Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

T R E 4 5 O N

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2012 / Floyd R. Turbo Doesn’t Like You, Either, Willard

Floyd R. Turbo Doesn’t Like You, Either, Willard

by | 168 Comments

This post is in: , ,

Not actually Floyd R. Turbo, in New Hampshire, via Charlie Pierce, at Esquire‘s Daily Politics Blog:

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Ya gotta watch out for the ones in the gimme caps, Willard.
__
Also, I want somebody to force Victor Davis Carnage-&-Culture Hanson to confront the actual Modern American Spartan Warrior, in the hopes that he’ll suffer a cerebral hemorrhrage severe existential crisis.

Reader Interactions

168Comments

  1. 1.

    BGinCHI

    Wow. Didn’t see that coming. If you’re pressed for time, go forward to when Romney gets up and leaves at about 2:25. The vet’s answer to the reporters’ questions is pretty amazing and brave.

  2. 2.

    TooManyJens

    Romney is such a smarmy fuck. The way he can sit there with that plastic grin on his face while telling a man that he shouldn’t get to be married to the person he loves. Try a little empathy, asshole. (Yes, I know, that’s not allowed for Republicans.)

  3. 3.

    Benjamin Franklin

    You have to feel sorry for the White Salamander afficionado.

    Even when he feels he can speak without reservation, he gets his ass handed back.

    Thisis the best the GOP can muster?

  4. 4.

    Veritas

    NEWT PEAKS TOO EARLY?

    His lead is now down to only 10 points in Iowa. Now it’s all about the expectations game–Romney’s expectations have crashed, and Newt’s have soared. Even if Newt eeks out a narrow win in Iowa, it will be a victory for Mitt.

    RealityCheck

  5. 5.

    BGinCHI

    The DNC should make an ad with that guy. I think it might get some fence-sitters in the Old Country Buffet generation to notice that not all gay guys are like Liberace.

  6. 6.

    c u n d gulag

    I LOVE this guy!

    Poor Mitt, in debates, he loses votes in droves.

    And in face to face encounters, he loses votes.

    Also too:
    This is a lot different position than Newt had in years past when he was trying to appeal to MA’s more Liberal voters.
    This Vet must have thought he was meeting with Mitt 1.0, or Mitt 2.0, and not the uber-Conservative Mitt 3.0

    Maybe Mitt would do better if he hadn’t changed position than often Debbie when she was doing Dallas?

  10. 10.

    Brachiator

    The vet’s answer to the reporters’ questions is pretty amazing and brave.

    Yep. I’m waiting for the inevitable BS from conservative sites that Romney was somehow “ambushed” by the question.

    On the other hand, I hope this video is viewed frequently on conservative sites, on YouTube, everywhere.

  11. 11.

    lamh35

    I just have to laugh at this. Because ya’ll know Romney and his people saw Vet and white and thought “hey, let’s eat with this guy” and got bit in his ass.

    you know what they say about what happens when you “assume”.. you make an “ass” out of “u & me” except in this case Romney is the only one who’s made to look like an ass.

  16. 16.

    The Moar You Know

    Romney…Jesus, what a fuckup. This is a no-brainer, and he can’t do it.

    Maybe he’s autistic. He really doesn’t get “human” interaction, does he?

  17. 17.

    BGinCHI

    @Raven: I was hoping you’d get here and see that dude. Fucking courage, that’s what it looks like, Mittster.

    Title of the video should be Rich Asshole meets American Serviceman.

  18. 18.

    different-church-lady

    TRIBAL IDENTITY ERROR: flag set for ‘straight rural vetran’ – should be set for ‘gay rural veteran’

  20. 20.

    Cris (without an H)

    The whole encounter is pretty uncomfortable for Romney. It’s interesting that he immediately volunteers the fact of his ministerial deferment.

    Romney:

    “I think at the time the Constitution was written, it was clear that marriage was between a man and a woman.”

    That’s some high-octane originalist doublethink, Mitt. The Constitution says nothing about marriage, so the attitude of the founders toward marriage is completely inconsequential.

    (On that note, though, the veteran also misspeaks by suggesting spousal benefits are Constitutional rights.)

  21. 21.

    Mouse Tolliver

    @TooManyJens: Yes. Yes, he is. Remember his heartless response to a wheelchair-bound man who asked Willard if he would put his doctors in jail for giving him medical marijuana? His plastic smile didn’t hide the fact that he just didn’t give a shit.

  22. 22.

    dmsilev

    Via Media Matters, Tears of a Wingnut (warning, RedState link).
    Erick Erickovich:

    And three weeks out is perhaps the perfect time for me to ask this. Have conservatives entered a suicide pact? Has the Republican Party, as a whole, done the same?

    Can someone pass Erick the FlavorAid?

  23. 23.

    Warren Terra

    I like the comparison of this guy’s service in Vietnam to Romney “serving his church” in rural France and in Paris. Especially since Romney “supported” the war in Vietnam – “supported” it from safely in Vietnam’s former colonial overlords, 8500 miles away from the jungle. Romney’s father apparently turned against the war Romney was ducking – but it’s not clear Romney himself did.

    By the way, the Mission section of Romney’s Wikipedia page is flat-out hilarious:

    In July 1966, Romney left for 30 months in France as a Mormon missionary, a traditional duty that his father and other relatives had done. He arrived in Le Havre with ideas about how to change and promote the French Mission, while facing physical and economic deprivation in their cramped quarters. Rules against drinking, smoking, and dating were strictly enforced. Like most individual Mormon missionaries, he did not gain many converts, with the nominally Catholic but secular, wine-loving French people proving especially resistant to a religion that prohibits alcohol. He became demoralized, and later recalled it as the only time when “most of what I was trying to do was rejected.” In Nantes, Romney was bruised defending two female missionaries against a horde of local rugby players. He continued to work hard; having grown up in Michigan rather than the more insular Utah world, Romney was better able to interact with the French. He was promoted to zone leader in Bordeaux in early 1968 and subsequently became assistant to the mission president in Paris, the highest position for a missionary. Romney’s support for the U.S. role in the Vietnam War was only reinforced when the French greeted him with hostility over the matter and he debated them in return. He also witnessed the May 1968 general strike and student uprisings.[

    Clearly written by some fluffer to Romney. “economic deprivation”? I’d bet not so much, though I wouldn’t bet $10,000. And note the wine-swilling drunkards of the Bordeaux, and the evil rapist thuggery of the French not-real-football player, not to mention the nod to Michigan and Romney’s ability to reach out to the common man. Also, almost poetically for the Republican reader, he was inspired to greater love of the American war in Vietnam by seeing the French despise it.
    __
    __
    PS Anyone who only saw the absurdly truncated clip TPM ran yesterday should watch the slightly more complete version in this post.

  24. 24.

    Raven

    @BGinCHI: Yea, I’ve been on it but hadn’t seen the live fire version. Check this weak shit from the Wiki:
    “Romney’s support for the U.S. role in the Vietnam War was only reinforced when the French greeted him with hostility over the matter and he debated them in return.”

    Motherfucker dodges the shit on some phoney ass “mission” and then is going to be in favor of it. What a punk.

  26. 26.

    Brachiator

    @Cris (without an H):

    Romney: “I think at the time the Constitution was written, it was clear that marriage was between a man and a woman.”

    As another poster noted, the easy reply to this is “at the time the Constitution was written, there was no Mormon Church, so I presume that your marriage should be considered invalid, Mr Romney.”

  28. 28.

    Amir Khalid

    @Veritas:
    John Cole should invite m_c and you to do a joint front-page post, where you can both discuss Mitt vs. Noot for the Republican nomination. I think it would be a fascinating conversation.

  29. 29.

    The Moar You Know

    Add on to my comment above:

    Really, this is a no-brainer. Blather some platitudes about how we may not always agree but you’ll always respect, that’s what makes America great, you’ll always stand by the troops, Gawd Bless America, thank you for your service, you’re a brave patriot. Pay for everyone’s check in the diner, tip the waitress a hunski, ask for their votes, shake everyone’s hand, including the vet, and leave. LBJ, Clinton, and Reagan could do this shit in their sleep.

    He can’t do it. Simplicity itself and he can’t do it. Is he really a insufficiently programmed robot? What the hell?

  30. 30.

    Raven

    Don’t let that fucker Gingrich off the hook either.”Gingrich avoided the Vietnam War draft through deferments because he was a student and then a father. “Given everything I believe in, a large part of me thinks I should have gone over,” he said in 1985.” Yea you fat fuck, you would have made a great fucking officer.

  31. 31.

    Veritas

    @Amir Khalid:

    Fuck Matoko_Chan/Hermoine whatever-the-fuck/AA+Bonds/Samara Morgan/Name-to-Be-Determined. She’s a fucking asperger’s retard, and in my pie filter.

    RealityCheck

  32. 32.

    Cris (without an H)

    @The Moar You Know: Romney…Jesus, what a fuckup. This is a no-brainer, and he can’t do it.

    I’m not so sure about this. Romney did get his ass handed to him, and undoubtedly had his assumptions shattered. But he did at least give Bob the Gay Veteran* a straight** answer, and stuck by it, even after he realized it wasn’t the answer he wanted.

    [*] 2012’s Joe the Plumber, with less stupid?
    [**] no pun intended

  33. 33.

    TooManyJens

    @dmsilev: That is a really weird thread. That one commenter seems to think that 1) DADT is still in place; 2) Obama wants to repeal it by executive order; and 3) Congress hasn’t acted on it.

    Just … weird.

  35. 35.

    different-church-lady

    @Cris (without an H): “I think at the time the Constitution was written, it was clear that slavery was not illegal.”

    “I think at the time the Constitution was written, it was clear that space travel was not possible.”

    “I think at the time the Constitution was written, it was clear that you had to use an outhouse if you wanted to take a crap.”

  37. 37.

    beergoggles

    At the time the constitution was written there was no Mormonism or magic underpants. So according to an originalist interpretation, Mormonism isn’t a religion and isn’t covered by the first amendment. Better hurry up on all those back taxes choad.

  39. 39.

    Amir Khalid

    @Veritas:
    I would especially look forward to seeing you two show each other this kind of respect between during the conversation.

  40. 40.

    Yevgraf

    @BGinCHI:

    “Did Newt come too early?”

    Reminds me of a joke I heard today.

    A man walks in his kitchen door after his workday, looking frazzled. “Everything at the office is so busy, I don’t know whether I’m coming or going.

    “Oh, I know the answer by looking at you. You’re going” said the wife.

    “Really?”, the husband asks. “What makes you say that?”

    His wife replies “because when you’re coming, you resemble a Down’s Syndrome kid learning to whistle”.

  45. 45.

    David in NY

    @The Moar You Know: @Raven: I’m inclined to think it wasn’t a “no brainer” either — that if Romney did anything different than what he did, he was dead with a whole segment of Republican voters. To say he “respected” the vet, or some such BS, even for his war service, would not do. Remember the audience booing the gay soldier on active duty …?

  48. 48.

    kindness

    The 30 days between now and Iowa’s first actual Caucus is too large to pin anything down.

    The things that won’t change:

    The Christian right(the Taliban for Christ folk)hate Mormans.
    The Republican fascists (the Teabaggers) hate Romney.
    Neither of these groups will come out en mass and vote for Mittens.
    The levels on both those fronts haven’t changed at all since they started polling over a year ago.

    The Establishment Repubs don’t much like Mitt but they’d take him in a pinch over Newt. The Establishment Repubs don’t run the show, even though they still think they do. Their levels haven’t changed either.

    The Esteemed Village Elders of the MSM….well they’ve shown us time and time again they will suck off which ever god forsaken person wins the Republican Nomination AND say he tasted GREAT! That sadly hasn’t changed either.

  50. 50.

    MazeDancer

    The other man in the booth across from fabulous Veteran Bob is his husband. Who is also named Bob, according to one of the hundreds of articles featuring this video.

    They look like two men anyone, anywhere, could not just know but have as neighbors. Those two change the world just by existing and not feeling they have any need to be anything other than themselves and demanding the absolute, All-American rights to do that. So wish they would star in an ad.

    And Mitt so absurdly and autobot-ly spouting that Constitutional malarky, and how the Founding Fathers were all about one man, one woman. (Unlike Mitt’s Founding Father – his great-grandfather who had 12 wives.) So since the “Founding Fathers” included slave owners, guess we have to stick with that slavery stuff, huh?

  51. 51.

    different-church-lady

    @MazeDancer:

    The other man in the booth across from fabulous Veteran Bob is his husband. Who is also named Bob

    Won’t their kids find that confusing?!? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

  57. 57.

    Redshift

    @Warren Terra:

    Clearly written by some fluffer to Romney. “economic deprivation”? I’d bet not so much, though I wouldn’t bet $10,000.

    Apparently Romney has actually used his time in France (it was a small apartment that didn’t have it’s own bathroom!) to claim that he has some understanding of the less fortunate. Really — there was video on Rachel Maddow last night, I think.

    So yeah, this was definitely written by a Romney-fluffer.

  60. 60.

    Cris (without an H)

    @BGinCHI: The DNC should make an ad with that guy.

    That would be gratifying, wouldn’t it? But I actually hope not — my offhand remark about him being a smarter Joe the Plumber must not come to pass. One, because I’m sure Bob Garon has too much integrity to become a political tool; two, because if he did, it would just make him look like a “partisan” (as though that’s bad) and his confrontation with Romney would lose some of its punch.

    BTW: here’s Bob on MSNBC.

  61. 61.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MazeDancer: (

    Unlike Mitt’s Founding Father – his great-grandfather who had 12 wives.)

    No shit? Bob is on Hardball right now for anyone near a TeeVee who’s interested.

    Watching Romney’s initial reaction, you can see the Mitt-Bot 2000 press his buttons to get the appropriate response. “Where did you serve? Thank you for your service. I was serving my church at the time”.

  62. 62.

    Redshift

    @schrodinger’s cat: It’s an attempt to have an intellectual foundation for “the Constitution means what we want it to mean,” while pretending they’re not “interpreting” it or doing anything that implies that its meaning could ever change. (That’s what those dastardly liberals do!)

    Basically, they’re channeling the ghosts of the Founding Fathers, and like all seance scams, the spirits of the dead mysteriously agree with what the medium wants.

    ETA: Or in simpler terms, it’s a combination of a seance and argument from authority. I don’t have to support my position, I just declare that a conveniently dead authority figure would agree with me, so I win.

  63. 63.

    Schlemizel

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    I was in a package store on the beltway at rush hour one night. Guy came in, bought a pint on vodka and a bottle of OJ. Clerk tossed a plastic cup into the bag. When I went out he was mixing a screwdriver on the dash.

  64. 64.

    harlana

    how hemmorhoidically awkward for Mitt

    but this guy says he was leaning towards Mitt and now he’s a disappointed independent? gimme a break

  65. 65.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    They have the fetish, and the thing is, they’re flat out wrong about just everything there is to know about the FFs.

    For example, this bullshit about the FFs being fundie asstards, just like the wingnuts, when in fact they were a bunch of Deists who basically had no use for the pious.

  67. 67.

    Raven

    Tweety had Bob on and thanked him for his service and stumbled around saying he hoped he had a fairly good time while he was there!

  68. 68.

    BGinCHI

    @Schlemizel: This is also the beginning of a half dozen Elmore Leonard novels.

    Spice it up a little. Could there be a crocodile in the back seat? How could a dead Senator’s daughter make this zing?

  69. 69.

    Redshift

    @harlana: Maybe it’s BS, but remember, there are more than a few people in the camp of “Mitt would govern as a moderate, because he doesn’t really believe all that crazy stuff.”

  71. 71.

    Rafer Janders

    @different-church-lady:

    The other man in the booth across from fabulous Veteran Bob is his husband. Who is also named Bob

    I actually know a gay couple, both named Robert, one went by Bobby, the other Rob. They adopted a kid and gave him the greatest last name: Robertson.

  73. 73.

    harlana

    i didn’t watch the last debate but i understand the cheering point this time was child labor; wonder what’s next

  74. 74.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @kindness:
    I do think we won’t know anything for sure until the primaries officially start. In fact, I’m waiting on the primaries to show us how the GOP works now. 2010 was NOT a standard primary run for the GOP, but on a national level, who knows who’s in charge now? We need to see.

  75. 75.

    Cris (without an H)

    @harlana: but this guy says he was leaning towards Mitt and now he’s a disappointed independent?

    Does he say that? What I heard was “Well I was undecided, now I’m totally convinced he won’t be MY president.” Which sounds like he wasn’t leaning Romney, but was looking for a reason to lean away from him.

  77. 77.

    Brachiator

    @MazeDancer:

    And Mitt so absurdly and autobot-ly spouting that Constitutional malarky, and how the Founding Fathers were all about one man, one woman. (Unlike Mitt’s Founding Father – his great-grandfather who had 12 wives.)

    Oooh. I forgot about that one. Damn, I wish some non-brain dead reporter would bring this up in one of the GOP debates.

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I cannot understand this Founding Father fetish that Republicans seem to have.

    I think they like the alliteration.

  78. 78.

    Djur

    @Raven:

    Motherfucker dodges the shit on some phoney ass “mission” and then is going to be in favor of it. What a punk.

    Missionary work is an old and central element of Mormonism. It has its roots in the missions to England before the church was driven west. Mormonism would have died out without missionary work in the early days, and it’s still an important (and essentially mandatory) part of being a young man in the church.

    Just because you don’t agree with his religion or his politics (I don’t either) doesn’t mean that his missionary work was “phoney” or a draft dodge. I think Romney is sincerely a Mormon. He could have converted years ago to the benefit of his political career, and I don’t believe a valueless chameleon like Mitt would have failed to do so if his religion wasn’t one of the few things he did actually believe in.

    Of course, he had plenty of time to enlist once he returned from his mission, and yet he did not.

  80. 80.

    David in NY

    @Maude: I say Cable TV.

    ED: But, actually, they’ve always been pretty stupid — just Cable has drilled the particular wingnut stupidity in really deep.

  81. 81.

    Raven

    @Djur: Guess what? I don’t give a fuck. He’s a draft dodging punk and I have friends that have been dead for 40 + years while fuckers like him shirked their duty. For him to be in support of a war that he didn’t participate in seals the deal for me.

  82. 82.

    The Moar You Know

    Let the screeching of selfish rationalization begin.

    @different-church-lady: It’s going to be entertaining.

    And needed. Even pilots have to hand off control of an airliner to the other pilot when operating the radio – the airline industry proved a long time ago that the very act of talking (hands-free or not, and an airliner’s rig is hands-free) was so distracting they didn’t want you to be doing it unless it was an emergency.

  84. 84.

    Benjamin Franklin

    “would have failed to do so if his religion wasn’t one of the few things he did actually believe in.”

    Sorry to chine in, negative, but what is the foundation of their beliefs?

    Some golden platters that only be verified by one, Joseph Smith?

  85. 85.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Raven:

    He shares that trait with the deserting coward and Darth Cheney (five exemptions, had “other priorities” than putting his precious ass on the line for a war that he thought needed to be fought, not just with his pasty white ass).

    Dogshit like this deserve no quarter.

  88. 88.

    Djur

    @Raven: You can call him a draft dodger without suggesting that his religious convictions are a fraud. He had years to enlist after he completed his mission.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @David in NY: To be fair, the connection between Tweety’s brain–itself a problematic component– and his mouth is spotty. Before he was a regular on TV, I used to read his old column in the San Francisco paper (Examiner?), and it was pretty clear and cogent, and even then it was a surprise to see the spluttering word-salad shooter on TV. And that was before Bill Clinton’s sex life caused permanent damage in his great big head.

  90. 90.

    lamh35

    @Djur:

    He believes in it so much, that he never mentions his faith and in fact goes out of his way to avoid bringing it up in discussions.

    Whatever one can say about Obama but even with the Rev Wright mess, Obama never tried to keep his faith out of discussions. In fact, some people (not myself included) probably thinks he wears his faith on his sleeve sometimes.

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    @Benjamin Franklin:

    Sorry to chine in, negative, but what is the foundation of their beliefs?

    Pretty much the same as every religion. Hocus Pocus and Razzle Dazzle.

    Some golden platters that only be verified by one, Joseph Smith?

    Seriously, Moses. Where did you really get those tablets?

  93. 93.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Djur:

    He oozes such insincerity all the time that I doubt if he has any religious convictions at all.

    Whatever is convenient, at the moment, for Mitt.

  98. 98.

    Cris (without an H)

    @Benjamin Franklin: Some golden platters that only be verified by one, Joseph Smith?

    A talking burning bush that can only be verified by one Moses?
    A resurrected rabbi attested by twelve guys?
    Dictation from the angel Gabriel?

    It’s all pretty preposterous, isn’t it? At least Buddha acknowledged it was all in his head (though some of the sutras are pretty demon-haunted too).

  99. 99.

    Djur

    @lamh35: That really isn’t true, but fine. He’s an object of hate and detestation, and he must be destroyed by any means necessary. That ( R ) after his name makes him ineligible for basic decency.

  102. 102.

    lamh35

    @Djur:

    Congressman Keith Ellison who we all know is a Muslim who’s faith is attacked almost daily, yet he does not shy away from talking about his faith either. In fact, he seems to believes in it whole-heartedly enough to ya know actually defend it and embrace his faith as a part of his identity.
    Not hide it even in the face of so much Muslim hatred.

    Romney’s exuse????

  104. 104.

    The Moar You Know

    @Djur: Questioning Mitt Romney’s faith is certainly not off-limits. He has done his damndest to run away from every opportunity to discuss it. A more cynical person than myself might think that he was trying to hide something.

  105. 105.

    Ian

    @Veritas:
    Unless Paul wins, which is increasingly likely viewing polling and organization. Given the chance of a brokered GOP convention, I see Paul and his die-hard followers doing very fell.

  107. 107.

    different-church-lady

    @The Moar You Know:

    the airline industry proved a long time ago that the very act of talking (hands-free or not, and an airliner’s rig is hands-free) was so distracting they didn’t want you to be doing it unless it was an emergency.

    Here’s what most people miss: it’s not the act of talking in and of itself that is distracting. It is the act of talking to someone who is not in the vehicle with you and has no way of sharing your priorities for operating your vehicle safely.

    We like to think that when our brains are faced with the choice of CONTROL VEHICLE vs. BE POLITE ON PHONE we’ll make the obvious choice immediately. But it doesn’t work like that — there’s a moment of confusion when our brain is being pulled in two directions at once, and that moment can be the difference between avoiding a collision and having one.

    When someone’s in the vehicle with you, they may be distracting you with their speech, but the social cues are completely different. They are seeing the same things you are. They are reacting to the same things you are reacting to. Heck, half the time they might see hazard before you do. And for some reason we don’t feel that confusion about who we’re going to pay attention to — we don’t have that split second of confusion about which space we should pay attention to, because we’re not attempting to occupy two different mental places at once.

    Anyone who wanted to pay attention to such things could have seen this 15 years ago. The fact that the airline industry takes it a step further than I have says a lot.

  108. 108.

    BGinCHI

    If the Mormon church wants to rent me a small pied-à-terre in Paris, make me ride a bicycle around to talk to French people, all for 2.5 years, all I want to know is where the fuck do I sign?

  110. 110.

    Cris (without an H)

    @matt: oh, good point, i’ll stand corrected on that. Bob could reasonably be understood to be making a 14th amendment argument there. (Implicitly; he does claim in the MSNBC interview to be “not much of a Constitutional scholar”)

  111. 111.

    lamh35

    @Djur:

    I could care less about dude being a Mormon. One of my good friends is a Mormon. Her son is right now at this moment on a mission in Costa Rica. So Mittens Mormonism isn’t even a thing for me, so sorry, not hatred here. Can’t stand his policy, religion has nothing to do with it.

    But to say that Romney doesn’t try his damndest to NOT mention or bring up his Mormonism is just false even if you refuse to aknowldege that he doe.

  112. 112.

    Mike in NC

    “Where did you serve? Thank you for your service. I was serving my church at the time”.

    Willard the Draft Dodger deserved a kick in the nuts for that one. Let’s hear him talk again about how his five sons “served their country” by working on his election campaign. Slimeball.

  113. 113.

    Djur

    @The Moar You Know: He gave a speech about it in 2007. Since the day-to-day aspects of Mormonism are more or less the same as any other Christian denomination, I don’t see why he should be expected to reference it in particular. Catholic and Protestant politicians don’t tend to make a big deal about the distinctions of their particular sects.

    Keith Ellison isn’t a reasonable comparison because he doesn’t have access to the same baseline “blah blah Christ blah blah he is risen blah loaves and fishes” pablum Christian politicians like to use when they get all faithy. He’s more reasonably compared to Jewish politicians, who also range from quiet to outspoken about their beliefs.

  116. 116.

    David in NY

    @BGinCHI: In very slight defense of Mitt, let me say that I don’t think being a Mormon missionary in France was probably much fun. (Even leaving aside the “no wine” rule.) I was in the Southwest of the country about a dozen years ago with my family, and a young fellow, white shirt, black pants, dark tie, heard us speaking American English and came over, sort of desperate looking. I brushed him off, the way I would any proselytizer, but my wife later said she thought he seemed just to want to talk to people from the States. Felt a little bad. On the other hand, could he have avoided the sales spiel? Probably not.

  118. 118.

    BGinCHI

    @David in NY: You’re right, that was the very slightest defense you could have come up with.

    Compared to getting shot at or maimed, or having to work in a factory, or picking vegetables, or being a roofer, or any number of other things people like me and millions of others did after high school, I’d take France. And I would have had to fucking pay for it. That’s not resentment. It’s the distance between a perspective that doesn’t account for others and one that does. I didn’t turn out to be a selfish asshole who want to tell everyone else how to live their life.

  120. 120.

    Ian

    @Benjamin Franklin:
    About as trustworthy as a group of imprisoned writers in Babylon writing sacred things into paper to pass the time. II do not believe golden plates any more than a burning bush talked to Moses. Would we all sit here and tolerate people ripping on Newt for being a Catholic? His Mormonism should not be an issue for those of us who believe in the freedom of religion.

    Is Romney a chickenhawk? Certainly. Did he use his religion as an excuse to avoid going to war, probably. But seeing B-J commentators devolve into ant-Mormon bigotry around here seems… antithetical of everything we trash Republicans for.

  121. 121.

    befuggled

    @different-church-lady: I agree completely, but I can tell you the Ontario ban doesn’t work for shit. I see at least 2-3 people talking on their cel phones in traffic every day, and usually one or two people blatantly texting. Last week I saw one genius texting while he was making a left turn. I wish I had my camera for that (and I should probably add that I was walking at the time).

  124. 124.

    David in NY

    @different-church-lady: I decided I’d never use a phone in the car after driving with my kids. The oldest was an avid math student, and would want to talk about a math problem, but when I thought about it, I realized that my visual brain was doing the math, not driving; sort of like a blackboard dropped in front of my eyes. I just couldn’t do it. And since then, I’ve also noticed that in certain kinds of conversations in the car, I may have to say, “Just wait a minute,” so I can just drive, then go back to talking. When you’re talking, sometimes your brain is just in another world, and that’s dangerous.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @Ian:

    Is Romney a chickenhawk? Certainly. Did he use his religion as an excuse to avoid going to war, probably. But seeing B-J commentators devolve into ant-Mormon bigotry around here seems… antithetical of everything we trash Republicans for.

    Ant-Mormon bigotry? I resemble that remark. I disdain all religions equally. And double for people who prattle that they are just … spiritual.

    But I like all kinds of ants. Including ant-Mormons.

  127. 127.

    RalfW

    @Cris (without an H):

    the veteran also misspeaks by suggesting spousal benefits are Constitutional rights

    I dunno. The Vet is saying that his spouse is entitled to the same benefits that the Congress granted to the opposite sex spouses of servicemembers. The constitution does not guarantee spousal benefits to anyone, of course, but once spousal benefits in exchange for military service were made law, then perhaps an equal protection case could be made?

    So, there may be a 14th amendment basis here. Maybe not, but I’d not be so quick to dismiss the constitutional question.

  128. 128.

    Benjamin Franklin

    Would we all sit here and tolerate people ripping on Newt for being a Catholic?

    If it was an issue that affected his policies, yes.

    I have no more respect for the Catholic Church than I do for the Mormons.

    Both are unconscionable, Property GreedHeads.

  129. 129.

    David in NY

    @BGinCHI: I think what I said was a fair response to the limited comment you made — I don’t at all disagree with your view that there were lots of worse things a person might have to do or that Mitt lacks compassion.

  131. 131.

    Raven

    @Ian: How bout blanket anti-religious bigotry? Better? And how much did they spend on their bigotry in the Prop 8 effort? spit

  132. 132.

    goblue72

    @The Moar You Know: The GOP lost the right to complain about making religion an issue on the Presidential campaign trail when they made Obama’s church pastor into a national issue on the cable TV news and forced a Presidential candidate to get on national TV and essentially apologize for his choice of house of worship. (Course, in typical Obama style, he turned the trumped-up controversy back on his attackers and kicked them in the teeth.)

    So fuck Mitt Romney and fuck the homophobic Mormon Church and fuck their closed-doors funding of Proposition 8.

  135. 135.

    Ian

    @Brachiator:
    Lol. My bad, my spelling sucks. I just get angry when I see otherwise reasonable or intelligent people do such seemingly confusing things.

  137. 137.

    Veritas

    It’s funny to see liberals vigorously condemn every religion except Islam, which they will defend, even though its a religion where women’s rights come at the end of a whip and where gay rights come at the end of a sharp blade or a large stone.

  138. 138.

    Cris (without an H)

    @Ian: But seeing B-J commentators devolve into ant-Mormon bigotry around here seems… antithetical of everything we trash Republicans for.

    This needs to be said, and I’ll note that we occasionally devolve into some Catholic bashing too when it comes to the abuses of the clergy.

    But it’s complicated. It’s one thing to shout anti-Mormon smears at a BYU game (which, as a Lobo, I blushingly admit to have done as a stupider, younger person). That’s uncalled for; the religion of the Cougars is immaterial to their basketball performance.

    But when we’re talking about politicians, it’s not crazy to expect that if they’re an active member of an organization with a documented history of abuse, or denial of science, or disregard for equality, that this is going to impact their political philosophy.

    So I’m not saying anti-Mormon bigotry is justified. I’m just saying, it’s part of a slippery slope. We need to draw a distinction between objecting to a politician’s religiously-informed positions, and objecting to their religion, and it’s not as easy as it should be.

  139. 139.

    mangrilla

    In regards to Doug J’s Brownshirt call to arms last night: This is the way it’s done. Not through intimidation, just asking the right questions at the right time.

    Now imagine a video of Doug J sneaking behind his parents in order to call Fareed Zakaria a motherfucker.

    I wonder which one gains more traction and moves the issue in the right direction.

  140. 140.

    MikeJ

    @Cris (without an H): If somebody told me they thought a dead Jew from Palestine had come to North America and convinced the natives that they were actually related to a monster from outer space, and that if they were good when they died they would get to become a monster from outer space and rule a whole planet, I would think they were batshit insane and not capable of leading the US.

  141. 141.

    Djur

    @MikeJ: So instead you’re content with the country being led by men who think that “dead Jew from Palestine” was put in his mother by a space monster, and is also that same space monster, and that he was killed but then came back with his magic powers and then went back to space?

  142. 142.

    Raven

    I’ve thought about it long and hard and realize I have made an awful mistake. Bob was MACV not the 25th ID. The horror.

  143. 143.

    Benjamin Franklin

    @Cris (without an H): If somebody told me they thought a dead Jew from Palestine had come to North America and convinced the natives that they were actually related to a monster from outer space, and that if they were good when they died they would get to become a monster from outer space and rule a whole planet, I would think they were batshit insane and not capable of leading the US.

    bwaaaaaaaaa…….

    http://battlefieldearth.warnerbros.com/

  144. 144.

    Brachiator

    @Veritas:

    It’s funny to see liberals vigorously condemn every religion except Islam, which they will defend, even though its a religion where women’s rights come at the end of a whip and where gay rights come at the end of a sharp blade or a large stone.

    Let me repeat. I don’t particularly give a rat’s ass about any religion. I will make an exception for yours, and especially disdain it, since it obviously churns out idiots.

  151. 151.

    Benjamin Franklin

    Atheism is the lack of belief, not a belief, so actually it doesn’t take any faith at all.

    Let’s start with a basic truism; If ‘truth’ does not exist, then the fact that it doesn’t exist is true; negating the theorem.

    For someone to look at the visible world and conclude there is no basis for a ‘first cause’ is not only illogical, it is fallacious.

  152. 152.

    Egg Berry

    @Benjamin Franklin:

    For someone to look at the visible world and conclude there is no basis for a ‘first cause’ is not only illogical, it is fallacious.

    If God exists, he is one lazy, cruel mo-fo.

  154. 154.

    Benjamin Franklin

    If God exists, he is one lazy, cruel mo-fo.

    Not cruel. Indifferent. Like nature. Stop anthropomorphizing.

  155. 155.

    Cris (without an H)

    @Djur: That’s the thing. Our current President, who I consider eminently qualified to lead this country, appears to believe in that preposterous story. Meanwhile, Veritas claims to be atheist and yet is clearly an idiot. There doesn’t appear to be a direct correlation between religious belief and intellect.

  159. 159.

    Joel

    I don’t know what’s more painful, Willard pushing through the implicit question about his military service, or his trying to brush off the gay marriage question.

  161. 161.

    different-church-lady

    @Veritas: When we start pulling the Tim Tebows of the world off of airplanes because they look wrong and pray in public then you might start to have a point worth listening to.

    Until then you can continue right on with your regular specious prattling.

  162. 162.

    different-church-lady

    @befuggled: Well, that’s the difference between the law and enforcement of the law, ain’t it?

    I suppose one thing would be greater penalties for drivers who actually cause crashes. Not that I’m really into the punitive side of things for punishment’s sake.

  165. 165.

    DW

    @Veritas: I took the liberty of looking at those polls and I’m a little confused to how the situation is improving for Mitts. The only person surging is Ron Paul – that’s who Gingrich’s most recent lead is over. In the oldest poll, Mitt is tied for second and 15 points behind Gingrich. In the latest he’s in fourth and still 15 points behind Gingrich. He has also lost 1/3 of his support – proportionately worse than Gingrich. Not sure that counts as progress.

  166. 166.

    Porlock Junior

    @MazeDancer:

    The other man in the booth across from fabulous Veteran Bob is his husband. Who is also named Bob…

    Confusing. Guess we’ll just call them both Bruce.

  167. 167.

    Surly Duff

    @Warren Terra:

    I love Romney:
    “When did you serve? Oh, we are the same age! I know what that must have been like. While you were fighting a war that resulted in hundreds of thousands of U.S casualties and the death of millions in Vietnam, ducking bullets and praying to see another day, I was debating some Frnch people at the Sorbonne and ducking insults whilst riding my bike along the Seine. We have practically lived the same life”

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