress yourselves in the morning, let alone operate a computer, and who fits the day’s drool cup round your faces.
General Stuck
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
No he’s not. But he does try to hitch his wagon to the prog activist community, for I suspect viewership and staying in line with the other actual lefties in the MSNBC pundit lineup.
piratedan
@Fax Paladin: tyvm for the Mystery Men shout out, dunno why I loved that movie… maybe because I thought The Flaming Carrot rocked!
karen marie
@Xboxershorts: Ratigan is a self-serving asshole. That “rant” of his did no one any favors. It was incoherent shoutiness that did nothing to inform the viewer but, to my eye, was a performance to impress a certain audience who, once captured, he can exploit for his own gain, which is what he was doing, at least in part, at Zuccotti Park.
Whatever the basis for the accusation of lying is really irrelevant. The protestor’s point at the end is valid.
Thymezone
@Loviatar:
All bullshit. Government by its nature IS a shit sandwich. The only thing at issue is the flavor of the shit and the amount of nutrients in the shit.
So let’s put that appealing metaphor aside for the moment. What you don’t get, unless I am reading your post wrong (which is possible since I avoid reading entire threads at all costs, since they are mostly trash) is that if you don’t want a shit sandwich government, you are going to have to elect a WHOLE GOVERNMENT that can produce the better sandwich. One guy isn’t going to do it, never has, never will. The system is rigged against that, thankfully, otherwise some stupid asshole like Cain could get elected and sink the country in six months.
In order to get a government that is a nice pastrami sandwich instead, you have to get the people to elect one. And right now it has not been shown to be possible to do that, and the intransigence is getting worse, and not better. If you want a better sandwich, you are going to have to fix the sandwich makers, and ranting about Obama is not going to get it done. It’s not only ineffective, it’s dishonest and bone ass stupid.
Loviatar
@90 – General Stuck:
Glad to see you can read my mind. You want to take a guess at what I’m thinking now.
.
———
.
.
Obama’s jobs plan blocked in Senate
.
Senate blocks money for teachers, firefighters
.
Hmmm, you and the other Obots don’t seem to worried about the dem caucus now, too bad, we could have used some of that blase attitude 3 years ago with HCR..
LTMidnight
@Loviatar:
This was fucking retarded when I heard some emo-frustrati say this a year ago and it’s even more retarded today.
The root word in “progressive” is “PROGRESS”. By this whole screed you admit progress has been made. You’re just butthurt because Obama didn’t turn America into Moonbat Nirvana in 6 months or less.
If this was 1936, you would be calling FDR’s The New Deal “a shit sandwich”. Nothing satisfies you but your own conjured up moonbat world. Anything short of that and you reject it.
No kid, us Obots know the history of this country, which is progress has always been painstakingly slow and that allows us to show a little more patience, unlike your “all or nothing” club that always ends up being nothing.
You obviously didn’t understand my question even though I tried to use as few big words as possible. Because your answer pretty much equated to “Obama should’ve done what I wanted, when and hot I wanted it”. And like I said, I think he was under the impression that he has 4 – 8 years to fulfill his promises.
LTMidnight
@Loviatar:
3 years ago was October 21, 2008 (14 days before Obama was even elected.
You might get taken a little more seriously if you were to keep your time line straight, kid.
General Stuck
@Loviatar:
Jeebus, Don’t know why I even bothered to reply to you.
General Stuck
@LTMidnight:
Thanks, loviatar makes my teeth hurt from the stupid.
Loviatar
@94 – Thymezone:
See this is the problem I have with you guys, you think because you’re practical and pragmatic that anyone outside of your point-of-view has to hold an extreme point-of-view. Not true, I have no problem with compromise, in fact, I welcome compromise because it usually means we’re looking at an improved solution.
However, whatever compromise is being negotiated should be on the terms of the leaders at the table, which for the past 3 years meant Democrats who hold 2/3 of the branches of government. Instead for the past 3 years we’ve comprised on the terms of the Republicans who are the minority partners in the relationship. I’m unhappy with those circumstances and I blame my leadership.
You keep telling us that Obama has done the best he could do considering the circumstances, I say bullshit, Obama has done the minimum he could do considering the circumstances.
———-
Summary; I’m not opposed to compromise, but it should be on my terms if I hold 2/3 of the government. PPACA is the Republican version of healthcare = an expanded Insurance scheme with giveaways to big business.
Loviatar
@97 – LTMidnight:
.
You keep saying it like it means something. I thought using 3 years as a general rule was fine, but go ahead and be pedantic if it strokes your ego.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@Corner Stone:
If it’s not actually your family, it might get you re-elected president, if people don’t understand the difference between insurance and care and you make sure you never explicitly explain the difference so they do understand. C’mon, man, think positively!
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Thymezone
You are off to a terrible start. YOu cannot even approach my blast on its own terms. I said your approach was ineffective, not extreme. And it is ineffective, and you know it is, which is why you nod to my practicality. Of course I am practical. What is the alternative in politics other than fucking practicality?? Flying airplanes into buildings? Yes, I am practical, and I expect the same from my political mates. So if it’s not the practical approach that makes you lie and say I am calling you extreme, it must be the “dishonest” blast. Well, your position does appear dishonest for exactly the reason that it takes practicality and tries to portray it as weakness, or stubbornness, or whatever. You have a problem with calling things what they are, and that is what my problem is with you. You are sold out to your own rhetoric and you have lost sight of the realities. The reality is as I described it, the people cannot elect a government that can work together. That’s so obvious I should not even have to say it. But you still don’t get it … you still think it’s about Obama. Obama is one guy, there are a few hundred other guys in congress and all the laws come from them. That’s the reality, and until you talk from that reality, you are not being honest. Period. Dot.
Fix the congress, the rest of the problems take care of themselves. Of course, that is a thousand times harder than I just made it sound. But that is the whole point, it is that hard. And your rants will not put a dent in that steel wall of intransigence, ever, in any way shape or form.
Strandedvandal
My GOD! That numbnut Lovitard LOVES him some PIE! Slow down kid, you’ll surely go into sugar shock.
Loviatar
@103 – Thymezone:
blah, blah, blah. whatever
.
You know whats the most amusing thing to me right now; all of tactics that were suggested by the left 3 years ago to Obama and Reid in order to get UHC or a single payer plan are now being used for the job plan. At the time we were told that they were ineffective and wouldn’t work.
I wonder whats changed.
—–
Tactics:
1) Use the bully pulpit, travel to your opponents district to make your speeches
2) Call regular votes on various aspects of the plan to highlight just how anti-middle class your opponents votes
3) Ignore the naysayers within you caucus and if they bolt punish them
4) Use the rules to hammer your opponent and get your legislation passed. Don’t worry about their feelings thats not your job.
5) Use your success or failure to attack your opponent in next election.
.
magurakurin
@Loviatar: Look, you said we were naive because a mere law would never compel any company to pay back money. You punctuated it by using a cross implying that corporations control absolutely everything and they never ever give money back. I did a 30 second search and came back with an example of a company giving money back. Here is another
The biggest insurer by revenue is making plans to…give back money. Nobody here thinks the Affordable Care Act was slam dunk/touchdown/home run solution to what ails the health care system in America. More or less everyone here would have preferred single payer. Obama himself said during the campaign that if he would prefer single payer if the whole system was starting from scratch. But it isn’t. This was a huge step in the right direction. The law is going to make a difference in real terms right now and in the sense that it has finally opened the door for ongoing and continuing change. But, you know that. Make sure the checks are good…
Rome Again
Ummmm, exactly how many Far Left presidents have we had?
Loviator’s upset because he thought Obama was Far Left when he never was. He campaigned from a centrist position.
Thymezone
Yeah, fuck you you troll ass motherfucker. You sit on this blog like a gallstone and make 200 posts to my one, and I am doing blah blah blah? You think blog commentary is saying the same stupid and shitty things about one guy over and over and that somehow makes you right? It doesn’t make you right, it just makes you tone deaf. You haven’t made a coherent response to a single thing I said.
Take your two bit line of bullshit and shove it up your ass.
Thymezone
@Loviatar:
No shit. Really? You haven’t figured anything out in three years? Then maybe you should spend less time here telling everybody how wrong they are and more time getting some useful information? Just a suggestion.
Loviatar
@107 Rome Again:
Another Obot who claims he can read my mind. I tell you the same thing I told him, go ahead, guess at what I’m thinking now.
———-
I thought he campaigned as a Democrat, instead we got a 90s era Republican.
Rome Again
Apparently there are no centrist Democrats? We’re in trouble if that’s the reality. We will never win elections on Far Left policy. Democrat doesn’t mean Far Left, but apparently you don’t know the difference.
Loviatar
@106 – magurakurin:
Last time you did a search and paste to justify your point I showed that the reason for the Insurance paybacks were due to people cutting back on medical care and putting off treatments until they can afford it. That doesn’t seem to speak well of the payback system.
Rome Again
You don’t go from a Far Right Republican to a Far Left Democrat overnight. Progressives are shifting policy further left as we go, but it doesn’t happen all at once. Obama was a Centrist, campaigned as a Centrist, and is governing as a Centrist.
Rome Again
You know Loviator, if you go through the list of Obama’s accomplishments (and there are many), you can cut that list down significantly if you pair a Far Left Democrat President with Republicans holding Cloture rules. You should be thankful for what you are getting. It could be a LOT worse. One nice thing about winning re-election in 2012 (I will be supporting him) is that he can move even further left after that election. It still won’t be Far Left (that would be out of character for him) but it will be more left than we’ve had.
Loviatar
@11 – Rome Again:
I was going to write whole comment listing all of the items that used to be supported by Democrats that are now according to the Obots are Far Left policies, but then I said whats the point.
The window has moved so far right that Obama is considered a liberal, the Democratic party is led by 90s era Republicans, a substantial part of its base are former Republicans, like I said whats the point.
boss bitch
@WereBear (itouch):
Sorry, what Dems/Obama are doing now is not because of OWS.
Rome Again
Loviator, please cite for me the Far Left Presidents we’ve had in the past? Far Left policy has never really been tried, and if we are to get there, it takes time to ply the electorate to take us there. You cannot get there on your own.
Loviatar
@113 – Rome Again:
No check his accomplishments and his policy statements, he is a 90s era Republican.
I’ve asked this question before, has Obama done anything you could not see a George W. Bush or a Ronald Reagan doing?
Shit, he hasn’t done anything Mitt Romney wouldn’t do, in fact his signature domestic policy accomplishment is modeled off of a Mitt Romney plan.
Rome Again
Apparently you don’t have the word Centrist in your vocabulary. Such a shame, it would explain so much! You will never understand unless you understand what centrism is. Obama could not win in 2008 if he had not campaigned from the middle. The country isn’t just a bunch of people JUST LIKE YOU.
Rome Again
Repeal of DADT! (off the top of my head) :P
Loviatar
@107 – Rome Again:
Another one who keeps repeating himself like it means something.
– How many Socialist presidents have we had?
– How many Fascist presidents have we had?
– How many Communist presidents have we had?
The point you’re trying to make doesn’t compute, the policies that you disparage as Far Left used to be core policies of the Democratic party. Instead of trying to score cheap points, the question you should be asking is, who was the last Democratic president who governed like a Democrat?
El Cid
I’m sick and tired of The Professional Left like Compton’s Encyclopedia or Elisha Otis or the color mauve. The fucking emo-progs such as those asshole prime numbers or the traitorous sounds of hummingbird wings will never be satisfied. I’m just waiting for the Ghostdancers or Pierre Mulele to pal up to Grover Norquist. And all you whiners can complain that these types aren’t the Professional Left, but you know where you can stick it.
Rome Again
@El Cid:
Is that what we’re calling Firebaggers these days? I don’t get the “Professional” part. What’s so professional about it? I’ve been away, can you tell?
boss bitch
This thread is a perfect example of why Repubs get away with their near treasonous behavior. There are always a handful of loud mouths who turn around and blame everything on Obama or the Democrats and so the whole conversation becomes about defending his record to liars and shit stirrers like Loviator instead of how to hold Repubs accountable.
Stop responding to trolls and we won’t have threads littered with their bullshit.
Loviatar
@120 – Rome Again:
Really, you couldn’t see any of the three Republicans I named signing the repeal of DADT.
You couldn’t see any of the three Republicans I named follow the advice of their uniformed commanders and the wishes of Congress and the majority of the American people by signing the repeal of DADT.
I guess you got me there, I didn’t know those three gentlemen were raging bigots on the level of Rick Santorum.
Rome Again
No, I couldn’t see Reagan or Romney repeal DADT. Furthermore George W. Bush had the opportunity and DIDN’T!
One thing you forget about all three of these people, Reagan and Bush were beholden to the religious right. Romney is a man who considers himself deeply religious. They all believe the Bible forbids homosexuality.
Kane
What does it say about the Republican party platform, their ideas, and the core of what they stand for when they place their entire agenda on a cynical approach to ensure that the economy doesn’t improve in the desperate hope that it will reflect poorly on the president in the next election?
I don’t know what amazes me more; that Republicans would blatantly and openly attempt to sabotage the country for their political self-interest, or the fact that they have the political cover to attempt to pull it off.
Rome Again
Somehow I don’t see this man taking a moral stand on DADT.
Loviatar
@119 – Rome Again:
I don’t know about you but in the 90s these guys would have been considered conservative Democrats or Republicans, now there moderate/centrist Dems with Webb listed all the way on the left/liberal pole. Jim Webb as a liberal (shaking head).
Ben Nelson
Jim Webb
El Cid
@Rome Again: The fact that you’re asking the question makes you a Firebagger, just like how cedar wood can use an entire Elvis just to try and make Obama look bad.
Rome Again
@Kane:
Whether they have the political cover to pull it off remains to be seen.
Loviatar
@129 – Rome Again:
I said nothing about a moral stand. My question was could you see him signing it under the same circumstance with which Obama signed the repeal.
Rome Again
@El Cid:
Ummm, Firebaggers are all about criticizing our president, please point to one statement I’ve made that would confirm me in that way.
Rome Again
@Loviatar:
Why would a president repeal DADT if not for a moral stand? Are you trying to say that the idea would gain monumental support from the establishment? It didn’t and it never would. A large part of the electorate (the religious right) would always oppose it.
Loviatar
@126 – Rome Again: @Rome Again:
I’m sorry I was referring to 90s era Republicans and I meant George H. W. Bush.
Rome Again
So, now, Loviator, since I’ve played YOUR mental gymnastics game, it’s only fair that you play mine: Name the presidents who have governed from Far Left politics in the past history of this nation.
Rome Again
@Loviatar:
BULLSHIT! You look like a loser with that strategy.
Mitt Romney is a 90 era’s Republican? He was governor of Massachusetts from 2003-2007.
Loviatar
@134 – Rome Again:
Poll: 78 percent favor repealing ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell’
I give up, you win on DADT; Reagan, Bush I and Mitt Romney against the wishes of their uniformed military leaders, Congress and the American public would never sign the repeal of DADT.
Now back to my main point.
– – – – –
DADT, while a major issue to those directly impacted does not affect the majority of Americans. So once again please provide a policy that Obama has signed that you could not see Reagan, et al signing.
– – – – –
I responded to your centrist question from 119 but its caught in moderation.
Please go to this site On the Issues and and plug in Jon Tester, Ben Nelson and Jim Webb. All three are considered moderate/centrist Democrats with Jim Webb as the most liberal of the bunch, JIM WEBB as a liberal.
The window has shifted my friend and centrist doesn’t mean what it used to mean, just like Republican doesn’t mean what it used to mean. A centrist Democrat today is the equivalent of a 90s era Republican, A liberal Democrat is the equivalent of a 90s era centrist Democrat (Bill Clinton).
Rome Again
Apparently Loviator has run away with his tail between his legs after embarrassing himself and wasn’t fair enough to play my game. What an idiot!
Loviatar
@136 – Rome Again:
Another response caught in moderation. Here is what I wrote earlier.
– – – – –
– How many Socialist presidents have we had?
– How many Fascist presidents have we had?
– How many Communist presidents have we had?
The point you’re trying to make doesn’t compute, the policies that you disparage as Far Left used to be core policies of the Democratic party. Instead of trying to score cheap points, the question you should be asking is, who was the last Democratic president who governed like a Democrat?
Loviatar
@139 – Rome Again:
I’ve posted my response twice and both times its gone into moderation.
But thanks for the insults. I so love playing with Obots as soon as they get frustrated thats their default action, insults.
You win, I’m done.
Rome Again
You refuse to answer my question about how many Far Left presidents we’ve had in the history of this nation. You are not a fair debater. This discussion is over.
You think the window has shifted? I got news for you, you never had that window to begin with. You want to get there? It won’t happen if you help Republicans defeat the democratically elected Democratic president.
Rome Again
@Loviatar:
I deleted that post as soon as I saw you reply that it was in moderation.
magurakurin
@Loviatar: If you had read the second quote you would see that usage is up among UnitedHealth policy holders. And my point stands, companies can and will return money if and when required. You are the one who said it is naive to believe that a company can be compelled by law to return money. This is demonstrably not so.
And the reason the Administration is using the “bully pulpit” now is precisely because they feel there is no chance at all to get legislation through the Congress(there was an election you know and the House changed hands). During the ACA process they saw that there was a possibility to get some sort of legislation through the Congress. If they had used the strong tactics like you suggest, they probably wouldn’t have. Hillary Clinton’s attempts failed largely because she tried to force it through. Ted Kennedy said that the greatest mistake in his political life was not accepting Nixon’s offer of a health care program. A program that was, in fact, more liberal than what finally was able to get through a congress more than 30 years later. Imagine if Kennedy had given his support and the Nixon plan had gone through. Over the ensuing 30 years there would have no doubt been many changes and improvements. But like I said, you know that. Your just here for the paychecks.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Loviatar Translated:
Troll iz trolling.
Lysana
@Strandedvandal:
I came into this thread craving ice cream. I now crave pie a la mode. Maybe I should go get some Ben & Jerry’s Boston Cream Pie and split the difference.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@boss bitch:
You wish to hold Repubs accountable? Interesting. President Obama does not share your goal, as you very well know. Furthermore, balloonbaggers constantly take time out of their busy schedules to gratuitously run down progressives and liberals rather than Republicans. That makes you a Class A hypocrite, as all balloonbagger Cult of Personality worshippers are.
Don’t like my criticism? Change. If you do, I and those who share my interest in dummy re-education programs will disappear from here.
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Rome Again
I’m supposed to take something written by “Uncle Clarence Thomas” seriously? LMAO! WOW!
magurakurin
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
I’m guessing then you’re gonna be here a long time, because you efforts suck hard and your arguments and points are utterly unconvincing of anything other than that you are a dickhead. If you are here to change minds, I’m here to tell you that you really, really suck at your job/hobby/life’s calling. Miserable failure comes to mind as a descriptor.
Rome Again
Dummy Re-education programs are for those who take the name of vile people as adopt them as their own.
I’ve got no reason to listen to anything “Uncle Clarence Thomas” is trying to teach me.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@magurakurin:
Improved.
Rome Again
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
The remaining portion needs to be bolded! :P
El Cid
@Rome Again: Did you even read the words that I wrote? You cannot have. Point to a single comprehensible clause I’ve written in the past 2 comments. Else this is proof indeed at what a ridiculous robotic reaction people move to just by noticing the terms “Professional Left” or “Firebaggers” or “Emo-progs”. If you can read the two prior comments and come away from them thinking of them as serious arguments, you need either to cut down on the drugs or actually read a comment.
Quiddity
Obama did not use the free trade legislation, which was opposed by 30+ Democrats in the Senate, yet signed by him this week, to get concessions on a jobs bill.
William Hurley
Let’s be clear – and honest too.
Plouffe and Axelrod made the rounds, politely chatting with their Villager pals on the Sunday Morning “Pravda” circuit a month or so back touting the “wisdom” inherent in pushing a jobs “plan” even though they and the President know and knew that such a bill – in whole or parts – will not pass.
Yes, they said this out loud and, as rational minds expected, were at-once praised by Villagers for the theatrical value of the exercise(s), but also criticized for the divisiveness and anticipated tax burdens on their class (or class allegiances).
The problem with the bill, forget the “optics” for a moment, is that it would, at best, produce ~1.3MM jobs over 18 months – if passed unchanged from the original proposal.
In case you missed it, 1.3MM jobs is only a fraction of the total number needed. In fact, 1.3MM new jobs may not even dent the headline unemployment rate given the historically low EPR and Participation rates – and natural population growth. Of course, that is if the whole bill were to pass through Congress unmangled – a possibility that’s further from reality than Herm Cain’s NineNineNine nonsense.
If the soon to be unemployed President had pursued a similar but more robust package 14 months ago – instead of touring the nation during the Congressional recess instead of celebrating the “recovery summer” – he’d still have the unprecedented House & Senate majorities in place now and could do so many of the other things needed to right the listing ship of state.
William Black is right, unless and until Geithner, Holder and other facilitators of failure are fired, Obama doesn’t stand a chance.
This kubuki-like effort to hand-out “Hopey/Changey” gift cards that don’t even have a spendable balance on them is a true waste of time and tax payers’ monies.
Hark! It that a HARP? A HAMP? Could each be fixed or replaced by Executive Order???
They can if the Executive dares to execute, delivering change and actual hope to tens of millions drowning home-owners, condo-owners and renters whose land-lords are upside-down too. It’s even easier than self-indulgent theater! But the down-side is that there’s no fawning press interviews in each hamlet that a kabuki tour usually draws.
OWS = unBama
General Stuck
@William Hurley:
you keep fuckin’ that rat Butch, that’s what you do best.
OzoneR
@William Hurley:
Were you living under a rock 14 months ago?
Marc McKenzie
@William Hurley:
“William Black is right, unless and until Geithner, Holder and other facilitators of failure are fired, Obama doesn’t stand a chance.”
Hoo boy….okay then. Hmmm…well, looks like someone needs to put down the pipe and take a massive chill pill. And get their facts straight.
“OWS = unBama”
So you’re co-opting OWS now as an anti-Obama movement eh? Sheesh.
And one more thing–you can spout out “kabuki” all you want, but methinks that you have no bloody clue about what it really means.
You know, it would be so refreshing if folks like you, while giving honest criticism of the President, would let fly at the GOP @$$holes who are currently bending the country over the rail and giving it the business with no Vaseline. But noooo….you go after the one guy who’s trying to do something.
I need a drink.
Corner Stone
@Marc McKenzie:
Thank you for such a clear and powerful rebuttal! This! Times a googleplex!
Now..uh…was your argument that Geithner wasn’t a problem in this admin and didn’t sabotage certain initiatives? Or that the Obama WH will do fine with or without Geithner employed there because he’s just doing exactly what he’s ordered?