It occurred to me we have not been very inclusive here, wishing merely a Merry Christmas and not really recognizing Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. I had a conversation with a friend a while back about Kwanzaa (which I knew literally nothing about), and he remarked it was a made up holiday and therefore not “real.” Looking back on that now, it is kind of funny to me that he was able to separate “real” holidays from “made-up” holidays.
I mean, any culture that is able to co-mingle the dueling mythologies of the virgin birth of a deity’s son in a barn with an old fat bearded guy in a red jumpsuit who really loves kids and spends his winters breaking into people’s houses to judge whether they have been naughty or nice really shouldn’t have the last word on whether something is “real” or “made-up.” And don’t get me started on the pagan stuff.
Kwanzaa stands for unity, self-determination, and a couple other noble goals like creativity and purpose. Whether Kwanzaa is made-up or real, those seem like valuable things for everyone to embrace, not just African-Americans.
And mind you, this is not an attack on Christmas, because I love Christmas. I’m all in favor of vacation and eating and drinking too much, giving gifts, and making my relatives miserable. At any rate, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and have a good Kwanzaa. Whatever blows your trumpet.
Comrade Javamanphil
And here I thought you were our loyal ally in the fictitious war to end all fictitious wars.
Loneoak
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
Actually, I think Festivus got the most attention around here. If any holiday is made up, it’s a ridiculous holiday invented by sitcom writers.
Speaking of which, does anyone know if Scientology has holidays?
Sebastian
Kwanzaa was never truly accepted because it has no drinking traditions associated with it.
St. Patrick’s Day, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Purim on the other hand …
arguingwithsignposts
why you hate red jumpsuits Cole?
Mnemosyne
@Loneoak:
Scientology is trying to sell themselves as a variation on Christianity (no, seriously, look at their cross-like logo sometime). I don’t know about Easter, but I know they do a huge Christmas festival at the center in Hollywood every year.
ETA: Basically, they’re trying to market themselves as “Christian-like” without actually including any of that Jesus and Bible stuff.
Randy Paul
I hope he remembers that on Father’s Day . . .
Loneoak
@Sebastian:
Insert bad malt liquor joke, run for cover.
rb
Whatever blows your trumpet.
This message brought to you by un-jerks everywhere.
Merry Xmas, Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Kwanzaa, Happy (very belated) Diwali, and all the rest from this atheist to all the rest of you.
You make me sick with your decency and humanity.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
charles darwin, 180 years ago today, embarked aboard the hms beagle on the trip where he would have the experiences that allowed him to form the hypothesis of evolution .
all we need are some kooky traditions to really sell this one to the masses, huh?
rb
@Randy Paul: Win.
Mnemosyne
I always assumed that Kwanzaa was more of a cultural festival than a “holiday” per se, but I’m also not sure how much difference there really is between the two things anyway.
Roger Moore
I think the distinction between a real holiday and a fake one is precisely that real holidays have a bunch of unrelated traditions associated with them, which are what people really celebrate. So the stuff about what to have for Christmas dinner (and whether the big dinner is supposed to be Christmas day or Christmas Eve), what order to open presents, Santa Claus judging people on whether they’re naughty or nice, etc. are part of the proof that Christmas is a real holiday. The same thing with the Easter egg hunts, illegal Independence day fireworks, and arguments about what kind of pie to have for Thanksgiving. That’s why I think the Super Bowl is closer to a real holiday than many of the legal holidays like Columbus day.
Citizen_X
@rb: As Kinky Friedman likes to say, “May the God of your choice bless you.”
jeffreyw
And when is the last time you have celebrated Caturday on this blog? Or the weeks long “Dog Days” festivals during the summer months? All inclusive my ass…
Jude
I don’t get that line. Aren’t all holidays made up? Even ones that are pegged to seasonal events like solstices and the like–we still have to create the holiday. There’s nothing written in nature or in our DNA commanding us to act or think certain ways on these days.
Jewish Steel
Spencer wanted to celebrate Christmas traditionally.
But the other basenjis, who themselves celebrate Kwanzaa, had a talk with him and straightened him out.
Southern Beale
@Jude:
Why do you hate Jesus?
:-)
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Jude:
that is true, but as george carlin once observed, have you ever noticed you never get laid on thanksgiving?
Mnemosyne
I’ll be curious to see how (or if) Kwanzaa changes as the US gets more and more immigrants from other parts of the African diaspora and from Africa itself.
Sloegin
Nobody celebrates Evacuation Day anymore, although Boxing Day is making a comeback.
I wouldn’t mind if Valentine’s Day got a shiv in the back…
BGinCHI
@Jewish Steel: That’s quality argyle on that basenji. I think you may have yourself a metrosexual hound there.
Bill Murray
@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal: except that evolution was known before Darwin. Darwin mostly came up with natural selection as a way to explain how evolution occurs in the wild.
MattF
Well, come to that, lots of things are made up. Personally, I like to think that
The Laws of Nature are the same
In any inertial reference frame.
unless, perhaps, you’re a neutrino.
Jewish Steel
@BGinCHI: Too handsome to be straight.
Linda Featheringill
Kwanza, from what I have read, has some really nice values to think about as you progress through the days. If you wanted to, you could celebrate Kwanza along with whatever religion you like, or with no religion at all.
I’ve often thought that a holiday featuring the important virtues that we should pursue just before New Years is a neat idea.
ETA:
Coexist. Also, too.
arguingwithsignposts
@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:
because of the turkey?
slag
@Randy Paul: So true. Why do people deride so-called Hallmark holidays that celebrate real people instead of mythologies?
For me, the only way to make Christmas real is to turn it into a Hallmark holiday. The yearly junk and junkmail influx notwithstanding, holidays are supposed to be for bringing out the best in people rather than deriding them.
So, in the blessed spirit of the Irony Day, Cole, your friend sounds like a real asshole. (Hallmark, here I come!)
Amir Khalid
@John Cole:
WHY ARE YOU IGNORING FESTIVUS?!
(I restricted myself to just all-caps and bold; I didn’t want to overdo the outrage by adding italics.)
carpeduum
If there are any holidays for pastafarians I’m in!
http://wikiality.wikia.com/Pastafarian
Linnaeus
Aren’t all holidays cultural constructs?
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
So when do they celebrate L.Ronmas?
Cris (without an H)
Because all the coats are on the bed.
Maus
@Loneoak: L Ron Hubbard-related events, opening of new Ideal Orgs, but otherwise no.
Also, Kwanzaa? It’s not a Hallmark Holiday. Practitioners don’t need you to wish them anything.
BGinCHI
@Jewish Steel: Damn. Cute dog.
Should not have showed the wife that pic. Maybe after the baby we’ll get one….
Cris (without an H)
The company I work for is based out of Louisiana, and let me tell you, the Monday after Super Bowl XLIV was a de facto office holiday.
TBogg
Kwanzaa is not a fake holiday. I know the creator Maulana (“Ron” to me) Karenga and his wife and they are real as you and me.
arguingwithsignposts
@Amir Khalid: your outrage is toned just right
metricpenny
Cole, I’ve noticed a change in you ever since you fathered ABL’s baby …
Thanks for the glad tidings.
MonkeyBoy
Not to diss Hanukkah, but it is a fairly minor Jewish holiday that has been bulked up to balance against Christmas which is a major Christian holiday.
Maus
@TBogg: Right. I don’t think it’s an inauthentic holiday by any means. Fake is a totally inappropriate word.
It is, however a holiday that should not be co-opted by mainstream, white, capitalist America, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2iWTJqo98
Mnemosyne
@Maus:
You must not live in Los Angeles.
Pictures from a few years ago here.
John M. Burt
@Cris (without an H): I have had some memorable experiences under the coat pile on the bed. It’s nice under there. And remaining still and silent when Aunt Inge comes to get her wrap is part of the fun.
MonkeyBoy
@Cris (without an H):
I think that is due to paying proper respect to the “Super Bowl Flu”.
Maus
@Mnemosyne: They don’t actually celebrate it so much as attempt to get PR through these activities.
If Scientology disavows Christ as a hallucination implanted in the minds of ancient souls, they don’t believe in Christmas.
Mnemosyne
@Maus:
I never said they believed in Christmas, but they very publicly celebrate it in an attempt to convince people they’re a “real” religion.
Heck, if only people who really believe in Jesus were allowed to celebrate Christmas, it would be a very, very small celebration.
shortstop
@Roger Moore: That was truly brilliant. I’m sold.
shortstop
@BGinCHI: You either have to have them before the baby comes or wait until the kid is old enough to help with the care. I don’t know why that should be, but all our childful friends assure us it’s true.
FlipYrWhig
@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal: Ooh, cool. Secular Xed Out Xmas can start on the solstice and then include both Newton’s birthday and Darwin’s voyage. Maybe a beagle can give all the skeptical children apples and wish them continued adaptive development.
Maus
@Mnemosyne:
Ok, I dig that. I just see public displays organized by the “church” and only lasting as long as the cameras are there as different from private “sincere” member-celebrations.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@arguingwithsignposts: Hey nice to see you.
Marci Kiser
You’re certainly right in that all holidays are ‘made up’ holidays. I suppose it would be better to call something like Kwanzaa a ‘marginal’ holiday, like Secretary’s Day and such. It doesn’t help that it’s based on no indigenous tradition and was founded for some really ugly reasons.
Soprano2
My mother said that to me once about Kwanza, too. I told her that it’s a silly distinction – all holidays were made up at one time or another. The only events close to a “natural” holiday are the summer and winter solstices and fall and spring equinoxes, because they are events that occur naturally.
It seems to me that these days the majority of holidays are mostly excuses for the greeting card industry, the candy industry, and the flower industry to get you to empty your pockets for them.
Maus
@Marci Kiser: Serious question:
Why call it a “marginal” holiday? Why bother worrying about it at all? It’s an exclusive holiday, and doesn’t require your opinion on legitimacy to succeed. In fact, I see it as being considered “fake” by the masses would hurt it much less than being co-opted as “the black alternative to/addition to Christmas”.
Roger Moore
@Cris (without an H):
Exactly. Everybody knows what they’re going to be doing on Superbowl Sunday. They have elaborate traditions for the parties they’re going to throw, there are special holiday sales, and the whole nine yards. Even people who aren’t football fans have traditions based around the rest of the people being inactive that day.
Schlemizel
Santa Clause has a red suit
He’s a communist
And beard and long hair
must be a pacifist
Whats in that pipe that he’s smoking?
– The pause of Mr. Clause by Arlo Guthrie
ramalamadingdong
My first Kwanzaa celebration was about three years ago. Like anything I think the meaning of the holiday is dependent upon who you spend it with.
I sat with my family, who I see only a few times a year, and listened to thoughtful pledges of love and commitment to family, finances, community, etc. that were moving. To participate effectively you really have to take more than a moment to think about actionable things you will do in the new year.
In corporate America I can yap for hours about most topics. whether I know anything about them or not. I was completely unprepared for the discussion and the thought behind it. It’s quite real.
The hilarious part was my 90 year old mother, inquiring if there was a Kwanzaa cake. Holidays require cake. We had no cake. Therefore Kwanzaa isn’t real.
Martin
There’s really two Christmases. There’s the go to mass and celebrate the birth of Jesus religious holiday and there’s the American/European cultural give stuff to people you like and take some days off of work and do pleasant stuff holiday. They happen to be on the same day and be called the same thing, but they’re entirely different events. People can celebrate either one or both, but Kwanzaa is like the 2nd Christmas – the cultural one.
I grew up with Christmas as a pure cultural holiday. Yeah, other parts of the family went to mass and all of that, but I didn’t. On Xmas eve we watched movies and drank hot chocolate and read Christmas stories. Some of the movies referenced Jesus but they were narrated by talking reindeer, so willful suspension of disbelief was fully engaged and the Jesus part just washed right over. There could have been zombies and Wookies in there and it’d all have made perfect sense somehow.
Now I go to mass almost every year. It’s fun. We sing and I see people I don’t get to see very often. Nothing wrong with being an atheist in a church. I think the true spirit of Christmas should be ‘don’t get a bug up your ass over every little thing’. Someone should make a children’s special with a song titled “Don’t get a bug up your ass, it’s Christmas” sung by reindeer with zombies and wookies, where Mayor Burgermeister Meisterburger is played by a not-veiled Bill O’Reilly and the Fox & Friends hate-triplets are his guards. I’d watch that. If it helps ratings, they could even airbrush out Gretchen Carlson’s nipples in order to make her topless.
Schlemizel
@TBogg:
No, you don’t understand – If I don’t like it and don’t want to accept it, it is by (my) definition FAKE.
You really need to start thinking like a real ‘Merkin ™
eemom
When my son was a baby his nanny was from Nigeria. I once wished her a Happy Kwanzaa and she had no idea what the hell I was talking about.
Martin
@ramalamadingdong:
Hmm. Cake is representative of local holidays. Global holidays tend to be pie-based. Birthday, wedding, etc. are local to you and a specific date – so, cake-based. Xmas, thanksgiving, etc. are global and set to a specific date – so, pie-based.
Mnemosyne
@Martin:
MST3K beat you to it (well, without the Wookies and zombies).
It was originally written to be a slam on 90s-style “political correctness,” but it has a very different target these days.
Schlemizel
@ramalamadingdong:
You mean you have not seen that hilarious video of the dreadful lady from food network making the Kwanza cake?
eemom
….and here’s another bit of trivia: I once worked with a guy who was a very devout Christian, but belonged to a sect — Calvinist perhaps? — that not only didn’t celebrate Christmas but regarded it as blasphemous to do so, because in their view the only holiday that is authorized by the Bible is the Sabbath.
For myself, aside from the “day off” part, all holidays can go to hell: they are ALL artificial constructs that are more trouble than they’re worth, and Christmas is at the top of the list.
Anne Laurie
@TBogg: Oh, sure, like anyone believes in that “TBogg” character — the only real entities on that site are the bassets, and the rumor is they live on a farm in Tuscany. (/snark)
RossinDetroit
I’d be a lot happier about the religious and secular Christmases if it wasn’t for Big Retail making it into an excuse to pick the pockets of the guilt-ridden.
Frikkin’ consumerism ruins every damn thing.
daveNYC
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t really see that making the holiday more popular. It’s only been around for 45 years and seems to be more of a ‘generic’ type African culture thing, than one that is tied into existing African cultures. So I’m not sure how many recent African immigrants might go for it. Could be wrong though.
slag
@Martin:
Interesting observation! I never noticed this before. But, now that I think about it, I’m not sure it holds up. Easter pie? Independence Day pie? I think the pie thing might be more related to the season in which the holiday is held. So, then, why cake at Kwanzaa? Just for differentiation purposes?
gelfling545
All holidays are “made up” to fill some cultural purpose. I suspect that the problem comes in when said holiday doesn’t have hundreds of years behind it. We seem more accepting of things made up long ago that of the more recent models.
Scott P.
Christmas has only been a major Christian holiday since the mid 19th century. Heck, in New England it was illegal to celebrate Christmas until (I believe) 1856.
RossinDetroit
@gelfling545:
Especially those made up in the media (especially especially TV). It takes a long time for personal traditions to travel through populations. Organized religion used to be the major vehicle for establishing holidays. Now it’s advertising pushing them* because TV has much better market saturation than religious attendance.
*Sweetest day.
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
He was probably a Jehovah’s Witness. They don’t believe in any holidays at all (including birthdays). There are also a few Baptist sects that don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter since they’re mostly pagan, but JWs are more common.
I once worked with a guy who was a Jehovah’s Witness and wanted to set up a meeting for 5 pm on Christmas Eve. He honestly did not understand why that would be a problem for the other people.
Mnemosyne
@Scott P.:
Not entirely true. Christmas celebrations were banned in New England because they got too pagan and wild in the old country (look up who the Lord of Misrule was sometime) and they wanted Christmas to be a time of quiet contemplation.
Charles Dickens sometimes gets the credit not for “inventing” Christmas, but what he really did was re-invent it as a family holiday rather than an excuse for two weeks of drunken revelry.
Chuck Butcher
I’d suppose that the difference between real and fake holidays is whether a bunch of shit is sold around its existance…
Mnemosyne
Also, too — if we still celebrated Christmas as two weeks of drunken revelry, I think a lot more people on here would be enthusiastic about it. :-)
RossinDetroit
Kwanzaa would be hugely popular if there was any dough to be made off of it. St. Valentine’s day started out being about a bishop who officiated the wrong sorts of weddings and had his hands chopped off. Now look.
Let Big Retail find a money angle, and Kwanzaa will be mandatory in a generation.
Anoniminous
Yet Another example of the deeply embedded anti-Scandinavian prejudices in the US.
No mention of Disirblot< and the practice of hanging a horse to Odin yet THOSE practices go back to the early Iron Age … if not the late Bronze Age.
Not even a God Jul.
For thousands of years Scandinavians have labored to ensure the end of winter and Sun’s Return. And what do we get?
Massive hangovers and a dead horse.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: A traditional Hessian Christmas.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Mnemosyne:
Jebus, I think every day is a drinking holiday in in the Balloon Juiciverse.
Martin
@slag:
Probably from where it originated. Cakes were very difficult to make a century ago. Leavening agents like yeast weren’t readily available (if you bake a LOT you can actually make bread/cake from natural yeast captured from the air, left over from all of your previous baking, and this is how it was often done – so baking needed to be concentrated) and ovens weren’t commonly owned. But pies were pedestrian. Anyone with a fireplace could make them, and they are simple – flour and fat and a filling (probably from the source of the fat). So, holidays that everyone celebrates needed a dessert that everyone could make. But for individual holidays, people wanted something special – and cakes were special. You had to go to bakery for them, and they were expensive (that’s why ‘let them eat cake’ has the meaning it does – commoners even in the best of times couldn’t afford cake as a dessert, let alone as a substitute for proper food.) So they were a natural item for weddings. And then for birthdays as they became affordable. But individuals got to choose and break tradition, whereas broad holidays go with tradition even as alternatives spring up. In Europe, cakes became popular earlier simply because the continent is more condensed, with more established cities than in the US where we had this massive frontier with no infrastructure whatsoever, and certainly no bakeries. If you lived in Nebraska, you were probably lucky to even have a bakery within a day’s ride until the mid to late 19th century. In Europe you had bakeries everywhere hundred and hundreds of years earlier.
Kwanzaa being a modern holiday meant they could choose anything they want – and pies and cakes are in modern times equal. But I’ve never been to an Independence Day party that didn’t have pies – usually fresh-fruit summer pies, like strawberry or blueberry. Easter is a bit of an outlier in many ways, so I don’t think it proves or disproves a trend.
moonbat
The timing of Christmas was set up to co-op Saturnalia. Scholars actually think the historic Jesus was born in July. So Christmas has simply been a “made-up holiday” long enough so people don’t question it. Let Kwanza hang on for a few centuries and it will be the same thing. “Made Up” is just shorthand for “It started in my lifetime.”
Maus
@daveNYC: Yeah, I don’t see why any recent African immigrants would be necessarily interested in amalgams like Kwanzaa over their own traditions. I’m sure there are exceptions, of course.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@moonbat:
Or the birthday of Mithras…But there were numerous festivals all over the Northern Hemisphere just after the winter solstice celebrating the return of the Sun that pre-date the Roman Pantheon of gods and/or Mithras.
Mnemosyne
@moonbat:
I thought it was April. Hence the reason the shepherds are “watching their flocks by night” when they see the angel — they’re keeping an eye on the spring lambing. Lambing is over and done with by July, so there’s no need to constantly watch the flocks to keep the predators at bay like there is in the spring.
ETA: Of course, that could be more retconning by the early Christians to emphasize the “lamb of God” imagery, so who knows?
Cain
I wish Hindus had a holiday we could celebrate. Unfortunately, from Dec 15 – Jqan 15, you can’t celebrate anything. It is not considered auspicious. So that means, that you can’t have weddings, buy a house, or any of that.
Meh.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Mnemosyne:
Positive shepherding imagery goes waaaay back to the pre-Israelite Semites (Abraham’s tribe, not the language group). Don’t forget that Cain, the farmer, watered his fields with the blood of his brother, Abel, the shepherd.
If you read enough Daniel Quinn and think about it long and hard, you might come to the conclusion that Christ himself, the Shepherd of Men, wasn’t talking about a paradise in the afterlife, but a return to the pre-agruculturalist lifestyle practiced by nomadic shepherds like the Semites, a return to the Garden of Eden here on Earth.
MonkeyBoy
@Mnemosyne:
It used to be (hundreds of years ago) that holidays were the only time most people got drunk because it was permissible and expected then. Weekly or forbid daily drunkenness was not common.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@MonkeyBoy:
Or maybe not, considering that- especially in urban areas- fresh water sources were often polluted with human and animal (he added redundantly) waste.
ETA: That is, damned near everyone drank alcohol.
There’s a reason, I think, that scripture portrays Christ as changing the water to wine, and it isn’t completely hedonistic.
Jay C
Yeah! Why do think we all come here????
MattMinus
I’m not sure I’d agree with the choice of the word “fake”, but I understand the sentiment. While all holidays are “made up” at some point, I think the difference with the “real” holidays is that they 1)are kind of organic traditions that come from the bottom up rather than the top down 2)have some kind of cultural traction.
Kwanzaa seems to be more a stab at weird academic social engineering than anything. Is it really reflective of anything other than it’s inventors beliefs about the way things should be? Did he ever really have much of a constituency?
From a deep wikipedia investigation, it seems that an incredibly small number of people actually observe it, especially in relation to the amount of lip service it gets from the broader culture. If NBC news stopped tacking it on to their stock holiday greetings, would it vanish?
RossinDetroit
Back in April I was around a Tamil group throwing a New Year bash. It was fabulous. Great music, food, everyone having a ball, awesome clothes. Makes a typical Western New Year’s party look pretty feeble by comparison. I’m not much of a partier but I may seek this out in a few months for the entertainment value.
Svensker
@Anoniminous:
It’s the lutefisk.
Marci Kiser
@ Maus
You make a fair point – my comment was in the context of providing some kind of alternative vocabulary to John’s ‘made-up’ vs. ‘real’ holidays, which he realized were poor descriptors.
Given that holidays by definition draw their validity from the opinions of the societies in which they are celebrated (which is why we no longer see much attention paid to, say, Sham el Nessim), then my informed opinion on the matter of Kwanzaa is as valid as anyone else’s. I maintain that there is a demonstrable difference between Kwanzaa and Yom Kippur or Easter, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise.
Your comment about the ‘co-option’ of Kwanzaa as a replacement/addition to Christmas, however, seems backwards. Given that what you are describing was the clearly articulated reason for the holiday’s founding, ‘co-option’ is what is happening when celebrants today turn Kwanzaa towards more noble purposes.
This, it goes without saying, is of course a good thing, as is any tradition that is able to overcome its shabby origins.
Mary
@moonbat: Io Saturnalia!
Brachiator
@John Cole:
So very true.
A great post, John. A wonderful retort to all the crabbed BS about the phony war on Xmus, and a very thoughtful rejection of the “my holiday is more authentic than yours” crap.
Having some router issues, but I hope someone noted that one of the Seinfeld writers claims that Festivus was based on an actual, eccentric, family celebration.
And isn’t there some Jedi celebration also happening this time of year?
And goodness knows what the Sith are up to.
Maus
@Marci Kiser:
Eh, I just don’t see that differences make it less “real” than any other ritual.
How is commercialization ennobling? That and mainstream adoption would seem to defeat the entire effing purpose of the holiday.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
It’s pretty hard to have Jesus and all that if your deities are aliens who arrived by spaceship. Well on second thought…
Mary
@Mnemosyne:
Wait…there are people who DON’T celebrate Christmas as two weeks of drunken revelry?
Maus
@Ruckus: Technically all religious figures were holograms imprinted onto humanity. Though technically L Ron also said historical Jesus was a pedophile, so IDK.
Brachiator
@Marci Kiser:
You have got to be kidding. At one time, Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism were “made up” religions, reactions to older traditions. You can even throw in Protestantism and Mormonism.
The only thing that a religious practice requires to become “authentic” is adherents and time.
Ruckus
@Maus:
Technically all religious figures were holograms imprinted onto humanity
I’d go for hallucinations over holograms.
As far as L Ron goes he was either batshit crazy or a better joke writer than anyone in centuries.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator:
We know they’re not campaigning in Iowa. No one in the current GOP field has the cojones to be a Sith.
Cheney must be despondent right now.
Marci Kiser
@Brachiator
You seem to be conflating religions and holidays, which isn’t a very tenable equation to make. Nevertheless, I would agree that authentic holidays also require only “adherents and time”. In fact, it is because holidays like Kwanzaa lack either in any appreciable amount that it’s marginal.
@Maus
Fair enough. There’s not really a right or wrong answer on the matter, as we’ve both said. When I was referring to ennobling the holiday towards more positive ends, I was thinking of comments like that of ramalamadingdong at #56, not the domestication of commercialization of the holiday.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
Or one or more of the GOP contenders is scared Sithless that they will be called before Darth Cheney and hear, “You have failed me for the last time.”. I got money on Newt. Maybe Perry.
HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist
@MattMinus: I understand your point, but by your criteria I don’t see how Mothers Day or Fathers Day is any less “fake”. They were manufactured in the last century and only became successful through heavy promotion.
Mnemosyne
@Marci Kiser:
The demonstrable difference in your examples is being based in a religion. Otherwise you would have talked about the demonstrable difference between Kwanzaa and Thanksgiving, a secular holiday.
The word “holiday” may originate from “holy day,” but there is a very big difference between the religious celebration of Easter in various Christian churches and the cultural celebration of Easter with bunnies and chocolate.
Mnemosyne
Though I do miss having lamb cake at my grandmother’s for Easter. (No, not cake made out of lamb — a cake in the shape of a lamb.)
Ohio Mom
@Martin: re: “I think the true spirit of Christmas should be ‘don’t get a bug up your ass over every little thing’.”
Sponge Bob communicates this very well in his classic, “Don’t be a Jerk, It’s Christmas.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-TxZiVi5Is
Ohio Mom
that should be in [Sponge Bob’s] classic song. For some reason, I’m not being allowed to edit my last comment.
Plantsmantx
@ramalamadingdong:
Of course there’s a Kwanzaa cake:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/videos/kwanzaa-cake/1455.html
Glen Tomkins
You had me going until the end there. The problem is that it’s game over when the trumpet sounds, so we don’t talk about trumpets sounding in a religious context anywhere around Christmas, Hannukkah, Kwanzaa or the Winter Solstice.
moderateindy
Working with a large amount of black people and Africans I found it interesting that nobody seemed to give a rat’s rear about Kwanzaa. Although most of the Africans are Muslim, so I don’t know if they feel that it clashes with their faith. These are exactly the type of people that you would expect to observe Kwanzaa. Most have college degrees, are middle class, and are socially conscious enough to work for a community agency in a large city. They respected the ideals behind the holiday, but most knew the actual details about it as well as I did.
Basically, the African American’s attitude was that they already had enough crap to deal with since it was Xmas and they didn’t need to add to the aggravation by stuffing another holiday into the mix.
Montarvillois
Can’t Happy Festivus cover all bases?
4jkb4ia
Nice thought, John, but Hanukkah was covered by Anne Laurie and Tom Levenson on the first day and you simply weren’t paying attention to your own blog. If I can wish SEK a merry Christmas, snarky as that was, I can wish you a happy last day of Hanukkah. Anything fried in oil is traditional to eat.
When I was involved in Mentor St. Louis, every December the book to be read with the kid was about Kwanzaa, because it sidestepped any religious holidays. And Kwanzaa did not seem to mean anything to the kid from one year to the next. Kwanzaa is not fake, but maybe in another generation the way of thinking about black identity that it came out of will not mean as much.
Maus
@moderateindy:
Well, it would seem to be a more “family” holiday to educate the kids about pan-African culture and the importance of black community. There are many other ways to do that.
@Plantsmantx: Hah, but this has as much to do with the holiday as her pig gelatin-enrichened Hanukkah cake.
I swear to god, she is such a fucking train wreck.
Sondra
I use MerryChristmaHanukKwanzica. It works for me.