Here’s a thread to rehash last night’s event and discuss this morning’s, or anything else that is worth discussing. I didn’t watch last night’s, but the consensus seems to be that Romney won, in part because nobody had the guts to attack the almost certain nominee. None of these guys has a snowball’s chance in hell of getting the VP spot, and I don’t see Paul or Newt as loyal to anyone but themselves, so I wonder why Mitt got a pass.
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Joseph Nobles
Romney won in the sense that Romney has won. He’s the nominee. No one but George Stephanopoulos went after him at all but minority report Jon Huntsman, and dressing Mitt down in Mandarin won’t play in Mississippi at all.
amk
The fix is in. Continuing this charade of clowns show is the biggest political fraud on americans.
Mino
Did someone take Newt into a back room and threaten his grifter’s act if he nuked Romney? Someone like Rove?
Cat Lady
Ron Paul is our only hope of keeping the circus going – he’s not really running either, but he’s got that ridiculous son of his to grease the skids for, and the only one who probably doesn’t care about endangering possible future wingnut welfare checks. Why the others were training their sights for the most part on Paul is evidence of their cowardice and incompetence. Newt really showed how miserable a candidate and human being he really is.
Albatrossity
I only wish Willard had answered Huntsman’s Mandarin take-down in French. I only wish he had been that stupid. But apparently he’s not…
Brachiator
@amk:
Why would you care one way or another who the GOP picked?
Micheline
I knew that 2012 was going be tough for the Dems but these super pacs working on behalf of Mitt Romney made me realize that the Dems really have their work cut out for them. The super pac ads showing in the GOP primary is a test run for the general. It seems to me that these ads are pretty effective. Mitt Romney is not well liked but this nomination fight is his to lose. The Dems need to put up ads against Romney now.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mino:
I think that’s exactly what happened.
He got read the riot act. Get in line, or your comfortable lifestyle will be taken away from you. You’ll live the rest of your life in a manner far beneath the one you’ve become accustomed to.
Seeing as Gingrich is a coward, of course he complied.
harlana
ugghh, i just got up, haven’t even had my first cup yet and it’s starting already
Amir Khalid
Mitt Romney is insincere, inconstant in his convictions and a Mormon; but he is still the least implausible Republican candidate for president this cycle. For a dude in his sixties, he still looks pretty. He would be the least slow to find his ass with both hands. And he’s not quite as empty a suit as Perry, as racist as Paul, as immature as Gingrich, as creepy as Santorum, as ignorant as Bachmann, or as unpopular as Huntsman. And it’s his turn, damn it! so you can’t say that any of this is a surprise.
stickler
Micheline:
Oh, the Dems (Team O, anyhow) has already been putting up ads against the Mittster.
I do wonder about the river of secretive PAC money that’s coming, though. Surely the Dems have been recruiting massive amounts of sleaze-cash just as the Koch brothers have. Right?
Right?
Because the Swift Boating is going to be horrific.
amk
@Brachiator: Why would you not care who and how the rethugs pick their candidate ?
harlana
oh dear, somebody cutting in to Mitt’s time again!
Southern Beale
Looks like Pat Buchanan’s finally been fired from MSNBC. Jesus but that took a long time.
Mino
@Southern Beale: If he wasn’t staked, he’ll be back.
Villago Delenda Est
@Southern Beale:
Apparently, no one at MSNBC could understand the original German until they brought in a consultant from ARD who asked “why do you have an SS officer talking on your shows?”
scav
Micheline:
They may be slick, but have they really proved effective? 1) I don’t think Mitt has really budged in the personal ratings side of thing; 2) there hasn’t been any surge in enthusiasm that I’ve been aware of (the quiet ah-fuck-its from the voting booths may be a figment of my imagination, granted), and; 3) his being ahead of this pack probably has far more to say about the quality of the pack than the quality of anything he’s doing (apart from no major visible pratfalls and reboots.)
None of this is to dispute that were going to be looking at many many nasty ads ahead. I just don’t see a lot of evidence of their effectiveness is this particular race.
Elizabelle
I wonder if the internal GOP polling is so bad the powers that be decreed no further damage to the heir apparent.
aimai
Did Huntsman really speak Mandarin during the debate? OK, the guy just has no idea whose party he is running for. I’ve never liked him because of my (perhaps incorrect) belief that he was stooping to conquer. But this shows that he just doesn’t understand what he is doing. Also, his daddy issues and the internecine, incestuous, Mormon thing between him and Mitt just creeps me out.
aimai
aimai
Whoops, I’m in moderation. Lets try that again.
Did Huntsman really speak some chinese language durin gthe debate. Ok, the guy jus has no idea whose party he is running for. I’ve never liked him because of my (perhaps incorrect) belief that he ws “stooping to conquer.” But this shows that he is just out to lunch. Also, his daddy issues and the internecine Mormon wars between him and Mitt just creep me out.
aimai
aimai
Wow! Either the very word “Mandarin” or the word “Incestuous” put me into moderation. Weird.
aimai
Villago Delenda Est
@aimai:
Or, FYWP in play.
Don’t discount random idiocy (sort of like Rick Perry opening his mouth) as the culprit.
SiubhanDuinne
When is this morning’s debate supposed to begin? And where? I thought NBC, 9:00 am Eastern, but I’m just getting normal boring local news on NBC, and nothing but commercials on MSNBC. Oh wait, here they are.
Funny (maybe not) that the local NBC affiliate chose not to go live with the debate. Wonder if they’ll run it delayed at their usual MTP time? Wonder if I’ll give a shit by then.
JPL
@aimai: I imagine it’s the in.c.e.s.t part of the word.
SiubhanDuinne
@aimai: I think it was the “I” word. I know the root, the one that’s an anagram of insect will send you to the mod corner.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s on at ten but you can stream it on msnbc.com.
scav
well, the NYT has some quotes from it in a liveblog so something is up — they’ve apparently gotten feisty enough for Gingrich to work up enough vim, vigor, and vinegar to throw a “Can we drop a little bit of the pious baloney,” at the Mittster being a non-politician.
Maybe the complete invisibility of the venue is allowing a little more biscuit-tossing in anger.
Ron
I’m not watching (it’s too early to stomach that group) but my twitter feed tells me that they are going after Mitt more this morning than last night. Both rumors of polling data and Ron Paul emails are implying that Huntsman is picking up steam in NH as well. I wouldn’t vote for Huntsman, but he’s the only one in that crowd that doesn’t scare the crap out of me.
Nate Dawg
Much better debate than abc’s last night.
Newt is the only one really going after Mitt.
I don’t see the Wingnut welfare circuits punishing him for that. Rush and company hate Mitt and will even after he’s president.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL: Thanks, have it on regular MSNBC cable at the moment. Missed the first half hour, although I seriously doubt I missed that much. I guess just every time I checked MSNBC earlier I caught the world longest commercial break.
Cat Lady
Why anyone would want to I don’t know, but if you’re stuck in an elevator or in a traffic jam, you can follow the Villagers live-tweeting the debate here.
bemused
@Southern Beale:
I’m actually shocked that he was suspended “indefinitely”. I didn’t think there was anything he could do or say that was offensive enough for msnbc to drop him, even if indefinitely and not permanently.
SiubhanDuinne
@Nate Dawg:
We totally need to make sure we never have a chance to prove or disprove this assertion.
Maude
I don’t watch the debates, but do read the Guardian.
Hi to AWSP and the lovely Lady Smudge.
Ron
Ah, I found the poll. ARG’s latest poll has Huntsman virtually tied for 2nd place in NH (Huntsman-17, Paul-16). I guess that explains why Paul’s campaign is attacking Huntsman. Don’t know why they aren’t attacking Romney, but that’s another story.
gnomedad
@Joseph Nobles:
Huntsman is running for 2016 or as the Emergency Sane Candidate. I think he just freaked and needed to demonstrate some intelligence.
Nate Dawg
well, i doubt he’ll ever be president. he’s slimy and insincere, and honestly, why does he want to be president? does anyone know?
i doubt all the “i don’t hate government, just the federal government” bullshit will fly with independents. seems like his tack on every sticky issue.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ron:
Probably because racist haters gotta hate.
Ed in NJ
@stickler:
It’s much harder to swift boat an incumbent, especially when all you have are attacks. At some point, the Mittster needs to run on something other than “Obama sucks”.
Mino
@scav: This. Maybe the complete invisibility of the venue is allowing a little more biscuit-tossing in anger.
huckster
I think Willard is being badly served by his opponents. This is turning into a desultory affair that is sucking all the life and momentum out of the contest. They are lining up behind Willard because they don’t really have a choice, not out of some genuine excitement for a candidate. It will be interesting to see how this affects the primary vote totals now that this looks like a foregone conclusion.
SiubhanDuinne
Okay, I’m now watching it from the beginning on NBC, and I swear I just heard Mittens state that Obama is a lifelong career politician who has spent his entire life in Washington.
It.Is.To.Laugh.
rlrr
Voting Saxon doesn’t seem so crazy…
Roger Moore
I bet money was involved.
SiubhanDuinne
@Maude: Maude, I was just looking for a live blog of this debate at the Grauniad site but can’t find anything except for wrap-up of last night’s debate. Do you have a link?
Suffern ACE
The only reason they won’t attack him is their fear of Utah-style politics and his executive thugs, white panther militants, and radical heterosexuals.
None of these guys will run in 2016. They should die of terminal shame before then.
marybdvm
Mitt got a pass because he is being crowned king. They’re pretty much just going after Obama now and maybe angling themselves for other postitions. Astonishing how they can lie and blame the Democratic party for all the woes in this country. Also amazing how anyone in the middle and lower income brackets can vote for any of them and against their better interests.
Maude
@SiubhanDuinne:
I just read the live blog when it’s on during the debate. My connection is too slow to stream and I tell you it is a gift.
Mino
@marybdvm: Selective amnesia, how does it work?
GregB
It’s great to hear Pat Buchanan will be spending more time with his Klan.
marybdvm
Ok, Newt is going after Mittens pretty strongly now.
Roger Moore
@Mino:
I seem to have forgotten how.
amk
Looks like finally the others are taking it to willard. A case of too little, too late.
marybdvm
The back and forth between Newt and MItt regarding Mitt’s ads was fun to watch. Newt pretty much called Newt a liar to his face. Mitt said he hadn’t seen the ads but if there is something wrong in them he would like his PAC to take the ads down. Then he started going against Newt saying that this fact in the ad was true and then next and the next fact was true. I found this the most entertaining exchange of the debate.
The debate just ended.
Samara Morgan
The republican debates are White People Problems.
ie, who should white people vote for.
Mike
@Mino: yes
marv
Well, I guess today is the day I accept it’s Romney, and now begins the ten month big uneasy for me because while I’m old and the worst that can happen can hardly matter all that much to me, I still have some hope for my country in the big long picture of things to look like it stood for something, and I can hardly imagine how history could justify a corporate non-person like Romney defeating Obama, who I don’t think at all is perfect but pretty damn remarkable take him all in all.
Pillsy
I thought the high point was Romney trying to sell us on the idea that an incumbent President doesn’t have the experience necessary to be President.
Kilkee
John Sununu is on MSNBC being a complete ass defending Mitt in the most offensive way possible. Can we make him the permanent face of the Mittster?
The Thin Black Duke
Usually I’m pretty disgusted by how much of our contemporary political discourse is dictated by The Cult of Personality.
Never mind a candidate’s history or values, what’s really important is whether you can have a beer with him or what type of pickup truck he pretends to drive. This, of course, has proven to be disastrous. Maybe Kansas will figure it out of of these decades.
Still, I think this collective hallucination of the clueless, low-information electorate is going to save us this time around. Mitt Romney is so incredibly charisma-challenged as a presidential candidate that it won’t matter that he’s a liar or that he cost tens of thousands of workers their jobs.
What’s gonna matter is that he creeps people out.
Maxwel
Check out Kamiya’s article on the “People’s Glorious Tea Party” in Salon.
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/08/the_anti_obama_cult/
RossInDetroit
(yawns, stretches, rubs eyes)
What? They’re still debating? I thought this was over last night.
Am I still asleep and having a….NIGHTMARE?
Brian R.
@Pillsy:
And the corollary, that of the Republicans running for the job of leading the federal government, the one who’s spent the least amount of time in government is the most qualified.
Oh, and now Mitt is insisting he knew running against Kennedy was a losing proposition, and so he ran as a moderate to make Kennedy turn to the right, or something something batshit crazy.
Brian R.
Rick Perry just said the problems in Washington predated Obama. He’s gone off the rails! Doesn’t he realize Republicans believe that everything is Obama’s fault?
Benjamin Franklin
@Southern Beale:
He’s reinvented himself numerous times, but the Irish Collaborator can’t help’ ‘boiling over’ because the venom must evacuate occasionally.
Samara Morgan
@The Thin Black Duke: Romney is actually a Dalek Auton.
Johnny B
I’ve long suspected that the Big Money Boyz of the GOP have let it be known to all the not-Romneys that future Super PAC money, campaign donations, and wingnut welfare will dry up for them if they take down Romney.
Honestly, folks, any of us, if we were given a few million dollars, could destroy Multiple Choice Mitt in the eyes of Republican voters. The fact that it hasn’t been done, even after Helmet Head Gingrich promised to do so, tells me that someone powerful with a lot of money has told them not to do so.
This primary always had the feel of a fixed game to me and the only suprising thing is that Romney still can’t seem to break 25%, though that will likely change in New Hampshire.
Unless he loses that state and South Carolina, he’ll be the premumptive nominee after the Florida primary. Then Team Obama will do to him what the not-Romney’s refused to do for themselves.
Brian R.
Shit, Huntsman looks like he’s woken up. Here’s hoping it passes — he’s the only one who could give Obama a tough fight.
Frankensteinbeck
@marybdvm:
Finally.
Brian R.
Rick Perry remembered his three agencies, and the audience applauds with pity, like they saw the fat kid finally cross the finish line.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brian R.:
Well, he meant that the problems predate Obama and Clinton and Carter caused them.
aimai
@gnomedad:
I don’t know why but “just freaked and needed to demonstrate some intelligence” struck me as the funniest line of all time. I burst out laughing. Maybe because I’ve long suspected that (some) of the Republican candidates used to feel this need occasionally and they probably have a “safe room” where their handlers can take them when they need to start shrieking things like
“Oh my fucking god I don’t know how anyone can believe this creationist claptrap”
“No, trees do not cause pollution”
“Fucking hell I don’t give a fuck who fucking fucks who in which orifice.”
Things like that.
aimai
GregB
@Kilkee:
Some local reporter once said that John Sununu looked like a human muffin.
My sister called him The Muffin Man from then on in.
Obama’s folks will point out that Sununu was driven out of his White House position for using tax payer jets to fly around the country for dentist appointments.
Samara Morgan
@Johnny B: and here’s a poem to that effect.
dmsilev
@Brian R.: No, standard Republican dogma also allows blaming Carter, LBJ, and FDR. For some reason, Clinton, JFK, and Truman are demoted to lesser evils.
handsmile
@Southern Beale: (#14)
You were the bearer of glad tidings this morning with your comment that the oldest living Confederate, Pat Buchanan, had at last been fired by MSNBC. But reading back through the links, declaring such a victory may have been premature.
These quotes from the CBS News report on the matter seem equivocal:
Buchanan, a former GOP presidential candidate and a paid MSNBC contributor, hasn’t been on the network since the publication of his book “Suicide of a Superpower” last October….”When Pat was on his book tour, because of the content of the book, I didn’t think it should be part of the national dialogue much less part of the dialogue on MSNBC,” said MSNBC President Phil Griffin….Griffin would not discuss the length of Buchanan’s contract with MSNBC or whether it would be renewed.
On another matter, it alarms me that certain lovely people who comment on this blog, SiubhanDiunne I’m looking at you in particular, would begin their Sunday morning by watching a GOP debate. Unless, of course, a pitcher of bloody marys or mimosas was involved….
ETA: The fourth paragraph above should have been block quoted as well. Curses, WP!
huckster
@Johnny B:
Then they will tie the anvil of the tea-party congress to him for the next 10 months
gnomedad
@aimai:
Attention SNL.
Omnes Omnibus
@aimai: This raises the intellectual question of whether the fact that (some of) the Republicans know better makes them worse. Is it better or worse morally to be a panderer or an idiot? The practical result is the same.
Linda Featheringill
@GregB:
Enough of these people! Yuck! I think I’ll look for something uplifting like a movie filled with death and damnation.
Mino
@Maxwel: Yes, the rightward march of the Democratic party has pushed Republicans into the loon corner, for all the good it does the rest of us folks who seldom have the option of a traditional Demoocratic solution to a problem. You know, one that actually works.
AxelFoley
@Mino:
LOL, you snuck me with that one, Mino. If I was drinking next to my monitor here at work…
dmsilev
Well, I didn’t watch this morning’s debate (according to the instructions on the bottle, taking more than one GOP debate every 24 hours has been shown to cause cancer in lab rats), but apparently Willard said that office-seekers should be independently wealthy. Real man of the people there.
Benjamin Franklin
Good read…
http://consortiumnews.com/2012/01/06/how-propaganda-targets-iran/
azlib
A history professor friend of mine says Romney may have a Perry problem. Romney is not very bright. Some of the stuff he has said in the debates seem to prove that point. Be interesting to see if the Obama campaign takes advantage of that in the debates.
I think the election will turn on how well the economy is doing in the Fall. If the jobs reports keep trending positive, it will be difficult for Romney to gain any traction.
Suffern ACE
@dmsilev: Kennedy and Clinton were popular, so they can’t run against them. They can run against Clinton’s wife. And of course Clinton is still useful in explaining that “It started under Clinton”, therefore making their failed policies seem Democratic inspired.
Frankensteinbeck
@Johnny B:
That assumes that the big money boys all favor the same candidate. They don’t. FOX has been fluffing everybody but Mitt and Paul. The Kochs don’t want an electable candidate, they want a crazy baboon like themselves, and proved it in the 2010s.
The big question in my mind is how much of the election money has already been spent in this squabble. Money has been flying to all the different candidates, and Romney spent 3.5 million in Iowa that will do him no good at all in the general. PACs and Citizens United makes it easier for rich people to spend on the election, but it didn’t give them more to spend. It also screwed the GOP itself as a central organizer of that money.
EDIT – @azlib:
Idiots can get elected, especially Republican idiots. Slow, verbally clumsy, uncharismatic robots do not have a good track record.
geg6
Romneybot had another malfunction this morning. Apparently, he thinks that only the wealthy should run for political office. Somehow, I don’t think the Independents will find that a compelling argument.
Samara Morgan
aannnd heres what the rest of the world thinks of this clusterfuck.
Race politics in the Hawkeye and Granite states.
Davis X. Machina
2010 proved you can elect a crazy baboon, perhaps not all the time (Delaware, Nevada) but a lot of the time (Utah, e.g.).
If you can shape the composition of who goes — and more importantly who doesn’t go — to the polls, de facto by advertizing, not so much to boost your candidate, as to depress turnout altogether, de jure by restricting the franchise, it may turn out that it’s only been true so far that presidential-year elections produce less extreme results than mid-terms.
If you get both Houses, the amount of additional mischief you can do domestically with the White House is nice, but not critical.
Joel
The money guys in the party say it’s so, and so it’s so.
For the record, Romney is now trading at 97.5 as republican nominee on Intrade. I think there’s inside knowledge. I’m surprised at how quickly he became the “absolutely certain” nominee. Before the Iowa caucuses, he was trading at ~56.
Suffern ACE
@geg6: That argument does work well with a certain set of independents who like that Citizen’s Elect stuff and democrats who hated Clinton for his white trash roots. Fortunately, they all write for newspapers and magazines and can be relied on to produce fifty votes in Manhattan. They’d prefer to vote for the wealthy Democrat, but since they don’t have one running at the moment, they’ll vote for Mitt.
brettvk
@The Thin Black Duke: I really hope your analysis is correct; I lost a lot of tooth enamel over the Shrub beer line. I’m waiting, with fascination and not a little dread, to see if the corporate media can give Mitt a makeover that conceals his weirdness. I can’t decide if it’s sourced in a mild autism or massive entitlement.
dmsilev
@geg6: The Romneytronic 3000’s statement:
So, only people well-off enough that they don’t have to worry about several years worth of living expenses and old enough to have not-young kids should run for office.
The first half is an appalling statement of rich guys privilege, and amusingly enough the last three Presidents all violated the second half.
Samara Morgan
@Benjamin Franklin: this was emminently predictable. when the teatards failed to crash the economy with the debt ceiling war, their next ToM move is Real War…….with Iran.
huckster
i think it’s as simple as: they know that their candidates suck, but Romney at least has the air of organization and inevitability about him. OTOH if he doesn’t break 40% in New Hampshire, all hell’s gonna break loose in South Carolina.
Joel
Scatch that: the 97.5 is Romney’s New Hampshire odds.
Romney is still at >80% for president, however.
Samara Morgan
@huckster: 41.8 prediction.
but then….Nate is a handicapper too.
ChrisNYC
Santorum is the runaway winner of most repulsive.
Samara Morgan
ToM==Theory of Moves
Davis X. Machina
Romneys are trading at 0.83 this morning on the IEM.
General election voteshare, the last prices were 52.5 D, 49.8 R.
And both Houses R at 0.61. This has never traded below 0.50
The Thin Black Duke
By the way, I wanted to thank everybody for watching the GOP debates so I didn’t have to. Life is precious but temporary, and there’s no time for bullshit.
Anyway, during this horrendous reality TV show, did you folks hear Peggy Lee singing on the soundtrack Is That All There Is?
And has Obama stopped smiling yet?
Samara Morgan
@ChrisNYC: do you know what is amazing?
my young cousins and younger acquaintances actually know who Santorum is.
They universally loathe himbecause of his homophobe position.
Its like Santorum has a biohazard warning for teh youth vote.
SiubhanDuinne
@handsmile:
I once read somewhere that it was possible to play drinking games with coffee. Like Rick in Casablanca I was misinformed.
Benjamin Franklin
@Samara Morgan:
Acronyms, acronyms, my horse for an acronym…
Samara Morgan
@The Thin Black Duke: i like the townhall/hotair twitter stream for debates.
its like an exquisite symphony of despair.
Raven
Hahaha’ fucking Mary Matlin in her worst droning voice “there will be passion”. How does Carville do it?
Mino
@Davis X. Machina: That is rather astounding, considering the popularity of The House.
Do they think gerrymandering and voter ID laws will save them from their richly deserved come-uppance?
Frankensteinbeck
@Davis X. Machina:
On the contrary. 2010 proved that you can elect crazy baboons to the House because they’re local, gerrymandered elections. The broader the election, the harder it is to elect a crazy person. Tea Party candidates died flaming deaths in the Senate races. Rand Paul made it by renouncing the Tea Party the morning after he won the primary, and he still won a tight race in what should have been a gimme election (I mean, KENTUCKY!)
His renunciation was pretty funny. His acceptance speech the night of the nomination decision was all about how he wouldn’t abandon the hardcore and go moderate. The next morning he was talking about what a moderate he was.
Mino
@Raven: My keyboard!!!!!!!!!!
ChrisNYC
@Samara Morgan: They’re all horrible of course but at least the others have some hint of at least one human quality. Perry with his sort of “bad student” embarrassment. Gingrich with his ability to get off a clever one liner every now and then. Santorum ugh it’s all that lip curled nastiness and puffing himself up — “I’m a leader I’m a leader!” No, you’re a twerp, Rick.
Benjamin Franklin
@Raven:
….while thinking of anyone else.
Mino
@Raven: Honestly, what do they eat in that house? They both look like they’ve been munching radioactive nuleotides.
dogwood
@dmsilev:
This is a blatant personal jab at the President. Mitt really is a lowlife asshole. The fact that he’s so obvious and clumsy in these attacks is what makes him laughable. I don’t think the “Obama is a bad father” approach is a winner, but what do I know.
Frankensteinbeck
Oh, and there’s been a lot of fuss about why the others haven’t been attacking Mitt much. I posit that they don’t have to, and have no reason to. They’re jockeying to be the Not Romney. As long as the Not Romney vote remains split, none of them are going to beat him. If they can stomp the others and be the One, True Not Romney, they’ve got a chance of winning. So far, it’s not working. Those cats really do not want to be herded.
Benjamin Franklin
EJ Dionne verbalizes my paranoid/schizophrenic fear….
http://themoderatevoice.com/134085/hawk-in-a-clown-car-field/
But I know there’s no such thing as an airtight guarantee, and that’s why those welcoming the Santorum surge for Machiavellian reasons should be careful what they wish for.
The Thin Black Duke
@SiubhanDuinne:
Kudos for mentioning one of the Greatest Movies Ever Made.
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven: Yeah, last night she said with a straight face that Newt was very very good during the ABC debate.
Raven
@Mino: Crawfish Etouffee!
SiubhanDuinne
@The Thin Black Duke:
Thanks. It is indeed.
Raven
@SiubhanDuinne:
Wanna piss me off?
It wasn’t even his fucking father. I’ve had step-parents on both side and neither was ever my mother or father.
The Thin Black Duke
@Benjamin Franklin:
Really?
I’m trying to imagine that whitebread lump of entitlement in a sleeveless sweater vest debating Obama.
No, it’d never happen; the Goddess wouldn’t be that generous.
handsmile
@SiubhanDuinne: (#103)
Well, swilling that much coffee must have necessitated many trips to the ladies’, so perhaps you missed the worst parts. And now you’re properly wired for the rest of the day. Which I hope will be more rewarding (how could it not be after that?)
Brachiator
@azlib:
Americans don’t necessarily care whether their presidents are smart. Many take comfort in the idea that their leader is as dumb as they are. This is in part how we ended up with Dubya, and why many were so fond of Sarah Palin.
ChrisNYC
@Frankensteinbeck: I don’t think the other candidates WANT there to be one not Romney.
I mean, if that were to happen, that one not Romney would have to (1) actually run (lotta work and lotta chance for huge humiliation en route considering what terrible candidates they are); and (2) be left holding the bag for a historic GOP defeat. Perry, Santorum, Gingrich — they know Obama would destroy them in a landslide. Not good for future wingnut welfare prospects.
Valdivia
@dogwood: didn’t Romney run in 94 when his kids were little?
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
True, but they want a dumb *friendly and charismatic* president. Romney really has nothing going for him.
Benjamin Franklin
@Brachiator:
And they don’t like it when you’re mean and nasty to your opponent, but I think Obama has that danger covered.
ChrisNYC
God what an unbelievable twerp Santorum is! Wrote a book in response to First Lady Hillary’s. Twerp twerp twerp.
Amir Khalid
Why is Noot still addressed as “Speaker Gingrich”, Mr Frothy as “Senator Santorum”, Mitt as “Governor Romney”? Noot resigned in disgrace in 1999, Mr Frothy lost his Senate seat in 2006, Mitt didn’t even dare seek reelection in 2006. Does media etiquette in America allow them to keep the title to a public office long after they have left it?
me
@Benjamin Franklin: Well, if Santorum is the next president, fuck it, I’m converting to nihilism.
Benjamin Franklin
@The Thin Black Duke:
I’m just obsessing. But Fate is a fickle beatch…
Donut
Sorry if someone has already made this point, but the more opportunities the Not-Romneys all pass on in terms of attacking Mittens, the more it becomes obvious that none of them except Mittens truly, really have the proverbial fire in the belly it takes to go after the job this year. The Not-Romneys are simply in it to raise their profiles and/or feed on the wingnut gravy train.
The biggest problemsfor Mittens now probably have to be that any states that are not winner-take-all contests leave him exposed to a brokered convention and/or a third-party conservative making a go at it. Loving this all, though, as it becomes harder and harder all the time for Romney to project strength in his position. All the better for the incumbent, IMO.
Nom de Plume
All I know is, yesterday I checked Google News, as is my daily routine, and the top story was “Three Things to Look for in the Republican Debate” for approximately the 9013457912384579th time in the last few months. They may as well just make it the permanent top story.
I’m honestly not understanding the GOP strategy with a debate every 5 seconds. We see (considerably) less of Obama these days than we do the GOP candidates. Is it their goal to have America sick of the sight of them before the campaign even begins in earnest?
The Dangerman
It was beyond apparent that there were Orders From On High to not touch Mitt last night. It’s going to be BORING between now and the conventions when we’ll find out if:
1) There’s a floor fight in Tampa trying to derail Mitt (incredibly unlikely)
2) Paul wants to run 3rd Party (unlikely, but THAT would be fun)
3) What Americans Select does (this smells to me like a ratfucking operation, although, full disclosure, I’m not sure what ratfucking really smells like)
Benjamin Franklin
@me:
Anarchism is more positive. Nihilism is a flawed philosophy which basically denies Truth, and if Truth does not exist, then the notion that truth does not exist, is True.
Mino
@Raven: Well, that probably explains it. Little known fact–most US crayfish is imported from China.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Frankensteinbeck:
I give the GOP two more Democratic administrations before they draft Kurt Warner into service. Football is the great American pasttime and the guy has a compelling life story. Like something out of a B movie, if you will.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
OT: But DK started with a couple of diaries supporting Ron Paul’s ideas, a la Greenwald, but the replies to those diaries have been interesting. There are two today criticizing Greenwald’s support.
Mino
@Amir Khalid: Well, they all think they are the nobility.
Davis X. Machina
@Amir Khalid: Yes. Ask Ambassador Alan Keyes.
handsmile
@Brachiator: (#124)
Violet
@Raven:
Newt Gingrich’s step-father adopted him, making him Newt’s father. Although he wasn’t his biological father, he was his father according to the courts.
The Thin Black Duke
@Benjamin Franklin:
Fair enough, but Karma Is A Harsh Mistress, and no matter how many years and tens of millions of dollars that Romney invested in his doomed quixotic journey for the White House, people still don’t like him. You know, sometimes this country is luckier than it deserves to be.
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
So, the question remains why Romney is supposedly Mr Inevitable. Can he sell himself as the fixit man for the ailing economy?
What I find baffling and also highly amusing is that the GOP keeps trying to paint Obama as aloof, out of touch with Real American White People ™, aristocratic and elitist. And so they are going to turn to … Mitt Romney as the alternative.
This makes me laugh every time I think about it. It’s also one of the many reasons I don’t care whether the fix is supposedly in for Mittens.
Even if Romney is Mr Inevitable, the GOP is not to be underestimated. They have got to be looking for a VP pick who will make up for Mitt’s deficiencies. And it will be hilarious how they try to reinvent Mitt as the Common Man. Romney will no doubt screw it up, and it will be painful to watch.
Jim C.
“None of these guys has a snowball’s chance in hell of getting the VP spot”
All of these people felt that they had a chance in hell of being PRESIDENT. In other words, they are not the most self-aware of individuals in the world.
They may very well believe that they have a shot at the VP slot. Given Romney’s, shall we say, “generous” relationship with “truth”, he may well have hinted to (or outright promised) several of them that they would be his VP choice (or at least on his short list) if they left him alone.
Joey Maloney
@Benjamin Franklin:
“Santorum” and “airtight” in the same sentence…boy, I’m glad it’s already cocktail hour in my timezone.
Davis X. Machina
@The Thin Black Duke: We elected Nixon, twice. It took some doing to make him likeable, or to be precise, make him just likeable enough for the spite vote to close the remaining gap.
Brian R.
@Amir Khalid:
In all cases. You keep the honorific long after leaving the office.
jurassicpork
Did anyone else catch the calliope-accompanies Parade o’ Penises in New Hampshire last night? Well, I did so you wouldn’t have to.
noodler
Did anyone notice in this morning’s debate, in the exchange about super pacs between mitt and newt, where Mitt said: “I have not seen those ads, as you know it’s against the law to direct super pacs, and then goes on to say, “Now let me tell you about the ads I’ve seen” This whole super pac thing is a mess.
Football open thread coming up soon, I hope, Go Giants! But I’ve got CYO basketball to attend during game time
Shawn in ShowMe
@Davis X. Machina:
To quote every sports broadcaster in existence, it’s all about matchups. Our guy is waaaaay more likable. Now if Romneybot was running against Hillary, then we might have a problem.
gelfling545
@azlib: The problem of debates is that it is very difficult to debate a stupid or an ignorant person. If someone just keeps repeating their “point” over and over where do you go? It can be very difficult not to give way to showing frustration and we know that that ends badly. In fact showing up your opponent’s idiocy can make the intelligent party seem “mean” and promote some sympathy for the loser along the lines of how badly that bully treated that poor man or even hey, he’s just as dumb as me – must be an ok guy. Actually I suspect there will be very little in the way of actual debates, just the question-answer with talking point-no rebuttal type.
Brachiator
@Davis X. Machina:
I am not sure that Nixon was ever really likeable. The Checkers speech, way back when, at least made him appear human.
It’s funny. I don’t know whether someone like Nixon could succeed in the modern GOP, especially one which so admires a genial idiot like Reagan.
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven: Yes, I caught that too. And I also had step-parents both sides and agree with you. Lizard man is grotesque and offensive in every possible way.
SiubhanDuinne
@Joey Maloney:
This morning, Santorum himself used the phrase “bottom-up.” Twice.
YoohooCthulhu
@Amir Khalid:
There’s a weird style convention where those offices (along with President, but not Congressman) can retain their title for the rest of their lives. I think it’s stupid.
SiubhanDuinne
@handsmile: Once I scraped myself off the ceiling I was fine. Nice buzz-on for the rest of the day.
Jay C
@Brachiator:
Ummm, dude? You know you’ve answered your own question right there….??
JGabriel
@Samara Morgan:
I got 99 problems, but a ‘Puke ain’t one.
.
The Thin Black Duke
@Brachiator:
These days, Trick Dick would be seen by the GOP as a crazed, molotov cocktail-tossing “liberal” who was pretending to be a Republican.
Thing is, as Hunter Thompson found out, if you got Nixon talking about football, he was a regular guy. Romney would be the cyborg spewing out meaningless statistics.
Davis X. Machina
@Shawn in ShowMe: Oh, dear. The official line is that if we had just nominated Hillary, none of this would even be necessary… our first woman president, now re-elected by acclamation.
But since that didn’t happen, we have no choice but Ron Paul.
dogwood
The problem for Mittens isn’t just that he is unlikeable. People here are right; Nixon was unlikeable as well. The problem for Mitt is that he has no compelling personal narrative to sell. Like it or not narrative is important in politics. We all like a good story. Mitt has no story to tell about himself or America for that matter.
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne:
I think adoptive parents might disagree with both your and Raven’s characterization of his father as merely his step-father. Newt’s father adopted Newt after marrying Newt’s mother when Newt was around three years old. Newt took his adoptive father’s last name and grew up partly on military bases as they moved with his dad’s job.
Pillsy
@Benjamin Franklin:
I’m not convinced that Santorum is less electable than Romney. He’s a revolting human being, but I think a revolting human being is a better bet than a malfunctioning douche robot like Romney.
Benjamin Franklin
@The Thin Black Duke:
“Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail”
Best, no bull-shit commentary on the process of politics.
Benjamin Franklin
@Pillsy:
Again, I’m trying not to let my paranoia get the best of me, but I can put nothing past the Goated Old Party.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Davis X. Machina: Consider who Nixon went up against.
JGabriel
@Joel:
No, it’s not inside knowledge, it’s just Nate Silver. His projections give Mitt a 20% lead in NH and a 98% chance to win, and show Mitt with a 61% chance to win SC (with a 10% lead).
The SC GOP primary winner has gone on to be the Republican nominee in every election since 1980.
Thus the odds at Intrade.
.
WaterGirl
@bemused: What he did, I think, is put it in print. So there’s no way MSNBC can claim not to know how racist he is, etc.
Mino
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: You have a probem with Hubert Humphrey? Christ, I wish we had dozens of them in Congress.
bemused
@WaterGirl:
I suppose the difference is that this latest bilge from Buchanan is current. His previous, numerous racist, bigoted Hitler defending a writings must not count in their eyes.
dogwood
@WaterGirl:
I don’t know. That may be an excuse, but Uncle Pat writes racist columns all the time. My guess is they looked at the demographics of their audience and realized Buchanan wasn’t providing much value to the network.
Shawn in ShowMe
@dogwood:
What was Dumbya’s compelling personal narrative?
kay
@Davis X. Machina:
Oh, I think what you’re seeing is a long, dishonest walk-back, Davis.
From your link:
We’ve gone from “Paul opposes military aggression and the war on drugs” to “Paul gives the appearance of opposing military aggression and the war on drugs”.
LOTTA “clarifying” going on.
These two things are now “irrelevant”:
WaterGirl
@dogwood: It’s always about the money, isn’t it?
xian
@scav: attack ads don’t help Mitt, they destroy his opponents, or at least discourage their supporters from voting.
dogwood
@Shawn in ShowMe:
W didn’t have much of a personal narrative, but fortunately for him neither did Gore or Kerry. Kerry tried the war hero stuff, and the Swiftboat shit brought that into question. I’m not saying personal narrative is everything, but Mitt has absolutely none whatsoever. And even if W’s life story wasn’t particularly compelling, he didn’t seem like he was completely hiding who he was or where he came from. W could at least tell a few stories. Mitt always leaves you with the impression he’s hiding something. The refusal to release his taxes will play into this. I think Mitt’s secretiveness comes from the fact that outside of his professional life, his personal life is very tied into the Mormon Church, and that’s a subject he feels he can’t discuss.
nastybrutishntall
Money gets what it wants. All the other clowns know what time it is and don’t want to get sent to the back of the line by pissing off the GoOP Nazi. They want to be piggy #2 at the trough when the power’s ladled out.
Bill Arnold
@Samara Morgan:
They’re not the POTUS, so this will be hard to pull off. Manipulating the Israelis into an air assault on Iran is one avenue, but the Israelis aren’t easily manipulated.
(I’m not cynical enough to believe that the Israelis (the right) might start a war and a second great depression/recession, primarily as a means of mucking in American electoral politics.)
So what are you seeing here as the possibilities?
Brachiator
@The Thin Black Duke:
I vaguely recall some anecdote about Nixon watching the Washington Redskins and actually trying to call the team on the phone to give them a play. Even when he tried to be a regular guy, he was still weird.
On the other hand, have the Romneybot’s handlers even finished compiling the “I love football. Really.” sub routine?
dogwood
@WaterGirl:
Pretty much.
kay
Let’s just let the voters have a say! In every state.
A long, bloody primary is very democratic.
Rick Perry wants to invade Iraq again, and Mitt Romney denies seeing his PAC ads, but then rattles off the content of each ad like he’s reading off a list.
I want to hear more conservative ideas. Did we fully explore banning contraception? I don’t think so.
dogwood
@Brachiator:
I remember that story as well. Hard to source it because so much has been written about Nixon, and I’m too lazy to find it.
Nellcote
@Brian R.:
At what point will the honorific be constantly used for Prez Obama while he’s IN office?
Nutella
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Mitt’s personal narrative: “It’s my turn, dammit!” Not very compelling for the general voting population.
Although from this morning’s debate he seems to be trying to change that to “I’ve got plenty of time and money so why the hell not run?”
Davis X. Machina
@kay: It’s a moon-walk-back. Your feet move, but you don’t go anywhere.
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet: Sorry, not sure I realized there had been an adoption. If that’s the case, of course you are correct and I apologize. That wasn’t the situation in my case, and I never thought of my father’s second wife or my mother’s second husband as my own parents by any stretch.
Rita R.
@kay:
I thought Paul trying to get around the racist newsletters issue last night by decrying how racist the drug war is and throwing in MLK and Rosa Parks for good measure was transparently phony and obviously cooked up as a way to answer the repeated questions about the newsletters. And it was a little jarring, because his hallmark is saying exactly what he believes, no matter how much it may challenge Republican orthodoxy (and be crazy loony). Not to say the drug war isn’t racist. It is. But suggesting that that is why he wants to legalize drugs is laughable.
kay
@Davis X. Machina:
That’s irrelevant. It’s the appearance of a walk-back :)
Rita R.
@Nellcote:
Yes! It’s a pet peeve of mine how these Republican candidates (and GOP officeholders and pundits) so often call the president “Obama” or “Barack Obama” instead of “President Obama.” I watched every debate in 2008, and there was no similar regular throwing around of “Bush” or “George W. Bush” instead of “President Bush.” All part and parcel of their lack of respect for the office of president as long as the Kenyan socialst usurper holds it.
g
@dogwood: W’s personal story, for what little it’s worth, was the redemption tale – he was a callow, worthless drunk who suddenly found God and redemption. Classic American tale – sure to tug heartstrings and excuse the fact that he was a narcissistic little prick with Daddy issues.
kay
@Rita R.:
I didn’t read the newsletters. His work in Congress (such as it is) is much more detailed, and enlightening.
It’s almost a shame the newsletters stole the show, because he could have gotten some very difficult questions. It’s not too late. Now that he’s opened the door, I’d love to hear his opinion on MLK and the Voting Rights Act.
dogwood
@g:
Yeah, I think you’re right. I said it here the other day, and I still stand by it. You can’t hope to understand Romney if you don’t understand a little something about Mormonism, and not just the theology of it, but the intense tribal and cultural role it plays in the lives of its members. Ironically, the thing that Mitt doesn’t want to talk about (his Church) is actually the most interesting thing about him. While the Church disavows polygamy and excommunicates polygamists, it ironically bestows a great deal of power on those men who can trace their roots back to the earliest of the pioneer polygamist. Romney has an impeccable Mormon pedigree. It’s gotta be a bitch when the thing you are most proud of and that most defines you is something you can’t talk about.
Cacti
@dogwood:
And on top of that, as part of the Mormon temple ritual, the participants all take multiple oaths to never discuss the particulars of the temple ritual with outsiders.
Part of the reason why the Mormon church gets rapped as a cult.
Another Halocene Human
Shorter Last Nights Debate: Ron Paul called Newt a chicken hawk and Ol’ Anger Jowls got angry.
Also, Santorum experienced some oral leakage. Logorrhea is a nasty disease.
Ruckus
@Pillsy:
Should that be douchebot? Cause it seems to fit.
Kilkee
@dmsilev: And how young were Romney’s kids when he was Governor? And ran for the Senate?
Anne Laurie
@GregB:
Sununu has a face like a prolapsed rectum. Unshapely rolls of angry, sweating flesh never meant for daylight, topped with a nasty little red rosebud oozing filth.
priscianusjr
@Brian R.:
xian
@Donut: i heard the republican format is not quite as open as the democratic one – that is, proportional primaries are apportioned that way only when no single candidate has a majority.
Mnemosyne
@Raven:
@SiubhanDuinne:
It really depends on the family circumstances. My mother died when I was seven years old and my stepmother has been my mother for over 30 years. If the biological parent is dead or so dysfunctional that they’re out of the picture entirely, a stepparent can step into that void as far as the kid is concerned.