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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / And Iran

And Iran

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Heard a lot of reports of explosions in Iran the past few weeks, and I remember reading Iran threatening to send thousands of missiles into Israel if attacked, and now this:

Iranian protesters screaming “death to England!” stormed the vast British embassy compound and a diplomatic residence in Tehran on Tuesday, tore down the British flag, smashed windows and ransacked the offices in what appeared to be an officially sanctioned protest of Britain’s particularly tough economic sanctions against Iran over its suspect nuclear energy program.

The assault, reported by Iranian news services and broadcast on Iranian television, was the most serious breach between Britain and Iran in more than 20 years, and the images evoked memories of the siege of the American Embassy following the Iranian revolution of 1979.

Britain’s Foreign Secretary, William Hague, expressed outrage over the mayhem, said Britain held Iran’s government responsible and promised “other, further and serious consequences.”

Mr. Hague said in a statement that both British compounds had been stormed by “several hundred people, putting the safety of our diplomats and their families at risk and causing extensive damage to our property.” All British staff were accounted for, he said, without making direct reference to Iranian news agency reports that six had been briefly held hostage, but the status of some local staff remained unclear.

Why the British? And does anyone have a firm grasp as to what is going on over there? I’m really not in the mood for World War III and another oil shock.

Also, who will be the first wingnut to blame this on Obama? My money is on someone from the Weekly Standard or Jennifer Rubin.

Reader Interactions

151Comments

  1. 1.

    Soonergrunt

    Why the British?
    The British have been leading voices in the movement to increase economic sanctions against the Iranian regime, and have increased sanctions on their own without waiting for the UN. There’s the whole “the British are the Americans’ puppet” meme to count for as well. Had the US an embassy in Tehran, I’m pretty sure that we’d be reading about that one being attacked instead.
    Using a crowd of people in civilian clothes gives a little coverage to the Iranian regime. Not much, but just enough.
    Oh, and it’s either Jennifer Rubin or Pam Gellar.

  3. 3.

    Hawes

    If there’s one group of westerners the Iranians hate more than the US, it’s the Brits. We only did Operation Ajax at their request, in order to free up oil rights for BP. The British were bigfooting around those parts long before we were.

    Also, there might be some domestic political issues at play. There are rumors that Khamenei is planning on major constitutional changes, namely moving from a presidential system to a parliamentary one. (Apparently Senator Mitch McDinehad had stymied all legislation in the Majles.) This would also pull the rug out from under Ahmadinejad.

    It is always helpful to divert the attention of the people when you are fundamentally rewriting the rules of their government.

  4. 4.

    Calouste

    Why the British?

    They occupied the country by force during WWI and WWII, and via Anglo-Persian (now BP) the rest of the time between 1918 and 1953. I doubt they are very popular there.

  5. 5.

    Quaker in a Basement

    My money is on someone from the Weekly Standard or Jennifer Rubin.

    While you’re at it, why not bet $20 on increasing darkness after sunset tonight?

  7. 7.

    AA+ Bonds

    From VoA, top Google result for “britain iran”:

    Last week, Britain cut business transactions with all banks in Iran, including Iran’s Central Bank, as part of coordinated sanctions with the US and Canada

    Iranian government’s response:

    Iran’s constitutional watchdog has ratified a bill that reduces diplomatic relations with Britain following London’s support of recently upgraded U.S. sanctions on Tehran.

    Finally, a timeline of Iranian-British relations.

  8. 8.

    Hawes

    Oh, and I’m guessing the wingnut response will be two part.

    One, this only shows WHY we MUST bomb Iran NOW!

    Two, when we fail to do this self-evidently insane thing, Obama will be weak for not starting another land war in Asia.

  10. 10.

    randiego

    The British historically have been the major boogey man for Iran. The US has in the last 35 years become the main focus of their antagonism.

  11. 11.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    Don’t worry the Senate has our back. If things get out of hand they have some legislation moving that provides the military with the tools to protect us from our enemies.

    The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night’s Republican debate. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.

    Don’t you feel better already? If not, this should ease any concerns you might have.

    The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.

  12. 12.

    Punchy

    The protesters were under the mistaken belief they’d find toothpaste and deodorant in the British Embassy.

  13. 13.

    toujoursdan

    They also have a huge, opulent embassy (size of the White House grounds) in very a visible location. The mayor of Tehran named a nearby street “Bobby Sands Street” in honor of a Irish Republican Army hunger striker to show his contempt for them.

  14. 14.

    daveNYC

    You know how we ended up with Andrew Sullivan and that git historian? Well those are the good British exports. The Iranians got the bad ones.

  15. 15.

    The Dangerman

    …I ran so far away, I just ran, I ran all night and day, I couldn’t get away.

    /well, flock it all

    It’ll be interesting to watch greater Wingnuttia react; the last thing they want is a war with Iran before they can start a war with Iran in 2013.

    The embassy thing is interesting, but the reports of explosions are REALLY interesting; after the cyber attack of a couple years ago, one would have thought the Iranians would dial up security to 11. Very curious happenings…

    Edit: Shakes fist at JGabriel at Number 9, Number 9, Number 9…

  16. 16.

    schrodinger's cat

    What do most of the current hotspots in the world have in common? They were a part of the glorious British Empire, with all its killer apps. Iraq, Pakistan, Israel, Territories occupied by Israel and so on and so forth.

  17. 17.

    AA+ Bonds

    I really really really hope that BJ and its readers are doing a better job of keeping up with the Iran story than this thread would indicate because I guarantee you Fox News readers are getting plenty of it

    I mean so far most of the ideas thrown out here have had to do with the context of history, not the real action the UK took against Iran in the last ten days or so

  18. 18.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Punchy:

    Ka Ching

    Not to be pissy but where the hell did the idea that the Brits have bad teeth and don’t bathe come from over here? Believe me I have seen more toothless wonders over here in NC than I ever saw in the UK and I have never heard of the National Dental Association having to set up MASH like free dental clinics in the UK so that people don’t suffer in agony. Then again I live in the real world not memeonopolis.

  19. 19.

    Hawes

    @schrodinger’s cat: Canada?

    I think Britain did better than most imperialistic powers. Better than the French, Belgians or Portuguese did.

    Of course, that’s like winning the least ugly stepchild GOP nominating competition.

  20. 20.

    AA+ Bonds

    I mean, reading this thread, one might almost think that BJers are just as guilty as FoxNews reactionaries of lazily devouring news fed to them by the same source, and to their own detriment as they miss incredibly important stories.

  21. 21.

    Benjamin Franklin

    Thanks, John.

    Quaker…Howdy. Former Semanticleo here.

    Doesn’t this provide the pause that refreshes? You know, that maybe sanctions are working and there’s no need for those 15 ton bunkerbusters?

    Is this a game-changer for bibi?

    Over at Pjammers Ledeen was quick to delete my comment on this. Can’t have no talk that is counter-intuitive to the mindset.

  22. 22.

    Napoleon

    Why the British?

    I recall hearing several times that it is an article of faith in Iran that Britian is completely controlled by the US, or some such.

  24. 24.

    mclaren

    “Why the British?”

    Jeez, get a clue! The Brits were the main players in the overthrow of Mossadegh and the installation of the Shah. As others pointed out, Operation Ajax was the Brits’ baby. If you’ve ever talked to any ex-pat Iranians, you’ll know their main hate is reserved for the British. America comes second in their hate-fest.

  28. 28.

    Comrade Dread

    The Brits were our predecessors in Imperial expansion into the Middle East and helped give them the Shah.

    As someone above said, if there’s one national group that the Iranians have a bigger grudge against than America, it’s England.

  29. 29.

    AA+ Bonds

    Look it’s REALLY GREAT that everyone knows the colonial history of Britain, the history of Ajax, etc. but you also need to read news about foreign relations even if it makes you feel nervous, like all the stories in the last week about the stepped up sanctions against Iran and which countries are involved that everyone somehow missed?

    Because this “oh it’s because They’ve Hated Them For Decades and I have no other idea why” is really fucking condescending to non-Europeans, as though their actions are determined solely by the grudges they hold, it’s maybe a half step removed from “They Hate Us For Our Freedoms”

  30. 30.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    What do most of the current hotspots in the world have in common? They were a part of the glorious British Empire, with all its killer apps. Iraq, Pakistan, Israel, Territories occupied by Israel and so on and so forth.

    Large multi-ethnic empires tend to make a really big mess when they hit the pavement and go splat! (cf the last days of the Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, Tsarist Russia, Imperial China, etc., and what happened afterwards in each case). Unfortunately for we here in the USA the British Empire didn’t collapse and explode like those other empires so much as they leveraged it into too much debt and then starting in 1940 sold it off to their biggest creditor (us) for pennies on the pound, by way of foreclosure. Think of it as the original mortgage-backed security. Those never end well.

  31. 31.

    toujoursdan

    @eemom:

    In Iran in particular or colonies in general? If the latter, Spain and Portugal beat them by a century or two.

    The former British colonies (that weren’t actually invaded and “settled” by European settlers) are spectrum of good and bad. For every success like Botswana, or Belize, or Ghana (or even arguably India), there is failed state like Zimbabwe, Gambia, Pakistan, Solomon Islands or Fiji.

  32. 32.

    EconWatcher

    Economic collapse? Check.

    Rage in the streets? Check.

    Feckless politicians in Europe fiddling while the world burns? Check.

    Yep, seems like we’re about due for a world war.

  33. 33.

    JGabriel

    @toujoursdan:

    The mayor of Tehran named a nearby street “Bobby Sands Street” in honor of a Irish Republican Army hunger striker to show his contempt for them.

    Ha! That’s actually pretty funny.

    .

  34. 34.

    carpeduum

    Ha….Wrong Again Cole starting to dabble in foreign policy again. Doubt he learned anything from his massive fail on Libya. Clearly knows less than nothing about what is going on in Iran.

    Let me fill you in captain doom. Same shit…different decade. You could figure it out if you were capable of learning from history. This stunt is nothing more than state sponsored rioting complete with state sponsored media coverage. Assuming they followed the same formula they would have bused in the agitators from ouside of Tehran where their fanatical supporters live.

  36. 36.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Hawes: Agreed, and they do in general have a good relationship with the countries which were under their rule in the past. But the Empire was not all that wonderful if you were a coolie (affectionate name for their Indian subjects).

  38. 38.

    MattF

    I have some doubt about how much wingnut reaction this will bring. I expect there will be pro forma ‘nuke’em now’ posts here and there, but in fact wingers just don’t care that much about godless Yurp, and Britain has socialized medicine, after all.

    Added: And don’t forget that the actual Tories governing Britain have nothing but contempt for the American right wing.

  41. 41.

    AA+ Bonds

    @eemom:

    Sigh . . . . once again: the Republicans have been on this issue like white on rice, which you’d know if you ever looked at right-wing news sources.

    One of the major problems of the Democrats is that they constantly get caught reacting to Republican narratives about foreign policy because they don’t want to appear soft on defense. Also, I think, because a lot of Democrats are just plain queasy reading about conflict between America and other countries

  42. 42.

    jonas

    Hatin’ on the British has a long pedigree in Iran. Before the US became the mullahs’ bogeyman for its support of the shah during the 79 revolution, Britain (along with Russia) was the imperialist villain in Iranian politics. IIRC, it was prime minister Mossadeq’s attempt to nationalize BP’s assets which sparked the coup that overthrew him — engineered principally by MI6 with the help of the CIA.

  43. 43.

    AA+ Bonds

    Okay I think we’ve established that everyone here has watched the History Channel special on the Iranian Revolution and so we probably don’t need any more posts explaining that Britain Is A Thing That Happened A Long Time Ago

  48. 48.

    Soonergrunt

    @AA+ Bonds:

    like all the stories in the last week about the stepped up sanctions against Iran and which countries are involved that everyone somehow missed?

    Behold:

    The British have been leading voices in the movement to increase economic sanctions against the Iranian regime, and have increased sanctions on their own without waiting for the UN. There’s the whole “the British are the Americans’ puppet” meme to count for as well.

  49. 49.

    Redshift

    @Benjamin Franklin: Hey, Ben, I just wanted to point out (after scanning the last few threads and seeing your repeated complaints that there wasn’t a post on this topic) that the reason you may not see posts on “thinking blogs” about whatever news item has caught your attention is that our people don’t write about something unless they have something useful and informed to say, and that’s a good thing. Though John has chosen to respond here, in general an open thread is just as good a place as a “anybody know anything about this” post to discuss the many news items that don’t get their own post.

    And not to be overly snarky, but the traditional (and appropriate) response to “why aren’t you talking about this?” is “get your own blog!”

  50. 50.

    carpeduum

    @eemom: Ha….clearly you have no clue. Ask Cole and his typing monkeys why my handle changes. Has nothing to do with me. But that is already far too much typing wasted on you. You wouldn’t understand anyways my little groupie.

  53. 53.

    AA+ Bonds

    @carpeduum:

    Waiting around until they realize they need someone on the FP reviewing right-wing news sources, get someone else to do it, and ban me forever

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    @Calouste:

    They occupied the country by force during WWI and WWII, and via Anglo-Persian (now BP) the rest of the time between 1918 and 1953. I doubt they are very popular there.

    Bingo. There are some who believe that mischief in the Middle East only began with the US and the CIA, but British involvement, and its continuing echoes, clearly still rankles many in Iran and other countries.

    By the way, for iPad users, the Operation Ajax app may still be free, soon to be $8. Very interesting stuff.

    Cognito Comics today launched Operation Ajax, a dazzling graphic novel for iPad, in a bid to reinvent storytelling for the digital age. The app is free for a limited time.
    __
    Operation Ajax is a bold retelling of the book “All the Shah’s Men,” which recounts the CIA-led Iranian coup d’etat of 1953, that deposed Mohammad Mossadegh, the elected leader, and ushered in the regime of the brutal Mohammad Reza Shah, who was largely seen to be a puppet of the U.S.

    And yes, the Brits loom large in current events in the region.

  58. 58.

    Soonergrunt

    @AA+ Bonds: why don’t you get right on that, yourself? What’s stopping you? You seem to already spend time in those places. Why don’t you provide us all with a run-down of the things you find?

  59. 59.

    kofu

    It’s the Brits because of the BBC, which served as a point of reference during the uprising a couple of years ago. These are pro-regime squaddies attacking the embassy, the same people who attacked demonstrators, ran them down with motorcycles, etc.

    At the time, the ‘Green’ movement in Iran was trying to boost coverage by foreign media, supplying videos and news of events, which in turn informed everyone in Iran. The BBC was used very deliberately as one of the channels for this effort, and I’m sure that the British embassy and secret services played a role in developments.

  60. 60.

    The Populist

    @carpeduum: Typing monkey? Funny you bring that up, how’s Michelle Malkin and her followers doing?

    The only monkeys I see are the trolls trying to stir shit up. Find a clue bud.

  62. 62.

    Turgidson

    The inevitable blaming of Obama will surely perform the acrobatic act of simultaneously calling him (1) a naive rube who gets worked over by any and all adversaries and can only speak in complete sentences when he has his teleprompter; and (2) a Machiavellian Kenyan anti-colonial America-hating mastermind who is implementing his fiendish plan to impose worldwide Sharia law on an unsuspecting globe.

  63. 63.

    AA+ Bonds

    @Paul in KY:

    A nuclear Iran is inevitable and the US and UK are playing CYA to preserve Israel as their linchpin in the Middle East.

    These anti-embassy actions are likely a combination of genuine popular outrage over sanctions, barely-veiled facilitation by the Iranian government, and yes, they’re occurring in the context of Iranian-British relations since the colonial era. (The reason I’m mocking the idea that this is over Ajax or Mossadegh is because, well, just look at the demographics of Iran right now and imagine how many of the people out there would remember those things personally, vs. the headline news in Iran last week.)

    Partly because of our stubborn refusal to do the hard work necessary to move away from our Israel-first strategy, which isn’t doing us any favors, partly because of how clear it is that nuclear arms mean political clout among AICs, and of course, mostly because of Iran vs. a nuclear-armed Israel, the only thing we can do with sanctions is to make life really fucking hard for most Iranians while their government continues its crash nuke program.

  64. 64.

    The Populist

    @AA+ Bonds: (sigh) Yes, agreed but what is the problem with somebody having that opinion?

    I do think it’s quite obvious the idiots protesting ARE NOT students, they are political beasties, used by the government to make it seem that the people are fed up with British sanctions.

    Problem is even the Iranians know better. The REAL students were beaten, jailed and flushed out during the prior elections.

  65. 65.

    Benjamin Franklin

    Redshift;

    Thanks for the primer. One thing; I complained about righties not wanting to discuss. Not that it matters. And I see you don’t have your own blog.

  66. 66.

    AA+ Bonds

    @The Populist:

    Hey, anyone on my side on the issue is welcome – I hope you’ll continue to evangelize for the cause of being aware of what 50% of America thinks about the world rather than ignoring it as inconvenient

  68. 68.

    AA+ Bonds

    @Soonergrunt:

    1) I usually do in any given thread, when it’s topical,

    2) Eventually they’ll either put me on the FP to do just that or they’ll find someone else to copy my schtick.

    I don’t have to explain to you the fools’ game of starting my own blog, i.e., putting more free content on the web in anyplace where it’s not guaranteed an audience

  69. 69.

    AA+ Bonds

    @The Populist:

    I do think it’s quite obvious the idiots protesting ARE NOT students, they are political beasties, used by the government to make it seem that the people are fed up with British sanctions.

    It’s equally naive to believe that Iranians aren’t pissed at the UK over the sanctions as it is to believe that the anti-embassy actions are free of government influence

  70. 70.

    The Populist

    @AA+ Bonds:

    These anti-embassy actions are likely a combination of genuine popular outrage over sanctions, barely-veiled facilitation by the Iranian government, and yes, they’re occurring in the context of Iranian-British relations since the colonial era. (The reason I’m mocking the idea that this is over Ajax or Mossadegh is because, well, just look at the demographics of Iran right now and imagine how many of the people out there would remember those things personally, vs. the headline news in Iran last week.)

    Half right, the population hates their government as much as we hate them. These thugs are made up to be students to give the government cover for propaganda purposes. The endgame is to embarrass Britain AND drive up oil prices by creating uncertainty.

    I have Iranian friends here in Los Angeles who laugh at this and tell me that their own relatives in the home country know the government is doing this to take create boogeymen for domestic audiences while sending a message to the markets and the USA.

  71. 71.

    boss bitch

    @AA+ Bonds:

    Just fucking post what you’ve been reading. John asked a question so just answer it. No need to be a jerk about everyone else’s answer.

  72. 72.

    The Populist

    @AA+ Bonds: How is that naive? I actually talk to people in the know on this. The people might not love the sanctions BUT they are an educated country who know that the sanctions would go away if Iran tried to work with the world instead of lash out at it.

  73. 73.

    AA+ Bonds

    @The Populist:

    I hate to be a jackass but: while I have no doubt that your expat Los Angeles friends/anecdotes know a lot of people who aren’t mad at the UK over sanctions, I think there are probably a lot of Iranians who are mad at the UK over sanctions

  74. 74.

    Paul in KY

    @AA+ Bonds: Thanks for your analysis, which is credible. Only quibble would be that people in that area of world seem to have long memories. Plus you would have a government that has hammered those old British perfidities into their youth for years (during their revolutionary ‘schooling’).

    It’s probably a bit of this & a bit of that. A quasi-dictatorial regime like Iran’s is always looking for external bogeymen to channel the plebes anger away from the regime (IMO).

  75. 75.

    AA+ Bonds

    @boss bitch:

    I’m being a jerk because roughly 9,467 people gave an answer that ignores how Iranians respond to things that happened more recently than forty years ago, and I’m really genuinely bothered by that

  76. 76.

    The Populist

    @AA+ Bonds: Fair enough BUT you have to be crazy not to see that most Iranians want Iran to wake up and work with the USA and others. To say that a bunch of thugs from the redneck part of their country are a representation of the whole of Iran is naive if you ask me.

    No offense.

  77. 77.

    boss bitch

    The news reports have labeled the students as “hardliners”. That would mean they are pro-government.

  78. 78.

    AA+ Bonds

    @Paul in KY:

    It’s probably a bit of this & a bit of that. A quasi-dictatorial regime like Iran’s is always looking for external bogeymen to channel the plebes anger away from the regime (IMO).

    I agree completely, about this and the issue of Iranian national education. It’s just a little weird to me that so many folks who likely laughed at the idea that the Iraqis would greet us with flowers can believe that the only thing that would piss Iranians off about sanctions over their nuclear program would be if the government told them they had to get pissed off about it

  79. 79.

    The Populist

    @AA+ Bonds: Yes, but the country is mostly YOUNG, they do not remember Britain’s imperialism AND they want to be free of oppression and have their country work to be part of the world.

    They are proud that the country is nuclear, they seem to be ambivalent about nuclear weapons and they want a government that can work with the USA, Europe, et al so that they can have a better life.

    Facts bud. I can tell you the people want the government to reform and work to make things better. They don’t want Iran to be a doormat but if you think thugs attacking an embassy is a populist uprising against Britain, I have a bridge to sell you.

  80. 80.

    The Populist

    @boss bitch: I doubt they are even students. Students rose up and challenged authority. I’ve seen stories talk about how many colleges have outspoken youths that want government reform and an end to mullahs running the show.

  81. 81.

    The Populist

    Now to add to that, most Iranians (I am talking the youth which is the dominant age group in the country) still want religion in government, they want Iran to be a power and be able to defend against ANYBODY who would dare attack her.

    They just want their government to be more open, more accountable and work with others.

  82. 82.

    AA+ Bonds

    @boss bitch:

    The news reports have labeled the students as “hardliners”. That would mean they are pro-government.

    I’d assume many of them are pro-government or profess neutrality toward the government, and some of them have probably been prompted or even hired by the government, because the government probably wouldn’t allow this to happen if it didn’t have a hand in it.

    But that doesn’t mean that all Iranians are super happy about sanctions against their government, or believe that they don’t have the right to a nuclear program. It’s not like 100% of Iranians (even educated Iranians) are secretly in support of everything we do against their government, even if they don’t like their government. I’d imagine that a lot of them are really fucking happy that someone took it to the UK embassy. I might be, if I were them.

    This is why we didn’t get the shower of flowers from Iraq, if anyone can remember all the way back to that war we’re still in.

  83. 83.

    trollhattan

    I’m guessing the Angry Spontaneous [really!] Mob(tm) first ran to the US Embassy then stopped, paused, said a collective “Oh, right” and turned towards the UK Embassy yelling, “Death to those other guys we hate!”

    I always wonder about the timing of stuff like that, and this.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-17/boeing-30-000-pound-bunker-buster-bomb-now-ready-for-combat.html

    Also, too, has anybody checked on the color of Sully’s blog today?

  84. 84.

    Paul in KY

    @AA+ Bonds: Iranians have national pride & most of them probably want nukes (seeing how a lack of nukes didn’t help Iraq). The recent sanctions have no doubt pissed off alot of them (and certainly the government, which seems to be formenting this ‘day of rage’).

  85. 85.

    schrodinger's cat

    OT: This is from the Dish, clueless Punditubbies are at it again. According to young and upcoming villager, Ryan Lizza, with Marco Rubio as a running mate, Romney is going to eat into Obama’s support among minority voters.

  87. 87.

    Brachiator

    BBC News has an interesting timeline on Iran UK relations, focusing on the period beginning after 1979. This supplements the post which links to a timeline from the Telegraph.

    It only makes sense to use the InterTubes to go to British sources for background on this.

  89. 89.

    AA+ Bonds

    I have to go get a run in but my FP offer still stands for those Secret Masters who may be reading. I can keep the troll in my pants if you sic me on the Right, guaranteed, just drop a comment here if there’s interest

  92. 92.

    Linda Featheringill

    I saw some pictures of people attacking the UK embassy, breaking windows, etc.

    They did not seem to be to be as young as the people involved in the Green Revolution. Even if your face is hidden, your body proportions change as you mature into middle age. And these particular demonstrators had more mature bodies.

    So I guess it wasn’t a spontaneous student uprising.

  93. 93.

    patroclus

    This is retaliation for the UK’s imposition of targeted sanctions a few days ago against the Central Bank of Iran and certain named individuals associated therewith. The U.S. has had sanctions against Iran for quite some time, but the rest of the world has not gone along with American policy (the situation is somewhat analogous with Cuba). Korea (and others) routinely buy Iranian-origin oil and banks and other financial firms have typically helped to finance all that by maitaining relationships with the Iranian banking sector. Now, because of the IAEA report, Cameron and Hague have decided to mirror U.S. policy. And this has upset some important factions in the Iranian government, who would seem to have encouraged this protest.

  94. 94.

    trollhattan

    I think the Iranians have been taking PR advice from the Japanese government and TEPCO.

    The Iranian Foreign Ministry expressed “regret for certain unacceptable behaviour by a small number of protesters in spite of efforts by the police”.
    __
    “The relevant authorities have been asked to take the necessary measures and look into this issue immediately,” it said.

  95. 95.

    patroclus

    @trollhattan:

    Sully would be all over it but, lately, he’s been too busy opining on the cutting edge theory that human skin pigmentation can directly and proximately cause intelligence differentiations.

  96. 96.

    burnspbesq

    @AA+ Bonds:

    I mean, reading this thread, one might almost think that BJers are just as guilty as FoxNews reactionaries of lazily devouring news fed to them by the same source, and to their own detriment as they miss incredibly important stories.

    Some of us have lives and careers and can’t spend every waking moment breathlessly reading the things that random blog commenters demand that we read in order to achieve some ill-defined standard of “informed-ness.”

  98. 98.

    Paul in KY

    @Strandedvandal: I don’t consider AA Bonds to be a troll like Caz, jwest, Uncle Clarence & some other boobs whose handles I can’t remember right now.

    He’s on our side (like I think Samara basically is), but get’s too caught up in tactics (and has been spending too much time reading the evil dreck on various right-wing sites. That’s got to mess you up some).

    When he’s not castigating us for our tactical failings, I think he can come up with some excellent posts.

  99. 99.

    Brachiator

    @daveNYC:

    People seem to be taking issue with Mr. Bonds’ intense love of pie.

    Which is unfortunate, since he does have a few points to make.

  101. 101.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    I’m surprised Samara is not here to tell us it’s all of those Christian missionaries from Englang running around Iran converting everyone that’s got the government in fits.

  102. 102.

    Soonergrunt

    OT–Martin Bashir’s show on MSNBC just cut to commercials, with video of Herman Cain and for music they had “Midnight Train to Georgia” by Gladys Knight and the Pips.
    Specifically:
    And I’ll be with him
    On that midnight train to Georgia,
    I’d rather live in his world
    Than live without him in mine.
    I LOLed.

  105. 105.

    Soonergrunt

    @nancydarling:

    My question is what the hell is going on with Levin and McCain.

    We know what’s wrong with McCain. He’s gotten crazy and bitter in his dotage. WTF Levin?

  106. 106.

    wengler

    If you want to know how the UK government views something like this, it goes like so:

    Iran is a police state that organized these protests using paid mobs that they then directed to attack the UK embassy. Iranian government claims to world to have had no ability to stop the angry mobs, but this is diplomatic cover for a violation of international law.

    The Iranian government is sending a message to the UK that it doesn’t like what they did. I’m certain the UK will respond a similar childish fashion.

  108. 108.

    Gex

    @AA+ Bonds: Good thing we have you here. This was a call out for information and discussion to become better informed. And you were able to come in and just start yelling about how stupid everyone is. Way to help.

  109. 109.

    Maude

    The Brits in the embassy must have been scared out of their wits. They probably wondered if they’d be taken hostage or killed.

  115. 115.

    TooManyJens

    @AA+ Bonds:

    I’m being a jerk

    Could have stopped there.

    It only looked to you like people were ignoring current events in the region because you failed to notice all the comments that mentioned current events in your rush to throw a hissy fit about how much smarter you are than everyone else. This is your strategy for getting on the front page? Insulting us all is *Cole’s* gig.

  116. 116.

    David Koch

    @Soonergrunt: instant standard. just as “this is great news for mccain” endures.

    Actually it reminds me of the scene in “The Producers” when Zero Mostel is reading the telegrams and one of them says, “congratulations! ‘Hitler will live forever!”

  118. 118.

    Brachiator

    @nancydarling:

    I pretty much trust Sy Hersh’s reporting. Does any one know any reasons why I should not?

    I don’t know. Because the idea that Iran is not working to get a nuclear weapon defies common sense?

    @wengler:

    Because Sy Hersh’s reporting basically tells us that Iran is not a threat

    Threat to who?

  119. 119.

    eemom

    @David Koch:

    pssst: “great news for mccain” hasn’t “endured.” There’s a difference between “enduring,” and continual repetition by unimaginative people who have nothing original to say of a poor tired old joke that wants nothing more than a peaceful retirement in the footnote section of some history book.

    (Hint.)

  120. 120.

    nancydarling

    According to Hersh, the report from the IAEA is a political document and not based on NEW scientific evidence as to what is happening on the ground with Iran’s nuclear capabilities. There is a new head of the organization, Amano, and Hersh reports that a lot of people who work at IAEA in the lower echelons are not happy with this latest “report”.

  121. 121.

    nancydarling

    @Brachiator: Hersh is not saying they are not working to get nuclear weapons. He also had some interesting things to say about disagreements in the Israeli intelligence organizations in that DemocracyNow piece. I think Hersh’s article is in the New Yorker, or it’s blog and I don’t have access to either, so I’m just going on the Goodman interview.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @nancydarling: The New Yorker article appears to be more about the past GOP presidential debate, and the certainty by Republicans that Iran is a great evil. The piece concludes with this.

    It is possible, of course, that Iran has simply circumvented the reconnaissance efforts of America and the I.A.E.A., perhaps even building Dick Cheney’s nightmare: a hidden underground nuclear-weapons fabrication facility. Iran’s track record with the I.A.E.A. has been far from good: its leadership began construction of its initial uranium facilities in the nineteen-eighties without informing the Agency, in violation of the nonproliferation treaty. Over the next decade and a half, under prodding from ElBaradei and the West, the Iranians began acknowledging their deceit and opened their enrichment facilities, and their records, to I.A.E.A. inspectors.
    __
    The new report, therefore, leaves us where we’ve been since 2002, when George Bush declared Iran to be a member of the Axis of Evil—with lots of belligerent talk but no definitive evidence of a nuclear-weapons program.

    I think that this is an accurate and clear headed assessment about what is known. It also speaks to the limits of current intelligence gathering. It suggests that the US would be foolish to go off half cocked over Iran, or to support an Israeli attack on Iran (hypothetical) over such a thin veneer of evidence.

    But what’s frustrating here is that no one can claim to know for certainty what Iran is up to, and Hersh’s article does little to change this.

  128. 128.

    daveNYC

    @Brachiator:

    Which is unfortunate, since he does have a few points to make.

    I’ve got fillings with a better signal-to-noise ratio than that guy, and at least M_C has a better entertainment-to-condescension ratio.

  131. 131.

    nancydarling

    @Brachiator: Thanks. I find the whole thing worrying given all the neocon retreads on Romney’s foreign policy team. Being against the war in ’03 was a pretty lonely place to be. I would like to be as sure of my position on Iran as I was on Iraq. Is there info out there on their ability to deliver a nuclear warhead? I don’t think they have it. The Iranians are not insane. If they attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, the Israelis would incinerate them. And if the Israelis didn’t do it, we would.

    All of that said, I worry far more about the nuclear weapons we know exist in Pakistan.

  132. 132.

    zanamu

    1. No way were they students: the government does not trust student populations since 2009
    2. The British tend to get blamed for even more than the Americans, since they have had much longer dealings with Iran, to the point that British interests controlled Persian banks from about the 1880s until the Pahlavis – the Qajars who ruled Iran were incompentent kleptocrats and sold pretty much anything that could be sold to the French and British interests at the time
    3. The Iranian government is doing anything it can to draw attention away from its unpopularity
    4. The “accident” at the military base a few weeks ago was almost certainly sabotage, and it would surprise few people if it turns out to be some combination of American/Israeli actions, especially given the careful silence on the topic from all three governments
    5. Iran has been up to its own mischief lately: Nightwatch (KGS’ national security blog) had a discussion today of an Iranian-North Korean link with supplying Syria with nuclear technology, which would be worrying, and this may be an effort to distract the world from that revelation
    6. British sanctions are not particularly new, and adding a new level of them is nothing in the great scheme of things. Iran is not as damaged from sanctions as we would like, because they have Russia and China continuing to support the Khamenei regime.
    7. Finally, the British are just generally hated (see reason 2) to the extent that in my hubby’s hometown in Iran, their annual Ashura passion play (which marks the battle of Kerbala when Hossein was murdered and the rift began between Shi’a and Sunni) features a Pontius Pilate like observer who is by tradition “British,” which is mostly interesting because the battle of Kerbala took place in 670 C.E. I don’t claim to know much about that period of British history, but I’m fairly sure the British footprint was not in the area at the time.
    Anyway, that is Iran’s grievance du jour in a nutshell.

  135. 135.

    Roy G.

    It didn’t get a lot of play on this side of the pond, but it’s a pretty big scandal that the ex Minister of Defense, Liam Fox, was taking his Zionist boy toy, Adam Werritty, to lots of secret meetings with the Mossad and other Israeli officials interested in ginning up the war with Iran:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liam-fox-adam-werritty-and-the-curious-case-of-our-man-in-tel-aviv-6268640.html

    Just google ‘fox werritty’ for lots more dish. It’s pretty crazy how this kid Werritty was able to gain access to all these meetings, even though he is just a ‘close personal friend’ of the now disgraced Mr. Fox.

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    @nancydarling:

    Is there info out there on their ability to deliver a nuclear warhead?

    Iran supposedly has some missiles, but this would still be guesswork.

    If they attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, the Israelis would incinerate them.

    True, but the damage to the region might be tremendous. And the ramifications would be terrible for everyone. In the US, war hawks would milk this shit for a thousand years.

    All of that said, I worry far more about the nuclear weapons we know exist in Pakistan.

    A lot of folk fear a loose nuke would end up with terrorists. I am more concerned that there might be a war between India and Pakistan using tactical nukes. Again, the consequences of this would be terrible.

    ETA: a lot of guesswork about Iran’s ability to attack Europe or Israel with a missile. Nobody knows anything with any reliability. Ability to attack the US: I just don’t see it as likely, but this is just my personal guess, don’t mean squat.

  137. 137.

    Tommy D

    Why the Brits? Because they’re the only embassy of the Big Three left. Israel left. The US was occupied and run out. So they demonstrated at the only available target. Jeeze.

  138. 138.

    FlipYrWhig

    @zanamu:

    I don’t claim to know much about that period of British history, but I’m fairly sure the British footprint was not in the area at the time.

    That’s when all the rulers of England were named things like “Thrithelthroth.” They weren’t exactly projecting hegemony in the Middle East, no.

  139. 139.

    Samara Morgan

    Why the British? And does anyone have a firm grasp as to what is going on over there?

    the population is protesting the new sanctions. the population, even the Greens, are overwhelmingly pro the Iranian nuclear program.
    Obama is just diddling the Israelis with the new sanctions– he an’ Panetta have night terrors about bibi launching on Iran without telling them.

  140. 140.

    wobbly

    The Iranians have always had a HUGE hard on for the Brits, and for good reason. Just Wikipedia up Mossadegh and the coup that that overthrew him.

    Conventional lefty wisdom blames ourselves, our CIA, for the coup that toppled him. Our CIA was only a fellow traveler in that mess. It was MI5 that led the coup, it was their oil company that was nationalized…

    Jesus, haven’t any of you people read Doris Lessing???

  141. 141.

    karen marie

    @AA+ Bonds: I’m going to turn you into pie because you’re such a nasty know-it-all without actually, you know, providing much, if any, “know.”

    ADD: Much better!

    Pies suck! Ha ha, I’m joking, of course. Pies RULE!!

  144. 144.

    opie jeanne

    @The Ancient Randonneur: I posted that yesterday on an unrelated thread. The vote was supposed to come today, but I haven’t heard a thing about it. I don’t believe it will pass.

    Edited to add: Tomorrow morning is the vote.

  145. 145.

    opie jeanne

    @Benjamin Franklin: Ignore him; I couldn’t find an open thread last night when I posted a question unrelated to the thread I was on, and got a couple of polite responses. Other people do post off-topic stuff all the time.

  148. 148.

    opie jeanne

    @Benjamin Franklin: I didn’t want his comment to run you off, but I see you’re made of sterner stuff. Good to meet you, Ben.

    And as you can see, there are several off-topic posts that came along not long after he got on you.

  149. 149.

    El Cid

    Latest summary from Press TV (Iranian government-funded news agency):

    Tehran Police Chief Brigadier General Hossein Sajedinia says Iranian students who had entered the British embassy compound have been removed.
    __
    “The British embassy has been evacuated, and the situation in the embassy is calm,” Sajedinia said on Tuesday.
    __
    Sajedinia added that a number of students in the embassy had been arrested and would be handed over to Iran’s juridical officials, Mehr News Agency reported.
    __
    Earlier on Tuesday, hundreds of Iranian students from different universities entered the compound of the British embassy in Tehran and pulled down Britain’s flag. However, police prevented them from entering the embassy itself.
    __
    Police say they are protecting the embassy building and the documents inside, and the large crowds gathered outside the embassy compound have been dispersed.
    __
    In northern Tehran, Iranian security forces entered a second British diplomatic compound to bring the security situation there under control. Police say all foreign nationals in the compound are under protection of security forces.
    __
    In a statement released later on Tuesday, Iran’s Foreign Ministry expressed regret over the unacceptable actions of a few protesters despite the efforts of Iranian security forces to stop them.

  150. 150.

    wilfred

    The general consensus is that if the Iranians do develop a nuclear weapon it would be strictly as a deterrent, with the possible added strategic value of inhibiting Israeli expansionism, particularly northward through Lebanon – this to access the water from the Litani river. The thinking goes that the necessary population surges for this has to come from Jews moving to Israel, something they might be reluctant to do if they felt that nuclear destruction was possible; it being a lot safer to cheerlead appropriation of Arab land from the safety of America. It would not take many weapons to oblitrate Israel. The threat is what’s important, not the act.

    This is what I hear from Iranians, btw. To read the zionist press, the Iranians are all religous fanatics who will immediately attack Israel the second they get a nuclear weapon because they all want to die. They are all stupid, senseless wogs, in other words, unlike ‘us’: sensible white people who want only what’s best for our children.

    Of course, the inevitable attack on Iran will happen because critical thinking died a long time ago. The popular thinking here is that the last card left for Obama to play is to attack Iran, thus securing zionist support and defusing attacks from the right-wing.

    Country first, eh?

  151. 151.

    Bago

    Someone has to consider the fact that Iran is surrounded on the east and west by the most powerful army on the face of the planet. Just sayin.

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