House Republicans on Thursday crumpled under the weight of White House and public pressure and have agreed to pass a two-month extension of the payroll-tax cut, Republican and Democratic sources told National Journal.
I think this is neither a “game-changing” Democratic victory (as most are saying) or good news for Mitt Romney (as Ezra Klein claims), but it’s at least a small Democratic victory, IMHO.
The Moar You Know
Damn, I was hoping they’d string this out a few more days and do themselves a lot more damage.
Oh well, two months is soon enough.
schrodinger's cat
DougJ@top
Are the Republicans saving themselves for marriage?
BGinCHI
So, anyone want to predict how soon the House and Senate are going to have to fight over this again? And who has the upper hand now that this showdown has ended?
And while we’re at it, whose idea (Dems or GOP) was it to just do a 2 month extension? Doesn’t that seem like fixing a leak by putting your finger on it?
Will it lead to congress doing something about jobs? Hahahaha. Just kidding.
dmsilev
At the very least, it’s a major defeat for John Boehner, who has basically spent the last week or so with a “Kick Me” sign taped to his back. And about half a dozen knives sticking through the sign into his back.
Marc
Will the people who whine about the Democrats always caving change their tune?
Waldo
Au contraire. Given recent history, any Dem victory — even a small one — is a game changer.
BGinCHI
@dmsilev: I was really hoping Cantor would get some blame for this. I have a giant loath for that guy.
Brachiator
The good thing is that they passed the thing, and the Republicans looked like total tools in the process.
The bad thing is that there will be more battles over extending the payroll tax cut for the remainder of 2012, and paying for it, in the next few weeks.
ETA: I give full credit to the Dems for making the Republicans blink. I hope this pleases Matt Damon.
dmsilev
@BGinCHI: The 2 month idea came out of the Senate, basically as a way to buy enough time to finish arguing about what, if any, offsets would be applied to cover the cost of the tax cut. Since the House’s plan for paying for this is basically “a bunch of right-wing fever-dream goodies”, which probably won’t change, I’d say there’s a reasonable chance that we get to play this same song all over again in late February.
Midnight Marauder
I imagine this is the face John Boehner is making to celebrate his victory.
DanielX
It does make you wonder what sort of pressure was exerted by Republican leadership…”All you freshman assholes who are holding up Christmas recess and making us all look like assholes, this is a cattle prod. Senator McConnell is going to hook you up and put your nads on trickle charge until such time as you knock it the fuck off. What? I didn’t hear you….stop screaming and speak clearly, you little shit!”
Veritas
Two month extension? Sounds good to me.
You see, “progressives”, every time Obambi gets dragged down into Congressional politics he loses. The more we can occupy him with the minute details of Congressional bargaining, the more voters will hate him. Voters hate Congressional negotiations, and the more we can drag Obambi down into the mud, the better.
dmsilev
@BGinCHI: Seems pretty obvious that Cantor is gunning for Boehner’s job. I think it would be good if he gets it; he’s pretty stupid and pretty obviously an extremist.
Joseph Nobles
Get ready for a post-holiday shitstorm/temper tantrum the likes of which we have not yet seen from the House Republicans, and that is a fooking high bar.
MikeJ
@schrodinger’s cat: I think he’s saying that the house GOP just seem a little weird.
The Moar You Know
Little hasty. There’s no deal done yet. We already know that Boehner has no control over the caucus whatsoever, and worse, is prone to telling people a deal is done, when there is in fact no deal at all.
There will simply be a new vote on Friday. Any bets on whether Cantor’s gonna shiv Orange Julius for good this time? My bet is on “yes”.
Linda Featheringill
@Veritas:
Au contraire. Most people blame the Republicans for this particular mess.
Observer
So all that jawboning by the POTUS worked then?
Or was there no effect to the jawboning because the Senate passed their part? Because if there wasn’t any point, then why did he do it?
And if it did have an effect then can we (well you) retire the “but but but the POTUS doesn’t have a vote in Congress” and the old “bully pulpit is of no use” lines of arguments.
RSA
@MikeJ:
We’ve known that all these years.
A Humble Lurker
And to think, we get to do this all again in two months. During election season.
I’m (sincerely) positively giddy.
eemom
No-boner is soggy orange weeping toast.
Triassic Sands
From the National Journal article:
Really? The lunatics in the House folded because of White House and public pressure? Or was it because the Wall Street Journal, Mitch McConnell, and other lunatics wouldn’t support them? I think lack of Republican/lunatic support was more likely the reason they folded. How responsive have the Republicans been to White House and public pressure in the past?
schrodinger's cat
@MikeJ: I know. I was just kidding.
MikeJ
@RSA: Whatever happened to all this season’s losers of the year?
harlana
:D
RD
@Marc:
Not likely. Their pathology is a thousand times more savage.
JPL
Actually it was a big deal. A lot of Americans didn’t realize that they had a tax cut and now they do. A lot of Americans now realize that the repubs didn’t really care about middle lass tax cuts.
hildebrand
@Veritas: Have you ever, and I mean ever, posted something about what Republicans could do constructively? Your entire playlist is a collection of insults and dancing on graves – doesn’t that unremitting parade of negativity get to you? Doesn’t it kinda suck to live your life being known as the one who constantly pisses in everyone else’s cornflakes?
Raven
Americans didn’t realize that
water was wet.
DanielX
@Marc: Oh hell no. Because the House GOP jerkoffs who gave in are yielding to pressure from the public and their own leadership, not to pressure from Democrats. The Dems will do el foldo again…and again…and again, since to the best of my knowledge they haven’t had mass spine transplants. You’d think they would have figured out that they give now, the more they’re going to have to give in future. A lesson I sincerely hope Obama has learned by now…
harlana
and
The Moar You Know
@Observer: Hate to tell you this, but Obama had nothing to do with this about-face by the GOP (which is not really an about-face, and may well fail).
The facts were self-evident to all. A bill needed to be passed. Republicans derailed until the public got too pissed for the GOP to ignore.
Raven
@hildebrand: Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. He gets off every time someone answers his weak ass.
harlana
lastly
SteveM
Even the ’62 Mets won 40 games.
Brachiator
@The Moar You Know:
That would be fun to see.
The Republicans still lose. A Friday vote guarantees that no one but news junkies will know about it. All normal people will be getting their holiday on. But people will be going into the holidays with an awareness of the GOP falling all over themselves to do something stupid.
If the vote extends the payroll tax cut, people will come out of the holidays and go, “Well, duh.”
If the GOP continues to screw up, people will come out of the holidays and go, “WTF? I got less money to pay for my holiday goodies? Where’s my goddam compromise?”
Villago Delenda Est
@hildebrand:
He’s a shitstain. It’s what he does.
harlana
@hildebrand:
it’s a blast!
The Moar You Know
@hildebrand: Please look up the definition of “griefer”.
No point in even talking to this one.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Joseph Nobles:
Well what is left for them beyond setting the Capital building on fire and taking poison in mass after tweeting how America will be sorry when they are gone? They’ve gone full emmo on just about everyone other way.
Culture of Truth
@RD: and more terrifying!
Corey
On the Ezra Klein front, no one could have predicted, but he’s slowly turning into a Village whore.
RD
@Veritas:
Can you link to a reputable current poll which shows Romney beating Obama?
Just curious.
Linnaeus
The level of dysfunction in our government is mind-boggling, so I’ll take whatever good news I can get.
The Sailor
The deal ain’t done yet, and since this hit the news and all the optics are ‘GOP caved’, the batshit crazy teabaggers in the House aren’t gonna do a Unanimous Consent. JMHO.
Special Patrol Group
Pierce has the longer version. And he’s correct.
Kicker:
Monkeyfister
There is no question that the Teabagged Republicans are intransigent assholes, but I cannot get my head around Democrats, Liberals and Progressives rallying around the de-funding of Social Security with this Payroll Tax Holiday.
Attaching it to the very needed Unemployment Insurance extension, and Medicare re-imbursement authorization was a recipe for disaster in the first place, with this gaggle of evil clowns controlling the House.
Here is the actual House Bill: via House.gov
You’ll have one hell of a time finding half of the provisions discussed anywhere in the Media or the Blogosphere. What the House Teabaggers are all het up about is the stripping out of several of their most odious demands for all of two months.
1. They inserted a proviso that greatly weakens the Affordable Care Act: CPBB, which would throw nearly 200,000 out of coverage.
2. They demanded circumvention, or neutering of EPA regulations that greatly reduce emmissions, and put strict controls on mining company effluents– specifically Mercury and Arsenic. Of course, they cynically called this, “EPA Regulatory Relief.” Fortunately, the EPA just rolled those regulations out, thus making this point nearly moot. But, of course, it only made the Teabagged House all the more adamant to get their way, today: Susie Madrak has more on this.
3. The Teabaggers also were demanding drug-testing for Unemployment Insurance applicants/recipients, which is utterly ridiculous.
So, those three pieces of the Teabagger Bill were stripped out– for all of two months– by the Senate, and that was enough for them to go apeshit, and, once AGAIN, threaten to destroy what is left of this economy.
But, as much as I cannot understand how the horribly unnecessary XL Pipeline, or these other provisions remotely relate to Medicare or Long-Term Unemployment, I simply cannot support the HEADLINE Payroll Tax Holiday.
Even when I was making only $20K per annum, even when I was unemployed for 18 months post-9/11, $20 in my paycheck was still of nominal value to me. It meant I drank cheap beer, and rolled my own smokes, instead of buying premium. Twenty bucks per pay period is not worth what the Teabaggers are demanding as ransom, without offering a damned thing in their so-called “negotiations.”
The de-funding of Social Security should be questioned by EVERY AMERICAN from age eight to eighty.
I’d prefer the Senate get their over-paid asses back in session, split the Payroll Tax Holiday nonsense out, pass the necessary Medicare and UI extensions as a “clean” Bill for the entire year, and deal with the rest of the crap Legislation at a later date.
This is no fucking way to govern a Nation in crisis, and I am shocked that Congress retains even an 11% approval rate.
Moreover– the Left needs to stop and give some SERIOUS thought as to just what the fuck it is championing with this Payroll Tax cut.
Fuck the lot of them, I am so goddamned pissed. I’m over 40, and dammit– I WANT Social Security to simply EXIST in twenty years.
This shit is fucked up, and BULLSHIT.
–mf
Veritas
@RD:
sure will!
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_1220925.pdf
Even PPP, a Democrat Pollster, has Romney ahead by two.
Veritas
An incumbent President winning? I hate to break it to you, “progressives”, but not in this economy!
Zifnab
As a someone involved in Medicare billing, can I just say “Praise the Sweet Baby Jesus”? This bill contained the Medicare Doc Fix that Congress has to pass every year to keep the Medicare Plan B budget from imploding. This could have caused a major shit storm in my office.
Also, I hope Boehner gets to go home to half the state of Ohio bitching him out for being a schmuck. What a god damn mess.
Brachiator
@The Sailor:
Here’s part of the report from The LA Times:
If “GOP aides” are the source of the story, the Republicans would be crazier than usual not to have a sealed deal.
Linda Featheringill
@JPL: #30
GREAT advertising for the Dems.
Mnemosyne
@Monkeyfister:
Honey, if your main concern with missing $20 from your paycheck was having to roll your own cigarettes, you were not poor.
John Scalzi can explain to you better than I can that you were not poor. But, yeah, all of those poor people just have to buy less expensive beer and all their problems will be solved!
In conclusion, go fuck yourself and your fake concern.
The Moar You Know
It’s important to realize that when two sides are fighting for political dominance, historically the more ruthless side always wins.
Democrats are far from ruthless. Take victories while we can get ’em.
boss bitch
@DanielX:
that folding is Democrats actually giving a shit about their constituents and the economy. I’m glad its so easy for some of you to tell Americans to go DIAF because you want to look tough for the Village and a bunch of monday morning quarerbacks like you or Matt Damon.
Culture of Truth
I understand what Pierce is saying, but because this is a tax cut, and popular, and we can see the pressure they are under, I don’t the Dems have to give up much, at all, to keep the payroll tax cut. Further, it is not necessarily totally in the Dems interest to keep it, in that, if it expires, public anger may be directed at the enemy party.
He makes good points, just something else to think about.
dmsilev
@Brachiator:
As the (local) saying goes, Peak WIngnut Is A Lie.
Kerry Reid
@Brachiator: Matt Damon is obviously the one who forced the Dems to make the GOP blink!
The Moar You Know
@Monkeyfister: Cool story, bro.
BO_Bill
Typical Barry crap. Please explain how a small two-month tax change has any consequence outside of cheap political games.
Monkeyfister, I really like your screen name, but you are fucked unless you learn how to successfully compete in the emerging labor market to pick vegetables, or fruit. There might also be some openings in security-related fields of work.
boss bitch
@Monkeyfister:
the payroll tax cut does not defund SS.
MikeJ
@boss bitch: It does if your answer to everything is “Democrats suck!”
Raven
@BO_Bill: You motherfuckers wrote the book on cheap political games. Any chance to jam it up your and your puke buddies asses is a good thing.
Zifnab
@Monkeyfister:
Social Security isn’t being defunded. It was defunded back in the 90s, when we traded out all the cash for government treasury notes. Legislatively, SS will continue paying out benefits until Congress chooses to change the benefits package, and that’s not going to suddenly become more popular in the next two years than it was in the last two years. Please baby Jesus let the Republicans start talking about cutting SS benefits loudly again. That stinker went over like a lead balloon when Bush tried it back in ’05.
Right now, Obama is trying to get cash into the hands of people that need it most. He can’t give them “handouts” in the form of unemployment checks and earned income tax credits, but he can give them tax cuts because Republicans have a hard time saying no to that kind of thing.
Ideally, we’d be raising taxes on the upper class, increasing government employment, investing in green jobs and light rail, and engaging in a host of progressive endeavors. But we’ve got a Republican House and a dysfunctional Senate. These are the cards he’s got to play.
Ultimately, I have a hard time believing SS is at risk just because we might have to start paying for it out of the general fund some time after 2037. We have a host of policy options to plug the hole before then (repealing the SS tax ceiling alone would do the trick). I’m no more worried about SS’s fate pending these tax cuts than I was when the whole debt reduction austerity parade started.
RD
@Veritas:
Fair enough. Let’s look at RCP.
Notice something?
Raven
Tweety’s wife just burst his bubble on JFK and you should have seen his face! Priceless.
Martin
Man, do I love Colbert. He’s offered $500K from his super pac to fund the early South Carolina GOP primary. Not only is he continuing to make a mockery of this unlimited money arrangement, he’s doing his level best to make sure Newt gets an early lead.
Monkeyfister
@Veritas:
Let’s see…
No one not of the hardened Conservative Base is going to vote for Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, Cain or Perry, and we sure as hell will never have a Preznit Newt.
The entire American Voting Public already knows that “Multiple Choice Mitt” has no spine, and has never known a solid Principled Stance in his entire Political life– That prick can attend three different fund-raisers in three hours, and take a different position on every issue at each one, and HE DOES EXACTLY THAT.
So, that leaves Jon Huntsman, totally competent, Internationally experienced, and KNOWS China and its allies very well– he’s MOSTLY sane, but the Base hates him because he was Ambassador to China, and (hushed bigot’s voice) he’s MORMON, doncha know. Empty Suit Mitt ends up the Nominee by scant margins… Regardless of his Mormonism, his insanity, his ability to speak soothingly to the rabid Teabaggers and the Talibangicals will rule the day.
So… The GOP doesn’t HAVE a viable nominee. The crazees WILL have their way, and they’ll put up the most ridiculous contender imaginable from the lot.
The Glibertarians will put up a Third Party Candidate, and Obama will sail through by a bloody-knuckled 51%.
That’s how this monstrosity of a Goat Race is going to play out.
–mf
Satanicpanic
@RD: This is before the rest of the country gets a good look at the guy Republicans like so much he’s still polling in second place.
Villago Delenda Est
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Oh, man, we should hope for that.
“Democrats make it clear: GOP congressmen taking poison will annoy them no end, they won’t be able to stand the annoyance, it will drive them absolutely bonkers.”
Grumpy Code Monkey
@dmsilev:
Cantor has that “lean and hungry look” to him, doesn’t he?
handy
Matt Damon?
MATT DAMON!
Warren Terra
I think Klein made a pretty good argument:
When Cantor’s minions give the (fairly correct) impression that Washington is fundamentally broken, the Republicans take some of the blame – but so does “Congress” (which to many voters still means “Democrats” almost two decades after 1994) and so does the rest of the system, including the incumbent President.
..
@Corey:
Not really fair. The couching of the article is village-friendly, but if you look at the content, it’s fairly critical of the evolution of Washington and skeptical of The American Select, and gives them credit only for this:
These are all good, common-sense ideas. Moreover, they’re all ideas that Klein and others have been pushing for some time. Despite the objectionable framing of the piece (“Americans Elect Has Some Actual Ideas”), if you read beyond the headline I don’t think you’ll be so upset.
Emma
@DanielX: And right on time, the firebagger parade starts.
Mike in NC
Details, please. Kathleen Matthews has been a Beltway fixture for many years, an nightly anchorperson on a local DC TV station. Probably rakes in a salary in the high six figure range, if not more.
As Chris might say in his inimitable way: “We’re just plain folks”!
Monkeyfister
@Zifnab:
Riiiiiight…
So Payroll Taxes don’t directly fund Social Security?
$1,000+ per year x at least 15,000,000 workers? that’s a LOT of fucking cash denied to Social Security.
I guarantee you that a year from now, we’ll be hearing the onerous screechings of Politicians– Republican and Democratic alike– bemoaning the “very dire straits of Social Security”, with a “Who coulda known” smack to the rhetoric. Of COURSE the demand will be to turn Social Security over to fucking Wall Street.
Mark my words.
–mf
AxelFoley
LMMFBAO at the Breaking News on MSNBC: “Boehner Caves, Agrees To Deal On Payroll Tax”.
Emma
@BO_Bill: How about my friend keeps her house and can continue to go to school? Real enough for you?
Mike in NC
@Monkeyfister:
Not much commentary yet on Willard’s refusing to release his tax records, something unheard of among presidential candidates. Talk about clueless. What are the odds on a spectacular flip-flop within 24 hours?
Monkeyfister
@boss bitch:
You are a fucking imbecile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax
sidereal
You can’t possibly deny that this is good news for John McCain
Brachiator
@BO_Bill:
Easy. Payroll and withholding tables have to be adjusted. This ain’t as simple as you might think.
If an agreement didn’t happen until after the New Year, retroactive adjustments are a pain in the ass, especially if negotiations drag out more months.
Also, too, the GOP would look like total fools if they agree to a two month extension, and then reject any subsequent deal.
In short, a two month extension makes it more likely that a full year agreement will later be reached.
On the other hand, the Democrats can still stumble when it comes to any agreement on how to pay for everything.
There is also the possibility that the Republicans will push for another extension of the Bush tax cuts as part of any new deal. Fun times.
Double also, too, there are some expiring tax provisions that also have to be dealt with. Everybody was always going to have to come back to fight some more. You just want to take a few things off the table.
The Moar You Know
@Monkeyfister: Cool story, bro.
Hill Dweller
@sidereal: McCain was acting like the bombings in Iraq were good news for him today.
Monkeyfister
@Mnemosyne:
$10 per week ain’t shit. I made twice that per week donating plasma.
When you’re down to donating plasma for money– you’re fucking POOR. The day after 9’11, I was laid off of a $20K per year job with no benies. 18 months on THAT UI… You’re fucking poor. Don’t try to get fucking uppity on me. When I was finally hired, I was exactly one month from being ass-out totally broke, and utterly homeless in the middle of a Michigan January.
So FUCK YOU.
–mf
Steve
@Zifnab:
Because cash is “real money,” while U.S. Treasuries are “worthless IOUs”? This is a Bush argument.
Martin
@Monkeyfister:
No, they don’t. Not technically.
Technically, payroll taxes directly fund the mandatory spending portion of the US budget in a 1:1 ratio to what the US budget funds Social Security. So even if you cut those taxes, the govt is still on the hook for the contribution to SS. They can replace those dollars with other taxes, or raise the debt ceiling to meet that obligation if they choose.
If you dive into the treasury reports on how money flows in and out, you can actually see the transfer take place. So, SS isn’t losing any money, because it’s all getting paid for by floating US Treasuries.
That said, it’s an economically stupid policy but a politically smart one. It’s economically stupid because it offsets the employee contribution, so it does fuckall to create jobs other than hand everyone a few extra bucks, most of which will get plowed into rent, but mostly not into economic expansion. We’d be better off overall if we put that tax back to what it should be and used the billions of dollars to ramp up infrastructure spending or whatever which would directly create jobs and that will have more of an economic benefit. But that’ll never get through Congress.
It’s politically smart because voters like it, it wedges the middle class and the rich (which will favor Democrats in this case), and because the GOP oppose everything Obama supports, it actually did cause the GOP to oppose a tax cut, which now that we’ve hit election season is having an effect on perceptions. It’d be nice if Obama put his foot on the GOP’s neck here, though. It’s not his way, but if the GOP is forced to back down, he should ask for a full year and to strip the pipeline and other bullshit – really push them hard into a corner.
Linda Featheringill
Occasionally, speculation bubbles up like methane in an Arctic Circle lake that Boehner might be losing his grip on the Speakership. If he were taken out back and shot, I guess that Cantor would take his place. I suspect we could then see a whole new level of assholery.
Litlebritdifrnt
@efgoldman: It is always amazing to me how crashingly ignorant most Christians are about their religion. A Christmas Tree has zero, zip, zilch to do with Christ or Christmas, if anything it should be known as a “Winter Solstice Tree” (Happy Winter Solstice to all BTW). Ditto, Holly, Mistletoe, Wreaths, Yule Logs. Almost all of the so called “Christmas” traditions were nicked from us Pagans to convince the early Christians to celebrate Christ’s birth in December.
I could understand Snowbilly’s bitching that there was no Nativity Scene in the Christmas Card but a tree? Read a fucking book you ignorant cow.
BC
@Monkeyfister: But the “pay-fors” offset the SS losses, so it’s a wash. Social Security is not losing money as the money to pay for this tax cut is paid for. To put another way: the Social Security trust fund is getting full payments for this tax cut.
Zifnab
@Monkeyfister:
The SSTrust is functionally merged with the general fund. There’s no air between them. There’s very little point in distinguishing between a social security tax dollar and every other federal tax dollar we collect. Had Obama raised the standard deduction by $1000 / mo rather than cutting SS revenue by $1000 / mo, we’d have seen about the same effect.
And SS payments are not tied to SS revenue. If the Trust were to run out of money tomorrow, there’s no reason the feds couldn’t pay benefits out of the general fund and nothing that would prevent those checks from being cut and cashed save another act of Congress. Since the Gang of 13 and the Super Committee and all the other cost cutters were already talking about cutting Social Security while the trust is still in the black, I think its a bit silly to create this artificial firewall on the liberal side and pretend like SS revenue and SS expenditures have anything to do with each other. This is not a budgetary reality. Let’s stop pretending.
Comrade Luke
The Seattle Times has the absolute best photo of Boehner right now. I would be irresponsible to not share it.
Frowny face Boehner.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Monkeyfister: Simple fix, when POTUS gets re-elected and hopefully Nancy Smash gets the gavel back they eliminate the cap on earnings.
RD
@Monkeyfister:
Mark them yourself. I’m busy.
Lojasmo
@Veritas:
Unlike boooosh, president Obama can concentrate on several things at once.
If you look at (and understand) the numbers, Americans didn’t blame the president at all (except for you, and the other cerebrally understaffed 10%
Veritas
@Lojasmo:
Just watch, baby. Everytime Obambi is dragged down into the Congressional gutter, his approval ratings take a hit. Just look at the debt ceiling fight. I think the strategy for 2012 is to have constant crisis, the country constantly on the edge of a government shutdown, to keep Obambi in the mud and destroy the credibility of the federal government. Basically, we’re going to have a kind of debt ceiling showdown about every month between know and November.
So buckle up, liberals, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
RealityCheck
Calouste
@Monkeyfister:
TPM just reports that Huntsman won’t be on the ballot on Virginia, due to failing to collect the required 10,000 signatures. Only Romney, Gingrich, Paul and Perry made it. And Gingrich only got 11,500 signatures, which probably means that any challenge to those signatures would see him drop off the ballot as well.
BO_Bill
Testing.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Kerry Reid:
Matt Damon strikes me as a more thoughtful fellow than say, Michael Moore so I still have hopes that he’ll come around. Plus he’s younger and presumedly not as set in his ways.
Keep in mind that Matt Damon is a son of a schoolteacher. Teachers unions have their backs against the wall and are wary of the administration’s education policies. Using the spotlight of the 2012 Presidential campaign to refocus on the jobs bill, which includes $60 billion for education, will go a long way toward winning them over.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Ah sweet Schadenfreude. The reason Veritas all up in arms is he knows like the rest of the tribe of this that it’s been proven, yet again, the GOP can’t run the government. It was Republicans who brought the whole mess on themselves.
Even if you get what you pine so desperately for Veritas, a President Romney, it will just be four years of GOP civil war the likes the nation has never seen.
Obama wins 2012. The end of the GOP as demographics take hold
Romney wins 2012. The GOP self destructs in a mass of contradictions.
Good news for conservatives indeed.
Zifnab
@Steve: Well, the Bush argument was “Let’s default on the SS Trust portion of Treasuries and pretend $2.5 trillion in debt just went away”, so if we’re dealing in Bush rhetoric they’re at least being honest about everything.
Ultimately, however, my point was that there’s really no difference between the SS Trust money and the general fund money. The cash isn’t really separate and preserving SS revenue doesn’t do anything to preserve SS payments, since they are divorced from each other.
The SS Trust cash was “spent” in the Clinton administration so we could say we balanced the budget (hey, we’re running in the black on SS and in the red on general revenue, let’s stop being idiots and just put them all on the same damn balance sheet!) That’s fiscal reality. If you want to argue the value of a US Treasury bond versus a US dollar, go ask Moody’s or some Wall Street exec. I don’t really have a dog in that fight.
Hill Dweller
@Veritas: For your sake, I hope you are a parody poster.
RD
@Veritas:
Did you look at those RCP numbers?
Raven
@Mike in NC: Tweety has been pimping his book on JFK for weeks. She was on and he was gushing as usual and the topic turned to the media coverage of today’s candidates. She said something like “with the way he cheated on his wife he could never get elected today”. Tweety was stunned and ended up muttering that ” someone who saved his buddies lives in the Pacific were cut some slack”!
SiubhanDuinne
@harlana:
@harlana:
@harlana:
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Veritas
@RD:
Obambi is polling at 43% approval according to Gallup. Just drag his numbers down a LITTLE more and he hits the 30s.
Not good news for a President facing reelection in the worst economy since the Great Depression–but great news for Mitt Romney and the GOP.
Mike in NC
@Linda Featheringill:
There’s some quid pro quo going on here: Boehner is a notoriously lazy politician, so he’s probably OK with mainly being a figurehead Speaker. Cantor imagines himself as a Speaker-in-Training, does the heavy lifting, and supplies Orange John with booze and a weekly supply of Camel Lights (Cantor’s Richmond area district produces little aside from cigarettes).
Lojasmo
@Veritas:
As is pointed out in your linked article, PPP has exhibited a repiblican bias.
So, the question stands. Try again.
jl
@Hill Dweller: I don’t know, Obama looked pretty smudged up standing up there with Boehner at the presser, eating a lot of sh…
Wait, let me check again, not sure Obama was in the clip of Boehner eating a plate of steaming pile, in front of the whole country. Hmmm.. on second look, where is that Obama, anyway?
WaterGirl
@Litlebritdifrnt:
When asked what books she reads, I believe her answer will be “well, all of them, Katie”.
Monkeyfister
@BC:
Getting full payment– FROM WHERE??? I’ll tell you where… The General Fund. This is turning the entire isolated self-funding role of Social Security inside out, and it is a guaranteed recipe for disaster.
Your semantics are bollixed, actually, and I can’t appreciate your blinkered, point of view.
Fine, I’ll meet you half-way: So SS is being funded out of the General fund, as you say– at the expense of WHAT OTHER important services?
No matter HOW you choose to slice it, the deal is totally wrong-headed.
–mf
Lojasmo
@Veritas:
Yes, that is the strategy. Why do republicans hate our great nation?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@BO_Bill:
Nope, it’s not working yet.
Keep testing.
FormerSwingVoter
I’m way more excited by this than I should be, I’ll admit it. But as a younger Democrat (and one who has only been paying attention to politics for four years or so), this is literally the very first time I’ve ever seen Democrats hold their ground.
jl
@Lojasmo: I don’t know, the House GOP making a hated laughingstock of itself in front of the whole country, causing inter GOP warfare, and surrendering with a sadsack GOP Speaker press conference where he blurts out it was hard for his House caucus to do the right thing, I dunno, that seems like bad news for Obama.
I sure do hope nothing like that happens again before the election!
lol
@Monkeyfister:
Jesus fucking Christ.
Social Security has been getting immediately reimbursed for the lost funds out of general revenue. It does not impact the SS trust fund’s soundness, it does not impact the benefits SS pays out.
Anyone saying otherwise is lying to you.
Edit: Oh, I see you’re already moving the goal posts.
gaz
@RD: Now then, RD – that was just mean!
lol
@Monkeyfister:
It’s getting funded out of debt, I presume so that we can easily get money into the hands of lower income people to spend. You know, the kind of Keynesian stimulus that lefties have been screaming for?
But now that Obama passed it, you have to find a way to make it bad. Thus all the “he’s defunding social security!” bullshit being peddled by the professional left.
Frankensteinbeck
@FormerSwingVoter:
Nope. It’s the very first time you’ve been told the Democrats held their ground. In actual practice, this is the same ‘offer a harmless compromise because good legislation is out of the question, Republicans screech like howler monkeys but spend all their time throwing poop at each other, eventual result is that the Dems don’t get much, but the Republicans get nothing at all’ that’s been going on nonstop since the Tea Party hit the House.
lol
@BC:
Save your breath. He’s moved the goal posts. Obama passed it so it must be horribly bad. He just need to find the reason why it is.
RD
@Veritas:
Did you even read what I linked?
different-church-lady
Maybe it will finally put the OBAMA CAVES ON EVERYTHING meme to rest.
Heh… I crack myself up.
Benjamin Franklin
@Veritas:
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/12/gay_marriage_amy_koch_michael_brodkorb.php
Monkeyfister
@lol:
Even IF it is being funded out of the GF– at what EXPENSE?
It is NOT the intended means of funding SS– the Direct Funding via FICA is the intended way. **I** didn’t move the fucking goal posts, CONGRESS did, and they had no business doing so.
Save your freakin’ semantics– this entire game is wrong, and is re-wiring, in very faulty and chaotic ways, the means of funding vary important programs.
Monkeyfister
@lol:
Ahem… The House hasn’t even passed it. That vote comes up on Friday at ~10am. Obama hasn’t signed this.
Yet.
–mf
dmsilev
An interesting thing about this particular cave: Boehner stated that he is going to try to get this passed via unanimous consent tomorrow. That means that if just one whack-job Republican speaks up and objects, the whole thing comes crashing down again, and Boehner then has to call the entire House back into session next week for a roll call vote.
In other words, it’s very possible that Boehner’s humiliation is not yet complete.
Bruce S
FWIW I don’t think this temporary extension was what Ezra Klein was suggesting was “good news for Mitt Romney.” Quite the opposite. Klein’s point was that no passage of the continuation – under whatever dubious conditions or “compromise” – was “good news for Mitt Romney” in that the money it would take out of the economy – thus prolonging the slowness of recovery, which is Obama’s greatest vulnerability – coupled with a sense of Beltway “gridlock” and nobody-in-DC-gives-a-shit-about-me-ism among the “average voter” (who is almost by definition “low information”) wouldn’t bode well for the President. Or at least wasn’t a clear net gain.
RD
@Monkeyfister:
Whatever. She-who-lost would have rewired in record time, whilst preserving comity at every step.
Dream on.
FormerSwingVoter
@Monkeyfister:
Ah, I see your argument here. You think the cut is going to be extended indefinitely, crippling Social Security. That there’s no way they let a tax cut expire in an election year.
If they’re smart about it, Democrats can use that to their advantage – demanding, say, a 1% additional Social Security tax on incomes over the $100k(ish) cap while keeping the middle-class cut intact. They can pitch this as being the party that will save Social Security without raising any taxes on middle class Americans etc. etc… If I believed in eleven-dimensional chess, I’d be pretty happy right now.
I don’t, so I totally understand your concern. But hopefully it’ll just be another one-year extension with a pay-for.
AxelFoley
@BO_Bill:
FTFY
cat
Our local TV station spun this as the GOP House didn’t want to pass the compromise bill as the House GOP wanted to pass a one year extension rather then a two month extension.
The House GOP members then ‘compromised’ to the ‘compromise’ and passed the Senate ‘compromise’ bill.
I yelled at the TV. Loudly. I’m totally convinced that helped.
Monkeyfister
@Monkeyfister:
Further– I do not agree with issuing MORE DEBT to cover the General Fund accounting shenanigans that rob from other essential services, to cover a Program (Social Security) which should not even INVOLVE the General Fund. especially while the Banksters continue to slurp daily at every Discount Window availed them via Treasury and the FED, while paying record bonuses, borrowing at 0% Interest (ZIRP), and lending at 4-7%, and doing nothing to help those they defrauded, or the Main Street Economy at large.
The House Republicans, and the Energy Industry got a HUGE windfall in this Bill, but it was not enough for the Teabaggers, or the Industry Barons– they need this Bill to really hurt us, down here, HARD.
I suspect that you are being purposefully thick on this subject. Perhaps my eloquent verbiage was too much of an intellectual challenge?
At any rate, the House Goobers are ready to pass this POS Bill on Friday, and we’ll see their other shitty hostage demands later next year.
This is no way for the United States to be governed. Two months at a time? That is Bullshit. Federal CRAs are difficult enough for Government and Commerce alike to operate under. This is simply unacceptable.
–mf
Mike in NC
@Raven:
Tweety’s an idiot. For decades people have been wondering WTF was going on that night where a PT boat was hit broadside and cut in half by a Japanese destroyer. Serious dereliction of duty perhaps?
Heroism after the fact not withstanding.
Thoughtcrime
VOTER FRAUD ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s true. Voter fraud exists and it can determine the outcome of elections. Want proof?:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20111222/NEWS/111222028/Judge-Secretary-State-White-ineligible-hold-office?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com
Monkeyfister
@FormerSwingVoter:
One years, two years, three years– this crisis isn’t going to end until at the least 2015… It’s all about righting the frauds committed within the F.I.R-E Industries, and that simply isn’t happening in any way acceptable at the moment.
It doesn’t matter, my friend. The short “holiday” was fine. TWO YEARS is damaging… anything more will be a SS Death-Nail. I don’t expect this to last forever at all.
They keep screaming about MORAL HAZARD when offering Mortgage relief to the swindled Masses, but keep on firing that Free Money bazooka at the Banksters, who keep setting that money on fire.
But ANY additional tax on the uber-rich is off the table.
A tax cut for the Middle Class should be an easy no-brainer for the Teabagged GOP, but they simply wanted to make that hurt, and hurt and hurt for us, down here.
Well– it’s a bullshit “Tax Cut.” It ISN’T a Tax Cut, it was a little relief valve that needs to be replaced by something more substantive.
–mf
Anya
@Corey: Which part of his column do you disagree with?
Anya
@Warren Terra: I don’t get why some PJers hate Ezra? I learn a lot from his blog at the Washington Post. He’s an adorable policy wonk with a gentle disposition. What’s not to like?
ruemara
@lol: Back out of it. I’ve been hearing this from some very left persons, so I’m assuming that this is the latest outrage, the stealth defunding of SS via Obama’s wrong headed tax cuts.
Ron
@Veritas: What kind of odds you want to put on this?
dww44
@BGinCHI:
As do I. My more independent and less poitically involved spouse and I agree to a bit of sympathy for Boehner ( he’s probably having a few stiff ones) and much less so for Cantor. But the meme that the both of them espoused about wanting the extension for a year as the they didn’t vote for the 2 month one turned any liking I had to total disgust at their bald-faced lies. As expected a meme being spouted all over my TV today by various and sundry pundits and so called reporters.
different-church-lady
@ruemara: Just as there are conservatives who will spew any line they need to prove all tax raises are bad, there are liberals who will spew any line they need to prove all tax cuts are bad.
Mnemosyne
@Zifnab:
Yep. That’s why the Republicans mocked Gore for talking about creating a Social Security “lockbox” — right now, there is no differentiation between the general fund and Social Security’s trust fund.
To start wringing our hands at this moment, when the working poor desperately need the money to get through the winter, smells of ratfuckery to me.
Mnemosyne
@Monkeyfister:
So if a working mother of two wondering how she’s going to feed her kids during the Christmas break without the free lunch they get at school isn’t out selling her plasma, you’ve got no sympathy for her?
Sorry, you may have been broke for a while, but you sure as shit weren’t poor.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
Obama’s about to gain the appearance of a victory. Can’t let that happen. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Tractarian
That spoofing style is too familiar.
Veritas is DougJ!
SRW1
@BO_Bill:
Please call John Boehner. He has some insights hot from the stove in this regard.