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You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute / Shame on a blogger

Shame on a blogger

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Kudos to mistermix and Stephen L. Taylor for their coverage of Ron Paul’s crazy-ass racist, anti-Semitic newsletter. And shame on on Sully, EDK, and Young Conor for pulling their ridiculous Paul-endorsement stunt.

I understand supporting Ron Paul’s non-interventionist foreign policy ideas. That’s fine. But it’s pathetic when bloggers with reasonably large traffic (with the possible exception of EDK) decide to dick their readers around with some poorly thought-out “endorsement” of an unhinged fringe candidate just because that seems like the cool, attention-getting contrarian thing to do.

They can call it “thinking out loud” or whatever they want. I call it narcissistic and self-indulgent. This represents everything I despise about “serious” conservatism: splashy-but-mindless position-taking, faux courage, a childish infatuation with “great men”.

Reader Interactions

210Comments

  1. 1.

    forked tongue

    This represents everything I despise about conservatism: splashy-but-mindless position-taking, faux courage, a childish infatuation with “great men”.

    That’s everything? Aw come on, you haven’t even gotten started yet!

  6. 6.

    slag

    This represents everything I despise about conservatism: splashy-but-mindless position-taking, faux courage, a childish infatuation with “great men”.

    Sing it! While I agree with @forked tongue that the list is incomplete, it’s hard not to see all other sins flowing from this polluted source.

  7. 7.

    Steeplejack

    A few typos, DougJ:

    when bloggers with reasonably large large traffic

    They can call it “thinking out loud”

    I call it narcissistic and self-indulgent.

    For bonus points, you don’t need hyphens in “splashy but mindless,” and get your periods and commas inside your quotation marks.

    Yes, I’m in a nitpicky copyediting mood tonight, but as a stylist who prides himself on such constructions as “Has any of you read . . .,” you should appreciate the niceties.

    Content-wise, good post.

  16. 16.

    dmsilev

    Well, you have to appreciate their dilemma. They can’t endorse Romney because he’s a mainstream Republican with all the charisma of a cinder block and that’s just not cool. They can’t endorse Huntsman because nobody has ever heard of him (hmm, the next hipster fad perhaps?). They can’t endorse Perry, Newt, Bachman, or Santorum because even “serious conservatives” can see that that set is nuts.

    So, logically, all that’s left is Ron Paul. Or, you know, Barack Obama, but that’s crazy talk.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    cool, attention-getting contrarian

    Sad to say, but I don’t necessarily think that’s an infatuation limited to conservative voices.

  20. 20.

    PK

    So which Republican candidate do you think they ought to endorse?

    I’ll answer that. None. They should vote for Obama. If they had any sense in those empty heads they would realise that the republican party is insane and should never encourage anyone to cast a vote for it. If I had a choice between a sane republican president and 6 loony democrats I’d go for the republican. What is so difficult about putting country before crazy party?

  21. 21.

    Midnight Marauder

    @Steve:

    So which Republican candidate do you think they ought to endorse?

    Why do they even need to endorse a Republican candidate? Why do they even feel a need to associate their names with The Great Clown Show?

  22. 22.

    Cat Lady

    It must just suck, suck some more, and then really really suck to not be a total moronic fucktard and want to identify as a Republican, hence the desperate Ron Paul wishful thinking. It is pathetic. Heckuva job, Sully and Wannabe-Sully.

  24. 24.

    suzanne

    But it’s pathetic when bloggers with reasonably large traffic (with the possible exception of EDK) decide to dick their readers around with some poorly thought-out “endorsement” of an unhinged fringe candidate just because that seems like the cool, attention-getting contrarian thing to do.

    Damnit, Doug. Now you’ve summoned her.

    (Keenly aware that I just referred to FourLoko the way Gollum does so to Shelob. Purely coincidental.)

  26. 26.

    FlipYrWhig

    @PK: To be fair, they’re not necessarily saying that they’d cast their votes for the guy, rather that he’s the best alternative among the options currently circulating.

  28. 28.

    Samara Morgan

    @slag: who is EDK?
    some gems.

    Omnes Omnibus – April 29, 2011 | 7:27 pm · Link
    __
    Cheers, if m_c turns out to have been right and you were “head faking,” we will find you and punch you in the neck. Otherwise, fair winds and calm seas to you.

    JGabriel – April 29, 2011 | 8:16 pm · Link
    __
    @JFitz:
    … it was breathtaking to watch Flagstaff convert you into a DFH in record time.
    It was US who converted him, goddammit! What’s with giving Flagstaff the credit?

    Villago Delenda Est – April 29, 2011 | 8:43 pm · Link
    __
    EDK: Good luck with your future endeavors. It was a very pleasant surprise to see you once relent from the position you took in a front page post, in the comments. I frankly did not expect that. It indicates that you’re not as wedded to the ideology as some people (whistles casually) around here seem to think.
    __
    Of course, this means you are no longer of The Body…you are a “liberal”. With all the terrible baggage that entails.

    suzanne – April 29, 2011 | 9:56 pm · Link
    __
    Awww, E.D., I hope you didn’t take my calling you an asshole PERSONALLY! I say that to EVERYONE I like!
    __
    In all seriousness, I’ll miss ya ‘round these parts. I’m really busy with work myself, and I don’t get as much blog time as I’d like, so I probably won’t read much of your stuff. Plus, I’ll miss watching m_c get the tremors every time you post. God, that amused me NO END.
    __
    Us liberal Arizona people gonna stick together, you know. All five of us. ;)

    Stupid Teucrians.
    ;)

  29. 29.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Jebediah: Who was kind of the flavor of the month as a “thoughtful conservative” voice. Like that guy “Tacitus” was once. Or that other guy, I think maybe it was “Jon Kohl.” Whatever happened to him? Eaten by his cat?

  33. 33.

    Waldo

    There was one election year (’96?) when the Washington Post refused to endorse anyone for prez. That just led to criticism that the paper was shirking its responsibility. Go figure.

  35. 35.

    slag

    @FlipYrWhig: True. But you’d be more respectable if you said you’d rather vote for a flock of headless chickens than for this bunch of Republican geeks. And respectability should be a core competency of these so-called serious people (“should” being the operative word there).

  37. 37.

    Warren Terra

    @slag

    and get your periods and commas inside your quotation marks.

    Don’t do it, DougJ! Fight the power!

    I’m with slag on this one. I know punctuation within the quotation marks is the rule, but it makes no goddam sense. The rule should be changed, and I for one only follow the rule when writing very formally (which I rarely do in a form that uses quotations).

  38. 38.

    eemom

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Good sir, you don’t often do this, but you are missing the point. The point is that by “endorsing” ANY among the sicko psycho clown brigade which is the disgraceful “best” that the republican party has to offer, they are implicitly according that choice an undeserved status as a legitimate and respectable alternative candidate for the presidency — when what they should be doing, were they intellectually honest, is pointing out the gaping absence of such an alternative.

  40. 40.

    BruinKid

    I’ve written this up to respond to that Ron Paul fan I know who complained that I was calling Ron Paul a racist. Whaddaya guys think?

    Gee, let’s see, just where did I or that link I provided ever call Ron Paul a racist? Don’t put words in my mouth that I never said. The issue here is that he isn’t being truthful now when he claims he knew nothing about those newsletters and was simply “negligent”, when we have him ON VIDEO from 1995 proudly talking about publishing them. I’m saying he needs to come up with a better explanation when asked about this.
    __
    __Actually, my opinion is that he didn’t actually write most of the pieces in his newsletter. But I also believe he DOES know who wrote them (my money’s on Lew Rockwell), and is pretending that he has no clue how those pieces got into his newsletter. Regardless, he still disseminated them and made a nice profit from those pieces. The kindest explanation shows a serious lack of judgment and ability to manage on his part, and does raise doubts about his being fit to be President.
    __
    __I know you guys desperately want to change the subject and divert it to Obama, but hey, you were complaining earlier about the lack of any media scrutiny about Ron Paul. Part of the media attention means focusing on a candidate’s past actions and behaviors. Or how about his CURRENT behavior of siding with the nutjobs at the John Birch Society, founded by the Koch brothers’ dad? You know, the group that still opposes the Civil Rights Act, thinks Eisenhower was a Communist spy, and thinks fluoride in our water is also a Communist plot to brainwash us? He just spoke at the Society’s 50th anniversary dinner.
    __
    __Or how about his refusal to disavow the support he’s getting from the white supremacist movement? I make no claim as to whether or not he is a racist (none of us can truly know what’s in his heart), but he sure is popular with Stormfront and other white supremacist groups. Why is it that they keep gravitating towards him? It’s like this picture from The Simpsons; just replace Fox News with Ron Paul.
    __
    __One of the Stormfront people wrote about Paul: “He promotes agendas and ideas that allow [White] Nationalism to flourish” as the reason they love him so much.
    __
    __So yes, I’d love to talk about the issues. I’ve said before that Paul is better than Obama on civil liberties. (BTW, when it comes to war, quick quiz, between Obama and Paul, which one voted to use military force in Afghanistan?) But that doesn’t excuse his batshit insane domestic policies, where he’s almost exactly like Michele Bachmann. He wants to not just reduce, but eliminate, the corporate tax rate. He’s OK with Citizens United, so corporations can then basically buy politicians and elections. He’s a doctor but doesn’t believe in evolution. He not only wants to overturn Roe, but wants to make abortion illegal in all 50 states. He doesn’t believe climate change is happening. He said he wouldn’t have killed bin Laden, and instead worked with Pakistan to arrest him, when we KNOW there were Pakistani officials in cahoots with bin Laden, so that he would’ve been alerted to any police action and been able to escape before it happened. He wants anyone to be able to print their own money on the gold standard, which shows he has no understanding of the Panic of 1837, or of the boom and bust cycles we used to experience. He wants to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. He wants to get rid of the EPA and let the 50 states decide their own pollution standards, which is also completely batshit insane because air particles don’t care about state borders.

    Keep in mind I’m talking to a rabid Ron Paul supporter who is young, has a college degree, likes the weed, and is Muslim.

  42. 42.

    eemom

    @Warren Terra:

    Thirded. Much as I am sometimes a stickler for “proper” usage, I totally draw the line at rules that make no sense, and when quotation marks logically belong inside the punctuation, that is where I put them.

  43. 43.

    Comrade Luke

    Here’s what I find interesting. Years and years ago, Ron Paul had batshit ideas, which people already knew about, and yet here he is running for President and getting endorsements.

    Can’t Rand Paul do the same thing? Seriously, how much more ridiculous are his views versus those of his own father, and he’s already in the Senate!

    Or does the era of the internet and instant information change things?

  44. 44.

    FlipYrWhig

    @eemom: Oh, don’t get me wrong, I think they’re doing libertarian one-up-manship in the usual way. I’m much more bothered by the flirtation with Paul among self-avowed champions of civil liberties.

  45. 45.

    Xboxershorts

    Name another candidate that would end the war on drugs.

    Seriously, nothing says FU to the American corporate militarized police state more than that. And it REALLY IS a big fucking deal.

    Not saying I’d vote for him. I think he’s totally bonkers in re economics. And I personally don’t think he’s racist, but along with his homophobia, he’s got a serious issue with race-a-phobia too.

    But ending the war on drugs alone would make him popular with civil libertarians and a subset of progressives.

  47. 47.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Xboxershorts: Just for kicks, how do you think President Paul would accomplish this “ending the war on drugs,” and why would it be any more successful than Obama’s promise-slash-attempt to shutter Guantanamo?

  48. 48.

    dedc79

    and let’s not forget that beyond the racism and homophobia, there’s his not-quite-so libertarian view that women are mere fetus vessels.

  50. 50.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @DougJ:

    Thanks, I’m on a new keyboard and having some issues.

    Oh gods, it’s the old I’m-on-a-new-keyboard-and-having-some-issues excuse.

  52. 52.

    eemom

    @Samara Morgan:

    I don’t think it was quite a year. Six or eight months maybe.

    In any event it is important to pin down exactly HOW long he was here — months, weeks, days, hours — and also, the EXACT number of times your sweet little ass was so very wrongfully time-outed for dissing him. Very important indeed. For posterity, you know.

    Can you research those numbers and get back to us?

  53. 53.

    slag

    @dedc79: Now now…we all know that issue has nothing to do with sexism. Sometimes, you just have to destroy the woman to save the fetus. Nothing personal.

  60. 60.

    Cassidy

    @BruinKid: Embrace the terminology. Ron Paul is a racist in that he supports systemic policies that would negatively affect minorities. He may not be a bigot, but he is surely a racist.

  61. 61.

    MikeJ

    @Warren Terra: Amen. Punctuation goes inside quotes if it was in the original. If it’s added by the quoter, it should go outside the quotes.

    I realise Strunk & White don’t like it. Fuck them.

  62. 62.

    Jebediah

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Or that other guy, I think maybe it was “Jon Kohl.” Whatever happened to him? Eaten by his cat?

    I was at a restaurant in Michigan last week that had a dish called “John Cole” on the dessert menu.

  63. 63.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @DougJ:

    But (I really should have asked this first), how do you like the new MacBook Air? Apart from the mousing probs, I mean. May one assume it was a Xmas gift?

  64. 64.

    Southern Beale

    @Cassidy:

    Um, no. He’s a bigot, too. Sorry, but let’s just call it a day on this one, shall we? He refused to use a gay man’s bathroom and wouldn’t shake a gay man’s hand, is personally uncomfortable around gay people but thinks they should be allowed to do whatever they want in the privacy of their homes? Well that’s mighty white of him, isn’t it?

    Give me a fucking break.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    @Warren Terra:

    Why should rule be spelled “rule” instead of “rool”? It makes no goddamn sense and should be changed!

    The rules are agreed-upon conventions, and, like it or not, flouting them subtly undermines your prose, to a greater or lesser degree. In this case, a very lesser degree, but still.

    Yes, it’s a very minor point for a casual blog. And I will continue to read (and enjoy) your semiliterate scrawlings regardless of where you put your quotation marks. :-)

  66. 66.

    Samara Morgan

    @kdaug: would you like SOME MOAR?

    asiangrrlMN – April 30, 2011 | 12:50 am · Link
    __
    Good luck, E.D. Continue to grow and expand.

    geg6 – April 29, 2011 | 9:31 pm · Link
    __
    Happy trails, ED. You’re the not-the-worst-libertarian now and that’s progress that I got to see happen. I really appreciate that you actually can evolve and learn since you’re the very first libertarian (who didn’t give it up as total childish silliness by college graduation) who I’ve ever known who managed that little trick. Gave me a little more faith in mankind than I’ve had in at least thirty years. Hope you’ll stop back now and then.

  67. 67.

    Mary G

    I read EDK at the League of Ordinary Gentlemen before and after he came here and I just can’t include him with Sullivan and Young Conor. He is often wrong and falls into the bad habit of reciting talking points as if they were facts, but he is thoughtful and capable of listening to opposing viewpoints and even changing his mind. The Ron Paul endorsement was appalling, but he walked it back the most, and he apologized to mistermix. Can you ever imagine Andrew or Conor starting out a post with

    First things first, I’d like to apologize to mistermix for the rudeness of my last piece on the matter. Mainly I was feeling jaded over various Twitter exchanges that occurred prior to my reading his post, and it simply opened whatever petty wound I’d been smarting over. It was an uncharitable response, and not really […]

    Honestly, would that or anything remotely like it come from Andrew or Conor? Even if hell froze over? No.

    Of course, now he is on the Gary Johnson/Jon Huntsman fallback, candidates with many positions I find appalling as well, but not as throw-up-in-your-mouth disgusting as Ron Paul’s.

  70. 70.

    Cacti

    Ron Paul is another example of how far personality can carry you in national politics.

    His aw-shucks, grandfatherly personality does a lot to hide the fact that he’s a neo-confederate fringe nutter.

  72. 72.

    slag

    @Warren Terra: My antipathies collided when I looked up path dependence in Wikipedia and saw it there. It was a revelation for me. And even if the wiki article is not technically true (I haven’t gone beyond wikipedia to find out), it’s true enough to be believable. So, I’m leaving it at that. Peculiar rule comes from peculiar constraints? Yeah…I’ll buy that.

  73. 73.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @eemom:

    Can you research those numbers and get back to us?

    It’s far more likely that Ron Paul will come clean about all those newsletters back in the 90’s that he either didn’t write or allowed some unknown gnome to write for him that he didn’t read.

  75. 75.

    Alan in SF

    Every bad thing you say about Ron Paul and his dilettante supporters is true…but it wouldn’t hurt to cross over and vote for him in Republican primaries, would it?

  77. 77.

    Samara Morgan

    @eemom: i just membah the time i got banned for pointing out EDK’s Jen rubin moment on Utoya.
    that was epic.
    EDK couldnt pass for liberal even with mixie and dougj wet-nursing him 24/7.

    tolejasotolejasotolejaso.

    you also are are a stupid teucrian cow, just like suzanne.
    ;)

  79. 79.

    Kola Noscopy

    What’s with the BJ obsession with Ron Paul?

    The chances of him being nominated by the Repukes are very small. Even if he was, I assume that’s good news for Obama supporters.

    So what’s with the 24/7 hysteria? Is there nothing else to write about?

  80. 80.

    Jebediah

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Did you try it? We had to rush out without dessert, but even if we had stayed, I might have felt squeamish about ordering it. On the other hand, had I tried it, I could claim to read AND eat JC.

  82. 82.

    slag

    @Steeplejack:

    The rules are agreed-upon conventions, and, like it or not, flouting them subtly undermines your prose, to a greater or lesser degree.

    blah blah blah…

    Some rules are more arbitrary than others.

  83. 83.

    Cassidy

    @Kola Noscopy: Laughing hysterically is not the same as hysteria. The only disagreement , re: GOP Primary, is which one of these clowns would be the most entertaining to watch in the national election.

  84. 84.

    Samara Morgan

    @THE: bulshytt.
    edk is a b-list blogger that leveraged Cole’s good nature into a paying gig at forbes.
    while spoofing 90% of the juicitariat with his fake conversion reality show…

    im a troll with no blog and a 160 IQ……. and a cassandra.
    zero isomorphism.
    fuck off spock.

  86. 86.

    Xboxershorts

    @FlipYrWhig: It’s an executive branch policy. End that policy….*poof* War on drugs over.

    IANAL….but it is executive branch.

    But that’s not the point. Just campaigning on that would add popularity. And THAT is the point.

  87. 87.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Comrade Luke:

    Ron Paul and Rand Paul are from different states. Is there any Constitutional reason why — in the wildly unlikely event that Ron gets the GOP nom — he should not select his son as his running mate?

    Paul-Paul 2012.

    . Has a kind of ring to it.

    :: hums Way Down Yonder by the Paul-Paul Tree

  88. 88.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Comrade Luke:

    Ron Paul and Rand Paul are from different states. Is there any Constitutional reason why — in the wildly unlikely event that Ron gets the GOP nom — he should not select his son as his running mate?

    Paul-Paul 2012.

    . Has a kind of ring to it.

    :: hums :: Way Down Yonder by the Paul-Paul Tree

  90. 90.

    Samara Morgan

    @arguingwithsignposts: untrue.
    initially i got banned for hatin’ on missionaries on the Evil Black Poor Muslim Somali Pirates Kill Noble White Rich Christian American Missionaries thread.

    jus’ ax Cole.

  94. 94.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Jebediah:

    I think I did. I think it was delicious. The menu description (I took a picture of the menu but don’t have Flickr so cannot show you here) reads: John Cole Vanilla ice cream with caramel sauce And roasted cinnamon rum pecans.

    SRSLY, who could resist?

  96. 96.

    jrg

    @Xboxershorts:

    Name another candidate that would end the war on drugs.

    Yep. That’s why I’d love to see Paul do well. I would never vote for him, but the WOD needs to go. I don’t pay taxes to put non-violent people in prison, and create a black market that kills thousands south of our border. That whole notion is evil, stupid, and absurd.

  98. 98.

    Loneoak

    More than his racism, homophobia, and gold-buggery, I think what disqualifies him is his batshit views on the Constitution, particularly supporting repeal of the 14th Amendment.

  100. 100.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Xboxershorts: Parliamentary procedure isn’t my strong suit, but I have to think that — just as happened with Guantanamo — Congress would simply yank on the purse strings and prevent the new Paulist drug policy from being adopted. In which case it would be a promise unfulfilled.

  102. 102.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Redstate has been on an AntiPaul rant since he picked up in the polls. The whole mess over there is a nightmare to behold but I. Can’t. Stop. Reading. It. The ‘big boys’ over there are solidly behind Perry and their membership is as fractured (and fractious) as hell. Paul is hated with the heat of a thousand blazing suns, as is Romney, but these two are looking good.

    This is giving them nightmares. They are angry as hell about the mess everything is in and they are blaming the politicians and big mouths on air for causing it all. The disarray on the right is truly a beautiful yet horrendous sight to behold.

    I hope it snowballs from now to November as that would be one fucking huge snowball!

    OT:

    It occurred to me today that Parker Brothers/Milton Bradley needs to update the game of Monopoly. In the game players act as the bank to complete financial transactions and in the end, winner takes all. An updated version of the game would have, in addition to the regular players, a Banker, a Politician, a Stock Broker, an Employer and a Rich Guy. The roles of the new players would be:

    Banker: Conducts financial transactions, skimming a good percentage off of the buyer and seller in each transaction. Maintains player accounts, changing terms and charging extra fees as necessary. At game start the Banker holds all of the money and property but no money of their own, making their money by selling their property, account fees and fees on financial transactions.

    Employer: The regular players will have a job at game start and earn an income as the game progresses. Pay will be determined by the Politician. The Employer starts the game with whatever the Rich Guy gives them to fund the business, but no money of his own. The Employees can not unionize and may be fired at will. Unemployment is offered but only under certain conditions and it only lasts for four trips around the board unless the politician decides to extend it (eg: in an attempt to force a bribe from the Employer and the Rich Guy). The Employer makes their money by keeping whatever they don’t spend on employees and levies, plus investing and buying property for personal use.

    Politician: Sets Employee pay level, unemployment compensation, taxes and levies. Changes the rules in the game to favor anyone they wish to, whenever they wish and for whatever reason they wish to. The politician may favor any player(s) in the game as they conduct their business but they are not allowed to excessively tax or bankrupt the Rich Guy, Banker, Stock Broker or Employer. The Politician starts the game with no money of their own, making their money on selling rule changes (bribes). The Politician sets the Employment Terms and Unemployment Compensation rate, funding the compensation with levies on the Rich Guy and Employer. These levies can be manipulated by the Politician to ‘encourage’ the Employer and Rich Guy to bribe him for a rule change.

    Stock Broker: Sells stocks and bonds to all game players. He decides stock price movement and all transaction terms. Those terms may differ from player to player as the Stock Broker sees fit. The Stock Broker starts the game with their stocks and no money of their own. They make their money by scamming the regular players, bribes and skimming a bit off the top from the Politician, Banker, Employer and Rich Guy. Insider trading is allowed at the discretion of the Politician.

    Rich Guy: Starts the game with 90% of the money. He can buy properties whenever he wants and for whatever he wants to offer. If the property owner won’t sell, the rich Guy can either bribe the politician to seize the property (eminent domain) or offer a large sum of money to seller if the politician can’t be bribed or wants too much for the bribe.

    Since the outcome of the game would be preordained (the Rich Guy, Politician, Stock Broker and Employer all win), the ‘winner’ is the last regular player to be bankrupted.

    Call it Ogilalopy. ;)

  104. 104.

    FlipYrWhig

    @jrg: Do you really think that the same Democratic senators that drag their feet on all things sensible would vote in favor of rolling back the drug war? Much less the Republicans? Is the point to get airtime for the cause, or to actually make a change that sticks? I have a hard time believing that the latter is a possibility.

  105. 105.

    slag

    @Steeplejack: Admit it. You’re just jealous that your occupation won’t allow you to take a walk on the wild side every now and again. You’re trapped in a world run by reactionary prigs and are afraid of what’s outside.

    But you should try it, Steeplejack. You know you want to. Try it just once and see if you like it. And if you don’t like it, you won’t ever have to do it again. We won’t tell.

  107. 107.

    jomike

    Okay, I just lurk here and maybe I’m clueless about inside-baseball stuff, but can somebody please ‘splain me:

    a) why a contrarian-minded conservative wouldn’t endorse Huntsman or (if one really must go out on the contrarian limb) Gary Johnson?

    and

    b) how on Google’s green earth could well-established, allegedly-astute observers like Sullivan and Kain *not* know about Paul’s long history or winking at and rubbing elbows with survivalists and racist nutjobs?

  110. 110.

    Villago Delenda Est

    OK, so I’ve been contemplating (something Rick Perry can’t do) what Star Trek universe race m_c is from. She’s not easy to pigeonhole, you can’t just call her a Romulan or a Ferengi.

    I’m thinking she’s a cross between a Pakled and a Betazoid; she can read minds, but not very well, and as a result her pronouncements don’t seem to have a whole lot of grounding in reality.

    Also, she’s partial to short phrases like “make it go” and “cudlip”.

  112. 112.

    Weldon Berger

    @Jebediah: Ah. Thank you. I should also have asked who Young Conor is too, I guess. I’m so far out of the loop. I do know Sullivan, of course, and I’m at a loss as to why anybody is still calling shame on him. If the first zillion times didn’t take …

  113. 113.

    Mnemosyne

    @Xboxershorts:

    It’s an executive branch policy. End that policy….*poof* War on drugs over.

    WTF are you talking about? You’ve never heard of the Controlled Substances Act, so therefore the thousands of federal and state-level drug laws must have been created by the executive branch?

    You, sir or madam, are an idiot.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    @slag:

    Uh, I’m pretty sure Steeplejack’s occupation is bookstore clerk (unless I’m mixing him up with someone else).

  117. 117.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Loneoak:

    There are such a plethora of reasons why he’s not qualified to be President, that one could spend hours outlining and then explaining them all.

    There’s the failure to understand the 14th Amendment, certainly. There’s also the gold bug nonsense which demonstrates zero familiarity with economic history, and then there’s one of his crowning fuckups: not getting why the US fought Germany in WWII. It wasn’t to save those horrible Jews, I’ll tell you that right now, and all you have to do is look at some of the indifference to the plight of the Jews in pre-war Germany (the St. Louis, anyone?) and a staunch refusal to accept intelligence reports of what “resettlement to the East” actually meant.

    Then of course there’s his position on evolution, on global climate change, on abortion…well, I could go on and on and on without even touching on his slight credibility problem with the entire newsletter kerfuffle.

  118. 118.

    Cassidy

    calling everyone cows

    God, what are you reading now. At least provide us the key to decipher what you’re talking about.

    @slag: Nice set up. Bravo.

  119. 119.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @slag: Breaking the rules can be done to great effect, but, of course, one must first know the rules in order to do it properly.

  122. 122.

    Mark S.

    @DougJ:

    Isn’t Gary Johnson just as libertarian as Ron Paul but without the racism? And he was actually a two term governor, not some crackpot legislator who never passed a bill in the however many fucking decades he was in the House.

    I don’t know a thing about Buddy Roemer.

  125. 125.

    wilfred

    Please direct me to the outrage when Joe Biden said: “I am a zionist” – bigotry at best, racism at worst. Or when Hillary Clinton has prayer breakfasts with this crowd:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_%28Christian_organization%29

    Nah. To state Paul’s policy as ‘non-interventionist’ is nice framing. Better to say he was the only politician involved who was against both Iraq and Afghanistan and who is certain to NOT start a war against Iran, or anyone else. That’s a bit clearer than non-interventionist, isn’t it?

    The Great Society for Vietnam. You know, if things were reduced to picking a non-warpig racist over a politically correct warmonger who might start a catastrophic war for his domestic agenda, I’d go with the former.

    The best case is a non-racist respecter of constitutional protections and non-American blood. Unfortunately, we don’t have anybody like that.

  129. 129.

    Xboxershorts

    @Mnemosyne:

    Dude…IANAI

    None the less, I choose to respond to your trollish post.

    DOJ and DEA are executive branch agencies. Pass down new policy of in-situ non-arrest…doesn’t seem so hard to imagine.

  137. 137.

    Montysano

    What is far more interesting than Paul himself is the rightwing media’s war on him. Apparently Roger Ailes feels that, having paid good money to shape the narrative and choose a candidate, Ron Paul’s apostasy will not be tolerated. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen such an obvious ratfuck of a GOP candidate. Democrats are fair game, obviously, but the Wurlitzer doesn’t usually go after one of its own.

  140. 140.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I get the point, but…

    It’s true that the President cannot change or ignore the law (modulo signing statements or other such tools); however, he can set priorities for enforcement. The DEA, FBI, ATF, US attorneys, etc., don’t have to be quite so enthusiastic when bringing the hammer down on casual users, and that’s something the President can affect.

    Then again, even Obama has only so much bandwidth; if he’s willing to let the War on Drugs rage while trying to keep the GOP from COMPLETELY DESTROYING THE COUNTRY, well, I’m not too sure I can blame him. Also, much of the WoD is being waged at the state and local levels, which the President has no authority over.

    But yeah, it’s time to remind the pundits, the public, and the weasels themselves that it’s CONGRESS that’s supposed to run the show, not the President. The executive amassed way too much power in the 20th century, and it’s time for Congress to take it back.

    Which won’t happen without complete turnover.

    Which won’t happen.

  141. 141.

    suzanne

    @arguingwithsignposts: We should program a FourLoko Random Quotation Generator.

    “Words” and phrases to include:
    proselytize
    judeoxian democracy
    cudlip
    imma
    cow

    Damnit, now I just taught my iPad that “cudlip” is a word. FUCK.

  142. 142.

    YellowJournalism

    I would be interested in finding out why “splashy but mindless” does not follow the hyphenation use for multiple-word adjective phrases. It is not an adverb and adjective combination and does not follow the noun the phrase describes.

  144. 144.

    suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: I forgot about “substrate”! LMMFAO.

    I want to teach her that there are more than 20 words in English. I bet her SAT verbal score was an embarrassment.

  149. 149.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @Xboxershorts:

    No. The President can affect enforcement, but he can’t end it; that will require Congress to change/repeal a number of laws.

    And like I said above, a good chunk of the WoD is waged at the state and local level; the President can’t tell your local Sheriff to lay off.

  151. 151.

    Steeplejack

    @YellowJournalism:

    The phrase consists of two adjectives connected by a conjunction. If the conjunction were and, obviously you would write “splashy and mindless position-taking,” not “splashy-and-mindless position-taking.” It’s the same with but, which is a conjunction just like and.

    /ready to bolt for the door if the grammar vandals show up to decry my slavish bondage to outdated “rules.” “rules”.

  153. 153.

    pragmatism

    Matoko bashing is the only thing that could bring the balloon baggers and the LOOGies together. She is the Rosetta stone.

  154. 154.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Steeplejack: Put the fucking quotations marks back where they belong. I also decry the current trend toward very large loose knots in ties; I firmly believe that the trend is entirely motivated by people who can’t be bothered to learn how to tie a decent knot.

  157. 157.

    RossInDetroit

    Logical punctuation makes sense to me. But then I’ve written more computer source code than English and that HAS to make sense or it doesn’t work. You could come up with arguments to put punctuation marks inside quotes when they aren’t part of the original text the quote was extracted from but I’m not convinced.

  158. 158.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @suzanne: You are correct. I was gonna fix it then omnes baseganked meh so i hadda pout.

    mebbe i stalk him naow

  160. 160.

    wilfred

    @Chopper:

    Fair cop. But he wants to get rid of it now, unlike most people in Washington. Bin Laden’s dead.

    Once Paul is out of the px, there’ll be no debate on it, or its ever-widening powers. And didn’t Obama say that he would have opposed the original AUMF if he’d been a senator at that time?

  161. 161.

    Yeah Dude

    Certain people who type on blogs make me so angreeeeee. It is very important to spend one’s time and energy getting angry about bloggers! GRRRR.

  163. 163.

    YellowJournalism

    Steeplejack, I was seriously interested. I’m an out-of-practice grammar junkie. I haven’t used the word “gerund” in a conversation in years.

  164. 164.

    maus

    @BruinKid:

    I’ve said before that Paul is better than Obama on civil liberties.

    He’s for a federal ban on abortion, and his States Rights stance is shit on everything as well.

  166. 166.

    Ian

    @Grumpy Code Monkey:
    Well to be technical he can tell the sheriff to lay off. Just as you or I could tell the sheriff to lay off. The realistic notion that the president isn’t (and shouldn’t be) an all powerful dictator who can snap his fingers and *WHAM* gold standard, or *WHAM* no more GITMO, or *WHAM* peace in I/P gets lost on many fine American voters.

  167. 167.

    The Moar You Know

    @Xboxershorts: You are aware that there are state drug laws, yes? You are aware that most people who fall afoul of our nation’s obscene drug laws violated state laws and are in state jails, are you not?

    Please explain how in light of these facts a President Paul – or any other president – can order a unilateral cessation of hostilities in the War On Drugs.

  168. 168.

    Tractarian

    It’s an executive branch policy. End that policy….*poof* War on drugs over.

    This is perhaps the most constitutionally illiterate thing I have ever read.

  169. 169.

    Mnemosyne

    @Xboxershorts:

    DOJ and DEA are executive branch agencies. Pass down new policy of in-situ non-arrest…doesn’t seem so hard to imagine.

    As others have pointed out, DOJ and DEA are federal agencies who don’t control state and local police agencies.

    I think what you’re trying to argue is that the DOJ and DEA should lay off states that have passed medical marijuana and other decriminalization statutes, but you’ve broadened that argument to an absolutely ridiculous degree if you think that Obama can single-handedly decriminalize marijuana on the federal level.

  170. 170.

    gwangung

    I think the main thrust here is that a debate on ending the War on Drugs is going to take something more direct and pragmatic than a Paul candidacy.

  173. 173.

    BruinKid

    @maus: I’ve gone head-to-head with this Ron Paul fan over abortion before (he thinks of himself as pro-choice). This was before Paul signed the Personhood USA pledge, when it looked like he was simply another “states rights” pro-lifer. This guy actually told me, when it came to women who would need abortions in red states that would then make it illegal, “they can simply move elsewhere”. That was his solution. Move.

    Later, when he was going apeshit over Obama signing the NDAA and our civil liberties, I was tempted, but didn’t, to respond back to him that he “could simply move elsewhere”. :-P

    But what do you mean his states rights stance is “shit on everything”? Is there some hypocrisy I’ve missed in this?

  174. 174.

    TheF79

    The most important thing to realize about Paul is that he is not against the War on Drugs. He is against the federal War on Drugs. If the local government of West Cousinfuck, Arkansas decided to execute recreational pot users, Rep. Paul would have no problem as far as I can tell. He is a Tenther/Anti-Federalist pure and simple, and once you look at him in that light, everything makes perfect sense (well, the federal ban on abortion still seems odd, but the neo-confederate BS, isolationism, anti-federal drug war, and all the rest).

    Ron Paul has no problem with a boot stomping on the face of liberty, provided that boot comes from your local or state government and not Washington.

  175. 175.

    Alan in SF

    @Tractarian: @Mnemosyne: I think it’s fair, or at least plausible, to say that the executive branch could end the “war” on drugs, without meaning it could end the enforcement of all drug laws. The DEA and DOJ have considerable latitude under the Controlled Substances Act, and their grants to state and local agencies have considerable influence. They could be a force toward a more positive approach, if the President wanted them to be.

  176. 176.

    AxelFoley

    @Jebediah:

    I was at a restaurant in Michigan last week that had a dish called “John Cole” on the dessert menu

    They have that at this Italian restaurant called Carraba’s (I think Carraba’s is a national chain). Best damn dessert I’ve ever had. Seriously, it’s that good.

    I LMAO’d, though, thinking about our John Cole having a dessert that shared his name.

    But fuck if it ain’t good.

  177. 177.

    maus

    @TheF79:

    Ron Paul has no problem with a boot stomping on the face of liberty, provided that boot comes from your local or state government and not Washington.

    Exactly. States Rights true believers are completely disinterested when it comes to civil rights, only Federal encroachment and yet these morons see whatever in him they wish. Things that do not exist in reality.

  178. 178.

    Jewish Steel

    @wilfred: Wow. After the hiding Kay gave you this morning I’m surprised you have the nerve to show your face ’round these parts. Guess you’re a glutton for punishment.

  179. 179.

    Jebediah

    @AxelFoley:
    Yeah, Carraba’s is the place, and I am pretty sure you’re right about them being national. I’m sure I’ll be back there, next time I visit my nieces – I’ll have to try the John Cole. And try not to laugh my ass off about ordering it.

  180. 180.

    wilfred

    Hiding? Was that what it was?

    All I saw was screeching. Another frustrated person with serious anger issues throwing a tantrum and screaming “I’M RIGHT!!!” till I got bored listening to the same bullshit I associate with mothers superior and secular fanatics.

    Everyone’s wrong but Kay. Yeh.

  182. 182.

    Samara Morgan

    heres a good one.

    arguingwithsignposts – April 10, 2011 | 2:22 pm · Link
    __
    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:
    Call me a cudlip, you adolescent little witch. You come on and spew NONSENSE continuously, despite being called out on your shit by the likes of Omnes, and you expect better? fuck that shit, you little weasel. You are no better than a troll. in fact, you are worse. at least mclaren posts in coherent sentences. You, otoh, are all WAI, WEC, OODA, Distributed Jesusland bullshit.
    __
    and you clog up threads with your EDK hate. Fuck you. Our EDK is learning, which is WAAYYYY THE FUCK more than i can say for your happy ass.
    __
    If the future of the democratic/progressive movement is fucktards like you, i want nothing of it.

    hahahahaha

  185. 185.

    Paul in KY

    @Samara Morgan: Did I peg you correctly? VDE was wondering which (non-human) Star Trek race you would identify as & I said ‘Sufi Organian’.

    Surely the Organians have heard of the blessed Quran, as it exists outside space & time contraints?

  186. 186.

    Samara Morgan

    @dmsilev: sticks and stones dude.
    iwasright iwasright iwasright iwasright!
    ;)
    @Paul in KY: im a Variant Thirteen. but gurrlstyle.

    @DougJ

    the cool, attention-getting contrarian thing to do.

    you still do not understand. Paul is a doctrinaire liberty-as-means libertarian.
    EDK is a doctrinaire libertarian. Sully is a conservative. Conor is a libertarian.
    A libertarian is not a friend you haven’t turned liberal yet.
    There is something basically, deeply, permanently wrong with them.
    I suspect a paucity of grey matter in the Anterior Cingulate Cortex.

  187. 187.

    Xboxershorts

    @Mnemosyne: No god dammit..

    I ONLY STATED THIS POLICY POSITION IN PAUL’S CAMPAIGN WILL GENERATE POSITIVE POLLING AND DRAW MUCH SUPPORT FROM CIVIL LIBERTARIANS.

    It’s the rest of you jackalopes who keep saying it’s an unenforceable position. I really don’t care. I’m not going to vote for him.

    In my original post (and my 2nd followup in this thread) I clearly never stated that this position was doable.

    My only point was that it generates popular support

  188. 188.

    Samara Morgan

    yah know….when EDK came out with his “Beyond Unions” post, where he did a a 180 and started ragging on teachers unions as the proximate cause of America’s educational decline, i linked that post here and got crickets.
    Except from Kay.
    Kay is the ONLY juicer that has had the grace to admit she was wrong about EDK, and that he DID ACTUAL HARM when he got the administrations ear on his “Labor Roundtable”.
    as far as im concerned, you are all stupid Teucrian cows, that became so enamored with the idea of converting EDK that you were blinded to his FUCKING OBVIOUS glibertarian substrate.
    You got grifted.
    Cole, mixie and DougJ alsotoo.

  189. 189.

    Samara Morgan

    @Paul in KY: possibly, but im not a trekkie.
    im a Quellist.

    Face the facts. Then act on them. It’s the only mantra I know, the only doctrine I have to offer you, and it’s harder than you’d think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don’t pray, don’t wish, don’t buy into centuries-old dogma and dead rhetoric. Don’t give in to your conditioning or your visions or your fucked-up sense of… whatever. FACE THE FACTS. THEN act.
    Speech before the Assault on Millsport.

  192. 192.

    Samara Morgan

    @Paul in KY: its from the Richard Morgan universe.
    Same as the Jesusland internet meme.

    You get JesusLand, actually.
    __
    I have to say that I’ve had quite a lot of e-mails from people about this. I’ve had e-mails from people who live there and who said, “oh, man, you’re so right.” But I’ve had an awful lot of people get in touch, mostly very polite, but really hurt and defensive. They say, “you’ve got us all wrong—we’re not a bunch of racist, lynching psychopaths.”
    __
    Usually with those guys I’ll try to explain somewhat more clearly what I was after, since I believe novel writing should be an act of communication.
    __
    First of all, I generally say, I know. I have spent time in various parts of the United States, probably including where you live, and the Americans I’ve met there . . . they’re lovely people. They’re courteous, they’re friendly, they’re generous with their time and resources. In fact, they’re a lot like Americans in the rest of the country. But that is really not the issue. I’ve also spent time in various North African and Middle Eastern nations and found the inhabitants there to be courteous, engaging and hospitable to a fault – but if I’d created a theocratic state in North Africa, would you have been angry about that?
    __
    Jesusland is not an indictment of all the 200+ million Americans living in its territory, it’s a portrayal of certain ruinous socio-dynamic tendencies common to that region running amok, and the catastrophic impact they have had (that I believe, in fact, they are having even now) on America’s very great potential as a modern nation.
    __
    The only Jesuslander we get very close to is, ok, a little on the bad guy side, in a purely narrative sense—but he’s hard-working, loyal, courageous, honourable, sensitive, and he’s great in bed. Can’t say fairer than that, can you? Sure, he’s also fucked up by old-time religion and overpumped naive patriotism, but he’s not supposed to be the bad guy—he’s just someone who’s been stitched up. Scott ends up getting used and killed as a result of the way this narrow indoctrination has worked, but that’s portrayed (I hope) as a tragedy – to some extent, in fact, it’s the whole tragedy of lost American potential in microcosm.
    __
    Quite often people read the book and assumed that I share the main characters’ view of Jesusland, which is intensely critical. But it’s important, as in all my fiction, to dissociate the opinions and attitudes of the characters from the opinions and attitudes of the author. Tom Norton and Sevgi Ertekin are contemptuous (and frightened) of Jesusland because they too have their own prejudices and fears to contend with. Sevgi in particular, as a first generation American immigrant and an identifiable ethnic minority, bitches about diehard confederate agendas because quite frankly the Deep South terrifies her. This is also is an observed reality; for Ertekin’s character, I borrowed quite heavily from one or two New Yorkers I know who have a similar (if perhaps not quite as extreme) mistrust and fear of the southern fundamentalist tendency and, by association, the places it comes from. The very sad truth about bigotry is that it begets more bigotry in reaction. There is a whole sub-set of Americans who are very tired of being caricatured and despised as “latte-drinking elites” or godless queer-loving liberals, and their reaction, increasingly, is to step away from the places which emanate this intolerance. So Sevgi, for all she is the closest thing to a “hero” we have, is flawed and angry, just like the other characters in the book, Marsalis most definitely included. I don’t do white hats and black hats, good guys and bad. All the characters in Thirteen are flawed, all are damaged, none are safe as moral guides to the terrain.
    __
    Thirteen is not a dance on the grave of middle America or the south, it’s a howling lament for what is being done to your nation by willful ignorance and ruthless vested interests, and for all that could be lost.

    yah know Paul….im flawed. im damaged.
    but i was still your Cassandra on EDK.
    it would be fair if one of the Front Pagers acknowledged that.

  194. 194.

    Maus

    @Samara Morgan:

    i linked that post here and got crickets.

    Because nobody gives a shit about you trying to stir up drama? EDK is tiresome, and he’s beeng getting hell from (many, most of) us since he started. Are you really that sad that you’re getting a nonstop Cassandra Complex over a few times in which you didn’t happen to be horribly, utterly, laughably wrong, though everyone still came to the same conclusion? That’s not how a Cassandra Complex even works!

    you were blinded to his FUCKING OBVIOUS glibertarian substrate. You got grifted. Cole, mixie and DougJ alsotoo.

    Well, Cole and others have certainly made excuses for “well-meaning” conservatives, libertopians, etc. I think they’re only just now stopping making excuses for Sully.

  195. 195.

    Paul in KY

    @Samara Morgan: Google my comments about him & you’d see I was right there with you (on the EDK topic).

    Why won’t they recognize my (and your) greatness!

    Also, appreciate the explanation of the ‘Variant 13’. Learn alot here.

  196. 196.

    THE

    Samara,
    I’ve never argued with you about EDK, Freddie, Conor, etc. because I’ve always known that you knew the TAS regulars much better than I did.

  197. 197.

    Samara Morgan

    @THE: trojans, the citizens of troy.

    @Maus: im a big empirical data fan.
    give an example of where i was wrong recently.

    he’s beeng getting hell from (many, “most” of) us since he started

    link or gtfo.

  201. 201.

    Samara Morgan

    @Maus: i didnt say that– i SAID i think it would be fair of just one of the FrontPagers that pimped EDK’s fake conversion reality show would admit that he was a faker along.
    kay said AL was on to him from the “get go” but she couldn’t come up with a link, and then AL left her twisting in the wind on that thread.
    i remember alluridae and cornerstone….i dont remember you.
    link or GTFO.

  202. 202.

    Maus

    @Samara Morgan: Holy shit, four people said goodbye to him? After dozens bitched at him in every thread he made and got lectured to be nice to him? My point is that you’re nothing new or special. You get banned because you’ve got a large amount of unwarranted self-importance and offer little back for having to put up with your attention-seeking stunts over and over again.

  203. 203.

    Samara Morgan

    @THE: because i have been cassandra all along. i said Kain was a trojan horse to sneak libertarian ideas onto a liberal blog.

  205. 205.

    Samara Morgan

    @Maus: dude, link or GTFO.
    a LOT of people objected to Kain coming on originally, but then totally bought into the fake come-to-jesus conversion narrative.
    lets have some of them pipe up how they were on to Kain.
    i welcome links.
    i certainly could be wrong.

  206. 206.

    Maus

    @Samara Morgan: Why should anyone bother putting the effort in with a goalpost-shifter such as yourself?

    He tried to appear as if he was learning, or inquisitive, but nothing about his actual, underlying beliefs changed. I don’t understand why you think observing this is something unique or particularly notable.

    Again, If you get banned, it’s not for disagreeing, you get banned for being yappy.

  207. 207.

    eemom

    @Maus:

    Can’t believe this is still going on.

    Dude: WHY continue to beat your head on the brick wall of the monster child’s ego? It’s a lost cause.

    I mean if there is one advantage a tantrum-throwing toddler always has over a reasoning adult, it’s staying power. You gotta just let it rant its way into exhaustion.

  209. 209.

    Paul in KY

    @eemom: I can outlast any child. I have waited in military lines that took 7 or 8 hours to get out of. Outlasting a child is a piece of cake (IMO).

  210. 210.

    Samara Morgan

    @Maus: lol, i know why i got banned every time. the first time was for hatin’ on missionaries.
    i do hate missionaries.
    :)
    well….i guess my kanly here is finished. Kain cant come back now, and i dont think even mixie will link him anymore.
    bi la kayfah

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