I’ll be missing tonight’s Republican debate because of the flight I miraculously secured at the last minute. E.J. Dionne wonders who will put in a major flub tonight, but it seems to me the magic is over, that Cain can Uz-beki-beki-beki all he wants, he’s out of the race anyway, and Perry can fail to name two agencies all he wants, he’s out of the race.
And that sucks. I like Cain’s gonzo 9-9-9 pizza marketing and I like Perry’s aging Joe Buck “I’m one helluva stud” shtick. I didn’t even mind Perry’s booze-and-vicodin inflected speeches (though I will admit that Cain’s singing at that presser turned my stomach). These two may be idiots, but at least they’ve got charisma. Newt and Romney don’t.
It’s starting to remind me of that Fabulous Mr. Ripley movie. When Jude Law and PSH were on-screen, it was great, but after they were killed, we were left to contemplate the screen absence charisma void of Matt Damon wanking around in a lime green speedo with the inexplicable icon Gwyneth.
Let’s enjoy these last few debates while we can.
Ken
Terry Pratchett suggests the word “charisn’tma” for people who are attractively repellent – the kind of “It’s horrible but I can’t look away” that you sometimes get with auto accidents. Gingrich has charisn’tma, but Romney is just a well-polished lukewarm void.
Yutsano
I’ll be working. I somehow will manage.
feebog
Enjoy these debates? Watching one of these debacles makes me want to puke. Whether its Newt and his pompous pontificating, or Perry wondering where he left his car keys, or LaBachman (Thank you Charles Pierce) trying to out God everyone else on the stage, they are all ugly, morally depraved morons.
No thanks. I’ll watch TRMS, get the gist with a few clips and save myself from having to slit my wrists.
harlana
fixt
jl
I was going to skip the rest of the debates, but with Newt on top, and surely scheduled for lots of talk time, I won’t be able to resist checking in. I think Newt’s rid on the crest of the wave will be very short, so won’t have to worry about watching too many more of these things.
Where do I find a link?
I hope it is not some weird HSN pay per view thing, sort of like that last one.
jacy
Another fucking debate already? Can’t the country get some kind or restraining order?
DougJ
@harlana:
Such a fine line between charismatic and entertaining douche nozzle.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Doug: I leave it to you to watch these debates so I don’t have to.
p.a.
lay off Gwyneth. she’s a definite ‘schwing’ for me.
fasteddie9318
Why is Mort Zuckerman on my teevee for any reason other than to be publicly stoned (with stones, not weed)? Does eventheliberal MSNBC have some sort of lying douchebag quota to fill?
DougJ
@p.a.:
I just don’t get her.
JGabriel
@Yutsano:
I’ll have to choose between Skyrim and the GOP Debate…
I wonder which will win?
.
Culture of Truth
I like Paltrow. Damon I could take or leave.
harlana
@feebog: from what i have heard about this weekend’s debate (or family forum or what have you), they were all trying to out-Jesus one another, including Newt, which is just absolutely laughable.
jl
Never mind the link. Looks like it is on CNN.
Hope they have some new cheap gimmick.
I missed the one with the sideline interviews with the candidates, just saw it on the clips. THat was so tacky and weird, it was cool.
They should try that thing were some analyst can draw on the screen while the action unfolds. Then they could draw squiggles and circles to show just where Mitt grabbed Perry by the collar and got in his face, etc.
Alex S.
I’ve been a bit out of the loop lately but I’m enjoying the Newt bubble. I think that he’s a pretty skilled demagogue. I can imagine that Huntsman is going to get some traction among the Wall Street Journal crowd. His attack on Romney’s trade policy against China was effective in these circles. Also, he sat down for an interview with the WSJ this week as well. I can actually see a potential rift between Romney’s Village and Huntsman’s Wall Street. But I’m not going to watch the debate, I’m still annoyed that my bet on Perry is going to lose. The wheel is still spinning and the fundamentals haven’t changed, but there isn’t much time anymore. Christmas time is coming so we’ve got maybe 4 weeks of campaigning left.
Mike Goetz
Foreign policy debate…my God, this is going to be assholes and elbows. None of these twerps has the least bit of chops in this area, beyond bingo-card phrases like: weak, apology, surrender, retreat, defeat. My dark horse most popular word for tonight is “lazy”.
harlana
my new name for Newt, “Bag o’ Bile”
the others, they just make me laugh. Newt makes me wanna puke. He wants a second crack at destroying the country and he’d do a damned fine job if he ever got the chance.
aimai
OT but not. I am very fond of Matt Damon, in a way. But that movie, the Ripley movie, was just massively miscast–Jude Law should totally have been Ripley. He’s creepy at the best of times, when he’s playing the hero. Double plus creepy if he’d been Ripley.
aimai
Satanicpanic
I don’t have cable so I almost never watch TV but the other day I was at a friends and an ad for Jersey Shore came on… well, you can see where I’m going with this.
Yutsano
@JGabriel: Is it really an either/or proposition? :)
I’m planning my route home for the holiday. Right now I may have to go the long way and arrive at oh dark thirty. If the mountain weather/snow cooperates I won’t have to though.
General Stuck
Soulless Romney is up with his first anti Obama add quoting Obama saying John Mccain’s words. And Newt is in the final stages for liftoff as an orbiting moon circa Planet Asshole.
I won’t watch the debate, for the same reason I don’t ride in clown cars on a crowded freeway.
Culture of Truth
I’ve tried to watch all the debates. They are endless fun. Tonight they will try to spin Obama as weak and his foreign policy as a failure, and we should keeptroopsthere and also bringthemhome and also listentothegeneralsontheground.
EconWatcher
Still not buying that Perry is definitely out, although I understand the numbers look pretty dismal for him now, and the money spigot no longer flows.
My problem is, the 75% who just don’t like Romney have to go somewhere. Where do they go? Newt’s balloon will be deflated soon enough; as someone said, even his baggage has baggage. Where do they go?
It’s true, as we now know, that Perry is only a plausible candidate on paper. But even that is more than the rest of them can claim. I still think there’s a good chance they go back to Perry.
Mike Goetz
By the way, it’s “Talented Mr. Ripley” not “Fabulous”.
Violet
Flying the day or two before Thanksgiving is a good opportunity to get bumped off the flight and get a flight voucher. I did that once and my next flight was free. While at the airport I ran into a friend whose told me her brother deliberately booked flights on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving so he could get bumped off them. One year he got bumped off the first flight, booked on the next one, which turned out to be overbooked so he volunteered to be bumped off that one, lather rinse repeat. He ended up with four flight vouchers. Not too shabby.
I like Matt Damon. I thought he was appropriately creepy in “Ripley.” I’ve only liked Gwyneth in “Shakespeare in Love.” Since then it’s been all downhill for her, imho.
After this debate, is there another one on Saturday or next week? They wouldn’t allow an entire week to go by without a debate, would they?
Seems like Romney is getting off pretty easily in these debates. The focus is always on the not-Romney flavor of the week, and Romney gets to fly under the radar. He doesn’t seem very bloodied. Maybe he’s just a better debater.
Amir Khalid
I wouldn’t complain too much about these Republican debates. The more of them there are, so I hear, the more the American public gets to see just how unfit for the presidency the candidates are, and the better Obama looks by comparison. And best of all, they do inspire the Guardian’s live-bloggers to great feats of mockery.
dmsilev
@JGabriel:
Maybe, if we’re very lucky, the entire GOP field will get eaten by a dragon. Or perhaps Wolf Blitzer will in fact turn out to be a werewolf and will maul several of them live on camera.
arguingwithsignposts
In other news, Grover Fucking Norquist gets space on the Guardian website to spew his bullshit.
harlana
@Culture of Truth:
you left out CUT TAXES FOR THE JOB CREATORS!
Carlo Pietro Giovanni Guglielmo Tebaldo Ponzi
Any bets on which one will praise Lt. Pepperspray first?
I’m betting Cain. Too bad the RNC didn’t think to manufacture shot glasses with all the candidates faces on them. It would certainly make watching the debates more funner and raise some extra cash to defeat the O, no?
Culture of Truth
@harlana: This is foreign policy but they will probably get to that.
scav
@arguingwithsignposts: Does the man want to be a chew toy?
harlana
aimai & violet: how old am I that I’ve never even heard of People’s Sexiest Man Alive this year? whatshisname?
i’m with Colbert, it should just be McConaughey every year.
General Stuck
The GOP race graphed as a crooked mile.
gogol's wife
@Mike Goetz:
Fabulous Mr. Ripley is funny, I like it.
RossInDetroit
@Amir Khalid:
Assuming anyone is paying attention besides the rabid ‘wingers who have already made up their minds.
If the GOP candidates’ debate gaffes and idiocies have any impact on the larger population it will be because they end up in an Obama ad. Which is why I’m for more debates.
catclub
Newt is more unpopular the more that he is seen by the public. It is similar to Giuliani’s appeal in 2008.
I agree with other posters that Perry could have another moment in the sun.
gogol's wife
@harlana:
god, I know. Bradley Cooper. Who could be more bland? Look in this month’s Vanity Fair for a picture from 1958 of Clark Gable, Van Heflin, Gary Cooper, and James Stewart in formal dress celebrating New Year’s Eve with tiny little martinis at Romanoff’s. They’re all a little bit over the hill, but there is more sex appeal in any one of their little fingers than in Bradley Cooper’s whole body. It’s just sad. (I love those tiny little martinis people used to drink. So elegant.)
harlana
@Culture of Truth: oh, ANOTHER let’s-invade-Iran, ahem, i mean, foreign policy debate
harlana
@gogol’s wife: and back in the day when everybody had a wetbar in their home, woohoo! anybody who didn’t have a cocktail was uncivilized.
Yutsano
@harlana: But you know WILLARD TRIED A BEER ONCE! IT’S TWUE!!
JGabriel
@aimai:
No man should look that good. Law was perfectly cast as a robot in AI, because he already exists in his own uncanny valley of one.
.
bobbo
You are so wrong about Matt Damon. Love him, love the green speedo.
Culture of Truth
Yes, tonight our candidates will be WantsToAttackIran, StandsWithIsrael, SpeaksBusinessChinese, StayInIraq, WhyAreWeStillInKorea, IsLibyaPartofFrance and GaysAreEverywhere
schrodinger's cat
Who the hell is Bradley Cooper? never heard of him. My vote for sexiest man, would be Michael Fassbender.
ETA: Or Jon Hamm.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@jl:
Coming up next on our Dialing for Dollars Matinee schedule, we have two classic movies for your viewing pleasure: The Fabulous Mr. Ripley vs. Breakfast at Tiffany’s.
Martin
Man, I just don’t know how these guys pivot from these positions to something the electorate will tolerate.
One rule of negotiation is never insist on something you aren’t prepared to follow through on – because you might get called on it. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see Obama use that, at least in a rhetorical sense, at some point.
These guys are going all in on a ton of shit, and I don’t see how they draw back against a rational counterargument without looking like an insane idiot.
Citizen_X
@harlana: Oh, no no no. It’s AMERICANEXCEPTIONALISM!
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@arguingwithsignposts: Since, according to wikipedia, Social Security is the largest government program in the world in dollars, he’s not wanting to return to any America except for the one where he gets to own slaves, shoot indians, and steal because poor people cannot afford to pay the police off.
Yutsano
@schrodinger’s cat: I have. And sorry but no. I don’t care how blue his eyes are.
gnomedad
Paltrow was adorable as Pepper Potts. Haven’t really kept track of her otherwise.
jwb
@arguingwithsignposts: Why is the Guardian giving space to Grover Fucking Norquist?
Violet
@harlana:
I had to google to see who it was. Bradley Cooper. He was in the hangover, which I watched on an airplane or something like that. He’s okay. Good looking enough. But sexy? Notsomuch.
The whole “Sexiest man alive” thing is so stupid anyway. There are probably a lot of way sexier guys who aren’t actors. It’s just a dumb PR thing.
harlana
as for actors, the young whippersnappers these days, they generally don’t do much for me, but then i have rather unconventional tastes some times. anyway, they’re just too perfect looking. and what ever happened to chest hair? what’s wrong with a little chest hair? (i mean, if you’re a guy) =)
harlana
@Violet: i know, it’s pretty stupid, thanks for telling me who he is/was — too lazy and didn’t care enough to google it
Bill
Check out the Symphony of Insanity, a hilarious pastiche of Herman Cain’s greatest hits.
Amir Khalid
@Culture of Truth:
I saw this story at Slate not long ago, which said Jon Huntsman’s Mandarin isn’t all that good. According to the story, Huntsman never speaks extemporaneously in the language, never gave a speech of any length in it during his ambassadorship, and his few attempts at Mandarin in front of US media (few if any of whom speak the language themselves) have apparently been plagued by pronunciation and grammatical errors. I’d like to see James Fallows (who lives in China) or some other Mandarin-speaking American journalist ask him for an interview in the language.
And speaking of presidential candidates, I found this on TPM about what song the Roots played to introduce Michele Bachmann on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon.
Hill Dweller
The sad truth is the Republicans can roll out just about anyone, and that person will have a real shot at being President. Hell, Romney is leading Obama in Michigan and tied with him in Pennsylvania, despite being a more robotic version of Gordon Gecko.
RossInDetroit
@Hill Dweller:
Romney’s father George was the head of American Motors and served as Governor of MI, so it’s not a level playing field here.
OTOH, Mitt argued strongly against the 2008 Big 3 bailout.
Paul in KY
@RossInDetroit: I feel confident we carry Michigan. If we don’t, we’re in a world of hurt.
RossInDetroit
@Paul in KY:
Dems will carry Metro Detroit strongly. The left coast is ‘wingerville so who knows. And pretty much everything – a lot of territory – north of Grand Rapids is rural. They’re strongly red. It’s a mixed bag.
I think this is the only state besides NJ that Wallace won in the primaries. We can be a wild card.
Yutsano
@RossInDetroit: Michigan IIRC went strongly for Obama last time. And there will be heavy ad rotations of Willard arguing against the bailout on the air waves no doubt. Add a nice photo op of Chrysler hiring and suddenly Obama don’t look too bad.
And since Willard is making little to no showing in Ohio, it renders pretty much the rest moot. Obama will most likely sweep until at least North Carolina, then it could get dicey.
Turgidson
@arguingwithsignposts:
Ah yes, when in doubt, harken back to an America that never existed except in the fever dreams of GOP-aligned knuckledraggers and for a few dozen plutocrats.
The pre-“welfare state” USA sucked ass, when compared to what came after that class traitor sockulist FDR and his mentally challenged little friend Truman (and later LBJ) installed all their tyrannical welfare programs, for anyone who wasn’t really stinking rich.
Grover Fucking Norquist. I’ve never been in a real fight in my life, and the list of people in the world that I consider just brutally assaulting on sight is pretty short, but he’s definitely on it (along with the shining stars of the Bush Admin, Paul Ryan and a few others). And I’m pretty sure I am much bigger than that simpering dipshit masquerading as a patriotic American, so…it’d be hard to resist the temptation.
edit: no, I wouldn’t actually attack these people. Because the consequences are too severe and those festering boils aren’t worth it. Also, I can haz Moore award?
Hill Dweller
@RossInDetroit: There is no doubt Romney is an awful candidate, which will become more apparent as the campaign progresses(provided he gets the nominations). No amount of MSM fluffing will change that.
But the American electorate is arguably the most ignorant(relative to the amount of accurate information available to them) in recorded history. And the economy sucks. Multiple Choice Mitt will have a coin flips chance of winning.
If Europe implodes and/or the Republicans refuse to extend the payroll tax breaks and unemployment benefits, possibly plunging us back into recession, Romney’s chances become even better.
Obama is head and shoulders better than anyone on the Republican side, but it likely won’t matter. He is going to be in the fight of his political life.
Catsy
@harlana:
Can’t stand it myself, and am very glad my family is genetically disinclined to developing a lot of it. It gets sweaty and gross in the summer, and what little I have just adds to the misery index of that season for me. I can always put on another layer in the winter–but unless you want to depilate (and I don’t) you can’t take off your hair.
Practical reasons aside, excessive body hair just fills me with a powerful sense of “do not want” revulsion, and I can’t explain it any better than that.
RossInDetroit
@Hill Dweller:
I would quibble slightly here. Considering how drastically unsuited he is to govern, and how generally unattractive, I’d say that the fact he’s still in the race means he’s a bad candidate but a good campaigner. He should have joined Huntsman in the Single Digit Club long ago but he’s still in the race.
Oh, hell. I don’t know anything about what’s going to happen. This election is just incomprehensible on so many levels.
RossInDetroit
@Hill Dweller:
Maybe not as devastating as feared. Some economists think the European crisis and the chances of it getting worse have already been absorbed here, and have been suppressing our economic recovery to some extent.
It’s also said that a real Eurocrash might not completely clobber us because Europe isn’t as tightly bound to the US economy as it once was.
Still, if they screw up big, it’s not going to help us.
Turgidson
@Martin:
Easy. If it’s Newt, he’ll just go onto the Sunday shows and claim that everything he said in the debates is a “falsehood.” And he won’t get pushback on it except from liberal blogs and MSNBC. If it’s Romney, well, he’ll still change his position another 6-8 times between now and the general and people will get tired of trying to keep up and just shrug. Also with no media pushback.
Oh and we’ll get a lot of “does Obama hate Israel? We’ll convene a Very Serious Panel of people who will all strongly hint he does, you decide” segments on the news.
Tone in DC
The debates have been just a bit better than rectal surgery for the country. Without the bonus of removed polyps.
As for the Talented Mr. Ripley… Jude Law WOULD have made a better Tom Ripley. Then again, I don’t get how anyone casts Matt Damon as a lead in any movie. Sly Stallone has more range than he does.
The Ancient Randonneur
Sigh … Is it too much to think Romney may pull the bolt out of his neck and go all Ross Perot conspiracy theorist on us?
jayjaybear
Missing a Republican debate is no big deal. After all, there’ll be another one in a couple of hours.
aimai
I think what Jayjaybear means is “Don’t run for a debate, there’ll always be another.” Hat tip the 2000 year old man.
aimai
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Fortunately, balloonbaggers will not allow this observation to be made about every politician hired to do a job.
.
.
Suffern ACE
Let’s see. Since we just had a foreign policy themed debate last week, I think this one is redundant. Iran must be stopped at all costs. No foreign aid to anyone unless they sign personal oaths to the president. We shouldn’t leave Afghanistan because we’re ahead, or will be soon. Withdrawl timetables are surrendering!
harlana
well, at least we can look forward to some more “blasphemous” comments from Ron Paul, like, Reagan traded arms for hostages! good times.
Suffern ACE
@harlana: He’s reformed after Sunday’s debate. Now the topic will be the superiority of foreign policy in the time of the Patriarchs and Judges.
patroclus
Philip Seymour Hoffman would have made a great Ripley. Or maybe that British guy who played Dorian Grey recently. But not Matt Damon.
rikryah
well, I will be following the debate thread for those brave enough to watch that nonsense.
handsmile
I’d rather sit on a wall in front of Lt. John Pike than watch a GOP presidential debate. Never have, never will (at least until the stroke). My conviction is inspired by that immortal phrase of America’s Favorite First Lady, Babs Bush, “Why should I waste my beautiful mind…”
Now in search of other petty distractions from work….
The Fabulous Mr. Ripley. The Talented Baker Boys. Shakespeare in Love and Death. Breakfast with the Gingrichs at Tiffanys‘….Ah, this could go on for hours.
Re Tom Ripley: To my mind, no actor has better embodied Highsmith’s amoral rogue than Dennis Hopper in The American Friend by Wim Wenders (1977), surpassing even Alain Delon’s performance in Purple Noon. “A littler older, a little more confused.”
Also starring the magnificent Bruno Ganz, this is a film to seek out and savor. One of my very favorite.
Joel
@aimai: Jude Law was best at Gattaca. Damon was a bad casting pick, I agree.
kc
“The Talented Mr. Ripley” was a great movie. But what do you know, Sullivan-reader!
Triassic Sands
Newt may not have charisma, but he’s most certainly what Krugman called him — the stupid person’s idea of what a smart person sounds like (or words to that effect). Whoever came up with that first really nailed Gingrich.
It explains perfectly why Gingrich, despite all that’s horribly wrong with him, might hang on to win the nomination — his entire audience is made of stupid people who probably think he sounds smart. A perfect fit. Or should I say a perfect Republican fit.
Note: that was the first time I’d heard that description of Gingrich, but it sounds like something that may have been around for years, and somehow I missed hearing it. Does anyone know who said that first? Was it Krugman?
Jenny
Newt’s gonna win the nomination.
New poll shows him with a 15 pt. lead in South Carolina.
SiubhanDuinne
@JGabriel:
One of the best things I ever saw him in was the Stephen Fry vehicle Wilde. Jude Law played Lord Alfred Douglas (“Bosie”) in a truly brilliant piece of casting.
One of my all-time favorite films. I’m going to dig it out and rewatch when I get back home.
moops
Newt can’t be the pick. The world is just not that mean and stupid to pick this kind of man to vie for the most powerful office on earth.
Bag of Bile indeed. If Baggage has baggage. If the media don’t rip him to shreds, then the whole endeavor is corrupt.
Suffern ACE
@moops: He has ‘ideas’, although very few will dare say what they are.
Chuck Butcher
The debates would be fun in a black comedy way if it weren’t for the fact that a sizable number take their shit seriously.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@moops:
The 20th Century is holding for you on line 2. It was a little hard to understand at first, you know how old people tend to mumble; something about tranche warfare and fawcentration camps and atomic balms. It didn’t sound like a happy customer.
NR
@Jenny: Newt will be the perfect Bad Cop. He’ll do his job beautifully–making the corporate flack look reasonable and moderate by comparison.
RSA
@Culture of Truth:
And to summarize the debate, we have “Multimillionaire says higher taxes on the rich will hurt America”, “Serial adulterer touts family values”, “Governor forgets which state he’s from,” and “Pizza guy says crazy stuff with numbers in it”…
NobodySpecial
The part of the debates that tells the whole story for me is the part where they basically admit that they can’t get rid of anyone no matter how low they poll for fear of alienating some voter. Bachmann’s been polling slightly lower than anthrax for a few months now, but no one dare drop her for the fundie explosion.
harlana
when are the debates? who is broadcasting?
burnspbesq
Well, lookee here: a sane Republican.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/22/grover-norquist-gop-betrayed-us-military
AA+ Bonds
lolllllllllllllllllllllllll
harlana
got it, nvm (hosted by Heritage Foundation/CNN)
Suffern ACE
@burnspbesq: I’m not yet quite certain about that. Yes, willing to raise taxes to keep military funding intact. We’re going to have to revert to the mean in terms of this spending, and that might mean letting some parts of the world be. It’s a little crazy to think that we can be the dominant military power on every continent forever.
burnspbesq
@Suffern ACE:
Actually, it’s an absolute certainty that we can be the dominant power on every continent forever, if we choose to be. Whether that would be a wise choice is a whole other thing.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
Great movie. As (I think) I have said before, Stephen Fry was robbed of an Oscar nomination for that.
Triassic Sands
@burnspbesq:
Wow. Apart from being an absurdly sweeping statement, your assertion also flies in the face of all human history. I imagine the Egyptians, Romans, Spanish, Brits, Hitler, and others all felt the same way. To quote that great American hero, Rick “Numbskull” Perry: “Oops.”
The Sailor
@DougJ: Be careful about insulting Paltrow, in grad school she specialized in de-balling the male rats … oh, wait, that was Lisa Kudrow.
All those blonds look alike to me.