It turns out Mitt Romney may not have won in Iowa after all.
Mitt Romney received 20 fewer votes than are reported from a Moulton precinct in numbers posted by the Republican Party of Iowa, the Appanoose County GOP chairman said today.
The final vote between Iowa caucuses winner Mitt Romney was eight ahead of Rick Santorum.
“We stand by the figures that were presented by the Moulton precinct caucus,” said Lyle Brinegar, chairman of the Appanoose County GOP.
Matt Strawn, chairman of the Republican Party of Iowa, continued to express confidence Friday that the order of finish will not change. He said the party would make no further comment until its two-week vote certification process is complete.
Moulton resident Edward True has signed an affidavit saying that he helped count the vote at the Garrett Memorial Library in Moulton and that the precinct had two votes for Romney, not 22, as reported online by the state GOP.
But here’s the kicker: the article goes on to say that even if Santorum did win that it doesn’t really change anything, we’re told. Rick’s Slick is still going to lose in every other state.
Drake University political science professor Dennis Goldford said the results – even if the certification reveals a different answer – will change little other than bragging rights.
Santorum, who for months remained in the single digits in polls, wildly beat expectations, and that is the real story, Goldford said. The caucuses don’t result in an actual election, so there’s no additional harm done in terms of having to eject a candidate from a position, Goldford noted.
Now that’s odd. Republicans keep screaming how the voting process is inherently corrupt if it ever produces a Democrat as the winner because they always steal elections, therefore we must have strict voting laws in every state for every election that makes it as difficult as possible for people to vote in order to protect the integrity of the election system. We have to pass laws to immediately protect the sacred process from the evils of those people who may try to vote 4812 times. It’s the only way one of them could end up President you know, and if you don’t agree you’re evil vote-stealing scum anyway.
But that election system apparently doesn’t matter when it comes to the coronation of Mitt Romney as nominee as fast as possible. Strange how that works. Democrats aren’t even American as far as most Republicans are concerned, but it’s all good if Republicans fiddle with the election system. It’s just a caucus, right? Besides, ACORN ACORN ACORN BLAH BLOOGITY BLAH CHICAGO WAY.
amk
lil rick is one state wonder. almost. none of the non-mitts seem to be up to the task now.
BGinCHI
Exactly right, Zander, but it also ought to shine a little light on what the media fetishizes and how they go about it. Analysis is so crowded out or missing altogether that you get a completely distorted view of process.
It’s process that people need to have a better understanding of, or else they are really vulnerable to being manipulated by the GOP or any party that has money/power.
We aren’t asking the media to take sides (I’m looking at you, PolitiFuckt), but to scrutinize the process and how it works. That would provide a great service in educating a society in how it functions, why certain outcomes occur, and so on.
A transparent process is the antidote to ideological manipulation.
Mino
A Republican spokesperson on one of the MSN shows said flat out that their primary would not enforce voter ID. What’s with that, I ask?
dmsilev
I confess I’m looking forward to the yahoo debate tonight (hosted by some ABC and some website…). We’re getting pretty close to the “last stand of the not-Romneys”, and I expect the clowns to go full-bore attacking the Rombot.
handsmile
What Digby said. (as per usual)
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/from-how-do-you-like-me-now-files-gop.html
@BGinCHI: (#2)
My god, man, what with the new fatherhood and all, I didn’t expect we’d be seeing you around here for a while. Shouldn’t you be sleeping or nappy-changing or simply cooing? :) Always a pleasure. Best wishes to you, your good wife and Xavi!
Brachiator
This is not the only conclusion you can draw from this, especially if you factor in the recent whining from Newt and Perry over their inability to get on the Virginia primary ballot.
And the, there is odd stuff, such as the supposed Twitter endorsement of Santorum by Rupert Murdoch. Have we seen the right wing pundits solidly fall in behind Romney?
But, apart from Huntsman, Romney appears to be the least crazy Republican running. So why would you expect the GOP power brokers to want to see any of the Not Romneys do well?
ploeg
The procedure is, to wit:
1. Everybody shows up on the evening of the caucus.
2. You get a short presentation from the supporters of each candidate.
3. You’re handed a piece of paper, on which you write the name of your favored candidate and dump it in the envelope/box that’s passed around. (Alternatively, some caucus precincts might substitute a show of hands.)
4. The results get tabulated and sent off.
5. In a completely separate vote, delegates to the county convention are chosen (who in turn choose delegates to the district convention, who in turn choose delegates to the state convention, who in turn choose the delegates to the national convention who choose the nominee).
Note that the Democratic process is somewhat different, and the results map better to the number of delegates that each candidate gets.
So no, the votes that you see don’t have any relevance to choosing a nominee, except insofar as they indicate broadly the level of support that each candidate has. And yes, it would be nice if the media could do more to educate people on that point.
Benjamin Franklin
I like my red meat cooked ‘rare’…
It’s too tough to chew on, otherwise.
dmsilev
Speaking of going all-out anti-Romeny, this is rather interesting. It’s a pro-Newt SuperPAC, but the video is pure “Mitt Romney destroyed our jobs and made a lot of money doing it”, not exactly the sort of attack you associate with Republicans.
Captain Howdy
It’s not that it’s ‘just a caucus,’ it’s that it’s just a straw poll, and so no delegates are won or lost in Iowa. That’s why it doesn’t matter whether Mittens won by eight votes or lost by 12 to Rickload Stickypants. (It matters, of course, to the Village horse-race enthusiasts but that’s about it.)
Valdivia
why I love Newt staying in
http://whenmittromneycametotown.com/
via his superpac
ploeg
One might add that, while the Republican practice of using plain paper ballots is appealingly low-tech, it can result in missed counting, lost ballots, and other such irregularities. The wonder is that more incidents such as this have not yet been reported.
Captain Howdy
@ploeg:
Re “…who in turn choose the delegates to the national convention who choose the nominee.”
Not exactly. At least, not according to your wiki link :
WaterGirl
Zandar, I didn’t quite understand your comment from the last thread:
Maybe I woke up this morning without all my cylinders clicking. If you get a minute, could you explain?
ploeg
@Captain Howdy: Um, re-read my post. That’s exactly what I said.
PIGL
@Mino: simple: no black people were planning to vote anyway.
WaterGirl
Caucuses aren’t “real” elections, don’t you know? That’s the same crap we heard in 2008. Obama won the caucuses, but they didn’t really count.
I think it was Perry who said a couple of days ago who made some comment dismissing Iowa because it was a caucus, saying he was ready to compete in the actual primaries that are coming up. The man is running for president and he doesn’t even seem to know how many states have caucuses instead of, or in addition to, primaries. He just dissed over 1/4 of the states. Idiot.
Palli
@ploeg:
a republican is going to report on republican voter fraud, election fraud and or inconvenient caucus results?
It’s a marvel this Edward True signed an affidavit! True to his name but …
WaterGirl
@BGinCHI: I have to confess that I was a little worried that we might lose you as a commenter after the baby was born. (Me, me, me, it’s always about me, isn’t it?) I was kind of worried about the same thing when Jon Stewart’s baby was on the way, but it didn’t seem to have slowed him down any. So yay (!) that you are still here. :-)
BruceFromOhio
@Mino:
Seems about right. It’s only Democrats and poor people that are not allowed to vote.
Brachiator
By the way, I also have to point out that how either party chooses its nominee is NOT the “election system.” Deferring to voters in primaries is not only recent, but an interesting capitulation to the democratic impulse. But there is nothing really that prohibits back room deals or rigged results in getting a nominee.
RossInDetroit
There’s so much Fail here it’s hard to know where to start.
The caucuses were the white hot center of all media attention for a week. They apparently counted the votes badly enough to pick the wrong winner. But they’re not going to change the result. And besides, it’s completely irrelevant. Just a horse race. WTG, GOP.
MildlyAmusedRainbowPerson
My heart fills with such joy when I realize that tonight we get to see another round of the “I can haz blowhard” debates.
4tehlulz
If Santorum doesn’t give a shit if he won Iowa, why should anything else?
That’s the part that’s strange to me.
Villago Delenda Est
Dennis Goldford is right, though. The entire Iowa caucus process is a farce. It’s a show for the cretinous vermin of the Village. It has no actual impact, at all, on the selection of delegates from Iowa to the national conventions. It may give Santorum a boost amongst the Villagers (and obviously it has…look at all the coverage he’s getting) but ask President Huckabee how much it helped him?
If Paul had won this thing, he’d be the one in the media spotlight right now, for his own boon or woe. So it is with Santorum. Neither one will be the nominee unless a series of meteors hit in exactly the right places to take out the GOP establishment that wants Mitt to be the sacrificial lamb.
It’s nothing more than an elaborate straw poll. Changing the results won’t even affect the Village narrative. So all Mitt (and his lower life form surrogates like our resident trolls) has is bragging rights that don’t hold up very well under scrutiny.
Professor
OT I visited Tbogg’s place and I learned that Mitt’s father, George Romney, was born in Mexico. So how could he have run for the presidency? Any ideas or was I reading it incorrectly?
Villago Delenda Est
@Professor:
Where you’re born isn’t nearly so important as whether or not your parents were citizens. This was established long ago, in the late 18th century. Naturalized citizens (that is, immigrants who become citizens, like the Governator) can’t run for President, but the children of US citizens who happened to be outside the country when the child was born (be they diplomats, soldiers, or tourists) still are “natural born” as far as running for President is concerned.
Maude
@Professor:
Because shut up, that’s why.
Cat Lady
What a mess this is from beginning to end, and I’d be ecstatic about it if I didn’t know that there’s a possibility well above 0 that Romney could win. Santorum has no ground game, and Newt’s ground game consists of going after Romney like Rambo coming out of the swamp with a knife between his teeth. Paul’s the only one who’s going to keep dogging Romney, because he’s laying the ground game down for his evil spawn for 2016. What a friggin’ shit show.
xian
@Valdivia: I’m starting to think newt may be a deep-cover liberal, specializing in ad absurdum provocatory overreach.
B W Smith
@Professor: According to Wikipedia, Santorum’s dad was born in Italy. His mom was a US citizen and I think his dad was a naturalized citizen.
WaterGirl
@Cat Lady: Do the candidates supported by evangelicals even need their own ground game? Seems to me that the evangelical groups supply the ground game for candidates they support.
Professor
I was really talking about George Romney running for the presidency until he said something about being ‘brainwashed’ about the Vietnam war. I did NOT mean the Mittster.
Anoniminous
@WaterGirl:
A “ground game” is different than “lots of people supporting.” The biggest difference is a ground game is organized to achieve a political goal: to go out and identify supporters, attempts to persuade “persuade-ables,” get Their People into the polling booth, and etc.
Cat Lady
@WaterGirl:
Evangelicals do the grunt work – phone banking and envelope stuffing, but the precinct by precinct GOTV has to all be coordinated above the retail level, and it can’t be done last minute – I’d say it’s already too late for Santorum, and Newt’s on a kamikaze mission.
ChrisNYC
@Professor: It’s an interesting question. I don’t think it’s clear that he would qualify. The whole problem is that “natural born” doesn’t appear in statutory law on regular citizenship so there’s no set definition and there hasn’t been a lot of explication in the courts. The regular citizenship rules look to citizenship of the parents as well as length of residency in the US. Since his parents left for the reasons they did, makes sense that their kids wouldn’t automatically qualify.
Anoniminous
@Cat Lady:
See Gingrich Adds Two More to his S.C. Team:
Not all political endorsements are equal. Some, like the above, bring existing political organization(s) and networks along with ’em, a ground-game (Bottom-Up) the candidate can attach to their Top-Down efforts. Getting an activist means getting another five to fifty – perhaps even more – votes come election day.
One reason, I think, Santorum did so well in Iowa is because he spent the time building a GOTV operation. Romney – and Gingrich, for that matter – didn’t and it cost them.
GregB
I came across a flier on the streets of Manchester, NH with Sarah Palin’s picture and the the caption:
End the Clown Show, write in Sarah Palin.
Best laugh I’ve had in weeks.
Corner Stone
@WaterGirl: Because Zander and the rest of the Eternal Order of Essential Poutrage(tm) pre-decided that any reference to Obama or the First Family was, by definition, insulting and some type of racist hit piece.
xulon
Looking at the hand-scrawled note, the total comes to 29 for a 53 person caucus. Makes me think that either 22 for Romney is correct, or there was a lot of unreported ‘None of the Above” votes.
stevestory
downloaded greasemonkey
added cleek’s filter
clicked ‘edit this script’
picked notepad.
got this:
wtf
please advise
Can't Be Bothered
That small pop you heard in the distance is Shit for Brai—excuse me– Veritas’s little head exploding.
WaterGirl
@Anoniminous: @Cat Lady: I see what you mean. I was thinking “get out the vote”, but even that requires infrastructure behind it: the voter databases, etc.
Funny story. (I think.) The Obama campaign was the first political campaign where I went door to door, entered data into the databases, etc. On my first day, I kept wondering what the heck GO TV was. Took me awhile to figure out that it was Get Out The Vote.
Nutella
@Villago Delenda Est:
Except that George Romney’s parents were not diplomats, soldiers, or tourists. They were born in Mexico and lifelong residents of Mexico. George Romney’s grandparents were American outlaws who fled to Mexico to avoid prosecution for polygamy.
The fact that all their descendents had American citizenship on paper is undoubtedly due to their relationship with the American Mormons who didn’t run off to Mexico. I expect that kind of thing going on for generations is illegal.
Has anyone here had the experience of being the second or third generation of Americans who were born and lived their whole lives abroad? Were you able to maintain citizenship for multiple generations without even visiting the US?
SiubhanDuinne
@Anoniminous:
That would be the daughter of . . . wait for it . . . Lee Atwater!
Nutella
And here’s the Wikipedia treatment of George Romney’s citizenship:
scav
@WaterGirl: GO TV? (One of the odder options on ESPN-BoardGames, we must admit.) I was clueless about the attraction of LSD in Chicago for far far too long and that was years after the first embarrassing slowness about TVs in certain sections of back page ads.
gaz
@ploeg:
They require them to read and write? How does that even work for them?
I always figured they gave these people rocks with the various candidates faces painted on them – and they just piled the rocks in the center of the room. Afterward, someone from the media, or maybe David Koch, or some other quasi-educated neanderthal would set about counting them.
Thanks for clearing this up for me, but the problematic literacy issues involved seem to raise more questions than your statement answers. =)
PS: The raising of hands I get though.
B W Smith
@Corner Stone: Or you know, it might be that Zandar was ready to post this only to discover John had just posted. Since pre-conceived motives always rule your day, please ignore my alternative possibility.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: I appreciate the reply.
I don’t really connect Zandar with the poutrage crowd, though. It seems to me that feeling protective of the Obamas would be the opposite of what I expect from the poutrage crowd, who seem to constantly pick on Obama and never seem satisfied by anything he does.
How do you see those two things, that seem to be at odds with one another, fitting together?
WaterGirl
@scav: Okay, I am apparently still clueless about the LSD reference. Fill me in?
gaz
@WaterGirl:
Corner Stone only posts while drunk. Best to ignore it.
01010101
The Romneyoid campaign always needs fresh marketing ideas: say, Ann Romney and her nerdly sons’ wives in some healthy LDS-sapphic piss sex.
gaz
@01010101: The mental imagery not appreciated.
*reaches for brain bleach*
FlipYrWhig
@WaterGirl: I assumed it was that Z was ready to go with a post, but John jumped the queue. So Z was saying, in effect, WTF, man?
scav
@WaterGirl: Very local. Lake Shore Drive.
ETA: Wildly amusing as being “On LSD” seemed to be such a selling point.
FlipYrWhig
@WaterGirl: He means “Obot” “poutrage.”. Especially what he sees as hair-trigger accusations of racism, because he was on the receiving end of that once.
MildlyAmusedRainbowPerson
@SiubhanDuinne:
I assumed they must be talking about Lindsey Graham. I still haven’t worked out who his legendary daddy was though.
FlipYrWhig
Don’t the Romney sons look just like the Osmonds?
wobblybits
@FlipYrWhig: My reading as well. Okay back to work. (can one have the dissertation proposal blues?)
Raven
@wobblybits: not for too long
Anoniminous
@WaterGirl:
lol.
@SiubhanDuinne:
I hereby state my ignorance of the nuts-&-bolts (nuts-&-bots? nuts-&-other nuts?) of the South Carolina GOP.
A couple of people commented the other day getting the SC Majority Speaker was a big deal for Gingrich and the Romney-bot getting the Governor’s wasn’t. Me no know … but if there is a Stop-Romney Movement it seems to me, in my ignorance, they have to stop him winning SC.
Raven
@Anoniminous: Nickey is in a pickle with the moron corps.
wobblybits
@Raven: The problem of course is that I really have no idea what I’m doing. My instructions were to be as specific as possible. So I have been using examples of proposals from various sources to craft my own working version to submit to chair as a starting point.
KCinDC
Goldford is right, though. It’s only the media obsession with anointing a “winner” of each state, even when it’s not a winner-take-all process, that makes it matter at all whether Santorum or Romney got a handful of votes more and thus “won” the tie. It doesn’t affect the selection of delegates. Unfortunately it does affect the media spin, which may have more influence on the ultimate outcome of the nomination process.
The media was similarly obsessed with “winners” in the Clinton-Obama nomination contest, even though no states were winner-take-all for the Democrats and very close decisions really were ties.
Raven
@wobblybits: Great start, very few people really “know” what they are doing when they do this.
WaterGirl
@scav: Okay, now i am laughing out loud! I grew up around Chicago, but they didn’t use the acronym back then. Too funny.
Anoniminous
@wobblybits:
Welcome to My World!
With the recent release of important new evidence wrt glial cells I’m not only having to plow through the papers while simultaneously trying to remember a class on neuro-chemistry I took mumblety-mumblety years ago.
This ‘Modeling the Human Mind’ AI-shit sucks.
lol
A Humble Lurker
@FlipYrWhig:
Actually, s/he was on the other end.
WaterGirl
@wobblybits: I would ask this instead: Is it possible to NOT have them while working on the dissertation proposal? Or when trying to get yourself to work on said proposal?
debbie
@ Anoniminous:
I picture that X-Files episode of the Appalachian brothers who, after centuries of inbreeding, loved old cars and had sex with their limbless mother, wheeling her out from under the bed on a dolly as needed.
Raven
@WaterGirl: I defended mine, got my wisdom teeth pulled and divorced in the same week.
wobblybits
@Anoniminous: gah! I feel for you. I don’t even want to lok at my literature review at this point. Not that thee is a ton of new stuff, rather it is dizzying to try to capture the different points of view. grumblegrumble
wobblybits
@WaterGirl: I was told that whatever topic I choose, to be in love with it enough to live it and breathe it for two years. Hell, I don’t love anything that much but music, my pup, good food and my honey (not necessarily in that order)
ETA: correct spelling
WaterGirl
Thanks to all who answered my question about Zandar’s comment
I am going with the majority here – who knows what Zandar was thinking, but that it would have been related to timing of threads not the content of Cole’s post makes perfect sense to me.
wobblybits
@Raven: Respect to you, sir.
FlipYrWhig
@A Humble Lurker: I knew I hadn’t phrased it clearly enough…
@wobblybits: I definitely had the diss proposal blues. I wrote mine in 1999, in English. The challenge was trying to sound all informed and up to date and confident while also knowing full well that the stupid shit still had to be, you know, researched and written.
And the book based on the thesis sketched out in the proposal just came out last week.
01010101
Most mericans don’t realize that brother Mitt’s just a tadpole compared to like King Brigham.
In olden LDS days, a boy wasn’t even allowed in the temple without at least three maidens.
Anoniminous
@wobblybits:
Keeps me off street corners and out of the bars.
If I had a Real Job© I could go to the Department Chair and beg for some
slavesgraduate students who would do the actual work that I could take credit for.Alas, I can only go to my boss – me – and I’m a tough “sell.”
Which is why, on my own time, I’m in my office, working away.
(Well. Kinda. :-)
WaterGirl
@Raven: Wow. That’s a shitty week. Well beyond a shitty week. Thankfully, it’s all in the past. Now you have a good life, a lovely bride, and even some wisdom!
@wobblybits: That’s good advice. But it’s just not possible to love anything enough to not be sick of it by the end. There’s a reason that success in life is highly correlated with getting a masters degree or a PhD. It’s not because of anything you learn in school. It’s that if you have what it takes to make yourself keep going when every fiber of your being wants to stop, you have the strength of character that will make you a success at other things.
Citizen_X
@Nutella:
So we can honestly say that Mittens Has Four Great-Grandmommies?
Scott Supak
Well, I doubt if Intrade will make any changes to the event they closed already. I had (very small bets) shorted Romney and bet the field of long shots when they were all cheap, so I could have made a good return on Santorum shares, which I bought for less than a dollar.
Nutella
@Citizen_X:
More than that! Mitt had 6 great-grandmothers.
grandpa john
@Raven: @B W Smith: True this, At the present time Nicky is somewhat less than an overwhelming voter favorite, could be something to do with the difference she shows in campaign words versus actual deeds when it comes fulfilling her campaign pledge of “transparency”. Evidently in typical repub campaign lying fashion she has decided that her pledge doesn’t really mean that all her actions are to be covered by the pledge
Triassic Sands
@WaterGirl:
I live in Washington State and we can’t make up our minds. In 2008 we had both a caucus and a primary. I enjoy caucuses, but the turnout is small and lots of people either can’t make it there or have other priorities. That leads to a lessening of their legitimacy.
If 50-60 percent of the voters turned out for caucuses, they’d be unmanageable. On balance, I’d say primaries are a better way to choose a party’s candidate.
When a candidate like Huckabee wins (Iowa 2008), it has got to raise some question about the process. And that’s even granting how pathetic all Republican candidates are. If Huckabee had won the nomination, I’m pretty sure he would have lost to Obama by double digits.
Obama took the 2008 caucuses seriously, as any candidate should, and it paid off for him. The best candidates should have both a relatively small group of hard core supporters (they dominate caucuses) and a much larger group of less committed supporters who can deliver primaries. However, the general election looks like a primary, not a caucus.
mclaren
…And how many of are going to continue the failed and foolishly false claim that Romney will be the Republican nominee?
I have linked several times to public statements by prominent Republicans to the effect that “a lot of Republican voters feel like if another four years of Obama is the price we have to pay for exposing the satanic Mormon cult, then it’s worthy paying.”
The visceral hatred for Mormons by at least half of the Republican primary voters (who are fundamentalist evangelical dominionist Christians) would melt tungsten. From everything I’ve read, tens of thousands of pastors around the United States are readying a series of brimstone-and-hellfire sermons lambasting Romney as the literal antichrist if he gets nominated.
Corner Stone
@WaterGirl: I hope this is obvious to you at this point.
But knowing you, probably not.