Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

The revolution will be supervised.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

When I was faster i was always behind.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

How stupid are these people?

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184Comments

  1. 1.

    EriktheRed

    In the biggest New York protest since a police raid broke up the protesters’ encampment in a park near Wall Street on Tuesday, organizers and city officials had expected tens of thousands to turn out.

    A crowd that disappointed organizers throughout the day grew to several thousand after the standard workday ended and labor union activists joined a march across the Brooklyn Bridge, where last month more than 700 people were arrested during a similar march.

    “If you look at the crowds today, they are getting larger and more diverse. It’s wonderful when you see the unions get involved. It truly shows this movement represents people from all different walks of life,” said Terri Nilliasca, 38, a United Auto Workers member from New York.

    Many protesters complained of police brutality, pointing to one media image of man whose face was bloodied during his arrest and another of a woman who was dragged across the sidewalk by an officer.

    Police reported seven officers were injured, including one whose hand was cut by a flying piece of glass and five who were hit in the face by a liquid believed to be vinegar.

    Police barricaded the narrow streets around Wall Street, home to the New York Stock Exchange, and used batons to push protesters onto the sidewalk as they marched through the area to try and prevent financial workers getting to their desks.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/17/usa-protests-newyork-idUSN1E7AG0DD20111117

  2. 2.

    jeff

    http://www.ustream.tv/theother99

    Looks very nice and like what I prefer–they’re on the pedestrian part of Brooklyn Bridge so far, but some are going to confront the NYPD and close the traffic part of the bridge, from what I understand. Some seek the exhilaration of fighting the NYPD…which is probably why a lot of people are tuning in. I think that worked for the message for a while, but is now working against it–but that’s based on anecdote and my own feelings.

  4. 4.

    Hunter Gathers

    Evidently Generalissimo Bloomberg has had enough of the moochers marching in his streets, and has sent out his small army of thugs to arrest anyone who can’t recite long passages from Atlas Shrugged while getting pummeled by a nightstick.

  5. 5.

    TooManyJens

    Aerial shot of the bridge:

    http://www.emergencystream.com/video_streams/NY/NYC2/a.html

    On http://www.ustream.tv/theother99channel2, they have someone on the bridge. His feed keeps cutting out, though. Someone was listening to the NYPD on the scanner and heard them say 32,000 people on and around the bridge.

    There have been confrontations and arrests, but for the most part people are peaceful and in very good spirits. I’ve been watching it all day — it’s been absolutely riveting.

    (Holy shit, it’s 6:30. I need to go home.)

  6. 6.

    DCLaw1

    Home sick the day of the Zuccotti Park “eviction,” I watched The Other 99 Percent’s live feed for hours. Just amazed at how tech now allows us to see uninterrupted and unedited video of the unfolding protests, as they happen, from anywhere in the world.

  9. 9.

    General Stuck

    Anyone else got the “change dot org” widget on the left sidebar blocking out the first couple of comments?

  11. 11.

    Robert

    My understanding, RE: the arrests, is that some protesters thought they could block NYC traffic without a permit again and not be arrested. When some refused to move from the middle of the street and resisted arrest, they were moved out of the middle of the street for their own safety and then arrested. Drivers will see a huge group of people in a street; drivers might not see one person sitting down int he middle of the street.

    And as a reminder, anyone protesting in NYC gets arrested for blocking city traffic without a permit. Same with assaulting police officers with weapons like chemicals or glass bottles. Rich, poor, old, young, 1%, and 99% alike. The law does not discriminate. And yeah, if a bunch of protesters choose to walk over the Brooklyn Bridge instead of using the walkway, they’ll be arrested just like the last time.

  13. 13.

    MikeJ

    Just heard that the 520 bridge in Seattle is closed because of protestors. Which doesn’t seem like a way to win people over.

    ETA: Heard it on local TV news, so there’s a fair chance it’s not true at all.

  19. 19.

    gaz

    @General Stuck: Yes – I’m using Chrome, haven’t tried it with other browsers.

    I ended up using AdBlock to eliminate the div around that advert and it fixed it.

    I don’t want to encourage adblocking a freely accessible blog though – and I did manage to adblock just that one.

    I promise to turn it off once I know it’s fixed.

    For me it doesn’t just block the comments. It blocks the articles too

  20. 20.

    Violet

    @General Stuck:
    Yes, me too.

    Was just in the car and heard a piece on my local public radio station on “branding advice for the Occupiers.” They interviewed people complaining that the protestors today kept them from getting to work on time and were blocking streets.

  22. 22.

    Nutella

    @Robert:

    Rich, poor, old, young, 1%, and 99% alike. The law does not discriminate.

    Hahahahahahahaha. Right.

    You started out OK by pointing out that blocking streets will get people arrested but then you veered off into fantasyland.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    @Robert:

    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

  28. 28.

    Litlebritdifrnt2

    @MikeJ:

    And what else are they supposed to do? Stand on a street corner with a sign? The only way that the 99% are going to get their message out is to disrupt normal life. You can see that today by the whining of the Wall Street elite “oh my god I can’t get to work I am oppressed” At some point the 99% are going to say enough is enough, you fuckers do not get to go into the office and screw the rest of us on a day to day basis. WHICH IS WHAT THEY DO. They speculate oil prices which results in the rest of us paying more at the pump, it has nothing to do with supply and demand, it has everything to do with the damn futures market, gamblers, deciding how much I pay for a gallon of gas to get to work every day. I am sick of this shit, and so are the 30,000 people protesting in NYC this evening. Wall Street is NOT main street, and the people on Main Street have said ENOUGH.

  29. 29.

    gaz

    @MikeJ: True it sucks to close 520. Won’t win over people that live in seattle and work in redmond.

    But try working on mercer island and living in seattle during seafair…

    people should suck it up. we do it EVERY YEAR for seafair… once in awhile for large protests isn’t all that bad, in perspective. And it’s not like closing 520 is worse than closing 90 for people that need to get to the island anyway…

  31. 31.

    Violet

    @Litlebritdifrnt2:
    The problem with disrupting traffic and so forth is that a lot of people who are sympathetic to the cause, and are in the 99% themselves, are not happy when their commutes are disrupted and they are late to work, etc.

    What’s the best way for protestors to disrupt the 1% without disrupting the 99%? Or to convince those in the 99% who aren’t protesting that the cause is just and good and worth a little disruption?

  32. 32.

    Kristine

    @General Stuck:

    Anyone else got the “change dot org” widget on the left sidebar blocking out the first couple of comments?

    Yup.

    And hey hey, I’m trying out Chrome, and the b-quote button that didn’t work with Safari, FF, or IE8 is working now.

  33. 33.

    Litlebritdifrnt2

    @Violet:

    I understand that, if a waitress can’t get to work at the local coffee shop then that is a problem, they are hurting those they are trying to protect, but at some point you have to disrupt normal working life in order to prove your point. Wall Street is corrupt, its tentacles reach into the Congress and to the White House, the 1% look down on us like Marie Antoinette, “let them eat cake” well guess what, we are not going to eat cake, we are not going to take it any more.

  34. 34.

    AA+ Bonds

    Now we get to find out some interesting facts about the American media like just how much 1% dick they can suck in one night

  37. 37.

    gaz

    @Violet:

    What’s the best way for protestors to disrupt the 1% without disrupting the 99%?

    being disruptive is sort of the point for large-scale civil disobedience.

    Here’s the thing, in all mass protest, things like a timely commute do become casualties of the cause, even for sympathizers that can’t be direct participants.

    I think your latter sentence cuts to the truth of the matter:

    Or to convince those in the 99% who aren’t protesting that the cause is just and good and worth a little disruption?

    I think the history of protest tells us that the more sympathetic the observers are to the cause, the more they’ll overlook inconvenience.

    I also believe that the onus of policing their tactics and members is a responsibility that Occupy must never abdicate. Everybody should make an attempt to be mindful of the *civil* part of civil disobedience. Try not to smash up the street vendor’s hot dog stand – or otherwise be an asshole. You can do that and still not undermine your cause.

    But stay in the streets, public parks etc. Stay disruptive. Camp if the situation calls for it. That’s how a movement says “we are not leaving until you address our grievances”. That’s the point. Just try to be considerate of your neighbors in the process, without marginalizing your cause.

  38. 38.

    Corbin Dallas Multipass

    @Kristine:

    And hey hey, I’m trying out Chrome, and the b-quote button that didn’t work with Safari, FF, or IE8 is working now.

    worked for me in ff

  39. 39.

    MikeJ

    @Litlebritdifrnt2:

    And what else are they supposed to do? Stand on a street corner with a sign? The only way that the 99% are going to get their message out is to disrupt normal life.

    The 99% are the people that can’t get home because some nimrod decided the sidewalk wasn’t good enough for him. Most people would rather get home, have a cocktail and then dinner and see their kids before they go to bed.

    It’s not as if pissing off the people who you claim to be working for is the only option.

  42. 42.

    jnfr

    That Sam Bee segment was actually pretty funny. The video from the bridge tonight is fantastic though. And there is also a lot going down in other cities: Portland, Chicago, St. Louis are some places I’ve seen reports from.

    My heart is definitely with the 99%.

  44. 44.

    gaz

    @Corbin Dallas Multipass:

    @Violet: You mean to ask how you disrupt the Yacht Construction Industry?

    When the yacht construction industry was gutted in this area (around 2k9 IIRC) it put a lot of lower-middle-class and middle-class people I know (in the boat building trade) right out of work.

    So even then…

  48. 48.

    Litlebritdifrnt2

    @MikeJ:

    Are you fucking serious? Get home and have a fucking cocktail? Really? The 99% are wondering if they can actually afford to add hamburger to a box of Hamburger Helper or if they will just eat the noodles. For the most part they eat the noodles. A cocktail? Really? What. The. Fuck.

  52. 52.

    Judas Escargot

    The legalistic/convenience arguments are truly starting to piss me off. WTF is wrong with people?

    People either have the right to peaceably assemble in this country, or they don’t. Which is it?

    Ben Franklin gave us too much credit: We apparently live in a country full of mouthbreathers who would trade away their rights to shave 20 minutes off their commute, never mind security.

  53. 53.

    cathyx

    Speaking of protesting and signing petitions, I agree with that Target worker about working at midnight on black friday. Retail has gotten insane.

  56. 56.

    Tom Hilton

    @Litlebritdifrnt2: Bullshit. When you “disrupt normal working life”, you fuck over normal working people. Also, possibly some of the actual villains, but since they’re less than 1%…do the motherfucking math.

    And the dubious assumption behind your glib willingness to shit all over working people is that there’s a payoff–that it will actually move us closer to our goals. Except that a) ruining the commute rarely wins hearts and minds, and b) the Occupy movement isn’t doing anything concrete to advance any of their goals.

  59. 59.

    gaz

    @gwangung: Yes, but OTOH, Occupy is doing things pretty well, as far as these things go.

    That said, there’s always room for improvement.

    But I’ll have no truck with even implicitly validating the argument that Occupiers are just assholes that don’t care about the middle class and the poor – look at how they disrupt them!. I guess my point is this has become sort of a meme, and I think that the whole argument itself was an artificial construct, so I don’t even care for such turns of the discussion. It’s not a real argument – it’s a false meme constructed to manipulate public sentiment.

    *some people* are being disrupted, sure. that’s just the way protests work though. to argue about whether Occupy is being *too* disruptive reeks of high-broderism handwringing/concerntrolling to me, even if that wasn’t Violet’s intent.

  60. 60.

    Jennifer

    @Violet:

    What’s the best way for protestors to disrupt the 1% without disrupting the 99%?

    Take it to the next level: start talking constantly and loudly about how if the fuckers don’t back off and let us fix the mess they’ve created for the rest of us (i.e., sit down, shut up, and take your tax increases and regulations like an adult), then we’ll just stop paying back what they’ve loaned to us.

    This only continues because we continue to pay on our debts. When you’re at war, pretty much the first thing you do is to stop giving money to your enemy. And they’re our enemies.

  61. 61.

    RossInDetroit

    I agree with that Target worker about working at midnight on black friday.

    This is surprising to hear about Target. I worked one holiday season at M. Field’s, which was a Target Corp store. They were very understanding about sane scheduling, preferring volunteers for the tougher shifts, and people mostly went for it voluntarily.

    My sister is currently a Target store employee. When she abruptly had to move from UT to MI because of a death in the family, they gave her time off and found an equivalent job for her at the Target nearest to her new home.

    These are only anecdotes, and I’m not saying they make the company perfect, but in our personal experience as current/past employees, Target and Target Corp have been above average employers for us.

  62. 62.

    shortstop

    OT, BJ is the only place I regularly see “protestor” and “commentor” instead of “protester” and “commenter.” In fact, it’s the only place I see this at all. I don’t care either way, but why is this a BJ thing? Am I unaware of all corner-of-the-internet traditions?

  63. 63.

    Raven

    Syracuse police say they are investigating an allegation that Syracuse University assistant basketball coach Bernie Fine molested a team ball boy for more than a dozen years beginning in the mid-1980s.

  64. 64.

    Jenny

    @moonbat:

    Protesting that is doesn’t disrupt things is sort of ineffective, no?

    It depends on what you’re disrupting.

    Disrupting traffic and subways doesn’t attract supporters.

  65. 65.

    Nutella

    Report from this morning of police roughing up reporters and demonstrators. via ThinkProgress

    One interesting side effect of OWS is that the protesters and even reporters from a right-wing news site are seeing some of what people in poor and minority neighborhoods often see when they deal with the police.

  67. 67.

    DCLaw1

    All the commotion caused by those black people sitting in whites only sections of diners really messed up my Sunday breakfast. Didn’t they know enough not to piss off the people they needed for support?

    Amateurs.

  68. 68.

    cathyx

    @RossInDetroit: You seem unaware of the Black Friday shopping thing. Although Target isn’t the only store to do this, it’s been happening for a few years now. And I know several insane people who actually shop during these hours too. I’m glad I don’t work at any of these retail stores.

  70. 70.

    gwangung

    @gaz: Just wanted things clear. I think you’re right that people will put up with some inconvenience if they think the right people are getting inconvenienced as well.

    some people are being disrupted, sure. that’s just the way protests work though. to argue about whether Occupy is being too disruptive reeks of high-broderism handwringing/concerntrolling to me, even if that wasn’t Violet’s intent.

    And I am quite mindful of this statement as well.

  71. 71.

    dadanarchist

    @Tom Hilton: When you “disrupt normal working life”, you fuck over normal working people.

    This is New York Fucking City. Working class people don’t drive in NYC, they take public transportation.

  74. 74.

    RossInDetroit

    @cathyx:

    You seem unaware of the Black Friday shopping thing.

    Nope. I doubt any American is unaware of Black Friday shopping. Well, maybe my Amish relatives.
    And I worked in retail, at a mall, for 4 of the last 7 holiday seasons. I know what it’s about.
    It’s kinda like being a park ranger on Labor Day. It’s gonna suck for everyone.

  76. 76.

    Liberty60

    I took part in the protest here in LA this morning; then watched the livestream of the afternoon protests, still underway at this moment-
    About 50 or so people standing in BofA Plaza downtown.

  77. 77.

    Roger Moore

    @moonbat:

    Protesting that is doesn’t disrupt things is sort of ineffective, no?

    Sure, but protesting that mostly disrupts random things unrelated to your target tends not to be very effective, either. The best protests are ones that specifically and accurately target whatever it is that they’re protesting against. Civil rights protesters didn’t randomly picket and block streets; they deliberately broke specific laws they thought were unjust. The attempt to shut down NYSE was a good example of that kind of protest. Protesting at foreclosure evictions, or corporate events of banks that got TARP money would be good protests. Randomly shutting down streets is not a good protest unless you’re protesting something about the street itself.

  78. 78.

    Jenny

    Boycotts are far more effective in disrupting the 1% than blocking single-mom commuters from picking up their kids from day care.

  79. 79.

    cathyx

    @Raven: He seems to think that Target doesn’t do insane scheduling because his sister works there and they seem to treat their employees nicely. They’ve been doing this Black Friday thing for a few years now and if they don’t get enough volunteers, are they just not going to be open at midnight this year?

  80. 80.

    patrick II

    @DCLaw1:
    Not to mention the inconveniences caused by Egyptian and Libyan protestors, or the old time master — Ghandi.
    Change is inconvenient.

  81. 81.

    Valenciennes

    All those commuters honking horns and giving thumbs-ups enthusiastically sure do seem resentful of those dirty fuckin’ hippies.

  83. 83.

    David in NY

    There was an old Malvina Reynolds song from the civil rights era, I knew Judy Collins’s version, that I think is appropriate here. First verse goes like this:

    It isn’t nice to block the doorway,
    It isn’t nice to go to jail,
    There are nicer ways to do it,
    But the nice ways always fail.
    It isn’t nice, it isn’t nice,
    You told us once, you told us twice,
    But if that is Freedom’s price,
    We don’t mind.

    By the way, my younger kid was one of 99 (get it?) local politicians, union members, etc., who were arrested trying (symbolically sort of) to enter the roadway of the Brooklyn Bridge this evening. Waiting to hear something about it …

  84. 84.

    Nutella

    @Jenny:

    Boycott hedge funds! That’ll show ’em.

    But seriously, it’s usually bad tactics to block a bridge or a main road but blocking Wall Street itself? Yeah that’s going to inconvenience some people who aren’t masters of the universe as well as the intended targets but it’s a reasonable target for protests.

  85. 85.

    burnspbesq

    “People either have the right to peaceably assemble in this country, or they don’t. Which is it?”

    Yes, but. And I’m sure you know that.

  86. 86.

    Raven

    @TooManyJens: So I pied that Kolonskopy dude and I see his posts but get pie related comments? I’d ask Cleek but he has me pied!

    eta when I refresh there is a different pie message?

  87. 87.

    RossInDetroit

    @cathyx:

    He seems to think that Target doesn’t do insane scheduling because his sister works there and they seem to treat their employees nicely.

    This is not what I said. I’m not getting into a back and forth on this minor subject with someone who misrepresents my statement.

  88. 88.

    jpe

    “People either have the right to peaceably assemble in this country, or they don’t. Which is it?”

    They don’t. They have the right to assemble subject to reasonable restriction. That’s democracy: the people decide those restrictions; if you don’t like them, the proper remedy is to overturn them at the ballot box.

  89. 89.

    jpe

    This is New York Fucking City. Working class people don’t drive in NYC, they take public transportation.

    This is mind-blowingly stupid. Rich people don’t take the brooklyn bridge at rush hour. Those that do are middle class commuters and delivery people.

  90. 90.

    Roger Moore

    @Raven:

    So I pied that Kolonskopy dude and I see his posts but get pie related comments?

    You see that he posted, but his actual words are replaced with something pie related. Alternately, you can have his words disemvoweled (i.e. all the vowels are removed) or replaced with a black bar with a white “REDACTED” on it. I think you have to manually edit the script to get those alternative versions, though.

  91. 91.

    burnspbesq

    @ Liberty60:

    Villaraigosa has really outperformed Bloomberg in how he has managed the municipal response to this. Given the LAPD’s long and sordid history, it’s utterly amazing that there hasn’t been a wholesale cracking of skulls.

  93. 93.

    dadanarchist

    @jpe: This is mind-blowingly stupid. Rich people don’t take the brooklyn bridge at rush hour. Those that do are middle class commuters and delivery people.

    Couldn’t be wronger. If you’re on the BB at rush hour, you’re a rich twat that lives on Long Island.

    Have you ever actually lived in NYC?

  94. 94.

    Nutella

    @Raven:

    Yep, that’s how it works. It replaces the message for the people in your pie list but it does not do anything to other people’s replies to the pied person.

    When you download the new one it goes back to the default abuseStyle and no pied people so you have to edit those again in the new script.

    The new buttons at the bottom of the screen are ace! Thanks, cleek.

  95. 95.

    Roger Moore

    @burnspbesq:

    Villaraigosa has really outperformed Bloomberg in how he has managed the municipal response to this.

    It helps that Villaraigosa is actually fairly liberal, isn’t a billionaire Wall Street tycoon, and that the protests aren’t targeting the biggest part of the local economy. If it were “Occupy San Pedro” and the goal were to shut down international shipping, or “Occupy Hollywood” and the goal were to shut down the movie industry, you might find LAPD showing less restraint.

  97. 97.

    FlipYrWhig

    Re: disruption, every strike has the same dilemma. The way you show you have power is to cause disruption. That disruption inevitably aggravates a certain number of people and turns them away from your cause. But people who organize such actions conclude that the show of strength outweighs the aggravation and thus, on net, is a positive idea. Is it? I’m sure it works case by case.

    What I hate in coverage of labor disputes in the news is that, _invariably_, the hairdo stuck covering the story will say something like, “But as the two sides continue to stand firm, it’s the public that pays the price,” with a grim expression on his face. No shit, Sherlock. That’s the bleedin’ point.

  99. 99.

    RossInDetroit

    Krugman recounted remarking to some Wall Street people that it must be a pain driving out to the Hamptons every weekend in summer. Finally someone clued him in that they typically go by helicopter. I dunno how you disrupt that, but I’m guessing it’s a much more serious level of civil disobedience than messing with the ‘Bridge.

  101. 101.

    David in NY

    @burnspbesq: I had much the same thought. Formerly, I would have expected LA to be far worse. But I think things have changed in NY under Giuliani and Bloomberg. Up until about 2002-3, I had always respected the NYPD’s crowd control techniques. But starting with the Iraq War demonstrations, the Republican convention, and now this, there has been a continued unwillingness to allow people to demonstrate in a meaningful fashion. Instead, crowds have been essentially caged (leading to great frustration, chants of “let us march” etc.) and/or forced to express their views in some out-of-the-way area, which made the whole thing pointless. And even then, demonstrators have been met with pointless use of force of varying degrees. The NYPD is just not as professional in this regard as it used to be, I fear.

  102. 102.

    singfoom

    To those who are complaining about the protesters blocking the NYSE and disrupting the commutes of workers, there is a fair point to be made that they are disrupting the lives of those who they are fighting for and would support them.

    YMMV, but if my commute was interrupted by people fighting against extreme income inequality and the capture of our political system by the very wealthy, I might be slightly annoyed, but still supportive.

    The point of a protest is to disrupt things. I’m glad to see Occupy doing this. The alternative is to “protest” in “freedom pens” or whatever they were called when they caged the protesters during the Bush years, miles from the site of the actual event.

    I support OWS all the way and it’s great to see so many people involved in NYC. Hopefully the number of people involved nationwide continues to grow, despite inconveniencing people.

    I certainly find our broken political system much more of an egregious wrong than being slowed during a commute.

    Cheers!

  104. 104.

    RalfW

    Dateline today, Star Tribune:

    Police in Minneapolis arrested 11 protesters Thursday for blocking a bridge near the University of Minnesota campus on the two-month anniversary of the birth of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
    The protest on the 10th Avenue bridge was to call for jobs and racial equality. Nick Muhammad, from a group called Neighborhoods Organizing for Change, said the people arrested sat down in the middle of the bridge.
    Police spokesman Sgt. Bill Palmer said in a Twitter feed that 11 were arrested. Sgt. Steve McCarty, another police spokesman, said they were cited for impeding traffic and public nuisance.

    I drove over the bridge probably 10 minutes before the arrests. Decent crowd, getting a bit feisty.

    I needed to get home, but went over to the 5:30 rally after the Bridge the Gap protest. Smallish but energetic crowd, about 5 cops keeping their distance.

    After a hot summer and a mild fall, I’ve gotten wimpified. It seemed really cold on that windswept, bare brick plaza. Probably about 30 deg while I was there. A grandmother for peace exhorted the crowd to bring hot food the next time those of us in the audience visits.

    The regulars appeared determined to stay and keep camping, sans tents. I’m Impressed.

  105. 105.

    Waynski

    @Nutella: Wall Street’s been a virtual fortress since 9/11 and even before then very few people actually drove there. It’s not much of an inconvenience except for cops and security guards for a protest to take place in front of the exchange.

  106. 106.

    Missed the Train

    So… the police can successfully prevent protestors from taking over Wall St., but somehow they are “unable” to prevent protestors from taking over bridges, disrupting traffic, annoying average people, and therefore undermining the protestors’ goals? The 99% got played here.

  107. 107.

    FlipYrWhig

    @singfoom:

    I certainly find our broken political system much more of an egregious wrong than being slowed during a commute.

    I had a comment similar to yours upstream a bit, but IMHO everyone has a limit. You have to find the protest to be a good match for the cause. No matter how much I oppose, say, child soldiers in Sierra Leone, if I have to pick up my cat’s medicine on my lunch break and the street between my office and the vet is shut down for an impromptu protest against child soldiers, I’m not going to be too thrilled about that.

  109. 109.

    Roger Moore

    @FlipYrWhig:

    The way you show you have power is to cause disruption. That disruption inevitably aggravates a certain number of people and turns them away from your cause. But people who organize such actions conclude that the show of strength outweighs the aggravation and thus, on net, is a positive idea. Is it? I’m sure it works case by case.

    Sure, and one of the things you do is to try to limit the collateral damage from your strike. You want to limit the disruption to the business you’re striking against and anyone who’s trying to be a customer while the strike is on. If your picket line spreads and hurts a neighboring business whose only offense is being next door, you’re pissing off that business and its customers for no good reason. The criticism of the OWS people is that they’re causing a lot of that kind of collateral damage without doing much to hurt the main targets of their ire.

  110. 110.

    PurpleGirl

    @RossInDetroit: But this year, they’ve become crazy, wanting to open the stores at Midnight of the Friday after Thanksgiving. How many people are going to be there… It’s bad enough that they’ve been opening the stores at 5 A.M. on that Friday. Retail is the face mammon and the ghod of the culture.

  111. 111.

    handy

    @FlipYrWhig:

    What I hate in coverage of labor disputes in the news is that, invariably, the hairdo stuck covering the story will say something like, “But as the two sides continue to stand firm, it’s the public that pays the price,” with a grim expression on his face. No shit, Sherlock. That’s the bleedin’ point.

    Which nicely feeds the sentiment “Why don’t they just get back to work.” Something one of the two sides in the negotiation is more than pleased to see, and thus aligns them nicely with pubilc favor. Convenient, no?

  114. 114.

    The Populist

    @Litlebritdifrnt2: All I want is for the protestors to make sure people vote. I listen to guys like Mike Malloy who say voting is for chumps but it’s NOT. It is high time for us to make sure the 99% who protest or don’t understand that without the ballot box, we will not win this war in the long run.

  115. 115.

    singfoom

    @Roger Moore: I ask this half snarkily and half seriously, but when your target is the collusion of multinational corporations and their giant money river that has corrupted our political process, how exactly do you limit the collateral damage there?

    Surround the headquarters of Goldman Sachs with a humanchain/crowd as deep as you can muster? I wouldn’t feel sorry for GS employees going to work in general, but I can also recognize the IT guy is just going to his job to get a paycheck, like the rest of us. I think this is just unavoidable, especially given the size of the target.

    The problem is so big that the targets are everywhere. While I agree in spirit with your point, the analogy doesn’t really hold here.

  116. 116.

    jpe

    @dadanarchist: You take the Battery Park tunnel, not the Brooklyn Bridge. It’s clear you don’t live in NYC, and your ability to use google maps only takes you so far.

  118. 118.

    Violet

    @gaz:

    some people are being disrupted, sure. that’s just the way protests work though. to argue about whether Occupy is being too disruptive reeks of high-broderism handwringing/concerntrolling to me, even if that wasn’t Violet’s intent.

    Not my intent at all. It’s an issue that’s being discussed a lot. Seems reasonable to discuss it here. The goal is to make more people aware and get more people on the side of those protesting. Alienating people you want on your side won’t do that. That was my reason for mentioning the issue.

  119. 119.

    Martin

    @RossInDetroit:

    I dunno how you disrupt that, but I’m guessing it’s a much more serious level of civil disobedience than messing with the ‘Bridge.

    Well, according to Cole if you just randomly fire your shoulder-launched rockets into the air, so long as you weren’t actually looking at the helicopter flying overhead when you fired it, it’s not really a serious level of civil disobedience.

  120. 120.

    Judas Escargot

    @burnspbesq:

    Yes, but. And I’m sure you know that.

    I’m familiar with ‘reasonable restrictions’, counselor.

    But does the Law serve the People in this country? Or the other way around?

  122. 122.

    RossInDetroit

    @PurpleGirl:

    But this year, they’ve become crazy, wanting to open the stores at Midnight of the Friday after Thanksgiving.

    I agree this is nuts. It’s also not even in the top 10 of nuts things about American retail holidays, though.
    At one retail job I complained to the Store Director about how early Christmas/Holiday Season was starting. Because I’m kind of a dick like that. She patiently explained that many of the most motivated and loyal shoppers like it that way so they accommodate them within reason.
    I think this probably explains a lot of unreasonable seeming retail store behavior: they do it because their customers want it, or they think they do. Whether that’s OK or not can be debated, but I think that’s the motivation.

  123. 123.

    Roger Moore

    @David in NY:

    I had much the same thought. Formerly, I would have expected LA to be far worse.

    I think there are two things going on. One is that LAPD has had some embarrassing crowd control failures recently, but has responded to them well. Officers, including higher ups, have been disciplined for mishandling things, which I think has gotten the message home that excessive force will not be tolerated. The other is that the political environment is different. NYPD is roughing up protesters because TPTB in New York want the protesters gone and are perfectly willing to crack some heads to make it happen. TPTB in LA have been much more indulgent, hoping to engage with the protesters and maybe even get some votes from them next election. That’s meant that LAPD has been trying to avoid a big conflict instead of provoke one.

  125. 125.

    Chris

    @David in NY:

    The NYPD is just not as professional in this regard as it used to be, I fear.

    Interesting.

    What changed? Did the feds start pressuring them circa 2002, and then the changes just kind of stuck?

  127. 127.

    Liberty60

    The point of protests is NOT to somehow hurt or punish the 1%- how could they possibly?

    The point is to raise awareness and provoke the powers that be into a confrontation that then forces the public dialogue on the issue.

    Yep there are plenty of ways that can go bad and backfire if the organizers are not skilled at media and PR.

    But just forcing the Village to talk about issues that are favorable to us is a victory.

  128. 128.

    David in NY

    @jpe:

    TPTB in New York want the protesters gone and are perfectly willing to crack some heads to make it happen.

    I would say that explanation was sufficient in this situation, since finance has been the only thing this town has had going for it (well, I exaggerate, but it’s very big) for a long time, and the mayor will always (like say, Sen. Schumer) be out to protect it. But these tactics go way back to the anti-war marches, as to which I doubt that Bloomberg had much real job-related or personal, interest.

    Now as I look back at it, I think September 11 may have poisoned the police department, and it just treats us all like Al Qaeda now.

    ETA: @Chris: As I note above, September 11 changed everything (maybe).

  130. 130.

    MikeJ

    @David in NY:

    Up until about 2002-3, I had always respected the NYPD’s crowd control techniques.

    Best crowd control cops I’ve ever dealt with were the Polizei in Berlin. I was in a protest against Jörg Haider who was visiting. Polite guys who helped up people who were knocked to the ground. Of course that was my only exposure to them.

  131. 131.

    Cacti

    @EriktheRed:

    It’s wonderful when you see the unions get involved

    But I heard that unions are bad because they don’t go to congress with a wish list from techie dorks.

  137. 137.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @eemom:

    With due respect, I refer you to Rude Pundit’s explanation of what a bullshit attitude this is.

    Except that it’s not. I don’t care how early in the movement it is, you need to have a strategy. In particular, you need to have an end point. How do you recognize when you have achieved success? With regards to Occupy Wall Street, under what conditions do you end the protest?

    The problem with OWS is that, as a group, they seem to have spent zero time thinking about these things. That makes it extremely likely that the occupation of any particular place is just going to fizzle out with a whimper. At some point, they *will* stop occupying Zucotti Park. The trick is to make it look like the occupation has ended because it has achieved something and not just because everyone got cold or the police chased them out.

    Eventually, the protests have to lead somewhere. They are not an accomplishment in and of themselves, only a means to an accomplishment. This is something that the civil rights movement understood thoroughly and that OWS doesn’t seem to grasp at all. The fact that they have done everything possible to prevent anyone from forming a strategy is not reassuring.

  138. 138.

    Roger Moore

    @David in NY:

    Now as I look back at it, I think September 11 may have poisoned the police department, and it just treats us all like Al Qaeda now.

    I’m curious if it goes back further than that. My impression is that the biggest change in LAPD was bringing in Bill Bratton, who had these DFH ideas about police occasionally being held accountable and trying to cooperate with the public instead of behaving like an occupying power. I assume he had some of the same attitude at NYPD, which probably led to more “professional” policing and respect for “civil rights”.

  141. 141.

    beergoggles

    If OWS wanted to shut down NYC they should just hire a fleet of cars and drive around the city at under 5 MPH until Bloomie relents and allows camping in the park as a compromise. Mission accomplished.

  142. 142.

    Roger Moore

    @Raven:
    Ed Davis was a bit before my time; the first LAPD chief I paid attention to was Gates. I definitely get the impression that things have been getting much better starting with Bernard Parks.

  143. 143.

    Martin

    @beergoggles: Easier ways to shut down NYC. Walk the city, remove the manhole covers as you go. Done. A half dozen intersections with cars with wheels in those and you’ll have gridlock until Eucharist.

  144. 144.

    Joel

    Out here in Seattle, the bark was worse than the bite. It helps to have a mayor who understands civil liberties and pulls the reins back on the police department every once in a while.

  145. 145.

    gaz

    @Jennifer:

    If you want to disrupt the 1%, stop giving them money.

    Oh but if that were a realistic endeavor.

    In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1 percent control 40 percent of American wealth.

    In terms of financial wealth it’s roughly 39%
    http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

    Boiled down in rather lay terms that means that over a third whatever you spend will end up in the hands of this 1%.

    They’re the parent company behind hosting facility where this site lives.

    They have stake in the hospital where you took your child.

    In the company that built your car.

    It’s very difficult to avoid gangster capitalism of the 1% when it controls over a third of the american economy – and that’s a real part of the problem, in and of itself.

  146. 146.

    RossInDetroit

    @beergoggles:

    NYC they should just hire a fleet of cars and drive around the city at under 5 MPH

    The difference would barely be noticed. In 1900, horse/carriage days, the average point-to-point speed in NYC was 6 MPH. By 1980, with cars, it had risen to 7 MPH. Velocity matters less than density in that environment. Which might validate the strategy of getting out in the roads and clogging things up.

  149. 149.

    gaz

    @RossInDetroit: There was some study I recall looking at about urban traffic densities that suggested that building more roads actually tended to simply invite more traffic. I thought it was a weird supposition, but the data seemed to support it.

    For some reason I was reminded of this while reading your comment.

    I’m not sure that this is my initial source, but a cursory google of more roads more traffic yielded this:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/ideas-market/2011/05/27/more-roads-more-traffic/

    among others.

  151. 151.

    RossInDetroit

    @gaz:

    There was some study I recall looking at about urban traffic densities that suggested that building more roads actually tended to simply invite more traffic.

    Yeah, I know what you mean and it’s an actual thing. I’m too tired to remember it right now.
    When they built I-696 in Detroit it was supposed to reach carrying capacity in a decade. It actually took only 18 months.

  153. 153.

    gaz

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): It *is* a bullshit attitude.

    Despite what David Brooks would have you believe, Occupy has reflected on messaging and strategy pretty deeply.

    They refuse to allow a spin machine to craft a bumper sticker for them, and I’m fine with that too. I have all too recent memories of what the friendly folks like Dick Armey can do to a movement when he arrives on the scene with a PR firm, a bunch of wealthy private donors, and a focus-grouped strategy, but thanks for playing.

    There is a concerted effort to police their own, and the spin you hear about not having a message is utter bullshit. You seem to oppose the fact that the movement is an organically developed protest with a theme, but lacking – oh – I’m guessing policy proposals? if they drafted a budget, would that finally shut you up?… this is encroaching on birther territory.

    All of this spin and bullshit is giving me a headache – in my eye.

    And just for fun:
    3 videos at the bottom. here.
    http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8831

    I can make the case that the TP didn’t have a clear message either.

  154. 154.

    PLH ~ NYC

    I was out there in Foley Square and the vibe was great. A few people rattling the barricades (and pushing them over in one spot) to juice the cops but peaceful and happy. I did not go to the bridge as I did not want to be in that kind of crowd (EST 32K to 36K) on a 100 year old bridge walkway. Very diverse: old, not so old, young, black, white, latino, asian. Was great to be a part of.

  156. 156.

    RossInDetroit

    CBS Radio News sez the Bridge protest in NYC was ‘peaceful’ and almost relaxed. I guess that’s good news. They cite ‘hundreds’ of arrests over the last few days, but not in the bridge protest.

  157. 157.

    Judas Escargot

    @KS in MA:

    Thanks for telling us how you feel about the 99%.

    Anytime, asshole. And I’m just fine with the “99%”, thanks. (Another dickwad comes from out of nowhere, clearly never having read or understood a damned word I’ve written.)

    It’s the (unknown) percentage whose biggest concern in the world appears to be blocked traffic that I’m complaining about.

  158. 158.

    dadanarchist

    @jpe:

    Uhm, I was being a dick on purpose – because your original point was so goddman stupid.

    I lived in New York for 9 years. Like a normal New Yorker, I never drove anywhere within the city.

  160. 160.

    YellowJournalism

    RE: Black Friday insanity

    My mom informed me today that the WalMart in my hometown will open on Thanksgiving Day at 10 pm. We both wondered why they don’t just get rid of the Thanksgiving part of the holiday and call it SpendMas. Instead of turkey, family, and pumpkin pie, it would be stale fast food, pushing up against strangers in line, and trips to the emergency room after those same fellow consumers trample you so they can get the free game with the ten-bucks-off 3DS.

  161. 161.

    Yevgraf

    @RossInDetroit:

    Krugman recounted remarking to some Wall Street people that it must be a pain driving out to the Hamptons every weekend in summer. Finally someone clued him in that they typically go by helicopter.

    Two words – stinger missiles.

  162. 162.

    gaz

    @Judas Escargot:

    Another dickwad comes from out of nowhere, clearly never having read or understood a damned word I’ve written.

    I thought that too when I read your post. I kinda did a lolwut at that response.

    FWIW, I think you were perfectly clear, and though I’ve seen you post before, I didn’t recall whether or not you were an asshole (=P j/k) but I still understood your meaning without recalling your post history…

    FFS – some people’s children, right? =)

  163. 163.

    RossInDetroit

    @YellowJournalism:

    RE: Black Friday insanity

    I don’t fully understand the phenomenon but I’m inclined to attribute stores being open insane hours to pressure from a particularly deranged subset of customers. The vast majority of people are rational and mentally healthy but the gonzo ultrashoppers have gained a lot of influence.

    I blame the media. And I’m only half joking.

  164. 164.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    @Martin: It’s not exactly easy to pull a 200-lb manhole cover. And in a lot of cases they’re bolted down, too.

  165. 165.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    @gaz:

    building more roads actually tended to simply invite more traffic

    This is a well-known phenomenon in transportation planning. There’s a certain density where the only way to get more capacity is to start building transit as an alternative to the roads. As un-American as that may sound.

  167. 167.

    gwangung

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    This is a well-known phenomenon in transportation planning. There’s a certain density where the only way to get more capacity is to start building transit as an alternative to the roads. As un-American as that may sound.

    Yet another empirical fact that the right wing tends to deny (at least in my experience)(lot of left leaning folks, too, but still….)

  169. 169.

    handsmile

    @PLH ~ NYC: (#154)

    Great to read your comment; thanks for posting!

    I got back home just a short while ago having been among the thousands who crossed the Brooklyn Bridge tonight. It took quite a long time because of the many people participating and the narrow cordons that the police had established from Foley Square, up past the City Hall administrative building, then onto and across the bridge walkway.

    During the assembly in Foley Square and throughout the march itself, the mood was one of high spirits and determination. After the outbreaks of violence and tense confrontation that occurred today, it was gratifying that the police did not interfere unduly with the march, and that a relatively peaceful atmosphere prevailed.

    It’s been an inspiring night and I’m very happy that we both got to experience it.

  174. 174.

    Satanicpanic

    Some people here are acting like getting to a shitty job in some soulless corporation on time is something we all look forward to. I would love it if someday I could arrive at work at 10 am and say “damn protesters! Blocked the road!” If I weren’t able to walk to work I would be begging for this.

  175. 175.

    Karen

    @dadanarchist:

    Define “working class.”

    My dad commuted to NY city and he was a salesman for a window display company.

    I know people who commute to NY city.

    People who were killed on 9/11 have commuters to NY city.

    Do you mean to say that they’re not working class? My parents live on Long Island but they’re sure as hell not part of the 1%. They’re barely middle class and by middle class I don’t mean $250K a year.

  176. 176.

    dadanarchist

    @Karen:

    When did I say anything about commuters? I said most people don’t drive in New York, whether its inhabitants or its commuters. Trains, buses, ferries, etc., the majority of people don’t drive in or to the city. That’s what I was getting at.

    I commuted for 7 years on NJ Transit, PATH and the MTA.

  177. 177.

    Karen

    @dadanarchist:

    More commuters drive into the city than you think.

    You didn’t specify commuters but by saying most “working class” people don’t drive in NY City, you’re either forgetting that commuters drive and park in NY city or ignoring that.

    You have still yet to define “working class.”

  178. 178.

    Paul in KY

    @DCLaw1: Good to see you post here. I can’t post any comments at Salon. Since they went to WordPress (FYWP), they have some kind of glitch that stops me from seeing any comments to a story.

    Think I’ll be giving up on Salon, if they don’t get it fixed.

  179. 179.

    OGLiberal

    @Karen: I’d agree that more people drive cars to the city for work than you’d expect. What I want to know is – why? I take three different trains to get to Midtown and it takes me almost 2 and a half hours door-to-door. It sucks but I’d never, ever consider driving there. I can’t understand those who do – if you live in the greater Metropolitan area there is always a public transportation option and in most cases it will be quicker (traffic) and cheaper (gas, tolls) than driving.

  183. 183.

    Tim I

    @Robert:

    What utter bullcrap. I watched the ustream live feed off and on for much of the day, and I can assure you that there were far to many instances of excessive force applied by the NYPD. Many cops were polite and respectful of the protesters, but more than a hand full were quick to strike out with their batons.

    The people arrested for sitting in the street were in no danger, the police had already blocked off traffic. Some of the NYPD tactics were draconian attempts to intimidate the marchers. They split up the marchers by sending long speeding convoys of marked and unmarked police cars, sirens blaring through intersections when the marchers approached.

    They also regularly advance their barricades to trap marchers into smaller and smaller spaces. I lived in NYC for 35 years, and I generally haven’t had many complaints, but their recent actions have caused me to lose all respect for them.

  184. 184.

    Tim I

    @Karen:

    It costs anywhere from $35 to $50 a day to park in Manhattan. I had a space in my apartment buildings garage which cost $780 a month to rent (fortunately, my employer covered it).

    Not many members of the working class can afford fifty bucks a day to park.

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