Just thought I would point out that Dems up to and including Obama are nigh desperate to pass a bill with some bipartisan cover. The only thing so far that saved us from god knows how many hideous new laws is the lunatic demands of the Republican far right.
Remember, the Republican near right is still bugshit crazy. If Olympia Snowe had her way she would get together with some blue dogs and write a bunch tax cuts offset by punishing the poor. Thank god the GOP approaches every potential ‘deal’ with such hysterically awful terms that even Max Baucus has to walk away.
Jeebus, I give up.
As evidenced by Obama near completely ignoring the supercommittee. Like I said, I give up, so commence with democrats bashing democrats, just because it feels good.
I’m doubtful of the long-term viability of a political strategy (assuming it’s an actual strategy, which I don’t) which showcases one’s willingness to surrender on punitive, but not quite unconditional terms, while relying on your opponent to be too bugfuck nuts to accept that surrender.
If Olympia Snowe
Oh wasn’t that 0 friend, oh well so much for helping Main Street
Wtf is this firebagger babbling about?
A happy thought but 0 and company only have one plan and it’s nothing for Main Street.
Villago Delenda Est
Dunno why, but “Grover Norquist” seems to spawn a bunch of Googleads for World of Warcraft and Rift.
Perhaps this is because of the fantasy world of Tax Cuts = more revenue is involved here?
Maybe that’s the only strategy for dealing with bugfuck nuts.
Or, of course, Obama could just beat the fuckers senseless with his bully pulpit, then pass shit via el presidente declarations.
@Holden Pattern: I would be too except that IT KEEPS WORKING. The NeoConfederates seem to be determined to ride that crazy train all the way to the station, and I think somebody’s figured that out.
Well, I posted on this earlier, but if Obama backs up his veto threats, it will be a beautiful, beautiful thing. ‘doing nothing’ will cut out a huge amount of fat out of defense spending, the Bush tax cuts would be gone. Deficit problem solved.
The danger is that the Rethugs get less insane, and offer some minimalist tax ‘increase’, that is a joke.
Luckily, there is no current reason for Obama to buckle, he has the veto threat, and the budget is pretty much set to 2013. Even if there are 13 shaky demo senators, 34 Senators will support any Obama veto – so he can pretty much say no to about anything.
I have to say though, that list on Drum’s post – what the hell is wrong with the Rethugs?
Negotiating with fanatics indeed.
I can only think they continue to do so, because they think they have some fulcrum point with which to shut down the economy?
They were right last time – they keep getting what they want.
Luckily, Obama seems to be staying strong with the veto threat.
Are you fucking serious, Obama just absolutely Pwnd the republicans and you are whining? WTF
I don’t see the Republicans returning to anything resembling sanity anytime soon, so I think it’s a strictly hypothetical risk that any of them would say, “Why, yes, we will take that deal!”
The very few times that one of them has even attempted to accept a deal offered by Obama, they promptly get slapped down by their own side. Remember when Boehner publicly announced that he had reached a deal on the debt ceiling, only for the Tea Partiers in the House to flip out and kill it?
they already did, and dems said shove it.
@Litlebritdifrnt2: Actually Tim F, you might want to use current history to address. The demos DID walk away, President Obama DID issue veto threats.
Earlier this year, it was all ‘grand bargain, grand bargain’, no matter how much the Rethugs treated Dems and Obama with contempt.
Now though, at least Dems are WALKING AWAY.
@General Stuck: Well Stuck, you big Obamabot you, I may be Charlie Brown, but one, I agree with you, and two, if Obama stands strong, credible, behind his veto threat, we may end up getting a pretty good haircut of the military-industrial complex.
And let me tell you, that would be SWEET.
Come on, Blitz, ask Cain a question about Libya, you know yer dyin’ to.
They walked away then and now, or, demanded large revenue increases to be part of any deal. They might be more profound and blunt it being the campaign season now. But the substance has been the same then and now.
Explain. What revenue increases were in the deficit reduction deal?
@JC: read the list of GOP demands at my link and tell me why the Dems walked away.
I won’t use the “F” word, but certain people are desperate to prove that they were right and the Super Committee was all kabuki theater that would let Obama kill Social Security and Medicare like certain people have been swearing for three years he was about to do. The “Cat Food Commission” died out with no action just like we all told them it would, so they immediately dropped that and insisted that, no, this was the new Big Bad that would kill us all (or at least our entitlements) just like Obama planned to do all along.
Turns out, it was all kabuki theater, but not the play the Republicans thought they were acting in. Now certain people are scrambling around trying to figure out a way that this was Democratic FAIL because, after all, our team can’t actually win.
“Just thought I would point out that Dems up to and including Obama are nigh desperate to pass a bill with some bipartisan cover”.
No doubt the GOP is bat-shit crazy. The question is why? Why are Obama and congressional democrats so desperate to pass legislation so at odds with the interests of party’s rank and file?
You were talking about the “Grand Bargain stuff, and there was most certainly demands of major revenue raising or no deal from Obama. The end deal was much smaller and there wasn’t revenue attached to that.
@Tim F.: I did, I did. It is nuts, I agree.
But the deficit reduction deal was nuts too.
I’m saying there has been a shift, right? Dems are walking away, a bit less desperate to make a deal. And that shift is worth documenting.
Again, I may be Charlie Brown, as some effed up deal is made at the last minute, and I will sit here going “AAAAUUUGGGGHHH!”
But I have a bit of hope.
It was nuts on the surface, but once people dug into it, they discovered it was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors — “cutting” programs that were already scheduled to end, stuff like that. There really weren’t any substantive cuts in it at all.
ETA: But you’re right, the Democrats are more willing to publicly walk away rather than handwave and pretend to agree. The upcoming election probably has a whole lot to do with that.
Well, we will see – certainly no new revenues, on the other hand, the deficit deal are for the military, and for business providers – so no actual humans were harmed in the making of this deal.
From your link.
It doesn’t really matter what repubs were demanding in the end, when they would never accept Obama’s deal. You could flip that around if you want to be highly cynical, but it would still be grounded in what Obama and dems were demanding. That wingers wouldn’t accept.
@General Stuck: The whole point is to reset the revenue pie – OWS and inequality, etc, have to be reflected in our tax code. And Obama campaigned on ending the Bush tax cuts, so I’m still holding him to that.
@Mnemosyne: Right – they killed it because then they GOT A BETTER DEAL, from the perspective of no new revenues.
jeebus, what a poorly argued whiny post. Go take your meds, tim.
Me too, at least for the wealthy. I watched last year’s extension of them through gritted teeth, but was at least mollified that he extracted a fair amount of necessary and good things out of that deal and only kicked the can 2 years down the road. I fully expect him to come through next time the deadline approaches – and given how far into the tank for Grover Fucking Norquist the GOPers are, they won’t accept any deal that doesn’t make them permanent or worse, so he ought to get a chance to hold the line next year. He knows the public is with him, and he doesn’t need to rely on dipshits like Lieberman for this – Holy Joe and his merry band of centrist blowhards can do what they do best: nothing.
@Turgidson: Too right!
Odie Hugh Manatee
Regarding the superdupercommittee, IMO Obama and the Democrats are in a good position. Nothing came out of the superdupercommittee and unless they can pull a rabbit out of their asses, nothing will. BAM!, defense spending is automatically cut, the Bush tax cuts are history and spending is cut. In one way the Republicans get what they want but in another way they don’t. The rich dudes who pay them are going to be pissed about the tax cuts expiring and DOD spending less for the toys their companies make. A lot of the defense contractors are in conservative led districts and jobs will be lost with the defense cuts, another way they will be made to look bad. Let the automatic cuts happen and then the Democrats will have a chance to hit the Republicans hard in their own back yard.
After the automatic cuts happen the Democrats can introduce spending bills that return some of the defense spending (and save defense jobs in conservative districts, making the Republicans there look bad while the Democrats look good) and a new temporary payroll tax cut for workers to stimulate spending. Both issues would appeal to a large segment of the population, make the Democrats look good and Obama would be seen as a very skillful leader who outmaneuvered the Republicans and solved a big problem.
In the end, spending would be reduced since the CEOs will not be getting much in payroll tax cuts (very good and will piss them off) and defense spending would be lower. I have no idea if it will work out this way but it is a possibility, one of many of course.
It’s going to be interesting to see how this all unfolds, especially in light all that is OWS.
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
They don’t take effect until 2013, so what happens next it depends on the elections results (since I doubt they can reach a deal next year).
Hold up, stop the truck. He ONLY campaigned on ending them for the wealthy.
@Mnemosyne: Turns out, it was all kabuki theater, but not the play the Republicans thought they were acting in. Now certain people are scrambling around trying to figure out a way that this was Democratic FAIL because, after all, our team can’t actually win.
This. It is beginning to drive me nuts. The President pretty much smacks the Republicans around every time and there are so-called Democrats screaming “you didn’t do it right! you didn’t do it right!” EVERY TIME. What the hell is wrong with this party?
Well, if you trust polls, not much. Most Democrats support the President. I don’t think the mainstream press or the Internet reflect the rank and file very well.
And, honestly, for all the “Dems divided” stories we hear, Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have worked remarkably well together in a lot of difficult situations.
@Baud: I know, I know. Ooooom, oooooom, ooom mani padme oouuuuummmm. There. That’s better. I think I meant what’s wrong with some Democrats that you usually meet on the Internet where everything is magnified a million fold.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Thanks for that info! I wasn’t aware of the exact cut date the ‘bomb’ would drop, just that it would. In light of that info I would still say let the automatic cuts happen and let it play out the same way. Looming cuts are just as good to work with, especially just before a presidential election with a larger voting block heading to the polls.
Even OWS icon/superstar Robert Reich hailed Obama for his “tactical brilliance” on this issue.
I guess I just skip your future posts. Obama derangement syndrome posts are so 2007.
Right, but they all sunset if nothing gets done. Obama will surely push for extending them for everyone else though, which is fine, except that it means the yahoos in Congress will get a chance to shit in the punch bowl.
@Jenny: Where is that link?
As was explained to me here a week or so ago, there ARE certain tax things that MUST be altered, or lots of bad effects. Examples – writing off bad homes, the medicare doctor fix, the Alternative tax fix.
So, there are two worries. That the Rethugs play a game of chicken with those issues, in order to get their priorities, or else NONE of these issues get fixed.
And then, a more palatable deal that the (joke) offered so far by the Rethugs, but one that still doesn’t deal in tax code with income inequality.
Gotta love Grover, Satan’s own con-man. How did this long time buddy of scammers Ralph Reed and Jack Abramoff hypnotize the GOP into signing away their souls to him? In blood, even.
Just google “norquist reed abramoff” for a quick tour of his sordid past.
Maybe someday we will learn who he is really working for, since he surely doesn’t come cheap.
You know “pwned”? I’m impressed.
Bipartisan cover? maybe I’m confused about the meaning of the term but the Democrats including Obama need to pass jobs bill. If they could get it with only Dem votes they would do it. They aren’t looking for cover they are just looking for votes to get it passed. period.
You’re surprised? Obama’s been kicking the GOP’s arse basically all of his presidency, but the whiners on the Left are never satisfied.
Obama wanted this stupid super comm. to work so badly that he actually left the country for 10 days right before it expired. He truly wanted to gut socsec & medicare & insert your favorite program here >>> He will gut it!
Paul in KY
@Turgidson: Hope you are right about that.
I think you’re trying to praise former Speaker Pelosi but became confused and misdirected praise meant for her to the unworthy.
ARRA = Republican/conservative think-tank invented health care
Extension of Bush/GOP tax cuts = self-explanatory
Expansion of gun “rights” = also self-explanatory
Executive Order 13531 = Obama’s order creating 1st Deficit Commission (the Al & Erskie show) upon with the 2nd Deficit Committee was based.
Radical expansion Unitary Executive prerogatives including international and domestic spying, extra-legal detention and assassinations well beyond the law’s most plastic limits – and even the Bush/Cheney regime’s wildest dreams = again, self-explanatory.
Foolhardy and conservative (an axiomatic pairing) misfire when arguing for and proposing economic stimulus his own econ team called too little and too tax cut heavy = a GOP win by forfeit and nation’s loss.
Continued advocacy for and demonetization of critics of the “banks settlement” negotiations = siding with the GOP and banksters against the 99%.
Exactly 0 (zero) DoJ actions holding banksters and their ilk liable for the economic ruin they created, illegally I might add = again, Obama siding with his most reliable and important donor class ahead of the interests of the 99%, the rule of law and the centuries old body of law behind property ownership, deeds and titles.
Absolute failure to fill critical Executive branch and Federal judicial vacancies = Daily outcomes that “prove” the GOP’s rhetoric that government is ineffective and wasteful while also leaving vital agencies’ functions stewardless, making them ripe for a wholesale overstocking when Obama loses next Nov.
BP = a win for big biz and oil companies specifically all while affirmatively infuriating Gulf Coast residents who are still being screwed economically, in terms of restitution, in terms of near & long term health, and on and on.
I’ll stop here, ending what is merely a short list.