This just in… again.
This must have pained the Wall Street Journal to report:
Warren Buffett isn’t the only rich guy who wants to higher taxes on the rich.
A new survey from Spectrem Group found that 68% of millionaires (those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income. Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners.
Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers.
Rich people’s opinions of Buffett remain fairly positive in the wake of his tax-me-more crusade. More than a third of millionaires and ultra-high-net-worths said they have a more positive opinion of Buffett after his tax proposal. Only 19% of millionaires and 22% of the $5 million -plus group said they had a more negative opinion of him after the proposal.
More than 40% of both groups said their opinion hadn’t changed.
In other words, Buffett’s proposal had more supporters than detractors among the rich — though that support declines slightly as you move up the wealth ladder.
It amuses me that one of the questions posed was whether or not rich people still like Warren Buffett. As if he gives a shit. Oh pollsters — you so crazy.
As I said yesterday, it’s not up for debate: Americans — rich and poor — think the rich should pay their fair share. This new poll simply makes Paul “Why is Obama Picking on Rich People” Ryan look that much more silly.
I also said yesterday that the GOP just doesn’t give a fuck what you think because they signed a tax pledge with Grover Norquist, and tax pledges are forever.
I wonder when the curtain will drop on this political theatre. The Super Congress deadline is coming up, and if Republicans start up with their “let’s cut entitlements! no tax increases!” again, I think it just might actually damage them.
Hey! I said “might.”
[Angry Black Lady Chronicles]
J
Yes, the Norquist pledge seems destined to play a part like the personal oath of loyalty sworn by officers in the Wehrmacht to you know who as a blanket excuse for the abdication of personal responsibility.
Cat Lady
Buffett’s obviously waiting for his Soros bucks. Duh.
Odie Hugh Manatee
One thing that jumps out at me is that the more money they make, the less they want to pay taxes. In the case of raising taxes, the percentage of those making over five million who want their taxes raised is lower than those who make over one million and want their taxes raised. On their negative opinion of Buffett, the percentage of those making over five million is higher than the ones who make over one million.
Not surprised at all. Not one bit. Great post ABL. :)
Brachiator
OT: Another GOP candidate plays the Jebus card:
GOP candidate admits lesbian affair with ‘minor’ while working as school gym teacher… but claims Christianity ‘cured’ her
It just never stops with these dopes.
maya
Did they poll the Koch bros? I’ll bet not.
Baud
Those rich people who support tax hikes know that tax cuts would just trickle down to poor people. They’re the ones who are really engaging in class warfare.
chrome agnomen
grover’s bath tub keeps getting bigger.
Calouste
Out of those 32% who do not want to have taxes raised, how many work in the media or in lobbying?
TenguPhule
If Her Opponent doesn’t immediately start running: My Opponent is a Child Molesting Rapist!!!, he’d better fire his ad team.
Also, why is this woman not in jail?
General Stuck
I’m a poll watching fool. And the internals of current comprehensive polling is taking a sharp turn away from the GOP on economic matters. Obama isn’t doing great, but decent, considering. About the same as Reagan at this stage.
The gooper approvals is nearing whale shit on the bottom of the sea levels. The republican party, no matter how poorly they are doing on the issue, cannot afford to make a lurch back to sane wingnuttery, lest the party implode/explode into many ugly pieces.
In reality, I have always thought the GOP imploded the day Treasury Sec Paulson arrived on capital hill, hat in hand begging for a gazillion dollars of tax payer money to clean up the mess his party made of things. Then, Along comes the tea party, keeping it held together with Koch money and ceiling wax.
Calouste
@Brachiator:
So Jeebus cured her of statutory rape?
Cat Lady
@Brachiator:
It was all the pot, the liberals and although she didn’t come right out and say it, the near guy in the WH’s fault. Do the goopers still call themselves the Party of Personal Responsibility?
Baud
@General Stuck:
IMHO, the fact that Obama is currently holding about even or better in the polls is incredible news given the economy. My guess is that the greater public exposure that will come when people starting paying attention to the election will not be kind to the GOP candidate.
Mark S.
@General Stuck:
I might have to steal that one.
Mr Stagger Lee
@Calouste: Or actually serving in congress. How many millionaires we have there now?
General Stuck
@Mark S.:
well, ok
chrome agnomen
little off topic (maybe), but i had a flat on the way to the party and don’t know what GOBP is an acronym for. (pretty sure of the GOP part)
smintheus
The same blogger at the WSJ site (in a blog about the rich) said this 3 weeks ago about a different opinion poll:
I doubt that these polls are getting much coverage in the print WSJ, certainly not its opinion page.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Cat Lady:
She was working at a liberal learning institution and it’s all their fault. She got rid of teh ghey by quitting her evil librul job and hugging Baby Jeebus.
All has been forgiven and she has her parking spot reserved in heaven.
@chrome agnomen:
I think the BP was appended when BP greased up our ocean.
You know, credit given where it’s due and all that.
scav
@Brachiator: et al.
Always read the small print.
It’s the most powerful card in the Monopoly deck.
Also, WTF with her being “in” Homosexuality? I can decide if we should open an embassy there or think of it like a tin of hominy.
ETA: Finally got that blockquote?
ETA2 YES!
JPL
Am I the only one who think the Republicans are like the arrogant four year old who puts his fingers in his ears and says I can’t hear you?
jeff
Everyone loves anecdotes, so here’s mine: my conservative and a bit wealthy older parents support nearly nothing, but they do support raising taxes on themselves. Go figure.
Linda Featheringill
@chrome agnomen: #17
GOBP:
Apparently it was originally coined in response to that jerk apologizing to BP for charging them for the oil spill.
GO BP
Wag
Serve Grover with his well deserved Divorce papers NOW, GOP.
Chris
If I may ask, who’s the Spectrem Group? Sorry to be pedantic but when I see a poll I like to know where it’s coming from…
P-Dog
Here’s what I get out of this: A good portion of the rich folks out there probably aren’t as “out of touch” or “evil” as we seem to think. Well at least just on this one lone issue (Who knows, maybe a good deal of them still think we non-millionaires should just eat cake and shut up)
Anyways, back to the original train of thought — a good portion of rich folks seem to have a clue. My wish is that these kinds of rich folks express themselves a whole lot more. Because so far what we’re hearing is that rich folks DON’T want a dime of extra tax increases, or extra regulations, or anything other than pain and austerity. Well at least we’re hearing that through their exclusive club on The Hill — the Republican Party. My plea to the sensible millionaires out there — speak up! Let it be known that you as a class aren’t all champagne and oysters. Plus, Warren Buffet could use some company.
artem1s
@Brachiator:
So she thinks the issue with this revelation is that it was a lesbian encounter?
Monala
@P-Dog: I read somewhere that the push to eliminate the estate tax came from just nine super-wealthy American families; the Waltons of Wal-mart fame are the only ones I remember.
Shawn in ShowMe
@jeff:
It’d be interesting to know what political and business figures your parents respected when they were young adults.
Villago Delenda Est
Some of these people HAVE read history, and understand that what’s going on now leads, with shocking and tragic regularity, to really bad things happening.
They want to keep their heads. They need to purge their ranks of grifters and sociopaths, and submit to reasonable regulation that enhances the performance of markets, as opposed to the past thirty years of deregulation that threatens to obliterate them.
Chris
@P-Dog:
I’ll go with that. But in addition to being a creation of rich people, the current Republican machine really belongs to a fairly limited group of rich people. Rich assholes in general are in no short supply, but rich assholes who control the GOP are a relative handful, I think, even in the 1%.
And I also wonder to what extent those rich assholes, people like the Kochs, are guided by self-interest, however unenlightened, and to what extent they’re guided by sheer bloody-mindedness (e.g. conservative ideology). World’s full of people who fall for their own cons, after all.
JPL
@Chris: Spectrem Group–a consulting firm that focuses on the affluent and retirement markets.
This is from their site
The SPECTRUM Group provides the access, insight, and experience to accomplish your goals in the nation’s capitol.
link
Villago Delenda Est
@maya:
They didn’t poll seven and eight figure annual income media personalities, either, I’ll bet.
You know, like Brit “how will this natural disaster affect my portfolio” Hume…
MikeJ
@TenguPhule:
I’m guessing the statue of limitations. She’s 61. If it happened when she was in her 20s or 30s, or even her 40s, it’s too long ago to prosecute.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yeah, I agree with this. Fingers crossed.
I think it was people like this who spawned the New Deal almost a century ago, also too. FDR was from the cream of the country’s rich elite, and a lot of his cabinet was similarly full of people whom you’d stereotypically expect to be Republicans.
JPL
@MikeJ: I hope someone asks her if sex offenders should have to register with the state.
Villago Delenda Est
@TenguPhule:
The issue with this SHOULD be the power imbalance between a teacher and pupil, and how “mutual consent” may not really be all that mutual in such a situation, even if it’s claimed by the one in the position of power.
But, yeah, the statute of limitations is long gone in getting the government involved in it, but similar scandals in Oregon have resulted in the obliteration of political careers (for our former Governor, Neil Goldschmidt, a Democrat, a few years back…fling with an underage female).
PurpleGirl
@Mr Stagger Lee: Too many.
PurpleGirl
@Chris: Lobbyists.
From their website:
Washington’s Premier Consulting Firm for Federal Business Success
The SPECTRUM Group provides the access, insight, and experience to accomplish your goals in the nation’s capitol. Widely recognized as one of the premier consulting firms in Washington, The SPECTRUM Group is a dynamic alliance of 145 members including 30 former flag officers coupled with former Senior Executives, other federal agencies, the private sector, and Capitol Hill focused on meeting our clients’ toughest issues. From analysis to implementation, only The SPECTRUM Group offers the complete range of client services – and the unmatched expertise to get the job done. Our name says it all.
Cliff in NH
@Mr Stagger Lee:
Don’t confuse people with assets over a million dollars (millionaires) with people who Earn Over a Million dollars a year, you know, Over $480/hr
Congress is 174,000 a year or $83/hr if they worked a full 40 hour work week.
Wealth Isn’t Income.
Cliff in NH
@scav:
Put a double underscore between paragraphs to have a continuous block quote.
PurpleGirl
@Cliff in NH: While that is true (that salary doesn’t equal wealth), it is also true that a good number of senators come to their positions after careers in the private sector wherein they acquired wealth or made connections that made them money now, outside of their senate salaries.
For example, see:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/your-senator-is-probably-a-millionaire/
Chris T.
@Cliff in NH: Indeed. However, particularly huge “wealth” levels tend to result in a fair bit of income. For instance, if your net worth is $100 million or more, and you invest most of it at a return-rate of 1% or better, you approach or exceed the $1M/yr in “income” level.
Of course, much of it is dividends and capital gains, hence not taxed much. Bond interest income goes on Schedule B and does get taxed, but other stuff goes on Schedule D and other more esoteric forms. Schedule D’s significantly lower rates apply even if your nominal income rises to the point of prohibiting most Schedule A deductions.
AZmando
When is someone going to point out that many of the “job creators” are in fact, trust-fund babies living off vast inherited wealth? They did nothing to earn it or deserve it, and they add nothing to society. They are consumers not contributors. If the GOP really wants to encourage the entreprenurial spirit, they should make these lazy bums work for a living!
Chris
@JPL:
@PurpleGirl:
Thanks people! Was mostly wondering if it was politically affiliated in any way (I tend not to trust those polls at all, even if they’re from my party and say exactly what I was hoping for), but that doesn’t sound like the case here.
Cliff in NH
@Chris T.:
The terminology is used to confuse voters who have a 500,000+ house and other investments, It’s even right there in the quote, conflating INVESTMENTS of $1,000,000 (from a survey of brokerage accts with a net worth of 1000000+) with INCOME of a million a year, $480/hr
Many people don’t see the difference when statements are made like that.
Cliff in NH
@Chris T.:
Not all bonds are taxed, I know mine are not. (nxz)
Chris
@AZmando:
A-friggity-men.
scav
@Cliff in NH: No, the problem was actually the splat at the beginning of the line was somehow breaking both the single block quote (the one I first tried) and then the two block first fix. Drop in a non-breaking space before the * and it cleared up. Info provided only in case anyone else is crazy enough to start a line with a * inside a block quote. Obligatory FYWP.
ETA: Thanks all the same, I just can be trusted to go into the html weeds sometimes.
Cliff in NH
@Chris T.:
Income is income anyhow what are you trying to say, besides rich people have income from investments? that’s the whole point of raising taxes on cap gains which are the primary source of income for the top 0.1%
In my opinion cap gains should be taxed as ordinary income, and new brackets should be added for every 500,000/yr income. I think that’s consistent with the argument made at OWS
Cliff in NH
@scav:
ahh, hadn’t noticed problems with splats before as I rarely use ’em.
superdestroyer
Increased taxes means increased spending by the government which means increased power for the Democratic Party.
Any Republican who would support tax increases should remember how much Clinton’s campaign used Bush I’s support for taxes increases against Bush I.
Chris
@superdestroyer:
Much worse, it gives the government enough money (potentially) to actually do its job better. People in the mushy middle might actually notice and be less inclined to buy the shit the Republicans are selling about how 1) the government always sucks and 2) Democrats can’t govern.
Which is a horrifying prospect to any True Believer.
Cliff in NH
@superdestroyer:
No, Increased taxes means lower deficit.
jeff
@Shawn in ShowMe:
John Birch Society; Committee to elect Barry Goldwater. They were disgusted with George Wallace, but otherwise extremely rightwing, though not racist (relatively speaking).
Cliff in NH
As a Fucking Perfect example of what I’m talking about Lawrence O’Donnell just conflated people who OWN a million dollars And respond to a survey with people who MAKE a MILLION A YEAR+, aka $480+/hr.
Fucking stupid media.
Cliff in NH
The dicks on msnbc also allowed a republican to claim that obama said that the stimulus would hold unemployment below 8 something% when I saw Obama Live on bloomberg saying that unemployment would continue to rise to 10%
June 16, 2009 22:30 EDT
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=auTTvgeN294Y
Evolving Deep Southerner (tense changed for accuracy)
@Villago Delenda Est: EXACTLY. “I’ll pay a couple dollars more to keep these people out of my life. They’re fucking annoying.”
gwangung
That’s because Republicans are too stupid to handle the power in government.
Superdestroyer is a prime example, who runs like hell from actual effectiveness rather than learn how to use it.
(Jeez, guy, do you ever THINK about the claptrap you’re writing?)
superdestroyer
@Cliff in NH:
The states with the highest taxes have the highest level of spending and had as bad or worst budget issues that low spending states. There is little connection between higher taxes and fewer budget issues. If the Democrats sweep in 2012 and Nancy Pelosi is back as the Speaker of the House along with higher taxes baseed in 2012, spending will go up and the budget deficit will stay above $1 trillion. That means more people receiving funds from the government and a smaller private sector.
superdestroyer
@gwangung:
Does the U.S. really need two big spending, big government, high entitlement parties. If everyone wants a check from the government then who does the work in the private sector to fund the public sector.
Do you really want the entire U.S. to work like Greece (or Detroit) where 20% work for the government and most people are economically decoupled from the economy?
Paul in KY
@J: Good analogy. I guess their motto is ‘Death before Pissing off Grover Norquist’
Paul in KY
@Chris: They are a division of Spectre Omnievil. Might have heard of them, competitor to Bond Inc.
Chris T.
@Cliff in NH: Wasn’t particularly making one claim or another about the different categories of income and what “should be”, just pointing to the way it is done today. Bond income is (generally) taxed as ordinary income (except for tax-free muni bonds, but these are extra complicated since deductions can be limited) while capital gains income is not.
It’s definitely not a fair system, and something needs to change. The arguments are in part over “what needs to change”. The bad / wrong arguments are largely the Republican ones, that the unfairness in the system should be made even more unfair. :-)