Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

“woke” is the new caravan.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

75% of people clapping liked the show!

One way or another, he’s a liar.

Republicans in disarray!

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / #OWS / It’s Cold Out There for Occupy Everywhere

It’s Cold Out There for Occupy Everywhere

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Our Balloon Juice correspondent in Missoula, Taryn Hart,reports on a low-tech security-forces tactic suitable for harrassing even the humblest Occupy encampment:

I had heard from several of the 24/7 occupiers at Occupy Missoula that the police have dropped off drunken, belligerent people at the occupation. I happened to be there when just that happened. A woman who was extremely drunk and was belligerent was dropped off by Officer Kasey Williams of the Missoula Police Department, Badge #348. She headed directly into the occupation and was belligerent and threatening. This very small occupation was forced to handle this on their own (which, by the way, they did very well).
__
As soon as I left I called Sgt. Jerry Odlin to speak to him about it. I informed him of the situation and informed him that the occupation has rules prohibiting intoxication. He denied that anything had been done to create disruption at the Occupy Missoula occupation.
__
For those of you who may not have seen the post regarding the authorities’ backhanded eviction attempt of Occupy Missoula – here’s that link. Occupy Missoula is still in dire need of funds and supplies to re-establish and Winterize the occupation – list here.

***********

I will risk the wrath of a thousand purists by saying, if Glenn Greenwald is reporting correctly, this is pretty genius:

… Over the past month, FDL — with the construction of this network — has done something truly amazing. In addition to police crackdowns, it has long been assumed that the greatest challenge to sustaining the Occupy movement would be the approaching harsh winter in Northern cities. The assumption — not unreasonable — was that few people would be willing to occupy outdoor spaces in zero-degree weather or below. FDL, with its “Occupy Supply” project, is all but ensuring the elimination of this problem.
__
Again using nothing more than reader donations, FDL designed and then purchased a full line of winter clothing for free distribution to the various Occupy sites around the nation: hats, sweaters, scarves, gloves, socks, blankets, jackets, thermal underwear, face masks, and more. Every penny FDL raises — 100% — goes exclusively toward the manufacture and free distribution of these products to Occupy protesters. They have thus far raised close to $90,000, and spent roughly $85,000 of it on the purchase of almost 7,000 items. They have also furnished heat generators, tents, and sleeping bags to numerous sites as well.
__
What makes this activism particularly impressive is that it is designed to build an ongoing and highly effective support network. Rather than indiscriminately dumping the clothing at various encampments, FDL has built a network of liasons and representatives to ensure that it goes to the places that need it most, and that it reaches those who will use it for its intended purpose: primarily, the “sleeper” protesters, largely impoverished, who form the backbone of the camps. Beyond that, FDL has expended great efforts to ensure that the goods it distributes are manufactured not in Chinese sweatshops but rather entirely by American unions — a difficult challenge in this age of disappearing American industry — which in turn ensures that the workers producing the products enjoy health insurance, living wages, and a decent standard of living: aims of the Occupy movement itself…
__
One of the most striking conversations I had was with an organizer at Occupy Oakland right around the time that media reports began trying to demonize the camps by pointing to the homeless contingent that had become a part of them. She reacted with scorn at the notion that there was something improper or odd that some of the occupiers would be homeless, as though they are sub-human and should be hidden. But the point she really emphasized was that one of the functions served by the Oakland encampment was that it produced its own food from volunteers in a kitchen that had been built there; they were, in essence, doing something about the problem of homelessness — by feeding them — rather than simply demanding that something be done. Before the Oakland police tore it down, the site had become its own community, existing by its own rules and outside of prevailing societal norms, and one of its functions was to feed those who had no means of feeding themselves. It did not merely complain about the prevailing landscape, but rather provided an alternative form of existence and community to the one it was protesting…

During the original Gilded Age, small donations like this allowed the loose multi-community network known to its media detractors as Tammany Hall to set up the “urban Democratic political machines” that would deliver winning vote blocs well into the 1970s (and remain an evergreen boogey-monster for the Wingnut Welfare Wurlitzer and its Fox-News followers even today). As many of our own immigrant ancestors could attest, dry socks and a hot meal on a cold rainy night are worth a thousand blog posts spelling out the nefarious ties between Jane Hamsher and Grover Norquist — ten thousand, if those posts are larded with in-group jargon about ‘firebaggers’ and ‘Country United Not Timid’. Since our mutual enemies are determined to bring back the Age of the Robber Barons (this time, with cybernetic enhancements!), we can reclaim our progressive forebears’ tactics… one tarp, blanket, or flashlight at a time. No FDL required — but, for their many detractors, looks like they’ve thrown out a challenge.

Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    BGinCHI

    Countdown till some Very Serious person describes this as welfare.

    Then they’ll breathlessly report that someone was seen at an Occupy site enjoying him or herself, or learning something, or knowing the causes of things.

    ETA: Reps from Occupy Chicago are coming to my university tomorrow to give a talk about what they’re doing and to answer questions. I’ll bet we get a really good turnout. I haven’t met anyone under 40 who doesn’t agree with what they’re doing. But then again, I don’t associate with fucking idiots.

  2. 2.

    TheYankeeApologist

    I loathe that website and most of the commenters there, generally speaking, but this is undeniably awesome. Absolutely ironclad, and I laud everyone involved. I won’t be saying this often, but well done, FDL. Well done indeed.

  3. 3.

    cathyx

    Uh oh, you mentioned she(and he) who must not be named on this blog. You’re going to hear about it now.

  5. 5.

    Martin

    I have it on good authority that those peaceful UC Davis students that were pepper sprayed were admitted by the very same employees of the Chancellor as the police. There’s no question they were planted.

    The conspiracy goes far and wide, people.

  7. 7.

    Cris (without an H)

    Good for FDL.

    I’m sure there will be plenty of people questioning (or assuming the worst about) their motivations, but heck with that. This is real action, real support, and it deserves unqualified praise.

  9. 9.

    BGinCHI

    @Martin:

    I have it on good authority that those peaceful UC Davis students that were pepper sprayed were admitted by the very same employees of the Chancellor as the police. There’s no question they were planted by Obama.

    Fixed for enhanced Firedoglakiness.

  10. 10.

    Martin

    Oh, and I think we need to coin a new word. “Poll: No News At All Is More Informative Than Fox”

    There’s got to be a word which means more stupid than someone who knows nothing. Negative knowledge, as it were. I’ve always used ‘retarded’ for that, basically to suggest that someone is actively, deliberately stupid, in an effort to rebrand the term away from its historic meaning, but maybe that’s a misguided effort by me.

    Oh, and I’m not sure ‘Uppityism’ is a word. I am sure it doesn’t need to be a word though.

  11. 11.

    vernon

    Don’t you get it, Anne Laurie? The Right criticizes Obama in bad faith; therefore FDL’s (and Michael Moore’s, and Glenn Greenwald’s) criticisms of him must also be in bad faith. AND everything else they do must be sleazy, wrong, or somehow suspect. Any questions?

  12. 12.

    Genine

    While I’m not a fan of the site (except Tbogg), I think this is good of them. I’d like to think that most people would acknowledge that no matter their personal feelings about the site.

  13. 13.

    BGinCHI

    @Martin: Wrongaware.

    “Lyle was more wrongaware about Muslims after watching Sean Hannity.”

    Or dumbfucked.

    “Roy spent an hour before work getting dumbfucked by Fox & Friends.”

  15. 15.

    askew

    Considering Jane’s shady fundraising past, I would be shocked if some of the money donated for winter clothing doesn’t wind up in her pockets. If I was inclined to donate money to OWS (which I am not), it certainly wouldn’t be through Blackface Jane’s site.

  19. 19.

    Calming Influence

    As in @askew has been dumbfucked by so much negative FDL commentary that @askew isn’t thinking clearly.

  20. 20.

    AxelFoley

    Jane doesn’t do anything that doesn’t benefit Jane in some way.

    Fuck her, fuck Firedoglake and fuck Greenwald.

    Yeah, I said it. Fuck ’em.

  23. 23.

    Mattminus

    OMGZ!FDL is so racist that they won’t even let Chinese people make their goods! Why does Jane Hamsher hate Chinese people so much?

  24. 24.

    lol

    @Calming Influence:

    It’s a fair point to be mistrustful. Nearly all the money Accountability Now raised went into Jane, Ben and Glenn’s pockets instead of what they were advertising.

  25. 25.

    Moonbatman

    I informed him of the situation and informed him that the occupation has rules prohibiting intoxication.

    Just because we are breaking your stupid butthurt rules by Occupying the private property of the 1% does not mean you are exempt from the just rules of the 99%!
    Free Persecuted Political Prisoners Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky who showed Social Justice to the 1% rich Fatcat Petit family!!!

  27. 27.

    Shlemizel

    How dare you say anything nice about FDL or GG – you know that both of them are much much much much worse than any Republican could ever be.

    Or at least thats what I have been led to believe from folks around here

  29. 29.

    jafg

    lol…Anne Laurie shows once again what a useless typing monkey she is by finding a way to praise FDL and Greenwald…..lol.

    Too funny. Hello Anne…anyone in there? By purists you are talking about FDL and Greenwald….not the other way around. Throw Mikey Moore in that soupy mess of purity trolling too.

  30. 30.

    Yevgraf

    Yeah, coz sending money to Occupy Missoula is gonna like accomplish soooooooooo very much due to its high profile.

    Fuck Jane Hamsher, and her little dog, too.

  32. 32.

    Caz

    Anyone who spends money to clothe the voluntarily homeless this winter rather than the involuntarily homeless is an asshole. If you have money for charity, give it to people who are needy, not spoiled trust fund brats who choose to spend cold winter days and nights disrupting local business, leisure, and work.

    Seriously, what is wrong with you people?

  33. 33.

    PatrickG

    @askew: Mind providing some background? I’m not that familiar with FDL/Hamsher, though I gather that the site/she mildly irritate some people here.

  35. 35.

    Mattminus

    @PatrickG:

    Jane Hamsher is a 1000 foot tall Super Hitler who is responsible for the extinction of the 7 races of humanity that you’ve never heard of (because she ATE them all!).

  36. 36.

    General Stuck

    No FDL required—but, for their many detractors, looks like they’ve thrown out a challenge.

    Teehee, send Jane Hamsher money? That’s a good one.

    If you want to help, go to Jenny’s link above to donate directly to the OWS.@Jenny:

  37. 37.

    ChrisNYC

    @Jenny: That site is actually not part of OWS proper. It’s an “affinity group” — check out the “who we are” portion at the bottom. There has been a struggle over the domain. That site wanted $8000 from OWS to take over the domain. I don’t know where the money collected through occupywallst.org goes. Safer to go to the individual occupy websites. Here’s nyc’s:

    http://www.nycga.net/how-to-help/

  42. 42.

    Yevgraf

    Um (raises hand timidly), could somebody tell me why OWS needs money? Are we seeing the next generation of professional left activist failures a-borning?

  44. 44.

    JPL

    Hopefully, the money is being used properly but I’d not chance it.
    BTW..Just in time for Thanksgiving I have a miserable case of poison ivy. Sores all over my face including my lips. I’ve had systemic poison ivy before so did go in for a shot, prednisone and prescription cream. I can live with discomfort on the face for awhile but that systemic stuff is awful… The reaction that I had did not cause breathing problems, just blisters all over my body so that’s good news.

  45. 45.

    PatrickG

    @Mattminus: Clearly she has unprecedented over the internet, too; a Google search for ‘hamsher super hitler’ didn’t turn up much!

    I haven’t visited FDL in a couple of years and hadn’t heard of any fundraising scam. A lazy search didn’t really get me much in the way of primary sources, but since I’m not in the habit of donating to anything via third parties, I’m not particularly motivated to look harder. Anyway, just mildy curious. Feed my lazy hunger for interesting reading material!

  47. 47.

    Jeffro

    I can’t be the first person who’s thought of this or said it, but I’ve been away from BJ for a bit these past couple’a weeks: why don’t the various Occupy groups declare victory, go home, go virtual, and throw up a million ActBlue pages that support the most anti-Wall Street candidates available for 2012?

    Wouldn’t that be a lot more effective, with minimal blowback, than trying to fund emergency equipment and camping gear (especially for places like Missoula and Chicago?!?)

    Just sayin’…

  51. 51.

    Chyron HR

    @Caz:

    voluntarily homeless

    Pssst, Caz, the official position of the Republican party is that all homelessness is “voluntary”. Try to keep up with the talking points, or someone might water the tree of liberty with you.

  52. 52.

    lol

    @Calming Influence:

    The PAC’s FEC reports. There was a fuss about it early last year because Greenwald had claimed on a couple occasions to not be paid by the PAC and the extent of how much money was going to consultants was not readily known.

    Out of the several hundred thousand given to the PAC, the sum-total of output appears to be Greenwald claiming credit for recruiting Bill Halter into the race against Blanche Lincoln. Which is probably news to labor. (And of course, Halter didn’t get any money from them nor did they perform any services.)

    Shortly after the Halter/Lincoln primary, Accountability Now vanished from the web (though it continued paying its vast raft of “consultants”) and as best as I can tell, they never announced any other candidates.

    Edit: Accountability Now’s stated purpose was the recruitment of true progressive challengers to incumbent Democrats. As I said, all they seemed to do was take credit for someone else’s high-profile recruitment and then vanish into the night.

  53. 53.

    some guy

    I would be shocked if some of the money donated for winter clothing doesn’t wind up in her pockets.

    see, that didn’t take long at all.

    Haters gotta hate.

  55. 55.

    dedc79

    So the UC Davis Chancellor is now apologizing to students over the pepper spray incident. It’s amazing what being told “Fix this now or you’re fired” will do to a person’s attitude.

  56. 56.

    taylormattd

    dry socks and a hot meal on a cold rainy night are worth a thousand blog posts spelling out the nefarious ties between Jane Hamsher and Grover Norquist—ten thousand, if those posts are larded with in-group jargon about ‘firebaggers’ and ‘Country United Not Timid’. Since our mutual enemies are determined to bring back the Age of the Robber Barons . . .

    Ironic that you drag out the woe-is-me-poor-put-upon-Jane routine. As if people are simply “attacking” her for no reason, and she hasn’t been a virulently nasty wackjob.

    For christ’s sake, *she* was the one declaring people who don’t sufficiently hate Obama to be enemies: “the dumbest motherfuckers in the world”.

    So take your victim routine and stow it. And please don’t forget to climb down from the cross before your next post.

  58. 58.

    Lojasmo

    @Caz:

    OWS is a place where people are provided food, shelter and warm clothing. Is it beyond imagination that some people who are truly homeless would camp there.

    I spent some time very close to occupy San fran, and that group seemed to contain a lot ov very truly marginal citizens.

    Because I feel dirty from honestly engaging your trolling skank ass, I will add a hearty “fuck you”.

  59. 59.

    Calming Influence

    @Jeffro: There are already a million ActBlue pages, yet how many times have you seen ActBlue mentioned in the press? Occupy Wall Street started just 2 months ago, yet how many times have you seen Occupy Wall Street in the press?

  60. 60.

    Martin

    I think the more effective donation to this movement continuing to get traction would be to hand out pepper spray to any uniformed officers near encampments. Lots of encampments not in the news. Toss in some pepper spray, flash bangs, teargas, and now you’re headlining at CNN.

  61. 61.

    Martin

    @Lojasmo:

    Is it beyond imagination that some people who are truly homeless would camp there.

    So, they’re indoctrinating good, upstanding homeless people now? The left know no depths…

  62. 62.

    some guy

    @ornery:

    the really funny thing is to watch these same whiners go over to Tbogg’s space and bitch about FDL.

    haters gotta hate.

  63. 63.

    harlana

    i understand that the cops are encouraging and directing the homeless to go to local Occupy sites for food and shelter for obvious reasons (further demonization of the movement)

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    @Calming Influence: I hear you, but a) I think half of the press (and definitely more than half of public opinion) is not helpfu to OWS, and b) I’m willing for ActBlue to stay under the radar AND be effective. Press attention does not always equate to effectiveness.

    I’d just rather spend money directly on campaigns that will fight Wall Street. I’d rather pay OWS and other Occupy supporters to go door-knocking and lit-dropping than spend it on huge amounts of gear so they can camp out in a Missoula winter.

    Fortunately we can all donate to whichever part of OWS we feel will be most effective. For me, that will be the most anti-Wall Street campaigns across the country…

  69. 69.

    j

    Just guessing, but as with her “Lt. Dan Choi NEEDS YOUR HELP!!!!” fund raising operation, every time Mrs. Norquist pleads for money (send it to MEEeeeeeeee!”) it’s ALL about HER!

  70. 70.

    bin Lurkin'

    @nepat:

    This is what passes for “genius” now? Seriously?

    Heh.. You have no doubt heard of the Republican candidates for president?

    Compared to them practically anything can be called genius.

  71. 71.

    soonergrunt

    dry socks and a hot meal on a cold rainy night are worth a thousand blog posts spelling out the nefarious ties between Jane Hamsher and Grover Norquist

    When Jane Fucking Hamsher donates an equal amount of the money that she scammed from the firebaggers with her little projects, (and kept to herself in salary) to the amount of money that this project has raised, then she will have begun to atone for her past (and current) behavior, including her work with Grover Fucking Norquist. While we’re on that subject of money that J.F. Hamsher scammed from the firebaggers, Glenn Fucking Greenwald took a piece of that action, too, with their little investigative deal that raised a bunch of money but didn’t actually investigate anything. He’s got his own credibility issues where Jane Fucking Hamsher is concerned.

  72. 72.

    Calming Influence

    @BGinCHI: I cast my vote for “dumbfucked”.@ChrisNYC:

    @Calming Influence: It’s from their FEC filings.
    Example:

    Both you and lol linked to a blog post, not FEC filings.

  73. 73.

    El Tiburon

    @ornery:

    I know FDL is a good group by the people that constantly slander them here.

    Seriously and how.

    These are the same exact titwillows who think they are making a difference because they have an internet connection and read a fucking blog here and there. Take Axel Foley – please.

    At least ABL finally got the message and cured herself of her FDL obsession.

    Oh, and by the way, where is the follow-up to the “Jane Hamsher works for Republicans!!!!” bombshell that dropped a few months ago? Oh yeah, that’s right. Nothing. Because there was nothing there you bunch of twats.

  74. 74.

    Yevgraf

    I’m still trying to figure out why OWS needs 90K in dry socks and warm meals, but nobody is saying.

  75. 75.

    boss bitch

    I am going to put on my Jane Hamsher blackface and write that this is a very ingenious way to co-opt the movement and gain future FDL readers and donors. Produced a line of clothing for OWS? Wow! lets get this saint on TV – BAM! $$$$

    Marketing is her side gig right?

    I’m sure Jane isn’t evil but don’t tell me that shrill opportunistic liar is doing this solely out of the kindness of her heart.

  76. 76.

    The Other Chuck

    @Martin:

    There’s got to be a word which means more stupid than someone who knows nothing.

    “Republican Presidential Candidate”.

  77. 77.

    boss bitch

    Jane Hamsher deserves the same benefit of the doubt and graciousness that she gives to others she may dislike.

  79. 79.

    Omnes Omnibus

    A bit of passive-aggressive trolling for you, Anne Laurie? When you phrase things the way you did in this post, you are just begging people on both sides to start a food fight. If you wanted to just bring attention to what FDL had done, you could have simply done that. That being said, kudos to FDL for doing this.

  80. 80.

    El Tiburon

    @soonergrunt:
    So much stupid and ignorance.

    But yeah, shame on liberals for wanting to pay their bills. At least FDL and Greenwald don’t just sit back and moderate a bunch of fucksticks who come here looking to polish their school yard taunts and butt-slap each other in the shower.

    They are actually out putting themselves out there to affect a change. And you know what? It sometimes takes some money.

    FDL has funded a lot of important research and journalists and activism. If you disagree with that, then you are just an ignorant hillbilly. Hamsher and Greenwald have both attempted to search out viable liberal and progressive candidates to run for office.

    Why do you and others like you get so bent out of shape when a progressive asks for money?

  81. 81.

    Calming Influence

    @Jeffro: I hear you as well, but it’s really not only “one, or the other”. Put your money where you think it will do the most good, but understand that battle are always fought on multiple fronts.

  85. 85.

    Raven

    @El Tiburon: You’re a fucking punk and so is Hamsher. And take your weak shit back there and said I told you so since the bitch banned me as a spammer because I call her on her weak shit.

  93. 93.

    some guy

    I’m still trying to figure out why OWS needs 90K in dry socks and warm meals, but nobody is saying.

    reading isn’t really your strong suit, is it?

    They have thus far raised close to $90,000, and spent roughly $85,000 of it on the purchase of almost 7,000 items. They have also furnished heat generators, tents, and sleeping bags to numerous sites as well.

    Hamsher: Of the $51,000 we have raised to date, we’ve already spent $42,000, most of it on heavy-duty cold weather gear: thinsulate-lined masks and beanies, wool watch caps, polar fleece scarves and blankets, double base-layer self-wicking long underwear, quilted jackets and vests, fleece pullovers, as well as the aforementioned -40 degree socks will all be going out to FDL members who will deliver them to occupations across the country. We hope to announce that gloves, boots and other supplies will be added to the list soon.

  96. 96.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Martin: Fuck that and fuck you. How’s that for camaraderie?

    I try to be helpful.

    ETA: The above is, of course, a lame attempt at snark. I’ll go make dinner now.

  100. 100.

    300baud

    @Jenny:

    I trust [OWS] to use my money a trillion times than outside groups and individuals trying to co-opt them.

    Having sat in on an organizer meeting when I visited, I feel the same way. By the way people talked about applying for funds for various projects, it’s clear to me that their finance committee was being appropriately careful with the donated money.

  101. 101.

    JPL

    @Raven: Look at my comment at 43… I am so jealous. I’m afraid to go grocery shopping because I might make little kids scream.

  102. 102.

    Yevgraf

    Of the $51,000 we have raised to date, we’ve already spent $42,000, most of it on heavy-duty cold weather gear: thinsulate-lined masks and beanies, wool watch caps, polar fleece scarves and blankets, double base-layer self-wicking long underwear, quilted jackets and vests, fleece pullovers, as well as the aforementioned -40 degree socks will all be going out to FDL members who will deliver them to occupations across the country. We hope to announce that gloves, boots and other supplies will be added to the list soon.

    Yeah, I saw that. It still doesn’t make any fucking sense unless you’re outfitting a homeless shelter (as opposed to a bunch of college kids and paid activists, most of whom should be providing for themselves on common items).

  106. 106.

    soonergrunt

    @El Tiburon: Only when Jane Fucking Hamsher asks for money. Because it’s likely going to remodel her house and not to the cause for which she claimed to raise it.
    If I want to give money or goods to some cause, I give the money to that thing. I don’t need Jane Hamsher taking her cut to give to Grover and Glenn. I do it this way because I am posessed of an IQ above room temperature, and because Jane Hamsher is only progressive when it suits her need to fill her bank account.
    How has the ironically named Accountability Now been doing? Support many successful candidates has it? Moved the Overton Window left at all? Because if it, or any of her other fund raising cries, like the whole Bradley Manning thing for example, have accomplished anything beyond raising money for her use, I’m not aware of it.

    And if she’s actually doing what she claims, and has the books open to prove it, then I can honestly say that a) it’s a start, no more, and b) stopped clocks, law of large numbers, etc.
    I’ll believe that she’s an honest broker when she actually starts acting like an honest broker.

  107. 107.

    Raven

    @JPL: Oh nos! Yard work? The energizer bunny (my bride) got a nasty case last year. Another good reason to stay out of the garden!

  110. 110.

    gelfling545

    @BGinCHI: I haven’t met anyone of any age who doesn’t agree with it except for a couple of very (intellectually) young libertarians related by marriage. Even our 55 year old friend who confesses to watching Bill O’Reilly agrees with it.

  111. 111.

    lol

    @ChrisNYC:

    I think the best bit is that her response to the article was basically “Who do you think you are anyways? Nobody cares what you have to say!” while Glenn trotted out his tired and worn conspiracy theories about how he’s being persecuted for being a critic of the President.

  116. 116.

    SectarianSofa

    @jafg:

    Substantiate that and you win a cookie. Doofus.

    (Though if you’re assuming that seeing multiple people who think you’re a waste of time is somehow the work of a sock puppet brigade, well…. )

  117. 117.

    David Koch

    Jane Hamsher wrote not too long ago, “Obama’s supporters are the dumbest motherfuckers in the world” and now she’s asking them for their money? Heh! How are those “dumb motherfuckers” going to cross the bridge to make a contribution when Janey burned it down.

  119. 119.

    soonergrunt

    @David Koch: And once again, another member of the BJ commentariat gets right to the heart of the matter while I dance all around it.
    In addition to what I said, please add what David Koch said here. And one more thing on top of it–
    Fuck Jane Fucking Hamsher and any and all of her supporters. With a chainsaw. On fire.

  120. 120.

    SectarianSofa

    Have to run to do some errands. If one of my sock puppets could pretend to be me ignoring caz and jafg in my absence, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

  122. 122.

    bonkers

    Someone help me out here. Simple question. Once something is “Occupied,” then what?

    Camp out all winter…for as long as it takes…to do what now exactly?

  123. 123.

    jafg

    @SectarianSofa: You seem to be taking things awfully personal even though I flamed someone else. Why would that be? How about posting 10 more times how you are not my little furry multihandle groupie.

  125. 125.

    Raven

    @Yevgraf:

    (Van Morrison)

    Did you ever hear about the great deception
    Well the plastic revolutionaries take the money and run
    Have you ever been down to love city
    Where they rip you off with a smile
    And it don’t take a gun

  127. 127.

    Keith G

    @jafg: Sorry jafy, your peeps over at The People’s View don’t like facing truths and they care not one wit for free speech. They do delete and ban folks who do not join in their hive-mind masturbation circle.

    Go back and play. It is a free country, if that’s what you’re into.

  128. 128.

    Litlebritdifrnt2

    @Caz: Why do you even come here? I mean seriously, you obviously hate everything that we stand for. So your purpose is what exactly?

  129. 129.

    SectarianSofa

    @jafg:

    ‘personally’, you mean. Well, no, in fact. This is merely fun.

    And would you like me to be your furry multi-‘handled’ groupie? I’m not usually into the furry stuff, and the multi- part is a little kinky, but like I said, I’m here for the fun.

  135. 135.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Litlebritdifrnt2: Years ago, when I was a young army officer, I had a First Sergeant (in Brit terms, Company Sergeant Major) explain the concept of a “mad shitter” to me. Basically, a mad shitter comes in variety of forms, some shit in odd places, others smear it on walls, etc.; they somehow take pleasure in doing it. The interesting thing, sociologically speaking, is that approximately 1% of all soldiers are mad shitters, meaning that there is generally one in every company sized unit. I assume that Caz is effectively the blog equivalent. BTW the First Sergeant also said there is no real cure. Either they get caught or they just stop one day.

  140. 140.

    lol

    @Calming Influence:

    I’m curious that you don’t seem to have anything to say about the fact that Accountability Now spent nothing on candidate recruitment.

    For all the protests, Greenwald and Hamsher never actually refuted anything in the piece. Curious innit?

  141. 141.

    ChrisNYC

    @Calming Influence: That’s so funny and absolutely perfect, that you would segue right into personal crap. No. I’m not.

    The whole Hamsher/Greenwald FEC thing was pretty big at the time on the internet. I remember it. It got a fair amount of play on Balloon Juice but I cannot search this site for the life of me so I just googled Hamsher Accountability Now FEC and that post came up. I read it and posted it partly because it linked back here.

    No one says you have to believe it. Obviously you don’t because of the “obvious bias” of that blogger (a dear dear friend of mine and great all around guy — KIDDING — I’m KIDDING — it’s a joke). To each his own.

  143. 143.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Raven: I am not so young. Yes, I am aware of it. Luckily, RHIP and I never had to do it. I guess I’ve never lived. Damn.

  144. 144.

    Calming Influence

    It might be interesting to analyze the positions taken by posters and commenters on FireDogLake at the time FDL fell into disfavor here, and compare them to the positions taken by posters and commenters now on Balloon Juice. (With the caveat that the extremes on both sites be discarded.)

    That’s all I’m saying; that it might be interesting.

    John Cole voted for George Bush.

  146. 146.

    General Stuck

    @Keith G:

    while it’s true that The People’s View does not tolerate firebagging, they most certainly don’t have a problem with facts, which maybe you should address substantially, rather than bloviate at the moon. And where is your little buddy cornerstone, and his (cough) point of view?

  149. 149.

    Calming Influence

    @ChrisNYC: Why is that personal? I just asked. I’m not seeing references to this scandal outside this website, and it seems with the large sums of money you’re talking about there would be a lot of other sources.

    I’m really not trying to be a dick. I’m just not ready to accept that the people you are accusing of criminal fraud are guilty because of links to a biased website. Give me links to indictments.

  150. 150.

    Lojasmo

    @SectarianSofa:

    If all these people think BJ is a waste of time, then why waste their time saying so here?

    Or perhaps I am missing something. Would all y’all like to clarify?

  153. 153.

    Calming Influence

    @Calming Influence: I will moderate this myself. We don’t need to see indictments to know there are laws being broken. It just seems that in the case of Jane Hamsher the guilt was decided because of the political positions she took, and then the evidence was generated to support the case. I hate that shit regardless of the side I support.

  155. 155.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Calming Influence: It is possible that fund raising groups may bring in money but have expenses that are so high that they are unable to actually fund anything without criminal conduct being involved. Poor management/incompetence are equally valid explanations.

  159. 159.

    ChrisNYC

    @Calming Influence: Oh I don’t think you’re a dick even though you just flat made shit up about what I said. I do wonder who is PAYING you to post here with your OBVIOUS BIAS. I’m just ASKING! (Kidding. I’m kidding.)

    When it comes down to it, I don’t think we’re going to see eye to eye — not because of FDL and its merits or flaws — but because you said that analyzing BJ blog posts and comments would be “interesting.” I can think of a lot of words to describe doing that and “interesting” would sure as hell not be one of them.

  160. 160.

    Lol

    Spending all your PAC money on operating expenses isn’t against the law. It is, however, fairly unethical.

    The bottom line is that AN had a mission of recruiting progressives for office and seems to have recruited no one except Halter. Speaking as someone who knows several people involved at the higher levels of that campaign, that smells like bullshit. (Labor really gets the credit.) Add in the fly by night quality the whole operation by shutting down months before the election, the fact that Glenn and Jane never really offered any accounting for what they concretely did, and you’ve got something that screams scam.

  161. 161.

    Calming Influence

    @ChrisNYC: I think we would actually see eye to eye on most things. I just believe that there is a “cultural” (for lack of a better word) bias against FDL here on Balloon Juice; that this bias developed during the 2008 election season; and that it has tended to color any mention of FDL ever since, regardless of the facts.

    We all have blind spots, and this may be one of mine.

  162. 162.

    Trakker

    Gosh, this is a great idea. No, it’s a sucky idea. Great. Sucky. Great. Sucky. It’s genius! No, Hamsher is a Obama-hating whorebitch, and she hangs with GG who writes bad things about Obama. Doesn’t matter, this is a great idea and it will help get the movement throught the winter. No, you’re an ass if you trust anyone at FDL – except TBOGG.

    FDL is asking for help distributing the cold weather gear at specific locations: Albany, NY, tomorrow at 5:00 is posted right now. If anyone lives nearby it would be good to know how much they give out, how useful it is, and how well made it is.

    I’m with Anne. This is a great idea.

  166. 166.

    Mary

    Anyone who would give money to Jane Hamsher, a proven thief, based on the word of her crony, Glenn Greenwald, another proven thief, is either not paying attention or is a very slow learner.

    I am shocked that John Cole would let a front pager on Balloon Juice solicit donations on behalf of these crooks.

    signed, Accountability Now donor/sucker who was personally attacked by Glenn Greenwald on Balloon Juice for asking where the money went

  167. 167.

    Caz

    “I informed him of the situation and informed him that the occupation has rules prohibiting intoxication.”

    A spontaneous Woodstock; leaderless, messageless, disrupting our daily lives, advocating anarchy, and composed of young, spoiled, hippy types.

    Get a grip, idiots.

  168. 168.

    soonergrunt

    @Omnes Omnibus: We had one at Fort Ord. The guy would shit in the laundry rooms, in the commo room, in the CO’s spot on the company street. Got to the point where every platoon had sentries out when we were in garrison. The MS even left a little pile on the XO’s desk. They never did catch the guy.

    @Raven: In Afghanistan this last time, I was the junior guy on our Embedded Trainer Team as an E-6. I got to burn the honey pot. But since there was only three of us, it wasn’t that bad. Only had to do it about once every few days. And after the other team linked up with us, there were three of us doing it. One NEVER forgets that smell.

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