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You are here: Home / The Quick and Dirty on the Payroll Taxcut Standoff

The Quick and Dirty on the Payroll Taxcut Standoff

by Imani Gandy (ABL)|  December 19, 20113:30 pm| 98 Comments

This post is in: Our Failed Political Establishment

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Orange Julius can’t control his caucus… still.

Mitch McConnell made a payroll taxcut deal that was slated to pass the House. Boehner was cool with the deal. McConnell and Harry Reid high-fived. Harry Reid adjourned the Senate. Boehner called the deal a “good deal” and a “victory.” Then, this morning, Boehner did an about-face. He has rejected the deal and put the screws to the middle class — again.

Of course, Boehner now wants the Senate to return to Washington and renegotiate. Harry Reid isn’t having it though. In a statement released today, he said,

“My House colleagues should be clear on what their vote means today. If Republicans vote down the bipartisan compromise negotiated by Republican and Democratic leaders, and passed by 89 senators including 39 Republicans, their intransigence will mean that in ten days, 160 million middle class Americans will see a tax increase, over two million Americans will begin losing their unemployment benefits, and millions of senior citizens on Medicare could find it harder to receive treatment from physicians.

“Senator McConnell and I negotiated a compromise at Speaker Boehner’s request. I will not re-open negotiations until the House follows through and passes this agreement that was negotiated by Republican leaders, and supported by 90 percent of the Senate.

Here’s Steve Benen:

As for Boehner’s demand that policymakers work on a year-long extension, instead of a two-month extension, Reid said Democrats would continue to work on this goal, just as soon as the House approves this short-term measure and gives policymakers time to work on a new agreement. Another Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, said something similar on MSNBC earlier.

Senate Dems, in other words, are trying to, in effect, “jam” House Republicans — they passed a bill and left, giving the lower chamber a choice between passing the Senate bill or raising taxes on 160 million Americans.

Complicating matters a bit, some Senate Republicans are siding with Dems on this, telling House Republicans to cut the nonsense and pass the extension.

The next move will probably be a House vote on the Senate bill, which Republican leaders expect to fail. Indeed, that’s largely the point — they’re bringing it to the floor so GOP members can kill it and send a message to the Senate that the bipartisan compromise isn’t far enough to the right.

(read the rest)

Benen has some interesting analysis about whether or not 26 Republicans will break rank and vote for the deal anyway. His guess is no. My guess is no. Republicans have proven time and time again that they just don’t give a fuck. Republicans seem to think that Americans will blame President Obama for the gridlock, and that such blame will inure to their benefit. We’ll see, I guess.

Whatever the outcome, Boehner will probably claim that he got 98% of what he wanted and then go cry himself in a bottle of single-malt.

Orange Julius cannot handle his business. Nancy Smash! should ask for her gavel back.

[via Washington Monthly; and Talking Points Memo]

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Reader Interactions

98Comments

  1. 1.

    Liz

    December 19, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Oh that picture.

  2. 2.

    JPL

    December 19, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    MSM will blame Obama.

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 19, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Is John Boner a powerless twit? Yes.

    Is Eric Cantor an asshole who deserves an entire sleigh full of coal to be dumped on his worthless ass? Yes.

    Are the teabagger dumbfucks in the House determined to give Obama the greatest landslide since LBJ? It appears so.

  4. 4.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    December 19, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    The AOS isn’t much of a leader. We knew this, and now it’s getting obvious to more people.

  5. 5.

    patroclus

    December 19, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    I think it’ll take a few more than 26 brave House Republicans to pass the Senate bill. There’ll be a handful of Dems taking the Bernie Sanders view (cutting the payroll tax partially defunds Social Security) and 1-2 conservadems voting with Boner. I think they’ll need 30-35 Republicans and like Benen, my guess is that they won’t even come close to that.

    Thanks for the tax increase Republicans!

  6. 6.

    Hungry Joe

    December 19, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Well, we have to wrest the gavel from The Orange One’s hands, if Nancy Smash! is to get it back. The question remains — to paraphrase George II — “Is our voters learning?”

  7. 7.

    ShadeTail

    December 19, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    I read Mr. Benen’s article earlier. I think this is an interesting reversal on the usual business. People always say that the *Senate* is where legislation goes to die.

  8. 8.

    Zifnab

    December 19, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Remember when we were all bitching at the Senate for putting the House’s nuts in a vice back in ’09 and ’10, but we shrugged and conceded that the Senate is necessarily dysfunctional and the Lower House doesn’t have the leverage to push around the upper?

    I guess we get to find out if that’s bullshit or not.

  9. 9.

    Dr. Squid

    December 19, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    @JPL: MM will blame Obama.

  10. 10.

    Dr. Squid

    December 19, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Does that stand for “Alcoholic Orange Satan”?

  11. 11.

    Schlemizel

    December 19, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    WAIT! If there are Senate Republicans publicly siding with the Dems today that may be a first in the last 18 years! Oh sure, when the Dems bend over and kiss ass on some POS the GOP will give lip service to bipartisanship but I honestly cannot think of a time since 1992 when Republicans in any numbers sided with the Dems against their wingnut masters.

    These bastards are trying to give me hope, I hate that!

  12. 12.

    jayboat

    December 19, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Popcorn for everyone!

  13. 13.

    Corbin Dallas Multipass

    December 19, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    All 3 content links point to tpmdc besides nancy smash, and not the one that says “read the rest” of the blockquote “here’s steve benen” which if I clicked on it I would expect to I dunno maybe just possibly take me to steve benen, but no I have to wait for one of the two citations at the bottom.

    It’s really jarring when links don’t take me where they contextually lead me to believe I’m going to go. You have four links to the same frigging article – I’m guessing a few could have been left out. I hate being a dick/jerk/asshole but if my neurotic brain demands I complain. Please practice good netiquette. If it helps me not seem like such a dick, I promise I mostly love your blog posts.

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    December 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Boehner’s pretty fucked, no matter what. Say that enough Republican reps decide that they’re not going down with the RMS Teatanic and vote with the majority of Dems to pass the Senate Bill. I’d give it about 30 minutes before Erik Cantor starts planning a coup. On the other hand, if there aren’t enough vaguely sane Reps to pass the bill, it will be “House Republican reject bipartisan Senate bill; taxes to go up next week”.

    Of course they could try to pass something and negotiate with the Senate, but we all know that anything that passes will be larded up with partisan poison pills, and also the Senate has scattered to the four winds without any immediate plans to reconvene. Good luck convincing several dozen prima donnas that they should cut their vacations short because some fanatics threw a hissy fit.

  15. 15.

    B W Smith

    December 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    @Schlemizel: Last I heard, it was just Scottie Brown and Richard Lugar that had kind of taken the Dem side. Brown, more forcefully, because of Elizabeth Warren kicking his ass in polls.

  16. 16.

    kindness

    December 19, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    @JPL: No they won’t. They’ll try but once they see polls showing Americans think Republicans are dicks, they’ll start agreeing with the polls.

  17. 17.

    Liberty60

    December 19, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    160 million middle class Americans will see a tax increase, over two million Americans will begin losing their unemployment benefits, and millions of senior citizens on Medicare could find it harder to receive treatment from physicians

    Or as the Republicans see it, a win-win!

  18. 18.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    December 19, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    @Dr. Squid: I’ve always referred to him as the Actual Orange Satan, in fact. Though your version is just as accurate. He was known as a womanizing boozer in the Ohio statehouse, and I suspect not much has changed.

  19. 19.

    Dave

    December 19, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Never thought I would see the GOP willingly own a tax increase. The 2012 ads write themselves…

  20. 20.

    BGinCHI

    December 19, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Has Cantor made any public statements about this? Who is driving the opposition?

  21. 21.

    gaz

    December 19, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    OT

    I wish I could unsee this:
    http://wonkette.com/458480/sadness-of-vaclav-havels-death-lightened-by-kim-jong-ils-death#more-458480

    And I was gonna eat lunch…

    oh well.

  22. 22.

    Guster

    December 19, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    @BGinCHI: Kevin Drum. Every time he writes that a compromise isn’t that bad, the Republicans freak out.

  23. 23.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    From a hilarious Onion article:

    “I don’t think I can vote for someone like that,” Pennsylvania Republican Eric Tolbert said. “He says he’s sorry, but how do I know that’s the real Mitt Romney? What happens if he gets elected and tries to help sick people again?”
    __
    “I like Michele Bachmann now,” Tolbert added. “Because what this country needs is a president who doesn’t give a fuck about helping people.

  24. 24.

    azlib

    December 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    Bets on whether the MSM will finally see the House Republicans as simply insane?

  25. 25.

    wrb

    December 19, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    MSM will present it as “House Republicans stand firm for one year tax cut instead of the Democrat supported two month tax cut.”

  26. 26.

    The Moar You Know

    December 19, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Obama can’t lose for winning. Even the MSM is reporting this as straight-up Republican intransigence.

    “Republicans raise your taxes”

    “The Republican tax increase”

    Here ya go Dems, a gift from the GOP laid out all pretty on a silver platter for you.

  27. 27.

    Mnemosyne

    December 19, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    @gaz:

    I hate you now.

  28. 28.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 19, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    This is the second time in six months that Boehner has publicly agreed to a deal only to have his ass handed to him by the TP caucus, and I just turned off the TV where he was up there acting for all the world as if it were his idea to reject it (turned it off when Luke Russert’s smarmy grin floated on to the screen, I’m sure he’s now explaining how this makes both parties look bad)

    As with Romney, I’m fascinated by the way ambition cancels out even the last shred of dignity.

  29. 29.

    handsmile

    December 19, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    @dmsilev: (#14)

    Boehner being f*cked is always a joy to behold (at least metaphorically). But “if there aren’t enough vaguely sane Reps to pass the bill,” I fear it will more likely be ‘Senate Dems refuse to cancel vacations; taxes to go up next week.’

    That’s how the Village media prefers to assign responsibility.

  30. 30.

    Finn13

    December 19, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Get ready for a White House caving-in party! Just like last time. Bipartisanship!

  31. 31.

    Keith G

    December 19, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Thank heavens for Boehner. The Prez and Dems in the Senate quietly agree to compromises (actually, giveaways – Boo) that never should have been made, the cake gets put into the oven, Boehner allows his caucus to blow up the kitchen.

    The idiots can’t seem to take “Yes please” for an answer.

  32. 32.

    Hill Dweller

    December 19, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Lost is this most recent stage of winger clusterfuckism is the fact Republicans are demanding a tax cut be paid for. Have these Laffer curve citing know-nothings ever done that before?

  33. 33.

    Violet

    December 19, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    @Dave:

    Never thought I would see the GOP willingly own a tax increase. The 2012 ads write themselves…

    They sure do…
    “Obama presides over first major tax increase in a decade.”
    “Obama’s Dems refuse Republican compromise; taxes to increase.”
    “Senate Dems refuse to miss Christmas vacation; taxes increase as a result.”

    Etc.

  34. 34.

    BGinCHI

    December 19, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    @Guster: Prolly he’ll blame it on his cats. That’s how he rolls.

    I honestly think the GOP is trying to lose the House. Like maybe it’s just too much work for them for that kind of salary.

  35. 35.

    Redshift

    December 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    @dmsilev: Not to mention that Boehner has just proven that even if they come back and negotiate a conference, he can’t deliver the votes for it unless it’s “everything we want and nothing you want.”

    The bill the Senate passed was the result of a compromise that Boehner was involved in. No one has any reason to take him seriously when he issues further demands.

  36. 36.

    Waldo

    December 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    @The Moar You Know: If that’s the narrative that emerges, I don’t see how Boner holds onto his job. So let’s hope.

  37. 37.

    Dave

    December 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    The other thing about this, should the House vote it down, is that the GOP loses their one bread-and-butter campaign angle: they don’t raise your taxes. They’ve been hammering that for 30+ years. If this happens, that is gone and they cannot get that “credibility” back again. The House Tea Party GOP is suicidal in so many ways it boggles the mind…

  38. 38.

    Suffern ACE

    December 19, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    @handsmile: Yep. Was watching the talking head doing a “News Story” about “How much vacation time the Congress actually takes.” I very pressing story for five minutes past the hour, don’t you think?

  39. 39.

    Keith G

    December 19, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    @Corbin Dallas Multipass:

    It’s really jarring when links don’t take me where they contextually lead me to believe I’m going to go.

    It’s an ongoing problem. Netiquette? Are you high?

  40. 40.

    Redshift

    December 19, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    @Hill Dweller: Rarely. (Apparently Gingrich did it once during his reign of terror.) And at the same time they’re demanding that this tax cut be paid for, they’re still demanding that the Bush tax cuts be made permanent without offsetting cuts.

  41. 41.

    Judas Escargot

    December 19, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    I honestly think the GOP is trying to lose the House.

    They’re betting that they won’t get blamed or pay any price for their actions this time, either.

    And while past performance never guarantees future results, I can’t say I blame them for assuming that.

    We’ll see.

  42. 42.

    Dave

    December 19, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    @Violet: I don’t see it that way. Even the MSM, myopic as it is, can see this is a case of GOP intransigence. The headline on abcnews right now? “Boehner Rejects Bipartisan Senate Bill”. Not saying they’ll all be like that, but the facts are pretty obvious in this case.

  43. 43.

    Davis X. Machina

    December 19, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    @Dave: Doesn’t matter. Not when “suicidal” means carrying a CD 54-46% that you used to carry 61-39%. You’re still re-elected.

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    December 19, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    @Corbin Dallas Multipass:

    I lurves me some ABL, but she needs someone to do the coding on her posts for her.

  45. 45.

    gaz

    December 19, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    @Mnemosyne: hey, at least I *warned* you.

    Besides, the good people at Wonkette deserve your ire.

    =P

    Such a debased and disgusting photoshop job would have never occurred to me before I saw this, I swear.

    Now I have to divide my life into the time *before* I saw that photo, and the time since.

    Arghh

    =P

  46. 46.

    Redshift

    December 19, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    @Suffern ACE: The sad thing is that for a congressperson who actually cares what their constituents think, time during recesses isn’t just “vacation”; it’s actually part of the job. Good ones have public events and office hours back home (some of which are self-promoting, to be sure, but they still hear from constituents.) But to our self-important newsbots, it’s all “I can’t wait to get out of town and go on vacation.”

  47. 47.

    The Moar You Know

    December 19, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    If that’s the narrative that emerges, I don’t see how Boner holds onto his job. So let’s hope.

    @Waldo: Well, that fits in with my theory that this is just Cantor planting yet another knife in Boehner’s back. As Redshift notes above, Boehner has no negotiating ability left – he says he has the votes, and then suddenly, he doesn’t. And now everyone knows. Once would have been an anomaly. Two, now he’s done.

  48. 48.

    jl

    December 19, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Benen says

    “Senate Dems, in other words, are trying to, in effect, “jam” House Republicans”

    No. Johnny Bones, the two bit strawboss and tinpot political hood, the powerless and disrespected putative leader of the House authorized the very broad outlines of an acceptable deal. The Senate delivered. The House GOP bucked poor ol’ Johnny Bones, again.

    Edit: in other words, the House leadership is acting in bad faith, and in terms two bit wardheelers might understand, finked out. In other words, Johnny Bones lied today, for all practical purposes, and will probably be lying all day today every time he opens his mouth.

    When the House leadership said, ahead of time, without any working arrangement with the Senate, that they would pass something and then go home, that was an attempted jam.

  49. 49.

    JPL

    December 19, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Local news..house republicans want year long deal…
    What’s at stake is a tax hike for 160 million Americans.
    Sen. Reid won’t talk about long term unless the republicans vote for two month extension..

    Yeah…house republicans want year long deal…sure!
    edit..so who is the blame? how would you interpret this coverage

  50. 50.

    Ben Cisco

    December 19, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    @Keith G:
    __

    Thank heavens for Boehner. The Prez and Dems in the Senate quietly agree to compromises (actually, giveaways – Boo) that never should have been made, the cake gets put into the oven, Boehner allows his caucus to blow up the kitchen.
    __
    The idiots can’t seem to take “Yes please” for an answer.

    Almost like somebody saw that coming.

  51. 51.

    Redshift

    December 19, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    @Waldo: I don’t see Cantor sticking the shiv in before the next election. He may not be very bright or knowledgeable on any area of policy, but he does seem to have good political instincts, and I’m sure he’d rather let Boehner continue to be the fall guy for the 9% approval rating until then. He doesn’t want to take over as Speaker just in time for Obama to be re-elected and/or the GOP to lose the House.

  52. 52.

    wrb

    December 19, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Local news..house republicans want year long deal…

    Thats how it sounded in a fragment I caught from NPR

  53. 53.

    bemused

    December 19, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    I still can’t fathom how a guy who sobs, blubbering, hiccuping, at the drop of a hat got to be speaker. And he’s been doing this long before he has had his butt kicked over and over again by the teaparty house. What a headcase.

  54. 54.

    SenyorDave

    December 19, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    @azlib: never. never, nevern, nerver, because both sides do it.

  55. 55.

    Redshift

    December 19, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    @JPL: I’d give it a little longer. Sounds to me just like typical he-said-she-said news, reporting nothing larger than what each leader just said, rather than making it a narrative.

    (Not to say that they won’t make that the narrative, just that it’s too soon to tell.)

  56. 56.

    eemom

    December 19, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    can we take a break from giving a shit what the emmessemm spin is if the polls show that not even Americans are THAT stupid? Pretty please?

  57. 57.

    daveNYC

    December 19, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    In fairness to Bohner, I’m not sure anyone could convince the House Republicans to not be pants-on-head retarded.

  58. 58.

    gf120581

    December 19, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    @bemused: Boner kind of stumbled into the leadership post by accident and circumstances. He became Majority Leader after DeLay fell because the GOP wanted someone “clean” and he supposedly fit the bill (never mind that this is the guy who once got in trouble for handing out tobacco checks on the House floor). Then, of course, he became House GOP leader after they lost the majority and Hastert resigned and somehow kept the job after 2008 because no one else wanted it. And therefore he became the Speaker after 2010 because, hey, he was the leader and the GOP didn’t want to have a big nasty leadership fight to spoil their victory.

    Boner’s gotten where he is because he’s non-threatening, kinda goofy and easy to manipulate. But now that he’s clearly shown his incompetence and ineffeciency and since he’s got a Majority Leader chomping at the bit to become #1, it’s a question of how long he can hold on.

  59. 59.

    burnspbesq

    December 19, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    @daveNYC:

    In fairness to Bohner, I’m not sure anyone could convince the House Republicans to not be pants-on-head retarded.

    In fairness to Boehner, if he can’t control his caucus on this he should be forced to deliver the eulogy at every funeral of every person who starves or freezes to death after their unemployment benefits run out.

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    December 19, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    @dmsilev:

    I’d give it about 30 minutes before Erik Cantor starts planning a coup.

    I think you’re at least 11 months behind. Cantor has been planning his coup since Boehner became Speaker, and possibly since it started looking as if he might become Speaker. He’s the kind of weaselly backstabber who gives traitors a bad name.

  61. 61.

    Chuck Butcher

    December 19, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    I’ve been thinking about how this’ll play in OR2, nicely red, not in the least purple. A heck of a lot of people will go, “what tax break?” considering the $20 or less per wk they hadn’t noticed or attributed to govt. A good sized lot will immediately assign fault to Ds with no info. There might be a couple here and there that botherd to know something about it who aren’t Ds that’ll wonder WTF?

    There aren’t many low info don’t give a damn Ds out here so that group isn’t going to be deluded. Rep Greg Walden OR2-R will pay no price whatever his vote on this. I’m not betting which way he’ll swing – he’s a head down never show type of party line guy so Cantor v Orange will present him with … difficulties. He is more Right than most around here credit.

  62. 62.

    chopper

    December 19, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    every so often reid finds his balls, before he misplaces them again.

  63. 63.

    Martin

    December 19, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Blow it up.

    Seriously, the incentives in Congress are designed to kill it as an institution. Instead of fucking around, let’s accept that it’s now designed to fail, destroy the institution, and build something in its place. The solutions can all fit within the current Constitution, more or less, but the internal House and Senate rules need to go and be rewritten along with the campaign laws. If someone should set a match to the place to drive the point home, I think most of us will get over the pain of an extensive remodel.

  64. 64.

    sherifffruitfly

    December 19, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    I blame Obama.

    i kan haz teevee show nao???

    and a PAC???

  65. 65.

    Emerald

    December 19, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    @azlib: Unpossible. They didn’t give up their Both Sides Do It meme when the Rs nearly crashed the entire world economy. This little fight about starting a new recession ain’t gonna enlighten ’em.

  66. 66.

    ericblair

    December 19, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    @gf120581:

    Boner kind of stumbled into the leadership post by accident and circumstances.

    This happens much more often than our Lords and Masters would care to admit. Exhibit A is the last 30 or so years of corporate (mis)governance.

    But now that he’s clearly shown his incompetence and ineffeciency and since he’s got a Majority Leader chomping at the bit to become #1, it’s a question of how long he can hold on.

    I suppose it would depend on whether the House goopers think this sucker’s going down or not. If so, keep Oompa-Loompa around to go down with the ship. If not, install Great Teatard Hope to boldly continue and expand their monstrously popular policies.

  67. 67.

    Thoughtcrime

    December 19, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    “Both sides do it” isn’t playing too well anymore:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/15/1045734/-New-Pew-Poll:-Republican-Party-Seen-as-Extreme-and-Uncompromising-

  68. 68.

    daveNYC

    December 19, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    @burnspbesq: Eulogy? More like a shrill rant about how all those dead people are going to be used to vote for Democrats and it’s all part of ACORN’s plan for world domination.

  69. 69.

    bemused

    December 19, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    @gf120581: @gf120581:

    They evidently weren’t concerned about Boehner’s drinking and uncontrollable blubbering. Then again, why would they be when their base and media don’t seem to be interested. It only matters if the speaker is a Dem.

  70. 70.

    centerfielddj

    December 19, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Martin, if your recommendation were accepted to “destroy the institution”, what would be your vision for the solutions which can all fit within the current Constitution? What are the chances that your solutions would be the ones implemented?

    Ask yourself: if Congress were destroyed, what class would be in the best position to take advantage and get their interests served?

    Pity you wouldn’t give a shit about the suffering and dead people who could be created by “the pain of an extensive remodel”.

  71. 71.

    agrippa

    December 19, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    The GOP has 239 House seats. 218 is a majority.
    Democrats get 219, Pelosi is elected Speaker.

  72. 72.

    Chuck Butcher

    December 19, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    @agrippa:
    Twenty-one seats is a lot to get. Then your question is what did you get in those twenty-one seats? Im not getting real damn hopeful at this stage.

  73. 73.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    December 19, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    OT:

    The wife just asked me if there were any messages on our phone that I wanted to keep. I told her no and asked why she was asking me this. She told me that our new nine week old kitten erased all of them.

    Stewie is adapting to his new home very nicely.

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    December 19, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    @centerfielddj:

    Not to speak for Martin, but I can think of one extensive remodel that would be (relatively) painless for the little people: increase the number of representatives in the House. Right now, each member of the House represents about 650,000 people, which is ridiculous. The number hasn’t been increased since 1911, when each House member represented about 215,000 people. It’s absolutely insane that we have so few members of the House proportional to our population.

  75. 75.

    Anne Laurie

    December 19, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    @Dave:

    The headline on abcnews right now? “Boehner Rejects Bipartisan Senate Bill”. Not saying they’ll all be like that, but the facts are pretty obvious in this case.

    To be followed by tomorrow’s headline: “GOP Caucus Explains Boehner is Actually A Democrat”.

  76. 76.

    Mnemosyne

    December 19, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Yes, our Annie is very fond of erasing our messages and always knows the exact button to push.

    For a while, she had figured out how to turn on the TV, but she stopped doing it when we weren’t leaving it on TCM enough for her liking.

  77. 77.

    Martin

    December 19, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    @centerfielddj:

    Martin, if your recommendation were accepted to “destroy the institution”, what would be your vision for the solutions which can all fit within the current Constitution? What are the chances that your solutions would be the ones implemented?

    The Constitution says very little about the nature and structure of the institution. It talks about powers and representation, and nothing about internal rules, campaigning, and so on. There’s a fuckton of accepted rules and conventions surrounding Congress (and the Presidency) that have never been tested in the courts. I would welcome some things being tested about now.

    Ask yourself: if Congress were destroyed, what class would be in the best position to take advantage and get their interests served?

    The same population that are currently blowing up Congress. Let’s at least have this debate in the open light of day, rather than on K Street as it is now.

    Pity you wouldn’t give a shit about the suffering and dead people who could be created by “the pain of an extensive remodel”.

    Really? That’s the position you really think I hold after commenting here for 4+ years? There’s already quite a decent amount of suffering and dead people in this country due to the lack of a remodel. Some of that is inescapable under any arrangement, but I’m now of the mind that the risk of doing and having Congress grind this nation to a complete halt is greater than the risk of doing something. You seem to think that at least half of those elected officials in Congress are not only willing, but actually eager to fuck over the 60% of Americans that aren’t instrumental in their re-election. I hate to tell you – if they could find a way to neutralize the optics of tossing 180 million carefully selected Americans into woodchippers, they’d do it in a heartbeat and go on the Sunday shows to brag about how they’re willing to make the adult decisions.

  78. 78.

    Davis X. Machina

    December 19, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Some of my ‘true progressive’ friends are convinced that there should be fewer reps, because they’re all useless and corrupt anyways, so fewer is better, and none of them should be paid, because they’re all millionaires anyways.

    In other words, because Congress isn’t working, the answer is two Senates, just with one less unrepresentative than the other.

    Silliness is bipartisan, sometimes.

  79. 79.

    gaz

    December 19, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    @Davis X. Machina: I’m down with fewer reps if it were a result of bringing state representation in line with the states population. =)

    (If that meant increasing overall representation I’m cool with that, too)

    But it’d be nice if it were at least roughly based on # of heads

  80. 80.

    Chuck Butcher

    December 19, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    I’m trying to picture 830 Reps. I’m thinking “ugly” might be the caption…

    I’m also intimately aware that it takes 2/3 of the state of Oregon to make up OR2 (of 5). That is more sq mi than any state E of the Mississippi R. in a state with 5 CDs.

  81. 81.

    Chuck Butcher

    December 19, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    @gaz:

    I’m down with fewer reps if it were a result of bringing state representation in line with the states population. =)

    Huh? Census? Are you referring to the Senate? A state is guaranteed 1 Rep.

  82. 82.

    RAM

    December 19, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    I will not re-open negotiations.

    We are so fucked.

  83. 83.

    gaz

    December 19, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    @Chuck Butcher: oops. I was thinking of the senate.

    my god.

    i think i overstepped my brain-fart quota for one day.

  84. 84.

    Roger Moore

    December 19, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    The number hasn’t been increased since 1911, when each House member represented about 215,000 people. It’s absolutely insane that we have so few members of the House proportional to our population.

    Note also that this would have the beneficial effect of reducing the overrepresentation of small states in the Electoral College. The small states would still be overrepresented, but not by anything like the ~3x that the smallest states are today.

  85. 85.

    Mnemosyne

    December 19, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    @Chuck Butcher:

    I’m trying to picture 830 Reps. I’m thinking “ugly” might be the caption…

    Can’t get much uglier than what we already have, methinks. It would dilute the power of each individual Rep, though, so the chances of actually getting that change are extremely slim since they would have to vote to reduce their own power.

  86. 86.

    dogwood

    December 19, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    @Martin:

    Hey, Martin – that’s twice today you’ve been the victim of drive-by commentary.

  87. 87.

    Jennifer

    December 19, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Harry Reid to House Republicans and Weepy John: “Frankly, you dorks, I don’t give a damn.”

  88. 88.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    December 19, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Nothing like having a cat familiar with tech! Ok, maybe Toonces took it a bit far. ;)

    Teh kitteh is sacked out on the couch having exhausted himself on our phone…

    and my shoelaces, socks, shorts, couch, chairs, rug, stuffed dog, the base of the chair at my desk and everything else that looked like it needed a kitten on it.

  89. 89.

    Cat Lady

    December 19, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    If cats had thumbs.

  90. 90.

    Martin

    December 19, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    @dogwood: I’m used to it. I also have a habit of killing discussions dead.

  91. 91.

    CT Voter

    December 19, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    @B W Smith: And Heller (Nevada) and one of the Bobsey twins from Maine.

  92. 92.

    Suffern ACE

    December 19, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    @Martin: What type of slag are you?

    Hope the posts mean that you’ve gotten over the hump of the work burden.

  93. 93.

    dogwood

    December 19, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    @Martin:

    Nah, don’t be so hard on yourself. You’re one of the good guys around here. That’s what made those two random attacks so amusing to me.

  94. 94.

    B W Smith

    December 19, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    @CT Voter: Thanks, I did see that after my post. Several tea party reps held a news conference this afternoon where they belittled Senate Republicans. The tea party reps spent a while explaining why re-election and going home for the holidays meant nothing to them. I sure hope their constituents take them at their word next fall.

  95. 95.

    The Moar You Know

    December 19, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    @dogwood: Don’t think that the contingent of ratfuckers on this site haven’t made careful note of who the effective posters are.

  96. 96.

    priscianusjr

    December 19, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    @Finn13:

    Get ready for a White House caving-in party! Just like last time. Bipartisanship!

    Something is happening, and you don’t know what it is, do you, Mr Finn?

  97. 97.

    priscianusjr

    December 19, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    @RAM:

    We are so fucked.

    What you mean “we”?
    You Tea Party or something?

  98. 98.

    Ronbo

    December 20, 2011 at 12:07 am

    This post is like dating a dry drunk. The Obama juice just doesn’t feel sincere or honest. Sober up. Post when it actually means something (other than us vs. them – we KNOW the Dems and Repubs work together to achieve their masters objective).

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