Ross Douthat hits Gingrich with his best shot. Summary: Newt Gingrich is just like Obama, a brilliant professor-type blah blah blah.
I don’t want to do these idiots’ job for them, but they’re not going at this the right way.
Anywho, Newt’s agression will not stand. Don’t be surprised if Chunky Bobo becomes Bayh-curious.
Yutsano
Best line of the whole damn column.
c u n d gulag
Actually, for most of it, this was by far the most coherent and non-insipid column ever by this facile schmuck.
Also two: at least he didn’t lecture us all about, you know – S-E-X!
Of course, that fugly old sphincter in human form, Ol’ Newt Gingrich, got more ass from his female staff members on a working weekend in DC than poor Russ has had in his whole life, or even dreamed about – proving once and for all that the most powerful aphrodisiac on the planet is either power or money – or both!
But then, Young Russ couldn’t get laid with a fistful of pardons in a women’s prison.
Or a men’s one either, come to think about it…
AT
Yes exactly like Obama except for the whole popularity with the people thing that Obama has going, even in the face of an extended economic shit storm, oh and the 1 wife to 3 thing, and the actual legislative achievement compared to stiring up shit over a blowjob.
To be fair thoguh he is white so that makes up for any other deficiencies.
He might do either of those things, but we all know which one it will be….
Arclite
I used this line on a waitress at Applebee’s and she spilled ice tea on me.
Yutsano
@Arclite: Please tell me your wife wasn’t around. :)
dadanarchist
Does anyone else look at the word “Douthat” and get the feeling that it means “doo-doo” in some Central Asian language?
Or is that just me?
Anya
Bayh is so boring, a chair is more exciting than him. I doubt anyone would be interested in his candidacy.
Wag
I read the name Douthat, see the words Do That, and try to do the exact opposite.
burnspbesq
Totally OT, but I’m curious to hear the Eli-haters’ take on the last five minutes of tonight’s game.
Punchy
@Arclite: I’m surprised she didn’t lead you to the salad bar.
amk
what’s the over/under that the professional left/firebaggers and their ilk start running the new meme obama = newt, replacing the obama = boosh one, from next week ?
Veritas
Mitt is the nominee.
RealityCheck
hildebrand
Newt is to a real college professor as Newt is to a real college professor.
shoutingattherain
Read this quote a while back from a poster here. This can’t be said enough:
amk
@Veritas: Give ti up willard, you’re toast. Wanna bet ?
Spaghetti Lee
Didn’t Bayh leave specifically to get some lobbying job, with some BS about how he can’t stand the partisan nature of Congress anymore as cover? He seems to exist more as a concept than a person in this context, but hey, I guess that’s nothing new.
Royston Vasey
@Veritas:
Looking increasingly doubtful
burnspbesq
Douthat may be many things, but a real hot cookie is not one of them.
Anya
How desperate is Romney? He uses Ann Coulter’s endorsement in an Iowa ad.
Hill Dweller
Romney has enlisted Coulter to help him in Iowa. They are flailing.
Veritas
@Royston Vasey:
Even if Mitt loses 3 out of 4 of the early states, there’s a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong stretch between the early states and Super Tuesday. Mitt has the cash, the discipline, and determination to see this thing through–whereas Newt is running a shoestring budget and can blow up at any time.
Mitt is the low-pressure engine, Newt is the high-pressure engine. And the thing about a high-pressure engine is, it can get an early lead quickly…but it can blow up at any time.
Slow and steady will win the race. Bank on it.
RealityCheck
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Veritas: For your next pseudonym, after this one gets banned, I suggest “Pravda”.
Hill Dweller
Romney has never worn well. The more people see of Willard, the more they despise him.
Veritas
@Hill Dweller:
Tell that to his wife. Tell that to his children. Tell that to his Church. Tell that to Bain Capital. Tell that to the 2002 Winter Olympics, or the people of Massachusetts. Mitt Romney has been effective in every position of leadership he as ever held.
Compare that to Obambi, and his record of high unemployment, low-growth, malaise, and despair.
RealityCheck
Punchy
Rainy and 40F here. Where the fuck is the Jesus snow? How can it be Xmas season if I’m going barefoot to the mailbox in mid December?
Redshift
@Spaghetti Lee: No, he left talking BS about how he couldn’t stand the partisan nature of Congress anymore, and that he was going to serve the public in some other way, and then somewhat later took a lobbying job (and also a job with a private equity firm and the Chamber of Commerce, which I had somehow missed.) Oh, and he’s working for Fox. Because he hates poisonous partisanship sooooooo much!
But really, there were a few months between when he left office in a highly principled manner and when he really obviously went against all of those supposed principles for big bucks. So that must be the statute of limitations on principles or something.
some guy
Obama beats them both in South Carolina, according to current polling. ouch
watch the “smart money” start to dry up for both of them, but hey, watching “Professor” Newt lose to “Professor” Barack would be even more njoyable than Dirty Old Man McCain’s ass whooping.
srv
If the good doctor in Brazil got started in 1980, the Republicans would have a second coming available in 2016.
Seriously, you’d think the Koch brothers would have gotten some of Ronnie’s DNA at some point.
some guy
@Redshift:
Bayh Rules are exactly 0.5 of a Friedman Unit.
did you not get the memo?
The Moar You Know
Yawn.
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
@burnspbesq: The last five minutes of that game rocked. Huge Giants fan living in Houston and I was out at a bar with a bunch of Cowboys fans. Giant are undefeated in Jerry world.
Veritas
LOL you trust polling from NBC News?
In the real world, the Q-Pac poll has BOTH Romney AND even Newt tied with Obambi in Florida and Ohio.
RealityCheck
some guy
awesome. a troll who has never been to either touting both.
brava
dadanarchist
Tell that to all the people Bain Capital laid off… oh, wait a second…
Hill Dweller
The people of Massachusetts began despising Willard almost immediately. In fact, Mitt didn’t run for reelection because his approval rating was in the mid-30’s, assuring his ass kicking.
I’m sure the Obama campaign is more than happy to talk about Bain Capital, and all the people who last their jobs thanks to Romney’s brand of vulture capitalism.
Even better, they can talk about the government bailout that saved the Salt Lake games.
Veritas
@Hill Dweller:
Gov. Romney will talk about the failed stimulus, the record debt and deficit, record unemployment, stagnant economic growth, malaise, and the weakness we have shown before the world. Under Obambi, we’re the laughingstock of the world.
Mitt will restore our strength and prestige.
RealityCheck
some guy
down here in Florida everyone (sane or rational, employed, unemployed, foreclosed, etc) is praying Gnut wins the Greedy Old People nomination.
run, gnut, run………….
amk
@Veritas: yeah, MA’ians did tell you off, with their finger, you perennial political loser. Ted, mccain (of all people) and now perry (jesus fucking perry), cain, newter – all kicked your sorry ass, willard.
dadanarchist
Now you’re just fucking with us.
NëedBetterTrøllz
Paul
@Veritas: @Veritas:
You’re funny.
Veritas
@amk:
Pray tell, why did the people of Massachusetts elect Governor Romney in 2002?
RealityCheck
JGabriel
@Yutsano: Heh, that cracked me up too.
.
grumpy realist
Well, given that you call him “Obambi” shows exactly how much credence we should place in you.
What is this delusion that the trolls on the right have that “anyone can beat Obama”? Madness.
Veritas
Besides, this election is first and foremost a referendum on the performance of the economy under Obambi.
Veritas
@grumpy realist:
Anyone CAN, but Mitt Romney will.
Snark Based Reality
“Mitt will restore our strength and prestige.”
Goddamn. You’re not supposed to make the fact you’re trolling and not really believing what you’re saying so damn obvious.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Veritas: No, Hill Dweller had it right. Each year of Romney’s term as Mass Governor, his popularity dropped. He was clearly NOT an effective leader.
I understand these comments aren’t sinking in due to the fingers in your ears and the incessant warbling of “LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU” coming out of your piehole, but facts is facts.
some guy
the great thing about “reality” check is how clueless he is about the fact that the base of his fellow Greedy Old People party despises Mittens and his godless heathenish cultish ways.
magical underwear AND sister wives ?????
dogwood
Here’s something that “Obots” , “Firebaggers” and regular old Democrats like me should be able to agree upon. Barack Obama is the only Democratic who has ever completely flummoxed the modern Republican party when it comes to their legendary message discipline. He’s a Muslim anti-colonialist; he’s liberation theology Christian. He’s a Harvard elitist; he’s a gang banger. He’s a professorial intellectual; he’s a guy who can’t read his name without a teleprompter. He’s Stalin; he’s Hitler. And now he’s Newt Gingrich. Republicans have been running around in circles since 2004 trying to figure out what to do with this guy, and they still can’t keep their stories straight.
amk
@Veritas: And pray tell, why they soured on you almost immediately. Was it because they saw how phony you are ?
Veritas
@some guy:
The Jesus Freaks no longer control our party. Fiscal conservatives do.
JGabriel
@Veritas:
Let us introduce you to a site called Wikipedia. They have an entire article on the 2002 Massachusetts Gubernatorial Election that may be able to answer your questions for you.
A more interesting question might be, why did Mitt quit after only one term? What was he afraid of?
Maybe we should call him “Quitty Mitty”.
.
dadanarchist
Now you’re not even trying.
NëedBetterTrøllz
amk
@JGabriel: fuck, the mofo quit half way through 2008 GE too. At least huckster dogged mccain till the end.
Hill Dweller
I almost forgot, Willard, after months of dodging the question, endorsed Ryan’s kill medicare plan the other day in an effort to out-conservative Newt. The commercials write themselves.
dogwood
@Veritas:
In Romneyworld where corporations are people too, the Olympic have now been elevated to personhood. I’m thrilled to hear this. I’m gonna go and find the 2002 Winter Games and let him know I think those Canadian pairs skaters wuz robbed.
JGabriel
@Veritas:
It’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping!
.
ChrisNYC
Watch the first few minutes of the Romney interview with the Des Moines Register ed board. He gets off three or four really weird comments just in that space of time. It’s shocking. It reminds me of bad job interviews I’ve had. But this guy ran for Pres once already.
One woman compliments him, saying he looks thinner than in 2008. He looks at her intensely and says, “Actually I weigh the same as I did in high school. It’s strange.” Unnerving. Just say thanks or whatever. He then keeps talking about his weight and eventually ends up with “So I’m still fighting to keep the pounds off.” It’s very strange on the video. I don’t know if I’m communicating it.
Also how weird was it last night when he said about the Obama campaign, “They say I have no core.” Why would someone running repeat that charge. It’s so scary. NO CORE.
sfinny
@Veritas: So wait, you are admitting that the Jesus Freaks did control your party for a time?
The Republic of Stupidity
Bayh-curious?
***shudders…***
Please don’t tell me this will somehow devolve into the swapping of bodily fluids… just to collect DNA samples…
slag
Genius.
Anoniminous
@ChrisNYC:
Romney, as a politician, sucks little green donkey dicks. The guy has been running for the GOP presidential nomination for five years and he STILL makes mistakes, on national television no less, a retarded baboon running for town clerk of Frostbite Ball, Minnesota would avoid.
(+4, going +5)
KG
@AT: If only I could put some money on that. But I’m guessing the odds wouldn’t make it worth it.
Yutsano
@Anoniminous:
I’ll blame the booze for that, since Bullwinkle’s home town is Frostbite Falls. Unless there’s some other podunk town up there similarly named I’ve never heard of. It could be possible. It’s a chaotic universe.
ChrisNYC
@Anoniminous: True. I didn’t realize it until this year. I’m thinking it may be the result of his complete lack of honesty. I mean, really, at the debate when he said he’s running because his wife told him he had to? Geez everyone knows that’s a big dumb lie. He just has zero regard for forthrightness.
dadanarchist
That makes a lot of sense. While the Rumproasters seem convinced that Mitt is actually a robot or some other simulacra of an actual living human being, I chalk the robotic personality up to the fact that Mitt Romney has lied so many times to so many different audiences that at this point he can’t keep the lies straight, so he’s reduced to muttering creepy phrases like, “He says I have no core” with no follow-up…
The prophet Nostradumbass
@slag: I would just like someone to send me a chunkier Reese Witherspoon my way. RAWR.
sfinny
The amazing thing to me is that I have no memory of Romney as governor of Massachusetts. While I live in NY and work in CT, we have many clients in MA and we do keep an eye on any state issues that may affect them. And the years that Mitt was in charge, nothing.
Hill Dweller
@sfinny: Benen has an article up at his place talking about Romney’s time as Governor. It is pretty brutal. Apparently Romney just quit governing about halfway through his term, after his approval rating had sunk to 33%. Thomas Whalen, a Boston University political science professor, put it this way: “To know Mitt Romney is to dislike him. That is the moral of the story.”
dogwood
@ChrisNYC:
It’s hard for me to even watch Romney. There’s something so incongruous about him. Let’s face it. We expect tall, handsome rich guys to have confidence and charm. Instead, Rommey is awkward and pathetic. If he looked geeky, his geeky ways would be less jolting. He always appears to be running scared. I think his Mormonism has something to do with this. I’ve lived around Mormons most of my life, and its a secretive religion in terms of its rituals. Non-Mormons aren’t allowed in any Temple. Hell, Mormons who can’t get a Temple recommend from guys like Mitt can’t get in either. The LDS church has no theologically trained clergy. Instead respected businessmen and professionals in the faith community become Bishops. Romney, of course is a Bishop. As far as I’m concerned, Mitt’s been damn lucky that the press knows nothing about the Church and isn’t much interested. He’s also lucky that evangelicals don’t know anything about the structure of the LDS church. If they knew he wasn’t just a member, but rather the equivalent of a minister they would really flip their lids.
Anoniminous
@Yutsano:
As a devout worshiper of Moose and Squirrel … I know that.
It was originally a typo, I caught it, and left it in, thought it was more humorously snarky.
@ChrisNYC:
That’s one hell of a “Honey-Do” List:
1. Fix the electric outlet in the den
2. Take the trash out
3. Win the Presidency
4. Grab some milk, bread, and eggs at the grocery store
(+5 and falling over …Thuuuuuuuud.)
ChrisNYC
@dadanarchist: A friend of mine thinks that he’s doomed because of his “like me like me” quality. She thinks we don’t go for needy presidents. But there is a part that is, “Screw you idiots. I can say anything and you’ll swallow it.”
Just one more — he totally missed last night on the cap gains tax. He pointed out to the DMR people that Gingrich’s plan for no cap gains tax would mean that he (Romney) would pay no federal taxes AT ALL. I mean, even for GOPers, people think gazillionaire Romney should pay some damn tax. That’s a winner but he didn’t say it. Weird.
Joey Maloney
@AT:
And as I sit here typing, the random Brownian motion might cause all the air in the room to collect in one corner, leaving me gasping in vacuum. I posit the latter event is millions of times more probable than the former.
Yutsano
@Anoniminous: Hey I did leave you an out. :)
Turgidson
I have no doubt that Newt could convince his knuckle-dragging base that he out-debated Obama.
But I am also confident that even the fickle idiot independents will realize that he’s full of shit and swing toward Obama. And women might go 80-20 for Obama if Newt is the nominee.
ChrisNYC
@dogwood: I think he said last night that he “was” a minister. First time I heard that. But geez he can’t be something called a Bishop and get elected. Even separate from anti-Mormon bias, people are not voting for a Bishop.
dogwood
@ChrisNYC:
Romney doesn’t have the balls to even think this.
AxelFoley
@Veritas:
$10,000 says he’s not.
[I bet–no pun intended–someone already beat me to it]
AxelFoley
@dogwood:
This right here. President Obama has fuckin’ OWNED the GOP. Other Dems could take lessons on how to take the GOP to the woodshed.
No one of importance
@Joey Maloney:
Is it possible that Gingrich’s willingness to be nasty and fight dirty will be seen as triumphant over Obama’s quiet saneness? I ask in all sincerity because I don’t know Gingrich’s past history/style well enough to say. Does he only do well against idiots like Romney or has he taken down smarter people than that?
Citizen Alan
@Veritas:
Please stop. I have a sore throat and it hurts terribly when I laugh out loud uncontrollably. If Slick Willard gets the GOP nomination, Obama will win Mississippi!
dogwood
@ChrisNYC:
I know I sound like I’m slagging on Mormons, but I’m really not. Church members are very different from those who rise to become elders and Bishops. The latter group wield a great deal of power over the members in their Wards, and a good share of them are sanctimonious pricks. Several years ago a dear friend of mine signed a newspaper ad supporting a Democratic politican and she was called before her Bishop and reprimanded. She basically told him to fuck off knowing full well she risked losing her Temple recommend and the right to attend her step-daughter’s wedding ceremony. I don’t think most Bishops are that bad, but their moral authority is absolute. That’s part of the reason why Romney is so flummoxed when he’s called out for being a lying sack of shit. I know people like to make fun of the “magic underwear” which doesn’t seem that weird to people like me who’ve lived in Mormonville. What you need to understand about the “magic underwear” is that once you become a Bishop it’s really a bullet-proof vest. The fact that it’s not protecting him in a national campaign is driving Mitt crazy.
AA+ Bonds
Their tortured logic and its false premises:
1) I, Ross Douthat, am an intellectual
2) I don’t get along with many normal Americans
3) Thus Americans don’t like intellectuals
4) So I’ll call this guy I don’t like an intellectual
5) And that’ll show ’em, that’ll show ’em all
AA+ Bonds
@No one of importance:
If we get a Gingrich campaign in the general you will suddenly be reminded of the President’s extreme rhetorical skill at being nasty and fighting dirty, much to your benefit and Gingrich’s dismay. The idea that Gingrich is better on the attack than Obama evidences the media’s complete lack of memory concerning things that happened a few years ago, just like Mitt Romney’s candidacy, or Newt Gingrich’s
dogwood
@No one of importance:
Since the only people he’s ever run against were two-bit politicians from a redneck Georgia congressional district, he’s never taken down anyone. I think I said it in another thread, but it is worth repeating. Newt hasn’t even campaigned in this election. He just opened his first office in Iowa. For all his years in politics, Newt has little to show for it other than a fat wallet and a fat head. No one in the party owes him anything because he’s never bothered with building the types of relationships you need if you want to rally the troops for a presidential run.
Ian
@Veritas:
Grammar is useful. It may be most likely that ‘Mitt will be the nominee’.
‘Mitt is the nominee’ is not yet true. Ask the Hillary supporters in mid 2007 about that sense of inevitability.
AA+ Bonds
The truth is that Gingrich appears to be “great on the attack” and an “attack dog” because:
1) The media hopes everyone forgot who won in Gingrich/Starr/the media vs. Bill Clinton,
2) Everyone else in the Republican field is either too compromised or too extremist to be as strident as Gingrich,
3) Obama has yet to scan the room, lock eyes with Newt’s beady little nictitating membranes, and slowly point directly at him, mouthing “you’re next”
Viva BrisVegas
At the moment in the polls Obama beats all the Republican challengers either easily or ridiculously easily, but he loses to a generic Republican.
Fortunately for him there seem to be no generic Republicans left in the Republican Party.
jl
Newt debating against Obama will be an interesting test case
Obama can talk about complex interacting and interlocking aspects of multiple problems, spanning through multiple levels, and be able to back it up with a working knowledge of the subject matter, and will be able to give examples.
Nest can talk about complex interacting and interlocking aspects of multiple problems, through multiple levels, and have no idea at all what he is talking about, and when cornered will retreat into total nonsense (say, how moon mining will solve the incentive problems of poor kids who do not understand the value of honest work, and revive flag day and other patriotic values).
Which will go over better with the US media, the voters, the GOP base?
Not sure we will see a Newt/Obama match up, though. Can Newt run a real presidential campaign as a sideline to his world historical cultural education business? Will he develop the ability to run organized national campaign? Will he need to, or will teabagger enthusiasm propel him, like a rocket, smashing through all interlocking and interconnected campaign organization issues, on many levels, through to victory?
I guess some of it depends on Newt’s incentives. Win the presidency, or make some more sure bank from selling Newtswag?
AA+ Bonds
Obama currently wins vs. Gingrich in South Carolina and while the Republican will surely take SC in the general that is such a terrible sign for the Republicans that it’s only a little funny to me, I mean, those poor Ku Klux Klan SC campaign workers are people too under certain definitions of the word
AA+ Bonds
@jl:
I think it will come down to simple rhetorical force and the whole “teleprompter” bit was Rove attack-the-strengths: Obama actually wields a flame-thrower in debates and Gingrich will walk out of the room each time missing layers of fat and trailing a cloud of smoke and ash.
The problem with that strategy, the teleprompter thing, is that it leaves the Republican base absolutely unprepared for the demoralizing images of Obama ripping someone up, off the cuff, on national TV, just like he did with McCain.
It’s also worth remembering that the most effective opinion-makers among the Republicans chose Romney, not Gingrich; in fact, pretty much nobody chose Gingrich; mobilizing his war room will involve a lot of friction and a lot of the Republicans’ best brains just dropping out until 2014 Congressional elections.
magurakurin
@Veritas: You want to bet $10,000 on it? I will happily take Obama over Romney for 10 large. Anyday, twice on Sunday. What say you? Even just for fake. If you win you can say I owe you 10G’s forever and vice versa.
Is it a bet?
jl
Some good news I learned this weekend. Apparently the Mayan apocalypse is off.
Friend reported back from trip to Peru. All the Peruvian tour guides assured everyone that the supposed Mayan Apocalypse is due to the crummy Mayan Calendar which only works for 14 K or so years.
The Inca calendar is way better, goes over 20 K years, and no apocalypse in that sucker.
Only drawback is that I am now confused. Everything seemed to be coming together for a nice apocalypse right around election time, at least for the US.
So, I am relieved but slightly more confused about what the US descent into primitive impulses will come to. Seemed like heading towards apocalypse to me. But I guess will probably have to settle for a hum drum dystopia.
magurakurin
@AxelFoley: It appears nobody beat you to it….but YOU beat me to it.
AA+ Bonds
Whoever takes the Republican candidacy will also suddenly become the face of White Power and White Oppression in front of a country that really wants to believe it’s all done with that business, even the racists want to believe that, don’t underestimate the poor visuals, McCain started out the championship match in 2008 by his trainers knocking his legs out from under him and saying “NOW GO GET THAT N . . . “
AA+ Bonds
I will bet anyone here $10 million that Obama wins in 2012
AA+ Bonds
Americans may have the same standard weird evo-psych-fueled misconceptions as all other humans about who is responsible for the economy but they have never seen an economic or political situation like this one since FDR and here’s the thing about Americans, they aren’t fuckin stupid
Among other things the Republicans fucked up so royally that people still blame Bush for the current economy in poll after poll, like, they actually remember the last Republican President. WHOOPS
dogwood
Ah the power of Republican talking points. Newt wants everyone to think this election will be won on the debate floor and everyone falls in line with that thinking. My guess is debates between Obama and Gingrich will be like most presidential debates – relatively boring gabfests that the media obsess about for a few days but that have a minimal effect on election outcomes.
Joey Maloney
@No one of importance: Like Turgidson said, I have no doubt that the GOP dead-enders will come out of the Presidential debates convinced that Newt is the winner, but that result will be the same if they nominate Mitt or Bachmann or a broken toaster.
As for the not-completely-deluded segment of the population, I suspect that next to Obama, Newt will look like a petulant grade-grubbing freshman talking to a professor emeritus. No doubt he will sling more bullshit than Obama can correct in three times the time alotted, and no doubt David Brooks will stroke his, uh, chin and tell us all what a deep thinker Newt is, but I hope that the younger demographic – that wasn’t paying attention during the Contract On America/Spoogegate/Murdoch bribe fail parade – will be as repulsed by him now as most were then.
AA+ Bonds
@dogwood:
But I think it’s worth mentioning that Obama would also destroy Newt in debates, Newt has nothing, worse than nothing going for him, he’s actively bad in the general in countless ways, his supposed strengths are actually all crippling weaknesses because they’re all shared to a much larger degree by the President.
The difference between Obama vs. Mitt and Obama vs. Newt is that in the latter case, Obama would not have to worry about “looking mean” and we’d probably see some of the most spectacular take-downs in the history of the country
AA+ Bonds
@Joey Maloney:
I wasn’t old enough to vote in 2000 but I remember all that shit very very very well, it was hard to miss it in adolescence, and hard to side with the people telling the guy that his sex life was their business
AA+ Bonds
It was definitely the defining moment of my (and many other Gen-Y-ers’) political development, Gingrich and his successors gleefully talking about erections and ejaculate and how they needed to be stopped while America grew embarrassed and listless and wandered off somewhere else.
It was like the entire country was having the Puberty with me
No one of importance
@AA+ Bonds:
“here’s the thing about Americans, they aren’t fuckin stupid”
Um, recent history, your gun laws, your choice of presidents, the popularity of Palin et al, your television, and your fast food would indicate a very *special* kind of not stupid, if you’re right.
AA+ Bonds
@No one of importance:
You better not jump to the double black diamond slope just yet lil pardner, stick around and watch a bit first
dogwood
One of the advantages of having Newt or Mitt as an opponent, is that it frees Obama up a bit more relative to the last election. People forget that Obama and McCain had the highest personal favorability numbers of any two candidates who had measured in that category before. Thus there wasn’t anything to gain for Obama by dropping the deadpan one line zingers that we know he’s capable of delivering. Most Americans didn’t want to watch McCain squirm. However, watching Newt or Mitt squirm isn’t gonna offend the sensibilities of many voters outside of wingnutistan.
But I’ll make a prediction about debates right now. If there’s a defining moment in any debate it will be the president’s reaction to questions about the repeal of DADT. This got no coverage, but I saw a clip of the President speaking to one of the gay activist groups a few weeks ago. I’m too lazy to look up the quote, but he said something like this:
Eight candidates aspiring to become Commander in Chief of the finest military the world has ever known stood silently on a stage while an American soldier was booed. No one who would allow that is worthy to lead the brave men and women of our armed forces.
There is no comeback line for that. But I do look forward to Newt or Mitt’s response.
No one of importance
@AA+ Bonds:
I literally have no idea what you just said :)
Origuy
@ChrisNYC:
Imagine if he came out against a proposal that meant that he didn’t pay any taxes. The GOP base would think he was crazy. They can’t imagine anyone who thinks they themselves should pay taxes; look what they say about Warren Buffett.
dogwood
@No one of importance:
He knows that. That was the point.
CarolDuhart2
One overlooked advantage Obama will have will be the same one he had last time: organization. Obama was the only one who had a ground game last time, and neither Romney nor Newt have one, or much of one now. Neither one has much capacity to grow one either. Evangelicals who despise Romney’s religion are hardly going to knock on doors for him in the general any more than they were for McCain. Even less, for at least McCain shared their religion, and at least gave them the idea that he would listen to some of them. And there was Sarah to bend his ear.
Newt, running in a single district and never statewide, may not even realize how important it is to have one until it’s too late to build an effective one.
In any event, they are both hard to sell door-to-door to distracted voters. Both are unpleasant and graceless folks without a strong resume of caring about “people like you”. They both have records of using-and discarding people and showing an interest in only filling their own pockets.
No one of importance
@dogwood:
okay. This must be some American ‘not stupid’ game.
Charming.
Frankensteinbeck
@Viva BrisVegas:
Generic politicians always slaughter real politicians in the polls. Generic politicians have no faults and espouse every policy position you think they ought to.
Joey Maloney
@CarolDuhart2: We’ll see. This will be the first presidential election since Citizens United, and there will be massive sums of unaccountable, untraceable money pumped into the system. The R’s might be dumb enough to think that a blitzkrieg of smear ads and robocalls is enough to overcome a well-organized ground game. And who knows, coupled with all the voter suppression laws passed this year they might be right.
If they’re not that dumb, they’ll spend some of that Koch cash on growing their own organization. If they don’t wait much longer, there’s enough time to build an effective one.
CarolDuhart2
@Joey Maloney: Given the amount of political malpractice from the R’s I’ve seen so far, I’m inclined to believe they do believe that ads will do it, which is why the money hasn’t flowed so far. Plus, national money wants a sure bet, and they won’t give until it’s clear who the nominee is. They don’t want to max out and then find out their candidate won’t win the primary, thus getting shut out of influence by the winner. Plus ads are sexy, a canvasser isn’t very sexy (at least in most places).
Last time, McCain was underfunded all the way till the convention-and afterwards they tried to get temps to do the canvassing work they needed-and it didn’t work too well.
harlana
yes, i want all these fuckers to jump on the Newt bandwagon, nothing would be sweeter than watching Obama politely tear him to shreds, slowly, in his own inimitable prof-like fashion
but instead you have all this internecine fighting, they’re just not as coordinated as they used to be. tsk, tsk, ain’t that a shame
=D
CarolDuhart2
@harlana: Oh yeah, I feel so sorry for them. NOT. I my less sober moments I do feel a little sorry. It’s not just McCain, but the entire party can’t find a clue anymore. Obama will quietly rip Newt to shreds. Why? I don’t think Newt has ever really had it rough or dealt with someone he can’t intimidate in some fashion.
For both, I think it’s instructive that neither has ever really had to put it on the line electorally. Newt never even tried to run a statewide race, and Mitt declined to run for a second term.
CarolDuhart2
@CarolDuhart2: If the ground situation with McCain was terrible, either one would have to rely totally on temps this time around for everything except campaign strategy and polling. And guess who the likely pools of temps are? You guessed it.
WereBear
@srv: That would make one weird web movie!
The Noise from Brazil
The Second Coming of Reagan
Armageddon II: Pretty Tired of Peace and Prosperity
Lojasmo
@No one of importance:
Even I, a moron-American, got the reference. Glass houses, and such, dude,
SensesFail
So Gingrich may do well at debating, or he may do poorly?
Insightful stuff.
There’s a partisan shot and nothing more. So conservatives “know” that President Obama is not the messiah? No fucking shit; we can infer that because they “know” that he is the anti-christ.
dogwood
@Joey Maloney:
@CarolDuhart2:
I have no idea how the Obama campaign will handle the slimy ads that will result from the Citizens United decision. But in many ways it should be easier than having to directly confront his opponent, When some outfit calling itself Citizens for Liberty or Freedom or whatever puts out an ad full of lies and distortion you simply put the Potus in front of a camera and cut a response. I’d have him say something like – –Citizens for Freedom have spent X amount of dollars to tell you XYZ. Who are Citizens for Freedom? We’ll never know. Their donor list is secret. While we might not know who they are, we do know what they are. They are liars and cowards afraid to put their names on their handiwork.—-Then the Potus corrects the lies and you’ve got a pretty good response. I think that’s the best approach because it displays a better understanding of the rhetorical situation than Democrats traditionally display. Every communication has a speaker, audience and a message. Democrats make the mistake of going after the message. Repbulicans understand that if you discredit the speaker, the content gets lost in the shuffle. If Obama is savvy enough he should turn the tables on the GOP. Remember 08 and all the “Who is Barack Obama” boogieman crap? Well, he should be asking the same question about these shady organizations this time. I just hope he doesn’t simply go for the usual suspects, name dropping, base directed approach. No mention of Karl Rove or the Koch brothers. Keep these bastards nameless and faceless. They’re a lot scarier that way.
cmorenc
@c u n d gulag:
Yes, actually for once Douthat’s analysis is absolutely spot-on, and free of distracting tangents (like sexual issues). His thesis is that the notion that Newt is up to the intellectual/rhetorical task of beating Obama at debating over the nation’s future is waaaay over-rated, just ask Abraham Lincoln about Steven Douglas, Kerry about George Bush, etc. about how well being the superior intellect/debater turned out in the election at hand.
True!
cmorenc
@SensesFail:
Actually, progressives themselves have expressed frequent, massive disappointment that Obama didn’t turn out to be the progressive messiah and black FDR/Teddy Roosevelt/Thomas Jefferson they thought he was going to be. The upside is that lately, most of them have come around to appreciating just how massively better he and his mixed accomplishments are than the toxic clown show of candidates on the GOP side. So, while the aura of political Jesus has worn off Obama, he’s morphed into more like a flawed but immensely talented general for our side in the war for the future, and we’re all hoping he turns out to be more like Ulysses Grant in his accomplishments (often winning ugly, but winning nonetheless) than Robert E. Lee (revered, brilliantly, beautifully successful at times but critically blundering at others, and in the end coming out a decisive loser).
gocart mozart
Bill Clinton ran circles around him when he was speaker (95-98)
Paul in KY
Who happens to be the ‘right’ colour & has an alien wife, from that world where they all have blue antennas (she must have had hers trimmed).
Paul in KY
@Hill Dweller: I’m wondering if she’s ever made some catty remarks about him in the past. She’s made them about everyone, so surely she zinged him once.
Paul in KY
@The prophet Nostradumbass: How about ‘MacFlecknoe’? That would be another one that would work with the personality involved.
Paul in KY
@dogwood: He’s ALL OF THOSE!! That’s what makes him so diabolical.
Paul in KY
@ChrisNYC: I’d be surprised if he technically isn’t one. From what I’ve read, if you are a fine & upstanding, go-getter Mormon (male), you get to be a Bishop.
Even that weirdo Mitchell out in Utah that kidnapped the little girl was pissed because he couldn’t make Bishop. If that wacko thought he had a shot, then Mitt should be one (IMO).
Paul in KY
@No one of importance: I think he said he was about ready to open up some rehtorical whupass on you & wanted you to consider whether or not you wanted to get the ‘AA Bonds’ treatment ;-)
Paul in KY
@Origuy: Steve Forbes tried that & it didn’t play well.
Also, Forbes looked like the creep that stands around watching the litle kids play on the merrygoround, so it might have been more that…