Pakistan is pretty pissed off right now as a NATO gunship assault on a border checkpoint near Afghanistan has resulted in at least 26 dead Pakistani soldiers so far.
Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has called an emergency meeting of military services chiefs to formulate his country’s response, his spokesman said. The Defense Committee of the Cabinet will meet later Saturday.
In a statement, Gilani said he “strongly condemned the NATO/ISAF attack on the Pakistani” checkpoint.
The matter is being taken up by the Foreign Ministry “in the strongest possible terms” with NATO and the United States, the statement from his office said.
NATO’s commander in Afghanistan said he is committed to a thorough investigation.
Yeah, this isn’t good in any way. Pakistan has already closed supply routes for NATO convoys through the country and that’s just for starters, all this happening less than 48 hours or so after another NATO airstrike supposedly killed seven civilians in Afghanistan. It looks like NATO troops were performing a cross-border raid from Afghanistan, chasing insurgents into Pakistan when the incident took place. Pakistan’s military is calling this an “unprovoked attack” on Pakistan’s “sovereignty” and at this point it’s still unclear just exactly what happened. It’s hard to imagine things getting too much worse:
“I think we should go to the United Nations Security Council against this,” said retired Brigadier Mahmood Shah, former chief of security in the tribal areas. “So far, Pakistan is being blamed for all that is happening in Afghanistan, and Pakistan’s point of view has not been shown in the international media.”
Other analysts, including Rustam Shah Mohmand, a former ambassador to Afghanistan, said Pakistan would protest and close the supply lines for some time, but that ultimately “things will get back to normal.”
Paul Beaver, a British security analyst, said relations were so bad that this incident might have no noticeable impact.
“I’m not sure U.S.-Pakistan relations could sink much lower than they are now,” he said.
President Obama’s foreign policy has been excellent so far, but this is going to require some kid gloves. We’ll see what the State Department has to say in response.
Samara Morgan
Looks like maybe we won’t need the Garani Massacre video to GTFO A-stan after all.
Coming soon to an Islamic capital near you– Operation Frequent Wind Redux.
Now THAT will cut the black budget.
In the battle for hearts and minds, America just got its big fat white judeochristian ass handed to it.
LOL.
Knockabout
Shorter Zandar: “Wow guys this is bad!”
Such trenchant insight into the situation as it continues to unfold. Not only should you stay away from science and technology as posting subjects, clearly you should add foreign policy to your list of proscribed topics.
Really, we’re not asking you any more to stick to something you can handle, like open threads and totally inappropriate topic puns, we’re telling you.
Your poseur hipster intellectual act is beginning to grate on the community.
Knockabout
Somebody up this morning want to try to salvage this place with a relatively timely open thread?
lawguy
“President Obama’s foreign policy has been exelcent so far[?}” Are you planning on going into humor full time?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Knockabout: “Your poseur hipster intellectual act is beginning to grate on the community.”
Since I’ve never seen your nym here in the past six plus years, I’m going to guess that you’re not much into posting here…lol
IOW, ignore the turd.
bin Lurkin'
Haven’t these Pakistani morons ever heard of friendly fire?
Evidently omelettes are not part of Pakistani cuisine.
Knockabout
No, he clearly believes Obama’s foreign policy hasn’t been a complete clusterfuck. Try reading his blog sometime, he can’t be older than 24 and still hasn’t grasped the concept of how to write about things he has no idea about but he posts on them anyway.
It’s a fascinating exercise in self-aggrandizing egotism.
jo6pac
@lawguy:
My thought also.
Knockabout
Here’s a hint, son. Wait until somebody qualified to comment on this mess does so and then try to pass off the opinion as your own. You know, your usual modus operandi.
Knockabout
Seriously, I’m starting to feel really bad for Zandar here. Open thread please.
Scuffletuffle
@bin Lurkin’: Win!
salacious crumb
when the terrorists run towards the border Af-Pak border, and the Americans are chasing them, who do you think is shooting back at the Americans? its not the militants, its the Pakistanis.
But we need to stop fucking accidentally bombing civilians in Afghan.
Samara Morgan
@Knockabout: it is bad, retardo.
When America/NATO starts slaughtering her “allies” by “accident” its very, very bad.
Particularily when those allies have approx one hundred nukes.
ornery
Thanks for the information, Zandar … you’re doing fine.
Knockabout was drawn to comment here by the recent flame-war-triggering post by ABL. Kind of like a fly to carrion, that’s all it is.
Citizen_X
Hey Stalkabout: got anything to add, then, besides your own creepy obsessions? Stop making the conversation about “Zandar,” i.e. you.
Samara Morgan
@Knockabout: dude.
O is jus’ trying to stave off non-linear system collapse.
the guy is the best we got.
BattleCat
15 replies, 5 by Knockabout?
You going for the gold or something?
Samara Morgan
@bin Lurkin’: omelettes are haram. because its its inhumane slaughter.
Linda Featheringill
Wow, Zander. You certainly woke up some grumpy hornets here.
My personal opinion is that we should come home from Afghanistan and let those folks alone. We’ve done a good job with Al Qaeda. Declare victory and come home.
The folks who govern Pakistan have an inflated opinion of their own abilities and will undoubtedly be overrun by Taliban shortly after we leave.
I am sorry about the civilian losses though. One more argument against war. Gotta be a better way.
Amir Khalid
@Knockabout:
Ooh, a heckler!
@Zandar:
This does indeed sound bad. A military cock-up that kills 26 soldiers of an allied nation is no minor oopsie. Things actually could get worse, of course: Pakistan might decide that it’s no longer worth worth allying with NATO, if it can’t trust NATO not to kill its doodz.
Short of that, the investigation on Pakistan’s side might result in a recommendation of severe permanent restrictions on NATO’s authority to operate on Pakistani soil, making its Afghanistan mission needlessly difficult. And if NATO is indeed to blame for recklessness or incompetence resulting in these deaths, then it will be very hard to appeal against such an action by Pakistan.
Samara Morgan
@BattleCat: go back to Eternia, Cringer.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: 28 soldiers, mufassir maftoon.
Josie
@Knockabout: I am a bit confused about your attempt to speak for “the community” and demand a open thread, as I don’t remember seeing you post as a regular here. Zandar posted new information on a site that many of us use for news gathering, and I appreciate his timeliness. Having commented here infrequently for around two years, I would consider myself actually one of the community.
Samara Morgan
@Linda Featheringill: yes, cudlipesse.
Overrun by the talibs.
The talibs are going to dip Karzais head in tar and pike it on the battlements.
After the Arab Spring….the American Fall……and after that?
winter is coming.
gnomedad
Trolling requires patience. It’s Saturday morning, yo. Sure, the whole game is “hey, pay attention to me”, but you need to be a little bit subtle.
Napoleon
@Knockabout:
Someone get the turd out of the punchbowl.
arguingwithsignposts
Regular troll festival this fine morn.
Samara Morgan
@gnomedad: no its not.
winter is coming.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Currently more trolls than not. Wow. I didn’t know most of them got up this early.
It sucks that the civilians died, but the only time these people are Pakistanis is when they get killed; otherwise they don’t even want to be associated with the government. If the Pakistani government had enough control of this border to keep the Afghani’s out, there wouldn’t be nearly as much need to keep going near the border from the Afghan side. It’s not like we killed a lot of Iranians.
I think it will be interesting to see what Pakistan says when we finally leave Afghanistan. They last thing they want are Taliban, who enjoy much better support in the border region, to have free access to Pakistan and the countries nukes.
amk
Don’t know wtf happened to my earlier comment.
It’s high time that obama asked nato/pakis/afghans to take a hike and started pulling in US troops / drone shite from this afghan mess. One 9/11 isn’t worth getting your panties in a bunch even after a fucking decade.
Soonergrunt
@Linda Featheringill:
I’m not particularly thrilled with the idea that Pakistan’s nukes–however many operational units there are–falling into the hands of the LeT or the JeM. Neither is our government, nor frankly, the more moderate elements of the Pakistani government.
They will close the border for a couple of weeks. Then they’ll reopen the border just in time to avoid a major logistical issue for NATO. There will be a lot of loud pronouncements about Pakistani sovereignty (which is pretty ironic, actually) and demands for their own drones, accompanied by continued under the table intelligence sharing and requests for drone strikes. At some point in the next few weeks, a shipment of new engines for the Chinook helicopters we gave them a couple of years ago will make their way to a Pakistani port.
They need us as much as they dislike us, and they know this, just as they know that we need them as much as we distrust them.
It’s a fucking mess, but frenemy relationships always are.
Soonergrunt
@amk: It’s not in moderation.
Villago Delenda Est
Geeze, this entire mess is nothing but Charlie Foxtrot, cubed.
What Linda said. Declare victory, GTF out, and leave these people alone to savage each other over minor disputes of superstition as they’ve been doing for centuries. It’s not like the Pakistanis have a sterling record of competence…I think the early 70’s demonstrated that quite nicely.
“Knockabout” seems to be Zandar’s personal stalker here. Just set phasers to “ignore” and continue on your way.
Samara Morgan
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
untrue, retardo.
The Taliban (dedobandi sufi) built madrassas to repell the British Raj.
The “last thing” they want is xian missionaries.
THE
@Samara Morgan:
I wouldn’t be too sure of that if I were you.
You are assuming that Pakistan will be allowed to dominate Afghanistan again, through its Taliban proxy.
My position is much more: Wait and see.
The world in 2014 is not what it was in 1996.
USA and even Pakistan, are no longer the only players in this game.
Amir Khalid
@Linda Featheringill:
The Taliban are not al-Qa’ida. The former have no agenda outside Afghanistan that I’m aware of, so I don’t think there’s much chance of them overrunning Pakistan. Plus, the Pakistani military, in particular ISI i.e. military intelligence, is a longtime supporter of the Taliban (a bone of contention between Pakistan and the US, itself a former ally of the Taliban).
Amir Khalid
A point of decorum:
“Paki” is an ethnic slur. I would ask my fellow Juicers to avoid using the term when discussing Pakistan.
henqiguai
@Odie Hugh Manatee (#5):
It’s (knockedabout) relatively new; at least, I’ve only just started seeing the nym recently. Full out troll, and even less bright than usual. And yes, imminently ignorable.
Samara Morgan
@Soonergrunt: yup, the Paki elites wanna keep on the sukk off of the anti-terrorism tit. but the CITIZENS ainted gonna let them. And the Paks are buyin’l their armament from CHINA.
You are an Amerikka-fuckk-yeah bot.
Game over, dude.
The internet and social media have raped your ass.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: so is maftoon an ethic slur.
stand and defend yourself, brother.
henqiguai
@salacious crumb (#12):
Yep, this was my first thought as well. In a running gunfight, shots, regardless of origin, are returned.
arguingwithsignposts
@henqiguai: Knockabout is, iirc, Derp under cover of a different nym. Or another one of the banished.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
Your GBCW statement wasn’t operative for very long. You just can’t quit this place, can you?
ETA: If you really considered me a brother, you wouldn’t be calling me that.
El Tiburon
@lawguy:
+1
Unless you consider George W. Bush your foreign policy marker, Obama has been atrocious on foreign policy. Wait, is Balloon Juice now An Onion rip-off? Cough cough (soonergrunt) cough cough.
amk
@Amir Khalid: You’re right. I apologize. More due to laziness than intentional.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: well you never know, mufassir maftoon.
i can apparate at any time.
that should keep you honest.
but it prolly wont.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@henqiguai:
Yeah, like the rest of our lame trolls, it’s just another turd in the Ming vase. ;)
Samara Morgan
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Ming vase?
LOL.it is to laff.
its a walmart special vase……just for black friday.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: why?
you can be my brother AND a a maftoon.
Aziz is.
gogol's wife
@Amir Khalid:
My condolences.
Samara Morgan
@gogol’s wife: he is a maftoon.
he tells you what you want to hear about al-Islam.
thass ok.
man cannot acquire what he cannot use.
Zagloba
Sure is a lot of pie in this thread.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
Expelliarmus!
henqiguai
Amir, got a question. Reading various postings over time I find myself inadvertently scanning the occasional tokoloco posting, and she’s constantly calling you a “maftoon”. I’ve done a number of searches but only find references to either a fairly popular singer or a well-regarded Urdu editor. Care to enlighten the curious as to the insult in the term? ‘Cause from what I see in my searches, being called Maftoon, either the singer or the editor, is fairly complementary.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: if i give you veritaserum, will you finally speak the truth?
Amir Khalid
@henqiguai:
m_c’s definition is in her comment #51. Yes, I would much rather be thought of as a singer. An editor, not so much. Too many not-so-pleasant memories of my interactions with them.
BattleCat
@henqiguai:
Crazypants explains it in her own words, here:
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/11/12/the-war-against-ourselves/#comment-2874181
“… and that you are a self-acknowledged maftoon, that is, a muslim charmed by western culture.”
BattleCat thinks it is another one of her crazy made-up phrases.
henqiguai
Amir #56
BattleCat #57
Ah, thank you. As I said, my reading of her entries is always inadvertent, so I missed that ‘explanation’. So, to her, being cosmopolitan is somehow undesirable?
Oh, and ThunderCats hooo! I think.
Liberty60
Y’know, times like this make me think we need some radical action, like a new Constitutional Amendment requiring that the President can only lead the nation to war with the approval of the People, via their elected Congress.
Who’s with me?
Amir Khalid
I wonder if m_c’s definition of “maftoon” includes Muslim Westerners, such as m_c. (I am Asian myself.)
Kola Noscopy
Hey, Obot, tell that to all the dead in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan who have bought the farm since January, 2009. In particular, tell that to the families of dead child drone victims, murdered by the U.S. in that time.
I’m sure they’ll be happy to hear it.
Knockabout
Thought: if Zandar didn’t write such obvious tripe, the comments on his post wouldn’t be filled with people slagging him for such worthless drivel.
Amir Khalid
@Knockabout:
There are more commenters on this thread slagging you than there are slagging Zandar.
Peter
@Samara Morgan: No matter how many times you repeat this bizarre platitude, it isn’t going to become true.
delphi_ote
What kind of stalker gives up so fast? Knockabout is obsessed AND lazy.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Samara Morgan: Really, you think the biggest worry the Pakistani government has is missionaries, rather than being overthrown? I don’t even want some of what you’re smoking, but I will contribute to your intervention.
A Humble Lurker
Hey look, the pedophile defender’s back! Now it’s a party!
Kola Noscopy
@A Humble Lurker:
Oh my goodness, and here we have Lurker, humble cheerleader for the anal rape of infant girls.
Glad to see you!
Amir Khalid
@Colonoscopy:
The commenters who called you out for defending child-molesting were able to link to the thread where you did precisely that. Can you do the same with regard to your accusation against A Humble Lurker?
carpeduum
So are you Coles token “all wars should end immediately because of this” bitch now? Ask Armchair General Cole how that worked for him in Libya. I think that was the last time he made one of those childishly simplistic posts of his about war. Guess his coffee mug sales were starting to go down from the backlash.
Kola Noscopy
@Amir Khalid:
You, tool, are incorrect.
You may want to learn the art of reading for the actual meaning and content of words as a group, when used together…not for what you hope or imagine they say.
I specifically addressed myself to the alleged shower incident, in which I posited that to aggressively intervene in what may not have been a physically coercive act AT THE MOMENT, may well have caused the minor FURTHER trauma than to leave and address the situation thru other tactics, as the coach did.
But those of you who imagine yourself to be fearless moral warriors, always with the perfect response at hand while safe behind your keyboards, (and having no direct knowledge of the circumstances) also imagine that my effort to explain how macho posturing, embarrassment, and shaming could have further injured the minor (and I came at this from having been a young gay man myself, but what do I know?) like to feverishly pleasure yourselves with the fantasy that my statements, read in their entirety, amount to a DEFENSE of pedophilia overall, which is absurd.
Toward the end of the very comment you like to masturbate over, I specifically addressed Sandusky’s alleged illness and its dangers.
So…uh, fuck you. As long as commenters here who have no lives insist on throwing vile names at me, I will do likewise.
Kola Noscopy
@carpeduum:
You might be right about that…Cole does like to keep his keyboard warmongers happy here. Which, apparently, means hardly posting at all himself anymore.
BTW, have you “served” in any of the U.S.’s recent, noble and perfect wars of glory for the homeland?
Arm The Homeless
Hey, look, the Sock-puppet Purity Parade has begun, still with exactly 0 Allenby crossing stamps on their passports. Funny, that…
Tell me more about this pie you speak of
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
Oh, I’ll be happy to post the link again so everyone here can see that you are once again lying about what you said.
“Maybe the kid was loving it!” is a defense of pedophilia, not a defense against violently intervening in a sexual assault.
carpeduum
@Kola Noscopy: Btw, are you always in the habit of passively aggressively baiting people so obviously?
Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
Indulge your fantasies, I’ll continue to mock accordingly, douche nozzle.
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
For the curious, here’s the link to Kola’s pervy musings on how 10-year-olds would just love to be molested by adults.
But, yes, clearly we’re the bad people for pointing out that it’s wrong for adults to take advantage of a child’s natural interest in sex and interrupting Kola’s fantasies about his junior high gym teacher.
(Edited for verb agreement.)
Arm The Homeless
@Mnemosyne: But how could someone who loves pie as much as this person does also enjoy the pain and suffering of other human beings? It’s almost as if all their good-natured talk about pie is simply cover for feelings of sociopathy.
AA+ Bonds
Their power to ignore their domestic constituencies, ahem, gets severely diminished when their soldiers die.
By which I mean the Pakistani government has one major domestic constituency, and it’s the Pakistani military
Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
First of all I was the eleven year old I was talking about, liar. I was expressing MY feelings at that age and no one else’s, applying that (my) perspective to the alleged situation at hand. Second of all, at no point did I advocate that it was RIGHT for an adult to take advantage; I expressed what I, as a child, was feeling and how that should be taken into account when a third party intervenes. And of course, you and your piggish compatriots are attempting to SHAME me into silence for speaking openly and honestly.
And thirdly, it was my basketball coach, but to know that would require careful reading, which you don’t do.
God forbid we attempt to understand a touchy subject and look at it critically from all sides; much better to react hysterically, shame and moralize, thus intimidating with our overreaction even MORE victims into silence. Yes, that would be best.
Plus, that approach has the added bonus of making you feel superior at the same time it tickles your loins…
AA+ Bonds
I also see that Kola is still just rippin the place up w/ his Sandusky troll, gj Kola, your product sells itself
Kola Noscopy
@Arm The Homeless:
Why are you delicate flower pie people always so desperate to let others know that you have allegedly “pied” another commenter? Insecure much?
carpeduum
@Kola Noscopy: I get a laugh out of these “delicate flower pie people” as well.
Will never understand their need to announce their blocking activity….real or not.
Kola Noscopy
@Knockabout:
Wow. Oh my god. Just who the fuck is it that you imagine yourself to be? Just…totally fuck yourself raw, asshole.
What kind of losers actually consider a blog comments section a freaking “community?” Real people in meat space: That’s community.
Yutsano
@Kola Noscopy:
So the third party should take into consideration the unknowable sexual desires of a minor WHILE WITNESSING A CRIME?? What fucking logic is this? You just want a justification to sexualize children. Period.
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
In that specific comment, no. It was your earlier comment that we were getting all worked up about mere “cross-generational diddling” when there are more important things to worry about that first made me ask you when you expected your NAMBLA card to arrive. You were also the first and only one to insist that adults having sex with children is defensible “gay sex” that we were all being close-minded about.
You don’t even remember how many times you defended pedophilia as no big deal in that thread, do you?
Arm The Homeless
@carpeduum: Ah, yes, pie for everyone. Better make mine a double.
Kola Noscopy
@Samara Morgan:
Samara, why are you advocating for pedophilia, and in a homophobic way, at that?
Amir Khalid
@Kola Noscopy:
Even if we were to accept your argument on its face, there is no getting around the fact that what Mike McQueary saw in that shower was a crime in progress. Sex with an under-aged child is always rape, because the child is not considered competent to give consent to sex. And this presumption exists in law to protect children, from being manipulated into sex by adults. So your argument that interrupting the sex might have traumatized the child is bullshit.
As for your denial of what you said, Mnemosyne has linked to the comment so that everyone can see that you are a liar.
AxelFoley
@El Tiburon:
LOL, the stupid shit that stupid people say.
Yeah, ask bin Laden, Mubarak, Quiddafy, and a whole shitload of others about that.
Kola Noscopy
@Yutsano:
Read what I wrote, moran. The third party should take into account the situation as best he or she can gather it to be, with an eye toward not causing additional harm.
According to the coach, there were no screams, no struggle, no violence; so it is POSSIBLE that in the moment the minor was a willing participant. My comment was entirely based on that supposition.
Do you posit that that your need to rush in THAT VERY SECOND and violently separate the parties, further embarrassing, traumatizing, humiliating, and shaming the minor, is more important than the kid’s mental health? In that situation, as I framed it as a possibility, would it not be better to leave the scene and deal with it in a far less melodramatic but humane way, as the coach claims he did?
Frankly, I do NOT believe that had the minor been struggling/screaming/resisting/crying, that the coach would have left so promptly. BUT the human mind/soul is a universe of contradictions, and a grand jury report is NOT a final finding of fact, though you like to pretend otherwise.
And why are you unable to even discuss this topic free of name calling and hysteria? What are your stakes that you have yet not revealed? Or are you just a self righteous know it all?
AxelFoley
@Yutsano:
Ah, so Kola approves of the sexual molestation of children? Thanks for the heads up.
eemom
This thread has got to set some kind of record. No, several records. It features (1) instant descent into trollery, with nary a single substantive comment, (2) a record number of hitherto unseen trolls, with regular trolls also present and accounted for, (3) whiplash-inducing scene-shifts from the bloody mountains of Pakistan to the PSU locker room….
Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
Links and context, please. Thanks.
Kola Noscopy
@Amir Khalid:
Going full on dipshit, digging ever deeper, eh? If you just keep repeating it, maybe it will be true.
Yutsano
@Kola Noscopy:
This. Is. Not. Possible. Your willingness to not acknowledge that a child cannot give consent EVER is your blindness. And you indulging your own fantasies. You’re not offering a defense, you’re justifying your own feelings.
You really need help here.
PS: Sorry, but you need to take this shit somewhere else. Maybe the NAMBLA blog. You need a fucking time-out again pedo.
ABL
@Kola Noscopy: Yes. PLEASE take it somewhere else.
Time out (again). Cole has been notified (again.)
Arm The Homeless
@ABL: That’s too bad, it was just telling me a joke about crusty pies.
Yutsano
@ABL: Thank you.
@Arm The Homeless: I don’t know whether to LOL or ewww.
licensed to kill time
This new phrase of four_loko_chan cracked me up because it so perfectly describes most of her comments. But it is also why I don’t have her pie’d because she comes up with some clever neologisms from time to time.
The rest of this thread is groaning under the weight of all the pie.
Arm The Homeless
@Yutsano: Why not both?
@licensed to kill time: Yeah, loko, stays off the pie-filter if for no other reason than I yearn for moar cudlipishness. I think it’s what they speak in Cud-lipa-lipa-lipa-stan.
Samara Morgan
@Soonergrunt: Amerikkka-Fuck-Yeah bot.
They are burning American flags in Islamabad every day.
Two suicide commandos hit the American Embassy in Kabul while we still have 90k troops there.
No more business as usual for YOU, Big White American Bwana.
we are going home with our tails tucked and with NOTHING to show for our 14 trillion taxpayer dollahs and seven thousand dead.
gogol's wife
@eemom:
Yes, it’s breathtaking. I keep coming back in horrified fascination.
licensed to kill time
@Arm The Homeless:
Heh.
Samara em de la chan, you TOO are Big White American Bwana, whether you like it or not.
Yutsano
@licensed to kill time: PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE SPOILED RICH WHITE GIRL BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!
Cain
@Amir Khalid:
I believe it is a slur in England. It doesn’t exist in the U.S. And frankly, I’m not sure how I’m supposed to be offended by “Paki”. It has no history with me.
On the other hand, delivery would probably communicate that it was an insult… I would probably react to that. But the word itself means nothing to me.
Mnemosyne
D’oh! I tried to post a reply to KC, but I think it got eated by the banmonster.
Oh well. Everyone can go see what he said with the link I gave.
licensed to kill time
@Yutsano: I should concentrate on the Great and Powerful Chan-Oz?
hahahaha ;)
licensed to kill time
@Soonergrunt said:
Just wanted to quote this again because I think this is exactly what will happen. This dance has been going on for a long time, and both sides know how to play it for their own benefit.
Amir Khalid
@Cain:
Fair enough, it’s not so common in America. But a lot of people find ethnic slurs objectionable in principle. I reckon they would not care to be the first to use such a term in their milieu, even if the Pakistani-Americans they knew were not familiar enough with the slur to take offense.
El Tiburon
@AxelFoley:
So to you a successful foreign policy is linked to who we kill? What a Moran. Killing OBL did what again? And what did Obama have to do with the overthrow of Mubarak? He was tossed out in spite of the what the US wanted.
To use your metric, Bush was a genius because he “got” and killed Hussein.
Idiot.
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time: I think it’s what they speak in Cud-lipa-lipa-lipa-stan.
Nah. its what they speak in Distributed Jesusland. aka the United States of Amerikkka.
And the the times they are a changing. No egyption could have shown a Murrican made tear gas cannister under Mubarak. Amerikkka cant bully and bribe away the Arab Spring.
Mnemosyne
@El Tiburon:
Yes, that’s why Obama was making speeches about how Mubarak had to go while the US State Department was pressuring Mubarak to step down. It was all because Obama secretly wanted Mubarak to stay.
I’m so glad you have us here to tell us what Obama really meant when he said he wanted Mubarak to step down, because otherwise we would foolishly have thought he actually wanted Mubarak to step down. Now we know it was all part of Obama’s evil plot to keep Mubarak in power that was somehow foiled by … sorry, I forget, who managed to foil Obama’s plot to keep Mubarak in office, again? I always lose track when you get to that part.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: is maftoon an ethnic slur?
in YOUR opinion.
Samara Morgan
@Mnemosyne: yet Obama hasnt cut off funding to SCAF. that is what the current protests are about.
General Stuck
Excellent post Zandar! couldn’t agree more.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
I never suggested it was an ethnic slur. And as you define it, it doesn’t seem to be one.
Samara Morgan
@Cain: its like chav. no meaning in america, but a loaded label in britian.
Maftoon Khalid is just trying to slur me as a racist somehow.
its SOP for the juicitariat.
Samara Morgan
@licensed to kill time: not so true any more.
China is wooing Pakistan, and Pakistan is trying to sue the US in the International Court for droning Pakistani citizens.
Samara Morgan
@henqiguai: in arabic maftoon means “charmed”. in context it means a muslim “charmed” by western culture.
Like an uncle tom to blacks or a gunga to browns.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
You have a very active imagination.
Mnemosyne
@Samara Morgan:
… says the rich American white girl convert.
You really have no idea how ridiculous you look when you try to insist that you’re a better Muslim than Amir is, do you? You sound like Newt Gingrich telling me that he knows Catholicism better — after all, he just converted last year, so he’s totally a better Catholic than the rest of us who merely grew up as Catholics.
MJ
@Cain: The term “Paki” has long been considered a racial/ethnic slur in both Canada domestically & in the UK. Since BJ is a blog w/ an international audience, I think it’s completely appropriate for us to honor Amir’s request for us to refrain from using it here going forward. Agree?
Knockabout
My, this has gotten way out of hand.
henqiguai
@Samara Morgan (#120):
El Tiburon
@Mnemosyne:
Did you just fall off the turnip truck you hayseed? You are willing to take Obama’s words when it was then clear Mubarak was on his way out? So you now believe Obama really wanted one of our puppets out of power?
Mnemosyne Alert: Obama to denounce House of Saud and now welcomes the hatred of the financial industry.
Putz.
El Tiburon
http://www.salon.com/2011/02/08/suleiman/
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/13/gop_and_tp_on_obamas_foreign_policy_successes/
Fucking iPad these links are formprior reply
El Tiburon
@Mnemosyne:
Also, are you drunk? Did you even read the article you linked? At no point does Obama demand Mubarak step down, but a much watered down “transfer of power”. In other words: we still want the same people in power – not a true call to people-driven democracy.
I ask again: do you really think Obama wanted the Mubarak (US and Israel puppets) out of power?
I emphasize again: putz.
Samara Morgan
@Mnemosyne: Khalid has ADMITTED he is charmed by western culture.
He himself says he is a maftoon.
I’m not saying im a “better” muslim than the mufassir maftoon.
But he apparently denies the First Pillar and doesnt read the Generous Quran.
/shrug
and Obama is still funding SCAF to keep a lid on the ferocious hatred of Israel and the Copts that Mubarak suppressed all these years, and to keep the MB out.
Aid to Egypt hasnt missed a beat, dumbass. We are just bribing SCAF instead of Mubarak now.
Samara Morgan
@henqiguai: WTF are you talking about?
Khalid is an ethnic Malay. And a muslim.
Perhaps house negro is a better comparison. Khalid is the ballon juice house muslim, because he tells you what you want to hear about Islam.
None of which happens to be true, but chacun a son gout.
;)
Samara Morgan
@Mnemosyne: And now SCAF is killing students and busting heads and jailing dissidents instead of Hosni’s regime doing that shit.
Likely the exact same military police that worked for Mubarak are cracking skulls and tear gassing protestors in Tahir square.
With American teargas.
We should send SCAF some pepper spray!
Samara Morgan
@MJ: i mostly say Pak or the Paks. Like i say talibs for the taliban. that amuses me because talib means student in pashtun.
I dont say Paki or Pakis i think.
But if i did its just shorthand. But Khalid and suzanne and some of the BJ moral scolds get all butt hurt about this shit.
i’ll be careful to say Paks from now on. kk?
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: umm….the Taliban have a political party in Pak.
google Terik-e-Taliban.
step away from the crack pipe Khalid.
as soon as America GTFOs A-stan AfPak will become a virtual nation.
and the talibs will roll into Kabul an dip Karzais head in tar and pike it on roof the ex-American embassy building.
mclaren
Zandar:
Are you drunk? Or are you wacked out on hard drugs?
Doubling down on a pointless endless war in Afghanistan is “excellent”? Persisting in dragging out the Iraq occupation for no reason, pissing away 20 million dollars a day for nothing is “excellent”?
Murdering innocent women and children with drones until all of Pakistan is rioting and in flames is “excellent”?
Seriously. WTF is wrong with you?
Super face palm — when a regular face palm won’t do.
Barack Obama’s foreign policy in a single picture.
Samara Morgan
ALL:
and Obama is still funding SCAF to keep a lid on the ferocious hatred of Israel and the Copts that Mubarak suppressed all these years, and to keep the MB out.
do you know WHY Obama is doing that, O Juicers?
Because Obama and Panetta are pretty darn worried that Our Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Israel is going to launch on Iran…and drag the US into WWIII while she still can.
Judas Escargot
@Samara Morgan:
Wait. Aren’t you a rich white girl from CO who owns horses and foxhunts?
So WTF are you? Patty Hearst with broadband?
THE
I have a real problem with the whole idea of maftoon.
Because to me Islam is 100% Western.
i.e. Like Christianity it derives from a combination of sources going back to Athens and Jerusalem.
I think the real difference which Samara is confusing, is between the rational-secular tradition deriving from Greece and the religious-legalistic tradition deriving from Jerusalem.
So you find rationalistic secular Christians, i.e. liberal Christians. And you find literalistic-legalistic Christians like in the Middle Ages or current Christian fundamentalists. Likewise in Islam.
The spectrum of opinion in Islam pretty much maps that in Christendom except that Christianity has become somewhat more secular since the Enlightenment and the Reformation really took hold. Islam has recently seen a drift back to more religious literalism and legalism.
But my point is that both tendencies exist in both religions and always have. This reflects their dual roots in the Classical West.
Knockabout
So half this thread is now “How can Zandar actually be this fucking wrong” which should not come as a surprise to anyone who has spent fifteen minutes perusing his insipid blog, and the other half is the acceptable connotations of the word “maftoon”.
Is this what Cole meant by Zandar being “interesting”?
Samara Morgan
…
Samara Morgan
@Judas Escargot: i could be a purple space alien that foxhunts and owns a horse and i would still BE RIGHT.
tolejaso tolejaso tolejaso
is your class envy showing, Judas?
I WAS RIGHT IWAS RIGHT I WAS RIGHT
hahahaha!
Samara Morgan
@Judas Escargot: we just arent that into Israel anymore.
The demographic timer is gunna fuck that up.
Blacks, browns and youth don’t give a shit about the holocaust.
Only the greys do.
Samara Morgan
@THE: im not confusing anything.
The Quran forbids proselytizing the poor and ignorant. Khalid says it doesnt.
Islam is DIFFERENT from xianity.
THE
They are different religions. But the difference is not that one is Western and the other isn’t.
THE
I doubt that medieval Christianity would have tolerated the teaching of heretical beliefs either.
e.g It waged a Crusade against the Albigensian Heresy.
bob h
My understanding is that there has been Pakistani shelling of American outposts for some time now.
Does Pakistan really want to take this to the UN where its support of terrorist groups might come under scrutiny?